Glocks never fail

[jeffhughes]

Tulsa Police Dept recently released a video of an officer involved shooting. It would be awesome if someone here with more internet foo than me could go to their FB page and share it here.

Great work by the cops. At 7:15 or so the video shows an officer clearing a failure with his G17.

Be interesting to know more about that. A TPD Sgt posted today that they are still looking into the Glock issue.

[TheNewbie]

Tulsa Police Dept recently released a video of an officer involved shooting. It would be awesome if someone here with more internet foo than me could go to their FB page and share it here.

Great work by the cops. At 7:15 or so the video shows an officer clearing a failure with his G17.

Be interesting to know more about that. A TPD Sgt posted today that they are still looking into the Glock issue.


Are you talking about the most recent shooting, where the officer is clearing the suspect’s weapon post shooting?

[HopetonBrown]

Who said Glocks never fail?

Shooter

Ammunition

Maintenance

Malfunction

It's really easy to limpwrist a pistol if you don't shoot very much.

[L-2]

https://www.facebook.com/tulsapolice/

I didn't have enough info (date, situation, story title, brief synopsis) to locate whatever video story Post_1 is referring. The FB website for Tulsa P.D. just has too many story links.

[P30]

(deleted by myself, linked a video without Glock malfunction)

[HCM]

Tulsa Police Dept recently released a video of an officer involved shooting. It would be awesome if someone here with more internet foo than me could go to their FB page and share it here.

Great work by the cops. At 7:15 or so the video shows an officer clearing a failure with his G17.

Be interesting to know more about that. A TPD Sgt posted today that they are still looking into the Glock issue.

Worthless without a link to the video or even a news article.

Keep in mind the number one cause of LEO weapon malfunctions is.... operator error.

[LittleLebowski]

Prolly gunked up from lack of maintenance. Anyway, people are pretty realistic about Glocks here and not jingoistic about brands.

[HCM]

Wow, it’s like I’m clairvoyant.

Shooting here:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156762179598663&id=50187668662

Office in the middle (McRees) gets off several shots and his slide lock to the rear. when he notices it he racks the slide overhand putting the gun back into battery and chambering another round without any other corrective action.

TLDR version, the officers grip caused the slide release lever to engage prematurely- I.e. operator error. I’ve seen this happen several times, usually with people running extended slide release levers, - operator error.

[HCM]

Prolly gunked up from lack of maintenance. Anyway, people are pretty realistic about Glocks here and not jingoistic about brands.

IME Glocks are surprisingly tolerant of neglect, Cheeto crumbs etc. this one was an operator induced malfunction.

Says the guy what have broken every brand of duty gun issued to him including an HK.

[Totem Polar]

I‘ve had 3 Glocks barf on me pretty seriously, including an otherwise reliable gen3 17 in a Matt Graham class. I’ve also been involved in locking up (and sending back to the factory) a GP-100, a Vaquero Sheriff’s model SA and 3 j-frames; over about a 30-year period. And that’s just the guns with a reputation for being reliable. :)

[jeffhughes]

Wow, it’s like I’m clairvoyant.

Shooting here:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156762179598663&id=50187668662

Office in the middle (McRees) gets off several shots and his slide lock to the rear. when he notices it he racks the slide overhand putting the gun back into battery and chambering another round without any other corrective action.

TLDR version, the officers grip caused the slide release lever to engage prematurely- I.e. operator error. I’ve seen this happen several times, usually with people running extended slide release levers, - operator error.

Thanks. Makes sense.

Sorry to those who I offended.

[HCM]

Thanks. Makes sense.

Sorry to those who I offended.

High grip gives better control but there’s no free lunch.

More commonly it causes failure to lock back. It’s common enough that Kagwerks is making a killing on their modified high grip slide release.

https://kagwerks.com/collections/slide-release

[Willard]

High grip gives better control but there’s no free lunch.

More commonly it causes failure to lock back. It’s common enough that Kagwerks is making a killing on their modified high grip slide release.

https://kagwerks.com/collections/slide-release

Factory extended is a huge fail for me. I installed, and after multiple episodes of premature lockback first range outing, quickly removed. This looks like a neat option for those who don't slingshot/dig the small factory release. Thanks for posting.

[HCM]

Thanks. Makes sense.

Sorry to those who I offended.

High grip gives better control but there’s no free lunch.

More commonly it causes failure to lock back. It’s common enough that Kagwerks is making a killing on their modified high grip slide release.

https://kagwerks.com/collections/slide-release

Glocks are common enough that they have been involved in almost every type of negative outcome. The Gen 2/3 .40 calibers for example had real issues. That said, the Gen 4 40s and Gen 5 9mm
S really are better mousetraps.

[HCM]

Factory extended is a huge fail for me. I installed and quickly removed after multiple episodes of premature lockback first range outing following install. This looks like a neat option for those who don't slingshot/dig the small factory release.

Between high grip and XXL hands the factor extended release is a no go for me too.

[spinmove_]

Glocks never fail? That’s cute.

45363

[Obelisk]

Wait! I was just convinced to buy more Glocks on here. I was already looking for a early 2000’s white in color Chevy Silverado with Silver star headlights that you can’t tell if the high beams are on, a Glock sticker for the back window, dog box, and Copenhagen spit stained doors. Don’t ya’ll try to mess me up with this thread!

[Mike C]

spinmove_ just curious of round count if you kept track. Thanks.

[Duelist]

Wait! I was just convinced to buy more Glocks on here. I was already looking for a early 2000’s white in color Chevy Silverado with Silver star headlights that you can’t tell if the high beams are on, a Glock sticker for the back window, dog box, and Copenhagen spit stained doors. Don’t ya’ll try to mess me up with this thread!

My G26.3, unknown round count prior to me buying it used, had one shooter-caused stoppage and 1 light strike in a 2000 round test. It has had exactly one thing break after about 2500 rounds of my use: the plastic nose of the RSA had a chunk break off. Gun still worked. I replaced it with an $18 new factory RSA, and carried on. Several hundred rounds later, no issues.

G42 #1: zero malfunctions in several hundred rounds.
G42 #2: Bought used. A weak, probably original RSA caused a few FTF all the way. Replaced the RSA, no more malfs.
G19x: new gun. 3 light strikes on Wolf at 1600 rounds into a 2000 round test during a Gabe White class. Stopped shooting Wolf, no more light strikes.

They aren’t perfect, but... they work, and I trust them to do so for at least the amount of rounds I carry on my person, and probably a whole lot more.

[Obelisk]

My G26.3, unknown round count prior to me buying it used, had one shooter-caused stoppage and 1 light strike in a 2000 round test. It has had exactly one thing break after about 2500 rounds of my use: the plastic nose of the RSA had a chunk break off. Gun still worked. I replaced it with an $18 new factory RSA, and carried on. Several hundred rounds later, no issues.

G42 #1: zero malfunctions in several hundred rounds.
G42 #2: Bought used. A weak, probably original RSA caused a few FTF all the way. Replaced the RSA, no more malfs.
G19x: new gun. 3 light strikes on Wolf at 1600 rounds into a 2000 round test during a Gabe White class. Stopped shooting Wolf, no more light strikes.

They aren’t perfect, but... they work, and I trust them to do so for at least the amount of rounds I carry on my person, and probably a whole lot more.

My first gun I bought was a g21 in 92’. Still have it. The gun I was first given at my dept was an old beat to hell 17 gen 2. It never let me down, but some of the other officer’s guns were having issues. Zero maintenance. Our gen 4s have been great reliability wise.

[spinmove_]

spinmove_ just curious of round count if you kept track. Thanks.

It was a police trade-in G17.2. I have no idea the round count prior to when I got it. At that time, I probably had just over a case of Lawman through it. I sent it back to Glock, they fixed it up with their complimentary once over for free and shipped it back to me.

[GJM]

In my experience, Glocks don’t break much. If they do, I can generally fix them, and if not, I have had great CS from Glock. In the past month, I sent them a G4 19 MOS slide with a screw stripped and broken off by my attempts to remove it. They fixed it right up for me without charge.

I am not mechanically inclined, and there is no other pistol that I can work on or get parts for as easily as a Glock.

[Trukinjp13]

I feel like every time this shit comes up we need a chart of issued Glocks/Civvie Glocks vs every other manufacturer. As in numbers sold....I would love to see reported failures of other brands that could come close to the number of Glocks out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jeffhughes]

I feel like every time this shit comes up we need a chart of issued Glocks/Civvie Glocks vs every other manufacturer. As in numbers sold....I would love to see reported failures of other brands that could come close to the number of Glocks out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m in Tulsa(local to the incident), and I’ve run several Glocks to 2500+ round count(I should be better, I know).

I know any gun can fail. TPD is pretty squared away from what I understand, but there are lots of officers...

What really prompted the OP is that a TPD supervisor stated on FB today that they are still looking for the cause of failure.

[HCM]

Glocks never fail? That’s cute.

45363

If that happened on a 17 it is attributable to failure to change the recoild spring. Once again operator error.

[HCM]

I’m in Tulsa(local to the incident), and I’ve run several Glocks to 2500+ round count(I should be better, I know).

I know any gun can fail. TPD is pretty squared away from what I understand, but there are lots of officers...

What really prompted the OP is that a TPD supervisor stated on FB today that they are still looking for the cause of failure.

They will do a though armorer inspection and live fire test but I suspect they won't find anything amiss mechanically.

[jeffhughes]

They will do a though armorer inspection and live fire test but I suspect they won't find anything amiss mechanically.

I’m sure they’ve done that and you are correct. I suspect the SGT I referred to will be pointed to this thread...

[jeffhughes]

HCM, thanks again for posting the link...

[awp_101]

Glocks never fail

https://youtu.be/UELWnj-SSxc

[Trooper224]

If nothing else, it speaks to the reliability of modern service pistols that *a* possible malfunction is even worthy of discussion.

[Caballoflaco]

If nothing else, it speaks to the reliability of modern service pistols that *a* possible malfunction is even worthy of discussion.

It’s out of my lane since I’m not the police, but I thought it was more interesting that he chose to get on the radio before he cleared the malfunction.

[kwb377]

It’s out of my lane since I’m not the police, but I thought it was more interesting that he chose to get on the radio before he cleared the malfunction.

I noticed the same thing...not sure if it was a vapor-lock, or presence of mind to think, "Well...they're smokin' that ham, guess I'll call it in.".

[spinmove_]

If that happened on a 17 it is attributable to failure to change the recoild spring. Once again operator error.

Given that it was a police trade-in, I’m not entirely shocked that it happened. I haven’t shot it enough to have to swap the recoil spring yet (I literally put a fresh recoil spring in when I got it and then didn’t put 5,000 rounds through it before this failure), but I plan on rectifying that this year as I’m planning on just sticking with G17s for USPSA Production.

[Cory]

A brand loyalist.
Can Glocks Malfunction?
It's impossible.

[blues]

A brand loyalist.
Can Glocks Malfunction?
It's impossible.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DistantInferiorBluejay-small.gif

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I think I've seen every semi malfunction that I've run across in class. I'll give you my Glock one. For my first G19, the tip of the firing pin somehow broke a bit off, leaving it like a right triangular spike. So it hit the primer and impaled it like a harpoon. Of course the round didn't eject and leaving the gun unusable. Had springs break also about 10 K out.

My best empty jam was when the empty some how rotated 180 deg, ended back in the gun with the slide slamming shut on it, jamming the thin walls into the mechanism. Can't tap, rack that one.

My first wave Glock 42, won't shoot one round without a jam. I couldn't unjam it. Karl Rehn did with instructor magic. Later I took it to indoor range. Total disaster. It's best trick was to fire out of battery with flames and smoke coming out of the ejector port. Scared me a bit. Back to the factory and it works now.

Taking a class, and a guy was shooting a Beretta 92. The safety lever falls out into the crap on the ground. Everything fails, including me on my first college calculus test.

[JSGlock34]

45376

[HCM]

Given that it was a police trade-in, I’m not entirely shocked that it happened. I haven’t shot it enough to have to swap the recoil spring yet (I literally put a fresh recoil spring in when I got it and then didn’t put 5,000 rounds through it before this failure), but I plan on rectifying that this year as I’m planning on just sticking with G17s for USPSA Production.

I try to swap all springs on used Glocks for just this reason. I’ve seen the spring box/nose break off a SIG 229 lfeom the same cause.

I would also swap the slide lock and trigger springs. I have also seen a GOV G19 send it’s slide down range after the slide lock spring broke.

[Cypher]

This is probably a dumb question but is a gun (any brand) more likely to malfunction as it heats up?

[call_me_ski]

This is probably a dumb question but is a gun (any brand) more likely to malfunction as it heats up?

Depends upon what you mean by heat up. With a rate of fire high enough any gun will fail. So in the strictest sense the answer to your question is yes.

[Nick B]

Yeah they do fail. At just over 8k rounds the tip of the striker broke off on my G17 gen4. Left me with a paperweight.
I bought the gun new and only fired Federal and Winchester ammo. No dry fire .

[Trooper224]

Taking a class, and a guy was shooting a Beretta 92. The safety lever falls out into the crap on the ground. Everything fails, including me on my first college calculus test.

Now you're just talking shit. We know such is impossible. :)

[call_me_ski]

FWIW, I worked at a rental range and saw a lot of Glocks that failed beyond repair. Usually the left rear frame rail sheared off. With that said, they were among the most durable and easiest to maintain guns at the rental counter.

Another fun thing you hear is how reliable revolvers are. Definitely not true. Nothing but problems compared to a modern auto. Rugers seemed to lock up their cylinders when dirty and smiths would launch their barrels down range to announce they have reached the end of their service life. Both broke small parts internally on the regular.

[M2CattleCo]

I've had more failures with Glocks and revolvers, they're about par with all my 1911s. P series Sigs and 9mm Berettas have been the most reliable handguns I've used.

I'm hoping that the latest iteration of Gen5 is better than the junk they've put out over the past decade.

[Cypher]

Depends upon what you mean by heat up. With a rate of fire high enough any gun will fail. So in the strictest sense the answer to your question is yes.

I was thinking the metal would expand as it heated up. At some point it expands out of tolerance.

[JBP55]

FWIW, I worked at a rental range and saw a lot of Glocks that failed beyond repair. Usually the left rear frame rail sheared off. With that said, they were among the most durable and easiest to maintain guns at the rental counter.


Sounds as if you are going all the way back to the "E Series" Glocks from long ago.

[Jared]

I was thinking the metal would expand as it heated up. At some point it expands out of tolerance.

I’d say by the time it got that hot, it’d be too hot to hold onto the pistol or close to it.

[deputyG23]

High grip gives better control but there’s no free lunch.

More commonly it causes failure to lock back. It’s common enough that Kagwerks is making a killing on their modified high grip slide release.

https://kagwerks.com/collections/slide-release

Glocks are common enough that they have been involved in almost every type of negative outcome. The Gen 2/3 .40 calibers for example had real issues. That said, the Gen 4 40s and Gen 5 9mm
S really are better mousetraps.

My work started buying Glocks in ‘88 and I have personally changed one broken striker in a G17 Gen 2, and two strikers and two shattered locking blocks in four different G23 Gen 3s.
Another armorer fixed a broken G22 G3 locking block in ‘04 on a six year old pistol.
That is all the issues we have had to the best of my knowledge.

[RJ]

I've got about 5,500 rounds through my G19.5 and probably twice that many dry practice presses in almost two years. Would you guys replace the firing pin assembly at this point? Or anything else?

I replaced the RSA at about 5,000 due to input from the forum. The rest of the innards are original; springs etc.

[Cypher]

I’d say by the time it got that hot, it’d be too hot to hold onto the pistol or close to it.

I think you're probably right. When I was in the Army I shot the M60 a couple of times till it was hot enough that I needed gloves to take the barrel off i and it continued to function well

[JBP55]

I've got about 5,500 rounds through my G19.5 and probably twice that many dry practice presses in almost two years. Would you guys replace the firing pin assembly at this point? Or anything else?

I replaced the RSA at about 5,000 due to input from the forum. The rest of the innards are original; springs etc.

I would replace all springs. I put over 52,000 rounds through a Gen 4 G17 before I sold it to a friend and the original firing pin was still good.

[spinmove_]

I would replace all springs. I put over 52,000 rounds through a Gen 4 G17 before I sold it to a friend and the original firing pin was still good.

Agreed. Replace the springs and drive on. Just make sure you’re checking for cracks and other damage along the way. At 5,500 I wouldn’t expect anything still.

[RJ]

Thanks for the input on springs. I neglected to recall that aktchually I have in fact already "replaced" several springs by swapping in new components w built-in springs in my G19.5 recently:

- New Trigger Mechanism Housing with integral Trigger Spring with later model part no.
- New Firing Pin Spring with a 5.0 # (now 4.5, contemplating swapping back to the 5.5. Still have the OEM spring.)
- New Ambidextrous Slide Stop Lever with integral Slide Lock spring (OEM extended stop model)

So looks like from what I can tell from a Glock Gen 5 parts diagram, the only springs I haven't swapped are the Extractor Depressor Plunger Spring and the Firing Pin Safety Spring...? I suppose parts are cheap so I'll toss in one of these each in my next Brownell's order.

Thanks guys, as always this forum is a great resource. Thank you.

[11B10]

In my experience, Glocks don’t break much. If they do, I can generally fix them, and if not, I have had great CS from Glock. In the past month, I sent them a G4 19 MOS slide with a screw stripped and broken off by my attempts to remove it. They fixed it right up for me without charge.

I am not mechanically inclined, and there is no other pistol that I can work on or get parts for as easily as a Glock.



So much this ^^^^^!! I'm fond of saying: If you can't fix a Glock, you probably shouldn't be carrying a firearm. Kinda the "Chevy" of handguns .

[11B10]

Thanks for the input on springs. I neglected to recall that aktchually I have in fact already "replaced" several springs by swapping in new components w built-in springs in my G19.5 recently:

- New Trigger Mechanism Housing with integral Trigger Spring with later model part no.
- New Firing Pin Spring with a 5.0 # (now 4.5, contemplating swapping back to the 5.5. Still have the OEM spring.)
- New Ambidextrous Slide Stop Lever with integral Slide Lock spring (OEM extended stop model)

So looks like from what I can tell from a Glock Gen 5 parts diagram, the only springs I haven't swapped are the Extractor Depressor Plunger Spring and the Firing Pin Safety Spring...? I suppose parts are cheap so I'll toss in one of these each in my next Brownell's order.

Thanks guys, as always this forum is a great resource. Thank you.


RJ, don't know if you remember a post I did a couple years ago about my G30S and the "frozen" extractor depresser plunger spring, which will now be called the edps, for obvious reasons. Anyway, Readers Digest version: My first attempt to disassemble the slide and the edps assy. refused to budge, despite every method I knew of. I took the gun to the FFL's armorer, who was also stymied. Gun sent back to Glock, THEY (gent said he was an engineer) called ME to get the details of my cleaning 'regimen,' said they had never seen anything like it before - apologized for my bad experience with my first Glock and....sent me a new one. Talk about a good first impression! Since then, I've bought five more.

[Lost River]

I've got about 5,500 rounds through my G19.5 and probably twice that many dry practice presses in almost two years. Would you guys replace the firing pin assembly at this point? Or anything else?

I replaced the RSA at about 5,000 due to input from the forum. The rest of the innards are original; springs etc.

FPS yes, actual firing pin or cups no.

[Lost River]

Sounds as if you are going all the way back to the "E Series" Glocks from long ago.

I was a state police armorer/instructor (side role, not primary) at the time, dealing with some E series guns. (2001-02 ish??) time frame. Broken frame rails. (Don't quote me on the time frames, it has been way too long ago)

When I received notice, I started inspecting guns in conjunction with a qual I was running. We had a few with broken, or missing rails. Surprisingly all the guns were still running.


This was also around the time period of 1 pin locking blocks that I went back and forth with Glock about. We had both .40s and .45s.

The .40s I discovered were having the front of the locking blocks pivoting up out of the frame and gouging the underside of the slides, reducing the slide velocity.

My big bosses were not gun oriented people, but when I explained that it was the reason why we teach people not to rest pistols against barricades while shooting (and each one had seen in their careers a malfunction when someone did), as well as to always grip a pistol tightly, they understood the importance of slide velocity

I ended up presenting my findings to the head of the state police, who asked if we should pull all the .40s statewide off line. When that became an option, it got some attention at Glock.

Initially the "official word" was that "this is not really a problem" and that the grooves will stop at a certain point on the underside of the slide. :rolleyes:

The regional rep was actually in a tough spot when I showed him that reduced slide velocity was a very real problem. He was caught between Glock and people who knew better. The rep had always treated me super kindly and I had known him since I started at a tiny little podunk outfit. Outstanding guy, so I felt bad about having him caught in the middle, knowing the pressure he was under.

Unbeknownst to me a counterpart at Illinois State police had discovered the same thing about the .40 cal locking blocks, and was having some similar conversations.

Glock ended up replacing every single one of our guns, both .40 and .45.

The new .40s had 2 pin locking blocks.

All we had to do was buy new night sights.

I am still a huge Glock fan, but everything breaks.

They have improved their product over the years (reliability wise) and I trust Glock for an out of the box solution more than most. (Glock and HK).

[Totem Polar]

So looks like from what I can tell from a Glock Gen 5 parts diagram, the only springs I haven't swapped are the Extractor Depressor Plunger Spring and the Firing Pin Safety Spring...? I suppose parts are cheap so I'll toss in one of these each in my next Brownell's order.

Harder to source, but you might want to get an extra plastic cap that goes in the EDPS (the end that presses against the underside of the gadget, or OEM backplate, should one be so jejune and unworldly...)

That thing seemingly comes in 2 varieties: easy to pop off/refit into the new spring, and *completely* fused to the old plunger spring. JMO. I’ve seen both variations, and the second one turned the air blue, with my participation.

[358156hp]

Glocks never fail... THAT IS AN ORDER!!!

Seriously, and machine or mechanical device can fail, I'm amazed that some people believe in perfection, or the Easter Bunny.

Train until you can't get it wrong, then train with your failure drills until you can't get them wrong either. And don't stop training.

[call_me_ski]

Now you're just talking shit. We know such is impossible. :)


In regards to the 92 I saw two separate 92FS barrels crack at one of the right angles above where the locking block sits. The rental range was brutal on guns. Preventative maintenance consisted of 1. Shoot to destruction. 2. Then assess.

[RJ]

RJ, don't know if you remember a post I did a couple years ago about my G30S and the "frozen" extractor depresser plunger spring, which will now be called the edps, for obvious reasons. Anyway, Readers Digest version: My first attempt to disassemble the slide and the edps assy. refused to budge, despite every method I knew of. I took the gun to the FFL's armorer, who was also stymied. Gun sent back to Glock, THEY (gent said he was an engineer) called ME to get the details of my cleaning 'regimen,' said they had never seen anything like it before - apologized for my bad experience with my first Glock and....sent me a new one. Talk about a good first impression! Since then, I've bought five more.


FPS yes, actual firing pin or cups no.


Harder to source, but you might want to get an extra plastic cap that goes in the EDPS (the end that presses against the underside of the gadget, or OEM backplate, should one be so jejune and unworldly...)

That thing seemingly comes in 2 varieties: easy to pop off/refit into the new spring, and *completely* fused to the old plunger spring. JMO. I’ve seen both variations, and the second one turned the air blue, with my participation.

Thanks all. I located the two springs/assy's I needed on Brownells:

100-026-254WB EXTRACTOR DEPRESSOR PLUNGER/SPRING GEN 5 $8.99 (Glock Part no. 3449)

100-026-256WB FIRING PIN SAFETY W/SPRING GEN5 $3.39 (Glock Part no. 33782)

[HopetonBrown]

I'm amazed that some people believe in perfection


Nobody thinks that.

"Perfection" is a marketing slogan.

Nobody is trying to put a tiger in their tank, or thinks America runs on Dunkin, either, in case you were wondering.

[blues]

Nobody thinks that.

"Perfection" is a marketing slogan.

Nobody is trying to put a tiger in their tank, or thinks America runs on Dunkin, either, in case you were wondering.

Man, I miss those old Esso ads. (That was our fuel of choice back in the day.)

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71CXK3QGp2L._SL1000_.jpg

[358156hp]

Nobody thinks that.

"Perfection" is a marketing slogan.

Nobody is trying to put a tiger in their tank, or thinks America runs on Dunkin, either, in case you were wondering.

You mean it's not real? I saw it on the internet... :)

[RJ]

Deleted.

[HCM]

My work started buying Glocks in ‘88 and I have personally changed one broken striker in a G17 Gen 2, and two strikers and two shattered locking blocks in four different G23 Gen 3s.
Another armorer fixed a broken G22 G3 locking block in ‘04 on a six year old pistol.
That is all the issues we have had to the best of my knowledge.

But what kind of round counts?

My local sheriffs office issues 40 caliber Glock 22s. However their average deputy shoots about 100 to 150 rounds per year. Several of the ISD (school district) Police departments in my area shoot similar round counts.

While this meets state minimums I personally consider it criminal negligence. You need to shoot to maintain proficiency with a handgun and when you shoot any gun enough it will break. More so if proper percent of maintenance is not performed as in my example with the P229.

As you can imagine Officers carrying a 40 caliber polymer handgun who only shoot 100 rounds once a year are not exactly Producing impressive results But that is the reality in many agencies

[Trooper224]

In regards to the 92 I saw two separate 92FS barrels crack at one of the right angles above where the locking block sits. The rental range was brutal on guns. Preventative maintenance consisted of 1. Shoot to destruction. 2. Then assess.

Now, now, if you think really hard I bet you'll realize those were Tauris handguns. Couldn't have been Berettas. :)

[Trooper224]

But what kind of round counts?

My local sheriffs office issues 40 caliber Glock 22s. However their average deputy shoots about 100 to 150 rounds per year. Several of the ISD (school district) Police departments in my area shoot similar round counts.

While this meets state minimums I personally consider it criminal negligence. You need to shoot to maintain proficiency with a handgun and when you shoot any gun enough it will break. More so if proper percent of maintenance is not performed as in my example with the P229.

As you can imagine Officers carrying a 40 caliber polymer handgun who only shoot 100 rounds once a year are not exactly Producing impressive results But that is the reality in many agencies

The G21 I used for most of my time on SWAT had a round count in the many thousands, it was also my standard issue sidearm for road patrol. When I transferred to my last assignment I turned it in and was issued something different and it was very well used when I gave it back. The only issue I can ever recall was one light primer strike in more than ten years. However, you're absolutely right about most LE weapons not being a good barometer for durability. Not only are most of them shot only during qualification, but most agencies of any size have adopted the policy of replacement every X number of years, regardless of rounds fired. Other than the knocks received from riding in a duty holster, LE weapons don't really lead a hard life.

[deputyG23]

But what kind of round counts?

My local sheriffs office issues 40 caliber Glock 22s. However their average deputy shoots about 100 to 150 rounds per year. Several of the ISD (school district) Police departments in my area shoot similar round counts.

While this meets state minimums I personally consider it criminal negligence. You need to shoot to maintain proficiency with a handgun and when you shoot any gun enough it will break. More so if proper percent of maintenance is not performed as in my example with the P229.

As you can imagine Officers carrying a 40 caliber polymer handgun who only shoot 100 rounds once a year are not exactly Producing impressive results But that is the reality in many agencies

One qual cycle per year. Two courses. 86 rounds total.
Cut in half at the onset of the Great Recession and not restored to its prior level.
One broken locking block was in a high round count jailers academy gun that did not get appropriate spring changes.
The other was issued to a deputy who engages in regular practice. His issue gun was scheduled for a spring change previously but got missed for some reason. The gun was fourteen years old at the time of breakage.

[Obelisk]

One day I’m going to make my own YouTube gun test channel. I think my gauntlet of tests will be the best. First I throw the gun in an underwear and sock drawer and fire it. Next I toss it in a container of chicken nuggets and French fries then fire it. Last most challenging bin is clothes dryer lint. Then I pour Mountain Dew on it and let the pistol dry over night and then test fire it. This testing was brought to you by my good friends at Bud’s and federal premium ammunition.

[HCM]

The G21 I used for most of my time on SWAT had a round count in the many thousands, it was also my standard issue sidearm for road patrol. When I transferred to my last assignment I turned it in and was issued something different and it was very well used when I gave it back. The only issue I can ever recall was one light primer strike in more than ten years. However, you're absolutely right about most LE weapons not being a good barometer for durability. Not only are most of them shot only during qualification, but most agencies of any size have adopted the policy of replacement every X number of years, regardless of rounds fired. Other than the knocks received from riding in a duty holster, LE weapons don't really lead a hard life.

Yeah, we qualify quarterly and our guys average 800 to 1,000 rounds per year. Apparently that is “high cotton” for a Agency.

Guys in specialized units shoot more. The P229 I referenced with the broken slide spring box had upwards of 25k rounds without a single recoil spring change. Definitely operator error as all of our guns or supposed to have the recall springs changed out two years prior regardless of round count. For some reason my agency is stuck on the idea of a service pistol going 10,000 rounds with no preventive maintenance or spring changes. The only gun I have seen capable of doing that has been the HK USP compact series.
.
Most of the Glock issues I have seen have revolved around third generation 40 calibers or early Gen 4 9mms. The issues with both have been resolved in later generations.

[Obelisk]

Yeah, we qualify quarterly and our guys average 800 to 1,000 rounds per year. Apparently that is “high cotton” for a Agency.

Guys in specialized units shoot more. The P229 I referenced with the broken slide spring box had upwards of 25k rounds without a single recoil spring change. Definitely operator error as all of our guns or supposed to have the recall springs changed out two years prior regardless of round count. For some reason my agency is stuck on the idea of a service pistol going 10,000 rounds with no preventive maintenance or spring changes. The only gun I have seen capable of doing that has been the HK USP compact series.
.
Most of the Glock issues I have seen have revolved around third generation 40 calibers or early Gen 4 9mms. The issues with both have been resolved in later generations.

My dept we fire maybe 180 a year. Not allowed to use PD gun range to practice. Im a member at a nice range with 3-4 other officers out of 160. I don’t think the others practice at all or maybe some might have the means at home? It don’t show in the shooting scores from what I see. But hey we are CALEA!

[Trooper224]

Yeah, we qualify quarterly and our guys average 800 to 1,000 rounds per year. Apparently that is “high cotton” for a Agency.

Guys in specialized units shoot more. The P229 I referenced with the broken slide spring box had upwards of 25k rounds without a single recoil spring change. Definitely operator error as all of our guns or supposed to have the recall springs changed out two years prior regardless of round count. For some reason my agency is stuck on the idea of a service pistol going 10,000 rounds with no preventive maintenance or spring changes. The only gun I have seen capable of doing that has been the HK USP compact series.
.
Most of the Glock issues I have seen have revolved around third generation 40 calibers or early Gen 4 9mms. The issues with both have been resolved in later generations.

My old agency qualified quarterly, probably 400-600 rounds a year. Most of the guns didn't see any more than that. Hardly a stress test. In the division I retired from, we carried the G22 for a number of years, before switching to the G17 about 6-8 months before I retired. I long suspected we would have had trouble with the 22s if we had ran them hard.

[HCM]

My dept we fire maybe 180 a year. Not allowed to use PD gun range to practice. Im a member at a nice range with 3-4 other officers out of 160. I don’t think the others practice at all or maybe some might have the means at home? It don’t show in the shooting scores from what I see. But hey we are CALEA!

We don’t have our own range locally. We currently use a multi agency county LE range for most of our training and a small PD Range for some speciaiized training. We have been having open range/practice sessions available in the afternoons but there has been minimal response. Not sure how much of that is lack of interest versus supervisors not letting people attend.

We would rather have supervised practice with coaching since practice makes permanent. We do give out practice ammo and targets for people to use on commercial ranges milk if they want to practice on their own. I usually recommend they use at least one box of the practice ammo to do that torture since it works a variety of skills.

[Obelisk]

We don’t have our own range locally. We currently use a multi agency county LE range for most of our training and a small PD Range for some speciaiized training. We have been having open range/practice sessions available in the afternoons but there has been minimal response. Not sure how much of that is lack of interest versus supervisors not letting people attend.

We would rather have supervised practice with coaching since practice makes permanent. We do give out practice ammo and targets for people to use on commercial ranges milk if they want to practice on their own. I usually recommend they use at least one box of the practice ammo to do that torture since it works a variety of skills.

I shoot once or twice a week. Our shooting instructors don’t know how to teach or even what to look for. They are there for the rank and pay. Here’s a mag with a dummy in it, you’re flinching, no you’re jerking the trigger. That’s their help. I sought out a civilian pistol instructor who straighten my ass up quick. “My god man your grip sucks! Do this. Practice this”. I shoot great now. I shoot dot torture or a version of it every session. Most people think I’m weird doing it or doing 30 one shot draws, but man I can get a round on a small steel plate quick now.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Without going into the Make, never mind any specific Models, I have seen a significant number of stoppages appear on dashcam and BWC footage. Far more so than I'll see on the range unless we're intentionally inducing stoppages. The exception to that being Gen 3 G22s and poorly set-up, maintained 1911s.

In kicking this around with several others, more than a few of whom have hung out here, the consensus is that "something" with the grip is radically altered when bad things happen. That something leads to the stoppages. There were multiple OIS videos this past spring, summer with stoppages that had to be cleared.

As for getting on the radio before the problem is truly over ... it is a training problem. "We" keep telling, teaching them that the radio is their lifeline so they go to it when they really need to be ending the fight. Some of those instances are truly scary. Dispatch cannot help you. Hell, a lot of the time the cop in the adjacent beat can't help you then either.

[JF1]

"There were multiple OIS videos this past spring, summer with stoppages that had to be cleared."

I would have loved to have these videos when we were fighting over switching to a reliable system vs teaching people not to "limp wrist." It will be interesting to see where the profession goes as reality is played out on video as to what training standards and equipment works and doesn't work. Not that we don't already know some of the short comings, but how long can law enforcement and company administrators hide their heads in the sand and say they weren't aware of problems?

[Seven_Sicks_Two]

In regards to the 92 I saw two separate 92FS barrels crack at one of the right angles above where the locking block sits. The rental range was brutal on guns. Preventative maintenance consisted of 1. Shoot to destruction. 2. Then assess.

It sounds like we worked at the same range hahaha... very occasionally we'd have a new guy clean rental guns if it was slow or something. Generally they were just run hard until something broke.

[M2CattleCo]

"There were multiple OIS videos this past spring, summer with stoppages that had to be cleared."

I would have loved to have these videos when we were fighting over switching to a reliable system vs teaching people not to "limp wrist." It will be interesting to see where the profession goes as reality is played out on video as to what training standards and equipment works and doesn't work. Not that we don't already know some of the short comings, but how long can law enforcement and company administrators hide their heads in the sand and say they weren't aware of problems?


I would like to hear more about that!