Rifle reboring

[Poconnor]

I am thinking of having a Winchester FWT rebored to 35 whelen. Has anybody used JES reboring? I still have to measure my barrel to see if there is enough diameter. I sold my last 35 whelen because I bought a Ruger guide gun in .375 Ruger. I figured anything that needed more than a 30-06 I would just grab the 375 Ruger. I am also thinking about the .338/06 and the 9.3x62. Thoughts?

[mtnbkr]

I am thinking of having a Winchester FWT rebored to 35 whelen. Has anybody used JES reboring? I still have to measure my barrel to see if there is enough diameter. I sold my last 35 whelen because I bought a Ruger guide gun in .375 Ruger. I figured anything that needed more than a 30-06 I would just grab the 375 Ruger. I am also thinking about the .338/06 and the 9.3x62. Thoughts?

I've heard nothing but good about JES. They would be my first stop if I had a similar project.

What sort of load are you going to use? What twist rate? Jacketed or Cast? The 35Whelen is a neat cartridge (I have an Encore with MGM 35W barrel), but you might have an easier time finding jacketed bullets for the 338/06.

BTW, if you cast and want to try a lighter bullet, I have Lee's 200gr 35cal mould you're welcome to borrow once you get your gun sorted. My barrel does NOT like light bullets and I can't get any accuracy with any load using cast or jacketed bullets below 220gr. The mould is sitting unused as a result.

Chris

[Hambo]

I've heard nothing but good about JES. They would be my first stop if I had a similar project.

Same here.

About the caliber question. Anybody who has interest in any 9.3mm is cool in my book, but I'd probably go Whelen first, then .338-06.

[okie john]

I am thinking of having a Winchester FWT rebored to 35 whelen. Has anybody used JES reboring? I still have to measure my barrel to see if there is enough diameter. I sold my last 35 whelen because I bought a Ruger guide gun in .375 Ruger. I figured anything that needed more than a 30-06 I would just grab the 375 Ruger. I am also thinking about the .338/06 and the 9.3x62. Thoughts?
I've heard good things about JES.

I've owned all three of the cartridges you're considering plus the 338 WM and the 375 H&H, but only killed game with the 9.3x62 (several feral cattle) and the 338 WM (bull Roosevelt elk).

If you're talking about North America, then of those five I'd go with the 338 WM because you can find ammo for it in more places. The 9.3 hits like the hammer of Thor. You can build it a bit lighter than a 338 or a 375, but a light 9.3 kicks pretty hard. The main advantages are that you get five in the magazine plus game drops closer to the gun than with the 30-06. It would be my first choice for Africa.

But the point is probably moot--if you need more than the 308 or the 30-06, then you probably need a lot more. Your 375 Ruger is a good next stop.


Okie John

[mtnbkr]

I've heard good things about JES.

I've owned all three of the cartridges you're considering plus the 338 WM and the 375 H&H, but only killed game with the 9.3x62 (several feral cattle) and the 338 WM (bull Roosevelt elk).

If you're talking about North America, then of those five I'd go with the 338 WM because you can find ammo for it in more places. The 9.3 hits like the hammer of Thor. You can build it a bit lighter than a 338 or a 375, but a light 9.3 kicks pretty hard. The main advantages are that you get five in the magazine plus game drops closer to the gun than with the 30-06. It would be my first choice for Africa.

But the point is probably moot--if you need more than the 308 or the 30-06, then you probably need a lot more. Your 375 Ruger is a good next stop.


Okie John

If I read his post correctly, he's not considering the 338WM, but reboring an existing rifle to 35Whelen, 338/06, or 9.3x62. All of those are roughly 30-06 class cases, so I assume the donor rifle is 30-06 as well. Going up to 338WM would not be possible. I *think* it requires a longer action and a different bolt head.

I see 35whelen ammo on the shelf, but it's usually 200gr loads. There are sometimes 250s, but those are expensive. Last time I saw them, the 250s were $50/box, while the 200s were about $35. However, 35cal rifle components are hard to find (mostly stuff appropriate for 35Rem).

Alternatively, 338/06 loaded ammo is quite rare around here, but because it uses the same bullet as the popular 338WM, you have a great selection of component bullets.

In either case, modifying 30-06 brass is easy, so your brass is a nonissue.

I've never looked into 9.3x62. I know from reputation is is quite good, but I haven't paid attention to ammo or component availability.

Chris

[LittleLebowski]

Really interesting thread.

[Poconnor]

I had a Remington 700 classic in 35 whelen which went when I got the 375 Ruger. I have a stainless Winchester 70 in .375 h&h too. I got them both with dreams of Africa and Alaska. I could have stopped with the 375 h&h but the Ruger alaskan gun is super handy with its 20” barrel and the open sights are really nice. I often think most of my hunting could be covered with two Ruger guide guns; 20” 30-06 and 20” 375. There is a good reason the classic setup for Africa was a 30-06, 375 h&h and a 12 gauge. The only thing stopping me from getting the Ruger 30-06 guide gun is that ugly ass green laminated stock. My 375 came with an ugly but practical black rubber hogue stock. Truthfully I don’t need a 338-06, 35 whelen or a 9.3x62 but when has that mattered? I was looking at nosler partition sectional densities and I think I am leaning to a 338-06 with the model 70’s featherweight barrel. .338 has same bullet weights available as the 35 whelen but with higher SD so it should penetrate better. I don’t know about you but with hunting I like to shoot through what I’m hunting. If this rebore shoots well I will probably get a Remington 7600 carbine pump rebored to 35 whelen. Grice just released another run of 7600 carbines in 35 whelen straight from Remington but I will pass. I will keep my eye out for a 9.3x62. For some reason I feel that one should be a Mauser action. The search never ends

[mtnbkr]

I was looking at nosler partition sectional densities and I think I am leaning to a 338-06 with the model 70’s featherweight barrel. .338 has same bullet weights available as the 35 whelen but with higher SD so it should penetrate better. I don’t know about you but with hunting I like to shoot through what I’m hunting.

The 338 will leave more meat in the Featherweight's barrel.

What bullets were you comparing? With the 35Whelen, you can get up to 300gr (I have NOE's copy of the venerable Lyman 358009 (https://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByCaliber/The%20358009.pdf) that drops 280gr slugs). That'll punch through multiple anythings in America. :)

As I've said above, you'll fine more bullets for the 338 at your local reloading emporium. The 35W will require more effort.

What twist rate are you considering?

Chris

[okie john]

I had a Remington 700 classic in 35 whelen which went when I got the 375 Ruger. I have a stainless Winchester 70 in .375 h&h too. I got them both with dreams of Africa and Alaska. I could have stopped with the 375 h&h but the Ruger alaskan gun is super handy with its 20” barrel and the open sights are really nice. I often think most of my hunting could be covered with two Ruger guide guns; 20” 30-06 and 20” 375. There is a good reason the classic setup for Africa was a 30-06, 375 h&h and a 12 gauge. The only thing stopping me from getting the Ruger 30-06 guide gun is that ugly ass green laminated stock. My 375 came with an ugly but practical black rubber hogue stock. Truthfully I don’t need a 338-06, 35 whelen or a 9.3x62 but when has that mattered? I was looking at nosler partition sectional densities and I think I am leaning to a 338-06 with the model 70’s featherweight barrel. .338 has same bullet weights available as the 35 whelen but with higher SD so it should penetrate better. I don’t know about you but with hunting I like to shoot through what I’m hunting. If this rebore shoots well I will probably get a Remington 7600 carbine pump rebored to 35 whelen. Grice just released another run of 7600 carbines in 35 whelen straight from Remington but I will pass. I will keep my eye out for a 9.3x62. For some reason I feel that one should be a Mauser action. The search never ends

Now I understand the problem—you’ve gone off of the deep end. I've been there, and here's what I learned:

A 375 Ruger carbine would check a lot of boxes for me, especially if paired with a similar 30-06. Of the ’06-based cartridges you mention, I prefer the 9.3x62. Heavy .338” bullets have high sectional density but were designed for 338 WM velocities and may not expand going 2-300 fps slower. Both of my 338-06 rifles had 24” barrels and would barely make 2,400 fps with 250-grain bullets. I had one 35 Whelen with a 22” barrel and one with a 23” barrel; both would easily move a 250-grain bullet 2,550 fps. My 9.3x62 could easily push a 250-grain bullet to 2,650 fps and a 286-grain bullet to 2,450 fps in a 22” barrel. That said, I may be overthinking the velocity issue—anything big enough to truly require this class of cartridge has a vital zone the size of a toilet seat and will probably be within 200 yards of the gun.

Rate of twist is also an issue. Factory 35 Whelen rifles tend to be 1:16 which I think they did to keep pressures low. Lighter bullets are accurate but 250-grain or heavier bullets may not be unless you push them as fast as they’ll go.

I’ve moved away from these three because sometimes my hunts involve an airline, so it’s just a matter of time until my ammo is lost or shows up late. I want to be able to replace it from a big-box store in a podunk town at 2130 hrs on a Tuesday if necessary, so I stick to 308, 30-06, and 338 WM.

I also think that the Barnes TTSX and other monometal bullets force us to rethink SD. Conventional wisdom says that you can drop at least one weight class (say from 180 to 150 or 165 in .308”) and get equal or better penetration than a cup-and-core design, plus you can drive them significantly faster which flattens trajectory. A buddy of mine guides for plains game in Africa and swears by a 165-grain Barnes TTSX at 2,900 fps in the 30-06 that he loans to clients.

He might be on to something.


Okie John

[okie john]

If I read his post correctly, he's not considering the 338WM, but reboring an existing rifle to 35Whelen, 338/06, or 9.3x62. All of those are roughly 30-06 class cases, so I assume the donor rifle is 30-06 as well. Going up to 338WM would not be possible. I *think* it requires a longer action and a different bolt head.

I see 35whelen ammo on the shelf, but it's usually 200gr loads. There are sometimes 250s, but those are expensive. Last time I saw them, the 250s were $50/box, while the 200s were about $35. However, 35cal rifle components are hard to find (mostly stuff appropriate for 35Rem).

Alternatively, 338/06 loaded ammo is quite rare around here, but because it uses the same bullet as the popular 338WM, you have a great selection of component bullets.

In either case, modifying 30-06 brass is easy, so your brass is a nonissue.

I've never looked into 9.3x62. I know from reputation is is quite good, but I haven't paid attention to ammo or component availability.

Chris

Just a suggestion to consider the 338 WM. It fits into an '06-length action and velocities would be adequate in the FW's 22" barrel since it has the same expansion ratio as the 30-06. It would require reboring, rechambering, and opening the bolt face and extractor from 0.473" to 0.532" but JES can do all of that at the same time. Not sure if JES could handle tweaking the feed rails, but that may not be necessary.


Okie John

[txdpd]

I’ve done a bit a hunting with a 35 Whelen. Other than my hunting buddy telling me that he knows it’s me when I shoot because of the thump the bullet makes on contact, it’s not any different than a 30-06. Considering the .30 bullet technology, I would be surprised if the 06 wasn’t actually a better performer.

For hunting .30-06
For fun I’d pick .35 Whelen over the .338/06 since the 35 has a SAAMI standard, while the 338 is a wildcat and I wouldn’t assume that the 338 A-square is up to code.

[SteveB]

Another vote here for the 9.3X62, one of my favorite calibers. Essentially a .366-06, it’s a great example of the heavy bullet at moderate velocity school. It is versatile; there is factory ammo available from 232 to 320 grains. I’ve taken game from pigs to bison with it. Next year, I’m going back to Africa for buffalo, and the 9.3X62 will be my light rifle. Hunting kudu in buffalo country, I’d rather have a 286 grain Barnes bullet on tap than the 300WM 180 TTSX I used on plains game the last time I was over there. In a variety of rifles, I’ve found it to be an easy shooting, accurate caliber, super effective on game.

[Rick R]

I’ve got two 9,3x62 rifles. It’s a great cartridge, accurate, doesn’t kick badly and put animals on the ground without drama. The majority of available projectiles are quite good for hunting. In two trips to So. Africa the largest animal I took was a Kudu. A friend went with me and the airline sent his ammo elsewhere. He found 9,3x62 ammo at a local gun shop.

Really, unless you have a special barrel contour it’s not that expensive to rebarrel. And if you aren’t happy with your new cartridge you can have a gun plumber screw the old one back on.

[TGS]

Flagging for GJM, as I think he's into "Thumpers" and might have some experience with the various big calibers.

[GJM]

Many years ago, I had Cliff Lebounty rebore a Ruger .375 H&H that I hunted in Botswana with, into a .416 Remington. That .375 was heavy for that caliber and just right, or even a tad light for .416, and the project came out fine. I hunted with a .338-06 for nearly ten years. I also have a 9.3x62 built on a pre 64 model 70.

My experience is bullet technology has advanced so much, caliber has become almost unimportant, and small increments of diameter have diminishing returns in the hunting field. I think anything from 6.5-.300 is likely to get the job done, if you place the bullet in the right spot. I found the .270-.300 magnums to allow me to better place the bullet, as they shoot flatter than a .338-06/Whelen/9.3, and in situations like fog and snow where your range finder doesn’t work, flatter is better.

All that said, I love rifle projects, and you don’t need much of an excuse to start a new one.

[Poconnor]

Okie, thanks for talking me off the ledge. I think I will go visit Bansner and get a new a stock for the 375 Ruger. I have too many projects to do. Maybe next year I will figure out what to do with the featherweight.