1990s Colts and MIM Extractors...

[MattyD380]

Anyone know what years Colt used MIM extractors in the late 90s/early 2000s? I've got my eye on some decently priced "Enhanced MKIV" examples from the mid-to late 90s. Don't have anything against MIM in other parts of the gun, but I've read the extractors used in this period were prone to breakage.

I handled a 95 Combat Commander--loved the feel. Fit seemed good on everything. Subjectively, it felt like a much nicer gun than the WC CCO I had a few years back--which had a shitty-feeling grip safety, mushy thumb safety and a rattle-trap slide. Also saw a 1997 (MKIV/E) listed nearby for a slightly better price. But I'm thinking that has a higher potential of being a "MIM year"?

I dig the look of the Enhanced guns. The top-rib and the slanted serrations appease my aesthetic sensibilities. Also prefer the shorter trigger in these vs. the long example used in the Commanders and Competitions currently.

[Duke]

New extractors of quality material aren’t terribly costly to acquire/fit.


Get the deal you can on the gun you want and have it freshened.

Unless this is a colt parts only-concours thing. Then just ignore me in general

[Trooper224]

The MIM extractor was one of Colts less than wise moves and didn't last long. If you can get a good deal on the gun, I wouldn't sweat it. Extractors aren't expensive or hard to install.

[theJanitor]

If you have Novak install sights, the enhanced rib lines up perfectly with the leading edge of the rear sight. It's a great install. I know lots of people might not like the Novak, but it's really a slick install

[Robinson]

I agree with the others, don't pass up a nice pistol that you like because of the extractor. If in doubt, put in a new one.

But anyway, the years Colt used the MIM extractors were 1998-2001. They probably didn't start and stop precisely at the beginning and end of that period though, so it would be hard to tell with a specific gun without examining the part. The way to tell is that the MIM extractors had a square recessed area toward the rear end where the sprue was attached during manufacturing.

[MattyD380]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, guys. I'm hoping to pick one up this weekend. I've had some bonus money sitting around for a few weeks and I think it's time for a decent 1911. Great insight on the extractor, Robinson. Seems like all of the options I'm considering would be outside that range. But as you said, who knows for sure. If it needs replacing, hopefully I can get it done without much trouble.

Interesting take on the rib--I just saw it as purely aesthetic, but I suppose it would sort of lead your line of sight down the slide. Perhaps that was its original purpose. In any case, I figure it'll look good next to my similarly ribbed Smith 645.

[theJanitor]

I don’t have a better pic, but you can sort of see the effect of the rib height and the rear sight.

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[MattyD380]

I don’t have a better pic, but you can sort of see the effect of the rib height and the rear sight.

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That is a fine looking piece. The front serrations aren't factory, right? I don't think I've seen an MKIVs with front serrations.

[theJanitor]

That is a fine looking piece. The front serrations aren't factory, right? I don't think I've seen an MKIVs with front serrations.

You are correct. Novak cut them in

[Rock185]

I think Robinson's MIM extractor years are probably about right. I bought two new stainless Government models, circa 2002/2003. Both had MIM extractors. I've never had a MIM part fail, but using MIM in a part that flexes didn't seem prudent to me. I called Colt, sent both extractors back, and Colt sent me two non MIM extractors.

In any case, I wouldn't turn down a gun just because it has a MIM extractor. It's an easy fix.

[358156hp]

One of the first things to do with a used 1911 is to check extractor tension and adjust or replace it. We've got a couple of current or semi-current threads going on making and keeping 1911s happy.

[MattyD380]

Thanks again for the input, guys. I picked up the 97 combat commander yesterday...

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Some fine scratching on the slide in a few places and an idiot scratch on the frame. But the slide/frame fit is very solid. No rattles. Trigger feels great (to me). Better than my 2019 EMP.

I haven’t taken out the extractor yet to get a definitive verdict on whether it’s MIM. But, it’s clearly been shot... and hasn’t broken. Also, the rear part of the extractor has been shaped so it’s flush with the back of the slide. Would that be done with MIM?

As far as tension... it holds a round in place when gently shaking the slide. Vigorously shaking throws it loose. Also saw another technique where you put the barrel in over the round held by the extractor... remove the barrel... and then rotate the slide (Heirloom Precision has a video showing this). Round stayed put. Hand cycling, it arcs the rounds on a pretty consistent trajectory, but definitely doesn’t launch them. I certainly don’t think it’s too tight... and hopefully it’s tight enough to be reliable.

Pretty busy with work and moving right now, so I haven’t/won’t have a ton of time to mess with it. I’ll hopefully get a few minutes to shoot it this week.

[farscott]

Perhaps it is the photos, but that pistol looks a bit yellower than stainless. Is it stainless or nickel-plated carbon steel? If the latter, it is a certainty the extractor is not MIM. The MIM extractor on the stainless guns is flash chromed, not nickeled.

[MattyD380]

Perhaps it is the photos, but that pistol looks a bit yellower than stainless. Is it stainless or nickel-plated carbon steel? If the latter, it is a certainty the extractor is not MIM. The MIM extractor on the stainless guns is flash chromed, not nickeled.

I’m 99% sure it’s stainless. Looks pretty consistent with other stainless guns I’ve had—but who knows for sure. Here’s a look at the back of the extractor...

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No seams or anything like that. But it is a slightly different shade compared to the rest of the gun.

[farscott]

Yup, that is a stainless pistol with the flash chromed extractor. If you remove the extractor, the ejector marks from the MIM process are easy to see. That being said, the rear of the extractor does not look like the MIM part to me. The finish is too smooth and lacks the porosity of the MIM part.

[MattyD380]

Yup, that is a stainless pistol with the flash chromed extractor. If you remove the extractor, the ejector marks from the MIM process are easy to see. That being said, the rear of the extractor does not look like the MIM part to me. The finish is too smooth and lacks the porosity of the MIM part.

Isn’t the whole thing either MIM or not MIM?

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If I have a few minutes tonight I’ll yank it outta there.

[farscott]

Yes, the whole extractor is or is not MIM, and it is possible to distinguish them in the pistol once you have examined a few of them. Of course, it is easier and definitive to examine the part when removed from the pistol.

[MattyD380]

Well, what’s the verdict? I don’t think it’s MIM—doesn’t have that gap like the one in the pic does.

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Now for a lovely chorus of cursing as I try to get this sonnofabitch back together...

[farscott]

That is NOT a MIM extractor. Good luck with assembly.

[MattyD380]

That is NOT a MIM extractor. Good luck with assembly.

Nice. Thanks for the confirmation. I got it back together without too much trouble/rampant profanity.

Well, I suppose next step is too shoot it. Hopefully I’ll get it out this week.

[Robinson]

That is NOT a MIM extractor. Good luck with assembly.

Agreed. NOT a MIM extractor.

[MattyD380]

Put 100 rounds of ball through it. Had one last-round FTFeed on the last mag I shot. Round was angled up, perpendicular to the bore. Ejection was consistent and strong. It really chucked them out. No brass to the head, etc.

Hopefully better/newer mags will prevent further feed issues. I get the impression the last-round FTFs tend to be Mag related? I was using the stock “Shooting Star” 8-round mags. Which I think are Chip McCormick? Springs maybe felt a little weak. I picked up a Wilson 47D on my way out. I’ll give that a whirl next time.

But I like the way it shot, overall. It’s been a while since I’ve shot .45, but it only took me a mag or two to start getting some decent groups. It could definitely use some grippier grips and possibly a shorter trigger. For some reason, I thought the triggers from this era were short triggers—not sure if this one counts as a medium or a long.

Also... for flush mags, what’s the best option? 7-rounders for flush, I’ve read. I know Wilson makes some. What about the Springfield 7-rounders? Looks like they’ve got a little dimple on the follower to keep the last round under control. Which makes sense.

Thanks, guys.

[farscott]

I like to use Colt-marked Metalform bodies with Tripp Super 7 follower and spring kits. https://shop.harrisoncustom.com/tr-super-7-kit

[JAH 3rd]

When one asks about 1911s and mags, lots of choices out there. I know you want flush fitting 7-round mags, but here are the two I use most. I use the Chip McCormick Power mags, 8 rounds in stainless. Seven rounders....I use Checkmate 7-round magazines. Both run great in my Springfield Loaded and Dan Wesson A2. Not flush, but doesn't detract from appearance. Both 100%.


https://www.topgunsupply.com/check-mate-.45acp-7rd-blue-cmf-removable-base-full-size-1911-magazine.html

[358156hp]

While we're talking mags, I have a fair lot of older Colt stainless mags with CMC Devel type followers. since I also have a 4 inch SA Compact on a full-size frame, I recently changed most of my older mag springs over to Wolff extra power springs, but left the Shooting Star followers in, since I wasn't having issues with the mags, the springs were just a decade or so old. Should I be looking at different followers? Like I said earlier, I wasn't having any problems.

[MattyD380]

Thanks for the input, guys.

I've been doing some research on mags myself. It's... mind boggling? Also went through the "Art and Science of Keeping Your 1911 Running" thread. Starting to question my 47D purchase--which isn't hard because I hate how far it sticks out.

All that said, I'm pretty sure the FTF I had was an "inertia feed." Basically, the round bounced out of the mag under recoil. My layman's logic suggests having a dimple on the follower is a pretty good way to prevent this. So, I think I'd opt for a dimpled mag?

The Checkmates and the Tripp followers both have dimples. In fact... so do basic GI mags. I understand there's also wadcutter lips, hybrid lips, GI, etc. Not really sure why I would / wouldn't want any of those.

So I guess, my question is...

Assuming I'm okay with 7 rounds and I'm shooting 230gr ball... is there a reason to go for something other than GI style mags?

At this point I might just order a few different kinds and see what works best.

[Amp]

While we're talking mags, I have a fair lot of older Colt stainless mags with CMC Devel type followers. since I also have a 4 inch SA Compact on a full-size frame, I recently changed most of my older mag springs over to Wolff extra power springs, but left the Shooting Star followers in, since I wasn't having issues with the mags, the springs were just a decade or so old. Should I be looking at different followers? Like I said earlier, I wasn't having any problems.

I would test fire the mags to make sure they are reliable after the spring swap, and if they are, I wouldn't change out the followers. I've gotten good service from the Colt mags with Shooting Star followers over the years.

[Robinson]

Thanks for the input, guys.

I've been doing some research on mags myself. It's... mind boggling? Also went through the "Art and Science of Keeping Your 1911 Running" thread. Starting to question my 47D purchase--which isn't hard because I hate how far it sticks out.

All that said, I'm pretty sure the FTF I had was an "inertia feed." Basically, the round bounced out of the mag under recoil. My layman's logic suggests having a dimple on the follower is a pretty good way to prevent this. So, I think I'd opt for a dimpled mag?

The Checkmates and the Tripp followers both have dimples. In fact... so do basic GI mags. I understand there's also wadcutter lips, hybrid lips, GI, etc. Not really sure why I would / wouldn't want any of those.

So I guess, my question is...

Assuming I'm okay with 7 rounds and I'm shooting 230gr ball... is there a reason to go for something other than GI style mags?

At this point I might just order a few different kinds and see what works best.

I think the 47D is an okay magazine for training and practice, but my carry gun and HD gun are each loaded 7+1 with a 47. The advantage I see to a mag with a baseplate that extends a bit from the bottom of the frame is that it makes reloads easier and more secure. They don't all extend as far as the 47D 8-rounder.

I've used Colt flush-fit magazines without any trouble, and the WC 47, Checkmate, Tripp, and Ed Brown mags all work well. This isn't a criticism, but you might be over-thinking this a bit.

If you don't like the 47Ds and want to try something different, send them to Ed Brown and they will exchange each one for one of their mags for a cost of $10 or $15 each depending on finish. They have 7 and 8 round mags and they come with baseplates that you can add or remove as desired.

[45dotACP]

Thanks for the input, guys.

I've been doing some research on mags myself. It's... mind boggling? Also went through the "Art and Science of Keeping Your 1911 Running" thread. Starting to question my 47D purchase--which isn't hard because I hate how far it sticks out.

All that said, I'm pretty sure the FTF I had was an "inertia feed." Basically, the round bounced out of the mag under recoil. My layman's logic suggests having a dimple on the follower is a pretty good way to prevent this. So, I think I'd opt for a dimpled mag?

The Checkmates and the Tripp followers both have dimples. In fact... so do basic GI mags. I understand there's also wadcutter lips, hybrid lips, GI, etc. Not really sure why I would / wouldn't want any of those.

So I guess, my question is...

Assuming I'm okay with 7 rounds and I'm shooting 230gr ball... is there a reason to go for something other than GI style mags?

At this point I might just order a few different kinds and see what works best.

If you're just shooting ball ammo out of a range gun, you can get almost any mag to work well with the correct springs. Get the Tripp Super 7 kits and drop them in the shooting star mags you currently have. It's cheaper than buying a bunch of new magazines.

Lots of people like Wilson 47D mags, but I am not one of them. If you want 8 rounds, go a different mag with a longer tube.

The 7 round Wilson 47 is an excellent magazine, however why even bother when you can find other mags for less money, same reliability, and greater durability because the plastic follower wears away.

Checkmate makes some good mags as well. About magazine feed lips....it doesn't really matter which ones you use, but most contemporary mags use wadcutter feed lips and they work just fine.

[MattyD380]

This isn't a criticism, but you might be over-thinking this a bit.

Honestly, that's the most helpful feedback you could have given. :cool:

But seriously, thanks for the insight. I plan to put together a Brownell's order with a few different options. Might also try to find some Tripp super 7 kits as 45dotacp suggested.

[theJanitor]

.....but you might be over-thinking this a bit.


The 1911 does tend to bring this out of people

[JAH 3rd]

Honestly, that's the most helpful feedback you could have given. :cool:

But seriously, thanks for the insight. I plan to put together a Brownell's order with a few different options. Might also try to find some Tripp super 7 kits as 45dotacp suggested.


Once you decide on some mags, let us know what brand and how they work in your pistol.

[MattyD380]

Once you decide on some mags, let us know what brand and how they work in your pistol.

Will do. I ordered a Tripp Cobra 7 rd and a CM Classic 7 rd. Also ordered two Tripp super 7 upgrade kits... but I realized the bases of my current mags are welded on. Whoops. Also ordered an 18 lb recoil spring, which apparently is factory for the Commander.

I would have grabbed a Checkmate, but Brownell's apparently doesn't carry those. In any case, I think I've got a decent crop to choose from with the Wilson, Tripp and CM. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

[358156hp]

Will do. I ordered a Tripp Cobra 7 rd and a CM Classic 7 rd. Also ordered two Tripp super 7 upgrade kits... but I realized the bases of my current mags are welded on. Whoops. Also ordered an 18 lb recoil spring, which apparently is factory for the Commander.

I would have grabbed a Checkmate, but Brownell's apparently doesn't carry those. In any case, I think I've got a decent crop to choose from with the Wilson, Tripp and CM. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

1911 magazine bases aren't normally removable. You need to compress the mag spring & follower with a pencil, or something similar, then capture the spring independently of the follower or a straightened paperclip, or my favorite tool. a small allen wrench, then remove the follower from the mag first, Following this, remove the pin, allen wrench (whatever), and remove the spring. Watch the orientation of the old spring and reassemble in reverse order. This videos pretty good...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdgjU1Vfr5w

[MattyD380]

1911 magazine bases aren't normally removable. You need to compress the mag spring & follower with a pencil, or something similar, then capture the spring independently of the follower or a straightened paperclip, or my favorite tool. a small allen wrench, then remove the follower from the mag first, Following this, remove the pin, allen wrench (whatever), and remove the spring. Watch the orientation of the old spring and reassemble in reverse order. This videos pretty good...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdgjU1Vfr5w

Great. Thanks so much for the advice. Wouldn't have known you could remove springs/followers this way. I should get the stuff tomorrow. Might be this weekend before I get chance to really mess with mag kits, though.

[Greg]

The 47D can be improved with a Wilson 7 rd follower and spring kit.

The 8 rd spring is just puny and will crap out if you run a bunch of rounds through them.

An EGW oversized firing pin stop is maybe the best < $20 mod you can make to your pistol. Locks the extractor into place and the consistency allows better tuning of the extractor .

What springs have you replaced so far?

[MattyD380]

The 47D can be improved with a Wilson 7 rd follower and spring kit.

The 8 rd spring is just puny and will crap out if you run a bunch of rounds through them.

An EGW oversized firing pin stop is maybe the best < $20 mod you can make to your pistol. Locks the extractor into place and the consistency allows better tuning of the extractor .

What springs have you replaced so far?

So far, just put in a fresh recoil spring—18 lb. Haven’t had a chance to put the spring kits in the old mags yet.

[Rock185]

Plenty of good magazine options now days for .45 ACP 1911 type pistols. I'll just mention one type that has displayed exemplary performance for me and others. It is the Metalform 7-rounder with the rounded followers. I carried a Series '80 Colt Govt. with these magazines for my last decade or so in LE. Never needed any new and improved springs or followers. In fact, I wouldn't want it to get around, but I never changed springs, followers or anything. No drama, they just worked with ball, SWC and hollow point ammo. I'm retired now. Still have those magazines, used them for LEOSA qualifications, they still just work....

[45dotACP]

Plenty of good magazine options now days for .45 ACP 1911 type pistols. I'll just mention one type that has displayed exemplary performance for me and others. It is the Metalform 7-rounder with the rounded followers. I carried a Series '80 Colt Govt. with these magazines for my last decade or so in LE. Never needed any new and improved springs or followers. In fact, I wouldn't want it to get around, but I never changed springs, followers or anything. No drama, they just worked with ball, SWC and hollow point ammo. I'm retired now. Still have those magazines, used them for LEOSA qualifications, they still just work....I've always wondered about those. I used rounded follower Brownells branded 8 rd Metalforms and recall they were fantastic.

I originally got them to be range beaters so my competition mags WC ETMs didn't get beat up...turns out they were more durable than the Wilson mags. I deadlined more ETMs that were newer than the 8 round metalform rounded follower mags.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[RevolverRob]

I have a bunch of ETMs I’m still testing. At this point, I’ve been using six 47Ds that have Tripp Super 7 kits in them and I am VERY happy with the reliability. To the point I’m using them in my carry guns.

I even stuffed a Tripp Super 7 kit into one of my Wilson 47 Officer’s mags. It only holds 6-rounds, but it feeds perfectly.

I need to get some more Super 7 kits actually...

In short, I’m really pretty much sold on Tripp Research stuff. Virgil Tripp is a smart man, bear in mind the T in STI is for Tripp (Strayer-Tripp-Inc). He has been innovating, renovating, and keeping 1911s and of course the 2011 alive for decades.

[MattyD380]

Thanks for the insights, guys. I'm hoping to get the pistol (and the new mags) back out to the range tonight. Haven't had a ton of time the last two weeks... just moved. But I'll report back on how the the Tripp, the Wilson and the Checkmate function.

[MattyD380]

Results were not great.

Had 2 FTFs. One with the Tripp. I think the other one was with the CMC (before I said “Checkmate”—meant CMC).

First FTF was of the “half into the chamber at a 45 degree angle” variety. Second seemed to be an inertia feed. Also had a premature slide lock.

Definitely not a performance I’d deem satisfactory.

[theJanitor]

You ran the gun with stock springs and mags, and had a FTF, on your first range session.

You changed springs, and mags, and experienced 2 malfunctions on your second session? I suggest you go back to the original configuration and shoot it more, and really get an idea what you're trying to fix. Changing a bunch of things is what get's lots of people in trouble.

[MattyD380]

You ran the gun with stock springs and mags, and had a FTF, on your first range session.

You changed springs, and mags, and experienced 2 malfunctions on your second session?

Yeah. Good point. I figured I was eliminating a variable in in the off chance the stock spring was worn out. I guess it introduced new one. Honestly the fresh spring didn’t feel any more springy. Didn’t feel any different at all. Surprised I got that inertia feed (well, live round stovepiped, up) with the new mags.