CA specific UOF discussion

[AMC]

**Side discussion moved from UOF Video thread - BehindBlueI's**


San Mateo, CA, Police post-pursuit OIS. There are apparently more videos, including the pursuit itself on that PD's facebook page. The description of the event is at the link.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_vNHb9q5_I&feature=share
It's going to be very interesting to see how the implementation of AB392 impacts these types of incidents going forward. POST just pulled their informational video put out for Use of Force trainers in California because there was incorrect or contradictory info.....coming from the very DA's who are gonna be responsible for charging decisions under the revised use of force standards. I am not optimistic about the potential outcomes, depending on jurisdiction.

[Erick Gelhaus]

It's going to be very interesting to see how the implementation of AB392 impacts these types of incidents going forward. POST just pulled their informational video put out for Use of Force trainers in California because there was incorrect or contradictory info.....coming from the very DA's who are gonna be responsible for charging decisions under the revised use of force standards. I am not optimistic about the potential outcomes, depending on jurisdiction.

Concur, strongly.

Just looked at the POST website, it looks like they may have pulled that video down. Any pointers to it?

[AMC]

Concur, strongly.

Just looked at the POST website, it looks like they may have pulled that video down. Any pointers to it?

They did pull it. It's going to be redone before they release it. Doubt it'll come out before January 1st, when the new standards go into effect. A couple of the DA's who appeared were clearly, in my opinion, uncomfortable with some of AB392s language. The use of the word "necessary" is going to extremely problematic, and will allow politically motivated DAs to inject hindsight judgement into Use of Force decision making, if they are so inclined. The language regarding deadly force against fleeing felons is iffy, as well. There's a lot if disagreement within my own agency as to exactly how to interpret it. Bottom line.....you're gonna get exactly what you asked for, California.

[paherne]

They did pull it. It's going to be redone before they release it. Doubt it'll come out before January 1st, when the new standards go into effect. A couple of the DA's who appeared were clearly, in my opinion, uncomfortable with some of AB392s language. The use of the word "necessary" is going to extremely problematic, and will allow politically motivated DAs to inject hindsight judgement into Use of Force decision making, if they are so inclined. The language regarding deadly force against fleeing felons is iffy, as well. There's a lot if disagreement within my own agency as to exactly how to interpret it. Bottom line.....you're gonna get exactly what you asked for, California.

I have no doubt that Chesa Boudin will use the new language to flambe any officer who uses force if he is elected SF DA. My DA is good, for now, but the tide of stupidity flowing from the Dr. Shirley Weber inspired law will continue to frustrate law enforcement and community safety from here on out.

[TGS]

They did pull it. It's going to be redone before they release it. Doubt it'll come out before January 1st, when the new standards go into effect. A couple of the DA's who appeared were clearly, in my opinion, uncomfortable with some of AB392s language. The use of the word "necessary" is going to extremely problematic, and will allow politically motivated DAs to inject hindsight judgement into Use of Force decision making, if they are so inclined. The language regarding deadly force against fleeing felons is iffy, as well. There's a lot if disagreement within my own agency as to exactly how to interpret it. Bottom line.....you're gonna get exactly what you asked for, California.

Well, I guess the silver lining is that you won't have to worry about enforcing the law or any more OISs since you guys will be unarmed within a few years, anyway. :p

[Coyotesfan97]

God help the cops in LA County if George Gascon is elected as the District Attorney there. I heard he was running there.

[AMC]

God help the cops in LA County if George Gascon is elected as the District Attorney there. I heard he was running there.

He's currently our DA, and yes he's likely considering a run in LA County. One of the candidates running for DA (election is tomorrow) here now makes George Gascon look like Roy Arpaio. Possibly the worst candidate ever for DA anywhere in the nation's history. And that isn't hyperbole.

[Erick Gelhaus]

And that isn't hyperbole.

No, no it is not. I knew he had significant philosophical issues but I wasn't aware of the historical underpinnings and familial lineage until this evening.

[Caballoflaco]

No, no it is not. I knew he had significant philosophical issues but I wasn't aware of the historical underpinnings and familial lineage until this evening.

That dude scares me and I’m on the other side of the Rocky Mountains and Mississippi River.

[AMC]

I have no doubt that Chesa Boudin will use the new language to flambe any officer who uses force if he is elected SF DA. My DA is good, for now, but the tide of stupidity flowing from the Dr. Shirley Weber inspired law will continue to frustrate law enforcement and community safety from here on out.

And....he won. San Francisco just elected the unrepentant son of convicted communist revolutionary terrorist murderers as DA. A man who has essentially promised not to prosecute criminals, but to prosecute cops for using force. I have no words.

[Lex Luthier]

I thought I was far enough removed now that it wouldn't bother me, but it certainly does.
Gay Gezunt, AMC & PAherne, however you can manage to deal with this.

[Suvorov]

And....he won. San Francisco just elected the unrepentant son of convicted communist revolutionary terrorist murderers as DA. A man who has essentially promised not to prosecute criminals, but to prosecute cops for using force. I have no words.

Nor have I other than I knew it was going to happen. My wife is PO'ed at me because I refuse to attend any of the Christmas events in the city this year. I tell her I fear being arrested as a "Domestic Terrorist," but I simply do not want to help fund a city gov though the sales tax that seem to be beyond out of control.

I realize that the SFPD have a lot officers hired for their ability to swill the koolaid, but how the rest of you manage to put your uniforms on every day is inspiring in a "RMS Titanic Band" kind of way.

[AMC]

So we had a follow up meeting of our working group tasked with developing training for our officers on the new use of force standards in California. Interestingly, during our outreach to other departments' training divisions, we found exactly ONE other agency that sees potentially significant impacts of the new law. Most seem to think they can just roll out in service training over the next two years. I think this is an overly optimistic view, myself.

Ca POST did re-release their training video on AB 392. The new version omits some scenario examples given by the involved DAs.....most notably on applying deadly force against fleeing felons. When we questioned POST about this, they again told us "You need to consult your DA.....and good luck." I think Erick Gelhaus is likely correct. We're going to potentially have 58 different interpretations/standards for judging use of force in California.....until we get case law from the prosecution of some officers. That is sure to do wonders for recruiting.

[Erick Gelhaus]

So we had a follow up meeting of our working group tasked with developing training for our officers on the new use of force standards in California. Interestingly, during our outreach to other departments' training divisions, we found exactly ONE other agency that sees potentially significant impacts of the new law. Most seem to think they can just roll out in service training over the next two years. I think this is an overly optimistic view, myself.

Ca POST did re-release their training video on AB 392. The new version omits some scenario examples given by the involved DAs.....most notably on applying deadly force against fleeing felons. When we questioned POST about this, they again told us "You need to consult your DA.....and good luck." I think Erick Gelhaus is likely correct. We're going to potentially have 58 different interpretations/standards for judging use of force in California.....until we get case law from the prosecution of some officers. That is sure to do wonders for recruiting.

I "think" the difference in seeing / not seeing potential issues will be the experiences, or lack of, that those individuals have had with the complete process. Before I retired I was surprised at the number of people in organizations and associations that were not seeing issues of concern. AMC if I had to bet, your locale is going to give us insight into this.

[paherne]

I "think" the difference in seeing / not seeing potential issues will be the experiences, or lack of, that those individuals have had with the complete process. Before I retired I was surprised at the number of people in organizations and associations that were not seeing issues of concern. AMC if I had to bet, your locale is going to give us insight into this.

That's the most polite, "You guys are screwed," I've ever seen. LOL

Bizzaro World, we live in it. Now that I am officially evil and bad guys are the new good guys, when do I get my henchmen, hoes, globally-sourced, inorganic, non-regulated recreational pharmaceuticals and other benefits of being a villain? I need to throw some wheels and hydraulics on the hybrid and get some studio time to drop my new album. It's gonna be lit livin baller. I grew up in an interesting neighborhood, people would now call it diverse, so I'm gonna go return to my roots and buy more 49er gear + throw out all my blue shirts and hats. I'm gonna have to talk to the Chief, I can't dress in blue on duty.

Or, maybe I could act like all the HA hang-arounds in the neighborhood. Get a POS Harley that always needs work, wear Ben Davis trousers and boots with a wife beater even when it's 50 degrees, because meth. I DID like my Derby jacket as a kid. It was my most prized possession. Maybe I'll pull the fridge out in the driveway and take it apart to see how it works and make a time machine?

Who am I kidding, I can't change now. Time to retire.