Lesson Learned

[jslaker]

Range trips after lifting for the first time in almost 2 years while on a ketogenic diet tend to be less than productive.

Turns out glycogen-depleted rubber arms make for less than stellar marksmanship.

[F-Trooper05]

When you're physically and mentally exhausted is the perfect time to train IMO.

[jslaker]

When you're physically and mentally exhausted is the perfect time to train IMO.

Is and isn't. :) I'm still in the rebuilding fundamentals stage after a long hiatus from serious shooting, so I was shooting below my self-set standards, but I absolutely understand what you mean.

I do like to get in range sessions when I'm tired, hungry, etc when I'm in the swing of things; this was just excessive.

[jmjames]

Almost always when I hit the range, it's after the gym (the range is on the way home).

I've done some keto dieting in the past, it can be hairy for sure and make you feel weak. Good luck with it!

J.Ja

[John Hearne]

My personal take is that shooting while physically hosed is useful to measure your baseline and see what kind of performance hit you're going to take. Advancing one's skill level is tied to performing technique with as much perfection as possible. Anything that detracts from that level of perfect technique will slow the improvement process. Of course, I'm the guy who starts his practice session with 8 second draw strokes.

[gringop]

When you're physically and mentally exhausted is the perfect time to train IMO.

Please explain. Be as detailed as possible.

Gringop

[jmjames]

If you want to mimic potential real-world situations, it makes sense in a way. For example, if you are a law enforcement officer, a gun fight may not break out until a lengthy foot chase or physical struggle. As a civilian, it is possible that your need for a firearm will occur while you are in the middle of sleeping, or in the evening after a hard day of work. Depending on your daily activities, when you need a firearm is precisely when you are at your physical and mental worst.

Now, does going to the range immediately after an hour or two at the gym while experimenting with extreme carbohydrate depletion diets count as such? Eh, maybe, maybe not. But the idea of training while you are not in tip-top shape has some merit, I'd think, if you want to try to approximate some of the conditions you might be in when you need a gun.

J.Ja

[Jay Cunningham]

When you're physically and mentally exhausted is the perfect time to train IMO.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Pushing yourself (or getting pushed) to physical or mental exhaustion during training can show you limits of your performance and can also help with stress inoculation, but adult learning does not readily occur at those extremes.

[David Armstrong]

I'm not sure I agree with this. Pushing yourself (or getting pushed) to physical or mental exhaustion during training can show you limits of your performance and can also help with stress inoculation, but adult learning does not readily occur at those extremes.
Agreed. It is a good time to see how your training holds up under less than ideal situations, but probably not a good time to try to actually work on the training itself.

[jslaker]

Jay and David pretty much echoed my thoughts on it.

To expound a little bit on what I meant: glycogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen) is a compound used by your body in part to fuel the muscles during hard work. Ketogenic (very low carb, high fat) diets cause the body to shed most of its stored glycogen.

So, my body was already low on glycogen stores as a result of the diet, then I went and lifted heavy things which totally wiped out whatever stores I did have. That's not a normal type of sore or tired. Think about the kind of tired at the end of an extremely long run, where your legs just give out entirely and won't respond. You just physically can't make them work like you want them to.

That's the kind of tired I'm talking about, and it hit maybe 20 rounds into the range session.

[F-Trooper05]

I'm not sure I agree with this. Pushing yourself (or getting pushed) to physical or mental exhaustion during training can show you limits of your performance and can also help with stress inoculation, but adult learning does not readily occur at those extremes.

What if what you want to learn is how bad you suck when you're smoked? Obviously your brain's ability to retain information is better when it's well rested, but it's good to ocationally step out of your comfort zone to see where you stand IMO.

[GOP]

It depends on if you are going for skill development or if you are testing yourself IMO.

If you are testing yourself, then it is perfectly fine to push yourself hard when you are physically/mentally exhausted.

If you are looking for skill development, then you learn much more and more efficiently when both physically and mentally rested.

Two different goals.

[YVK]

When you're physically and mentally exhausted is the perfect time to train IMO.

I've done this multiple times in various disciplines, going out and training or competing after 36 hour call shifts. I still do it occasionally since sometimes that is the only free time I get.
I can pretty much guarantee that even after a relatively light night call my wife will tear me up on a tennis court. I stopped going skiing after a night shift due to a risk of injury. I usually can swim the regular 1 km in a pool later at night after getting some daytime nap, but with a lot of strain and much slower.

At the range, I am happy to get a sub-8 FAST, usually because I can't get a clean 3x5. I cap marksmanship drills at 18 yards or so 'cause going to 25 is a waste of ammo. There maybe was one or two times when I left the range without thinking "well, I am gonna write this one off to a post-call state..."
Training under exhaustion is not a training, it is testing your performance under said conditions. As I said, I do it just because the lifestyle dictates, but beyond knowing exactly how much my performance degrades, I've not found a benefit.

[Zhurdan]

While I understand pushing ones self, we are dealing with an item that is very unforgiving when it comes to mistakes.I'd recommend dry fire practice at these times first prior to going hot just to see if you have a mishap before going hot. Safety first and all.