CZ P01 Snappy?

[HammerStriker]

Does anyone else find the CZ P01 a bit snappy? I shot one next to a G17, G19, and Sig P226. I found the P01 the snappiest of the bunch. Everyone online seems to rave about the internal slide rails and low bore axis. My experience hasn't been what others are describing in terms recoil.

[Padwan]

Shot one maybe a year and half ago. A bunch of guys at the range were doing a comparison of compact pistols so it was a P01, a P228, a 92 Compact, and a Glock 19.2. The P01 was definitely perky. Manageable but the other two pistols proved to be less jumpy.

[m.mancini]

I always found the P01 to be quite unpleasant to shoot compared to other duty-sized 9mms. Not a big fan of it, can be shot well like anything else but it takes a lot of effort for a handgun that is not all that compact nor particularly light.
Also, I dont think CZs (at least not the metal framed ones) have a very low bore axis, it may look that way because part of the slide is concealed in the frame ? I think their bore axis is similar to that of other TDA guns.
I've seen locally anedoctal evidence of the alu frames not holding up well to "higher" round counts (>10k ?) and cracking near the slide stop hole.

[Clusterfrack]

The P-01 has a NATO spec, and has passed some very strict testing, including high round counts. I have not heard of widespread frame issues.

Bore axis is lower than a PX4 or 92, and higher than a Glock.

I think there are a lot of other more important variables in whether a gun works well for any given person. One person’s “snappy” is another person’s “tracks well and returns quickly”.

[1911Nut]

I think there are a lot of other more important variables in whether a gun works well for any given person. One person’s “snappy” is another person’s “tracks well and returns quickly”.[/QUOTE]

I agree completely with this assessment. And I have never found the CZ Compacts/PCR's to be difficult to manage and definitely prefer them to the "compact" Glock pistols.

[MattyD380]

Never shot a p-01 but I didn’t find my RAMI to be excessively snappy. In fact, I loved the way it shot—had a few arbitrary FTFs and didn’t feel like troubleshooting it. I’ve held a P-01 and loved the feel. As well as the RAMI shot, I’d expect the P-01 to be just as good and then some. And hopefully more reliable. I’d kinda like to get one, at some point.

[Clusterfrack]

Never shot a p-01 but I didn’t find my RAMI to be excessively snappy. In fact, I loved the way it shot—had a few arbitrary FTFs and didn’t feel like troubleshooting it. I’ve held a P-01 and loved the feel. As well as the RAMI shot, I’d expect the P-01 to as good and then some. And hopefully more reliable. I’d kinda like to get one, at some point.

That's disappointing to hear that your Rami wasn't reliable. I find myself wanting one, although I really don't need one.

[MattyD380]

That's disappointing to hear that your Rami wasn't reliable. I find myself wanting one, although I really don't need one.

To be fair, it was reman. Could chalk it up to crappy ammo, I guess--but my P239 (and whatever other gun I had that day) handled it just fine. I had run boxes of the same stuff through other guns. The RAMI had two FTFs that day.

It actually had a FTF on the first mag I ever shot through it. Then it had no issues for several hundred rounds, until the two aforementioned. For some, choking on a few rounds of reman wouldn't be a deal breaker. But instead of trying to troubleshoot with different ammo, etc. I conceded that my P239 was probably just more reliable. And the Rami did feel pretty chunky in the pants.

But it was a great shooter. Which is what makes me wanna try the P-01.

[HammerStriker]

To be fair, it was reman. Could chalk it up to crappy ammo, I guess--but my P239 (and whatever other gun I had that day) handled it just fine. I had run boxes of the same stuff through other guns. The RAMI had two FTFs that day.

It actually had a FTF on the first mag I ever shot through it. Then it had no issues for several hundred rounds, until the two aforementioned. For some, choking on a few rounds of reman wouldn't be a deal breaker. But instead of trying to troubleshoot with different ammo, etc. I conceded that my P239 was probably just more reliable. And the Rami did feel pretty chunky in the pants.

But it was a great shooter. Which is what makes me wanna try the P-01.

I have over 800 rounds in my P01, have used WWB, Blazer Brass, and cheap Federal Ammon. Also put a couple of mags of Federal HST JHP through the P01. To date, I have zero failures. The P01 has been utterly reliable, my only issue is I think its snappy for a 9mm. I don't usually find it necessary to death grip a 9mm handgun, but with the P01 I do. YMMV.

[claymore504]

I have a P01 Omega and it is a pleasure to fire. Snappy is not a word I would use to describe it at all. I took my P01 and P07 tot he range with me last time. The P01 has a softer feeling recoil than the P07 if that makes sense. However, I would not say either are snappy at all. Much more of a pleasure to shoot to me than a Glock 19, or any Glock for that matter. I had a Rami BD 9mm a couple years ago and wish I would have never sold it. It was 100% reliable with about 1000 rounds through it when I let it go. I will get another one for sure.

[HammerStriker]

I have a P01 Omega and it is a pleasure to fire. Snappy is not a word I would use to describe it at all. I took my P01 and P07 tot he range with me last time. The P01 has a softer feeling recoil than the P07 if that makes sense. However, I would not say either are snappy at all. Much more of a pleasure to shoot to me than a Glock 19, or any Glock for that matter. I had a Rami BD 9mm a couple years ago and wish I would have never sold it. It was 100% reliable with about 1000 rounds through it when I let it go. I will get another one for sure.

I'm not expecting my P01 to shoot like a .22lr, hell I don't own any .22s because to me they are underwhelming, like shooting a pellet gun. The Glock 19 is a softer shooting gun than the P01. I no longer own any Glocks, sold them all and my only polymer pistol is an M&P 2.0 compact - this gun also shoots softer than the P01. When I went to the range the other day, I was frustrated by the snappiness of my P01, so I rented a couple of Glocks for comparison sake. The G17 was the softest shooter of the bunch, if I had to rank from least to most snappy, I would say out of my sample it would go like this: G17<G19<M&P 2.0 compact<Sig P226<CZ P01. Really the difference in muzzle rise between the other guns was pretty darn negligible, only the P01 stands out to me in terms of how snappy it is. I was running 115 grain, not sure if that makes a difference, have read that the p01 likes 124 better? Yes, I could grip harder, and when I did the P01 felt less snappy, but the other pistols don't need to be strangulated to shoot pleasantly. Everything else, I like about the P01, the controls are in the perfect location, the egos are great. Never have a failure to lock back with the P01, no BTF, only had to change out the crappy sites it comes with...seriously though, that recoil for a 9mm is not pleasant.

[MattyD380]

I'm not expecting my P01 to shoot like a .22lr, hell I don't own any .22s because to me they are underwhelming, like shooting a pellet gun. The Glock 19 is a softer shooting gun than the P01. I no longer own any Glocks, sold them all and my only polymer pistol is an M&P 2.0 compact - this gun also shoots softer than the P01. When I went to the range the other day, I was frustrated by the snappiness of my P01, so I rented a couple of Glocks for comparison sake. The G17 was the softest shooter of the bunch, if I had to rank from least to most snappy, I would say out of my sample it would go like this: G17<G19<M&P 2.0 compact<Sig P226<CZ P01. Really the difference in muzzle rise between the other guns was pretty darn negligible, only the P01 stands out to me in terms of how snappy it is. I was running 115 grain, not sure if that makes a difference, have read that the p01 likes 124 better? Yes, I could grip harder, and when I did the P01 felt less snappy, but the other pistols don't need to be strangulated to shoot pleasantly. Everything else, I like about the P01, the controls are in the perfect location, the egos are great. Never have a failure to lock back with the P01, no BTF, only had to change out the crappy sites it comes with...seriously though, that recoil for a 9mm is not pleasant.

It's interesting how subjective recoil is. For me, a Glock 19 feels reasonably snappy--maybe it's the grip angle? Or that I've shot a Glock 19, like, 3 times in my life. I'd be willing to bet the RAMI had a decent amount of muzzle rise, but I guess I wasn't really looking for/grading it on that? Though it does have the dual spring setup--maybe that makes a difference. And I will say that the P-01 felt very lightweight in the hand. Lighter than a comparably sized Sig.

[Clusterfrack]

Unless we have high speed video of the same, skilled shooter shooting the same ammo out of each gun, this is going to be a subjective discussion.

Here are some things I've seen affect how people perceive recoil to be heavy and unpleasant:

Fit of hand to grip. Some people's hands don't fit some guns, or they haven't figured out how to grip it yet. Lots of people shoot guns that don't fit their hands. Narrow or sharp spots digging into your hand can make recoil seem awful.

Friction of grip/hand interface. Applying a rubbery grip decal or using Progrip can turn a "snappy" gun into a "soft, flat shooter".

Recoil spring / ammo matching. This is why people tune recoil springs on competition guns.

Weight of the gun is a huge factor.

Ammo: typically heavier-for-caliber loads shoot "softer", and light-for-caliber loads are "snappy".

I used to shoot Sig p320s, which have a high bore axis. Video showed that they flipped more in my hands than Glocks or CZs. And they felt much more "snappy". But, man I could split like a motherfracker with them. 0.16s splits, 1.8s Bill Drills, etc. With the right grip module and a Alma Cole grip treatment, the 320s tracked as well or better than my Shadow2s which are way heavier, "softer", and "flatter".

The theme to my posts here is that a gun isn't snappy or soft. It's more complicated than that, and it is mostly how you shoot the gun that causes what you're feeling.

[GJM]

Two different issues:

1) perception of snappiness vs what the timer says. For example, the PPQ feels snappy to me, but the timer really likes the PPQ.

2) another consideration is how the gun feels mechanically. For example, I never liked how a lightweight Commander felt with +P 45 ammo. The P01 feels a lot like the LW Commander, and I ran standard pressure ammo not the +P 124 Gold Dot, my default load. Les Pepperoni reported they same to me.

[Super77]

The theme to my posts here is that a gun isn't snappy or soft. It's more complicated than that, and it is mostly how you shoot the gun that causes what you're feeling.

Where do you put the CZ P-07/P-09 in the spectrum?

[Clusterfrack]

Where do you put the CZ P-07/P-09 in the spectrum?

G19 and P-07 feel very similar to me. The P-07 grip fits my hand better than any other gun I've tried, so it's easier for me to shoot than the 19.

Where on the spectrum? Wow that's hard to say. 9mm just doesn't recoil very much... I guess they're all pretty much the same--in the same size class.

I do notice a difference based on load, and strongly prefer 147gr in my G19s and P-07s.

When I shoot someone else's gun with a vertical grip angle, like 1911s, M&P, Sig, and Beretta, it makes me feel like I have to work harder on my support hand wrist tension. But that's probably because I don't own any of those guns anymore. (I didn't notice that when I was seriously shooting Sig320s.)

How's that for a non-answer?

[Super77]

G19 and P-07 feel very similar to me. The P-07 grip fits my hand better than any other gun I've tried, so it's easier for me to shoot than the 19.

Where on the spectrum? Wow that's hard to say. 9mm just doesn't recoil very much... I guess they're all pretty much the same--in the same size class.

I do notice a difference based on load, and strongly prefer 147gr in my G19s and P-07s.

When I shoot someone else's gun with a vertical grip angle, like 1911s, M&P, Sig, and Beretta, it makes me feel like I have to work harder on my support hand wrist tension. But that's probably because I don't own any of those guns anymore. (I didn't notice that when I was seriously shooting Sig320s.)

How's that for a non-answer?

Hehe thanks, the G19 comparison makes sense.

[Flat6]

Does anyone else find the CZ P01 a bit snappy? I shot one next to a G17, G19, and Sig P226. I found the P01 the snappiest of the bunch. Everyone online seems to rave about the internal slide rails and low bore axis. My experience hasn't been what others are describing in terms recoil.


I have P01 worked over by CGW with pro package, g10 grips and I find it flat shooting with slightly more recoil than my 92s or g19. My guess is hand configuration plays a large role as I like the grip as much as 92s with thin g10s, 1911s, hipower. The gun comes back online very quickly for me versus Sigs. It’s easier to carry than my 92 centurion- thin and 8ozs lighter fully loaded with plenty firepower.

[Clusterfrack]

Here's an interesting analysis of bore axis and trigger position relative to the grip.
https://www.guntweaks.com/pistol-bore-axis-comparison-what-is-low-bore-axis.html

I'm not sure the "alignment index" is quantitatively valid, and they do not show their math. However, it does raise the point that a lower bore axis can come at the cost of other ergonomic variables, such as whether my trigger finger has to bend down when I shoot a Glock. CZs have about the lowest bore axis of any hammer-fired gun, and I find the ergos to work very well for me--including the alignment of the trigger with the grip.

[Super77]

CZs have about the lowest bore axis of any hammer-fired gun, and I find the ergos to work very well for me--including the alignment of the trigger with the grip.

Not only low bore axis but it seems like CZs have relatively light slides due to the frame-slide configuration. A lot of metal that would normally be on the slide is on the frame. I have very limited experience shooting CZs but from recollection they seemed to cycle faster than say, a P- SIG where you can feel the slide clunk back and forth. I always found the OG sigs to be soft shooters even with their highish bore axis. With a CZ maybe a light slide, if that theory is correct, results in fast cycling which is perceived as “snappy”. I’m at the point now where I want the slide to cycle quickly and the sights to settle without the muzzle dipping so maybe that’s a good thing. Or maybe some other parameter is causing the perception of fast cycling and the slide is really in the ballpark of similar pistols. I don’t have a CZ slide that I can weight at the moment.

[HammerStriker]

Not only low bore axis but it seems like CZs have relatively light slides due to the frame-slide configuration. A lot of metal that would normally be on the slide is on the frame. I have very limited experience shooting CZs but from recollection they seemed to cycle faster than say, a P- SIG where you can feel the slide clunk back and forth. I always found the OG sigs to be soft shooters even with their highish bore axis. With a CZ maybe a light slide, if that theory is correct, results in fast cycling which is perceived as “snappy”. I’m at the point now where I want the slide to cycle quickly and the sights to settle without the muzzle dipping so maybe that’s a good thing. Or maybe some other parameter is causing the perception of fast cycling and the slide is really in the ballpark of similar pistols. I don’t have a CZ slide that I can weight at the moment.

Interesting perspective. I have only shot stationary with my P01, so haven't had the need for the slide to cycle quickly.

[Clusterfrack]

Glock 19 slide: 361g
CZ P-07 slide: 337g

The P-07 slide is 24g lighter. From a quick Enos forum search it looks like 1oz (28g) is a reasonable amount for a slide-lightening job.
https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/183028-real-testing-and-feedback-on-slide-lightening/

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191109/7be4cda51bb523d3566708cd1772b47d.jpg


Not only low bore axis but it seems like CZs have relatively light slides due to the frame-slide configuration. A lot of metal that would normally be on the slide is on the frame. I have very limited experience shooting CZs but from recollection they seemed to cycle faster than say, a P- SIG where you can feel the slide clunk back and forth. I always found the OG sigs to be soft shooters even with their highish bore axis. With a CZ maybe a light slide, if that theory is correct, results in fast cycling which is perceived as “snappy”. I’m at the point now where I want the slide to cycle quickly and the sights to settle without the muzzle dipping so maybe that’s a good thing. Or maybe some other parameter is causing the perception of fast cycling and the slide is really in the ballpark of similar pistols. I don’t have a CZ slide that I can weight at the moment.

[HammerStriker]

Glock 19 slide: 361g
CZ P-07 slide: 337g

The P-07 slide is 24g lighter. From a quick Enos forum search it looks like 1oz (28g) is a reasonable amount for a slide-lightening job.
https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/183028-real-testing-and-feedback-on-slide-lightening/

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191109/7be4cda51bb523d3566708cd1772b47d.jpg

That's one sexy P07 slide.