View Full Version : My winged Hussar kick has led me here on Amazon
LittleLebowski
10-23-2019, 08:59 PM
Free on Prime. I hope that it doesn’t suck. I’m fifteen minutes into it and seeing a lot of (necessary) CGI. Otherwise, not bad.
https://amzn.to/2JhcYHa
43973
JHC
It’s decent.
If nothing else it helps more people realize 9/11 was not a random date.
BehindBlueI's
10-23-2019, 09:54 PM
JHC
It’s decent.
If nothing else it helps more people realize 9/11 was not a random date.
Other than some Vanity Fair author speculating the link by incorrectly stating the Battle of Vienna occurred on 9/11 (it was 9/12/1683) has there ever been any actual proof that the date wasn't random? Without some documentation I just find it a hard sell that Saudis and Afghanis cared enough about the Ottoman's defeat in Vienna centuries earlier to plan their attack around.
The Ottomons attacked at 4am on 11 Sept, according to a wiki article citing Tucker, S.C., 2010, A Global Chronology of Conflict, Vol. Two, Santa Barbara: ABC-CLIO; Page 661.
Other than some Vanity Fair author speculating the link by incorrectly stating the Battle of Vienna occurred on 9/11 (it was 9/12/1683) has there ever been any actual proof that the date wasn't random? Without some documentation I just find it a hard sell that Saudis and Afghanis cared enough about the Ottoman's defeat in Vienna centuries earlier to plan their attack around.
The April 19th bombing of the OKC federal building wasn’t random either. terrorists like significant dates. There, you feel better?
BTW History major here. The dating of the Ottoman attack on Vienna beginning on Sept. 11 is as well documented as anything from the 17th century can be. Don’t know where you are getting this Vanity Fair nonsense. The siege started July 14, the battle which was supposed to be the final assault on the city began Sept 11 and concluded Sept 12.
Poconnor
10-24-2019, 04:55 AM
I have no problem believing that the date matters to some people. When I was in Kosovo the Serbs and Albanians were still arguing and fighting about the battle of Kosovo from 1389.
The April 19th bombing of the OKC federal building wasn’t random either. terrorists like significant dates. There, you feel better?
BTW History major here. The dating of the Ottoman attack on Vienna beginning on Sept. 11 is as well documented as anything from the 17th century can be. Don’t know where you are getting this Vanity Fair nonsense. The siege started July 14, the battle which was supposed to be the final assault on the city began Sept 11 and concluded Sept 12.
I'm not going thumbing through "The Looming Tower" (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=as_li_ss_tl?k=the+looming+tower&ref=nb_sb_noss_1&linkCode=ll2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=4dbca025c3c62ea7742b047843528246&language=en_US) looking for it but there or elsewhere or in more than one I seem to recall reporting of Bin Laden's own writings where he zoned in on this window of time in commemoration.
Dagga Boy
10-24-2019, 08:21 AM
9-11-1683 was basically the last day of Muslim domination and their last day of really seeing a worldwide caliphate in their sights.....until the Winged Hussars arrived. I got all geeky about the Winged Hussars back as a teen trying to study family history. Probably the finest cavalry unit in history.
Trooper224
10-24-2019, 08:33 AM
It's not a bad movie all things considered.
When I did medieval reenactment, I had a buddy who strutted around in that armor.
Kyle Reese
10-24-2019, 09:08 AM
I’ll have to check it out.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
BehindBlueI's
10-24-2019, 11:13 AM
The April 19th bombing of the OKC federal building wasn’t random either. terrorists like significant dates. There, you feel better?
BTW History major here. The dating of the Ottoman attack on Vienna beginning on Sept. 11 is as well documented as anything from the 17th century can be. Don’t know where you are getting this Vanity Fair nonsense. The siege started July 14, the battle which was supposed to be the final assault on the city began Sept 11 and concluded Sept 12.
Sure. There was evidence that McVeigh chose his date due to Waco. His own writings talk about Waco being his motivation, that he considered assassinations of those involved in the that incident, and ultimately decided that his point was better made by attacking a federal building instead of individual federal employees/officials. That's evidence, not mere speculation, as to why the date was chosen. I'm asking is there any similar evidence for the selection of 9/11.
An author from Vanity Fair (who's name escapes me at this point) was the first one to espouse the theory, as far as I could tell the first time I heard of this theory and looked into it. I asked if there was actually any evidence. I don't recall any in the 9/11 commission report. I don't recall the architects of the attacks using any language that would indicate it. I don't understand how an attack on secular targets (symbols of economic, military, and political might) in the US, are related without some evidence showing it to me. If the attack were on the Vatican, I could more readily understand the leap.
As such, my questions remains is there any evidence this was the case or does it remain solely speculation?
As for the date being established:
Encylopedia Brittannica:
The 80,000 troops of this relieving army formed along the top of the Vienna hills, and, on the morning of September 12, Lorraine’s and Sobieski’s forces attacked the Turks. By this point, the Turks had made serious inroads into the city’s defenses and are generally believed to have come closer to taking Vienna than they were in 1529. The battle raged for 15 hours before the Turkish invaders were driven from their trenches. The red tent of the grand vizier was blown up, but he escaped while thousands of members of his routed army were slaughtered or taken prisoner.
History Today:
On September 12th, in an open battle before Vienna, the Ottoman army was defeated, and the city escaped pillage and destruction.
Poland's .gov website (poland.pl): T
he Battle of Vienna took place at Kahlenberg Mountain near Vienna on 12 September 1683 after the imperial city had been besieged by the Ottoman Empire for two months.
Sure. There was evidence that McVeigh chose his date due to Waco. His own writings talk about Waco being his motivation, that he considered assassinations of those involved in the that incident, and ultimately decided that his point was better made by attacking a federal building instead of individual federal employees/officials. That's evidence, not mere speculation, as to why the date was chosen. I'm asking is there any similar evidence for the selection of 9/11.
An author from Vanity Fair (who's name escapes me at this point) was the first one to espouse the theory, as far as I could tell the first time I heard of this theory and looked into it. I asked if there was actually any evidence. I don't recall any in the 9/11 commission report. I don't recall the architects of the attacks using any language that would indicate it. I don't understand how an attack on secular targets (symbols of economic, military, and political might) in the US, are related without some evidence showing it to me. If the attack were on the Vatican, I could more readily understand the leap.
As such, my questions remains is there any evidence this was the case or does it remain solely speculation?
As for the date being established:
Encylopedia Brittannica:
History Today:
Poland's .gov website (poland.pl): T
And they are wrong. The Ottomans began their assault on Briana on September 11 with the slaughter of several thousand Christian prisoners. Not that this was that unusual for anyone in those days. If the Ottomans had not been engaged attacking the city for nearly 24 hours the polls and the Germans would not have been successful when they attacked the following day. September 11 was the high watermark, September 12 is when it all fell apart.
The assault on the city did continue throughout the night of the 11th into the 12th. There was The assault on the city did continue throughout the night of the 11th into the 12th. There was not a battle on the 11th then a break then another battle on the 12th battle on the 11th then a break then another battle on the 12th
As for the motivation, bin Laden and others talked about the significance of the date as JHC mentioned.
Sure. There was evidence that McVeigh chose his date due to Waco. His own writings talk about Waco being his motivation, that he considered assassinations of those involved in the that incident, and ultimately decided that his point was better made by attacking a federal building instead of individual federal employees/officials. That's evidence, not mere speculation, as to why the date was chosen. I'm asking is there any similar evidence for the selection of 9/11.
An author from Vanity Fair (who's name escapes me at this point) was the first one to espouse the theory, as far as I could tell the first time I heard of this theory and looked into it. I asked if there was actually any evidence. I don't recall any in the 9/11 commission report. I don't recall the architects of the attacks using any language that would indicate it. I don't understand how an attack on secular targets (symbols of economic, military, and political might) in the US, are related without some evidence showing it to me. If the attack were on the Vatican, I could more readily understand the leap.
As such, my questions remains is there any evidence this was the case or does it remain solely speculation?
As for the date being established:
Encylopedia Brittannica:
History Today:
Poland's .gov website (poland.pl): T
I'm not sure why you feel the need to punk HCM on this and pull so many "Well aktshually!" moments, and continue to argue about it, but the first reference you provided states that the Poles attacked on 12 Sept, which is true, and not contradictory to the battle starting on the 11th when the Ottomons attacked....
...and the second one you provided says that the Ottomons were defeated on the 12th, which is also correct, and also not contradictory to the fact that the battle started on the 11th.
Rex G
10-24-2019, 01:00 PM
My Polish father-in-law spoke very highly of the Huzaria.
BehindBlueI's
10-24-2019, 01:00 PM
I'm not sure why you feel the need to punk HCM on this and pull so many "Well aktshually!" moments, and continue to argue about it, but the first reference you provided states that the Poles attacked on 12 Sept, which is true, and not contradictory to the battle starting on the 11th when the Ottomons attacked....
...and the second one you provided says that the Ottomons were defeated on the 12th, which is also correct, and also not contradictory to the fact that the battle started on the 11th.
I'm not trying to "punk" or even contradict HCM on his overall theory. I'm asking if he has any evidence. I looked in to this before and didn't find any. I am legitimately interested if he has information I do not because the topic interests me.
On the date, yes, I'm contradicting him. Based on the information provided.
BehindBlueI's
10-24-2019, 01:03 PM
As for the motivation, bin Laden and others talked about the significance of the date as JHC mentioned.
Any idea where I can read that?
I've looked at a not insignificant amount of "how jihadis are recruited" type stuff and haven't ran across it.
SiriusBlunder
10-24-2019, 02:22 PM
Haven't looked for more recent info, but this article from 10 September 2016 sums up some of the theories and sources:
Why Did the Terrorists Choose September 11? (https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/09/10/why-did-the-terrorists-choose-september-11/1/)
Any idea where I can read that?
I've looked at a not insignificant amount of "how jihadis are recruited" type stuff and haven't ran across it.
As I noted to HCM's post, "IIRC" I've read in one or more places that Vienna was ID'd as inspiring this date. Just this afternoon, based on this back and forth I've been searching on line for and figured it wouldn't be that hard. However, I find a plethora of theories and a dearth of "letter from Bin Laden" saying it flat out as I thought existed.
I did find a reference to Lawrence Wright's book "The Looming Tower" (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=as_li_ss_tl?k=the+looming+tower&crid=37QJT4NJFEKC3&sprefix=The+looming,aps,135&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_11&linkCode=ll2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=73d68d6da29a640c62725e7cb346cd70&language=en_US) where I suspected I'd originally seen it but his treatment was also a supposition.
I think the correlation is strong but I cannot point to a reference for the horse's mouth.
It's in the Looming Tower (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=as_li_ss_tl?k=the+looming+tower&crid=37QJT4NJFEKC3&sprefix=The+looming,aps,135&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_11&linkCode=ll2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=73d68d6da29a640c62725e7cb346cd70&language=en_US) among other places.
As noted, many people overseas have a more of a sense of history being "real" than Americans and the idea of "restoring lost glory" is neither new or unique.
BehindBlueI's
10-24-2019, 05:24 PM
Haven't looked for more recent info, but this article from 10 September 2016 sums up some of the theories and sources:
Why Did the Terrorists Choose September 11? (https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/09/10/why-did-the-terrorists-choose-september-11/1/)
"It was on September 11 1683 that the conquering armies of Islam were met, held, and thrown back at the gates of Vienna," wrote Christopher Hitchens in Britain's The Guardian less than a month after the attacks.
That's the Vanity Fair guy I was thinking of earlier and couldn't remember the name of.
A However, I find a plethora of theories and a dearth of "letter from Bin Laden" saying it flat out as I thought existed.
I did find a reference to Lawrence Wright's book "The Looming Tower" where I suspected I'd originally seen it but his treatment was also a supposition.
I think the correlation is strong but I cannot point to a reference for the horse's mouth.
I haven't read that particular book, but that's the same conclusion I came to last time I looked into this. Theory, generally stemming from Hitchens' work, but no facts to back it up. If it was a PR move, why didn't Bin Laden or the others cite it?
We get the "Letter to America" from Bin Laden, and he doesn't list it as a motive. (Full translation here for those interested: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver ) He lists a wide variety of "charges" from Supporting Israel, supporting or standing by during "atrocities" against various Muslim groups, all the way down to smut peddling and refusing to sign Kyoto, but no mention of the Ottomans being wronged. A passing reference to the Crusades at the end is the only "non-current" charge, and even that is just saying Bush's Crusade will end like the others, you'll lose.
The Looming Tower (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=as_li_ss_tl?k=the+looming+tower&crid=37QJT4NJFEKC3&sprefix=The+looming,aps,135&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_11&linkCode=ll2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=73d68d6da29a640c62725e7cb346cd70&language=en_US) is a highly acclaimed book on the topic of the long path to 9/11.
scjbash
10-24-2019, 06:17 PM
The Looming Tower (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=as_li_ss_tl?k=the+looming+tower&crid=37QJT4NJFEKC3&sprefix=The+looming,aps,135&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_11&linkCode=ll2&tag=ratio07-20&linkId=73d68d6da29a640c62725e7cb346cd70&language=en_US)is a highly acclaimed book on the topic of the long path to 9/11.
It's a great read for anyone interested in the subject.
willie
10-24-2019, 06:43 PM
Maybe 911 had more to do with airline schedules than anything else. McVeigh should have been put in an electric chair. The chaplain sitting up with him should have been telling him that he was going to hell despite his best efforts, and that they got an executioner from Florida to operate the chair, and, yes, it will hurt.
SiriusBlunder
10-24-2019, 09:55 PM
<snip>
If it was a PR move, why didn't Bin Laden or the others cite it?
<snip>
I never bought into Hitchens's theory because of the reason you mention, but even more so, because I think OBL would have used the Islamic calendar, not the Gregorian.
That's the Vanity Fair guy I was thinking of earlier and couldn't remember the name of.
You must have a mental blindspot for assholes.
I’ll PM you my name in case you forget it.
It's a great read for anyone interested in the subject.
I should mention that when I said long path, I was not referring to the actions/non-actions of various American administrations although there is info on that.
It's also about the growth of the ideology (political Islam as Zuhdi Jasser would term it I'd say) after the Ottoman empire's last caliph collapsed, but really picks up in the post WW II time frame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Looming_Tower
LittleLebowski
10-25-2019, 08:38 AM
Finishing up the movie now. They seemed to have taken some care with the dialogue and writing.
Lex Luthier
10-25-2019, 09:14 AM
I hadn't heard of this show. I'll be sure to look it up.
Thanks!
BehindBlueI's
10-25-2019, 10:08 AM
You must have a mental blindspot for assholes.
I’ll PM you my name in case you forget it.
I'm much more likely to remember if it's accompanied by BBQ restaurant recommendations.
Zincwarrior
10-25-2019, 10:20 AM
Free on Prime. I hope that it doesn’t suck. I’m fifteen minutes into it and seeing a lot of (necessary) CGI. Otherwise, not bad.
https://amzn.to/2JhcYHa
43973
Its pretty good. Its a bit propagandist for Poland but
1. Its accurate in that regard. Poland really did save the West.
2. Its Poland. Come on world lets cut Poland some slack. They are on the expressway invasion route between Russia and Europe.
The Hussar charges are epic. I really like the costumes and differing armor and weapons.
Crow Hunter
10-25-2019, 11:33 AM
Its pretty good. Its a bit propagandist for Poland but
1. Its accurate in that regard. Poland really did save the West.
2. Its Poland. Come on world lets cut Poland some slack. They are on the expressway invasion route between Russia and Europe.
The Hussar charges are epic. I really like the costumes and differing armor and weapons.
I really enjoyed it. It wasn't super polished Hollywierd epic but it was still really, really good.
I saw it on Netflix several years ago and told a friend about it here at work whose grandfather was in the Polish Resistance in WWII as a young man before coming to the US. She went home and watched it with him and she said that was the most animated she had seen him in her memory. He apparently got a real dose of patriotism out of it. She was afraid he was going to have a coronary. :)
She really enjoyed it too. I had noticed she had the Polish Anchor tattooed on her wrist and that is how I got to know about her Grandfather.
I also personally dig the Hussar armor even though I have no Polish ancestry at all.
MolonLabe416
10-25-2019, 03:39 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rcYhYO02f98
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rcYhYO02f98
https://youtu.be/rcYhYO02f98
https://youtu.be/X8zCv0AHnCs
BehindBlueI's
10-25-2019, 08:43 PM
https://youtu.be/X8zCv0AHnCs
With a mustache like that, you KNOW he's going to win. Him and Sam Elliot would conquer any given movie world.
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