Favorite 9mm training ammo?

[pew_pew]

And why?

[Joe in PNG]

Speer Lawman 147 TMJ. (https://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-147-gr-tmj-speer-lawman-1000-rounds)

1) The flat point makes nice, visible holes in targets.

2) It works. I've not had any of the problems with dead primers, out of round cases, squibs, ect that cheaper ammo can produce.

3) It's close to my normal 147 grn carry load (either HST or Gold Dot)

4) At $200 a case, it's not all that bad, price wise.

[ranger]

115 or 124 FMJ "pulls" or Bayou Coated Bullet reloaded over WSF or VVN320 or similar powders, range pickup brass, whatever small pistol primer is cheap/available. Loaded on my Dillon 550. Why - cheap and I actually like reloading. I leave the press setup and I reload 1000 at a time during the week - always have plenty on hand. Most of my shooting friends leave their brass on ground so "unlimited" 9mm brass. I buy projectiles when on sale by the thousand or by the "USPS box full" for reduced shipping costs.

[revchuck38]

It's a toss-up between S&B 124-grain FMJ and Winchester NATO-spec 124-grain FMJ. They're accurate, reliable, and reasonably cheap (~$180/case delivered) if you look and take advantage of coupon codes and/or sales. POI is the same as my carry ammo, 124-grain +P HST. I've shot both in low-light classes and the NATO-spec stuff is pretty low flash, better than S&B in this regard.

[Cypher]

Blazer Brass. I carry Speer Gold Dots and unless I misunderstand they're made by the same company so they should have similar performance characteristics.

The Blazer is cheap

[rd62]

I typically use Blazer Brass too. Its inexpensive, readily available in my area, and reliable in my pistols. Ive taken a couple of classes with it and can't recall any ammo related failures with it.

[JBP55]

Range 147gr. American Eagle
Carry 147gr. HST
Never had an issue with either which I purchase by the case.

[HJB]

I usually buy Winchester 115 grain because I can sometimes get it for 17 or 18 cents a round on sale at Academy after I pay sales tax

But last week I bought 2000 rounds of Blazer Brass on line (1000 115 grain and 1000 g147 grain), because there was free shipping and no sales tax. The 115 grain was 17 cents a round and the 147 grain was 18 cents a round. A little cheaper than I can buy at Academy.

I did notice the nice little round holes with the 147 grain compared to the keyholes with the 115 grain...what's with that ?

[BobM]

American Eagle 124 grain if I can get a good deal. I've also bought a fair amount of the 200 rd Federal aluminum case packs that Walmart used to sell.

[miller_man]

Sellier&Bellot 115gr.

About $190 shipped from SGA or occasionally about $169 with free shipping when brownells has on sale.

Great accuracy, pretty clean burning and stupid reliable. Think I'm probably around 10-12 cases and don't recall a single ammo problem. Might be just a bit hotter than other bargain stuff - but re - stupid reliable.

[RevolverRob]

Whatever is cheap and shoots best in the gun in question.

I’ve honestly never fired a 9mm factory load that was “inaccurate” in a gun that had good mechanical accuracy. And aside from hard primers in cheap stuff like Tul/Wolf I’ve never had anything not go bang.

For many, many, many years I ran Winchester White Box 115-grain or Blazer Aluminum case 115. I don’t have the logbook in front of me, but one of my guns has ~10,000 rounds of each of those two through it, plus a similar amount of 115 Prvi Partizan in it.

These days I run 147-grain American Eagle or Lawman to match the 147-grain HSTs I use. But I’m not too worried if all I have is 115-grain range fodder. It is, what it is.

[DC_P]

Range 147gr. American Eagle
Carry 147gr. HST
Never had an issue with either which I purchase by the case.

Ditto. Nearly identical characteristics.

[HopetonBrown]

Blazer Brass. I carry Speer Gold Dots and unless I misunderstand they're made by the same company so they should have similar performance characteristics.

The Blazer is cheapYou're confusing Blazer with Speer Lawman.

[GJM]

PMC 115/124 or American Eagle 115 for practice. Cheap and accurate.

Federal Syntech 150 for matches, especially in polymer pistols. Knocks steel over, very light recoil.

Lawman 124 TMJ if you are trying to control your lead level, but it is snappier than anything above.

[Clay1]

Blazer Brass for me, but recently added a comp to a build and running that with Winchester Nato 124 Q4318. The Nato round runs the comp nicely.

[JSGlock34]

Pretty much this...


Range 147gr. American Eagle
Carry 147gr. HST
Never had an issue with either which I purchase by the case.

and this...


Federal Syntech 150 for matches, especially in polymer pistols. Knocks steel over, very light recoil.

[Wake27]

I'm standardizing to Win NATO. Until then, it was whatever was cheapest but I've seen a few questionable rounds and have definitely had some poor accuracy (mostly with Freedom reman from many years ago, big surprise). I do primarily shoot a Roland so I like having a little extra power to cycle with the comp, but the only time I've had issues with weaker ammo not cycling was Remington UMC so its more for piece of mind than anything. Plus its not too expensive and if the world collapses and I run out of Gold Dots, I have more faith in it than the real cheap stuff.

[MGW]

Usually 147 Xtreme or Bayou bullets and Bullseye handloads. But in a pinch I like AE 115 or 124 factory stuff a lot.

[RevolverRob]

You're confusing Blazer with Speer Lawman.

CCI is owned/also owns Speer. In theory they load the Blazer Brass close to Gold Dot specs.

CCI still does a few loads of blazer aluminum with Gold Dots loaded in them. The classic one was .44 Special - https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001523065

[JAH 3rd]

Shot 150 rounds of Winchester NATO earlier this week. Shot it in my Beretta M9 civilian. 100% function with POA/POI for me. Barrel cleaned up nicely after soaking in Hoppes 9 for about 15 minutes or so. Some ammo can be described as dirty, some filthy. Cleaning my Beretta was not a chore by any means. I am satisfied with this ammo.

[HopetonBrown]

CCI is owned/also owns Speer. In theory they load the Blazer Brass close to Gold Dot specs.


Why does it matter that CCI owns Speer?

Whose theory that Blazer is loaded close to Gold Dot specs?

Lawman is billed to being similar to Speer's duty loadings, Blazer is sold as budget plinking ammo.

I'm sure you've shoot Blazer before, it's nowhere similar in recoil to Lawman and Gold Dot.




My experience suggests Lawman is equivalent power and accuracy to duty ammo, but loaded with ball at lower cost. Blazer brass is economy ammo and substantially less accurate for me.

[revchuck38]

CCI is owned/also owns Speer. In theory they load the Blazer Brass close to Gold Dot specs.

CCI still does a few loads of blazer aluminum with Gold Dots loaded in them. The classic one was .44 Special - https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001523065

I've chronoed 124-grain Blazer Brass and it ran about 1050 fps from my CZ-75B. IIRC, that's about 100 fps slower than standard velocity Gold Dot. OTOH, I've also chronoed the above .44 Special load in both Blazer and nickled brass versions from my M21-4, and the Blazer ran ~100 fps faster than the brass-cased ammo (900 fps vs. 800 fps). This stuff doesn't have to make sense.

I went through a 500-round box of 115-grain Blazer Brass and had several rounds leave dark gray streaks on the target where the rifling had apparently cut through the thin brass plating on the bullet. CCI was cutting corners a bit too much on that lot.

[WobblyPossum]

I generally use whatever brass cased ammo is the cheapest at the time I’m buying. I don’t care much about bullet weight as long as it functions. I tried Blazer Aluminum in 2018 and had some issues, mostly when combined with Magpul Glock magazines. I have been considering trying Tula steel cased though. It’s substantially cheaper than brass cased ammo and a good friend of mine goes through numerous cases of it every year and hasn’t had many issues outside of a periodic hard primer. I wouldn’t shoot it through my duty/carry guns, just my training gun.

[RevolverRob]

I'm sure you've shoot Blazer before, it's nowhere similar in recoil to Lawman and Gold Dot.

To be honest with you, because recoil feel is so subjective - no I haven’t actually noticed much difference. If bullet weights are the same between loads, they all feel about the same to me. I never really notice until I’m trying to shoot very fast. I’m far more likely to notice a difference in accuracy between loads.

The only differences I’ve ever noticed are moving to +P loads or down to powderpuff loads. Otherwise, pretty much all 9mm feels about the same to me, almost all the time. The loads are all very similar in many respects, and while I’ve found differences in defense vs. practice ammo - I really use the same POI/POA practice carry ammo, so I don’t need to re-zero my sights. Not because one is really superior to another.

If both loads hit to the sights the same, even ~100 fps isn’t going to make much difference in shooting. When we do the energy math, the differences in these loads are the types of energies a person can produce with their hands. 30-40 ft/lbs of muzzle energy for a few miliseconds doesn’t make much of a difference until you’re well on the otherside of the shooting skill spectrum.

Only accuracy differences matter. I’d have to look through my records for last time I shot 147-blazer to tell you accuracy differences. It has been a while since I’ve used that ammo. Mostly because my local sources carry AE/Lawman or Syntech.

[beenalongtime]

My favorite, I don't get often. Free.

Next, if I am shooting a new pistol, during its break in, I tend to try to buy 115 grain of whatever (seems a lot of American Eagle as I have caught sales/probably need some more). Once past that, I tend to want closer to the carry grain.

For full size guns, I have bought and shot 124 grain of whatever I can find (American Eagle, Winchester). Since I shoot non full size guns my hollowpoints tend to be 147, so they work in all size guns (budget). I have more 147 grain (American Eagle, Blazer brass) or (need some more) 150 grain Syntech, which I enjoy the less flash.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Usually WWB or Blazer Brass or Aluminum. Works and I wait for a good price to stock up. I'm not so techy a shooter that I worry about the weight of that and the SD ammo. I shoot the latter once in awhile in a match and don't see a difference as I'm not at the level of milliseconds. My accuracy seems fine. At the last match, I shot a mix of all kinds of stuff as I was cleaning out ammo for a move. WWB, Blazer, Speer, Hornady stuff - came in only 5 points down for a 5 stage match, so what do I know?

[Joe in PNG]

Of course, I'm running a 9mm 1911.
If there's any funny stuff, I want to know that it's the gun, not the ammo.

[Cypher]

You're confusing Blazer with Speer Lawman.

No I know the difference between the two but I am almost positive that it says on the Blazer box CCI /Speer. I don't happen to have a box handy right now but I will take a look tomorrow morning when I get home

[HopetonBrown]

No I know the difference between the two but I am almost positive that it says on the Blazer box CCI /Speer. I don't happen to have a box handy right now but I will take a look tomorrow morning when I get homeLawman is advertised as being similar to duty loads, Blazer is advertised as plinking ammo.

[Cypher]

Lawman is advertised as being similar to duty loads, Blazer is advertised as plinking ammo.

Let me say it this way. I'm not insisting that I'm right when I say that Blazer is made by Speer. I am saying that I know the difference between Blazer brass and Speer Lawman.

ETA I went and looked it up this is from a review of Blazer brass by Lucky Gunner


Blazer Brass loads are very similar to Speer Lawman ammunition which is predominantly used by the law enforcement community for range training. The CCI plant which producesseveral brands (CCI, Blazer, Blazer Brass, and Speer) is owned by ATK (the same company that owns Federal).

So according to that all three brands are made in the same factory

[HopetonBrown]

So according to that all three brands are made in the same factory

I'm not seeing why being made by the same company in the same factory means anything, but my personal experience is that Blazer is a poorer performer compared to Lawman and I try to avoid it. Lawman for me seems to be loaded hotter, and 25 yard accuracy seems better. I would never consider substituting Blazer for a defense load.

While I have your attention, consider posting your church SWAT team's qual, perhaps it could be used for drill of the week.

[Cypher]

I'm not seeing why being made by the same company in the same factory means anything, but my personal experience is that Blazer is a poorer performer compared to Lawman and I try to avoid it. Lawman for me seems to be loaded hotter, and 25 yard accuracy seems better. I would never consider substituting Blazer for a defense load.

Where did I ever say did I would use Blazer Brass as a defense load? Why would I be so foolish as use Hardball 9 mm as a defense load?

Maybe I'm out there but I'm going to guess that if they make them in the same Factory they very likely make them on the same machines. Because of that I'm going to guess that Blazer brass in general is going to perform closer to Speer Gold Dot then say Winchester White Box would. And unlike you I do have a little bit of manufacturing experience to base that opinion on.


While I have your attention, consider posting your church SWAT team's qual, perhaps it could be used for drill of the week.

Given you're being a horrendous bitch right now why would I want to do that?

[jetfire]

I'd like to say I have a standard practice ammo, but I usually just buy a lot of Federal American Eagle 115 grain for training. Sometimes 147 depending on the gun. I shoot Hornady Critical Defense exclusively for matches because the FTX bullet is hella accurate, moreso even than XTPs.

[Tom Duffy]

My default round is 147 grain Lawman. I bought a number of cases of Federal 115 grain Syntech because it has very light recoil (1130 fps). I thought it would be great for Steel Challenge. While it's accurate with my HK P30L, turns out it's very inaccurate with my Dan Wesson V-bob. Back to Lawman 147s as my standard as soon as I finish up the Syntech.

[Spartan1980]

115 or 124 FMJ "pulls" or Bayou Coated Bullet reloaded over WSF or VVN320 or similar powders, range pickup brass, whatever small pistol primer is cheap/available. Loaded on my Dillon 550. Why - cheap and I actually like reloading. I leave the press setup and I reload 1000 at a time during the week - always have plenty on hand. Most of my shooting friends leave their brass on ground so "unlimited" 9mm brass. I buy projectiles when on sale by the thousand or by the "USPS box full" for reduced shipping costs.

I like reloading too, there's just something about making your own quality ammo.


I'd like to say I have a standard practice ammo, but I usually just buy a lot of Federal American Eagle 115 grain for training. Sometimes 147 depending on the gun. I shoot Hornady Critical Defense exclusively for matches because the FTX bullet is hella accurate, moreso even than XTPs.

I really wish Hornady would make the FTX bullets available to reloaders.



For my practice/training/match ammo I've been running the ACME 122 NLG and 147 coated flat points. I'm moving to Precision Delta 124 JHPs because they mimic the Hornady XTP, at least in my guns I can't really tell any difference. With the base not having any exposed lead they smoke less. My new favorite powder is BE-86.

With the pricing of 9mm factory bulk these days it's getting hard to justify loading your own but I enjoy it so I'll likely continue. Other calibers make more sense from a monetary view.

[Wake27]

FYI the great Chuck Pressburg recently said Lawman 124 is his favorite practice ammo. Then he said that he likes Magtech 124 as well, and Blazer will work in a pinch but that lead him into a rabbit hole about how tolerance stacking can work for or against you and basically ended up saying Blazer will not be too consistent.


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[0ddl0t]

I shoot whatever is on sale, though all else equal I prefer S&B or Fiocchi to Federal Champion/Rem UMC/Win White Box/Blazer. Remington UMC actually groups about as well as anything, it is just so dirty... Federal Champion probably groups the worst, but it is (was) as cheap as anything and readily available at Walmart...

[JHC]

Sellier&Bellot 115gr.

About $190 shipped from SGA or occasionally about $169 with free shipping when brownells has on sale.

Great accuracy, pretty clean burning and stupid reliable. Think I'm probably around 10-12 cases and don't recall a single ammo problem. Might be just a bit hotter than other bargain stuff - but re - stupid reliable.

Same here.

[CWM11B]

I use Speer Lawman or AE 147gr TMJ for practice, whichever is available. 147 standard Gold Dot is my carry, and both loads are a fair analogue to the duty round. I have shot thousands of all three loads, and in my former life typically bought (with other people's money :D ) about 250,000 thousand ball and 60-75k of GDHP per year. I saw millions of rounds go down range with no issues. I stay away from Winchester. During the ammo drought a few years back I bought 100k of 147 WWB for our transition. EVERY 50 round box had at least 4 rounds that didnt fire. Some had 10. I had the same issue with a 250 round case of 124gr I got from PSA. First box I opened had four failures to fire.

[psalms144.1]

M882 - because it's free! I'd love a training load that replicates my carry 147, but, free beats any price I've found on the internet lately...

[Darth_Uno]

I use Speer Lawman or AE 147gr TMJ for practice, whichever is available. 147 standard Gold Dot is my carry, and both loads are a fair analogue to the duty round. I have shot thousands of all three loads, and in my former life typically bought (with other people's money :D ) about 250,000 thousand ball and 60-75k of GDHP per year. I saw millions of rounds go down range with no issues. I stay away from Winchester. During the ammo drought a few years back I bought 100k of 147 WWB for our transition. EVERY 50 round box had at least 4 rounds that didnt fire. Some had 10. I had the same issue with a 250 round case of 124gr I got from PSA. First box I opened had four failures to fire.

I bought 1000 rounds of Winchester 124 gr NATO. I soldiered through but had multiple FTFires. Hard primers I suspect. This was also through multiple mostly stock Glocks, so it wasn’t just one gun doing this.

I will say, POA/POI was comparable to 124 gr Hornady XTP, but so is 124 Fiocchi without all the drama.


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[Wake27]

Interesting. I had a few FTFs in my last mags of the Win Nato, but all of my springs were needing replacement so I attributed it to that. Maybe I will lean towards Lawman then.

[Medusa]

Lawman 115. Clean, reliable, accurate, similar to my carry ammo, affordable.

[revchuck38]

I bought 1000 rounds of Winchester 124 gr NATO. I soldiered through but had multiple FTFires. Hard primers I suspect. This was also through multiple mostly stock Glocks, so it wasn’t just one gun doing this.

I will say, POA/POI was comparable to 124 gr Hornady XTP, but so is 124 Fiocchi without all the drama.


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Winchester's NATO-spec stuff does have hard primers but should run unless you've been playing with your ignition system. My three PX4s love it and they actually have reduced-power hammer springs. My P99C loves it too, and it's striker-fired. Ditto with my Sig P6.

[JAD]

S&B has been the most consistent in both 9 and 45, over the years and within each box. Lawman is ok but I do have an irrational preference for jacketed rather than plated practice bullets, probably a hangover from reloading.

I’ve also had really good luck with Geco, both the ‘90s vintage German stuff and the recent Hungarian loads.

[revchuck38]

JAD - Have you chronographed the Hungarian Geco stuff? I’m open to new sources and it’s attractively priced.

[JAD]

JAD - Have you chronographed the Hungarian Geco stuff? I’m open to new sources and it’s attractively priced.

No, just shot a couple cases and dug it. I can recommend if.

[45dotACP]

I teens towards being a fan of Lawman pretty much anything. That said, I was just playing around and shot a WHO group at 20 yards with some S&B and was impressed. It wasn't a fluke either. The ammo is quite accurate in my 1911shttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191022/10497871b0fc830ef146642dc7782358.jpg

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[Cypher]

I teens towards being a fan of Lawman pretty much anything. That said, I was just playing around and shot a WHO group at 20 yards with some S&B and was impressed. It wasn't a fluke either. The ammo is quite accurate in my 1911shttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191022/10497871b0fc830ef146642dc7782358.jpg

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WHO ?

[JRV]

WHO ?

Weak Hand Only

[JAH 3rd]

Winchester's NATO-spec stuff does have hard primers but should run unless you've been playing with your ignition system. My three PX4s love it and they actually have reduced-power hammer springs. My P99C loves it too, and it's striker-fired. Ditto with my Sig P6.

My Beretta M9 civilian is completely stock save for the "D" trigger spring that replaced the stock one. Runs 100% in my M9 with all ammo, never a misfire with any ammo.

[0ddl0t]

Win NATO had the only FTF out of ~12,000+ rounds fired in my P365. Primer showed a decent hit, but apparently not enough to ignite. The other 149 Winchester NATO rounds fired fine...

43923

[JRV]

The most accurate (FMJ) ammunition I have shot in the past three years, particularly out of my Glock 19, has been GECO 124gr. It's pretty hot, but it feels shy of NATO spec or +P. I think they might use a long (6-7") test barrel for velocity figures.

For softer shooting, and better recoil characteristics in my Commander, I shoot 124 gr Federal AE.

Both have been exceedingly reliable and shoot to POA. No ignition issues.

Both are stupid cheap.

[jetfire]

Win NATO had the only FTF out of ~12,000+ rounds fired in my P365. Primer showed a decent hit, but apparently not enough to ignite. The other 149 Winchester NATO rounds fired fine...

43923

We had a bad lot number of Winchester produced training ammo at work not too long ago. Dozens of dead rounds that not even the fearsome mainspring of a military issue M9 could crack.

[Shades]

I can't tell much difference among the various 115/124gr ball ammo I have and have shot. The only FMJ ammo I have that is noticeably louder/snappier is some Federal-produced M882 (boxes have stickers that say "Factory seconds"). They are almost identical in report and recoil to Speer GD 124gr +P. I have some Win NATO stuff but haven't had a chance to shoot any yet. The rest - WWB, Fed AE, Speer Lawman (124gr.), Fiocchi, Blazer Brass - all seem much the same. I haven't had any issues with any of them either, which may just have been good luck, judging from some others' experiences.

[Medusa]

I used to use a lot of Fiocchi, but it chronoed slow out of one of my Px4CC (too slow even given the shorter barrel ) and sometimes was requiring second hits to knock down steel even with adequate to good first hits. That’s why I went to lawman.

[revchuck38]

I used to use a lot of Fiocchi, but it chronoed slow out of one of my Px4CC (too slow even given the shorter barrel ) and sometimes was requiring second hits to knock down steel even with adequate to good first hits. That’s why I went to lawman.

Which bullet weight? IME, 124-grain stuff seems to be more reliable on steel than the 115-grain versions and generally gives a higher power factor. S&B 124-grain ammo runs about 1100 fps from my full-size PX4 and not much less from my 3.5" P99C. Independence 124-grain ammo runs about the same from the PX4, haven't chronoed it from the Walther.

[paherne]

We had a bad lot number of Winchester produced training ammo at work not too long ago. Dozens of dead rounds that not even the fearsome mainspring of a military issue M9 could crack.

Did you scrap the whole lot, or press on and practice malfunction drills? I have had bad luck with Win duty ammo and 5.56 ball in the early 2000s. But, with the war on terror raging, we bought what we could get. Rem UMC was crap then, too. But, when it's either crap ammo, or no ammo, well, you get the idea.

I think ammo availability is much better, currently. I was able to get 10 k of 124 grain Lawman in about 4 days when we ran low on practice ammo this week.

[Medusa]

Which bullet weight? IME, 124-grain stuff seems to be more reliable on steel than the 115-grain versions and generally gives a higher power factor. S&B 124-grain ammo runs about 1100 fps from my full-size PX4 and not much less from my 3.5" P99C. Independence 124-grain ammo runs about the same from the PX4, haven't chronoed it from the Walther.

It was 115, which is my customary weight, and the weight of the lawman with which I replaced it. The lawman gave me 138 pf as noted above from a full-size LTT. I shoot 124 lawman when training at the range which requires you to run it and buy it there (which happens to be where Mr. White holds court) but otherwise 115.

[jetfire]

Did you scrap the whole lot, or press on and practice malfunction drills? I have had bad luck with Win duty ammo and 5.56 ball in the early 2000s. But, with the war on terror raging, we bought what we could get. Rem UMC was crap then, too. But, when it's either crap ammo, or no ammo, well, you get the idea.

I think ammo availability is much better, currently. I was able to get 10 k of 124 grain Lawman in about 4 days when we ran low on practice ammo this week.

We just pressed on with training. It was rough because we were using the ammo for base pop qualifications.

[MDFA]

Range 147gr. American Eagle
Carry 147gr. HST
Never had an issue with either which I purchase by the case.

Same POA/POI both rounds run my Gen 5 19 with Comp and my Gen 3 17 with Comp without spring changes as well. Not a single malfunction with either round in either pistol.

[spence]

Geco 115 or 124 gr
Fiocchi 115 gr
S&B 115 or 124 gr
UMC 115 gr

Those are my usual go to loads. They tend to be some of the cheapest, they function very well, and shoot accurately in my pistols.
I don't have any qualms with

Magtech 115/124
Aguila 115
Winchester NATO
Federal Champion

When the price is right. That's pretty much all the flavors that have been through my Beretta. It has not been picky with much of anything, at least out to 25 yards. I seem to get far more drop from it beyond that, but that's another topic.

[NWshooter]

Sellier&Bellot 124 gr or Blazer Brass 124 gr

Get it for $180 a case at LGS and no waiting or shipping costs.

[Up1911Fan]

I like 147gr Lawman, AE is good too.

[Olim9]

I like S&B and even GECO 124gr. They’re both loaded a tad hotter than most 9mm, burn clean and they come in small boxes. The S&B is great especially for newbies because it says “9MM Para, 9mm Luger, 9x19” on the side to help clarify it for them.

I carry Federal 147gr HST and as logical as it may seem to use 147gr AE, it shoots way too soft for me and I prefer Lawman 147gr as a result since it seems to be just as hot as any Lawman ammo.

[David S.]

Last year I shot four or five cases of AE147 with no problems.

This year I’ll be experimenting with Fenix 147g. A bit slower and lighter recoil than the AE stuff. I like it so far.

[spence]

I like S&B and even GECO 124gr. They’re both loaded a tad hotter than most 9mm, burn clean and they come in small boxes. The S&B is great especially for newbies because it says “9MM Para, 9mm Luger, 9x19” on the side to help clarify it for them.

I carry Federal 147gr HST and as logical as it may seem to use 147gr AE, it shoots way too soft for me and I prefer Lawman 147gr as a result since it seems to be just as hot as any Lawman ammo.


Geco and S&B also seem to have less report and flash than some of the others. Very mild shooting. Though I was a little disappointed how the Geco chronographed.

[ST911]

Last year I shot four or five cases of AE147 with no problems. This year I’ll be experimenting with Fenix 147g. A bit slower and lighter recoil than the AE stuff. I like it so far.

Slower and lighter than the original AE147, or the newer version? See: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?33947

[David S.]

Slower and lighter than the original AE147, or the newer version? See: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?33947
New. I had no issues with it and would be just fine using it again.

According to Lucky Gunner, AE147 runs 1,000 FPS. FENIX 147g runs just under 900 FPS.

Not a huge difference in recoil, but noticeable.

[JonInWA]

Sellier & Bellot 124 gr, American Eagle 124 gr-both excellent, but the S&B is my preference-clean, accurate, on the spicier side-more analogous to my carry load(s)( Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P. Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr, Federal Tactical 124 gr +P) and minimizes potential IDPA power factor floor problems.

Best, Jon

[JBP55]

I like S&B and even GECO 124gr. They’re both loaded a tad hotter than most 9mm, burn clean and they come in small boxes. The S&B is great especially for newbies because it says “9MM Para, 9mm Luger, 9x19” on the side to help clarify it for them.

I carry Federal 147gr HST and as logical as it may seem to use 147gr AE, it shoots way too soft for me and I prefer Lawman 147gr as a result since it seems to be just as hot as any Lawman ammo.

147gr. American Eagle: Velocity 1,000 Energy 326
147gr. Lawman: Velocity 985 Energy 317

[jd950]

147gr. American Eagle: Velocity 1,000 Energy 326
147gr. Lawman: Velocity 985 Energy 317

This seems odd to me. I have never tested any of this, but to me, Lawman always feels "hotter" in any given loading than does AE. Perhaps it has something to do with burn rate and barrel length? Mostly I shoot 3-3.9" 9mm guns with an occasional 4.5"

Or maybe it is just a subjective thing with me.

[ssb]

I've been using a lot of Blazer Brass 147gr. It's reasonably accurate from my Gen 5 19s (sub-3" at least, probably better if I could shoot), is close to POI with HSTs, and I get it for about .18/round delivered. Lately that's been my stockpiling load as I burn up the various 115gr fodder I came into.

[Olim9]

This seems odd to me. I have never tested any of this, but to me, Lawman always feels "hotter" in any given loading than does AE. Perhaps it has something to do with burn rate and barrel length? Mostly I shoot 3-3.9" 9mm guns with an occasional 4.5"

Or maybe it is just a subjective thing with me.

No, it’s the same for me. Sure, the velocities might be the same but I remember when I went through 3 cases of AE 147gr and was vetting a pistol with 147gr HST I noticed the HST was much hotter than the ball ammo I was practicing with. Wasn’t the end of the world but I do feel the 147gr Lawman to be hotter than AE.

[JBP55]

No, it’s the same for me. Sure, the velocities might be the same but I remember when I went through 3 cases of AE 147gr and was vetting a pistol with 147gr HST I noticed the HST was much hotter than the ball ammo I was practicing with. Wasn’t the end of the world but I do feel the 147gr Lawman to be hotter than AE.

The standard pressure 147gr. HST and 147gr AE are equally rated in Energy and Velocity.

[JHC]

For many cases it’s been S&B 115.

But lately I tried out a few hundred rounds of Winchester M17 115 flat point fmj sold in 150 round boxes and marketed as the new milspec I guess.

It has appeared competitive with S&B for precision but it feels a good bit hotter. More so than Lawman perhaps.

[revchuck38]

JHC - I chronographed that stuff and it came in around 1230 fps IIRC.

[JHC]

JHC - I chronographed that stuff and it came in around 1230 fps IIRC.

Yeah baby! I almost posted it felt +P. GJM there's a flat point bear skull buster ah gaaaroonteee. ;)

[revchuck38]

JHC - I chronographed that stuff and it came in around 1230 fps IIRC.

Here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?36266-M1152-amp-M1153-9mm-Loads-Info&p=946725&viewfull=1#post946725) is where I posted it.

[JHC]

Here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?36266-M1152-amp-M1153-9mm-Loads-Info&p=946725&viewfull=1#post946725) is where I posted it.

From the pics up in that thread, I think the stuff I've bought from Academy has a larger meplat. Not dead certain, don't have any in front of me right now.

[Casey]

Been shooting quite a bit of PMC Bronze 115gr over the past year and a half after hearing Langdon recommend it in class. Super soft-shooting and fairly accurate, and SGA was selling it for stupid cheap for quite a while there. My old go-to for class ammo has been AE9FP 147gr. Not impressed with the recent production stuff—it's a bit hotter and closer in feel to 147gr HST, but it seems like I'm averaging 1-2 dud rounds per case with good primer strikes, which I can't remember ever happening with the older stuff.

[JSGlock34]

My old go-to for class ammo has been AE9FP 147gr. Not impressed with the recent production stuff—it's a bit hotter and closer in feel to 147gr HST, but it seems like I'm averaging 1-2 dud rounds per case with good primer strikes, which I can't remember ever happening with the older stuff.

This is concerning considering I still use this ammunition frequently.

[Casey]

This is concerning considering I still use this ammunition frequently.
I find it annoying, but considering I only shoot this ammo during practice, it’s not the end of the world.

[fwrun]

Funny you say that about the new-manufacture Federal stuff. In the last 400 rounds (2020 manufacture date), I've had 8 duds. Zero in the previous 13,000.

[Clay1]

Funny you say that about the new-manufacture Federal stuff. In the last 400 rounds (2020 manufacture date), I've had 8 duds. Zero in the previous 13,000.

Federal makes a lot of ammo, what specific ammo are you using?

[fwrun]

Clay1, The same type of ammo the previous user mentioned using... AE9FP.

[Clay1]

@Clay1 (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=11908), The same type of ammo the previous user mentioned using... AE9FP.

Sorry man, I must be slow today. Just received some Syntech Action Pistol to alleviate some striker impacts that don't go boom with Q4318 (Winchester Nato round). I'm overly sensitive to ammo that doesn't work since it's causing me too many issues at matches and leagues.

[fwrun]

Sorry man, I must be slow today. Just received some Syntech Action Pistol to alleviate some striker impacts that don't go boom with Q4318 (Winchester Nato round). I'm overly sensitive to ammo that doesn't work since it's causing me too many issues at matches and leagues.

No big deal! On Monday, I'll be purchasing a few cases of the 150gr Action Pistol Syntech load for match use as a result of these new lots of AE9FP sucking. I made the mistake of trusting it would be the same old product with a new box, and it cost me at match. A part of me can't help but wonder if it's by design on Federal's part to drop the quality of the AE products to sell more of the "USPSA Official Match Ammo."

[M2CattleCo]

I just got in 10 cases of Speer Lawman 147.

I've used this stuff for years and had one bad round that wouldn't light.

I've had most issues with Winchester. White box 115 and their NATO have always had a mangled case mouth, backwards bullets, sideways primer, something in every case.

[JBP55]

I have never had an issue with American Eagle or Lawman.

[Old Virginia]

Fiocchi, American Eagle and my Beretta Nano's and Kahr love Wolf 115 gr. At $6.43 with fee shipping to my door, I am not complaining and it shoots just fine.

[spinmove_]

Speer Lawman. I like to run Gold Dots as my carry ammo of choice and lately I’ve been running 124gr for a while. My latest shipment is of the 147gr variety as it’s been a while since I’ve shot it and wanted to see if I could tell a difference, and if yes, how big a difference.

[Hot Cereal]

I typically shoot whatever is cheapest. I prefer brass case. I tend to like the Speer Lawman, Winchester NATO, Fiocchi stuff. The prices for 9mm seem to have increased slightly. Not long ago I remember seeing the brass cased ammo going for $.16-$.18 per round and now it seems the prices have slightly climbed to $.18-$20 per.

[Medusa]

Speer Lawman. I like to run Gold Dots as my carry ammo of choice and lately I’ve been running 124gr for a while. My latest shipment is of the 147gr variety as it’s been a while since I’ve shot it and wanted to see if I could tell a difference, and if yes, how big a difference.


I’ll be interested in your thoughts on this. I considered ordering some 147 but just waited for 115 to be back in stock (I carry 115 gold dot now). just ordered another 4,000 of the 115 since availability from my preferred vendor seems to vary.

[spinmove_]

I’ll be interested in your thoughts on this. I considered ordering some 147 but just waited for 115 to be back in stock (I carry 115 gold dot now). just ordered another 4,000 of the 115 since availability from my preferred vendor seems to vary.

There’s definitely going to be a difference going from 115 to 147. 115 is rather “poppy” while the 147 is going to feel less snappy and slightly more pushy.

124 to 147 does feel different, but not quite as much so. I’ve only shot around 50 rounds of it as I just used up the last of my 124 in the same match, but if I had to describe it, the 124 feels like it returns faster yet slightly snappier. The 147 feels slightly slower yet less snappy and slightly more pushy.

The difference is rather slight IMHO and isn’t really enough to make me like one over the other just yet, but need more 147 down range to determine that.

As a side note, 115gr Gold Dot isn’t on the list and for good reason. I’d recommend re-evaluating and choosing a heavier variety.

[Medusa]

There’s definitely going to be a difference going from 115 to 147. 115 is rather “poppy” while the 147 is going to feel less snappy and slightly more pushy.

124 to 147 does feel different, but not quite as much so. I’ve only shot around 50 rounds of it as I just used up the last of my 124 in the same match, but if I had to describe it, the 124 feels like it returns faster yet slightly snappier. The 147 feels slightly slower yet less snappy and slightly more pushy.

The difference is rather slight IMHO and isn’t really enough to make me like one over the other just yet, but need more 147 down range to determine that.

As a side note, 115gr Gold Dot isn’t on the list and for good reason. I’d recommend re-evaluating and choosing a heavier variety.

Yes I have fired 115, 124, pretty fair quantities of both, and 147, not much. I didn’t like the 147 I tried, Blazer brass case flat point. Inaccurate and different poi in my weapon. I was interested in your thoughts on lawman 147 versus lawman 115 or 124.

i shoot a lot of 115 lawman. 115 gd performs the same. I have carefully considered my ammo selection over a course of many years and am comfortable with 115.

[45dotACP]

Yes I have fired 115, 124, pretty fair quantities of both, and 147, not much. I didn’t like the 147 I tried, Blazer brass case flat point. Inaccurate and different poi in my weapon. I was interested in your thoughts on lawman 147 versus lawman 115 or 124.

i shoot a lot of 115 lawman. 115 gd performs the same. I have carefully considered my ammo selection over a course of many years and am comfortable with 115.

I've never been too wild about the blazer ammo...any of it. For burning up ammo on fast, close range target' it is acceptable (but in that case, really whatever is cheap is acceptable) however if I'm working a set of drills with a tighter accuracy standard I'll go with either AE 124 grain or 147 grain, or Speer Lawman 115 or 147 grain. It mostly depends on what is available.

I think the 147gr Lawman is pretty good stuff. A lot of my ammo choice depends on what my gun likes best, but I've found it to be about on par with the American Eagle 147 and about as accurate as the 115 grain lawman, which I've found to be some of the best shooting commercially available 9mm I've used. You may still experience shift in POI however. If given the choice between the three different weights of Lawman however, I'd go either 115 or 147 personally.

[frozentundra]

147 Lawman if I can find it at a good price. I carry 147 HST.

I like the TMJ bullet construction of Lawman ammunition for health reasons, so I'll usually buy Lawman of some type if it's cheap enough.

Otherwise I'll buy any reputable 9mm brass cased ammo that happens to be selling really, really cheap at the time I happen to be buying.

[spinmove_]

Yes I have fired 115, 124, pretty fair quantities of both, and 147, not much. I didn’t like the 147 I tried, Blazer brass case flat point. Inaccurate and different poi in my weapon. I was interested in your thoughts on lawman 147 versus lawman 115 or 124.

i shoot a lot of 115 lawman. 115 gd performs the same. I have carefully considered my ammo selection over a course of many years and am comfortable with 115.

I tried a case or two of Blazer Brass. Wasn’t impressed and wasn’t worth the cost savings. You’ll generally get different POI between bullet weights and brands. Just the nature of the beast.

[blues]

I tried a case or two of Blazer Brass. Wasn’t impressed and wasn’t worth the cost savings. You’ll generally get different POI between bullet weights and brands. Just the nature of the beast.

When I got my G19 back from the mother ship in Smyrna in 2017, I ran a box of Blazer Brass through it and I thought for sure I had to send it back. Fortunately, once I ran some real ammo through it, it was right as rain again.

Probably a bad box but it was enough to put me off.

[spinmove_]

When I got my G19 back from the mother ship in Smyrna in 2017, I ran a box of Blazer Brass through it and I thought for sure I had to send it back. Fortunately, once I ran some real ammo through it, it was right as rain again.

Probably a bad box but it was enough to put me off.

The case I shot last year was just horrible at 25 yards. Groups were easily 20-30% bigger. Won’t be doing that again. I’ll stick with Lawman.

[Casey]

Target Sports USA is doing a Prime-like deal where you get free shipping on all ammo plus 8% off, for $95 annually. I typically order two cases at a time, and this will pay for itself within three orders (they already provide free shipping for cases of ammo, but you don't get the additional savings). SGAmmo has been my go-to for some time, but lately Target Sports has had slightly better deals (albeit not quite as big a selection).

[Clay1]

I ran 15 thousand rounds of Blazer in a single season and had Zero issues. The only reason that I am not running it today is that I am shooting a gun with a compensatior and shoot a NATO round with the comp.

[fwrun]

Target Sports USA is doing a Prime-like deal where you get free shipping on all ammo plus 8% off, for $95 annually. I typically order two cases at a time, and this will pay for itself within three orders (they already provide free shipping for cases of ammo, but you don't get the additional savings). SGAmmo has been my go-to for some time, but lately Target Sports has had slightly better deals (albeit not quite as big a selection).

Conveniently after Super Tuesday, the price of Blazer 147 went up $20 a case. They also went up $10 a case for Blazer 115 and 124, as well a AE 115 and 124. In January, AE9FP went up $10 a case too.

On Monday a case of Blazer 147 arrived that was $165 before tax. Pisses me off that election season starts ramping up and it goes to $184 over night. I'm on pace to hit 5 figures in ammo this year, and if the price increases remain, I'd save over 1k this year by swapping to Fenix bulk 9mm. Decisions...

[JSGlock34]

Tried some Syntech Match 147 grain for the first time today. No issues. You won't confuse this with the soft shooting 150 grain Syntech Action Pistol load - it is definitely loaded to be closer to HST. I need to directly compare it to AE 147 grain.

[Midnight Hour]

Anybody know why nearly all 9mm FMJ target ammo that you see out there is 115gr? There are several different bullet weights available in 9mm for self defense loads, i.e., 124gr., 130gr., 147gr., etc. as well as different bullet weights available for FMJ target ammo in other calibers like .38spl but 9mm is always 115gr.

I think it would be preferable to have a training load that is closer to your chosen SD load and for many carrying a 9mm that is usually a heavier bullet then 115gr.

[fwrun]

Most manufacturers focus on 115gr because it requires less lead, and is therefore cheaper for them. Online retailers have made 115, 124, 147, 150, etc. 9mm ammo easily accessible.

[deflave]

Anybody know why nearly all 9mm FMJ target ammo that you see out there is 115gr? There are several different bullet weights available in 9mm for self defense loads, i.e., 124gr., 130gr., 147gr., etc. as well as different bullet weights available for FMJ target ammo in other calibers like .38spl but 9mm is always 115gr.

I think it would be preferable to have a training load that is closer to your chosen SD load and for many carrying a 9mm that is usually a heavier bullet then 115gr.

Because most people that want cheap ammo want the cheapest ammo possible.

It cost more to make heavier weight bullets.

[Midnight Hour]

Because most people that want cheap ammo want the cheapest ammo possible.

It cost more to make heavier weight bullets.I didn't specify that the ammo had to be the cheapest possible. There are varying differences between quality and price of 9mm target ammo as with anything else but for some reason 9mm is only available in 115gr. in most shops. This is not the case with .38spl or other target loads. Even .380acp FMJ can be had anywhere between 90gr. to 100gr.

[sqeeler]

Our tribe runs ALOT of S&B 115gr fmj and we found it works great out of the Gen5 Glocks and my daughters 2 M&P shields along with our 9mm pcc's. Recently tried some Herters 115gr fmj and seems ok so far, not as accurate as the S&B in our stuff but also seems hotter. The price of the Herters is almost $3 a box cheaper in my area so may have to do more testing.

[Pistol Pete 10]

What ever is cheapest but no steel cases. No remanufactured, no hand loads except mine.