I get stressed out when I shoot and it affects my marksmanship

[Cypher]

I've noticed a pattern in my shooting. Every time I've qualified with a handgun for either my church or my employer I've qualified expert. The only exception was the first time I qualified for my church. I panicked and I failed the qualification. The second time I remember making a specific point of making sure I saw the sights and I passed. The point of this paragraph is that I don't think I'm an intrinsically bad shot.

I've noticed lately that when I go to the range I do fine if I simply draw and fire but if I take my time and make sure of my grip and my stance and focus on my sight alignment and try to make shot on center I (for lack of a better word) panic and start pulling to the left. The more I panic the worse it gets and the worse it gets the more I panic. I think it's what people call "Buck Fever".

How do I overcome it.

[Cory]

Attend training. Spend more time at the range with a different focus. Try a DA if your currently shooting Glock. Try out a target focus sight picture.

To me, it sounds like when you focus you get "NOW" syndrom. Where everything must be perfect then you try to break a shot. Langdon described it in a video somewhere.

A DA may help, so you can practice lining up the sshot while rolling through the trigger. Or, you could try shooting with a target focus while presenting to the target, rolling through the trigger while presenting and breaking the shot at the end. Transitions or other shooting that is less accuracy focused may help you as well. Sort of get your mind off it while still needing some accuracy. Then go back and work on it when you're fresh.

Eitherway, a session with a trainer, coach, or experienced friend can help double check the fundamentals.

My advice is worth what you've paid for it. Please listen to the vetted members here if they disagree with me.

-Cory

[HopetonBrown]

Get comfortable being uncomfortable.

You get nervous because you're used to shooting by yourself with nobody watching, nothing on the line (talking about pride, not life).

Shoot matches where you'll frequently feel nervous, and the nervousness will go away. Shoot with a group of guys you don't want to fail in front of.

[Cypher]

To me, it sounds like when you focus you get "NOW" syndrom. Where everything must be perfect then you try to break a shot. Langdon described it in a video somewhere.

I didn't know there was a name for it but you just described my problem to a "T"



Get comfortable being uncomfortable.

You get nervous because you're used to shooting by yourself with nobody watching, nothing on the line (talking about pride, not life).

Shoot matches where you'll frequently feel nervous, and the nervousness will go away. Shoot with a group of guys you don't want to fail in front of.

My only objection to this statement is if it were completely true I'd fail every single time I qualified. That said I do better alone.

[Cory]

Cypher Take what you need from these LangdonTactical videos.


https://youtu.be/WS7dgN8iu6Y
I'd listen to what he says during the demos near the end. Video by TCinVA


https://youtu.be/FsoX26OhDCY
The DA/SA parts may or may not apply. But the "NOW" he describes seems to be what you're talking about.

-Cory

[HCM]

While Corman mean well, what you describe is not a technical issue.

Buck fever, test anxiety, overthinking what ever term you choose, it is a mental /anxiety issue and it’s not uncommon.

All of this fall s under what Steve Fisher terms “Emotional Control.” It’s a thing and you can work on it.

https://sentinelconcepts.com/emotional-control-with-sentinel-concepts/


https://youtu.be/63LIwEN7LCU

If feasible, it might be worth a visit or two to a sports psychologist. A majority of professional and Olympic level athletes consult with sports psychologists to both boost performance and to manage performance anxiety. Given many Olympic athletes train in Colorado springs there should be some good ones local to you.

As Hopeton Brown mentioned, some type of local competition can be helpful. Not so much for the shooting but as a form of stress inoculation. The first one will suck but it will get better and once you get comfortable shooting something like IDPA, your church qual will be child’s play by comparison. Training can be good too but running your current gear in a local IDPA match is likely going to be much cheaper.

That said, given a limited budget I would say you will get a lot more out of a couple sessions with a sports psychologist than another pistol class.

You may also want to do some research on focusing on the process of what you are doing instead of focusing on the outcome. You focus on working the process and trust that the desired outcome will result if you follow the process.

For example, I have a coworker who was a medical professional who worked both civilian and military Travel medicine before going into law-enforcement. She is a very Type A driven individual. She tends to become outcome focused and causes issues when shooting and qualifying. The way I explained it to her is you need to work the process of shooting the same way you would work the process of doing a systematic examination of a trauma patient and trust that it will give you an accurate picture of their injuries, not focus on whether the patient will live or die at that point.

[voodoo_man]

relax...just do it...

seriously though, your anxiety comes from a combo of lacking confidence in your ability and performance requirements.

more training more often is always the answer

[FNFAN]

relax...just do it...



This^^^

Be the Honey Badger. Your shooting is a private affair between you and your target/adversary. You focus on what you have to do. Sight alignment at the point the primer ignites and follow-through.

[BehindBlueI's]

If you're not familiar with the concept and practice of "combat breathing" I'd recommend it. It works really well and you eventually get to the point your body remembers the activity is associated with calm and you don't get as big a stress reaction. Over time I noticed a huge reduction in stress reaction during vehicle pursuits due to conscious use of combat breathing.

[pangloss]

Cypher, do you see any relative difference in how well you shoot from the holster versus slow fire? I struggle to shoot well at distance, but I've noticed that if I draw and fire at a target at 15 yards, I can often outshoot my slow fire groups. I think this is because of the NOW issues mentioned above, but I'm not certain. Regardless, I definitely think more IDPA would benefit you.

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk

[Cypher]

Cypher, do you see any relative difference in how well you shoot from the holster versus slow fire?

I must not have said it right in the OP but that's my whole point.

When I simply draw and shoot I do fine. Even when I'm qualifying which should produce the most "test anxiety" I'm fine. It's when I'm doing the slow fire that I freak out and get performance anxiety and pull every single shot to the left.

[blues]

I must not have said it right in the OP but that's my whole point.

When I simply draw and shoot I do fine. Even when I'm qualifying which should produce the most "test anxiety" I'm fine. It's when I'm doing the slow fire that I freak out and get performance anxiety and pull every single shot to the left.

I agree with the comments about training your breathing...relaxing...and just letting your focus attach to the task at hand.

Don't look at it like when a teacher would announce a surprise or pop quiz. Let your controlled breathing relieve you of the anxiety, then just look at your intended POA and place the rounds where you want them. There is no quiz. There is no buzzer. It's all you...the gun...and your target.

Clear your mind of everything extraneous to that task.

[pangloss]

I must not have said it right in the OP but that's my whole point.

When I simply draw and shoot I do fine. Even when I'm qualifying which should produce the most "test anxiety" I'm fine. It's when I'm doing the slow fire that I freak out and get performance anxiety and pull every single shot to the left.I just missed it or have troublingly low short term reading retention. Anyway, you're definitely not alone.

EDIT: Also, do ball and dummy drills. I often shoot 2-4 mags per range session that are loaded with alternating live and dummy rounds. Results are best when combined with nightly dry fire sessions. Tightening up my support hand grip a little helps too.

[UNM1136]

I have "liked" all of the responces to this thread, because they are all right. Even If you think you have figgered out what is happenining, every one of these posts have had solid advice that can be applied even if the poster is wrong about you or you are already dealing with the issue. Confidence and capability in shooting is incremental. As Uncle Pat used to say, shooting advancements are evolutionary, rather than revolutionary...

pat

[ST911]

How do I overcome it.

Find a club, USPSA/IDPA/etc doesn't matter, and shoot matches.

[Duces Tecum]

Duplicate

[JohnO]

I've noticed a pattern in my shooting. Every time I've qualified with a handgun for either my church or my employer I've qualified expert. The only exception was the first time I qualified for my church. I panicked and I failed the qualification. The second time I remember making a specific point of making sure I saw the sights and I passed. The point of this paragraph is that I don't think I'm an intrinsically bad shot.

I've noticed lately that when I go to the range I do fine if I simply draw and fire but if I take my time and make sure of my grip and my stance and focus on my sight alignment and try to make shot on center I (for lack of a better word) panic and start pulling to the left. The more I panic the worse it gets and the worse it gets the more I panic. I think it's what people call "Buck Fever".

How do I overcome it.

You may benefit for what is presented here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li0rGtXh23I

[nwhpfan]

Anxiety and stress is so common their are instructors who are known for teaching how to overcome it. Brian Enos was one of the first prominent shooters talking about the mental game.

I took a Steve Anderson class a few years ago and he had his own instruction along with some stuff from Enos and Lanny Basham; olympic shooter, author speaker, etc. who wrote With Winning in Mind. (https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Mind-3rd-Ed/dp/1934324264/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=with+winning+in+mind&qid=1571626332&sr=8-1)

Check the book out.

[gringop]

In the early part of my shooting journey, I use to get VERY VERY nervous when practicing on an indoor range and also on a busy outdoor range. I'd be thinking about the other shooters, If they though I was a bad shooter, where my brass was landing and if I would be able to find it, etc. etc. In other words, if it was something that had absolutely nothing to do with the important aspects of shooting, I was devoting at least1/3 of my brainpower to it while shooting.

Through practice, (most of it alone on the range) training classes and competition, I was able to concentrate on what is important and learn to ignore the rest of it. The fact that back then it was 2 or 3 days before the match scores got posted really helped me to not focus on the outcome and just focus on the process of shooting each shot well as mentioned above.

Also, tracking my progress and working on my weaknesses during practice helped a lot.

So, after some time, I no longer give a hoot what other shooters think, or if I lose a bunch of precious brass in the weeds. If I shoot good I smile about it and if I make mistakes, I note it as something to work on in practice.

Gringop

[JRV]

I must not have said it right in the OP but that's my whole point.

When I simply draw and shoot I do fine. Even when I'm qualifying which should produce the most "test anxiety" I'm fine. It's when I'm doing the slow fire that I freak out and get performance anxiety and pull every single shot to the left.

I have two thoughts. Both might be different, independent issues. However, I have seen both in students and friends.

First, the psychological block. It's because you're trying to shoot, and not shooting.

If your problem comes from overthinking the basics of a trigger press, I would consider a clays class for a change of pace. Pulling a shotgun trigger on a bird is a quick and deliberate reaction to visual stimuli. It might help your brain to get over a fear of breaking the trigger "wrong," and it will help you develop a deeper focus on the gun-target visual relationship. Pistol shooting at a fixed target is generally a proactive exercise (where you can psych yourself out in advance), but shotgunning is reactive.

So, consider a shotgunning class to change your relationship with your trigger. It could help you transition from a person that tries to make a good trigger press happen to a person that causes them to happen as a reaction to a proper sight/target relationship. It sounds like hippie-zen bullshit. It is. But it helps.

Second, the distance-related psych-out. In most qualification courses, slow-fire portions tend to be longer distance "marksmanship" tests. Anecdotally, most shooters practice slow-fire at longer distances (not many people, beyond novices, do slow fire at a 7 yard silhouette). Is this your experience?

If your slow-fire issues are only arising at distance, then I recommend dot torture at 3 yards. Many rounds of it. A small target close up will allow you to focus on marksmanship fundamentals without getting mentally goobered about distance.

When you can clean it, go to 5 yards. That's still close, and it will push your marksmanship fundamentals as hard or harder than a silhouette target at 25 yards.

The trick, presuming your slow-fire issues are arising from longer-distance targets, is to fool your brain into just seeing the target as just another small target, and not one that's far away.

So, in sum, it might be that you're psyched out about breaking the trigger right before you need to make it happen. Take a break and enroll in a clays class to get experience with reactive shooting. It might be you're psyched out over distance. Get your brain to start thinking "small target" and not "far target."

Neither might help you, but I hope something in this thread does. Good luck!

[psalms144.1]

If I had a dime for every time I'd heard "this ammo shoots low" when we move to the 25 yard line, I could have retired a long time ago. What I tell everyone, and demonstrate, is when TRYING to make a very precise hit, many people have a tendency to try to control the EXACT microsecond that the shot breaks. We all have a natural wobble zone, which doesn't get better with age. When shooting at 25, people have a tendency to try to FORCE the shot to break when everything looks just right. This almost always leads to mashing the trigger, and a resultant nose dive of the front sight.

I suffer from this myself, especially when I've shot a particularly pretty group out to the 15 yard line. What I try to do is NOT worry about the perfect sight PICTURE, and focus on the sight ALIGNMENT while making a conscious decision to press the trigger smoothly to the rear once I start the press. I don't stage the trigger, I don't muscle my stance and grip to try to hold completely still, I just hold an adequate sight picture, and press the trigger. The shot breaks when it breaks - my "wobble zone" isn't so large that my sight picture is so out of whack that I'll get a miss, UNLESS I commit a random act of violence on my trigger.

+10,000 to shooting DOT Torture.

[David S.]

.............. nm

[HCM]

What I tell everyone, and demonstrate, is when TRYING to make a very precise hit, many people have a tendency to try to control the EXACT microsecond that the shot breaks. We all have a natural wobble zone, which doesn't get better with age. When shooting at 25, people have a tendency to try to FORCE the shot to break when everything looks just right. This almost always leads to mashing the trigger, and a resultant nose dive of the front sight

Same here. I usually refer to this process as “The Kodak Moment.”

[David S.]

https://youtu.be/_AoCK5r2TWg

[RevolverRob]

I actually submit you're having a mental block, because of high personal standards mixed with anxiety.

You've mentioned a couple of times, and I think this weighs heavily on you, that your shooting and your standards are driven currently, because of your decision to carry a firearm in church as part of the protective duties to your fellow churchgoers.

When you don't shoot well, you are getting inside your own head, because you want to be successful with every press of the trigger (e.g., "perfect practice"), because of the stakes you have built into your head with your responsibilities. Unconsciously, you are adept and capable. Consciously, you are adept, capable, and aware of that. So when you make a mistake, you tend to paralyze with it as opposed to accepting it. After all, you are not supposed to make mistakes, you're working to protect yourself and the lives of others...right? That could well be a big mental roadblock, if I've ever heard one.

How do you get over that kind of roadblock? Carefully.

I mean that seriously. I actually don't think, "more training and more shooting" is the solution, because I suspect your block is a little more complex.

First, I'll remind you that though the risks are high the probabilities are very low, chances are, you'll never need your handgun inside your church, ever. Second, I'll remind you that statistics show, drawing and engaging an active shooter reduces causalities by a significant portion. Even if you don't score decisive fight ending hits against the attacker, doing something saves lives. Third, I'd encourage you to talk with your fellow members about these protective duties and assignments and any anxieties you may have about them.

Then, after those things - I'd remind you - the reason we miss in practice, is to learn how not to miss in the real world. And right now you are learning to struggle with standards that are too high at certain times. We can fix this in a few ways, but the easiest is to break something down to its fundamental components and practice each of them exclusive of one another. This allows us to build the confidence and return to the points where we lost confidence more easily.

Right now what you describe as "panic" is a red flag to me. The flag I see says, "We can't fix someone that thinks everything is broken." - You have to tell us (really yourself) specifically where the wheels are coming off on this. What causes you to panic, when, where, what time, and what circumstances? You give us some of that, you concentrate on slow, sighted, fire, and start pushing shots low and left, and then "panic". That's usually when I yell, "STOP!" and you stop, and we back it up and break it down.

Are you trying to force a perfect shot, it doesn't hit, so you keep forcing it and making it worse? If so, here's an easy solution.

Stop.

Next time you drop a shot and then drop another, stop. Just stop shooting. Put the gun in the holster. See? Cycle broken. Patience is what you need next. To restart, we're not going to go right back to trying that aimed, slow-fire, instead, you're going to just draw the gun out of the holster and index the sights. Do it 10-times in a row. Feeling better? Okay, draw, see the sights, press the trigger - repeat it outloud if you have to. See the shot, it'll go where you want and bam, you're back in business.

See? We solved that problem. Stop the thought by stopping the action and resetting. Stop the panic by stopping the action and resetting.

[Clusterfrack]

Here’s a drill I designed that may help:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?32152-Week-278-Stress-Inoculation

[Joe in PNG]

Go have fun. Find somewhere you can just shoot cans & similar with a .22lr revolver, or something like that.
Don't keep score, just blast away.

[Eric_L]

There is a book called “Choke”. Has to do with......choking under pressure. How to not over focus. Lots of anecdotes. It is a good read. I am not saying that is what you are doing. It it has come up in this thread so I put it out there.

[DueSpada]

"I've noticed lately that when I go to the range I do fine if I simply draw and fire but if I take my time and make sure of my grip and my stance and focus on my sight alignment and try to make shot on center I (for lack of a better word) panic and start pulling to the left. The more I panic the worse it gets and the worse it gets the more I panic. I think it's what people call "Buck Fever".

How do I overcome it."

Maybe give the shot sequence and all the other details a rest for a bit. You answered yourself in the first sentence.
Simply draw and fire.

[AKDoug]

Anxiety and stress is so common their are instructors who are known for teaching how to overcome it. Brian Enos was one of the first prominent shooters talking about the mental game.

I took a Steve Anderson class a few years ago and he had his own instruction along with some stuff from Enos and Lanny Basham; olympic shooter, author speaker, etc. who wrote With Winning in Mind. (https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Mind-3rd-Ed/dp/1934324264/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=with+winning+in+mind&qid=1571626332&sr=8-1)

Check the book out.

Lanny Bassham changed my life... well my marksmanship life. But I apply his methods to other areas of my life. His books are excellent.

[Jim Watson]

Quit the solitary vice, shoot in company, preferably in competition.

Do what is difficult, not what is easy. If you are happy with your draw and fire, there might not be a lot to gain from the run n gun sports IDPA and USPSA. It might be hard to find a bullseye club these days, but that is what you need.

[Clobbersaurus]

I’m a Steve Anderson fan and have fully bought into his idea that the conscious mind can only focus on one thing at a time.

The OP wrote:
I take my time and make sure of my grip and my stance and focus on my sight alignment and try to make shot on center I (for lack of a better word)

I notice you are trying to focus on everything at once when you shoot. Give yourself one thing to focus on, like sight alignment only, and forget about everything else.

This may seem like an oversimplification of the problem, but it may not be. Focus on one thing and forget the rest, if you have been training properly, your muscle memory will fill in the gaps.

[pangloss]

I’m a Steve Anderson fan and have fully bought into his idea that the conscious mind can only focus on one thing at a time.

The OP wrote: "I take my time and make sure of my grip and my stance and focus on my sight alignment and try to make shot on center I (for lack of a better word)."

I notice you are trying to focus on everything at once when you shoot. Give yourself one thing to focus on, like sight alignment only, and forget about everything else.

This may seem like an oversimplification of the problem, but it may not be. Focus on one thing and forget the rest, if you have been training properly, your muscle memory will fill in the gaps.


I haven't read Anderson's book, but a few months ago I was listening to one of the episodes of Ballistic Radio Podcast when they hosted Scott Jedlinski. Jedlinski said something to the effect that all your gun handling needs to be firmly established as habit so that you can focus all your attention on the sights. Breaking shooting down into the component parts in order to establish those various habits is something I struggle with, at least during live fire.

[Clobbersaurus]

I haven't read Anderson's book, but a few months ago I was listening to one of the episodes of Ballistic Radio Podcast when they hosted Scott Jedlinski. Jedlinski said something to the effect that all your gun handling needs to be firmly established as habit so that you can focus all your attention on the sights. Breaking shooting down into the component parts in order to establish those various habits is something I struggle with, at least during live fire.

Grip pressure, stance, trigger press, sight picture, draws - almost all of it - except maybe recoil control drills, can, and should be practiced in dry fire. It’s way easier to isolate these things in dry practice so you don’t have to try to think of all of it consciously in live fire. The same can be said for movement, transitions, etc, etc, etc.

Dry practice is the key to live fire skill. Well......at least for the 99% of us that don’t have an unlimited ammo budget.

[Drang]

https://youtu.be/_AoCK5r2TWg

Damn it, man, I was going to post that! :D

OP: I forget who it was attributed to, but either Tom Givens or LangdonTactical -- I trained with each of them in about a six month period, and when you add MAG40 with Mas at the start, it was an epic year, but kind of a blur -- but someone (@Mr_White ?) uses the term "Sight Movie" instead of "Sight Picture", and if you're better at dealing with a "social interaction"-realistic sight movie than a "square range"-relevant "Take a deep breath release half an squeeze" sight picture, I, for one, would call it good, and try to figure out how to incorporate that into quals, etc.

IMHO, which is worth what you pay for it, assuming you're using a work computer (i.e., free) to read this...



EDIT: OK, why does "mentioning" Gabe not work?

[Duelist]

Damn it, man, I was going to post that! :D

OP: I forget who it was attributed to, but either Tom Givens or LangdonTactical -- I trained with each of them in about a six month period, and when you add MAG40 with Mas at the start, it was an epic year, but kind of a blur -- but someone (@Mr_White ?) uses the term "Sight Movie" instead of "Sight Picture", and if you're better at dealing with a "social interaction"-realistic sight movie than a "square range"-relevant "Take a deep breath release half an squeeze" sight picture, I, for one, would call it good, and try to figure out how to incorporate that into quals, etc.

IMHO, which is worth what you pay for it, assuming you're using a work computer (i.e., free) to read this...



EDIT: OK, why does "mentioning" Gabe not work?

Gabe did say that exact thing - sight movie - today. It struck me as significant. I even wrote it down.

I also demonstrated falling apart under pressure on each test run today.

[Cypher]

My data rolls over tonight so I'm using up my last gig and a half for this month watching all these videos.

The first one by Ernest Langdon. Talking about efficient presentation when he showed what he called the escalator ride you could see the gun wobble as he was pulling the trigger I was watching that and thinking oh my God that's me. I've always been an advocate of practicing right instead of practicing fast and maybe I need to do what he's doing in that video