Colt Mustang/Sig P238/Springfield 911/Kimber Micro - And their 9mm brethren

[RevolverRob]

If you have one/had one chime in -

Reliability?
Carryability?
Shootability?

The purpose of this gun - shoulder holster carry for in the car, to toss on for late night dog walks, and pocket carry when I need to pocket carry (not very often).

Currently leaning towards the Sig P938 version, because of the bigger sights and not needing to add another caliber to the stable, Crimson Trace has a lightguard for the Sig to add a WML. The alternative I'm thinking the Colt XSP with the dovetailed sights and light rail, and adding Novak sights, along with a compact WML, which would be slightly smaller, but need another caliber. Other advantage of the XSP - it's ~3-4 ounces lighter than the metal guns.

I'm not sure there is much shootability difference, between the .380 and 9mm guns, since the .380s are shrunk slightly to the 9mm guns.

[45dotACP]

Shot the Springfield version in 9mm.

I don't even get very high on the grips of most guns, but it cut my hands up and drew blood quite quickly. If the Sig is at all similar I'd recommend against it.

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[Moylan]

I had a Mustang Pocketlite for 4 or 5 years--one of the new ones, not the original. It was extremely reliable with all ammo I tried. I would call it very shootable, apart from the terrible sights. As you note, there are other versions of the Mustang that don't have that problem. The gun is slightly heavy and fat for what it is--again, the polymer frame version might help with this--but I still found it amazingly concealable. All things considered, I'd say it was a first rate gun for those days when you can't carry a real gun. (Putting a WML on the Mustang strikes me as contrary its purpose, but then your purposes aren't really any of my business.)

[3-7-77]

Wife carries a P238. She has little person sized hands and it fits her well. So far it’s been reliable and accurate with everything we’ve put through it, including Speer Gold Dots and Hornady Critical Defense. It’s actually a lot of fun to shoot and she shoots it much better than her LCP. I wouldn’t hesitate to get another one.

[FrankB]

I have the P938, and my and I each have a P238. 100% reliable, great accuracy, and carry very well. My preference is the P938, but only because of its cartridge size. They carry great, and the P938 was my EDC for two years.

[LockedBreech]

I have some trigger time on the P238 and P938. Both ran great. The P238 is a heck of a lot of fun.

[RevolverRob]

(Putting a WML on the Mustang strikes me as contrary its purpose, but then your purposes aren't really any of my business.)

You are not necessarily wrong, with respect to using it for deep concealment purposes. When it would serve as a walk the dog late at night gun, it’s one of the few times a WML might prove useful. Trying to handle a dog, a flashlight, and a gun isn’t ideal. Similarly when traveling sometimes we stop for the night in places where I might not be able to recon, when we have the dog. I still carry a handheld, but a WML would add a bit more versatility.

When carried as a driving gun, it would be a backup, primarily, to a full size 1911. But I do not carry a 1911 with a WML attached.



I have the P938, and my and I each have a P238. 100% reliable, great accuracy, and carry very well. My preference is the P938, but only because of its cartridge size. They carry great, and the P938 was my EDC for two years.

Frank - any noticeable difference in concealment - any pocket carry experience to compare the two?

[FrankB]

RevolverRob
No difference to speak of. I mostly pocket carry a pistol that small, with a Nemesis holster. I do have a kydex IWB holster for the P238, but it’s just so small. I have all types of holsters for the P238/P938, but they get pocket carried. Same with my P365. I wear regular dress slacks, and it’s never a problem.

[wmu12071]

If you have one/had one chime in -

Reliability?
Carryability?
Shootability?
.

All observations based on a sample of 1 P938 that I don't own but I see shot a fair amount. I think for it's size it is pretty shootable.

Given its size it is pretty concealable although I do not pocket carry or carry in shoulder holsters.

Issues I have seen:

The guide rod backed out and fell on the shooting bench. Lock-tite seemed to fix that issue.

The fiber optic fell out of the TFO front sight a few times but was replaced by our local dealer.

I person can't turn off the safety without pinching the crap out of my skin on the opposite side.

Lastly the side stop had kept backing out of the gun and locking it up. After a few trips to Sign with no really fix dimpling a spot for the spring to catch in seems to have worked.

Edited to add: the light guard pushes you middle and ring fingers slightly lower on the grip which can be an issue if you have bigger fingers.

[0ddl0t]

I was impressed with the Springfield EMP. It is 0.7" longer and 1" taller than the Springfield 911, but is 9+1 vs 6+1 and significantly more shootable. It is the only small 1911 9mm* that I've been able to run through 100+ rounds of rapid fire drills with range ammo without hiccups. The only thing I don't like is that it doesn't appear rated for +P.

I still prefer my P365, but if I had to have a 1911-style pistol for deep concealment it would be an EMP.

*The other small 1911 9mms I've tested were a jam-o-matic Kimber Micro and a Sig P938 that broke its guide rod (it still functioned, but it felt funny). If I got a P938, I'd spring for the aftermarket 1 piece stainless guide rod.

[OlongJohnson]

I had a P938 SAS. Beautifully made little gun; it's what got me looking at other Sigs. Unfortunately, I couldn't get a firing grip without my thumb knuckle being in line with the lower left corner of the slide, with a troubling amount of overlap. Weirdly, the LCP didn't have that issue, but did have a whole bunch of other issues. The G43/48 grip setup doesn't seem to have the slide bite issue, either. For any mission where a P938 would work, I'd certainly check a G43/Gadget/grip mods as an alternative.

[flyrodr]

Happy with my P365. Trigger pull is smooth, but longer than a 1911. 10+1 9mm with flush mag. Manual safety version available.

I have a Colt New Agent that Ned Christiansen worked over, including adding "real" sights, and it's run 100%. But it might be a bit too large for you. Defender is similar sized, but with sights. It does have a 1911 trigger, so would be pretty seamless switching from your full-size 1911. 8+1. No rail.

Also have a Kahr PM9 that's several years old. It's somewhat finicky about new recoil springs, but once they're clipped off a bit, it runs well to. You either love or hate the long DA-like trigger pull (makes the P365 trigger feel like a short pull). Very smooth, and very much unlike a 1911 trigger. Like a longer version of the P365 pull. 6+1, IIRC; haven't shot it in a good while. No manual safety.

[JAD]

I have heavily shot and carried and almost bought a twin to a buddy’s Mustang Nightlite, a variant of the pocketlite with checkering, an improved thumb safety, and night sights built by somebody in the early 90s. Crazy shooty and the easiest pocket carry I’ve experienced. I do not own one because I would carry it, and carrying a 380 is fucking stupid.

[Clusterfrack]

I had a p238, and carried it sometimes back when I was into 1911s. It was reliable with:
-some fiddling with the magazine feed lips
-the right recoil spring weight
-replacement of the recoil spring at least every 500 rounds.

So, basically like a 1911.

It shot really well, and I even once won a bowling pin match with it to the great annoyance of every one else there.

But, it was less reliable, heavier, and not significantly better than a LCP 1.2

[Hambo]

SIG 238 and 938 have decent sights, but tiny 1911 controls fucking suck. In micro pistols it's hard to beat a G43 or LCP.

[Chuck Whitlock]

The purpose of this gun - shoulder holster carry for in the car, to toss on for late night dog walks, and pocket carry when I need to pocket carry (not very often).


As I recall, you are a fan of Kahr pistols. I used to have a Solo shoulder rig from Sam Andrews that carried mine superbly. A CCC VersaClip holster fully covers my CW9, is ambidextrous, and easily clips IWB. This doesn't help with pocket carry or the WML. Have you messed with the S-series with rail?

[Jay Cunningham]

SIG 238 and 938 have decent sights, but tiny 1911 controls fucking suck. In micro pistols it's hard to beat a G43 or LCP.

A million times this.

[RevolverRob]

Just so you guys know - Cylinder and Slide makes an extended thumb safety - that is WAY better. https://cylinder-slide.com/Category/Coltsft

It fits Colts and Sigs for sure, including the 938. Will probably fit the Kimber and Springfield versions, since they are all Colt Mustang clones.

Pic stolen from Sig Forum - here is the C&S Safety installed on a 938. I wouldn't run the Hogue grips with this, because they would cut down on the purchase you get to thumb safety up, but with VZs it should work fine.

43593

[Whirlwind06]

Have you considered the XDE? It can be carried condition 1. I don't have a 938 to compare it to but I would think they have to be pretty close in size.

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[RevolverRob]

Have you considered the XDE? It can be carried condition 1. I don't have a 938 to compare it to but I would think they have to be pretty close in size.

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According to Springfield the 9mm 911 and the XDE are quite a bit different in size. The 9mm 911 is .85" shorter in length, 1.1" shorter in height, and almost 10-ounces lighter than the 3.3" XDE.

The reason to go with the micro guns here is that I carry a 1911/2011 and the Mustang and Clones are miniaturized 1911 ergos, but bearing in mind they are not mini-1911s under the hood, which is what seems to make them run better than most mini 1911s (e.g., Officer and Defender sized guns).

[_JD_]

I've had and seen so many problems with the Sigs such as extreme extractor clocking, slide stops falling out of guns etc that I would not trust the Sigs. The Colts don't have enough sights. Kimber? Lets not even open that sack of pooh. My 238 went 3 for 3 on trips to NH for service before being completely replaced.

Springfield would probably be the only hope i that class and even then I'd be skeptical.

I have 3 of the older Colt Mustang variants and TBH I'd rather carry a LCP2 or a G42.

If it has to be a 9mm I'd probably take a Shield or G43, or a PM9 before anny if these little SAOs.

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[JHC]

Before this thread I didn't know the SA 911 existed. Totally missed the memo.

Found this and enjoyed it for Leatham's commentary, irrespective of this model. His comments about how flat sided pistols are better than curvey gripped pistols is best part. Ironic given what many call ergonomic about a lot of pistol grips.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ut8ZNQcSbmE

[RevolverRob]

Before this thread I didn't know the SA 911 existed. Totally missed the memo.

Found this and enjoyed it for Leatham's commentary, irrespective of this model. His comments about how flat sided pistols are better than curvey gripped pistols is best part. Ironic given what many call ergonomic about a lot of pistol grips.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ut8ZNQcSbmE

The 911 is intriguing in this realm, due to weight (~15 ounces loaded), the sights (Ameriglo Pros), and a flat-wire recoil spring. All of those make it the best option in this category. The thing I don't like though is the pop-up loaded chamber indicator. But if it's anything like an XD, it can be removed by driving a pin out.

RE: flat guns - I think he's right about flat pistols shooting mo' better. Look at folks who have run HK P30s/HK45s and yet find themselves moving back to the USP or the HK45C with the flat sides. This is one reason I like Kahrs too, generally flat shape.

In general our first inclination is to think round things are better shapes for human hands to hold onto, yet look at the round things we use - golf clubs, baseball bats, etc. yet think about how those things are used, they rotate in the hand and spin/move. Now contrast that with things we swing, but want to hold onto, like a hockey stick or a tennis racket, those things are oblong with flat sides. The sharper corners tend to dig in the hand and resist rotation. When we're shooting handguns, we want the gun to stay "locked in" as opposed to rotate.

When we look at historic weapons and tools, generally flat sides along the palm and rounded around the front. Sword handles, axe handles, etc.


I've had and seen so many problems with the Sigs such as extreme extractor clocking, slide stops falling out of guns etc that I would not trust the Sigs. The Colts don't have enough sights. Kimber? Lets not even open that sack of pooh. My 238 went 3 for 3 on trips to NH for service before being completely replaced.

Springfield would probably be the only hope i that class and even then I'd be skeptical.

I have 3 of the older Colt Mustang variants and TBH I'd rather carry a LCP2 or a G42.

If it has to be a 9mm I'd probably take a Shield or G43, or a PM9 before anny if these little SAOs.

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Thanks for the feedback on the Sigs. I will continue to default to snub , which is why I'm not really looking at the other little .380s. The idea here is a sub-compact piece with the same set of controls as my belt guns.

I'm kind of thinking of taking a flier on the Springfield - Cost wise it's a little more than the Sig, but less than the Colt XSP, and it weighs less than the Sig. Plus the best sights in class. My three concerns are reliability, fitting an extended C&S safety (which as long as it's a proper Mustang-clone should be fairly easy), and the sharp edges that were noted earlier. I've got stones and files to dull edges. If it doesn't work right, we'll see if Springfield can fix it, but so far all reports and reviews seem to indicate the Springfields are pretty reliable.

[Polecat]

Playing with / vetting a 238 currently, I like the small size, I have 20oz HD version, zero recoil. Testing a 7 round with magguts extension. Easy to shoot 9 rounds with one hand fast. I like the 238 more than the Springfields. May get a second with aluminum frame!

[TOTS]

I’ve been shooting and carrying a P938 for around four years now with 100% reliability. I did have the common problem with the two-piece guide rod coming apart but once I added a bit of loctite I never had that problem again. I use it as a deep concealment piece and where it shines is the shootability. It has great sights and is reliable. The grips and checking absolutely lock the gun in your hand. Extremely flat and conceals well. Fits in a pocket. That said, I feel most guns are too heavy for a pocket and would get a holster for it. And if im going to wear it on a belt then I prefer a larger gun. It does shine as a ankle carry. The quality and feature set make it worth the price. Hasn’t malfunctioned a single time. The controls are small but work; you guys disparaging them would not like it either if they put full-sized controls on a micro gun. Overall, it’s a great micro-1911. If you’re a 1911 guy looking for a deep-concealment piece, it’s for you. If you’re a Glock guy, I’d recommend the 43. If you’re strictly DA/SA, maybe the XDE.

[Will Fennell]

I'm a 1911 guy, and I have been very happy with a Sig 938 for my '1911 pocket gun'. I've got about 750 rounds through it without a malfunction. Feeds defensive ammo fine. I shoot it MUCH better than the small polymer guns. After reading this thread, I think I'll try the extended safety from
C&S, but its not mandatory. These guns are small...there is no free lunch. Pick what features are important to you and train around the problems. YMMV.

Best,

Will