Improving the J-frame trigger [Archive]

JRV

10-07-2019, 11:10 AM

In my experience, the rebound slide bearing surface can occasionally have tiny burrs and chattermarks that come through in the trigger press as "hitches."

You can polish manually, or you can dry-fire (with snap caps)/shoot a bunch. Honestly, I think the best trigger job for starters (before any spring swaps) is about 1000 dry pulls on snap caps while watching some TV. That will smooth our the high spots and give your internals a bit of a stress test.

Like everything else revolver-related, your trigger will get sweeter with time... until it gets a bit too worn (which takes years and years).

I hope your 642 will still detonate primers. I de-Apexed my 642-2 because that revolver became "Federal ammo only, and only while clean" with the Apex kit.

spinmove_

10-07-2019, 12:31 PM

So the rebound slide bar is the only piece that needs some care? That seems simple enough. I’ve probably got around 400 rounds through it so far and at least double that if not triple that in dry presses. I’ve pretty much only fed it Federal ammo so far as I carry the GMMWCs and practice with either the LSWCs or LRNs.

I’ll see if I can run some other brands through it for testing soon.

JRV

10-07-2019, 01:21 PM

I won't say the rebound slide is the "only" piece that benefits from love, but it directly interfaces with the trigger.

Good luck with your Apex kit! Mine had a 50% ignition rate with Fiocchi and about a 90% ignition rate with CCI and S&B. It detonated Federal 100%.

It eats anything with the stock springs installed, though the trigger is around 12 pounds.

camsdaddy

10-07-2019, 01:43 PM

I know the word dry fire refers to firing without ammunition. I am wondering about actual dry firing without any lube. Would it speed up the honing and break in?

JRV

10-07-2019, 02:14 PM

I know the word dry fire refers to firing without ammunition. I am wondering about actual dry firing without any lube. Would it speed up the honing and break in?

In general or in J-Frames?

In general, I would not operate any gun without adequate lubrication. In the context of dry-firing and dry action-cycling as a means of removing burrs, chattermarks, and high spots, a lightweight oil is an ideal medium for ensuring that any microscopic pieces of metal removed by dry-operating the action are carried out of the mechanism to a place where they can be wiped away.

With revolvers, there should be very little lubrication in a revolver's internals. They are meant to operate as an almost-sealed system, so there are no great places where for lubricant to flow out (e.g. it would flow down into the grip or down the trigger shoe).

I coat internal friction points with the thinnest layer of lithium grease after a detail cleaning every few thousand rounds. Revolvers can get filthy inside over time (full-on dustbunnies), so you don't want anything inside that would give particulates a sticking point.

Because the various internal components have differing degrees of smoothness to their surfaces, potentially different hardnesses, and potentially different treatments/coatings, I would not artificially run those internals dry. Instead of smoothing out a burr or toolmark through dry-fire (slowly flattening that burr down), for example, that burr might end up marring the finish on a mating surface with another component... making the problem worse.

Someone else with a lot more experience cracking apart revolvers might have a different take, but that's been my experience.

jetfire

10-07-2019, 02:48 PM

I hope your 642 will still detonate primers. I de-Apexed my 642-2 because that revolver became "Federal ammo only, and only while clean" with the Apex kit.

Did you put the extended firing pin in the gun? I know a few people who've had the light primer strike issue with the Apex kit who have solved it with the extended pin.

JRV

10-07-2019, 03:23 PM

Did you put the extended firing pin in the gun? I know a few people who've had the light primer strike issue with the Apex kit who have solved it with the extended pin.

Yes, I installed the Apex extended FP that came with the kit, their FP spring, the rebound slide spring, and their hammer spring. Everything was installed correctly (it's hard to screw up that kit).

Still had a lot of clicks that needed to be bangs. Felt real nice on those clicks, though.

jetfire

10-07-2019, 03:54 PM

Yes, I installed the Apex extended FP that came with the kit, their FP spring, the rebound slide spring, and their hammer spring. Everything was installed correctly (it's hard to screw up that kit).

Still had a lot of clicks that needed to be bangs. Felt real nice on those clicks, though.

That sucks. I often forget that people buy ammo for their revolvers that isn't Federal, because if I'm perfectly frank that's all I ever shoot these days.

JRV

10-07-2019, 04:07 PM

That sucks. I often forget that people buy ammo for their revolvers that isn't Federal, because if I'm perfectly frank that's all I ever shoot these days.

It's all I buy.

AE 130 FMJ for competing with anything that has adjustable sights, AE 158 LRN for shooting IDPA with a snub (also known as giving everyone a break to get food, water, and get a new roll of pasters at the clubhouse), and Federal 158gr SWC for carry.

However, I shoot with a lot of people that, for some reason (i.e. not poor), buy weird crap (PPU/Magtech/Fiocchi) to shoot in their revolvers. So, every once in a while, I end up putting that crap through the 642.

It's hard to snub-flex on the homies when half the rounds don't go bang.

Jim Watson

10-07-2019, 04:29 PM

I require that a defense revolver shoot reloads with CCI primers. That gives me a margin of comfort with factory loads for carry.
My old M38 has to have stock springs, but has had no action work.
My M640 .38 Special has had some action work and is reliable with Wolf reduced springs. A very nice J trigger.

jetfire

10-07-2019, 05:30 PM

It's all I buy.

AE 130 FMJ for competing with anything that has adjustable sights, AE 158 LRN for shooting IDPA with a snub (also known as giving everyone a break to get food, water, and get a new roll of pasters at the clubhouse), and Federal 158gr SWC for carry.

However, I shoot with a lot of people that, for some reason (i.e. not poor), buy weird crap (PPU/Magtech/Fiocchi) to shoot in their revolvers. So, every once in a while, I end up putting that crap through the 642.

It's hard to snub-flex on the homies when half the rounds don't go bang.

No no, you just need to modify your flex. "My gun is too nice to work with your poor-person rounds."

blues

10-07-2019, 05:41 PM

No no, you just need to modify your flex. "My gun is too nice to work with your poor-person rounds."

I had a nice J frame flex on the "J Train" in NYC while riding home from work at the federal building one evening. I really didn't want to create a huge scene on the car but I picked up the furtive glances that a goblin was casting at a couple of strap hangers.

I caught his eye and ever so slightly nudged my jacket back far enough for him to spot my model 36. He exited the train at the next stop and I got home in time for beer thirty without any drama.

(I met my future wife on the "J Train" in 1986. So, I guess as NYC transit stories go, those are two of the more positive ones.)

JodyH

10-07-2019, 05:57 PM

Yes, I installed the Apex extended FP that came with the kit, their FP spring, the rebound slide spring, and their hammer spring. Everything was installed correctly (it's hard to screw up that kit).

Still had a lot of clicks that needed to be bangs. Felt real nice on those clicks, though.

I had the exact same experience.
Too many clicks, not enough bangs.
Back to stock springs and dry fire.

jetfire

10-07-2019, 05:59 PM

I had the exact same experience.
Too many clicks, not enough bangs.
Back to stock springs and dry fire.

So be less poor and don't buy cheap ammo?

JodyH

10-07-2019, 06:09 PM

So be less poor and don't buy cheap ammo?
When S&B wadcutters are the only wadcutters that are almost always in stock by the case... I buy S&B wadcutters.

On the subject of having to buy a certain brand or flavor of ammo for reliable function.
Fuck that.
If it's SAAMI spec ammo and your gun won't run it, it's because your gun is a piece of shit.
Stop being cheap and buy better guns.

JRV

10-07-2019, 06:14 PM

No no, you just need to modify your flex. "My gun is too nice to work with your poor-person rounds."

I drive a five-year old Hyundai hatch that runs on 87 octane. I am a poor.

I don't turn down free ammo to shame casuals or their fudd dads.

A smooth-triggered J-Frame with decent sights is the ultimate sandbagging hustle-gun on a plate rack.

JRV

10-07-2019, 06:17 PM

jetfire

10-07-2019, 06:21 PM

When S&B wadcutters are the only wadcutters that are almost always in stock by the case... I buy S&B wadcutters.

On the subject of having to buy a certain brand or flavor of ammo for reliable function.
Fuck that.
If it's SAAMI spec ammo and your gun won't run it, it's because your gun is a piece of shit.
Stop being cheap and buy better guns.

lol no. Since your revolver knowledge wouldn't fill up a thimble halfway, I regret to inform you that it's quite common to tune competition revolvers so that they'll only crack Federal primers, which are renowed for being the softest in the game.

Also, SAAMI specifications don't have anything to do with primer depth or hardness, which if you knew anything about revolvers (lollolol) you'd know is a critical aspect of the ignition process. Oh, and S&B isn't SAAMI spec ammo. It's made to the European CIP ( Commission internationale permanente pour l'épreuve des armes à feu portatives) standard. That's French for "not SAAMI, dumbass."

JodyH

10-07-2019, 06:54 PM

I regret to inform you that it's quite common to tune competition revolvers
Lots of J frame competition revolvers ehh...

:rolleyes:

rd62

10-07-2019, 06:57 PM

I had the exact same experience.
Too many clicks, not enough bangs.
Back to stock springs and dry fire.

Is there not a happy medium?

Duelist

10-07-2019, 07:08 PM

lol no. Since your revolver knowledge wouldn't fill up a thimble halfway, I regret to inform you that it's quite common to tune competition revolvers so that they'll only crack Federal primers, which are renowed for being the softest in the game.

Also, SAAMI specifications don't have anything to do with primer depth or hardness, which if you knew anything about revolvers (lollolol) you'd know is a critical aspect of the ignition process. Oh, and S&B isn't SAAMI spec ammo. It's made to the European CIP ( Commission internationale permanente pour l'épreuve des armes à feu portatives) standard. That's French for "not SAAMI, dumbass."

Are we having a bad day?

jetfire

10-07-2019, 07:09 PM

Lots of J frame competition revolvers ehh...

:rolleyes:

That's missing the point. The point is that it's not uncommon for revolvers to be tuned by their users to fire only a specific brand of ammo or primer.

Hell, I wouldn't know if my guns will crack S&B primers because I've never put S&B in my carry guns. And why would I, when Federal is plentiful and relatively affordable?

Doc_Glock

10-07-2019, 07:30 PM

Are we having a bad day?

It was a fun read.

jetfire

10-07-2019, 07:46 PM

It was a fun read.

Acerbity is a trademark of my writing.

paherne

10-07-2019, 07:55 PM

Acerbity is a trademark of my writing.

I worry that someone might read your advice and apply it to a carry gun.

OlongJohnson

10-07-2019, 08:26 PM

That's missing the point. The point is that it's not uncommon for revolvers to be tuned by their users to fire only a specific brand of ammo or primer.

Hell, I wouldn't know if my guns will crack S&B primers because I've never put S&B in my carry guns. And why would I, when Federal is plentiful and relatively affordable?

Well, I have watched Jerry's video, "Trigger Job." In it, he says that duty guns should be set up to fire any ammunition that can safely be loaded in the chambers, because someone who carries for a paycheck can't necessarily know in advance what ammo will be available when they need some. (But he sets up his competition guns for Federal primers.)

JRV

10-07-2019, 08:39 PM

Lots of J frame competition revolvers ehh...

:rolleyes:

Every J-frame is a competition gun if your only goal is to spank the few people left shooting IDPA revolver class while getting cheered on like Rudy.

jetfire

10-07-2019, 10:05 PM

I worry that someone might read your advice and apply it to a carry gun.

Why? A carry gun isn't a duty gun, and you can afford to be selective about ammo. I haven't modified the action on my LCR at all, but I still wouldn't know if it will crack Winchester primers, because a Winchester primer will never see the inside of that gun.

Being smart with purchases helps - I can afford to stockpile whatever ammo I like for my carry gun and not worry about it cracking primers on some random ammo. Plus, .38 and .357 is pretty shortage resistant, so even if I somehow managed to shoot through however many thousand rounds of American Eagle I have, I can get more.

paherne

10-07-2019, 10:36 PM

Why? A carry gun isn't a duty gun, and you can afford to be selective about ammo. I haven't modified the action on my LCR at all, but I still wouldn't know if it will crack Winchester primers, because a Winchester primer will never see the inside of that gun.

Being smart with purchases helps - I can afford to stockpile whatever ammo I like for my carry gun and not worry about it cracking primers on some random ammo. Plus, .38 and .357 is pretty shortage resistant, so even if I somehow managed to shoot through however many thousand rounds of American Eagle I have, I can get more.

You have not a clue about fighting with a revolver. Some of us did this stuff off the range, for keeps. You remind me of a virgin telling a 6th street B-girl about sex.

jetfire

10-07-2019, 10:42 PM

You have not a clue about fighting with a revolver. Some of us did this stuff off the range, for keeps. You remind me of a virgin telling a 6th street B-girl about sex.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Alright, since we're going to do the appeal to authority route, please let me know what your professional and training resume is. Since you're hiding behind an anonymous screen name, your authority and experience is irrellevant unless validated.

paherne

10-07-2019, 11:16 PM

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Alright, since we're going to do the appeal to authority route, please let me know what your professional and training resume is. Since you're hiding behind an anonymous screen name, your authority and experience is irrellevant unless validated.

Anonymous? You might be a little slow, but my username is my first initial, last name, Jetfire. Cop going on my 27th year, currently a patrol sergeant in a suburban SF Bay Area small, unique municipality, previously worked for a 900 deputy Sheriff's department. Formerly a K9 handler, K9 evaluator, SWAT guy, firearms instructor, rifle instructor, all CA POST certified, multiple Magpul Dynamics, Yavapai Firearms, International Tactical Training Seminars classes. Multiple Vickers Tactical classes to include handgun, rifle and CQB/shoothouse instructor classes. Bennie Cooley 3 day Urban Rifle Instructor, multiple EAG Pat Rogers classes to include carbine and shoothouse classes. I'm a court certified expert on assault weapons, a B92 armorer, Glock Armorer, AR 15 armorer and Sniper Rifle Gunsmith, allegedly, that's what the certificate says, anyways. I am the most decorated member of my Department, based primarily on one incident where I won the "Thanks for not shooting somebody with a knife whom you probably should have shot," award. Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein gave me plaques for that one and I am embarrassed, so I keep them in a drawer. I have never shot anyone, but I have used firearms to make arrests, to include hitting suspects with guns, where your stupid thumbs forward grip does not work when you can smell what the guy you are fighting with had for lunch. I have been sued in Fed Court for a civil rights violation related to excessive force. I have been shot at in the line of duty. I have used deadly force in the line of duty and been unsuccessful at killing the SOB who was trying to kill me, but I won the fight in the end, even if a little worse for wear. I have been trying to shoot a suspect and had my Glock fail to fire, due to it being pressed against his head and the disconnector working as designed. I am a recognized use of force and case law expert; I am quoted in a Terry Search legal tome regarding criminal behavior and thought processes.

My first issue firearm was a Ruger Speed-Six and I shot about 30k rounds through it in 18 months because I was a bachelor and all my spare money went to bullets, bourbon and practicing speed reloading from my custom Tex Shoemaker 3 speedloader, black, basketweave pouch and dryfire from my Ted Blocker holster for 2-3 hours per night.

I've pointed guns at people for real and managed to survive.

A defensive firearm's most important quality, the one above all others, is that it goes bang when you want a bang. Shootability, no matter how desireable, is a far second when it comes to a defensive firearm. A j-frame, by definition, is not a "go looking for a fight" gun. It is a "Holy shit, this guy is robbing me." kind of gun where you must make an emergency draw that will likely be imperfect and make a shot that will be contact or within 7 yards, at speed, while you are off-balance, startled and most likely in low light conditions. The gun MUST go bang, or you are fucked.

I'll take your advice about competition, but stay in your lane, dude.

jetfire

10-07-2019, 11:26 PM

where your stupid thumbs forward grip does not work

All of that text and yet your real reason for disliking me is buried in the middle. Have a blessed day (or night, it's hard to keep track of what time it is back in the States).

paherne

10-07-2019, 11:31 PM

All of that text and yet your real reason for disliking me is buried in the middle. Have a blessed day (or night, it's hard to keep track of what time it is back in the States).

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, either. Good luck to you, you'll need it.

jetfire

10-07-2019, 11:40 PM

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, either. Good luck to you, you'll need it.

It's hard to reply to your posts when you go back and edit entire paragraphs into them after I already replied, dude.

But to that point: I would never advise someone to modify a gun so that it wasn't reliable with their carry ammo. That's dumb as hell. However, if someone modifies their gun so that it's 100% reliable with say, Federal Gold Medal Match wadcutters but won't crack an S&B primer, that's only an issue if they intend on shooting S&B ammo. If all they're ever going to stick in a gun is Federal Gold Medal Match, and the gun's 100% with those, whether or not it can shoot Winchester White Box, CCI, or whatnot is immaterial.

Now if we're talking about a duty gun that has to eat whatever ammo an agency provides? I definitely wouldn't change the ignition system on that.

Spartan1980

10-07-2019, 11:43 PM

O/P on the newer MIM S&W guns there isn't really much "trigger job" to a trigger job anymore. All that is required is some judicial polishing of the engagement surfaces. If you take a stone and actually remove material the parts will in all likelihood be ruined because the hardened surface is very shallow. The other side of this coin is that MIM hammers and triggers don't need more than a polish normally.

The rebound slide is where a "kitchen table gunsmith" can actually do some good, it's pretty hard to 'eff them up. A fine india stone and some Flitz won't really hurt them unless you are really trying. NOTE: This is on the rebound slide only. Don't stone anything else! Polish = yes, stone = NO.

The main issue with the internal hammer airweights is the internal hammer is small and has little mass. It has to have a stout main spring for ignition. The rebound spring can be lightened, but it HAS TO be able to overcome the main spring. On the bigger framed "full hammer" guns you can get away with lightening up the rebound spring quite a bit in a lot of cases. Much less so with the little internal hammer airweights. If you get sluggish trigger return after lightening up the rebound, go straight back to stock springs everywhere to maintain that spring weight relationship.

If I were sending it out, I'd probably be sending it to Apex as they are able to do things that seem almost impossible with the S&W DA mechanism. They will be able to get it to run with their kit in it if anyone can. You may have some hammer drag going on that you can't see in the 442/642 and that you would see with other models with an exposed hammer. They'll get it lined out. There are others too, but Randy Lee is a maestro on S&W round guns.

spinmove_

10-08-2019, 08:07 AM

Wow, I leave this thread alone for one day and all hell breaks loose. Oh Pistol-Forum, how I love you.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. Sounds like there’s not a ton else that can be done to this gun other than making sure it can reliably ignite primers. If it can’t, it’s probably back to stock springs or send it off to Randy to see what can be done.

I should be able to hit the range soon to function check. Hopefully all is well. But yeah, Federal is all that has seen the inside of that cylinder and honestly, with the bullet weight that is required to shoot to the abysmal sights on this thing, that’s probably all I’ll ever run through it. Apart from maybe some wadcutter loads I start doing by hand. If I do that, I’ll see if CCI primers will work. If not, I can always buy Federal primers.

It is a carry gun that will be taken care of after all. And in all honesty, with the things I’m learning on this thing are of any worth, I’ll probably eventually snag an LCR, throw a fiber front sight on it and some Hogue Bantam grips, and make it the primary to my J’s secondary.

JRV

10-08-2019, 08:25 AM

But yeah, Federal is all that has seen the inside of that cylinder and honestly, with the bullet weight that is required to shoot to the abysmal sights on this thing, that’s probably all I’ll ever run through it.

Were you lucky enough to get one that shoots POA/POI with 148gr?

mtnbkr

10-08-2019, 08:32 AM

What I did for my J-frame (37-2 with bobbed hammer and hammer-mounted firing pin) is to leave the hammer spring alone, install a slightly lighter trigger spring, and use a bit of light grease on the contact surfaces inside. I detail-strip and clean the 37-2 once a year.

Compared directly with my LCR, the trigger is just as smooth, but a bit heavier. I shoot both equally well with regards to the mechanics. The sights on the LCR make it easier to shoot though. Trigger reset with the lighter spring is still faster than I can run the little gun (go too light and you can outrun your reset). It'll pop any primer.

Chris

spinmove_

10-08-2019, 09:13 AM

Were you lucky enough to get one that shoots POA/POI with 148gr?

I was indeed which is why I’m totally digging running the GMMWCs.

spinmove_

10-08-2019, 09:16 AM

JRV

10-08-2019, 09:25 AM

I was indeed which is why I’m totally digging running the GMMWCs.

You lucky SOB. Mine shoots 148gr wadcutters about 2 inches to the right at 10 yards.

Want to trade revolvers? Mine is regularly shot by hands that once shook hands with Hulk Hogan. That adds a real premium.

spinmove_

10-08-2019, 09:38 AM

You lucky SOB. Mine shoots 148gr wadcutters about 2 inches to the right at 10 yards.

Want to trade revolvers? Mine is regularly shot by hands that once shook hands with Hulk Hogan. That adds a real premium.

Nah, I’m good. I’ll take an inch high and dead center at 10 yds.

jetfire

10-09-2019, 03:01 AM

There’s a LOT I really like about the LCR. I just wish someone made a proper set of G10 boot grips for it. Not this 3 finger or 2.5 finger grip stuff. I front pocket carry at least 5 days a week thanks to work being an NPE.

I do think this is an interesting side note, because after shooting and carrying both pretty extensively, I think the best way to fix the trigger on a j-frame is sell it to someone else and buy an LCR.

mtnbkr

10-09-2019, 04:16 AM

I do think this is an interesting side note, because after shooting and carrying both pretty extensively, I think the best way to fix the trigger on a j-frame is sell it to someone else and buy an LCR.

Same here. The sights are another point of improvement. I bought one of those Big Dot J-frame sights that have you grinding the front sight to a little nub in order to glue the new sight on. I probably won't install it now that I have the LCR. Shame they're so homely though.

Chris

jetfire

10-09-2019, 04:29 AM

Same here. The sights are another point of improvement. I bought one of those Big Dot J-frame sights that have you grinding the front sight to a little nub in order to glue the new sight on. I probably won't install it now that I have the LCR. Shame they're so homely though.

Chris

When I go to sleep at night I pray to the revolver gods that Ruger will make a DAO 3 inch LCR. I'll take it in .38 but .327 would be cool too.

mtnbkr

10-09-2019, 04:41 AM

When I go to sleep at night I pray to the revolver gods that Ruger will make a DAO 3 inch LCR. I'll take it in .38 but .327 would be cool too.

Yup. I have avoided the siren song of the 327, but I have a beautiful brass MP Moulds 32cal mould that drops 120gr FP solids and 115gr HPs. I bought it for my 32SWL and 32-20, but it's perfect for 327 (which didn't exist when I bought the mould). A 3" 327 with those bullet loaded to 327 specs and a pocket-full of lite 32SWL loads would be a good "kit" gun load-out for camping/hunting and could pull double duty as a CCW gun in town.

I hope I didn't just talk myself into another LCR should they become available in the 3" DAO 327 you describe. :rolleyes:

Chris

jetfire

10-09-2019, 04:53 AM

Yup. I have avoided the siren song of the 327, but I have a beautiful brass MP Moulds 32cal mould that drops 120gr FP solids and 115gr HPs. I bought it for my 32SWL and 32-20, but it's perfect for 327 (which didn't exist when I bought the mould). A 3" 327 with those bullet loaded to 327 specs and a pocket-full of lite 32SWL loads would be a good "kit" gun load-out for camping/hunting and could pull double duty as a CCW gun in town.

I hope I didn't just talk myself into another LCR should they become available in the 3" DAO 327 you describe. :rolleyes:

Chris

I don't know if they'll ever make it though; 3 inch snubbies are already a pretty niche item, and 3 inch DAO snubbies are so niche as to almost not exist as a factory option. Add the extra weirdness of a .32 to that...and I won't hold my breath about that ever happening. But a boy can hope. The 2 inch LCR in .327 is pretty tempting, but I've managed to resist. They do make a 3 inch SP101 in .327, but it has fixed sights.

JRV

10-09-2019, 05:10 AM

mtnbkr

10-09-2019, 05:56 AM

I don't know if they'll ever make it though; 3 inch snubbies are already a pretty niche item, and 3 inch DAO snubbies are so niche as to almost not exist as a factory option. Add the extra weirdness of a .32 to that...and I won't hold my breath about that ever happening. But a boy can hope. The 2 inch LCR in .327 is pretty tempting, but I've managed to resist. They do make a 3 inch SP101 in .327, but it has fixed sights.

I dunno. Ruger tends to listen to their customers and has released a number of funky revolvers in the past.

Chris

mtnbkr

10-09-2019, 06:02 AM

Y'all need Jesus.

LCRs look like the southbound end of a northbound bulldog on day three of a weeklong chili cleanse.

Sure, J-frames have heavier triggers as a general rule, and, sure, the best you can do without machining the sights off is paint them. But, they're svelte and they have seemingly-infinite grip options.

Have you seen an LCR? Woof.

Yeah, it has a great trigger, but at what cost? Dignity?

I never said they were pretty guns, but for CCW, function beats beauty.

I've owned J-frames for over 20 years now and have primarily carried a j-frame since getting my CCW in 2000. For CCW, I'd rather have an LCR. The factory grips suit me better than any non-fullsized grip I've tried on the J-frame (and I've tried a bunch). The sights are better than the traditional j-frame sights (ie the tiny front that is machined as part of the barrel to go with the notch rear). And then there's the trigger. I'm fine with a broken in j-frame trigger, don't need an Apex kit, but the totality of improvements in the LCR beat a well tuned J-frame for me.

My LCR will never be a BBQ gun and is best toted AIWB or in the pocket, hiding its shame from the world... :)

Chris

JRV

10-09-2019, 06:06 AM

I never said they were pretty guns, but for CCW, function beats beauty.

But how will I LARP as a film-noir private eye?

mtnbkr

10-09-2019, 06:22 AM

But how will I LARP as a film-noir private eye?

Maybe as a bizarro world version? :D

Chris

jetfire

10-09-2019, 07:16 AM

spinmove_

10-09-2019, 07:18 AM

I do think this is an interesting side note, because after shooting and carrying both pretty extensively, I think the best way to fix the trigger on a j-frame is sell it to someone else and buy an LCR.

Given S&W’s propensity to not give two shits about QC at the factory kind of cements why I have a REALLY hard time even considering buying a new one. The only reason why I got this J-frame was because it is as svelte as it is and had the right grip options. Given that I can probably make the Hogue Bantam grips work, swap the front sight for that cool green fiber option, and I don’t have to monkey with the trigger out of the box really makes me want to get one after I get the other gun I want next.

jetfire

10-09-2019, 07:21 AM

Given S&W’s propensity to not give two shits about QC at the factory kind of cements why I have a REALLY hard time even considering buying a new one. The only reason why I got this J-frame was because it is as svelte as it is and had the right grip options. Given that I can probably make the Hogue Bantam grips work, swap the front sight for that cool green fiber option, and I don’t have to monkey with the trigger out of the box really makes me want to get one after I get the other gun I want next.

The only j-frame I have right now is a 351PD, and then because it specifically wanted the lightest j-frame on the planet for running with the dog in Miami. It is really cool, and it's perfect for that niche.

spinmove_

10-09-2019, 08:16 AM

The only j-frame I have right now is a 351PD, and then because it specifically wanted the lightest j-frame on the planet for running with the dog in Miami. It is really cool, and it's perfect for that niche.

And that totally makes sense for that VERY specific niche that you’re doing for maybe an hour a day. It could probably even be replaced by something else in a slightly different carry method fairly easily. But it’s not exactly cost effective, remotely easy to shoot, nor easy to have a backup of.

The LCR solves most of those problems while giving you an option for different front sights.

I know you know that. I’m just stating it for the sake of this discussion.

jetfire

10-09-2019, 08:17 AM

And that totally makes sense for that VERY specific niche that you’re doing for maybe an hour a day. It could probably even be replaced by something else in a slightly different carry method fairly easily. But it’s not exactly cost effective, remotely easy to shoot, nor easy to have a backup of.

The LCR solves most of those problems while giving you an option for different front sights.

I know you know that. I’m just stating it for the sake of this discussion.

Oh definitely, and when people ask me about it I'm very clear that it's a super duper niche gun that I use for a really specific purpose. I wouldn't not recommend it as a primary for like 99% of people.

JRV

10-09-2019, 09:15 AM

Oh definitely . . . I wouldn't not recommend [a 9.5 ounce titanium .22 magnum with a 14-pound trigger that also costs a buttload of money] as a primary for like 99% of people.

Unintentional double negative, or mad genius?

spinmove_

10-09-2019, 09:27 AM

Unintentional double negative, or mad genius?

Yes?

jetfire

10-09-2019, 01:23 PM

Unintentional double negative, or mad genius?

I just switched from night shift to day shift and I'm getting used to being awake when the sun is up?

JRV

10-09-2019, 01:29 PM

I just switched from night shift to day shift and I'm getting used to being awake when the sun is up?

In exhaustion, veritas.

Screw the Hellcat and the P365, you've identified the best concealed carry option for everyone from tier one operators to the geriatric widow neighbor that's deathly afraid of rap music.

OlongJohnson

10-09-2019, 03:47 PM

Reading fail.

Isaac

10-09-2019, 04:45 PM

Nothing to add that hasn’t already been said, but I have two 642s, one I’ve carried and shit for years and a brand new spare. The diff without any apex or polishing is huge.

They making a product called lapping film, that is very easy to cut, and comes in most any fine grit. I say easy to cut bc polishing the frame under the slide bar would be tricky w large bulky sand paper.

willie

10-09-2019, 10:21 PM

I have great success polishing revolvers with Flitz by using a Q tip. Polish inside the frame with with attention to remove burrs or sharp areas where the slide contacts the frame. Don't overlook the slide's interior. Put the slide on a flat surface. Glass is ideal. Apply Fltz to cloth placed on glass. Move slide back and forth. Be certain to apply pressure against the edge contacting frame. Polish contact areas where hammer and trigger move against frame and sideplate. In an aluminum gun, the sideplate is delicate. Polish contact areas carefully.

I disassemble cylinder, and using Flitz on a cloth, I polish these parts gently. I do the same for the barrel of the yoke. Now the next step is essential. With non chlorinated brake parts cleaner, I aggressively blow out all polish and residue.

The ejector rod has a left hand thread. Put rod in a padded vice and turn to the right to unscrew. Place empties in chambers to reduce stress on extractor. This is said not to be necessary on newer guns. I still do it.

I discovered that lubing with Slip 2000 significantly reduces friction. J frames are unforgiving to careless modifying. I have owned a very large number and never saw one that would not smooth up with use. Cutting springs is risky business. My opinion is that setting up defense weapons to function with designated only ammo is not worth the chance of misfires. Ammo is produced in batches or lots. Variation can occur from one to another.