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Chris Rhines
04-15-2012, 05:02 PM
I'm curious - what would happen if I installed a NY1 trigger spring, with the spring part yanked out of it, in an otherwise stock Glock 17?

I have a couple of NY1 springs on the way, so I should know one way or the other by the middle of next week. But like I said, I'm curious. Anyone ever tried this?

-C

JV_
04-15-2012, 05:08 PM
A while back, I tried to dig up some data points on this, unsuccessfully.

A few claim to run them, but I was unable to find any significant round counts associated with that setup. The only thing interesting I was able to find was that it takes a "set" after a while, which reduces the trigger pull weight.

LOKNLOD
04-15-2012, 06:20 PM
Funny you should ask, I've been playing with this exact setup recently and was considering asking if others had any experience. While the removal of the spring doesn't lower the weight as much as I expected, it turned out to be a "sweet spot" on this particular gun/connector/spring combination. I'm getting a very steady pull weight with no discernible stacking before the break. Overall it's a little heavier that I'd normally like a Glock trigger, but its smooth enough to make it very shootable.

The concern of course is that you are now dealing solely with a plastic piece in flexion and not a spring in compression. Since the plastic is not flexing any more in this use than when the spring is in place, I'm not so much worried about fatiguing to the point of breaking, but as JV said taking a set and losing force over time would be a concern. At the very least, I'd say a more frequent replacement cycle might be prudent.

The spring itself feels very stiff when removed, but when you consider the distance it is compressed each cycle it makes sense that it's a pretty high spring rate. I've shopped around to see if I could find a suitable replacement spring with a much lower rate so that it's only real purpose is to support and reinforce the plastic piece, but I haven't gotten my hands on one yet. I found a few candidates, but nothing perfect.

My current round count on it is pretty low, but I finally got a suitable holster so I can start upping the round count.

TCz
04-15-2012, 07:59 PM
I'm interested how this will turn out. Keep us posted LOKNLOD.

LittleLebowski
04-15-2012, 08:01 PM
How about with a weaker spring installed?

TCz
04-15-2012, 08:07 PM
How about with a weaker spring installed?

That's the other thing I was thinking of, just substitute a weaker compression spring.

JV_
04-15-2012, 08:08 PM
What is the pull weight difference with the coil removed?

LOKNLOD
04-15-2012, 08:29 PM
How about with a weaker spring installed?


That's the other thing I was thinking of, just substitute a weaker compression spring.

That's what I'm talking about, finding a lighter spring to up the robustness of the assembly with minimal pull weight added.


What is the pull weight difference with the coil removed?

I don't have a trigger pull scale. Any good "home brew" methods to get a consistent measurement?
The weight difference is not extremely pronounced, on my very subjective finger scale.

TCz
04-15-2012, 09:56 PM
Try Grainger or McMaster-Carr for springs.

Chris Rhines
04-15-2012, 10:32 PM
That's what I'm talking about, finding a lighter spring to up the robustness of the assembly with minimal pull weight added.



I don't have a trigger pull scale. Any good "home brew" methods to get a consistent measurement?
The weight difference is not extremely pronounced, on my very subjective finger scale.

As soon as my NY1 springs show up, I'll put it on Dad's Dvorak triggerscan rig.

-C

LOKNLOD
04-15-2012, 10:38 PM
Try Grainger or McMaster-Carr for springs.

I had a couple likely culprits picked out at McMaster and i'll be danged if I didn't forget to save/mark them...


As soon as my NY1 springs show up, I'll put it on Dad's Dvorak triggerscan rig.

-C

I assume you'll be using it in conjuction with a (-) connector?

TCz
04-15-2012, 11:03 PM
You might want to pick out a bunch and try them, but here's a couple that I think may work.

Based off of very rough measurements of the NY1 spring, the NY1 should have a spring rate of 16-17 lbs/in, so we're looking for spring rates of less than that.

These could be possibles:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Compression-Spring-1NCJ1
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Compression-Spring-1NCG7
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Compression-Spring-1NCK5

Ranked from weakest to strongest. The middle one is likely your best bet. I'm sure you could find equivalents on McMaster, if you prefer.

TCz
04-15-2012, 11:08 PM
Equation for calculating spring constant:

http://www.engineersedge.com/spring_comp_calc_k.htm

Also, the NY1 spring that I have (the new one, I haven't measured the one in my gun) is about 0.42" long. Likely any springs you find will have to be trimmed, except maybe the middle one above, which is .5". Trimming will remove the closed and ground end of the spring, which could make it easier for the spring to slip off of the bosses on the NY1 plastic piece.

Steven C.
04-16-2012, 12:51 AM
Have you considered cutting a coil or two? The spring itself has to fit over a "nipple" in the base of the plastic frame.

littlejerry
04-22-2012, 01:05 PM
Try Century Spring for a huge selection of springs.

$50 minimum order though.

jon volk
02-23-2016, 08:18 PM
Bumping this one from the dead. Anyone have long term experience running without the coil spring? It really does feel like a nice sweet spot without it. It doesn't seem like the plastic would have any different range of motion, so in theory, there should be no real ill effects.

LOKNLOD
02-23-2016, 08:30 PM
Despite loving the feel, i couldn't bring myself to trust it without it.

I did pick up a reduced strength spring to replace it with, and have run with that for quite a while.

Worse case scenario, run without the spring and just swap it on an aggressive schedule.

DacoRoman
02-23-2016, 08:44 PM
Despite loving the feel, i couldn't bring myself to trust it without it.

I did pick up a reduced strength spring to replace it with, and have run with that for quite a while.

Worse case scenario, run without the spring and just swap it on an aggressive schedule.

Where did you purchase it and what strength did you go with, if I may ask?

I have the ny-1 without the spring and a minus connector in a G19 but I only have around 1000 rounds through that set up. I have to say that I also think that this trigger set up would be my favorite for a carry gun if not for the durability concerns.

LOKNLOD
02-24-2016, 12:06 AM
Where did you purchase it and what strength did you go with, if I may ask?

I have the ny-1 without the spring and a minus connector in a G19 but I only have around 1000 rounds through that set up. I have to say that I also think that this trigger set up would be my favorite for a carry gun if not for the durability concerns.

I got them via McMaster-Carr, and bought several "almost" candidates to try, but I'll have to go dig them out to get part numbers. I cant find any record of the order in my email archive to reference.

DacoRoman
02-24-2016, 09:39 PM
I got them via McMaster-Carr, and bought several "almost" candidates to try, but I'll have to go dig them out to get part numbers. I cant find any record of the order in my email archive to reference.

Thank you for the info. I read this thread already but I can't recall, did anyone state what spring weight rating the OEM spring has? Do you remember what weight you purchased without digging for the info? Thanks again.

ST911
02-24-2016, 11:31 PM
There's a bit of a demand for the old black NY springs, for this reason.

littlejerry
02-24-2016, 11:43 PM
I would not recommend running without a spring. The plastic is guaranteed to creep and relax over time.

You may try Century Spring for a larger selection. They have a $50 minimum though.

Also keep in mind that cutting coils will increase your spring rate. I'd recommend finding a stock spring with closed ends which doesn't require trimming.

LOKNLOD
02-24-2016, 11:55 PM
Thank you for the info. I read this thread already but I can't recall, did anyone state what spring weight rating the OEM spring has? Do you remember what weight you purchased without digging for the info? Thanks again.

It was shortly after this original thread started that I ordered them, so I don't remember the numbers exactly, but somehow I was able to find a spring rate for the OEM spring and take some measurements and find a very close size with reduced rate via McMaster. I ordered a few different ones to try and these are the ones I found worked best:

6132

Here they are uninstalled and installed into an olive ny1 "frame":
(OEMs on the right)
6133
(Sorry for the crappy closet photography)

It does feel as nice as the plastic part only, but it is lighter than the OEM. Pairing it up with a nicely polished minus connector in a well broken in Gen3 works best. It unfortunately didn't replicate as well in a low mileage Gen4 with either minus or dot connector.

LOKNLOD
02-24-2016, 11:59 PM
There's a bit of a demand for the old black NY springs, for this reason.

I think someone could be successful with an aftermarket version that gives the longer consistent feel coupled with a more reasonable overall break. An aftermarket NY-0, if you will.

DacoRoman
02-25-2016, 08:32 PM
It was shortly after this original thread started that I ordered them, so I don't remember the numbers exactly, but somehow I was able to find a spring rate for the OEM spring and take some measurements and find a very close size with reduced rate via McMaster. I ordered a few different ones to try and these are the ones I found worked best:

6132

Here they are uninstalled and installed into an olive ny1 "frame":
(OEMs on the right)
6133
(Sorry for the crappy closet photography)

It does feel as nice as the plastic part only, but it is lighter than the OEM. Pairing it up with a nicely polished minus connector in a well broken in Gen3 works best. It unfortunately didn't replicate as well in a low mileage Gen4 with either minus or dot connector.

Excellent! Thank you very much!