Hard To Watch: Mob Beatdown of Lone Individual (Forewarned is Forearmed)

[blues]

This one comes from Active Self Protection this morning. Regardless of stupid games, stupid prizes, it's hard not to be completely sickened by what transpires here.

This video is a great wake-up call to those who cannot fathom the level of evil that exists in their own backyards...


https://youtu.be/zMG9CCJiQKk

[RevolverRob]

That event is brutal and, unfortunately, unsurprising (to me at least). Teenage offenders are often some of the harshest and fastest to act/attack.

I actively avoid groups of young men and women (of any race) - like I try my best to avoid interacting with drunk people. In both cases, it seems the lack of inhibition and cognition that results in bad things.

[fixer]

Really beyond description of how ridiculous that was.

Behavior like that is why society will always need cops ready to thump skulls, not social workers.

[JohnO]

Really beyond description of how ridiculous that was.

Behavior like that is why society will always need cops ready to thump skulls, not social workers.

It's really difficult for me to believe that any of the perpetrators in that video will ever become contributing members of a civil society. (Oh excuse me 'alleged' perpetrators.)

Certainly not with the societal rules in play today. However as fixer stated above, perhaps if someone cracked them upside their heads they just might be motivated to drift in a positive direction. Even then I'm still not going to hold me breath waiting for the transformation.

[blues]

Some back story:

https://www.fox9.com/news/targeted-for-cell-phones-robbery-victims-beaten-in-downtown-minneapolis-crime-spree



MINNEAPOLIS (FOX 9) - Minneapolis Police have broken up a loosely-organized violent downtown crime ring that focused on getting cell phones from drunk people and then beating the victims.

During a three-day sweep a couple of weeks ago, cops arrested 16 people, one as young as 13. The assailants punched, kicked and even rode over one man with a bike.

Most of these robberies and assaults happened along Hennepin, 1st, and 2nd Avenues, between 3rd and 6th Streets, and mostly after 10 p.m.

In one of the cases, a man was looking at his cell phone at 5th and Hennepin at 4 a.m. Another man started up a conversation and within seconds, the victim was surrounded by six others and brutally beaten. They left him unconscious on the sidewalk.

A few days earlier and a few blocks away, people were playing a dice game at Target Field plaza when they swiped a man's cell phone. The victim was stripped, punched and kicked in the head. He was defenseless as the suspects jumped on him, threw potted plants on him and rode over him with a bike...

...Robbery is up 46% in downtown Minneapolis from last year. In a three-week period in August, there were 47 robberies, and the prize each time was a smart phone.

Bill Peterson is the new inspector downtown and told FOX 9 that the groups of males - and sometimes females - were targeting drunk people. Sometimes they asked for a cigarette, to use a phone or, in at least one case, picked the pockets of an unsuspecting downtowner.

There’s a name for the coordinated mugging.

"The groups we talk to call it, 'finessing.' They're finessing the victim, they’re trying to figure out victim's stability intoxication,” said Sgt. Darcy Klund, who leads the downtown Community Response Team.

CELLS FOR CASH

Police believe many of the phones are ending up at self-service kiosks, which people can use to trade in old phones for cash. One of the more common is called ECO ATM, and there are more than 40 kiosks in Minnesota.

[Totem Polar]

Tough stuff to watch. Could have been worse, though.

[serialsolver]

I may have posted something that could have been offensive or insensitive to victims of a terrible event this month several years ago, hence the reason for my edit.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JohnO]

There’s a name for the coordinated mugging.

"The groups we talk to call it, 'finessing.' They're finessing the victim, they’re trying to figure out victim's stability intoxication,” said Sgt. Darcy Klund, who leads the downtown Community Response Team.

CELLS FOR CASH

Police believe many of the phones are ending up at self-service kiosks, which people can use to trade in old phones for cash. One of the more common is called ECO ATM, and there are more than 40 kiosks in Minnesota.

In New Haven, Connecticut the thugs nicknamed their exploits, "Apple Picking". i-Phones being the predominate smartphone in use and it was easy to target a Yalie or any pedestrian staring zombie like at their phone.

New Haven PD ran a sweep of the pawn shops & low end wireless stores looking for stolen phones. They called it "Apple Harvest". It made the news when one shop owner got pinched not for stolen property but for having over the state mandated 10 rounds in a magazine.

[JodyH]

It made the news when one shop owner got pinched not for stolen property but for having over the state mandated 10 rounds in a magazine.
That'd be funny if it wasn't true.
That 11th round will cost that productive, tax paying citizen far more life changing grief than any of these feral youths will receive from the justice system.

[41magfan]

If you've never dealt with miscreants like this before, you can't fully comprehend the level of depravity they're capable of exhibiting. In any event, it's a universal reality that if you look like food - you will likely be eaten.

[Totem Polar]

That 11th round will cost that productive, tax paying citizen far more life changing grief than any of these feral youths will receive from the justice system.

QFMFT

[Drang]

This one comes from Active Self Protection this morning. Regardless of stupid games, stupid prizes, it's hard not to be completely sickened by what transpires here.

This video is a great wake-up call to those who cannot fathom the level of evil that exists in their own backyards...


https://youtu.be/zMG9CCJiQKk

#MinnesotaNice (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=MinnesotaNice) .

[Old Man Winter]

Welcome to Minneapolis! Downtown has been a shit show for as long as I can remember. In the last 10-15 years they've put a lot of emphasis on revamping downtown with housing, nightlife, stadiums, etc. Perhaps they need to throw a few bucks at law enforcement as well. Between the hood rats, homeless, terrorists, and liberals, downtown Minneapolis is a great place.

[blues]

The old TPF that was a thing when I was growing up in NYC would have had a field day with these scum...

42858

[Totem Polar]

The old TPF that was a thing when I was growing up in NYC would have had a field day with these scum...

42858

^^^I might like to know more about this... :)

[blues]

^^^I might like to know more about this... :)



https://www.google.com/search?q=nypd+tpf&rlz=1CAHFRG_enUS862US862&oq=nypd+tpf&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2.3343j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


(When I was a kid I had occasion to encounter them once or twice. They were an intimidating bunch...especially when they had the mounted officers along.)

[RoyGBiv]

^^^I might like to know more about this... :)
Watch Goodfellas to set the mood.

[blues]

Watch Goodfellas to set the mood.

Now those guys I can really talk about...

(Not the actors.)

[GardoneVT]

Tough stuff to watch. Could have been worse, though.

The flip side to the story is he pulls a concealed gun, shoots one in justified self defense, and gets charged and tried by a politically ambitious DA. Though acquitted of criminal charges, he’s then sued for wrongful death by the ventilated teen’s family.

Surviving the attack involves more then just the (important) physical dimension.

[Zincwarrior]

This one comes from Active Self Protection this morning. Regardless of stupid games, stupid prizes, it's hard not to be completely sickened by what transpires here.

This video is a great wake-up call to those who cannot fathom the level of evil that exists in their own backyards...


https://youtu.be/zMG9CCJiQKk

Rule #1: Don't be around mobs. This includes mobs of clowns; children; and hungry wiener dogs.*

*Rule #1 does not apply to mobs of cute puppies.

[rob_s]

So what's the lesson here?

Seems primarily to fall under the "don't do stupid shit in stupid places with stupid people and you'll be fine" rule.

[Zincwarrior]

Don't be drunk in public.
Don't be drunk and get surrounded by a bunch of people.
Don't tell someone from Chicago that NY style pizza is better.

[blues]

So what's the lesson here?

Seems primarily to fall under the "don't do stupid shit in stupid places with stupid people and you'll be fine" rule.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "you'll be fine", as there are no guarantees in life, but it would probably lessen your chances of getting involved in something catastrophic as depicted in the video.

As I said in the OP, "stupid games / stupid prizes" aside...nobody deserves this.

But as Clint Eastwood's character "Will Munny" said in "Unforgiven":


https://youtu.be/OuvEJ-U1UDc

"Deserve's got nothin' to do with it".

[JodyH]

Hard to get eaten by a shark if you never swim in the ocean.
Not impossible (https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/matawan-new-jersey-shark-attack-of-1916)... just hard.

[TAZ]

Hard to get eaten by a shark if you never swim in the ocean.
Not impossible (https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/matawan-new-jersey-shark-attack-of-1916)... just hard.

There is a chance of Sharknado!!

This was hard to watch for sure. Being drunk in general is stupid. Being drunk in public is absolutely retarded. Walking up to a group of asshats playing dice or craps or whatever... Seriously? Sounds like some idiot college kid who fell for the whole all people are good and decent and all that crap they shove down folks throats these days. Thankfully he was able to walk away without serious injuries and received an education. $1000 phone, some medical bills, and a new pair of underwear are probably going to teach him more than that $100k degree.

[HeavyDuty]

That event is brutal and, unfortunately, unsurprising (to me at least). Teenage offenders are often some of the harshest and fastest to act/attack.

I actively avoid groups of young men and women (of any race) - like I try my best to avoid interacting with drunk people. In both cases, it seems the lack of inhibition and cognition that results in bad things.

One of the reasons I no longer take visitors to North Michigan Avenue in Chicago...

[Yung]

Some discussion of this in the most recent podcast for Civilian Carry Radio in the first half hour or so.

Claude Werner said his initial impression would be to hose everyone down with OC and run like hell.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2oVZAFpfqI

[blues]

I have nothing but respect for Claude Werner but that doesn't resonate with me on a number of levels.

[Yung]

Frankly, visualizing myself as the victims in the two beatings with those youths doesn't resonate with me on a number of levels either.

The points he discussed shortly after that sound bite (about 15 minutes in) in regards to his age and seeing his father in a wheelchair for the first time are some good nuggets to consider when it comes to being able to justify lethal force on grounds of disparity, though.

[blues]

Frankly, visualizing myself as the victims in the two beatings with those youths doesn't resonate with me on a number of levels either.

The points he discussed shortly after that sound bite (about 15 minutes in) in regards to his age and seeing his father in a wheelchair for the first time are some good nuggets to consider when it comes to being able to justify lethal force on grounds of disparity, though.

Yep. My father was an excellent athlete in his younger years but spent his later years in a wheelchair due to the ravages of diabetes.

I workout to keep myself in shape but I'd be kidding myself at 66 to think that I could outrun or outfight multiple young assailants who intend to do me harm. Add to that my hands have enough damage from years past that striking would pretty much be a bad choice. (Unless hammer fists, elbows or knees were employed which means you are now pretty much entwined...not good, imho.)

I might try to level one or two of the nearest goblins with a sap hoping that it might dissuade the others, but the decision to break leather is one that would be very prominent in my mind from the jump. I don't think I'd have a lot of trouble articulating my reasoning.

[JodyH]

I might try to level one or two of the nearest goblins with a sap hoping that it might dissuade the others, but the decision to break leather is one that would be very prominent in my mind from the jump. I don't think I'd have a lot of trouble articulating my reasoning.
If I could articulate sapping one of them hard enough to make an impression on the rest of the gang, I could use that same articulation to justify shooting him and have a much better chance of escaping unharmed.

[Totem Polar]

Yeah, my most decidedly amateur internet opinion is that "Warren on Homicide" gave us the dope on mobs. That, and being aware of the average ECQC student’s ability to handle multiple attackers* makes me inclined to A: stay away from scenes like that and B: get aggressive enough, early enough should said scene visit itself upon me through some chain failures.

^^^The soundbites: all the ones necessary have appeared on this forum before.


(*I did see one young Marine SF dude manhandle two dedicated participants with remarkable aplomb during an EWO once, but that guy was younger, fitter, considerably more experienced, and smarter than average, for sure. Most folks don’t travel with those sorts of attributes on tap. JMO)

[blues]

If I could articulate sapping one of them hard enough to make an impression on the rest of the gang, I could use that same articulation to justify shooting him and have a much better chance of escaping unharmed.

This is, or at least may be, true. I was trying to think of alternatives to the gun as a first response. The latter response is the more probable if one found themselves immersed in that situation.

[JodyH]

This is, or at least may be, true. I was trying to think of alternatives to the gun as a first response. The latter response is the more probable if one found themselves immersed in that situation.

Maybe a compromise and use a J-frame to throat punch the closest goblin?

[blues]

Maybe a compromise and use a J-frame to throat punch the closest goblin?

You could probably pull it off, Jody. I don't know that I'd risk it.

[blues]

Another Minnesota video with a similar theme and outcome:


https://youtu.be/bgdtdV8WZao

[Darth_Uno]

Another Minnesota video with a similar theme and outcome:


https://youtu.be/bgdtdV8WZao

You can watch the Stupid-O-Meter slowly get turned up to 11. Nobody deserves that but damn. Millions of years of evolution completely ignored.

[blues]

You can watch the Stupid-O-Meter slowly get turned up to 11. Nobody deserves that but damn. Millions of years of evolution completely ignored.

I agree, his inability to assess and respond to his environment are telling and sad...but it upsets my inner sheepdog no end. I can't help it.

[JodyH]

I avoid groups of unknown males between the ages of 16 and 30.
If that group is of a different race, ethnicity or identity than I am there's no way in hell I will voluntarily get in the middle of them.
Humans are tribal and males that age are the most likely to wage war on another tribe.

[blues]

I avoid groups of unknown males between the ages of 16 and 30.
If that group is of a different race than I am there's no way in hell I will voluntarily get in the middle of them.
Humans are tribal and males that age are the most likely to wage war on another tribe.

Good rules, Jody. I don't know if these people are simply oblivious or what. (The first video's vic was probably impaired...but I don't know for a fact.)

It's hard not to blame the victims for their ignorance and obliviousness but nonetheless it rankles just the same.

I realize it's not my circus and no way would I put myself (alone) into that situation after it's jumped off, but damn I'd love to have been part of a task force to administer a little justice to those lowlife scumbags.

[Lex Luthier]

I watched these videos via a local Facebook neighborhood group thread last week. The other viewers were aghast that people could act that way.
It is a lively entertainment district, but has never really been cleaned up, like say, Times Square was during the Giuliani administration.

It is telling that my wife knew not to hang out there after dark in her youth in the mid 1970s, and none of my kids (all in their 30s now)will do so after 10 pm, or in groups of less than 4, or unarmed. My eldest won't go there at all.

[JodyH]

Good rules, Jody. I don't know if these people are simply oblivious or what.
From 16 up until my mid 20's I was pretty much oblivious to dangerous people.
As a kid you're much more attuned to dangerous people, as a teen/young adult you think you have it all figured out.
Looking back I now recognize several situations in my past that could have gone bad for me in a heartbeat because I was young and dumb and assumed everybody i was interacting with had the same general value system I had.

[Darth_Uno]

...and assumed everybody i was interacting with had the same general value system I had.

That's where a lot of the disconnect is. Some folks don't acknowledge (or willfully ignore) that some other folks really truly do not give a flying fornication about you. If you have something they want, they will take it with no qualms and they'll do it again tomorrow if you let them.

[SouthNarc]

I was in Minneapolis about three weeks ago drinking on Hennepin well after midnight with a lady friend. A couple of groups sized us up and moved on.

[blues]

I was in Minneapolis about three weeks ago drinking on Hennepin well after midnight with a lady friend. A couple of groups sized us up and moved on.

Smart crew. They must've taken DWECQAW*










*Don't Want Extreme Close Quarters Ass Whuppin'

[ranger]

How does this fit into a previous thread (a while back) on gun choice and how many rounds might you need. This seems to support the G19 plus reload sizing (or S&W M&P 2.0 Compact :D.

[11B10]

I wouldn't go so far as to say "you'll be fine", as there are no guarantees in life, but it would probably lessen your chances of getting involved in something catastrophic as depicted in the video.

As I said in the OP, "stupid games / stupid prizes" aside...nobody deserves this.

But as Clint Eastwood's character "Will Munny" said in "Unforgiven":


https://youtu.be/OuvEJ-U1UDc

"Deserve's got nothin' to do with it".





blues, ya did it again....one of my favorite lines from one of my favorite movies.

[11B10]

I was in Minneapolis about three weeks ago drinking on Hennepin well after midnight with a lady friend. A couple of groups sized us up and moved on.



Apparently, they're not all clueless.

[11B10]

Jody - ah, the ideas we had when we were young - ignorance truly was bliss. Big? Oh yeah. Strong? Without a doubt. Stupid? Most definitely...felt I would live forever.

blues, the realization of my true physical limitations as I've aged is the most sobering thought I've ever had. Scary stuff, for sure.

[TheRoland]

How does this fit into a previous thread (a while back) on gun choice and how many rounds might you need. This seems to support the G19 plus reload sizing (or S&W M&P 2.0 Compact :D.

Without adding details that will out me, several years ago I left a restaurant in a southern state, walked 5 blocks to the hotel I was staying in, went up to my room and turned on the news. By the end of the news program, they ran a story about a little kid that had been beaten by a large group of attackers at the restaurant while I was walking back to my hotel. I belive he eventually died.

If I'd taken 5 more minutes before getting my check, I would have been there. With a J-Frame. And well more than 5 people that I might have wanted to shoot.

[Joe in PNG]

Jody - ah, the ideas we had when we were young - ignorance truly was bliss. Big? Oh yeah. Strong? Without a doubt. Stupid? Most definitely...felt I would live forever.

blues, the realization of my true physical limitations as I've aged is the most sobering thought I've ever had. Scary stuff, for sure.

Wasn't there an old saying about how young people believe themselves to be immortal, invisible, and infertile?

[fixer]

Another Minnesota video with a similar theme and outcome:



Lot of uncivilization in civilization.

[mtnbkr]

I have nothing but respect for Claude Werner but that doesn't resonate with me on a number of levels.

Why?

Chris

[blues]

Why?

Chris

I don't think the spray is going to get the desired result in the circumstances.

It may very well run out, assuming there is not a mechanical failure or poor environmental conditions; will not provide enough of a screen for someone like myself who is no longer particularly fleet of foot to outdistance the mob; and may not be enough to dissuade others from carrying on the beatdown.

On the other hand, disabling one or two quickly with a sap or, if necessary, a firearm, may very well give the mob pause enough to desist while you make an exit.

No guarantees either way. It's just not my tool of choice.

I've always viewed pepper spray as a compliance tool, not as a defense against an attack. Others with much more experience with it would have more relevant observations or opinions.

[mtnbkr]

I don't think the spray is going to get the desired result in the circumstances.

It may very well run out, assuming there is not a mechanical failure or poor environmental conditions; will not provide enough of a screen for someone like myself who is no longer particularly fleet of foot to outdistance the mob; and may not be enough to dissuade others from carrying on the beatdown.

On the other hand, disabling one or two quickly with a sap or, if necessary, a firearm, may very well give the mob pause enough to desist while you make an exit.

No guarantees either way. It's just not my tool of choice.

I've always viewed pepper spray as a compliance tool, not as a defense against an attack. Others with much more experience with it would have more relevant observations or opinions.

That makes sense. Watching the video, the only time where it appears to me that a weapon could be deployed legally would be after he was already being pummeled by multiple people. It seemed to go from no physical attack to overwhelming force, at which point they had him facing away from his attackers. I'm not sure he could have pulled a gun and put it to use effectively. He might have been able to use spray against the original thief at the moment his phone was snatched and possibly creating some space to move (some force early on vs a lot later if at all).

Personally, I would have put the phone away while being such close proximity to a bunch of people I didn't know. Also, I would have been moving out of that circle every time they oriented around me. I certainly would have been gone the moment the guy put his arm around me like happened in the video. I don't know why he just stood there with those guys unless he knew them.

Chris

[blues]

That makes sense. Watching the video, the only time where it appears to me that a weapon could be deployed legally would be after he was already being pummeled by multiple people. It seemed to go from no physical attack to overwhelming force, at which point they had him facing away from his attackers. I'm not sure he could have pulled a gun and put it to use effectively. He might have been able to use spray against the original thief at the moment his phone was snatched and possibly creating some space to move (some force early on vs a lot later if at all).

Personally, I would have put the phone away while being such close proximity to a bunch of people I didn't know. Also, I would have been moving out of that circle every time they oriented around me. I certainly would have been gone the moment the guy put his arm around me like happened in the video. I don't know why he just stood there with those guys unless he knew them.

Chris

Naturally, Chris, my comments were prefaced on neither of us being as oblivious to our surroundings as the individual(s) in the videos...and simply finding ourselves, (and being aware), that we were in a potentially bad, (evolving), situation that might call for action before anything actually jumped off.

I completely agree that once the beatdown begins the opportunity for an effective defense is diminished exponentially.

[mtnbkr]

Naturally, Chris, my comments were prefaced on neither of us being as oblivious to our surroundings as the individual(s) in the videos...and simply finding ourselves, (and being aware), that we were in a potentially bad, (evolving), situation that might call for action before anything actually jumped off.

I combined two trains of thought and didn't mean to imply otherwise. I was just commenting on how that guy missed multiple hints that something was about to happen. It was making me uncomfortable well before the beating took place.

Chris

[blues]

I combined two trains of thought and didn't mean to imply otherwise. I was just commenting on how that guy missed multiple hints that something was about to happen. It was making me uncomfortable well before the beating took place.

Chris

Yep. The all-seeing camera eye helps to emphatically disclose the ever tightening concentric circles and put things in dramatic perspective.

[TAZ]

Apparently, they're not all clueless.

Thugs are incredibly tuned machines. Unlike “civilized” folks they rarely spend their youth sizing up which Xbox they are getting for Christmas. From early on they downs hard earned blood learning how to size up the opposition. This is why they know very well who is the meat and who is carnivore in most situations. One of the biggest problems with civilized society is that we stifle this skill in kids. All the no fighting crap and such stifle that development. Letting kids get into scuffles teaches critical skills. Not just the physical ones, but the mental ones. How to judge an opponent. How to judge a situation. Understanding just had freaking fast shit goes sideways are all incredibly useful skill sets. Yet we stifle it cause of fake beliefs in civilized society.


Lot of uncivilization in civilization.

Civilization is a thin veneer. No idea who said that, but someone smarter than me. It’s pretend and can disappear in nano seconds. People just choose to believe it’s something permanent and equally valued by all. It’s easier to deal with than the thought you may be constantly swimming with sharks. It’s also easier and beneficial to promote if you’re looking to gain more control over folks. I know. Tinfoil is slipping.

[blues]

https://thumbor.thedailymeal.com/K73bkq374M-RoGWVJzUW_jbrVJE=/774x516/https://www.theactivetimes.com/sites/default/files/uploads/F/FRONT%20rsz_1bigfishexpeditions1_0.png

"I knew I should have left the iPhone home."

[11B10]

Thugs are incredibly tuned machines. Unlike “civilized” folks they rarely spend their youth sizing up which Xbox they are getting for Christmas. From early on they downs hard earned blood learning how to size up the opposition. This is why they know very well who is the meat and who is carnivore in most situations. One of the biggest problems with civilized society is that we stifle this skill in kids. All the no fighting crap and such stifle that development. Letting kids get into scuffles teaches critical skills. Not just the physical ones, but the mental ones. How to judge an opponent. How to judge a situation. Understanding just had freaking fast shit goes sideways are all incredibly useful skill sets. Yet we stifle it cause of fake beliefs in civilized society.



Civilization is a thin veneer. No idea who said that, but someone smarter than me. It’s pretend and can disappear in nano seconds. People just choose to believe it’s something permanent and equally valued by all. It’s easier to deal with than the thought you may be constantly swimming with sharks. It’s also easier and beneficial to promote if you’re looking to gain more control over folks. I know. Tinfoil is slipping.



TAZ, re: your first paragraph - if anyone wants to become educated in how violence is passed on, I strongly recommend reading "Violence of Mind," by Varg Freeborn. I'm pretty sure it was discussed here on p-f before. It was recommended by Greg Ellifritz on his website, "Active Response
Training." The only site I visit more often is this one.

[Coyotesfan97]

I’d throw Marc MacYoung’s book In the Name of Self Defense in there along with his other books.