Back injury making me move away from string side IWB, where do I go?

[Jeremy45]

Hello everyone,

I've had back problems off and on for years and it finally got bad earlier in the year. I have multiple bulging discs in my lower back and have been doing physical therapy to get them back in place the best I can. That has helped tremendously but I've carried very little during that time while I am healing. The doc and the therapist don't ever see me getting back to 100% and I want to get back to carrying regularly. I've carried a 19 and for the past 3 years a 17 strong side IWB but when I get to the end of the day now I'm in pain and my back is very stiff. I'm not sure where to go from here, I think it has more to do with tightening a belt and having the gun push on me than weight but I don't think I can get away with carrying a 17 owb. Has anyone else delt with this, what was your solution? I'm honestly considering carrying a air weight j frame on both sides owb because it think I can hide them and the weight will be evenly distributed. Playing with the only revolver I have (Dan Wesson 6" 357) I also think I may can hide a k frame AIWB. I for the life of me can't get a Glock grip not to print AIWB but I've only tried a couple holsters. I've always liked strong side, it conceals well and I don't have to move to a da/sa platform to be comfortable.

Now that I'm having to make a change anyway, I'm looking for input on how to most comfortably, easily and safely transition away from string side IWB.

Build: 6'1, 250LB
Attire: jeans and an untucked polo/button down. Own a business but visit customers so I don't like to print but won't get fired.

[That Guy]

I think it has more to do with tightening a belt and having the gun push on me

Would a different belt allow you to wear it looser?

[Jason M]

43X AIWB in a JMCK or a Phlstr flex type set up? I have a co-worker with some of the same back issues. He carries a 45 OWB and may try this combo.

[jack malone]

Try OWB or AIWB with a 43x or P365.
That worked for me.

[CraigS]

These might help. I haven't tried them but it makes sense to me that, w/ suspenders taking a % of the weight, your belt won't need to be as tight.
https://gunbelts.com/blog/suspenders-vs-belt/

[JonInWA]

If you're willing to change your daily outfit to accommodate the rig, you might want to try a quality shoulder holster; I also had some hip flexor nerve issues relatively recently, and the shoulder holster route worked decently well for me during my recovery period.

Best, Jon

[JAD]

A light gun aiwb sounds worth exploring. G43, lightweight commander, or maybe G48 (which I worry might not be better enough) in an SME or JMCK.

[El Cid]

I’ve had lower back problems since I was in the military. MRI showed herniations on my lumbar discs. I switched from IWB to OWB and it helped a great deal. As has been discussed, try the following:

Lighter gun
OWB holster
Smaller gun
Shoulder rig (needs to be balanced to avoid further aggravation of your back)
Standing desk
Last resort - crossdraw (harder to conceal and protect)
Suspenders - I use this on my duty belt but not for concealed carry.

And the one I find most helpful- a quality belt designed to carry a gun. Every coworker I’ve had complain about their back has tried this and thanked me profusely. It still amazes me how many folks carry a gun on a belt they got at the mall.

And the most important thing for your back and overall quality of life is to try and get healthy. Whatever it takes because if you don’t the back issues only get worse as you age. I’ve been able to go back to IWB the last year or so. I only use OWB (or shoulder rig) on long road trips.

Good luck!

[BehindBlueI's]

I also think I may can hide a k frame AIWB.

I'm not quite your size but can conceal a GP100 MC in jeans and a t-shirt. An LCR AIWB is even more betterer as far as ease of concealment and comfort. One of the advantages of appendix carry is even if you are dealing with a limited range of motion you can get to it.

[Lost River]

I have fought the same issue off and on for years. In fact I just jacked up my back a couple days ago and am trying to recuperate. Definitely don't want another back surgery before elk season...

I run OWB rigs primarily, and the suspenders suggestion is an excellent one.

Dickies makes a pair that work very well. They have hooks to work in conjunction with a gunbelt.



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001VNBAYU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

[AKDoug]

I have fought the same issue off and on for years. In fact I just jacked up my back a couple days ago and am trying to recuperate. Definitely don't want another back surgery before elk season...

I run OWB rigs primarily, and the suspenders suggestion is an excellent one.

Dickies makes a pair that work very well. They have hooks to work in conjunction with a gunbelt.



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001VNBAYU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

Suspenders are a big help for me. To be able to wear an OWB and a cover shirt, you have to wear the suspenders under the primary shirt. When it's hot out, I forgo an undershirt and it really felt weird at first. I got used to it and everyone around me appreciates the lack of plumbers crack and my back appreciates the help holding up the pistol. I carry a G19 daily. I also wear Dickies button up work shirts in a tall cut, even though I'm not that tall.

I get my suspenders from these folks and use the trigger snap models. https://hickmansaddlery.net/suspenders

I've lost a bunch of weight, which has helped my back immensely and I'm now looking at tuckable AIWB and suspenders on the outside. The jury is still out on weather I can make it work.

added on edit** yes, I wear both a belt and suspenders.

[Jeremy45]

Would a different belt allow you to wear it looser?

These might help. I haven't tried them but it makes sense to me that, w/ suspenders taking a % of the weight, your belt won't need to be as tight.
https://gunbelts.com/blog/suspenders-vs-belt/

Unfortunately, when I go lighter on the belt everything likes to slide down which has me fidgeting with my pants all the time. I see guys tugging at their pants all the time and it always looks like a tell that they are carrying a gun. But maybe Suspenders are the answer to this problem. I can go lighter on the belt without everything sliding down.



I have fought the same issue off and on for years. In fact I just jacked up my back a couple days ago and am trying to recuperate. Definitely don't want another back surgery before elk season...

I run OWB rigs primarily, and the suspenders suggestion is an excellent one.

Dickies makes a pair that work very well. They have hooks to work in conjunction with a gunbelt.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001VNBAYU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

I'll take a look at those. Have you found it any harder to conceal OWB vs IWB? Seems like barrel length is a bit more of a concern, otherwise not much difference?


Suspenders are a big help for me. To be able to wear an OWB and a cover shirt, you have to wear the suspenders under the primary shirt. When it's hot out, I forgo an undershirt and it really felt weird at first. I got used to it and everyone around me appreciates the lack of plumbers crack and my back appreciates the help holding up the pistol. I carry a G19 daily. I also wear Dickies button up work shirts in a tall cut, even though I'm not that tall.

I get my suspenders from these folks and use the trigger snap models. https://hickmansaddlery.net/suspenders

I've lost a bunch of weight, which has helped my back immensely and I'm now looking at tuckable AIWB and suspenders on the outside. The jury is still out on weather I can make it work.

added on edit** yes, I wear both a belt and suspenders.

Haha, I don't see how anyone could get away with just suspenders. That makes sense and I wear an undershirt all the time already. I've always told the wife when I retire, get "old & cranky" that I'm going to wear suspenders all time. She just rolls her eyes but I don't think I can get away with suspenders 30years early!! I think I am going to give the OWB/suspenders thing a go. I just joined the local junior college sports center with the intention of swimming and doing some minor weight lighting to shed some weight. AIWB looks like a great solution as the gun isn't pushing in from the side but I don't see how in the world I could sit with one at the moment.



Thank you guys for the input and the suspender suggestions. For the OWB guys, what holsters have you found that conceal well?

[Jeremy45]

If you're willing to change your daily outfit to accommodate the rig, you might want to try a quality shoulder holster; I also had some hip flexor nerve issues relatively recently, and the shoulder holster route worked decently well for me during my recovery period.

Best, Jon

Does the shoulder holster work ok under a button down shirt? I'm in west Texas so we only wear jackets/vests 3-4 months out of the year. I think I would have to go a bit lighter on the gun to pull this off as well? It's still not comfortable to have a lot of weight on my shoulders, especially if it's not even. What shoulder rig do you go with?

[Jeremy45]

I’ve had lower back problems since I was in the military. MRI showed herniations on my lumbar discs. I switched from IWB to OWB and it helped a great deal. As has been discussed, try the following:

Lighter gun
OWB holster
Smaller gun
Shoulder rig (needs to be balanced to avoid further aggravation of your back)
Standing desk
Last resort - crossdraw (harder to conceal and protect)
Suspenders - I use this on my duty belt but not for concealed carry.

And the one I find most helpful- a quality belt designed to carry a gun. Every coworker I’ve had complain about their back has tried this and thanked me profusely. It still amazes me how many folks carry a gun on a belt they got at the mall.

And the most important thing for your back and overall quality of life is to try and get healthy. Whatever it takes because if you don’t the back issues only get worse as you age. I’ve been able to go back to IWB the last year or so. I only use OWB (or shoulder rig) on long road trips.

Good luck!

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately a lot of guys that I know who served in the middle east have come back with back injuries. They're not fun at all and I want to get my back taken care of. I had gotten comfortable with off body carry and was doing ok until we had a guy go on a shooting spree in the town we live in. At that point I decided I didn't have the luxury of not having a gun on me but ruining my back and not being able to play with my kids is much worse plan. Most of us will never have to use the guns we carry but my kiddos want me to play and have fun with them all the time. This is what made me consider just carrying a j-frame for a while. I can still carry the 17 in the car/laptop bag at the office but have a lightweight solution that is always on me just in case I need it now.

With that said I am trying to find the happy medium of having a gun and letting my back heal. I do think a lighter setup will help. A Glock 48 would cut 4oz off the gun and my ammo weight nearly in half. I carry with a Wilderness Tactical 5-stitch but may add the reinforcement on the next belt. I have been on a standing desk for nearly 2 years at the office and I have now take breaks from sitting when on road trips every 1.5-2 hours instead of going 5+ hrs straight like I used to. All that help with after carrying my 17 for 10hrs plus my back is killing me. When I'm home on the weekends or carry off body my back does noticeably better so I am thinking I jumped back into full size IWB carry too fast.

[RoyGBiv]

My L5-S1 is bad. After 6 months of PT, weight loss, and carrying mostly in a fanny pack, I was able to return to AIWB full-time.

Without knowing the OP diagnosis, all I can say is to be serious about doing the PT homework, get your therapist to give you the most intense core exercises you can safely handle and get strong.

I'd also advise you to become conscious about how you adjust your body to your pain. Sometimes I catch myself avoiding one pain and creating pain elsewhere. Getting stronger has been a huge help.

Best wishes on what I know is a difficult journey.

[Jeremy45]

A light gun aiwb sounds worth exploring. G43, lightweight commander, or maybe G48 (which I worry might not be better enough) in an SME or JMCK.

I've just started to read on the AIWB stuff as I have never had the desire to do it before. A light gun setup that way may be worth trying. I just don't know how it works when I have to sit. My thighs are big (always have been, doesn't matter if I shed 40lbs) and I can't find a comfortable place for the gun go when I sit down. The short barrel should help? How else do you address this?


I'm not quite your size but can conceal a GP100 MC in jeans and a t-shirt. An LCR AIWB is even more betterer as far as ease of concealment and comfort. One of the advantages of appendix carry is even if you are dealing with a limited range of motion you can get to it.

Do you find the wheel guns conceal better that autos or it's just a preference?

[BehindBlueI's]

IDo you find the wheel guns conceal better that autos or it's just a preference?

About 80/20, mostly preference but a touch conceals better. The rounded shape of the grip, and the ability to swap a compact grip, does make the revolver a touch more comfortable and concealable for me. I do have an appendix holster for the P229 as well. I don't trust a striker fired gun/appendix carry combination for myself. I know many here do and do it with no problem, but it's not for me.

[Dave T]

My sympathy goes out to everyone who posted with back pain/problems. I herniated my first disc in Feb. 1975 on the job. Two more and I was medically retired before I got to 20 years. Eventually I ended up with 7 herniated, bulged, and broken discs; spinal stenosis; deteriorating disc disease; curvature of the spine and arthritis. Then in 2015 I herniated the L-5 vertebra and it started slipping forward to pinch the spinal cord every time I stood up. A fusion of L-4, L-5, and S-1 fixed that but the left over muscle spasms are sometimes crippling.

At 71 my days of IWB and even OWB carry are about over. I can manage it for a couple hours on good days. I've been forced to accept off-body carry in a bag or man-purse as the only viable way I can have a gun with me all the time. I'm having trouble finding good carry bags as I'm on my 3rd Maxpedition bag and it's about done for. Their current offerings are all versions of back-packs which I don't need and won't wear. I like something that at least gives the illusion of being accessible which a back-pack isn't.

I hate carrying a man purse so after watching "the interview" I bought a 642 and a pocket holster. I don't know how you guys manage pocket carry as when I try it my wife points at the right leg of my jeans and asks if that's the new revolver I just got. I can get my G30S out of the Maxpedition Good-to-Go bag about as fast as I get the 642 out of my pocket.

All I can say is: being old and broken ain't for the faint of heart! (smile)

Dave

[jack malone]

My sympathy goes out to everyone who posted with back pain/problems. I herniated my first disc in Feb. 1975 on the job. Two more and I was medically retired before I got to 20 years. Eventually I ended up with 7 herniated, bulged, and broken discs; spinal stenosis; deteriorating disc disease; curvature of the spine and arthritis. Then in 2015 I herniated the L-5 vertebra and it started slipping forward to pinch the spinal cord every time I stood up. A fusion of L-4, L-5, and S-1 fixed that but the left over muscle spasms are sometimes crippling.

At 71 my days of IWB and even OWB carry are about over. I can manage it for a couple hours on good days. I've been forced to accept off-body carry in a bag or man-purse as the only viable way I can have a gun with me all the time. I'm having trouble finding good carry bags as I'm on my 3rd Maxpedition bag and it's about done for. Their current offerings are all versions of back-packs which I don't need and won't wear. I like something that at least gives the illusion of being accessible which a back-pack isn't.

I hate carrying a man purse so after watching "the interview" I bought a 642 and a pocket holster. I don't know how you guys manage pocket carry as when I try it my wife points at the right leg of my jeans and asks if that's the new revolver I just got. I can get my G30S out of the Maxpedition Good-to-Go bag about as fast as I get the 642 out of my pocket.

All I can say is: being old and broken ain't for the faint of heart! (smile)

Dave

My spine pretty much morrows yours. I can make it with a 43X OWB or A P365 AIWB most of rge day.

[Duelist]

I have arthritis and bulged discs. The largest gun I’m willing to carry on the daily is a G26 due to weight and bulk - I love my Beretta, but never carry it. My 19x could get carried more because it’s only a little bit heavier than the G26, but during the work week and at church, it’s just too much.

I’m usually packing a G42 or 642. I have a decent shoulder holster for the G26, and IWB. I tried AIWB with it, but it wasn’t for me. I carry a lot in a Smartcarry, some IWB, and a lot in a pocket. Depends on the clothing more than anything else. I use good belts, and wear a lot of slacks, with some days in jeans. I have to be able to ditch the gun in the car, whatever I’m wearing, so that’s a complication.

Smartcarry and pocket carry with a light, small gun is my usual. Too long with a larger, heavier gun IWB or in the shoulder holster and my back is burning, to maybe being in serious pain.

[BehindBlueI's]

Would a different belt allow you to wear it looser?


FWIW, the curved belts from Red Nichols don't have to be as tight as traditional straight belts. With a straight belt I have to cinch it down more and will probably still have to hike up my pants after getting out of a chair. The Nichols belts let me wear a duty gun, spare ammo, cuffs, and a radio with more stability at less tightness. They aren't cheap, but they are a good design and have held up very well for years.

[Poconnor]

Spine injuries ended my career too. Here is what helped me. First get suspenders. I wear then under my shirt. Works fine with tee shirts and polo shirts. Next get a curved belt. This allows me to wear the belt not as tight so it’s not rubbing against a torn disc. Get a shoulder holster; the X type so the weight balances. Lighten up the load on your belt. A 642 in a Kramer pocket holster works even on the worse days for me. I even carried it in my pocket at physical therapy. If the pocket holster prints too much get baggier pants ( pleats work too) or try smart carry type of IWB. Kramer makes a holster/ tee shirt too. For everyday carry the loose belt w suspenders is not working for fast draw but it allows me to always have a gun. I even have a pocket holster for my 3” model 65. Works great in a cargo pocket.

[Lefty Gunner]

No one has suggested Perry Suspenders. These clip under your belt. You can get heavy duty elastic and non-stretch front straps for maximum support.
Some on Amazon are clones they call Perry, so be careful. If you wear them inside out you can place the clips behind your belt for a lower profile look.
They even have a shoulder holster model.

[JonInWA]

Does the shoulder holster work ok under a button down shirt? I'm in west Texas so we only wear jackets/vests 3-4 months out of the year. I think I would have to go a bit lighter on the gun to pull this off as well? It's still not comfortable to have a lot of weight on my shoulders, especially if it's not even. What shoulder rig do you go with?

Jeremy, the short answer, in my opinion, is a "no" when it comes to wearing a shoulder holster under a button-down shirt, for a couple of reasons:

1. With a shoulder holster under a button-down shirt, you're access is less than immediate-you're inhibited b the need to unbutton several buttons to gain effective access sufficient to draw the gun; I suppose you could practice a "Superman" draw, where you use both hands to rip open the shirt as necessary, bit that's probably both impractical and situationally ineffective;

2. Unless it's either a custom- or exceptionally well-crafted shoulder holster, they're an inherently bulky method of carry, particularly compared to many IWB/OWB holsters. To effectively wear a shoulder holster, you need to wear a sufficient concealment garment, such as a sweater (bulkier, not form-fitting) or jacket.

If wearing a vest, you need to ensure that the holster straps are unobtrusive/not readily visible from the armholes as well.

My shoulder holster of choice is for my Beretta 92, which is a vertical carry premium leather one from Beretta, from the Beretta on-line store; per my preference, it does not have an attached magazine pouch-my spare magazine(s) are carried on my belt.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

As an alternative to suspenders, a relatively unobtrusive and flexible system that I've worn for about two years is called the CCWComfortSling. While I think that the suspender approach is superior for a true duty rig, the Comfort Sling works very nicely for EDC, for a gun/holster and magazine pouch. Here's a link: http://www.ccwcomfortsling.com/

I've found it satisfactory also when a tactical flashlight/pouch and medium OC canister/pouch is added to the load.

Best, Jon

[Stumpnav]

Jeremy,
Since you said you thought the problem was due to the belt having to be too tight, I have a suggestion.
I have several belts of various construction. I have one from Comp Tac that has a piece of Kevlar sandwiched between the layers of leather to stiffen it. While it doesn't roll over like some belts, it is still a relatively loose belt. I have to cinch it fairly tight to keep my 1911 from sliding down.
My primary belt is from Cross Breed and it is a double thickness double stitched leather belt. It is really really stiff. It doesn't roll over and it just feels 'stiff'. I notice I don't have to cinch my belt nearly as tight and the 1911 doesn't slide down. There is something about that extra stiffness that keeps the gun in position better...for me at least.
If you have a chance, you might find a really stiff belt keeps you from having to cinch the belt as tight.

[Bob45]

I can only carry iwb if I go aiwb, carrying behind my hip kills my back. Like most people, I have a ton of holsters that for whatever reason, didnt work out. If youre going to try aiwb, call JM Custom Kydex, he can talk you through the options and tell you what to order, based on your pistol and body type. I have one for my Shield, and the same model for my M&P 2.0 compact, and thats the only way I carry.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[StraitR]

I've been having considerable back issues for the last year. I haven't carried SS IWB in probably five years since going AIWB. In the last year I've gone from a steel framed 9mm Commander, to a G19, to a LW 9mm CCO, and now to a G48. Mixed in, the whole time, was a G43 and J frame. Truth be told, the days my back feels best is when I carry the G43, and even better, the J frame (638).

For me, it's all about weight. A lighter pistol feels better overall, and also keeps me from having to tighten my belt up more, which really takes it's toll.

Within the last month, I've come to the realization that my days of carrying >35oz. pistols are behind me. I've accepted it, so I bought the G48 recently.

I did some weighing of what I consider my three carry guns at this point. Loaded, in their holster, the weights were give or take .2oz of...

638 in Harry's Icon - 20oz.
G43 in G48 JM Claw 2.0 - 25oz.
G48 in G48 JM Claw 2.0 - 30oz.

[Mark D]

Back issues here too. Damaged lumbar discs. My G19 or P2000 carried AIWB can occassionally trigger a flare up if I do it all day.

All of us have different physiology and injury histories, but I've found the following to help:



AIWB my 642 sometimes - it's only 16 oz loaded and it's less likely to cause me problems than the G19 or P2000.
Pocket carry the 642 a lot of the time. No problems whatsoever.
When carrying on the belt, I find a wide but flexible belt is more comfortable than a traditional 1.5" stiff leather gun belt. This runs contrary to established wisdom.


Shoulder holsters and suspenders seem like worthwhile options too, but I have no direct experience.

I am also slightly skeptical of a lot of physical therapists, chiropractors, and orthopedists. Not trying to slam 'em - if you like yours, that's awesome. If you're not satisfied with your caregivers, check out Stuart McGill's (https://www.backfitpro.com/about-us/)work. The Back Mechanic (https://www.amazon.com/Back-Mechanic-Stuart-McGill-2015-09-30/dp/B01FKSGJYC/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8) is a decent place to start. Good luck.

[deputyG23]

I was out for a bulged disc at L4/L5 in '16 for six weeks along with sciatica. The only thing I could manage during that time was a 442 with a speed strip in a jeans pocket. Still occasionally get sciatica flare ups and the 442 goes to primary carry instead of back up to a belt carried Glock or K Smith. A good heavy leather belt helps in my experience to distribute the weight and can be worn looser than the typical flimsy dress belt.

[RoyGBiv]

I am also slightly skeptical of a lot of physical therapists, chiropractors, and orthopedists. Not trying to slam 'em - if you like yours, that's awesome. If you're not satisfied with your caregivers, check out Stuart McGill's (https://www.backfitpro.com/about-us/)work. The Back Mechanic (https://www.amazon.com/Back-Mechanic-Stuart-McGill-2015-09-30/dp/B01FKSGJYC/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8) is a decent place to start. Good luck.
Thanks for this reference Mark.

I found some videos of him demoing his "Big 3". I'm already doing something similar to the Bird Dog, but I think I like the BD better. Will discuss with PT tomorrow. I've been doing what I consider his "Curl Ups On Steroids" for a while now... I'll probably keep doing mine, but will add some of his just to see. His version may be better for back alignment (on the floor vs on an exercise ball) but my PT version is way more core intensive. I got the "no more sit-ups for you EVER" talk from PT early on. I've got better abs now than I've had in 20 years, with zero sit ups. I really like his side planks! What I've been doing for that has seen mixed results... Will talk with PT about switching.

If I find these working well I'll probably order the book with videos. Something about reading books doesn't convey the details for me as well as video.

Another few tools in the tool bag. :cool:

ETA: This was a good demo video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UjXEdoSzIE). Not McGill, but his student/client.

[Mark D]

Thanks for this reference Mark.

I found some videos of him demoing his "Big 3". I'm already doing something similar to the Bird Dog, but I think I like the BD better. Will discuss with PT tomorrow. I've been doing what I consider his "Curl Ups On Steroids" for a while now... I'll probably keep doing mine, but will add some of his just to see. His version may be better for back alignment (on the floor vs on an exercise ball) but my PT version is way more core intensive. I got the "no more sit-ups for you EVER" talk from PT early on. I've got better abs now than I've had in 20 years, with zero sit ups. I really like his side planks! What I've been doing for that has seen mixed results... Will talk with PT about switching.

If I find these working well I'll probably order the book with videos. Something about reading books doesn't convey the details for me as well as video.

Another few tools in the tool bag. :cool:

ETA: This was a good demo video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UjXEdoSzIE). Not McGill, but his student/client.

Roy - it sounds like your PT is a good one, and you're obviously motivated. I agree that getting the video along with the book is a good idea. I bought Back Mechanic without the video and then spent too long on YouTube trying to figure out the best technique. It's not that the book is deficient, but I'm a visual learner, and I find video helps to grasp the finer points.

On the subject of videos, you may have seen this already, it's Layne Norton's actual assessment with Stu McGill and Brian Carroll. BD instruction starts at 7 min. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syKKv3sQ4O8

Regarding curls ups, I'm substituting with "Stir the Pot". It has McGill's stamp of approval too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNUnSrkI0KQ

Keep us posted, and good luck.

[RoyGBiv]

Roy - it sounds like your PT is a good one, and you're obviously motivated. I agree that getting the video along with the book is a good idea. I bought Back Mechanic without the video and then spent too long on YouTube trying to figure out the best technique. It's not that the book is deficient, but I'm a visual learner, and I find video helps to grasp the finer points.

On the subject of videos, you may have seen this already, it's Layne Norton's actual assessment with Stu McGill and Brian Carroll. BD instruction starts at 7 min. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syKKv3sQ4O8

Regarding curls ups, I'm substituting with "Stir the Pot". It has McGill's stamp of approval too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNUnSrkI0KQ

Keep us posted, and good luck.

+1 on the videos. Doing exercises wrong can be a waste of time, or, it can hurt you more than the $30 it cost for the videos. Setbacks suck.

I watched most of Laynes 3-part video. While his situation (power lifting) isn't mine, I found the discussions with McGill about body mechanics, mechanisms of causation and philosophy on rehab enlightening. The latter has caused me to change my approach from longer workouts once a day, to shorter more frequent sessions, especially as symptoms begin to emerge. Too early to see results, but, the fresh mindset is motivating.

I've been doing stationary planks on an exercise ball for some time.... Stir the pot looks a lot less boring. I'm thoroughly tired of counting time in my head (I now use a wall clock with a second hand that I lay on the floor to watch time). Counting revolutions is less tedious.

Still considering yoga, but lacking the motivation to deal with the stay-at-home mom crowd at the local studio.

Apologies to the OP for the tangent... Hopefully some of this has been useful. Rehabbing a bad back is a process. Sometimes a life-changing one.

[JimCunn]

Suspenders, pocket carry, or switching to your other hand?

I often pocket carry an air weight 12.5 ounce 9mm J-frame conversion.

[Jeremy45]

Back issues here too. Damaged lumbar discs. My G19 or P2000 carried AIWB can occassionally trigger a flare up if I do it all day.

All of us have different physiology and injury histories, but I've found the following to help:



AIWB my 642 sometimes - it's only 16 oz loaded and it's less likely to cause me problems than the G19 or P2000.
Pocket carry the 642 a lot of the time. No problems whatsoever.
When carrying on the belt, I find a wide but flexible belt is more comfortable than a traditional 1.5" stiff leather gun belt. This runs contrary to established wisdom.


Shoulder holsters and suspenders seem like worthwhile options too, but I have no direct experience.

I am also slightly skeptical of a lot of physical therapists, chiropractors, and orthopedists. Not trying to slam 'em - if you like yours, that's awesome. If you're not satisfied with your caregivers, check out Stuart McGill's (https://www.backfitpro.com/about-us/)work. The Back Mechanic (https://www.amazon.com/Back-Mechanic-Stuart-McGill-2015-09-30/dp/B01FKSGJYC/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8) is a decent place to start. Good luck.

What AIWB holster do you use for the J-Frame. Do you find it more or less comfortable that a longer pistol in that position?

I've got a pair of suspenders on the way to try. I have been very happy with my PT so far. My back has had drastic improvement it just seems that carrying a G17 SS IWB takes me the wrong direction. I have started swimming and light weight lifting with no issue but the gun hurts. I weighed it loaded in the holster over the weekend and it is 2lb 7oz and I'm thinking it's just in a bad place.

[Jeremy45]

I was out for a bulged disc at L4/L5 in '16 for six weeks along with sciatica. The only thing I could manage during that time was a 442 with a speed strip in a jeans pocket. Still occasionally get sciatica flare ups and the 442 goes to primary carry instead of back up to a belt carried Glock or K Smith. A good heavy leather belt helps in my experience to distribute the weight and can be worn looser than the typical flimsy dress belt.

My thighs are too big for pocket carry but I'm thinking keeping a jframe even to go on a belt would help when I'm having a bad day or when I'm at the office. I'm thinking of going j-frame on the belt when I'm at work (small business with 15 employees) and the G17 in a bag. Them if I'm going somewhere more public I can strap on the 17 instead of wearing it all day.

[Jeremy45]

+1 on the videos. Doing exercises wrong can be a waste of time, or, it can hurt you more than the $30 it cost for the videos. Setbacks suck.

I watched most of Laynes 3-part video. While his situation (power lifting) isn't mine, I found the discussions with McGill about body mechanics, mechanisms of causation and philosophy on rehab enlightening. The latter has caused me to change my approach from longer workouts once a day, to shorter more frequent sessions, especially as symptoms begin to emerge. Too early to see results, but, the fresh mindset is motivating.

I've been doing stationary planks on an exercise ball for some time.... Stir the pot looks a lot less boring. I'm thoroughly tired of counting time in my head (I now use a wall clock with a second hand that I lay on the floor to watch time). Counting revolutions is less tedious.

Still considering yoga, but lacking the motivation to deal with the stay-at-home mom crowd at the local studio.

Apologies to the OP for the tangent... Hopefully some of this has been useful. Rehabbing a bad back is a process. Sometimes a life-changing one.

No apologies needed. I haven't been on in a day or two. I'm looking through the videos as well. Getting the back healed and keeping it in good shape is very important. I slacked off on some exercises and noticed a decline within a couple of days. Back to a routine and I am in much better shape. Tightness in the sciatic nerve but no real pain.

I appreciate all the input from both of you on PT and repairing your back.

[echo5charlie]

Not Mark D, but I can give my experiences with J-Frame AIWB.

I use a PHLster City Special for my 442, the belt I use is a Spec.-Ops. Better BDU Belt. I can wear this rig 24 hours straight (seriously) while falling asleep on the couch, it really works for me. Now, for semi-autos the single point belt loop does not work at due to holster roll, but for the J it allows the grip to cant to the right (from the wearers perspective) and actually allows me to have a smoother and quicker draw than anything else I currently own. Thanks to the grip profile of the 442 this cant, for me, does not result in printing issues (my chest and waist are not on the same plane) and I can wear a relatively form-fitting T-shirt as a cover garment. I do not notice the weight of the 442, but I also do not have the same back issues you do so keep that in mind. From a long-term wearing perspective this is the most comfortable AIWB solution I currently employ and I seriously love the quick don/doff of the City Special. Another positive aspect of the City Special is that it is ambidextrous - all you need to do is flip the mounting hardware.

If I could shoot my 442 as well as a G17 AND knew I'd never need more than 5 rounds I would carry nothing else...if concealed carry were more like a Choose Your Own Adventure book.

[Balisong]

Still considering yoga, but lacking the motivation to deal with the stay-at-home mom crowd at the local studio.


I had been debating whether or not to bring the subject up in this thread, but since folks are discussing the rehab/exercise options for backs, I figure why not. For the OP and anyone else with back problems, I highly recommend that you at least try yoga for a while IF your doctor/PT says it's ok in regards to your specific condition.

I am fortunate enough that I haven't had the level of back issues that many of you in here have. But, I had been experiencing more and more stiffness and general aching in my back and joints. As a nurse for 15 years and counting I knew that was only going to get worse with time. So at the strong suggestion of a coworker who is also a yoga instructor, I tried it. I have found that when I'm pretty consistent with my practice I have way less aches and stiffness. My back and joints feel looser and just more comfortable. I'm actually wishing I had been doing it my whole life as i quite enjoy it. The studio I go to specializes in bikram (hot) yoga so that's mostly what I do, but I do occasionally partake in the non-heated yoga as well. They're both great, but I find that the hot yoga results in better stretching, plus adds more of a cardiovascular aspect to it. As a nice bonus, the increased balance and flexibility can be useful when it comes to BJJ. At least in theory! I'm a BJJ n00b so I still end up with my face being squeezed off in someone's armpit or mashed on the floor lol.

My studio also does a hot pilates class which I love a lot. I don't have other pilates classes to compare it to, but it's low impact, just hand weights and occasional resistance bands. Great for building core and back strength, and again the heat adds cardio benefits. Also theoretically helpful for BJJ as your core has a lot to do with it.

Sorry if this all seems a bit out of lane, but based on my experience and other practitioners I know, it's at the very least worth exploring if you can.

In regards to the "stay at home mom" crowd at the studio... I really wouldn't let that stop you. When you're doing yoga practice it's YOUR practice. You're just there for your benefit and whatever goals you're after. Nobody says you have to socialize there. In fact at my studio I would say the majority of folks barely say anything to anyone, they just roll out their mats and go at it. That being said, my studio has a surprisingly eclectic mix. I thought it would all be bored housewives and hippies. There certainly are those, but there are also college students, professionals, retired folks, even some young military dudes in great shape (nearby air force base).
Also, there are plenty of yoga DVDs out there if you really don't want to deal with the class setting. I prefer the class setting so I can get some instruction and correction on my form. I hope this has been somewhat helpful for anyone reading.

[Mark D]

What AIWB holster do you use for the J-Frame. Do you find it more or less comfortable that a longer pistol in that position?

I've got a pair of suspenders on the way to try. I have been very happy with my PT so far. My back has had drastic improvement it just seems that carrying a G17 SS IWB takes me the wrong direction. I have started swimming and light weight lifting with no issue but the gun hurts. I weighed it loaded in the holster over the weekend and it is 2lb 7oz and I'm thinking it's just in a bad place.

I have two J frame holsters. The first is a Harry's Holsters Icon, and it's fine for the 642. It's comfy and easy to don and doff. It doesn't conceal well for me, though.

The other holster is a custom JMCK that Tony recently made for me. It's essentially a Wing Claw. As expected, it exudes craftsmanship. For many people it would be overkill for a J frame. But I like it, and the 642 simply vanishes in it, even under a fitted T shirt.

Honestly I prefer carrying a bigger pistol (P2000 usually), but the lighter weight of the 642 is much easier on my back if I'm carrying for a long period of time.

[Andy T]

As another member has suggested - if you are OK with a smaller handgun, pocket carry may work for you. I tend to carry PM9 in a pocket holster 97% of the time.

[JHC]

Jeremy45

Are you finding AIWB to be easing the back pain yet?

[StraitR]

As stated upthread, I've been fighting chronic back pain for about a year. One of my triggers, after over-exerting myself, is weight on the belt and the tightening of my belt as a result of weight. I've been wearing a back brace at work for a few weeks, and it definitely helps. The only issue I have with the brace is that it's not conducive to AIWB carry, or any carry on the belt. After an uneasy week of not carrying a gun, I thought I'd try tucking an LCP in the brace. Worked fine, so the next day I carried the LCP again and added a fixed blade (Strider TRICON). It worked well, so I tried my J frame in a Harry's Icon. Keeping the weight off my belt seemed to be the ticket for me.

I liked it so much, I decided to try the Unity Tactical CLUTCH (http://www.unitytactical.com/product-category/clutch/). It arrived over the weekend, and I wore it today with the J-frame (in Harry's Icon), Tricon, and a speed strip. Initial impressions are quite good, but it's too early to say it's a permanent solution or suggest others run and buy one.

My 638 has full grip LG-305 laser grips. I need to pick up some basic boot grips, as it would be much easier to conceal. If anyone has an old factory checkered boot grip (before S&W started putting their logo on it), and isn't using it, I'll happily send you some money for it.

It's difficult to take a selfie of me wearing it, but here's a couple pics to get the gist. I wear it just touching the top of my belt, pretty close to how I wear the back brace. The compression of the Clutch has some brace-like qualities, which is an added bonus. I did add some hook velcro to both the Harry's holster and the Tricon sheath to keep them in place. I may or may not eventually take the belt hooks off.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48939051357_ba2bb2102c_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48939051327_efb82c0d11_c.jpg

[SAWBONES]

Jeremy45

Are you finding AIWB to be easing the back pain yet?


Though I'm not Jeremy45, I'll chime in to state that, being a relatively new practitioner of AIWB-style* carry for only the past few months (previously IWB behind the hip for over thirty years), I'm gratified by how much more comfortable the new location is in regard to back pain issues.


* As a southpaw carrying at 10:30-11:30 o' clock, it's not AIWB but DCIWB; Descending Colon Inside the Waistband. :rolleyes:

[medmo]

I’ve had a great experience (10 months) with JM Custom Kydex Wing Claw 2.5!AIWB. Px4 CC which is close in size to your G19. Conceals with an untucked t shirt. It has a lot of adjustment and the foam wedge on the bottom keeps the butt tucked into the abdomen.

[Jeremy45]

Jeremy45

Are you finding AIWB to be easing the back pain yet?

Considerably!! I tried out the suspenders and strong side first. It helped a bit with a looser belt was I was still sore by the end of the day. The AIWB (once I got the holster where it was comfortable) is a drastic improvement. I can wear a G17 all day and my back is just fine!!

[Jeremy45]

As another member has suggested - if you are OK with a smaller handgun, pocket carry may work for you. I tend to carry PM9 in a pocket holster 97% of the time.

So far I have not come up with something that will not print like crazy in a pocket! My wife is going to try and deepen my pockets but even a P3AT prints for me.

[Jeremy45]

Just got a package in from JM today. I'll get the wedges out and play with everything over the weekend. I'll post up a couple of pics when I have time. Thanks JHC for letting me play with a couple of holsters so I didn't end up with a box full of AIWB kydex trying to find the right one!

[Jaywalker]

It looks like the OP is on the way to a solution, but I thought I'd post an alternative for those folks who search for something else.

Ken Null does an alternative shoulder holster for light handguns. The ones I have seen are heavy grade synthetic and are worth considering. They hook onto the opposite side belt to stabilize. They're very light weight and the only downside I see (besides the normal discussion about shoulder holsters) is that a Glock G19 would likely be too heavy - Null originally designed them around the Airweight J-frame. I'm thinking about one for my G43 for car travel. It pulls your pants up, not down...
http://www.klnullholsters.com/NewHolsters/smz.htm

[Bucky]

Ongoing hip problems make 3:00 painful for me. I’ve gone to AIWB because of it. If you have some belly, beware of short slide suggestions like the 43 or 43X. My 43 prints badly AIWB, whereas my 92 Compact conceals better. Some will say just get a longer holster to “battle the bulge”, but if you have a longer holster, might as well have a longer gun.