Looking for ideas on a new CC pistol

[corneileous]

Don’t get me wrong, my little Ruger LC9S has served me well. I’ve enjoyed carrying it but because it was pretty much the only thing that I felt would satisfy my needs, back when I got it, I’m just curious what all else might be out there that might serve me better.

Yes, I am a fan of the PX4 Storm series by Beretta and after really liking carrying concealed in a cargo pocket of a pair of cargo pants (and shorts), I figured maybe I’d finally have enough reason and justification to get me one of those little sub-compact Storms because they work identical to my other three Storms. And, I can make it a Type-G decocker only to match the others but, even though it’s small, it’s still a heavy little gun. It’s like my Ruger but one and a half...lol.

So with that said, what would be a good DA/SA decocker only, single-stack pistol about or close to the size of the Ruger? How would one of those little baby 1911’s work? l know that’s not within the parameters of a single-stack(if there was one) SC Storm but it would however be very similar to how I carry my 10mm Sig out in the woods cocked and locked. Would that make a good pocket-carry pistol?

Don’t really think I want anything striker-fired as I really have become accustomed to hammer-fired guns.

I guess there’s always the possibility of revolvers too but I like being able to carry upwards of ten rounds without having to reload. Which, I know, I’ve often thought about the idea of carrying a second magazine and now that cargo pocket carry is very doable and much more comfortable, it also makes it a lot easier to carry a spare mag.

Thoughts? Thanks.


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[Guerrero]

Maybe this?

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?38227-Langdon-Tactical-Goes-Single-Stack-Springfield-XD-E

[TicTacticalTimmy]

I think the most compact DA/SA pistol on the market is the Springfield XDE. Normally Im not a fan of Springfield, but Langdon Tactical recently released their upgraded version of this gun. There is a thread on it a few pages down, looks like it may be perfect for your situation, particularly if you need 10+ rounds.

I had a Sig P938 for a while, it conceals really well. Actually significantly more concealable vs a G43, despite being almost identical on paper. However, the manual safety is very hard to put back on safe, and the ambi safety would sometimes pinch my hand, and in general it was an uncomfortable gun to shoot unless you held it "just right", and my experience with it convinced my manual safeties were a bad idea for pocket carry.

I would also check out the Kahr series of Pistols if you need something smaller or cheaper Vs the XDE.

[BehindBlueI's]

Nothing that meets all your wants exists. A small single stack won't hold 10+ rounds without a reload. A pretty big single stack won't either without extended mags.

Do you know the difference between TDA and SAO, because asking about 1911s in the same breath as decocker only doesn't make sense?

I guess if you're ok with SAO, a Sig P938 would meet the rest of what you want and is a fairly common pocket gun. Personally, I wouldn't want one but that's true of most pocket semi autos.

[Super77]

Glock 43X with SCD

SIG P225

[Clusterfrack]

After exploring a lot of different options, I’ve settled on carrying a compact TDA AIWB (CZ P-07) almost all the time. If I can carry a G43, a P07 isn’t really any more trouble.

If I need a very small gun, I carry a LCP 1 (v2) loaded with Underwood/Lehigh XP.

In between sized guns aren’t that useful for me anymore.

Carrying TDA and SA 1911 type guns seems like a bad idea. The manual of arms is too different.

[RevolverRob]

I have tried a lot of different guns out there. And carried some of those too.

At the end of the day there isn't "one" gun that fulfills all needs and criteria. Instead, one should opt for at least 2 sizes of gun that have similar or the same manual of arms. In your case, you use and like PX4 storms, which have nice smooth DA trigger pulls and then convert over to single-action. If you're comfortable and accurate with those DA pulls, I'd highly recommend you go investigate Kahr's guns, in particular the 9mm and .380 series of guns. They have a long, but very smooth, DA trigger that is probably the closest thing you'll find a D-spring equipped PX4 in a sub-compact handgun that you can pocket carry.

I wouldn't fiddle around with changing your mechanics much. The Kahr won't care if you try to push down on a decocker that does not exist on its slide when you come off the gun and go to holster or assess after shooting. But the mini-1911s will care if you don't disable the thumb safety and they'll care if you don't enable the thumb safety too. Particularly the 9mm and .380 guns that don't have grip safeties. If you're used to a longer first pull and not having to do anything when you draw the gun except align the sights and stroke the trigger, then don't mess with your brain wiring, it ain't broken, don't try to fix it.

[vcdgrips]

Make one of your Storms work or pivot to a vetted Kahr are both workable solutions. Keeping a mini 1911 running reliably can be more art than science. I would take a hard pass on such a platform unless I was already a dyed in the wool 4-5 inch 1911 guy who was going to take the time to stay up on keeping the mini 1911 running.

Having said that:

Help us understand why a 6 ft, 270lb truck driver cannot wear one of his 3 Storms in quality owb holster, held in place buy a quality belt (size 42-44 IIRC) such that he can have a positive, consistent sub 2 sec draw when his hands are at his sides?

Out of curiosity-how long does it take for you to draw your pistol out of your cargo pants and put a shot on an 8 inch plate @5 yrds with your hands at your sides before the "beep" goes off so to speak

FWIW-It is starting to sound like you are looking for a hardware solution to a software problem.

[Trooper224]

So with that said, what would be a good DA/SA decocker only, single-stack pistol about or close to the size of the Ruger?

Walther PPK

[corneileous]

Nothing that meets all your wants exists. A small single stack won't hold 10+ rounds without a reload. A pretty big single stack won't either without extended mags.
9 or 10- including one chambered would be ok. The Ruger with its 9-round mag works well. It’s a little tight in this fairly small pocket in my denim work jeans but a bigger front pocket would eliminate that.


Do you know the difference between TDA and SAO, because asking about 1911s in the same breath as decocker only doesn't make sense?
Yes. Well, what exactly is true double-action? My Storms are DA on that first shot but they’re not like the D’s that are that same DA shot all the way through.

My 10mm p220 Sig is SAO and so is my little 22 magnum revolver but the only relevant difference, is the Sig doesn’t have to be cocked each shot thereafter like the little revolver. That’s why I asked about a little baby 1911 because it’s carried like my Sig.

Would one of those be OK for pocket carry? Looking at the little Springfield XDE, I see where it said it could be carried cocked and locked like a 1911 or it could be carried just like my storms can - safety off, hammer not cocked.

Which brings me to something I just thought of- having an un-cocked hammer with the safety off of that little Springfield is pretty much the same as any of my storms in their original type F format with the safety off but the reason why I didn’t just leave them they way was because Beretta advised against caring a type f with the safety off because it wasn’t designed that way. I really don’t think there’s anything different between a type f with the safety off and a type g.


I guess if you’re ok with SAO, a Sig P938 would meet the rest of what you want and is a fairly common pocket gun. Personally, I wouldn’t want one but that’s true of most pocket semi autos.

So why wouldn’t you carry one? Just curious.

I just figured that really the only other pistol that I carry on me is my Sig, and I figured since a baby 1911 is carried in the same manner that maybe that would help with consistency. That’s why I’m looking at something at something either with a double- action/no safety, or a SAO semi that has to have a safety being that used to bring around both- the safety on the Ruger and the safety on the Sig or the safety-less DA of my Storms. Either one of those two styles is what I’m looking at. I just don’t want nothing that’s like a Glock.

The Berettas are just too much to carry on me. I’ve got the 45 storm over there that stays in my backpack that goes with me on the truck that holds my charging cords, Garmin/ other stuff- my .40 full-size storm stays inside the safe in the center console of my pick up, and the little 9 mm compact storm is what usually stays at home as my nightstand pistol.


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[BehindBlueI's]

Honestly you can find most of those answers with the search function and I'm not going to reinvent the wheel here for you.

Let's drill down a bit. What are you trying to accomplish? Do you just want "different" or is there some problem you're trying to solve? If your goal is to be as good as you can be, pick one platform and stick with it. If you want to collect or have a new shiny play-toy buy whatever catches your eye. Can you deactivate the safety 100% of the time when under extreme stress, possibly being grappled, and possibly injured? If you're willing to bet your life that the answer is 'yes' get something with a thumb safety. If that's not a wager you're willing to accept, get away from thumb safeties and go with a TDA or striker fired gun.

As far as why I wouldn't want one, any semi-auto I can fit in a pocket isn't going to shoot well enough for me to be satisfied with. The Shield is as small as I can go and not feel like I might as well hold the gun with chopsticks.

[RevolverRob]

Walther PPK

He said a good pistol. ;)

I love me some Walther PP/PPK but it's not a gun I would run out and buy for concealed carry. So many sharp edges...Very mediocre DA trigger pull without lots of work. Shit sights. Also it's a heavy gun compared to anything polymer. And even with a flat magazine in place a PPK isn't what I would consider a "pocket" pistol.

That said if Walther made a new blued PPK in .32 ACP, I'd have one in like 5 seconds.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

May I ask politely, if you have shot the different guns in the context of a quality tactical class or a competition venue such as USPSA or IDPA?

The utility of a gun's mechanics and the interaction with your own skill level will quickly become evident.

Discussing hypothetical equipment change outs without empirical testing is silly, sorry to say.

From John Holschen:


A quote from John Holschen (respected firearms instructor) outlines the mindset of “The One Percent Club”. “Amateurs focus on equipment, Students focus on technique, Experts focus on tactics.”

Holschen once pressed my head into the mat with vigor. Ouch. Just saying.

[vcdgrips]

“The Berettas are just too much to carry on me.”

You are a 6ft, 270 lb truck driver and your the Berettas are “too” much” to carry on you....

Bless your heart, I got nothin.

[corneileous]

Make one of your Storms work or pivot to a vetted Kahr are both workable solutions. Keeping a mini 1911 running reliably can be more art than science. I would take a hard pass on such a platform unless I was already a dyed in the wool 4-5 inch 1911 guy who was going to take the time to stay up on keeping the mini 1911 running.

Having said that:

Help us understand why a 6 ft, 270lb truck driver cannot wear one of his 3 Storms in quality owb holster, held in place buy a quality belt (size 42-44 IIRC) such that he can have a positive, consistent sub 2 sec draw when his hands are at his sides?

Yeah, I understand what you’re saying about the little mini-1911. I didn’t fully realize that it’s still going to be like an actual 1911, except smaller.

But like I was saying, the only reason why I even considered one is because they’re small, and they are carried the way I carry my big 10 mm sig when I’m out in the woods- only difference would be that the big Sig gets carried outside the waistband and this one would be carried inside a pocket in a pocket holster.

But as far as that last part- Are you asking why I just don’t carry openly? Or are you talking about concealed carry in an OWB holster? If the latter the case, I guess I could try that but until I find some long enough T-shirts to even see if they would cover up my Ruger in that low-profile pancake holster I’ve got that I told you guys about it a different thread that could be covered up that way, that that’s why I don’t carry any of those on me.

For grins and giggles I bought one of those really nice, black, pancake holsters that Beretta sells and even with that, I can’t conceal them, even the smaller Compact I have. I don’t know if it’s just my build or what, but I feel like I have to have a trenchcoat just to cover those up even in that holster.

I can’t do shoulder holster carry because I don’t wear overshirts to cover them. The only time I could even come remotely close to getting away with that would be in the winter time but only on a day when it was actually cold enough to me that I could wear a light jacket all day long.



Out of curiosity-how long does it take for you to draw your pistol out of your cargo pants and put a shot on an 8 inch plate @5 yrds with your hands at your sides before the “beep” goes off so to speak
Are you talking about from a standing or seated position?

I guess I could be wrong but it seems to me like you’re talking about doing that drill from a standing position. If that’s the case then I could see how reaching down to access a pistol out of a cargo pocket would be kind of hard to do.

But unless the really long T-shirt idea works to fully cover up a pancake holster for concealment- that’s why I like cargo pocket idea because yeah, even though it’s not as easily accessed that way while standing, but at least carrying it that way while sitting is much better while I was in the truck.

I figure since the top pockets on my new cargo pants have much bigger front pockets than my current bluejeans that it’ll make it easier to move the pistol to it if go inside a store.


FWIW-It is starting to sound like you are looking for a hardware solution to a software problem.
Please explain, now that I’ve had time to answer your response.



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[corneileous]

“The Berettas are just too much to carry on me.”

You are a 6ft, 270 lb truck driver and your the Berettas are “too” much” to carry on you....

Bless your heart, I got nothin.

Appreciate you waiting for me to have time to respond to your first response.


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[Pappy35]

Don’t really think I want anything striker-fired as I really have become accustomed to hammer-fired guns.

By wanting a DA/SA, pocket sized, 10-round capacity gun you really don't have any options. Striker vs. hammer, if it makes any real difference, won't have any effect in a self-defence type scenario where you're digging a gun out of your pocket quickly to dispatch an aggressor.

So, if you accept that a striker-fired weapon is your only choice, the P365 would be it. I just got one and still can't get over how small and readily concealable it is yet still have 10+1 onboard. I chose it to replace my G43 for precisely this reason. There are other small, pocketable handguns of course but you won't find another one with that capacity in that size.

[PNWTO]

The LTT XD-E seems to be the obvious choice but a Glock + SCD is always recommended because it just works. For true pocket carry a no-lock 442 would be my suggestion.

I can’t imagine doing anything combative with a pistol flopping around in a cargo pocket.



FWIW-It is starting to sound like you are looking for a hardware solution to a software problem.

Amen.

[corneileous]

The LTT XD-E seems to be the obvious choice but a Glock + SCD is always recommended because it just works. For true pocket carry a no-lock 442 would be my suggestion.
I’m liking that little Springfield.


I can’t imagine doing anything combative with a pistol flopping around in a cargo pocket.

Again, I primarily chose this method for sitting down in the truck all day. Of course it’s not gonna be very good for when I’m out of the truck standing up, but next to finding a concealed open carry version that works and can be covered, I don’t know of any other way.


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[Guerrero]

I apologize if this sounds flippant (not my intent); maybe you just need a better belt and better holsters.

A better belt/holster combo made a huge difference for me.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I focus on
I find some long enough T-shirts

Get off the t-shirts shtick. Go to Academy or some similar store and you can find very long and light weight outdoor shirts that are inexpensive. Look at Magellan's line. Plenty of folks drive around all day with OWB and a cover shirt. Don't cabs have AC, so you won't die of the heat.

Now, I typed long t-shirts into Amazon and guess what, there are lots. Now, they are described as for hipsters. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[ArgentFix]

By now you're picking up that, around here, pocket carry is considered borderline "no-no" or an absolute last resort, at least partially because of the lack of quality options. If a 12oz loaded 10-round single stack "P229sc" with a safe, solid pocket holster existed you and I would both be in heaven, but it doesn't, so we gotta compromise. I own a G42 because it's the absolute minimum I would ever carry, but it is FAR from perfect. A G43 weighs more and is on the edge of pocketability IMO. Same with a P365 and your LC9s, but from this and your previous post it sounds like you're reconsidering this style. You would probably like the action on a P99c or XD-E but now we're approaching the size and weight of many other guns, including TDAs (Traditional Double Action, FYI) and your PX4s that won't realistically pocket carry.

My point is perfect pocket carry is essentially impossible. If you MUST do it, as I do occasionally, accept that it's going to suck. Whenever your clothing/situation allows, go with a bigger gun. Maybe some day we'll have a perfectly safe gun that feels and handles identically in 3 sizes, pocket, EDC, and full, but today it doesn't exist.

[BehindBlueI's]

“The Berettas are just too much to carry on me.”

You are a 6ft, 270 lb truck driver and your the Berettas are “too” much” to carry on you....


I'm a touch smaller, and here's my thread on carrying a 6" N-frame concealed:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?21582-If-you-ve-ever-wondered-if-you-can-carry-a-6-quot-N-frame-IWB

I did this for three reasons:

1)...because I don't believe in owning a pistol that can't be pressed into defensive duty if required.
2)... for when people say "I can't carry anything bigger than (insert mouse gun here).
3) Shits and giggles factor

[corneileous]

I apologize if this sounds flippant (not my intent); maybe you just need a better belt and better holsters.

A better belt/holster combo made a huge difference for me.

For what?


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[Glenn E. Meyer]

If you carry a pocket gun like J frame or a semi (G42) you absolutely have to practice and train with it. I sometimes carry a 642 or 432 and thus did Claude's snubby class. I shoot the guns in competition (as BUGS) to get some more than square range. The grip, sights, etc. need practice. I usually find that I need a tune up as the first rounds are not exactly where they should be (not wild but off a touch).

You don't need to pull a pocket gun (ignoring draw problems) and throw a round off to the left, right and up or down off target. You need to test this. Also, do it one handed A one handed cylinder of +P rounds or small mag of similar can be interesting. Then try it with your nondominant hand. Oh, crap, I just shot Elmo accidentally at the truck stop. Oops!

[GearFondler]

I'm a truck driver and I can tell you that nothing is more accessible from the seated position than ankle carry. Does it suck as a primary for everything else? Yes. But it thrives from the seated and belted position.
Strap a J to your ankle and carry a real gun on your waist.

[Guerrero]

For what?


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For one of your existing pistols

[PNWTO]

I’m liking that little Springfield.



Again, I primarily chose this method for sitting down in the truck all day. Of course it’s not gonna be very good for when I’m out of the truck standing up, but next to finding a concealed open carry version that works and can be covered, I don’t know of any other way.


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Why not a fanny pack then? No need for a new pistol if you like what you have. Keep it on your lap or console while driving and just wear it around when you aren’t. If you’re just looking to buy a new pistol that’s fine but there are other solutions that been offered here.

[JTQ]

For what?

For instance, here is a PX4 full size worn under a t-shirt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=wfUh08p-NNU

[JTQ]

G34 under a t-shirt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=20&v=wmxPrwk4heo

[ArgentFix]

For instance, here is a PX4 full size worn under a t-shirt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=wfUh08p-NNU

Sorry to drift this serious thread but I actually LOLed at Ernest saying "hashtag HardToKill" and delivered as deadly accurate as his shots :)

[corneileous]

I'm a truck driver and I can tell you that nothing is more accessible from the seated position than ankle carry. Does it suck as a primary for everything else? Yes. But it thrives from the seated and belted position.
Strap a J to your ankle and carry a real gun on your waist.

Explain how an ankle holster would be better than a cargo pocket on the side of the thigh that is closer and looser and found out that I could pull it out pretty quick and pretty easy?

What do you carry on your waist? How do you carry it? Inside the waistband? Outside the waistband, what?



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[jetfire]

This thread has got to be an elaborate troll post.

[HopetonBrown]

This thread has got to be an elaborate troll post.All his posts are.

[GearFondler]

Explain how an ankle holster would be better than a cargo pocket on the side of the thigh that is closer and looser and found out that I could pull it out pretty quick and pretty easy?

What do you carry on your waist? How do you carry it? Inside the waistband? Outside the waistband, what?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProIt's real easy... I reach down with my right hand and draw it. In the seated position my pants leg rode up enough so I didn't even need to raise it any further to draw. Beats the hell out of fumbling with a pocket flap and a holster flopping around inside the pocket.
As for waist carry, I AIWB carry a G19 and I'm 5'7", 164 lbs. And I can wear it sitting all day without any issue.

[corneileous]

For one of your existing pistols

I’ll look at trying to find me some longer shirts because that Beretta pancake holster I bought off their website rides pretty high up on the belt so, it fits really nice. It’s just a matter of getting a shirt long enough that’ll cover it up.


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[corneileous]

This thread has got to be an elaborate troll post.

Ignore....


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[corneileous]

All his posts are.

I guess you too if that’s what you think.


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[RevolverRob]

In this picture, I'm concealing an HK P30 (roughly same size a PX4 storm), with a tucked in t-shirt. I'm 5'7" and 200 pounds. The red circle is the tiniest bit of the gun you can see and it's almost covered by my too-many-tacos belly.

Holster was a Cherries Deep Concealment, belt is a Graith Specialist.

The gun is only part of the problem as my amigo Guerrero was suggesting.

42792

[ArgentFix]

If you find that everyone on this forum is an asshole except you, I guarantee there are other forums where you'll feel more at home.

[Guerrero]

RevolverRob your 'Pick is showing.

Rookie move, dude. Rookie move.

;)

[corneileous]

Let's drill down a bit. What are you trying to accomplish? Do you just want "different" or is there some problem you're trying to solve? If your goal is to be as good as you can be, pick one platform and stick with it. If you want to collect or have a new shiny play-toy buy whatever catches your eye. Can you deactivate the safety 100% of the time when under extreme stress, possibly being grappled, and possibly injured? If you're willing to bet your life that the answer is 'yes' get something with a thumb safety. If that's not a wager you're willing to accept, get away from thumb safeties and go with a TDA or striker fired gun.

Well, after all the information that’s been talked about in this thread and how it’s kind of gone back to that other thread I made about carrying options, if the longer shirt idea will help to conceal, that would be great if I could conceal carry one of my storms in that black Italian leather pancake holster of mine that says Beretta on it because to me with the way I have it set up, that’s the next best thing as far as I’m concerned about having what I currently carry right now, even without a safety on it.

The Storms don’t have safeties anymore, but their initial double action pull of the trigger in my opinion is much safer than a trigger safety. That’s why I’m liking that Springfield XD because it sounds like it’s the closest to that.
As far as why I wouldn’t want one, any semi-auto I can fit in a pocket isn’t going to shoot well enough for me to be satisfied with. The Shield is as small as I can go and not feel like I might as well hold the gun with chopsticks.

I can respect that.


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[Danjojo]

I like the Walther p99 a lot, my favorite 9mm overall.
There is a c model as well if G19 size is too large. Good DA/SA pistols when you can find them. Lightweight, thin for double stack mags, extremely reliable, durable, top level QC, accurate. Can lead you down the road of getting comfortable with striker-fired actions and opening up future options.

[RevolverRob]

RevolverRob your 'Pick is showing.

Rookie move, dude. Rookie move.

;)

Well, I had to start wearing it out in the open, because when I appendix carry, it tends to contort the handle out and makes it look like I'm uhh...happy to see folks. :D

But ya know, if people stopped staring at my junk, this wouldn't be a problem. I understand though, I too admire my crotch. :eek: :rolleyes:

[corneileous]

If you find that everyone on this forum is an asshole except you, I guarantee there are other forums where you'll feel more at home.

Excuse me? Where did this come from? I never said anybody was an asshole.

I don’t like to assume but what, just because I just openly placed two people on ignore for thinking I’m only here to troll and that the other one thinks everyone of my posts are troll posts? I’m in asshole for doing that even though there’s been two other people who has openly placed me on ignore for nothing that I’ve done to them?

I just don’t get the mentality of some people.


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[ArgentFix]

I like the Walther p99 a lot, my favorite 9mm overall.
There is a c model as well if G19 size is too large. Good DA/SA pistols when you can find them. Lightweight, thin for double stack mags, extremely reliable, durable, top level QC, accurate. Can lead you down the road of getting comfortable with striker-fired actions and opening up future options.

Agreed, the P99c AS is a great gun. My sample has gone 3900 rounds with a single FTEj because I was intentionally feeding it shitty Remington 115gr. Part of me wishes this was a more popular platform.

[Seven_Sicks_Two]

This thread has got to be an elaborate troll post.

It's like being haunted by the ghost of Doodie Project.

[Joe in PNG]

A good belt and good IWB holster can make a service sized gun disappear, even under a t-shirt. I've done it with a Glock 19 and a Colt 1911.

Wear a Columbia style button up fishing shirt, and a full size Beretta 92 is easily hidden.

[ArgentFix]

In this picture, I'm concealing an HK P30 (roughly same size a PX4 storm), with a tucked in t-shirt. I'm 5'7" and 200 pounds. The red circle is the tiniest bit of the gun you can see and it's almost covered by my too-many-tacos belly.

Holster was a Cherries Deep Concealment, belt is a Graith Specialist.

The gun is only part of the problem as my amigo Guerrero was suggesting.

42792

Pardon my staring at your junk but this is impressive concealment if that's really a full P30.

[JonInWA]

If the original poster is genuinely serious, I'll echo the responses that specify a quality holster, a quality belt, and a decent, viable concealment garment-be it shirt, vest, jacket, polo, burka, whatever.

While there are some circumstances that'll drive the size of the weapon carried, generally I've found that quality holsters, belts, etc. easily facilitate carrying a Glock G21 or a Beretta 92. It's not that tough. I prefer having a decent-enough sized handgun that I can access and use effectively. I have yet to be sufficiently moved by any of the existing sub/sub-sub compact firearms to be swayed from this position.

Best, Jon

[corneileous]

Thanks for everybody’s help.


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[RevolverRob]

Pardon my staring at your junk but this is impressive concealment if that's really a full P30.

Indeed full-size P30. The Cherries' holster offers a lot of concealment, but at the cost of access. It's fastest with a two handed draw that's awkward compared to something more traditional.

42795

[AKDoug]

I’m not going to read every response. I’m currently in my Pete 379 waiting to get loaded. I don’t drive daily anymore, but I cover for drivers that need a day off.

First, there is no better vehicle seat out there than an air ride semi seat for quick access for 3 o’clock OWB. I have zero issues with it and that’s where my G19 is right now.

Second. Dickies button up short sleeves can be had in tall length. I wear a 2XLT and it covers OWB just fine and looks 100% better than most dirt bag truckers out there. My son is your height and heavier. He wears a 4XLT and carries a G17 OWB.


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[0ddl0t]

Not hammer fired but I generally carry a P365 in a wallet holster in my front strongside pocket. Sub 2s draw to 1st shot @ 5 yards is doable with hands at my sides. With hands already in my pockets it is close to 1s. The wallet holster keeps the pistol from rotating around, but I do have to pay attention to pocket size when buying new clothing.

Pocket carry is very slow when seated, however. IWB at ~4:00 is comfortable for me while driving. The other option is attaching an retention holster to the underside of your dash and transfering the pistol to it while driving. I don't care to add unnecessary administrative handling, but if you're driving long haul you can just leave it there most of the day.

[jetfire]

It's like being haunted by the ghost of Doodie Project.

Don't you dare invoke that cursed name here

[Bucky]

Carrying TDA and SA 1911 type guns seems like a bad idea. The manual of arms is too different.

I guess it depends on your comfort level. I have no issue going between my 92 Compact and EDC X9. Then again, I frequently alternate between 2011 and a Shadow 2 in competition.

[JSGlock34]

Which brings me to something I just thought of- having an un-cocked hammer with the safety off of that little Springfield is pretty much the same as any of my storms in their original type F format with the safety off but the reason why I didn’t just leave them they way was because Beretta advised against caring a type f with the safety off because it wasn’t designed that way. I really don’t think there’s anything different between a type f with the safety off and a type g.

That's because there isn't a difference. Carrying a FS type Beretta with the hammer down and safety off is the prescribed method of carry for numerous law enforcement and military organizations. How exactly did Beretta advise against this practice?


May I ask politely, if you have shot the different guns in the context of a quality tactical class or a competition venue such as USPSA or IDPA?

Time was the traditional advice given on this forum to newcomers was to buy a Glock 19, a quality kydex OWB holster and magazine pouch, a Wilderness Instructor belt, and a two-day course with a reputable instructor. It remains valid guidance (though the PX4 is a perfectly acceptable alternative to the Glock) and the most efficient route to improving your knowledge and skill.

[RevolverRob]

I guess it depends on your comfort level. I have no issue going between my 92 Compact and EDC X9. Then again, I frequently alternate between 2011 and a Shadow 2 in competition.

I don’t know if it is comfort so much as repetition.

For me a TDA gun with a slide mounted decocker is second nature, so is a thumb safety equipped gun. I think those two platforms are so different, you really can’t screw up the mechanics. Because if you try to decock a 1911 it won’t work and if you try to activate the thumb safety in most 92-series guns it won’t work.

The switch I can’t make reliably is frame-mounted safety-decockers like a USP V1. I consistently end up decocking the damn gun when running the safety. The lever moves too many ways to accomplish things and it’s counter-intuitive compared to the bulk of my reps. The CZs require enough thumb contortion on my part to avoid decocking when I don’t intend to. Sig P-series guns aren’t too bad, except I tend to ride the slide release, which causes other issues.

At the end of the day my guns are TDA with slide mounted decocker (Smith Third Gen, Ruger P95, Berettas), or thumb safety SAO guns (1911s currently, but also like BHPs and others), or DAO/DAO’ish guns (revolvers and Kahrs).

[MattyD380]

If you’re set on DA/SA and you want something more svelte than most contemporary options... there’s always the old school blowbacks. PPK (mentioned), P230/P232, Makarov, etc. My P230 pulls glovebox duty most of the time, but makes a nice casual AIWB option in shorts and a T shirt. It’s accurate. Been reliable. But the Mak has been my favorite blowback. A little bigger than the P230, but it’s still trimmer than a P239 (or comparable double stack 9) and puts holes on top of holes with relative ease. Granted, my concealed carry scenarios generally involve trips to Kroger in suburban areas and walks through decent neighborhoods, so giving up ballistics and capacity in exchange for ease of carry doesn’t bother me. Of course the sights are primitive, but I personally get outstanding accuracy from the crop of blowback guns I’ve owned. Even my Polish P64.

[corneileous]

That's because there isn't a difference. Carrying a FS type Beretta with the hammer down and safety off is the prescribed method of carry for numerous law enforcement and military organizations. How exactly did Beretta advise against this practice?

By just simply saying that it wasn’t recommended. As I said before, they just said that since the Type F has a safety that the gun wasn’t designed to be carried with the safety off.

But to better answer your question: I’m assuming because cops aren’t/weren’t carrying type F’s.





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[jetfire]

By just simply saying that it wasn’t recommended. As I said before, they just said that since the Type F has a safety that the gun wasn’t designed to be carried with the safety off.

But to better answer your question: I’m assuming because cops aren’t/weren’t carrying type F’s.





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I know you put me on your ignore list, however your statement is factually incorrect. Beretta does not recommend against carrying the M9 with the safety off at the professional level, and in fact produces guns that are designed to be carried with the hammer down and the safety off (the G-model). The designated mode of carry for MANY agencies, including mine (USAF SF) for our M9/92FS pistols is with the hammer down on a live round and the safety off.

[corneileous]

Beats the hell out of fumbling with a pocket flap and a holster flopping around inside the pocket.
It was actually really simple.


As for waist carry, I AIWB carry a G19 and I'm 5'7", 164 lbs. And I can wear it sitting all day without any issue.

That’s probably fine for a small frame like that but I’m almost another 100 pounds heavier than that. Besides, I’m not interested in appendix carry and nor do I want anything crammed on the inside of my waistband.


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[GearFondler]

That’s probably fine for a small frame like that but I’m almost another 100 pounds heavier than that. Besides, I’m not interested in appendix carry and nor do I want anything crammed on the inside of my waistband.


You got me there... Everyone knows the smaller your frame the easier it is to conceal full size guns. [emoji849]

[jetfire]

You got me there... Everyone knows the smaller your frame the easier it is to conceal full size guns. [emoji849]

Better not tell that to like...the whole shitload of large dudes who successfully carry AIWB.

[GearFondler]

Better not tell that to like...the whole shitload of large dudes who successfully carry AIWB.Exactly... I was being sarcastic. Maybe the "rolled eyes" emoji didn't translate.
The bigger you are the more real estate you have to hide shit. And if your gut causes discomfort with AIWB then lose weight. That's what I did... I made a concerted effort to drop 30 lbs so AIWB was a lot more comfortable. I'm now better armed and healthier.

[jetfire]

Exactly... I was being sarcastic. Maybe the "rolled eyes" emoji didn't translate.
The bigger you are the more real estate you have to hide shit. And if your gut causes discomfort with AIWB then lose weight. That's what I did... I made a concerted effort to drop 30 lbs so AIWB was a lot more comfortable. I'm now better armed and healthier.

I was picking up the sarcasm and agreeing with you, actually.

[GearFondler]

I was picking up the sarcasm and agreeing with you, actually.Gotcha... High Five.

[Cypher]

I think I'm probably on ignore too but I'm going to echo somebody else's advice.

Before you go out and buy a new gun get a decent belt and a decent holster and some decent training.

Getting some actual, professional training changed my whole perspective. The very first thing I learned was how much I didn't know then as I started to improved I learned what didn't work.

I told this story before but I ended up changing how and where I carried my equipment. What kind of equipment I carried. What kind of gun I carried. I decided that having a "carry rotation" didn't work for me. And I got really serious about training and practice.

So my recommendation is go take a class and find out if what you're doing works before you do anything else

[corneileous]

I know you put me on your ignore list, however your statement is factually incorrect. Beretta does not recommend against carrying the M9 with the safety off at the professional level, and in fact produces guns that are designed to be carried with the hammer down and the safety off (the G-model). The designated mode of carry for MANY agencies, including mine (USAF SF) for our M9/92FS pistols is with the hammer down on a live round and the safety off.

Are we talking about the M9?? No. Well, at least I’m not, you are. I didn’t think I’d have to spell it out but for any of the PX4 Storms in a Type F configuration, BERETTA TOLD ME IN AN EMAIL WHEN I INQUIRED ABOUT IT AND THAT’S WHAT THEY TOLD ME!

Stop telling me “I’m factually incorrect” when I know what they told me.


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[BehindBlueI's]

Maybe the "rolled eyes" emoji didn't translate.


I suspect you're using tapatalk or something, but for those of us who don't when you guys use emojis all we see is:

[ e mo j i 8 4 9 ]

(spaces added, of course)

[FredWyn]

I'm just going to throw this out there: the Glock 48 is worth a look. I know some folks are uncomfortable carrying a striker-action with no external safety, but ... I'm a big believer in them. When I get my next discount card from the GSSF, I'm going to pick one up.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/2/26/range-report-glock-48-pistol/

[corneileous]

I suspect you're using tapatalk or something, but for those of us who don't when you guys use emojis all we see is:

[ e mo j i 8 4 9 ]

(spaces added, of course)

I just noticed that after you pointed it out. I use Tapatalk with all but a few forums I frequent but some web forums, the emojis show up on.... guess this isn’t one of them.


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[JTQ]

Are we talking about the M9?? No. Well, at least I’m not, you are. I didn’t think I’d have to spell it out but for any of the PX4 Storms in a Type F configuration, BERETTA TOLD ME IN AN EMAIL WHEN I INQUIRED ABOUT IT AND THAT’S WHAT THEY TOLD ME!

Stop telling me “I’m factually incorrect” when I know what they told me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Regardless of an M9/92FS/PX4F/etc., their safety/decockers all operate the same.

I (we, probably) don't doubt you may have had somebody at Beretta tell you that. However, the design (slide mounted safety/decocker) has been around since the Walther P38, and nearly everybody carries (has carried) those style of guns with the hammer down and the safety off, unless required differently by their employer.

Ernest Langdon on the Beretta 92FS. Go to about the 2:05 mark for his recommendation on how to carry an "F" model.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db8t-f54Im0

[fixer]

Are we talking about the M9?? No. Well, at least I’m not, you are. I didn’t think I’d have to spell it out but for any of the PX4 Storms in a Type F configuration, BERETTA TOLD ME IN AN EMAIL WHEN I INQUIRED ABOUT IT AND THAT’S WHAT THEY TOLD ME!

Stop telling me “I’m factually incorrect” when I know what they told me.


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Hate to burst your bubble bud but an email from a worker bee at Beretta less than 1/100th the authority of the folks challenging you to think in this thread.

I carried a 92/m9 for 2 years. It concealed fantastically well. The weight didn't bother me. I jogged with the sumbitch frequently.

I transitioned for various reasons outside the scope of the thread.

[Cypher]

https://i.postimg.cc/NMs4mNDB/FB_IMG_1527573214296.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[corneileous]

Regardless of an M9/92FS/PX4F/etc., their safety/decockers all operate the same.

I (we, probably) don't doubt you may have had somebody at Beretta tell you that. However, the design (slide mounted safety/decocker) has been around since the Walther P38, and nearly everybody carries (has carried) those style of guns with the hammer down and the safety off, unless required differently by their employer.

Ernest Langdon on the Beretta 92FS. Go to about the 2:05 mark for his recommendation on how to carry an "F" model.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db8t-f54Im0

I don’t doubt it at all one bit that Betetta’s tech support was probably just telling me- a civilian- who has a civilian type F pistol all that because of who they were telling it to.

Just despite thinking otherwise of that, I probably could’ve just left my pistols alone and not converted them to G’s but at the time, I never did get a straight answer if there was in fact any important difference between the two when they were loaded and chambered- one being an F and the other a G but I like that the levers are smaller.


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[JTQ]

That’s probably fine for a small frame like that but I’m almost another 100 pounds heavier than that. Besides, I’m not interested in appendix carry and nor do I want anything crammed on the inside of my waistband.

AIWB for big guys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V25JBR-TXX0

More from Lucky Gunner - PX4 Compact as a carry gun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAaC5o-9mpw

[sparkyfender]

My favorite single stack, hammer guns. 8 round mags, though. There are 10 rounders available for the Sig 239, though discontinued and pricey.

[corneileous]

Hate to burst your bubble bud but an email from a worker bee at Beretta less than 1/100th the authority of the folks challenging you to think in this thread.


No need to burst anybody’s bubble but why does it seem like so many of you think I’m taking what some employee of the the manufacturer said(or was most likely told to say) and using it to argue with?? That is not the case so stop acting like it is because yes, I agree with everyone here on it.

Even when I was told that, I struggled to wrap my mind around why they would tell me I shouldn’t carry a Type F with the safety off when a type G has no other option unless you duct-tape the lever down but take it up with them if what I was told by them irritates you guys so bad.



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[Trooper224]

He said a good pistol. ;)

I love me some Walther PP/PPK but it's not a gun I would run out and buy for concealed carry. So many sharp edges...Very mediocre DA trigger pull without lots of work. Shit sights. Also it's a heavy gun compared to anything polymer. And even with a flat magazine in place a PPK isn't what I would consider a "pocket" pistol.

That said if Walther made a new blued PPK in .32 ACP, I'd have one in like 5 seconds.

He set a pretty narrow set of parameters that I was trying to work with. That being said, I agree.

It doesn't really matter though. The OP has already established a pattern of asking for advice, then arguing with what he receives in a circular thread that will undoubtedly go nowhere.

[corneileous]

He set a pretty narrow set of parameters that I was trying to work with. That being said, I agree.

It doesn't really matter though. The OP has already established a pattern of asking for advice, then arguing with what he receives in a circular thread that will undoubtedly go nowhere.

You call it arguing, I call it discussing and asking questions.


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[JTQ]

Do you know the difference between TDA and SAO, because asking about 1911s in the same breath as decocker only doesn't make sense?




Yes. Well, what exactly is true double-action? My Storms are DA on that first shot but they’re not like the D’s that are that same DA shot all the way through.

I was confused by your response to BehindBlueI's post, until just now when it struck me you may think "TDA" stands for "true double-action". That is not the case.

TDA stands for "Traditional Double Action" in reference to semi-auto pistols. A TDA semi-auto is a pistol that is DA on the first trigger pull and SA on subsequent trigger pulls.

[corneileous]

I was confused by your response to BehindBlueI's post, until just now when it struck me you may think "TDA" stands for "true double-action". That is not the case.

TDA stands for "Traditional Double Action" in reference to semi-auto pistols. A TDA semi-auto is a pistol that is DA on the first trigger pull and SA on subsequent trigger pulls.

So what’s the difference between one TDA and the other TDA? But either way, what you describe that I outlined in italics is exactly how my Storms are as long as the hammer isn’t cocked on that first shot.




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[JSGlock34]

So what’s the difference between one TDA and the other TDA? But either way, what you describe that I outlined in italics is exactly how my Storms are as long as the hammer isn’t cocked on that first shot.

Traditional Double Action (TDA): The trigger cocks the hammer for the first shot; subsequently the hammer is cocked by the recoiling slide and remaining shots are fired in Single Action. Examples: Beretta 92FS, 92G, PX4 Type F/G.

Double Action Only (DAO): The trigger cocks the hammer for every shot. There is no single action notch; the hammer is never resting in a cocked position. Beretta 92D.

[JTQ]

So what’s the difference between one TDA and the other TDA?
I'm not sure I'm following your question.

Are you asking what's the difference between TDA (Traditional Double Action) and TDA (True Double-Action)? If that is the question, then there is not a term TDA = "True Double-Action". When somebody says a semi-auto pistol is TDA, they mean it is a Traditional Double Action with a DA/SA trigger.

Or perhaps, if your question is in reference to your response to BehindBlueI's, and you are asking about the difference between a TDA (Traditional Double Action) and DAO (Double Action Only) regarding which should be labeled TDA (True Double-Action). Since we don't use TDA to indicate "True Double-Action", you can eliminate that and choose between TDA (Traditional Double Action which is DA/SA) or DAO which is double action only.

Did either of those answer your question?

[corneileous]

I'm not sure I'm following your question.

Are you asking what's the difference between TDA (Traditional Double Action) and TDA (True Double-Action)? If that is the question, then there is not a term TDA = "True Double-Action". When somebody says a semi-auto pistol is TDA, they mean it is a Traditional Double Action with a DA/SA trigger.

Or perhaps, if your question is in reference to your response to BehindBlueI's, and you are asking about the difference between a TDA (Traditional Double Action) and DAO (Double Action Only) regarding which should be labeled TDA (True Double-Action). Since we don't use TDA to indicate "True Double-Action", you can eliminate that and choose between TDA (Traditional Double Action which is DA/SA) or DAO which is double action only.

Did either of those answer your question?

That’s what I was thinking.


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[Greg]

42822

[corneileous]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190921/7113e4faf56e29e4b830c4f9fec60c81.jpg


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[pangloss]

For the OP, maybe you should track down a Beretta 92 Compact Type M. It's a single stack pistol.

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk

[jetfire]

Are we talking about the M9?? No. Well, at least I’m not, you are. I didn’t think I’d have to spell it out but for any of the PX4 Storms in a Type F configuration, BERETTA TOLD ME IN AN EMAIL WHEN I INQUIRED ABOUT IT AND THAT’S WHAT THEY TOLD ME!

Stop telling me “I’m factually incorrect” when I know what they told me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The Type-F mechanism that's used in the Storm and the 90-Series pistols performs the same mechanical function. Beretta advised you to carry it on safe for liability purposes, or perhaps because you said that you're carrying the gun in your pocket without a holster, which is a fucking stupid place to carry your gun.

I've decided that this entire conversation has been an utter waste of my time, and you're the sort of person who likely shouldn't be carrying a gun to begin with.

[corneileous]

The Type-F mechanism that's used in the Storm and the 90-Series pistols performs the same mechanical function. Beretta advised you to carry it on safe for liability purposes, or perhaps because you said that you're carrying the gun in your pocket without a holster, which is a fucking stupid place to carry your gun.
Open mouth insert foot? First off, that’s some deep ass pockets of you’re gonna carry something like that in a pocket. Second, that is not what I asked and for your information, I just simply asked the difference. Nothing more, nothing less.


I've decided that this entire conversation has been an utter waste of my time...
Boo boo. Thank you for sharing that with us. I bet you made so many people’s day complete now that we know that.


...and you're the sort of person who likely shouldn't be carrying a gun to begin with.
Wow... judgmental much?



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[jetfire]

Wow... judgmental much?



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Yes. I am. While you certainly have a constituional right to carry a gun, perhaps it's not the best self-defense choice for you. It's a tremendous responsibility, being armed, and your conduct on this forum suggests you're not really well equipped for that.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

[QUOTE=jetfire;933072

I've decided that this entire conversation has been an utter waste of my time, and you're the sort of person who likely shouldn't be carrying a gun to begin with.[/QUOTE]

Just want to say that this type of attitude is seriously off putting to anyone new to serious pistolcraft that genuinely wants to learn more and improve. We all started somewhere, and if you think back a few years I would be willing to bet you strongly held a number of ideas you now find idiotic.

For myself, I remember digesting all of Springfields marketing and youtube "reviews" about the XD series which convinced me the XDM was the most advanced and highest quality handgun on the market. Then I actually rented an XDM and couldnt believe how much it felt like a cheap toy and how different the experience was from the image put into my head by marketing. That was the first experience that showed me how little I actually knew and lead me to seeking reputable advice and experience.

Just yesterday I bought a gun and had a conversation with the dealer. He proudly pulled out his EDC: a ruger LCP loaded with G2 RIP. After showing it to me, he proceeded to load the gun by shoving the first round directly onto the chamber and closed the slide on that round. This was just after telling me how his last LCP had a damaged extractor "from shooting too much Wolf".
Now I could have taken the attitude many have taken in this thread and told this guy he didn't know shit about guns and shooting and needed to stop carrying until he took a few classes and could get a consistent 7S FAST etc...... which would have caused him to shut down and probably call me an asshole (which would be correct), and certainly would NOT have motivated him to change any of his gun related beliefs or choices.
Instead I did tell him that loading the gun like that will seriously damage the extractor, taking as little of a smartass tone as I could manage. Maybe if I speak to him again I will mention in a friendly way why I personally wouldnt carry a gun I cant perform to a given standard on, and maybe that will get his noggin joggin in the right direction. If he does choose to go in that direction, there is a good chance someone will eventually explain to him why gimmicky 380 rounds are a horrible choice for self defence. In any case, neither he nor anyone else will make any changes in their life if they feel personally attacked to do so.

If you really feel this conversation isnt worth your time then just dont spend your time replying to or reading this thread. Making personal attacks when someone is genuinely asking for advice helps nobody. In general this elitist attitude turns away a lot of people who might otherwise go down a path of knowledge and improvement when it comes to serious self defense and pistolcraft.

/rant

[jetfire]

If you really feel this conversation isnt worth your time then just dont spend your time replying to or reading this thread. Making personal attacks when someone is genuinely asking for advice helps nobody. In general this elitist attitude turns away a lot of people who might otherwise go down a path of knowledge and improvement when it comes to serious self defense and pistolcraft.

/rant

I didn't decide that it wasn't worth my time until after I had actually tried to respond in good faith. That's sort of the rule: I'm not interesting in investing my time and effort into threads where other parties aren't actually engaging in good faith. If you want to have your shitty choices justified by a crowd of low-information assclowns, fuck right off to TTAG or Arfcom (I don't mean you specifically, dude).

[john c]

I go back and forth on this thread. I think the OP really wants to learn something, since he's reading and searching out new stuff, and some of that is contradictory. On the other hand, he does pipe up with some mildly cringeworthy retorts that are unnecessary and make him sound like a doofus. I hope he sticks around, shuts up, and learns some things here. I know I have, including the part about shutting up.

To address one of the OP's points, pocket carry is a tremendously bad idea without some sort of pocket holster that covers the trigger. In fact, I would say that any pistol not in your hand should have the trigger covered to avoid foreign objects from actuating the trigger. The difference is that a proper holster is rigid enough to prevent brushing up against something that will affect the gun. Your shorts or pants aren't stiff enough. This means that you're at risk of something accidentally pulling the trigger (or cocking the hammer, then pulling the trigger) and shooting yourself or others. Get a pocket holster or, better yet, a belt holster. If you can afford it, get a decent belt, a decent holster, and take a one or two day class. You'll get most of the answers you're looking for.

As others have pointed out, with a PX4C you likely don't need a new or different pistol. These are fantastic pistols, and will do everything you need them to do. Secondly, it was a great idea to convert both to type G, rather than have them with different operating systems. I would do the same in your shoes, plus I dislike manual safeties for my use and carry methods. (Though if you continue to pocket carry, type F is likely slightly better)

I drove a big rig in college, and I liked it a lot. If my circumstances were to change, I would definitely considering getting back into a rig. Only for the warm months. I can't image how you guys drive in sleet and snow. My hat is off to you and DougAK.

[corneileous]

Yes. I am. While you certainly have a constituional right to carry a gun, perhaps it's not the best self-defense choice for you. It's a tremendous responsibility, being armed, and your conduct on this forum suggests you're not really well equipped for that.

You got all this just from asking questions and not backing down to bullying just because I’m the new guy??

But damn, I guess I oughta just turn my permit in and sell all my guns because I guess the high and mighty buttfire.... I mean jetfire has spoken he don’t think I’m qualified to do nothin....

Too bad I could give a shit less what you think but if you’re trying to get my thread closed because of senseless bickering from some joker who just don’t know when to keep is mouth shut then you’re doing an excellent job....


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[corneileous]

Just want to say that this type of attitude is seriously off putting to anyone new to serious pistolcraft that genuinely wants to learn more and improve. We all started somewhere, and if you think back a few years I would be willing to bet you strongly held a number of ideas you now find idiotic.

For myself, I remember digesting all of Springfields marketing and youtube "reviews" about the XD series which convinced me the XDM was the most advanced and highest quality handgun on the market. Then I actually rented an XDM and couldnt believe how much it felt like a cheap toy and how different the experience was from the image put into my head by marketing. That was the first experience that showed me how little I actually knew and lead me to seeking reputable advice and experience.

Just yesterday I bought a gun and had a conversation with the dealer. He proudly pulled out his EDC: a ruger LCP loaded with G2 RIP. After showing it to me, he proceeded to load the gun by shoving the first round directly onto the chamber and closed the slide on that round. This was just after telling me how his last LCP had a damaged extractor "from shooting too much Wolf".
Now I could have taken the attitude many have taken in this thread and told this guy he didn't know shit about guns and shooting and needed to stop carrying until he took a few classes and could get a consistent 7S FAST etc...... which would have caused him to shut down and probably call me an asshole (which would be correct), and certainly would NOT have motivated him to change any of his gun related beliefs or choices.
Instead I did tell him that loading the gun like that will seriously damage the extractor, taking as little of a smartass tone as I could manage. Maybe if I speak to him again I will mention in a friendly way why I personally wouldnt carry a gun I cant perform to a given standard on, and maybe that will get his noggin joggin in the right direction. If he does choose to go in that direction, there is a good chance someone will eventually explain to him why gimmicky 380 rounds are a horrible choice for self defence. In any case, neither he nor anyone else will make any changes in their life if they feel personally attacked to do so.

If you really feel this conversation isnt worth your time then just dont spend your time replying to or reading this thread. Making personal attacks when someone is genuinely asking for advice helps nobody. In general this elitist attitude turns away a lot of people who might otherwise go down a path of knowledge and improvement when it comes to serious self defense and pistolcraft.

/rant

Thank you.


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[corneileous]

I go back and forth on this thread. I think the OP really wants to learn something, since he's reading and searching out new stuff, and some of that is contradictory. On the other hand, he does pipe up with some mildly cringeworthy retorts that are unnecessary and make him sound like a doofus. I hope he sticks around, shuts up, and learns some things here. I know I have, including the part about shutting up.

To address one of the OP's points, pocket carry is a tremendously bad idea without some sort of pocket holster that covers the trigger. In fact, I would say that any pistol not in your hand should have the trigger covered to avoid foreign objects from actuating the trigger. The difference is that a proper holster is rigid enough to prevent brushing up against something that will affect the gun. Your shorts or pants aren't stiff enough. This means that you're at risk of something accidentally pulling the trigger (or cocking the hammer, then pulling the trigger) and shooting yourself or others. Get a pocket holster or, better yet, a belt holster. If you can afford it, get a decent belt, a decent holster, and take a one or two day class. You'll get most of the answers you're looking for.

As others have pointed out, with a PX4C you likely don't need a new or different pistol. These are fantastic pistols, and will do everything you need them to do. Secondly, it was a great idea to convert both to type G, rather than have them with different operating systems. I would do the same in your shoes, plus I dislike manual safeties for my use and carry methods. (Though if you continue to pocket carry, type F is likely slightly better)

I drove a big rig in college, and I liked it a lot. If my circumstances were to change, I would definitely considering getting back into a rig. Only for the warm months. I can't image how you guys drive in sleet and snow. My hat is off to you and DougAK.

Yes, the OP- me... wants to learn something just despite a major consensus here who probably feels otherwise. Just like in that other thread I made that got shut down due to senseless arguing from folks, about asking about how to maybe get over being uncomfortable around striker-fired pistols with just a “trigger safety”. I still may not ever own a Glock but I was sure impressed about learning about an aftermarket device that makes them a little safer. But ya know, people think I’m not here to learn. Lol.

But I’m sorry you think my retorts- like the ones here last few posts ago to choice member jetfire- are how you perceive them to be but hey, how about cutting the bullshit?? Then there wouldn’t be a need for my retorts. How ‘bout we act like men- and women if there are any here and start posting like adults.

Anywho... yeah, I pocket carry, but it’s not any of my storms. My Ruger LC9S is what gets carried. And it does get carried on what I hope would be a good pocket holster.


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[Doc_Glock]

Yes, the OP- me... wants to learn something just despite a major consensus here who probably feels otherwise. But ya know, people think I’m not here to learn. Lol.


What exactly do you want to learn? Can you repost your question?

Also, why do you want to carry a gun?

[Cypher]

The Type-F mechanism that's used in the Storm and the 90-Series pistols performs the same mechanical function. Beretta advised you to carry it on safe for liability purposes, or perhaps because you said that you're carrying the gun in your pocket without a holster, which is a fucking stupid place to carry your gun.

I've decided that this entire conversation has been an utter waste of my time, and you're the sort of person who likely shouldn't be carrying a gun to begin with.

There are not enough likes in the World

[corneileous]

There are not enough likes in the World

Lol!!!!!

Too bad there’s not a dislike button because there wouldn’t be enough of those for condoning this behavior.


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[Cypher]

Just want to say that this type of attitude is seriously off putting to anyone new to serious pistolcraft that genuinely wants to learn more and improve. We all started somewhere, and if you think back a few years I would be willing to bet you strongly held a number of ideas you now find idiotic.

For myself, I remember digesting all of Springfields marketing and youtube "reviews" about the XD series which convinced me the XDM was the most advanced and highest quality handgun on the market. Then I actually rented an XDM and couldnt believe how much it felt like a cheap toy and how different the experience was from the image put into my head by marketing. That was the first experience that showed me how little I actually knew and lead me to seeking reputable advice and experience.

Just yesterday I bought a gun and had a conversation with the dealer. He proudly pulled out his EDC: a ruger LCP loaded with G2 RIP. After showing it to me, he proceeded to load the gun by shoving the first round directly onto the chamber and closed the slide on that round. This was just after telling me how his last LCP had a damaged extractor "from shooting too much Wolf".
Now I could have taken the attitude many have taken in this thread and told this guy he didn't know shit about guns and shooting and needed to stop carrying until he took a few classes and could get a consistent 7S FAST etc...... which would have caused him to shut down and probably call me an asshole (which would be correct), and certainly would NOT have motivated him to change any of his gun related beliefs or choices.
Instead I did tell him that loading the gun like that will seriously damage the extractor, taking as little of a smartass tone as I could manage. Maybe if I speak to him again I will mention in a friendly way why I personally wouldnt carry a gun I cant perform to a given standard on, and maybe that will get his noggin joggin in the right direction. If he does choose to go in that direction, there is a good chance someone will eventually explain to him why gimmicky 380 rounds are a horrible choice for self defence. In any case, neither he nor anyone else will make any changes in their life if they feel personally attacked to do so.

If you really feel this conversation isnt worth your time then just dont spend your time replying to or reading this thread. Making personal attacks when someone is genuinely asking for advice helps nobody. In general this elitist attitude turns away a lot of people who might otherwise go down a path of knowledge and improvement when it comes to serious self defense and pistolcraft.

/rant

The OP has been doing this for YEARS on various forums. Same MO every time.

[pangloss]

I can't even remember the original question now, but whatever it was, the number of possible solutions is very finite: different pistol, different location of carry, different holster, new pants with a slightly larger waist size to accommodate IWB carry, etc. I haven't seen any of the Beretta holsters in person, but online they don't look very impressive. Since you're relatively pleased with the PX4c, I think you should check with JM Custom Kydex, describe your situation, and see which of their OWB holsters (LINK (https://www.jmcustomkydex.com/c/OWB-Holsters.html)) would likely work best for you. The owner, Tony Mayer, is a member here, and many of us are very satisfied customers. A genuinely good holster can make a huge difference in how the guns carries. The difference between a good holster and a bad holster is not necessarily apparent to the untrained eye.

[corneileous]

What exactly do you want to learn? Can you repost your question?
As far as learning? Whatever I can. As far as my question- actually if there were such a thing, a single stack version of a PX4 Storm sub-compact. Doesn’t even have to be 10 rounds or even 10+ rounds. Just something like that. I’d really love to get that SC Storm as it comes but that’s just a little too much.

That little Springfield XDE sounded like a great one to consider but again since this thread kinda turned into the other one I made about methods of carry, I may not even need to look into a new gun, and just try to find some shirts that would conceal either the Ruger or maybe even my compact Storm in a pancake holster worn outside the waistband.


Also, why do you want to carry a gun?

Is this a trick question?


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[corneileous]

The OP has been doing this for YEARS on various forums. Same MO every time.

Doing what, putting up with people like you? For that, you would be right.


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[jetfire]

In the interest of world peace, I actually went back to the OP's post, since people were accusing me of not wanting to actually provide a solution. In this longish post, I will address literally EVERY one of OP's questions, and concerns. My answers to his issues will be inline with his original quote post, in italicized parentheticals and signed with "-C" my first initial.


Don’t get me wrong, my little Ruger LC9S has served me well. I’ve enjoyed carrying it but because it was pretty much the only thing that I felt would satisfy my needs, back when I got it, I’m just curious what all else might be out there that might serve me better.

Yes, I am a fan of the PX4 Storm series by Beretta and after really liking carrying concealed in a cargo pocket of a pair of cargo pants (and shorts) (you're carrying a PX4 Storm in cargo pockets? This is an awful place to carry as it limits access and doesn't block the trigger guard. -C), I figured maybe I’d finally have enough reason and justification to get me one of those little sub-compact Storms because they work identical to my other three Storms. And, I can make it a Type-G decocker only to match the others but, even though it’s small, it’s still a heavy little gun. It’s like my Ruger but one and a half...lol.

So with that said, what would be a good DA/SA decocker only, single-stack pistol about or close to the size of the Ruger? (The only pistol that meets this criteria is the Langdon XD-E, it's 800 bucks. -C) How would one of those little baby 1911’s work? (baby 1911s are not TDA and thus are excluded from your original parameters -C) l know that’s not within the parameters of a single-stack(if there was one) SC Storm but it would however be very similar to how I carry my 10mm Sig out in the woods cocked and locked. Would that make a good pocket-carry pistol?

Don’t really think I want anything striker-fired as I really have become accustomed to hammer-fired guns.

I guess there’s always the possibility of revolvers too but I like being able to carry upwards of ten rounds without having to reload. Which, I know, I’ve often thought about the idea of carrying a second magazine and now that cargo pocket carry is very doable and much more comfortable (please get a holster - C), it also makes it a lot easier to carry a spare mag.

Thoughts? Thanks.


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Now, thoughts from me. What you actually need is a proper holster and a belt. Pocket carry of any type is a really lousy way to carry, and if you don't use a holster with your pocket carry it's also dangerous. You already own two guns that are perfectly acceptable for concealed carry, and I suspect that you're simply looking for a gear solution to a software issue, or perhaps looking to emotionally justify your next purchase. Your best bet would simply to be buying a quality holster for your PX4 and carrying that, or buying a pocket holster for whatever baby Ruger you mentioned above.

If you're committed to the TDA single stack, then a Langdon XD-E is your only realistic choice, unless you want to hunt the used market for a 3913.

Also cut back on your carbs.

[corneileous]

I can't even remember the original question now, but whatever it was, the number of possible solutions is very finite: different pistol, different location of carry, different holster, new pants with a slightly larger waist size to accommodate IWB carry, etc. I haven't seen any of the Beretta holsters in person, but online they don't look very impressive. Since you're relatively pleased with the PX4c, I think you should check with JM Custom Kydex, describe your situation, and see which of their OWB holsters (LINK (https://www.jmcustomkydex.com/c/OWB-Holsters.html)) would likely work best for you. The owner, Tony Mayer, is a member here, and many of us are very satisfied customers. A genuinely good holster can make a huge difference in how the guns carries. The difference between a good holster and a bad holster is not necessarily apparent to the untrained eye.

This is what I have but for the full-size Storm.

https://www.berettausa.com/en-us/ra-holster-px4-comp-rh-blk-blk-lthr/e01130/

I’ll check that link out, thanks.



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[Doc_Glock]

As far as learning? Whatever I can. As far as my question- actually if there were such a thing, a single stack version of a PX4 Storm sub-compact.

Is this a trick question?


The XDE is the only small DA/SA pistol I know of in production.

But I agree you are better off coming up with a solid carry method for what you have.

Not a trick question at all in the why carry a gun thing. Would “to preserve my life?” be assuming too much in your answer?

[corneileous]

This is an awful place to carry as it limits access and doesn't block the trigger guard. -C)
I apologize, I’m usually a much better editor of my posts but with the size this thread has grown to, I over looked it but I need to correct that. I don’t pocket carry any of my storms. I was talking about pocket carrying with the Ruger.


(The only pistol that meets this criteria is the Langdon XD-E, it's 800 bucks. -C)
What’s the difference between his version and the stock version of that?



(baby 1911s are not TDA and thus are excluded from your original parameters -C)
Thank you, but I think that’s already been decided.

I didn’t quote that last part because is co-relates with the first part you quoted.





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[jetfire]

I apologize, I’m usually a much better editor of my posts but with the size this thread has grown to, I over looked it but I need to correct that. I don’t pocket carry any of my storms. I was talking about pocket carrying with the Ruger.


What’s the difference between his version and the stock version of that?



Thank you, but I think that’s already been decided.

I didn’t quote that last part because is co-relates with the first part you quoted.




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The Langdon XDE has notable performance upgrades which make it superior to the stock XDE. I wouldn't recommend a stock XDE, but I would recommend the Langdon model.

[corneileous]

The XDE is the only small DA/SA pistol I know of in production.
I’ll look more into it.

But I agree you are better off coming up with a solid carry method for what you have.
Makes sense.



Not a trick question at all in the why carry a gun thing. Would “to preserve my life?” be assuming too much in your answer?
I figured it was implied. Why else would we be interested in carrying a gun? And I’m being serious here. I truly thought you might of been asking me a trick question.


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[BehindBlueI's]

I go back and forth on this thread. I think the OP really wants to learn something, since he's reading and searching out new stuff, and some of that is contradictory. On the other hand, he does pipe up with some mildly cringeworthy retorts that are unnecessary and make him sound like a doofus. .

This.


You got all this just from asking questions and not backing down to bullying just because I’m the new guy??

But damn, I guess I oughta just turn my permit in and sell all my guns because I guess the high and mighty buttfire.... I mean jetfire

This is one big reason people are reacting poorly to you. You are coming across as a sulky child who has to slap back at any slight, real or perceived. I've given you the benefit of the doubt and assumed your online persona doesn't reflect you in real life. I'm hoping you're here to learn like you keep claiming. However posts like this make me second guess that. You are digging a hole feeling like you need to respond to any perceived slight with this school-yard antics. It's tiresome.


Yes, the OP- me... wants to learn something just despite a major consensus here who probably feels otherwise.

When you're getting that reaction from the majority, maybe stop and think about why and if you're presenting yourself like you want to. I think you'll find your opportunity to learn curtailed if you continue the path you are on now.

[corneileous]

This.


C’mon, man. I mean, I get it, the need to fit in with the majority is one thing but, c’mon.

It is not that.


This is one big reason people are reacting poorly to you.
It is?? You do realize that 90% of This is pure reaction to first shots fired??


You are coming across as a sulky child who has to slap back at any slight, real or perceived.
Excuse me for not seeing all this as anything but jabs to the new guy who just isn’t laying there expected like a dog to be kicked and to never bite back.


I've given you the benefit of the doubt and assumed your online persona doesn't reflect you in real life.
Funny, I just figured you were one of the ones being serious and not adding to the bullshit.


I'm hoping you're here to learn like you keep claiming.

Well, do I need to draw it out for guys? Get the slide rule and the overhead projector? Because yes, that’s the only reason I keep hanging around and hadn’t gone elsewhere yet.

However posts like this make me second guess that.
Well, I’m sorry you feel that way. Please revert to the lying dog comment above.


You are digging a hole feeling like you need to respond to any perceived slight with this school-yard antics.
It’s exactly that, schoolyard antics because I’m new here. People think they can just say what they want and expect me to not react.


It's tiresome.
Yes, it is. I really wish we could move forward and stop with all this. It’s getting very tiresome. I’ve already had one thread closed because of it.



When you're getting that reaction from the majority, maybe stop and think about why and if you're presenting yourself like you want to.
So the phrase- “Birds of a feather, flock together” mean nothing?


I think you'll find your opportunity to learn curtailed if you continue the path you are on now.
You’re probably right.



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[corneileous]

Trying to get back on topic, does anyone have one of those Springfield XD-E’s? I see they make one in a 45 as well. Maybe it’s just me but I would think this small of a gun in 45 would be a bit much. Thoughts? I think if I did go this route the 9mm version would be the better choice.


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[john c]

Is this a trick question?


You’re going to get very different answers to your original question if you say, “I’m hunting Cape buffalo in S. Africa and need a reliable backup to my 450 Nitro Express double rifle” versus “I need a sock drawer pistol for my 87 year old grandmother”.

What specific situations and threats do you face that determine or constrain your choices of handgun?

Again, assume that we really want to help you. Already, we’ve pointed you towards the XD-E, which appears to likely work for you.

I suggest a PX4C in a good holster for commonality with your primary pistols.

Good luck!


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[corneileous]

You’re going to get very different answers to your original question if you say, “I’m hunting Cape buffalo in S. Africa and need a reliable backup to my 450 Nitro Express double rifle” versus “I need a sock drawer pistol for my 87 year old grandmother”.

What specific situations and threats do you face that determine or constrain your choices of handgun?

Again, assume that we really want to help you. Already, we’ve pointed you towards the XD-E, which appears to likely work for you.

I suggest a PX4C in a good holster for commonality with your primary pistols.

Good luck!


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I get it, that’s why I didn’t lead off that way.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen one of these little Springfield’s, much less even heard of one but, in considering it even before I’ve even seen one, it’s sounds like a pretty good option that maybe I could’ve even pursued way back then when I was looking for a CC gun the first time.

But I have a PX4 Storm Compact chambered in 9mm. It’s a nice little gun.


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[LittleLebowski]

More tech talk, less feelings.