Feeling safe with pistols that just have trigger safeties and not slide safeties.

[corneileous]

Just curious of advice there is to be given about overcoming being uncomfortable with a gun that only relies on a trigger safety.

I’ve just never cared for them. Nothing against Glocks really, I just never was interested in one because of all the horror stories that usually come with these types of pistols. The only pistol I have in my arsenal that is even close to one of these is my little EDC Ruger LC9S that has a safety. At one point before I bought it, I even considered the “Pro” version of this pistol but, wasn’t happy with the lack of a slide safety on it so that’s why I bought what I bought.

Just curious if there’s anyway to overcome that.

Thanks.


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[vaglocker]

Where is your mental sticking point? Holstering? If that is the case then a device like the "Gadget" for the Glock is where it is at.

[BehindBlueI's]

Number of people who've shot themselves with a striker fired pistol when a thumb safety may have prevented it: >0
Number of people who've shot themselves with a thumb safety equipped pistol because they relied on the safety: >0
Number of people who've lost fights because they didn't deactivate their thumb safety: >0


A thumb safety is an extra layer of security, if you want it or not. I don't and if I had not external factors, a TDA is my favorite balance between easy to shoot and easy to not shoot. Pick your poison, practice good safety procedures, remember anyone can screw up.

[RevolverRob]

BBI nailed it, as usual.

For ME - I like a gun with a hammer. Most hammer guns have a decocker or a manual safety or both integrated together. The hammer and thumb safety allows me to maintain certain kinds of manipulation habits that are hard-wired at this point in my life and make me feel more confident (not over confident) in my handling.

I like revolvers for similar reasons.

That said, one of my favorite guns are the Kahr series of pistols. They shoot very well for me due to the grip shape. They also lack an external safety or even "trigger" safety (in the sense of a Glock or M&P or whatever) and do not have a hammer. However, they have a relatively long, albeit smooth, trigger pull. I have no problem carrying these guns or even holstering them in an appendix position, but I definitely have to reset my brain if I switch to and start carrying them regularly.

At the end of the day, it's ultimately the gun and firing system you feel comfortable with that you can shoot the best, that you should use.

Don't let anyone convince you that one trigger is better than another. It is strictly a matter of personal preference and practice to shoot them well.

[corneileous]

Where is your mental sticking point? Holstering? If that is the case then a device like the "Gadget" for the Glock is where it is at.

Hmm, I had no idea someone made such a device. But if I’m reading that correctly, that basically pretty much incorporates the same concept as riding your thumb on the hammer as you holster a typical DA pistol like a Beretta Storm or 92/96?

But yeah, that is one of the areas of slide safety-less guns, is when holstering.

But I guess maybe I should add that I do have three handguns that no longer have a safety on them, and that’s my three Beretta PX4 storms after I converted them from a type F to a type G.

But, I feel a lot safer with these guns because number one, even though they don’t have a safety anymore- just a decocker, but as long as the hammer is never pulled back, I feel pretty safe with that full, 10-pound trigger pull they have in DA mode. And for added security, I like that I can ride the hammer as I push them into a holster and not have to worry about the trigger catching on anything if it ever does.


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[revchuck38]

My "mental sticking point" is holstering. My preference is TDA with a decocker rather than a safety, with an external hammer being a plus. After that, it's a gun with a thumb safety. My sole outlier is my M&P40 which has no thumb safety, and it's my dedicated nightstand gun with a WML.

[JHC]

I've handled, carried and shot 1911s and Glocks by far more than anything else. I like the 1911's thumb safety but mostly for every time I reholster.

With both, when the gun is hot and outside the holster I treat it like I was fixing to milk a rattlesnake; and I have no experience milking rattlesnakes btw. That's how I feel secure with the Glocks.

[corneileous]

Number of people who've shot themselves with a striker fired pistol when a thumb safety may have prevented it: >0
Number of people who've shot themselves with a thumb safety equipped pistol because they relied on the safety: >0
Number of people who've lost fights because they didn't deactivate their thumb safety: >0

I guess I don’t follow how someone could make such a claim when I’ve read many of times, where someone ran a bullet all the down their leg or shot themselves in the foot from not being careful as they holstered a pistol like this.

I’ve never heard anything regarding your second statistic but how can you say someone hasn’t ever made a grave error and lost a gunfight because they forgot to take the safety off? I mean, isn’t that primarily what the argument is for the “anti-slide safety” crowd, is the possibility of forgetting to disengage the safety?

Before converting my Storms, the only guns I’ve been around and shot have all been guns with safeties so, that’s really all I know. Hopefully I won’t ever have to find out for sure, but hopefully if that time ever comes around that I can say I feel real confident in remembering to take the safety off as soon as I pull the gun from the holster in a tense situation like that.


A thumb safety is an extra layer of security, if you want it or not. I don’t and if I had not external factors, a TDA is my favorite balance between easy to shoot and easy to not shoot. Pick your poison, practice good safety procedures, remember anyone can screw up.

I don’t know, hopefully my new found method of conceal carry in a pair of cargo pants works out because if it does, I might have found a new excuse to get me one of those little Beretta PX4 storm subcompacts that I’ve always had my eye on for quite some time but never bought one because even though they’re small, I just never got one because it’s like two of my little Ruger LC9S’s put together.

I think something like that converted to a type G would make a pretty good concealment pistol if the weight and the width of it wasn’t going to be a factor.


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[BehindBlueI's]

I guess I don’t follow how someone could make such a claim when I’ve read many of times...


It took me a second, but I'm thinking you don't realize ">0" means "greater than zero".

[corneileous]

It took me a second, but I'm thinking you don't realize ">0" means "greater than zero".

My bad. I guess I was just for some reason under the impression that you were using the “>” symbol the same as one would use a dash, semi-colon, bracket or parentheses...


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[BehindBlueI's]

My bad. I guess I was just for some reason under the impression that you were using the “>” symbol the same as one would use a dash, semi-colon, bracket or parentheses...


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Punctuation anarchy! Not from me.

[Totem Polar]

Two things changed the game for me:understanding how Glocks work, and the gadget. OMMV.

[GardoneVT]

If being a volunteer RSO has shown me anything, it’s that anyone can be unsafe regardless of weapon platform.

[corneileous]

Punctuation anarchy! Not from me.

Cut me some slack, man. I haven’t even thought of “greater-than/less than math problems since grade school....[emoji23]


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[corneileous]

Two things changed the game for me:understanding how Glocks work, and the gadget. OMMV.

That is a game changer, that’s for sure. I wonder if they make this for other guns?


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[HeavyDuty]

I came up shooting PPC, and thumb retention of the hammer during reholstering was beaten into me. I have to say the Gadget has been a wonderful development for me and how I approach reholstering.

[RevolverRob]

That is a game changer, that’s for sure. I wonder if they make this for other guns?


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At present the Striker Control Device is only available for Glocks and to my understanding, the way the Glock works and other guns don’t work is what allows it to work.

But we can ask Tom_Jones to confirm this.

Honestly, I’ve never, NEVER, been a Glock guy. But sometimes I think about buying a G17 and SCD (“gadget”), just because I appreciate the ingenuity behind the device.

[Danjojo]

I'm a DA/SA guy but comfortable with typical striker fired pistols as well. Did take a while to get near the same level of comfort. Holstering not so much, just general administrative handling.

Most of it is mental as you follow the same steps and sacred principles of trigger finger discipline and muzzle awareness. Good amounts of dry fire and handling the 110% unloaded pistol can help the mental aspect. Even a Walther PPQ takes a deliberate press of the trigger.

[Trooper224]

Is there any real need to overcome your aversion? With so many other quality designs out there, not caring for the no-manual safety striker fired gun hardly seems like a hindrance.

I carried a 1911 for over twenty years and never gave a thought to the safety. Then, I moved onto other designs and I'm now to the point where a manual safety is one of the features I desire least. My personal preference has become a TDA pistol. I didn't gravitate in that direction because of the initial DA trigger pull specifically. However, I don't find it an impediment to good shooting and it also provides an excellent layer of additional safety, so why not?

I know the striker fired gun with a dingus on the trigger is the order of the day. However, if you don't like it there's no need to waste time pondering it. After all, we currently live with an embarrassment of riches when it comes to quality pistol designs.

[HCM]

Just curious of advice there is to be given about overcoming being uncomfortable with a gun that only relies on a trigger safety.

I’ve just never cared for them. Nothing against Glocks really, I just never was interested in one because of all the horror stories that usually come with these types of pistols. The only pistol I have in my arsenal that is even close to one of these is my little EDC Ruger LC9S that has a safety. At one point before I bought it, I even considered the “Pro” version of this pistol but, wasn’t happy with the lack of a slide safety on it so that’s why I bought what I bought.

Just curious if there’s anyway to overcome that.

Thanks.


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Your basic premise is factually incorrect.

Tab safeties on triggers like Glocks, modern bolt Rifles etc are not “trigger safeties”. They are inertia / drop safeties.

[AKDoug]

I stopped carrying fully tensions striker fired pistols about 6 years ago because I wasn't comfortable with the idea, even though statistically they seem to be perfectly safe.

I went to a Glock for my primary sidearm after that. I feel that the safety method of a Glock is superior to other striker fired pistols. However, holstering a Glock is something very serious to consider and there have been instances of Glocks firing when a foreign object gets into the holster while holstering, ie: a coat adjuster string of shirts. I have a habit of cutting off all adjusters on my jackets just for this reason. I mistakenly forgot my jacket on a road trip and bought a new one. I was in a hurry in the hotel and went to holster my G19 in an OWB holster and it had grabbed up the adjuster barrel in the trigger guard. I felt it, but couldn't see what was going on. Luckily my wife was there to assist. It could have been fairly bad. I have also holstered loose shirts a couple times. Now, it's just another thing on my mental check list.

These things can happen even with a decocked DA/SA pistol, but the trigger pull length will be far longer than on a Glock.

[Darth_Uno]

Glock's explanation: https://eu.glock.com/en/technology/safe-action-system

And a much more thorough explanation: https://overwatchprecision.com/blog/glock-safeties-the-basics/

[corneileous]

Your basic premise is factually incorrect.

Tab safeties on triggers like Glocks, modern bolt Rifles etc are not “trigger safeties”. They are inertia / drop safeties.

Well, excuse my lack of correct terminology but I think it’s pretty well known that I’m referring to the little mechanical device on the trigger that makes it “safe” by requiring it gets depressed properly to allow the trigger to move.


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[claymore504]

Why try to overcome that concern? There are plenty of options out there to go with that are not striker fored with no manual safety. Go DA/SA with de-cocker, go DA/SA with a manual safety, go SAO with a manual safety. Go with a true DAO.

[corneileous]

Is there any real need to overcome your aversion? With so many other quality designs out there, not caring for the no-manual safety striker fired gun hardly seems like a hindrance.

I was just looking at the possibility of opening up to what more is in the market, and if there was a way to feel confident with a typical gun like a Glock.


I carried a 1911 for over twenty years and never gave a thought to the safety. Then, I moved onto other designs and I'm now to the point where a manual safety is one of the features I desire least. My personal preference has become a TDA pistol. I didn't gravitate in that direction because of the initial DA trigger pull specifically. However, I don't find it an impediment to good shooting and it also provides an excellent layer of additional safety, so why not?
That’s what I like about my Storms. I haven’t tried any other guns in the same category as a PX4 Beretta.


I know the striker fired gun with a dingus on the trigger is the order of the day. However, if you don't like it there's no need to waste time pondering it. After all, we currently live with an embarrassment of riches when it comes to quality pistol designs.

Again, I was just looking at broadening my perspective to other guns on the market.

I do like the fact that you can make a Glock a little safer with that Gadget thing. Who knows, because of that, I may have a Glock in my possession some day.



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[corneileous]

Why try to overcome that concern? There are plenty of options out there to go with that are not striker fored with no manual safety. Go DA/SA with de-cocker, go DA/SA with a manual safety, go SAO with a manual safety. Go with a true DAO.

I guess in addition to what I told Trooper would be for looking for a different EDC gun that would go with the same premise as my other hand guns. The 10 mm Sig I have is however in a class of its own because it’s similar to a 1911 by being carried cocked and locked. But it’s the only thing I carry in the woods so along with it comes different mind set.


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[blues]

Again, I was just looking at broadening my perspective to other guns on the market.

I do like the fact that you can make a Glock a little safer with that Gadget thing. Who knows, because of that, I may have a Glock in my possession some day.

I carried Glocks for nearly 30 years in appendix fashion without a mishap. That said, after doing a modicum of research about the design and its creator, I decided that it was a small investment worth making. Now, with the "gadget", I feel like I would have to try to create a ND while reholstering.

It may not be indispensable, but now that I've had one on each of my three Glocks, I don't think I'd ever own one without.

(Frankly, I think Glock would be wise to pay Tom for the rights to include his design on their guns.)

[HeavyDuty]

Well, excuse my lack of correct terminology but I think it’s pretty well known that I’m referring to the little mechanical device on the trigger that makes it “safe” by requiring it gets depressed properly to allow the trigger to move.


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Take it down a notch, maybe?

[blues]

Take it down a notch, maybe?

He's "triggered". ;)

[corneileous]

Take it down a notch, maybe?

Take what down a notch? Sorry if what I said appears to have rubbed you the wrong way but you’re knit-picking over a word. Everyone else in the discussion knows what I’m talking about.

I appreciate you’re other input...


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[corneileous]

He's "triggered". ;)

No sir....[emoji41]

So sorry I dared call a trigger with a safety mechanism on it a “trigger safety”. [emoji20]


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[blues]

No sir....[emoji41]

So sorry I dared call a trigger with a safety mechanism on it a “trigger safety”. [emoji20]


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C'mon, dude. You Okies are made of stouter stuff than that. Laugh with the rest of us and roll with the punches.

You'll get the info you need if you just play along nicely.

Promise.

[Cypher]

https://i.postimg.cc/vmZ0jWM6/FB-IMG-1515897730682.jpg (https://postimg.cc/YvTNLLvp)

[corneileous]

C'mon, dude. You Okies are made of stouter stuff than that. Laugh with the rest of us and roll with the punches.

You'll get the info you need if you just play along nicely.

Promise.

I have gotten some really good advice but I guess that’s just don’t handle knit-picking real well...[emoji846]


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[Darth_Uno]

Weeeeell, Glock calls it a trigger safety.

We knew what you meant though. Just for fun, call a magazine a "clip" and see what happens.

42720

[BehindBlueI's]

Your basic premise is factually incorrect.

Tab safeties on triggers like Glocks, modern bolt Rifles etc are not “trigger safeties”. They are inertia / drop safeties.

https://us.glock.com/-/media/global/us/old/us-site/212-safe-action/safeaction-famousfour-sketch4.jpg?la=en

[corneileous]

Weeeeell, Glock calls it a trigger safety.

42720

I noticed that, and I thought about pointing that out but uh, I am new here, and... I didn’t want to get my hand slapped. Lol. Again....

We knew what you meant though. Just for fun, call a magazine a "clip" and see what happens.

I hate when people do that....lol. It’s like when they call a water heater, a hot water heater. Lol.


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[Clusterfrack]

You asked how to feel comfortable carrying a Glock type pistol. The answer is training and practice. Holstering a loaded handgun safely requires deliberate focus and care. If you disrespect the process, it’s dangerous regardless of whether the gun has a safety.

[HeavyDuty]

Take what down a notch? Sorry if what I said appears to have rubbed you the wrong way but you’re knit-picking over a word. Everyone else in the discussion knows what I’m talking about.

I appreciate you’re other input...


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You are aware I saw your first response?

I’m out, no time for internet snowflakes that think they are badasses. I’d love to see a forum plugin that flushed people down the memory hole once they hit a certain number of ignore list entries.

[corneileous]

You asked how to feel comfortable carrying a Glock type pistol. The answer is training and practice. Holstering a loaded handgun safely requires deliberate focus and care. If you disrespect the process, it’s dangerous regardless of whether the gun has a safety.

True, and I fully respect that but the fact still remains that some pistols require a whole lot more and are a lot easier to have a very painful oops moment.


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[GardoneVT]

You’d think the negligent discharge was patented by Glock ,for all the posts one may see on the matter. Fact is being safe with a firearm is a matter of training and mindset, not trigger configuration.

[corneileous]

You are aware I saw your first response?

Here, or somewhere else??


I’m out, no time for internet snowflakes that think they are badasses. I’d love to see a forum plugin that flushed people down the memory hole once they hit a certain number of ignore list entries.

But can’t you just let it go? You weren’t even the one who made the comment in the first place. That was somebody else. They don’t even appear to be bent out of shape over it at all like you seem to be yet you decided to take it upon yourself to start shaking my tree. Lol.

But don’t call me a snowflake just because I don’t appreciate being corrected over something stupid. Especially when two people come in here and pretty much backed up what I said about some manufacturers calling their safety triggers “trigger-safeties”...lol.

Yet you still butted in with your totally unnecessary post. Who’s the snowflake again??

But go right ahead and put me on ignore. I really don’t care. Seeing how you seem to treat some people makes me wonder how many people got you on ignore. [emoji41]



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[HCM]

https://us.glock.com/-/media/global/us/old/us-site/212-safe-action/safeaction-famousfour-sketch4.jpg?la=en

I don’t care what a bunch of English as a second language foreigners call it, it’s function is as an inertia drop safety.

That terminology only encourages the “Glocks r stopid cuz they gots the safety on the trigger” booger eaters.

[JHC]

Weeeeell, Glock calls it a trigger safety.

We knew what you meant though. Just for fun, call a magazine a "clip" and see what happens.

42720

I know right? I gotsta remember this trigger thingy term for the future! ;)

[blues]

I don’t care what a bunch of English as a second language foreigners call it, it’s function is as an inertia drop safety.

That terminology only encourages the “Glocks r stopid cuz they gots the safety on the trigger” booger eaters.

First of all, the proper technical term is "thingamabob".

[JHC]

I don’t care what a bunch of English as a second language foreigners call it, it’s function is as an inertia drop safety.

That terminology only encourages the “Glocks r stopid cuz they gots the safety on the trigger” booger eaters.

Hack during a class: "Everything the Lugerheads know about pistol shooting they learned from shooting people in a ditch!" True story.

[blues]

Hack during a class: "Everything the Lugerheads know about pistol shooting they learned from shooting people in a ditch!" True story.

That's friggin' priceless.

[JSGlock34]

One of ToddG's first posts on pistol-training.com (http://pistol-training.com)...still relevant.

Actions in action (http://pistol-training.com/archives/31)
25-Sep-07 – 09:33 by ToddG
One day a hundred or so years ago, a man built the first semiautomatic pistol. It was an ingenious thing, a gun that could load itself and fire many rounds from a single magazine. He made it so that one could have a short and light trigger which makes it easy to hit what one aims at.

Then someone said, whoa brother, something might touch the trigger when it’s not supposed to and fire the gun accidentally, for I cannot be bothered to learn the manual of arms. So the manual safety was created, so that there was a way to prevent one from using the short and light trigger except when absolutely intended.

Then someone said, whoa brother, sometimes I forget to take the safety off and I cannot fire my gun, for I cannot be bothered to learn the manual of arms. So the double action pistol was created, so that one could fire one’s pistol without dealing with a pesky safety while still having a reasonably hard time of making loud noises unintentionally.

Then someone said, whoa brother, it is hard to learn two different trigger pulls and often I forget to decock my pistol before holstering, for I cannot be bothered to learn the manual of arms. So the double action only was created, so that one could enjoy the safety of a long heavy trigger pull every time and thus avoid ventilating one’s own leg.

Then someone said, whoa brother, your trigger pull is too long and too heavy and I cannot hit anything I shoot at, for I cannot be bothered to learn the manual of arms. So the striker-fired pistol was created, so that one could have a short and light trigger which makes it easy to hit what one aims at.

Then someone said, whoa brother, something might touch the trigger when it’s not supposed to and fire the gun accidentally …

I've owned, carried, trained with, and competed with SAO, TDA, and SFA firearms. They're all good. They're all bad. I have developed some preferences over the years, but ultimately I am comfortable and proficient with all of these action types. Learning the nuances is part of the journey.

[HCM]

Hack during a class: "Everything the Lugerheads know about pistol shooting they learned from shooting people in a ditch!" True story.

Plus the Euros are all degenerates and perverts. They covet any warm flesh.

[Darth_Uno]

True, and I fully respect that but the fact still remains that some pistols require a whole lot more and are a lot easier to have a very painful oops moment.


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I wouldn't say a whole lot more. Just because you have a thumb/trigger/manual safety, I still wouldn't recommend jamming your gun into your holster without looking.

One internet thread isn't going to change your mind anyway. If you feel better with a manual safety, just admit it and use a gun that has one. Nobody really cares. Unless it's an XD.

[JHC]

Plus the Euros are all degenerates and perverts. They covet any warm flesh.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aniEVV8LtIc

[BehindBlueI's]

First of all, the proper technical term is "thingamabob".

I wonder if now is a good time I normally just call it the "little trigger dicky".

And why is PF so fucking irritable at the moment? It's not winter, go outside.

[BehindBlueI's]

That terminology only encourages the “Glocks r stopid cuz they gots the safety on the trigger” booger eaters.

Meh. Whenever I hear someone say "you don't put the brakes on the gas pedal" type shit, I just explain that the trigger dicky moves on a different plane and thus the force from being dropped can't simultaneously depress the trigger dicky and the trigger so no interial discharges. These days I get to add 'unlike the "pre-voluntary recall" P320, which lacks a trigger dicky' statement to the spiel.

[corneileous]

One internet thread isn't going to change your mind anyway. If you feel better with a manual safety, just admit it and use a gun that has one. Nobody really cares.

This one’s done quite a bit of good. Well, there for a while....lol.

And it’s not that I totally feel better with a manual safety, it’s just that on certain guns, I fell better with them on those.



Unless it's an XD.

You mean as in a Springfield XD?


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[Cypher]

Unless it's an XD.

Here comes a whole other shit show

[Cypher]

This one’s done quite a bit of good. Well, there for a while

I'm going to offer the same advice people offer for carrying with a round in the chamber or carrying a 1911 cocked and locked.

Take an UNLOADED Glock, cock it and carry it around your home in a holster and see how many times the striker falls with out you pulling the trigger.

FWIW according to Nephrology's last survey 85% of members here carry some variation of 9mm Glock

[blues]

I wonder if now is a good time I normally just call it the "little trigger dicky".

And why is PF so fucking irritable at the moment? It's not winter, go outside.

Just don't call it the little man in the boat.

[Darth_Uno]

You mean as in a Springfield XD?



I do, yes.

It's like carrying on with an ugly girl. It's not wrong but...maybe don't tell everybody, and you could probably do better.

[AKDoug]

I wonder if now is a good time I normally just call it the "little trigger dicky".

And why is PF so fucking irritable at the moment? It's not winter, go outside. Raining and 48 degrees makes me irritable. I cashed in a day off for this shit weather, but oh well. I just cured it with my wife's method of curing the blues.. going shopping.. so I sat here on my ass and ordered SCD (Gadget) thanks to this thread.

[AKDoug]

Here comes a whole other shit show


I do, yes.

It's like carrying on with an ugly girl. It's not wrong but...maybe don't tell everybody, and you could probably do better.

At least it has a grip safety to deal with that fully cocked striker :rolleyes:

[Darth_Uno]

At least it has a grip safety to deal with that fully cocked striker :rolleyes:

If you didn't know (and I don't know why you would because nobody here gives a crap about XD's) you can get the 4" .45 with a thumb safety.

TBH I briefly owned a no-thumb-safety 4" .45 XDm and really liked it.

[JAH 3rd]

Just curious of advice there is to be given about overcoming being uncomfortable with a gun that only relies on a trigger safety.

I’ve just never cared for them. Nothing against Glocks really, I just never was interested in one because of all the horror stories that usually come with these types of pistols. The only pistol I have in my arsenal that is even close to one of these is my little EDC Ruger LC9S that has a safety. At one point before I bought it, I even considered the “Pro” version of this pistol but, wasn’t happy with the lack of a slide safety on it so that’s why I bought what I bought.

Just curious if there’s anyway to overcome that.

Thanks.


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My two cents worth of advice. What features do you want on a pistol? It sounds like a thumb safety is high on that feature list. What caliber? Size?.....full-size, compact, or subcompact. When and how will it be carried? My point simply is buy a firearm you are comfortable with. Then practice shooting, reloading, and holstering that firearm. When you practice holstering, use an unloaded firearm. As people, we all make mistakes and that includes handling a firearm. I see a thumb safety as a layer of safety in case we do make a mistake when using a firearm. And the use of a thumb safety is not an excuse for sloppy gun handling. It is great seeking input from others, but ultimately it is you decision.

[AKDoug]

If you didn't know (and I don't know why you would because nobody here gives a crap about XD's) you can get the 4" .45 with a thumb safety.

TBH I briefly owned a no-thumb-safety 4" .45 XDm and really liked it.

I was trying to be funny.. hence the roll eyes emoji. :D Anyhoo.. I have a .40XDm that I left to go to the Glock 19. Not because I had a single issue, just because it was too big and I couldn't handle the "uncool" factor. It did make it through 10K rounds with no issue and three RedBack One classes (much to Jason's chagrin), one Frank Proctor class, and 2000+ rounds without being cleaned. And I own an XD-S .45ACP that my wife bought me for my 45th birthday (so I have to keep it) it's heavy for what it is and not any more comfortable to carry than my G19.. Both the Springfield products are my "office" guns at work.

Now back to my rainy day whining....

[JAD]

? Sorry if what I said appears to have rubbed you the wrong way but you’re knit-picking over a word.

Nit picking.

[corneileous]

My two cents worth of advice. What features do you want on a pistol? It sounds like a thumb safety is high on that feature list. What caliber? Size?.....full-size, compact, or subcompact. When and how will it be carried? My point simply is buy a firearm you are comfortable with. Then practice shooting, reloading, and holstering that firearm. When you practice holstering, use an unloaded firearm. As people, we all make mistakes and that includes handling a firearm. I see a thumb safety as a layer of safety in case we do make a mistake when using a firearm. And the use of a thumb safety is not an excuse for sloppy gun handling. It is great seeking input from others, but ultimately it is you decision.

Actually, if a Beretta Storm PX4 SC converted to a type G in either 40 or 9mm doesn’t work out due to its thickness and it’s almost the same weight as it’s bigger brothers, probably a single stack hammer fired pistol that’s either like the storms, or I guess maybe even a revolver, I don’t know. I prefer a semi because of the round capacity but I guess primarily something without a slide mounted safety but not only a..... “trigger safety”....


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[corneileous]

I do, yes.

It's like carrying on with an ugly girl. It's not wrong but...maybe don't tell everybody, and you could probably do better.

My mom had a really nice full-size Springfield XD in 45 that she got for cheap but she ended up selling it because it was just too much for her to shoot and rack the slide.

Funny thing is- years later when I bought my Beretta Storm 45, it shoots way better than that Springfield ever dreamed of shooting. Maybe it’s their revolving barrel that accounts for that.


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[backtrail540]

One of ToddG's first posts on pistol-training.com (http://pistol-training.com)...still relevant.

Actions in action (http://pistol-training.com/archives/31)
25-Sep-07 – 09:33 by ToddG
One day a hundred or so years ago, a man built the first semiautomatic pistol. It was an ingenious thing, a gun that could load itself and fire many rounds from a single magazine. He made it so that one could have a short and light trigger which makes it easy to hit what one aims at.

Then someone said, whoa brother, something might touch the trigger when it’s not supposed to and fire the gun accidentally, for I cannot be bothered to learn the manual of arms. So the manual safety was created, so that there was a way to prevent one from using the short and light trigger except when absolutely intended.

Then someone said, whoa brother, sometimes I forget to take the safety off and I cannot fire my gun, for I cannot be bothered to learn the manual of arms. So the double action pistol was created, so that one could fire one’s pistol without dealing with a pesky safety while still having a reasonably hard time of making loud noises unintentionally.

Then someone said, whoa brother, it is hard to learn two different trigger pulls and often I forget to decock my pistol before holstering, for I cannot be bothered to learn the manual of arms. So the double action only was created, so that one could enjoy the safety of a long heavy trigger pull every time and thus avoid ventilating one’s own leg.

Then someone said, whoa brother, your trigger pull is too long and too heavy and I cannot hit anything I shoot at, for I cannot be bothered to learn the manual of arms. So the striker-fired pistol was created, so that one could have a short and light trigger which makes it easy to hit what one aims at.

Then someone said, whoa brother, something might touch the trigger when it’s not supposed to and fire the gun accidentally …

I've owned, carried, trained with, and competed with SAO, TDA, and SFA firearms. They're all good. They're all bad. I have developed some preferences over the years, but ultimately I am comfortable and proficient with all of these action types. Learning the nuances is part of the journey.

Thanks for that. I always love rereading old TLG. Good for the soul.

[corneileous]

Nit picking.

Yeah, that...

Gotta love Siri and her auto correct.


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[JSGlock34]

Actually, if a Beretta Storm PX4 SC converted to a type G in either 40 or 9mm doesn’t work out due to its thickness and it’s almost the same weight as it’s bigger brothers, probably a single stack hammer fired pistol that’s either like the storms, or I guess maybe even a revolver, I don’t know. I prefer a semi because of the round capacity but I guess primarily something without a slide mounted safety but not only a..... “trigger safety”....

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DAO pistols (like the discontinued Beretta 92D) or their cousins such as the HK LEM have much to recommend for them as far as safety is concerned. There is, however, a performance trade off. Whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze can only be determined by the operator.

Since you are a PX4 fan, perhaps you should consider a PX4 Type C.

[Brazos Dan]

Just curious of advice there is to be given about overcoming being uncomfortable with a gun that only relies on a trigger safety.

I’ve just never cared for them. Nothing against Glocks really, I just never was interested in one because of all the horror stories that usually come with these types of pistols. The only pistol I have in my arsenal that is even close to one of these is my little EDC Ruger LC9S that has a safety. At one point before I bought it, I even considered the “Pro” version of this pistol but, wasn’t happy with the lack of a slide safety on it so that’s why I bought what I bought.

Just curious if there’s anyway to overcome that.

Thanks.


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Best NOT get comfortable with a striker with no safety.
The little tit on the Glock trigger does nothing. Accidentally pull the trigger and the tit goes with it. Their marketing hype reads like the little tit prevents the pistol from firing itself!

I own an HK Vp9, which I much prefer to the Glock, but they both have the "tit" and I'll NEVER feel "comfortable" with either.

I prefer my P30 with the safety. I can load, unload and rack the slide with the safety on, then snap the safety off after holstering for carry. At that point it is as "safe" as a holstered double action revolver.

Carrying a striker-fire w/o a safety is like handling and carrying a 1911 loaded, hammer back and safety off.

[BehindBlueI's]

The little tit on the Glock trigger does nothing. Accidentally pull the trigger and the tit goes with it. Their marketing hype reads like the little tit prevents the pistol from firing itself!

That's exactly what it does. It's not designed to stop you from pulling the trigger, it's designed to stop inertia from pulling the trigger if you drop it.

[Greg]

Posting this since thread is going/is already full

42727

Plus I want to trigger #KetoFagz (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=KetoFagz)

[CCT125US]

That's exactly what it does. It's not designed to stop you from pulling the trigger, it's designed to stop inertia from pulling the trigger if you drop it.

I really wish more people understood that.

At a LGS I overheard a customer state the trigger safety doesn't work, because it goes off everytime....

[GardoneVT]

Carrying a striker-fire w/o a safety is like handling and carrying a 1911 loaded, hammer back and safety off.

This is not so. Carrying ANY gun safely is 100% dependent on the user. A firearms trigger system has no bearing on the users safety level.

[corneileous]

DAO pistols (like the discontinued Beretta 92D) or their cousins such as the HK LEM have much to recommend for them as far as safety is concerned. There is, however, a performance trade off. Whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze can only be determined by the operator.

Since you are a PX4 fan, perhaps you should consider a PX4 Type C.

So when you talk about the performance trade off, are you talking about the first DA pull like on my type G Storms?

But if I’m understanding the type C correctly- I had to watch a YouTube video to better understand it because the google searched article I found was practically useless but, isn’t the only difference between a C and the D is that the D is the long DA pull every shot like the first shot of an F and a G, and the C is pretty much a half-cocked- every shot like the second and on shots of a F/G storm?

But how exactly is a C safe if it starts off from half-cock position? I realize it’s not totally like one of my Storms that’s fully cocked back but how much less of a pull and how much less of a poundage-pull is the C?


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[Wendell]

Just curious of advice there is to be given about overcoming being uncomfortable with a gun that only relies on a trigger safety. I’ve just never cared for them. Nothing against Glocks really, I just never was interested in one because of all the horror stories that usually come with these types of pistols...Just curious if there’s anyway to overcome that.

Have you ever disassembled a Glock and really looked at it? I mean, have you ever REALLY looked closely into a Glock, and studied how a Glock works?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uSr-hr88UE

[corneileous]

Have you ever disassembled a Glock and really looked at it? I mean, have you ever REALLY looked closely into a Glock, and studied how a Glock works?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uSr-hr88UE

No, I haven’t. I don’t own a Glock and I only know of two people that have them.

But instead of watching a video that I really don’t think will show me anything, what’s the difference between how a Glock “trigger safety” works and anything else that has one? Or better yet, the Ruger LC9S “trigger safety”...


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[JSGlock34]

So when you talk about the performance trade off, are you talking about the first DA pull like on my type G Storms?

But if I’m understanding the type C correctly- I had to watch a YouTube video to better understand it because the google searched article I found was practically useless but, isn’t the only difference between a C and the D is that the D is the long DA pull every shot like the first shot of an F and a G, and the C is pretty much a half-cocked- every shot like the second and on shots of a F/G storm?

But how exactly is a C safe if it starts off from half-cock position? I realize it’s not totally like one of my Storms that’s fully cocked back but how much less of a pull and how much less of a poundage-pull is the C?

With the Type C you essentially have a constant trigger pull. The hammer is partially cocked; the trigger pull weight (and perhaps more importantly, travel distance) will more closely resemble your FS/G model DA pull for every shot. The hammer is never fully cocked.

In my mind, the safety advantage of a Type C (or any DAO/LEM action) over a traditional DA/SA (i.e. FS or G) model is that the user does not have to remember to decock the pistol prior to holstering. There is one less control for the user to operate (no need for a decocker or hammer drop safety as there is nothing to decock) resulting in a simpler manual of arms to master. Arguably the greatest potential for a mishap with a DA/SA pistol is after the pistol has been fired and prior to holstering. If the user fails to decock the handgun, all that is mechanically preventing discharge is the short and light SA trigger press (quite possibly lighter and shorter than many of the striker-fired trigger pulls that have been maligned in this thread).

As far as the performance trade-off, a heavier trigger for every shot is a heavier trigger for every shot. A heavier trigger is harder to shoot accidentally; it is also harder to shoot as fast and accurately as a lighter trigger. Again, what are the user's priorities?

Much of this comes down to training. A DA/SA pistol, regardless of whether it is F or G type, is not inherently safer than a striker-fired design unless the user properly applies the safety device. I think a DA/SA pistol offers a great deal to the knowledgeable user willing to invest the time but it has drawbacks too. As I said earlier when I quoted Todd's parable on action types, they're all good, and they're all bad. Everything is a compromise.

[Totem Polar]

Just don't call it the little man in the boat.

For sure that will get men killed in the streetz: not being able to find the trigger when they need to...

[corneileous]

[no-one-cares]Thanks to Rob @mentioning/tagging me in this thread (that has gone, predictably, full potato), I’ve disabled notifications on mentions — but only because I can’t completely disable the ability to tag/mention me.[/no-one-cares]

Later.

I guess thanks for your input...[emoji849]


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[Le Français]

Later.

I guess thanks for your input...[emoji849]


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Tom Jones has done more good for this forum than you can likely fathom, and his positive influence on it will (hopefully) endure long after your attempts to besmirch it with inane BS are utterly spent.

[Cory]

Later.

I guess thanks for your input...[emoji849]

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I think the person who helmed this forum for years, designed an ingenious gadget to improve a striker fired gun safety, then chimed in to a thread you created about this topic could be addressed with a bit less condescension and disdain.

He literally took the time to explain how his product worked and how it improved safety. You have a thread about your "feelings" and being safe with a safetyless gun. And you don't feel he has added to this discussion thread?

Want to "feel" confident? Learn how they function. Maybe watch a video someone added to this thread instead of ignoring the offered knowledge (kind of a pattern huh?). Get some training on how to properly use the manual of arms. Practice the manual of arms in dryfire. Practice in live fire.

This shit isn't a secret. Everyone on this board knows how to learn, train, and practice. And everyone is happy to help those who ask for help. Nearly everyone (with at least one glaring exception) is happy for the help and willing to change what they're doing to learn, train, and practice. This is about pistol improvement. As in trying to get better.

This community's discourse is of a higher quality. If you're going to participate please be genuinely interested in gaining knowledge, and please don't insult the members here (all of whom my better) when they expend effort to help you. Actions like that are responsible (in my opinion) for the lack of SME and industry leaders participation over the last few years.

-Cory

[corneileous]

Tom Jones has done more good for this forum than you can likely fathom, and his positive influence on it will (hopefully) endure long after your attempts to besmirch it with inane BS are utterly spent.

“My attempts to besmirch it”?? Yeah, I had to google it to see what the heck you were talking about but uh, that’s not it at all. I’m glad for his input but I’m not gonna lie to ya, I figured his exit style of the thread was a little unnecessary. I didn’t do nothin to him. Matter of fact I’m glad he contributed why he did so, I’m still a little bit befuddled about what that was all about.


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[Rex G]

The little tit on the Glock trigger does nothing. Accidentally pull the trigger and the tit goes with it. Their marketing hype reads like the little tit prevents the pistol from firing itself!

...

Carrying a striker-fire w/o a safety is like handling and carrying a 1911 loaded, hammer back and safety off.

I will join the chorus saying that yes, indeed, the “tit” does keep the Glock from firing itself, due to the inertia of the trigger, in the event of a fall onto the rear of the weapon. See the you-tubes for examples of how the pre-recall P320 pistols were discharging upon hitting the floor; the Glocks’ “tits” are helping to prevent that. (The Glocks’ strikers not being fully-cocked also contributes to the level of safety.)

As for carrying a 1911 cocked and the thumb lever off-safe, well, one of my colleagues discreetly did just that, for a number of years, without putting holes into anything unintended. The 1911 has a grip safety to act as a drop-safety, and reholstering with the thumb on the hammer means that the grip safety is in the safe position, while the hammer is restrained, so, I cannot dispute that he seemed safe enough. Plus, our Safariland duty holsters’ retention straps passed across the back of the slide, in the path of the hammer, offering an additional level of safety. I will add that this colleague was, and is, quite switched-on, and fanatically muzzle-aware and trigger-finger-aware.

To be clear, I am not recommending that anyone adopt “Condition Zero” carry, for a 1911 carry gun.

Notably, some of my less-switched-on former colleagues have managed to AD/ND long-stroke double action revolving and auto pistols. Sigh.

As for slide-mounted safety levers, I owned a couple of S&W 3913 pistols, in the early/middle Nineties, and recently bought a well-preserved, railed 3913 TSW, so have been getting re-acquainted with DA/SA, with a pistol that is on-safe when its “dingus is down.” I have found that it fits a couple of my SIG P229 leather holsters well enough, so it may actually see some carry time. I recently scored a slimmed-down slide-latch, on evil bay, perhaps from a parted-out 3953, but it looks new, so perhaps was part of someone’s spares stash. I have been accumulating other spare parts and springs, too. This could be a nice fun gun, or may become my “speed loader” when toting a revolver as “primary.” ;)

[blues]

“My attempts to besmirch it”?? Yeah, I had to google it to see what the heck you were talking about but uh, that’s not it at all. I’m glad for his input but I’m not gonna lie to ya, I figured his exit style of the thread was a little unnecessary. I didn’t do nothin to him. Matter of fact I’m glad he contributed why he did so, I’m still a little bit befuddled about what that was all about.


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Maybe I can help explain...

Tom has a lot of patience. This has been proven over and over again on this forum over a period of years.

That said, he doesn't suffer fools gladly.

And with that, I think I'll take advantage of the ignore button.

[JSGlock34]

42732

[corneileous]

I think the person who helmed this forum for years, designed an ingenious gadget to improve a striker fired gun safety, then chimed in to a thread you created about this topic could be addressed with a bit less condescension and disdain.
What condescension? I was just like, ok. If you’re gonna be done with a thread, is it really necessary to exit like that? I guess it is. Excuse me for not knowing that.


He literally took the time to explain how his product worked and how it improved safety. You have a thread about your "feelings" and being safe with a safetyless gun. And you don't feel he has added to this discussion thread?
Where did I say I didn’t think he contributed?? Sounds to me like you’re just a little bit misunderstood.


Want to "feel" confident? Learn how they function. Maybe watch a video someone added to this thread instead of ignoring the offered knowledge (kind of a pattern huh?). Get some training on how to properly use the manual of arms. Practice the manual of arms in dryfire. Practice in live fire.
I’ve watched a ton of videos. If this is in reference to the “how the Glock works” video, I wasn’t ignoring it or even dismissing it because I don’t know what I’m looking for.


This shit isn't a secret. Everyone on this board knows how to learn, train, and practice. And everyone is happy to help those who ask for help. Nearly everyone (with at least one glaring exception) is happy for the help and willing to change what they're doing to learn, train, and practice. This is about pistol improvement. As in trying to get better.

That’s why I’m here as well. I’m really not here to start trouble but, I’m not gonna just sit in my hands when someone says whatever they want just because they’ve been here a while and I haven’t.

This community's discourse is of a higher quality. If you're going to participate please be genuinely interested in gaining knowledge, and please don't insult the members here (all of whom my better) when they expend effort to help you. Actions like that are responsible (in my opinion) for the lack of SME and industry leaders participation over the last few years.

-Cory

Ain’t insulting anybody.

Again- if my response to Tom is what you’re referring to, I was just reacting to his exit. lol. Nothing more.


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[Totem Polar]

That’s why I’m here as well. I’m really not here to start trouble but, I’m not gonna just sit in my hands when someone says whatever they want just because they’ve been here a while and I haven’t.



I’d like to respond to this, and offer some advice regarding this forum, not from any great industry insider perspective (because I’m a musician in real life, not a gun SME), but rather, coming from a guy who was once a newbie here, and who has inadvertently stepped on his own dick a few times here.

I think you’ll come to enjoy this place and get a lot more out of it if you actually do sit on your hands for a bit, at least until you’ve figured out who’s who. This place isn’t reddit. When you interact with someone here, you could very well be getting input from someone who's stacked a bunch of bodies in defense of our country. Or they could be career cops with lethal UoF experience. Or the inventor of a popular firearms accessory, or the owner of a top-tier training school, top-tier holster company, top-tier BJJ gym, top-tier custom gun-smithy, NRA-ILA staff... I even watched one new member discussing courtroom outcomes with the top expert witness in the business (very well-known), only to realize who he was talking to further down thread.

Or, you might be talking to a schoolteacher. Or a chef. Point is, until you sort it out, you don’t know. There are a lot of *extremely* experienced insiders here. Whatever question you have, *somebody* here will know the answer.

Those answers will be easier to access without a flattened-out dick getting in the way.
JMO. And welcome to P-F, seriously. Best accessible gun forum on the ‘net.

[Cypher]

Nit picking.

I see what you did there.

[corneileous]

I think you’ll come to enjoy this place and get a lot more out of it if you actually do sit on your hands for a bit, at least until you’ve figured out who’s who. This place isn’t reddit. When you interact with someone here, you could very well be getting input from someone who's stacked a bunch of bodies in defense of our country. Or they could be career cops with lethal UoF experience. Or the inventor of a popular firearms accessory, or the owner of a top-tier training school, top-tier holster company, top-tier BJJ gym, top-tier custom gun-smithy, NRA-ILA staff... I even watched one new member discussing courtroom outcomes with the top expert witness in the business (very well-known), only to realize who he was talking to further down thread.

Or, you might be talking to a schoolteacher. Or a chef. Point is, until you sort it out, you don’t know. There are a lot of *extremely* experienced insiders here. Whatever question you have, *somebody* here will know the answer.

Those answers will be easier to access without a flattened-out dick getting in the way.
JMO. And welcome to P-F, seriously. Best accessible gun forum on the ‘net.

Believe me, I try but when there’s aggressive comments like this...

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?38601-Feeling-safe-with-pistols-that-just-have-trigger-safeties-and-not-slide-safeties&p=931826#post931826

....and especially like this one....

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?38601-Feeling-safe-with-pistols-that-just-have-trigger-safeties-and-not-slide-safeties&p=931672#post931672


....I find it hard to keep quiet. I don’t care who you are but you don’t talk to people like that. You agree with that kind of behavior?

This.... this was just totally unnecessary and throwing gas on the fire.

I guess I’m not the only one stepping on one’s dick.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?38601-Feeling-safe-with-pistols-that-just-have-trigger-safeties-and-not-slide-safeties&p=931773#post931773







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[Cypher]

https://i.postimg.cc/2yTgLpV4/FB-IMG-1483675212997.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Cypher]

That’s why I’m here as well. I’m really not here to start trouble but, I’m not gonna just sit in my hands when someone says whatever they want just because they’ve been here a while and I haven’t.

Seriously, maybe wait 24 hours before responding to constructive criticism

[Ed L]

This whole thread reminded me of the very first Glock I owned, a gen 1 Glock 17 in the late 1980s.

I lived in NY and took a lawyer friend shooting at an outdoor range in Calverton that was quite a ways out on the Island. I was demonstrating how the safety in the middle of the trigger worked with the gun unloaded. I pointed the gun downrange, pulled on the edge of the trigger without engaging the safety in the middle, only to have the gun go click. At that point I realized that I had never dryfired the gun that way before and that the gun had a defective safety. My lawyer friend made a comment that if I accidentally shot myself in the leg with it I would have a great lawsuit. I assumed that was meant as a joke, but thinking about the implications of it bothers me.

I sent the gun off to Glock to be fixed. I think I sold the gun in the early 1990s, but have since bought and own several.

This is just stupid reminiscing. Glocks and similar striker fired guns are fine. I own a bunch of different types that employ that type of trigger safety including H&K VP9s. But I doubt that my post will reassure the originator of this thread.

[Cypher]

I was dry firing my glock once and I decided to do an experiment. I pushed down on that little dingus to try to see if I could take it all the way off without actually pulling the trigger I wish I had a video of it because the INSTANT that thing disengaged the trigger pulled.

[10mmfanboy]

This is the dumbest thread evs, but quite entertaining when you are bored. I'll just add this, I think there are an awful lot of people out there carrying around striker fired pistols unloaded than I ever thought before. Last week when I was in my LGS I heard two different people ask to see a glock. When they asked where the safety was and the dealer explained a little how the glock works, they both responded the same way. So you just don't carry a round in the chamber?

That being said, I could care less what a person chooses to carry, as long as they carry and feel confident in their ability to use the weapon and are safe and responsible about it.

I think holster selection is key, there are a lot of crap holsters out today as well as really top notch ones. For me striker fired equals a good kydex holster, hammer fired I will carry in kydex or leather, even though I rarely use a leather holster anymore.

Lastly my thoughts on the matter is you also have to consider how many glocks are carried and sold around the world. You will always hear more about a ND with a glock than any other pistol just because of the sheer amount of glocks being used every day. If you look at it that way, the number of ND is actually very low. Some people just love to hate glock because it is a glock. Let's face it, when the glock came out it pretty much killed off every other handgun being used at the time. Whether or not it is based on merit or marketing, it is what it is.

[corneileous]

Seriously, maybe wait 24 hours before responding to constructive criticism

The remarks I mentioned in this post are hardly “constructive criticism”. (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?38601-Feeling-safe-with-pistols-that-just-have-trigger-safeties-and-not-slide-safeties&p=931871#post931871)


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[corneileous]

This whole thread reminded me of the very first Glock I owned, a gen 1 Glock 17 in the late 1980s.

I lived in NY and took a lawyer friend shooting at an outdoor range in Calverton that was quite a ways out on the Island. I was demonstrating how the safety in the middle of the trigger worked with the gun unloaded. I pointed the gun downrange, pulled on the edge of the trigger without engaging the safety in the middle, only to have the gun go click. At that point I realized that I had never dryfired the gun that way before and that the gun had a defective safety. My lawyer friend made a comment that if I accidentally shot myself in the leg with it I would have a great lawsuit. I assumed that was meant as a joke, but thinking about the implications of it bothers me.

I sent the gun off to Glock to be fixed. I think I sold the gun in the early 1990s, but have since bought and own several.

This is just stupid reminiscing. Glocks and similar striker fired guns are fine. I own a bunch of different types that employ that type of trigger safety including H&K VP9s. But I doubt that my post will reassure the originator of this thread.

It’s not that I’m afraid of them, it’s just that I don’t prefer them.


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[corneileous]

This is the dumbest thread evs, but quite entertaining when you are bored.
I appreciate that vote of confidence.... really do...[emoji849]


I'll just add this, I think there are an awful lot of people out there carrying around striker fired pistols unloaded than I ever thought before. Last week when I was in my LGS I heard two different people ask to see a glock. When they asked where the safety was and the dealer explained a little how the glock works, they both responded the same way. So you just don't carry a round in the chamber?

That being said, I could care less what a person chooses to carry, as long as they carry and feel confident in their ability to use the weapon and are safe and responsible about it.

I think holster selection is key, there are a lot of crap holsters out today as well as really top notch ones. For me striker fired equals a good kydex holster, hammer fired I will carry in kydex or leather, even though I rarely use a leather holster anymore.

Lastly my thoughts on the matter is you also have to consider how many glocks are carried and sold around the world. You will always hear more about a ND with a glock than any other pistol just because of the sheer amount of glocks being used every day. If you look at it that way, the number of ND is actually very low. Some people just love to hate glock because it is a glock. Let's face it, when the glock came out it pretty much killed off every other handgun being used at the time. Whether or not it is based on merit or marketing, it is what it is.

But yeah, that is true, there is a lot of these pistols out there so it would make sense to hear about a lot of issues with them.


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[Bucky]

That's exactly what it does. It's not designed to stop you from pulling the trigger, it's designed to stop inertia from pulling the trigger if you drop it.

Probably becomes more confusing due to Glock nomenclature, being as they call an entirely different part a “drop safety”.

Admittedly, long ago my original thought was it would prevent a discharge from an overly tight holster dragging against the sides of the trigger. If you think about it, it should prevent that as well. ;)

[Bucky]

Lastly my thoughts on the matter is you also have to consider how many glocks are carried and sold around the world. You will always hear more about a ND with a glock than any other pistol just because of the sheer amount of glocks being used every day. If you look at it that way, the number of ND is actually very low. Some people just love to hate glock because it is a glock. Let's face it, when the glock came out it pretty much killed off every other handgun being used at the time. Whether or not it is based on merit or marketing, it is what it is.

I wonder if the pulling the trigger to disassemble is a big contributor to the ND figures for Glock? Does anyone know if Glock was the first gun to require this? If not, at least the first mainstream gun.

I never had an issue with it, but 27 years of “if clear, hammer down, holster” meant that clearing any semi auto meant pulling the trigger. (I remember when you had to pull the trigger on a revolver too, but I didn’t bother with those pesky things :P).

[Cypher]

It’s not that I’m afraid of them, it’s just that I don’t prefer them.

You just answered your own question dude, go buy something else.

[corneileous]

You just answered your own question dude, go buy something else.

Dude? I’m not really looking to buy anything, I’m just asking questions. Using this forum for which it was intended.

And yes, I’ve never necessarily preferred Glocks and pistols like them but I could be convinced otherwise.


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[fixer]

I was gonna offer some insight into this concern. It is a valid concern and one that I've grappled with over the years.

But the thread went to shit faster than I could have imagined.

[Cory]

Dude? I’m not really looking to buy anything, I’m just asking questions. Using this forum for which it was intended.

And yes, I’ve never necessarily preferred Glocks and pistols like them but I could be convinced otherwise.


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So you genuinely want to learn, but started a thread where you ignore the solutions presented? Because this forum is just about talking? This forum is to help people get better. Not to ask questions for the sake of dismissing answers. Long discussions happen here, but not for the sake of long discussion.

Someone here used to say something like: This is not the level of discourse expected in a technical forum.

I'll say it differently: This is a dumpsterfire. I don't like you, and you offer no value here. Plenty here I don't like but they add value. Heck, even someone looking to learn adds value. You do not. You detract. No-Go.

Block.

[Hambo]

Maybe I can help explain...

Tom has a lot of patience. This has been proven over and over again on this forum over a period of years.

That said, he doesn't suffer fools gladly.

And with that, I think I'll take advantage of the ignore button.

I'll see your ignore member, and raise you an ignore thread. :cool:

[UniSol]

This is the dumbest thread evs, but quite entertaining when you are bored. I'll just add this, I think there are an awful lot of people out there carrying around striker fired pistols unloaded than I ever thought before. Last week when I was in my LGS I heard two different people ask to see a glock. When they asked where the safety was and the dealer explained a little how the glock works, they both responded the same way. So you just don't carry a round in the chamber?

I worked the counter for about 7 months at a high volume dealer...there are a lot of people that carry chamber empty. And believe it is a known FACT that that this is the only way it is done. Also a lot of people who think it works like this: "rack the slide, drop the mag, chamber=clear"......... A lot, lot, lot of severe stupid/ignorant out there.

[corneileous]

I was gonna offer some insight into this concern. It is a valid concern and one that I've grappled with over the years.

But the thread went to shit faster than I could have imagined.

That’s alright, I get it. I still got some great advice tho, just despite. But I guess Trooper224 and everyone else who commented on the same thing is right. If there’s so much out there for all of us when it comes to different types, why try to change what you like and what you prefer? I don’t have to like Glocks or other guns like them.


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[Cypher]

And yes, I’ve never necessarily preferred Glocks and pistols like them but I could be convinced otherwise.

I don't like Sig. Never have, very likely never will. If I was issued a Sig (like any security company in the world is going to lay out that kind of money) I could make it work but it's not a gun that I'm ever going to be interested in.

Consequently, it's highly unlikely that you will ever see me start a thread here asking people to convince me to buy a Sig.

I see this as a continuation of the behavior that you evidenced on USAcarry. Start a thread that you knew was going to start an argument and then claim that everybody responding to the thread is picking on you.

I'm not going to put you on ignore I'm going to sit back and watch you flame out. I'm guessing by the end of the week

[corneileous]

I worked the counter for about 7 months at a high volume dealer...there are a lot of people that carry chamber empty. And believe it is a known FACT that that this is the only way it is done. Also a lot of people who think it works like this: "rack the slide, drop the mag, chamber=clear"......... A lot, lot, lot of severe stupid/ignorant out there.

I’ve never got this either. It’s like saying you’ll have enough time to put your seatbelt on right before a crash.


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[Cypher]

Can we change the name of this thread to PFestivus and Just go with it?

[corneileous]

I don't like Sig. Never have, very likely never will. If I was issued a Sig (like any security company in the world is going to lay out that kind of money) I could make it work but it's not a gun that I'm ever going to be interested in.

Consequently, it's highly unlikely that you will ever see me start a thread here asking people to convince me to buy a Sig.

I see this as a continuation of the behavior that you evidenced on USAcarry. Start a thread that you knew was going to start an argument and then claim that everybody responding to the thread is picking on you.
Man, would you quit bringing up USAcarry?? I never intended for this thread to end up where it did.

I'm not going to put you on ignore I'm going to sit back and watch you flame out. I'm guessing by the end of the week
Put me on ignore. lol. I really don’t care what you do.



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[corneileous]

Can we change the name of this thread to PFestivus and Just go with it?

Comments like these don’t help man. Just sayin’.


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[Cypher]

Comments like these don’t help man. Just sayin’.

That was a totally unnecessary correction there dude

[BehindBlueI's]

I wonder if the pulling the trigger to disassemble is a big contributor to the ND figures for Glock?

Roughly 1/3 of unintended discharges resulting in injury or death were a result of reversing the clearing steps when I tracked them for my county.

[corneileous]

That was a totally unnecessary correction there dude

I never corrected you on anything. I just simply stated comments like your other one and this one don’t help matters and that you’re currently doing nothing to contribute except stir the pot.

And what what happened to you sitting back and waiting for me to flare out, or whatever it was you said? I see that really lasted long.


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[corneileous]

Roughly 1/3 of unintended discharges resulting in injury or death were a result of reversing the clearing steps when I tracked them for my county.

Huh.... I never would’ve guessed. I would’ve figured it would’ve been from holstering.


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[Hambo]

Huh.... I never would’ve guessed. I would’ve figured it would’ve been from holstering.


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If you quit posting for a while and started reading, you'd learn a lot more.

[BehindBlueI's]

Huh.... I never would’ve guessed. I would’ve figured it would’ve been from holstering.


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Off the range, admin handling is a much more frequent occurrence than holstering. Most unintended discharges that result in injury or death occur off the range. Holstering mishaps did occur, on occasion fatally, but were lower down the list. I am pretty sure I posted the results around here somewhere, probably 2017-ish or so. I don't have the spreadsheet in front of me, but I had nearly 90 incidents that came through my former office in one year alone.

[corneileous]

If you quit posting for a while and started reading, you'd learn a lot more.

LOL!!!

I’ve done a lot of reading (not just here) and that’s the very first time I’ve heard that. But telling you that won’t make a difference, will it?


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[corneileous]

Off the range, admin handling is a much more frequent occurrence than holstering. Most unintended discharges that result in injury or death occur off the range. Holstering mishaps did occur, on occasion fatally, but were lower down the list. I am pretty sure I posted the results around here somewhere, probably 2017-ish or so. I don't have the spreadsheet in front of me, but I had nearly 90 incidents that came through my former office in one year alone.

That’s pretty sad and, I never would’ve guessed. But hey, now that you mentioned it, how many times have people had an ND while cleaning or oiling?? I’ve heard that happening a lot.

I haven’t shot my Storms a whole lot ever since I recently converted them to type G’s but one of the things I found out was that I really needed to get used to it quick was like after loading a magazine in and racking the slide to chamber a round after cleaning it for example that I have to remember to hit the decocker to lower the hammer because since it’s never on safe anymore, racking the slide cocks the hammer.


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[BehindBlueI's]

That’s pretty sad and, I never would’ve guessed. But hey, now that you mentioned it, how many times have people had an ND while cleaning or oiling?? I’ve heard that happening a lot.

That's usually the reason they are clearing the pistol, or else to store it.

[LittleLebowski]

It’s run its course.