Open carry guy at farmer's market in Northern VA

[LittleLebowski]

As Tamara says, he's carrying at people.

Idiot.

https://www.fox5dc.com/news/open-carry-display-at-old-town-alexandria-farmers-market-triggers-outrage

42604

[Hambo]

Want to convince people of the need for an AWB? That's the way to do it. Fucking retards.

[mtnbkr]

He did that in Old Town Alexandria? That's not exactly friendly territory. It will be viewed negatively. Nobody will feel like guns are "normalized" for them.

Moron.

I swear it's as if the antis have started impersonating gun nuts (and I *am* a gun nut, so I get to use that term) and are doing this to elicit a negative reaction. I mean, we can't be *that* tone deaf, right?

Chris

[LittleLebowski]

Single point sling, check. Ridiculous high powered, probably Chinese scope paired with a fixed front sight, check. Jorts, check.

[corneileous]

I actually understand why someone would want to open carry a pistol but this... Ive never understood unless it’s just an act to piss off liberals or just to show the world you can. Makes no sense. Especially when the majority of the shootings we’ve had have started off with a weapon that looks just like that.


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[Radar Love]

I like that farmers market, hope this guy doesn't make a habit of this because Alexandria will figure out a way to ban guns from that space:

"Some have floated a plan to take the market, which the city administers, private and to rent the space from the city, which would allow the manager to ban guns."
https://www.washingtonian.com/2019/09/10/gun-rights-advocates-carried-military-style-rifles-through-the-old-town-farmers-market-this-weekend/

[RJ]

They have Beto and we have...these morons.

Geebus.


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[STI]

What’s the Cooper color for “ambivalently walking through an unknown crowd, up in my phone, with no backup”

[Zincwarrior]

As Tamara says, he's carrying at people.

Idiot.

https://www.fox5dc.com/news/open-carry-display-at-old-town-alexandria-farmers-market-triggers-outrage

42604


Sorry but, how is that guy still alive???
Walking in physically carrying, not slung? In Texas people are, shall we say antsy. I'd give good money he gets ventilated in the parking lot here now. This is not the time to be playing Darwin Award games because you might get Darwin award prizes.

[blues]

https://www.phrases.org.uk/images/albatross.jpg

[awp_101]

YOU.ARE.NOT.HELPING. (https://tinkertalksguns.wordpress.com/2019/09/11/you-are-not-helping/)

[Cypher]

Especially when the majority of the shootings we’ve had have started off with a weapon that looks just like that.

Actually they haven't

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

[wvincent]

The "I'm the NRA and I vote!" t-shirt really completes the picture.
Just educating the sheeple.

"Where next honey?"
"I dunno, maybe Chiptole to hook up with gang, or Starbucks?"

Should have worn his ear and eye pro, just to show how he practices his range safety,
You know, for educational purposes.

You know, I'm kind of starting to see where the anti's are coming from. Coming into a public space, with a large potential body count, with a fucking long arm, with your fucking hand on it.

Yeah, I'm starting to understand why an ever growing number of folks don't trust us.

[RevolverRob]

While I definitely think it's ridiculous and not helping. Look at the folks in the background of that photo. I see one, maybe two, people who seem to give a shit at all.

Which is kind of like the whole gun control debate in a snapshot. One side carrying at folks, one side 'caring' at folks, and most people thinking, "Look at these fucktards...Oh, is that fresh kale?"

[Kyle Reese]

Not all heroes wear capes, apparently.

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[corneileous]

Actually they haven't

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

Well I guess thanks and good for you for that unuseful and totally unnecessary correction but the fact still remains that rifles are still the most notable weapon of choice that seems to scare the most shit out of people. Read that in your article you brought up.


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[TGS]

For the Open Carry advocates on the forum:

How many people were "normalized" to guns that day?

[STI]

Well I guess thanks and good for you for that unuseful and totally unnecessary correction but the fact still remains that rifles are still the most notable weapon of choice that seems to scare the most shit out of people. Read that in your article you brought up.


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Never seen your handle before, but based on your join date, and your content and mainly tone in the last two posts you put here - this might not be the right corner of the internet for you. Fools aren’t suffered lightly here

[corneileous]

Never seen your handle before, but based on your join date, and your content and mainly tone in the last two posts you put here - this might not be the right corner of the internet for you. Fools aren’t suffered lightly here

The only fool I see is you, who’s acing like you’re hall monitor of the threads. How long I’ve been here is about as moot as your unnecessary post. Can’t we get back at the topic at hand, please? Thank you.


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[LittleLebowski]

Well I guess thanks and good for you for that unuseful and totally unnecessary correction but the fact still remains that rifles are still the most notable weapon of choice that seems to scare the most shit out of people. Read that in your article you brought up.



His correction was absolutely germane and relevant. Please dial it back.

[corneileous]

The "I'm the NRA and I vote!" t-shirt really completes the picture.
Just educating the sheeple.

"Where next honey?"
"I dunno, maybe Chiptole to hook up with gang, or Starbucks?"

Should have worn his ear and eye pro, just to show how he practices his range safety,
You know, for educational purposes.

You know, I'm kind of starting to see where the anti's are coming from. Coming into a public space, with a large potential body count, with a fucking long arm, with your fucking hand on it.

Yeah, I'm starting to understand why an ever growing number of folks don't trust us.

Yep, I can’t help but feel that way too. I don’t like thinking that expressing some of our rights might be causing us even more trouble from the gun haters but this doesn’t help our situation.


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[Grey]

Hes lucky that mother fucker wasnt shot.

Id be hauling ass and calling the cops if I saw that. That shit just doesnt happen in nova and people will literally freak the fuck out.

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[wvincent]

Hes lucky that mother fucker wasnt shot.

Id be hauling ass and calling the cops if I saw that. That shit just doesnt happen in nova and people will literally freak the fuck out.

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Hell, I'm in Central South Dakota, rural as f*ck, and I would have activated the family egress plan. And called LE.
I'm no shrinking violet, but carrying a long arm at me these day's does not make me smiley and warm.

[Zincwarrior]

Per the article it wasn't just one person but a group. That would cause less alarm I would think, but just as much "look at these idiots."

[WobblyPossum]

Per the article it wasn't just one person but a group. That would cause less alarm I would think, but just as much "look at these idiots."

I think you might be right. We have had numerous pairs of people go active killer (San Bernardino, Columbine, the draw Muhammad contest, one of the recent school shootings, and one that I think was in Nevada). I can’t think of any groups larger than that having started murdering folks stateside yet so it makes sense that people aren’t immediately going to condition red when a group of long gun open carriers arrives at an event.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I'd leave because:

1. They might be a big group of nuts
2. Someone might challenge them and they might respond irrationally. What if somebody just tried to get in their face or push one to see how tough they are?
3. The law could show up and that interaction could go wrong quickly.
4. A concealed carrier might just draw on them as recently happened.

I've had arguments with folks who think that such behavior will extinguish fear of guns.


Being a psychologist, well versed in learning theory - the postulate that continued exposure will reduce the fear of firearms is an interesting one. The idea that sheer exposure will do this might find some support from desensitization and extinction therapies used for disorders such as phobia.

However, the OC extinction folks miss a crucial point. In the therapeutic use, the noxious stimulus is presented in a manner that is controlled and clearly will produce no harm to the client.

That is not the case with OC (and especially with Modern Sporting Arm (ahem) folks who wander around). There is no guarantee that this OC user is safe. Thus, there is no reason to extinguish the fear. Also, the drumbeat of media portrayals of rampages and other gun crime, through observation and vicarious learning will continue to make the gun a noxious stimulus.

Simple extinction models sound nice don't have sophisticated take on the principles involved.

All in all, OC has been a net negative in the social context of gun usage. Being a theoretical right is correct but pragmatic application can be deleterious. That one can open carry in rural areas doesn't mean that it will be seen as positive in more populated areas without a strong gun culture.

That annoyed some OC folks.

[willie]

It's obvious that Dummy and the Fat Chick wanted attention. They fit within two categories seen here. One is the stupid and unaware, and the other is immature attention seekers. My small sample consists of lower socio-economic white people. Recently, I talked with an old guy who was open carrying a fine Colt .380 Auto from the early 20th Century. I convinced him to buy a smaller pistol and carry it in his pocket by explaining that his weapon was so valuable that some would knock him in the head to get it. He was working at my house.

I become dismayed and embarrassed when I see others carrying openly. The right is a valuable one that we should exercise only if there is a need. Otherwise we shoot ourselves in the foot. I preach to the choir.

[the Schwartz]

For the Open Carry advocates on the forum:

How many people were "normalized" to guns that day?

@triggered, are we? 🙄

Given the behavior of the folks around him and in the immediate area, it looks like quite a few folks there have been "normalized" to guns in their presence; no one seems to be freaking out from what can be seen in the image provided. Looks like they are going about their business instead of getting a case of the "vapors".

It's not the way that I'd OC (certainly not with a rifle and certainly not carried unslung like that) if I had chosen to do so, but some folks just have to make "a tacticool fashion statement". You can't fix "stupid", best to ignore these types or, if you sense trouble brewing....leave.

[the Schwartz]

Per the article it wasn't just one person but a group. That would cause less alarm I would think, but just as much "look at these idiots."

So if ''one'' engaged in OC is a threat, ''many'' engaged in the same behavior are not?

If I observe behavior that could be described as "alarming", then I'd just as soon have it be only one person rather than a large group.

From the looks of the picture provided in the article, it looks like most of the people surrounding the two people pictured have taken the latter position of "look at those idiots".

Faced with something like this (it is certainly not the way that I'd ever OC) and I sensed something truly wrong, I would leave first, then if that concerned contact local LE and get their input on it.

[wvincent]

@triggered, are we? 🙄

Given the behavior of the folks around him and in the immediate area, it looks like quite a few folks there have been "normalized" to guns in their presence; no one seems to be freaking out from what can be seen in the image provided. Looks like they are going about their business instead of getting a case of the "vapors".

It's not the way that I'd OC (certainly not with a rifle and certainly not carried unslung like that) if I had chosen to do so, but some folks just have to make "a tacticool fashion statement". You can't fix "stupid", best to ignore these types or, if you sense trouble brewing....leave.

Look, you would have to be living under a rock or sleeping in a van down by the river to not understand the current political climate concerning firearms right now. We are potentially facing sweeping, nationwide restrictions, up to a new AWB. So how does showing up in a public space, inhabited in large part by "normal earth people" help us? Answer: It doesn't. It just adds fuel to the anti's fire that people with firearms are irrational, unable to make good decisions, and in some cases, downright threatening.

You can go on and on with the bullshit of how people will accept it, maybe embrace it, maybe even come over to our side. But I hope that deep down inside, you understand that for the lie that it is. Fact is, most folks just want to live their lives and not be bothered, go to a farmers market with their children and not be accosted by the sight of some non-uniformed, non-LEO identifiable person "swanning" around with a long gun. It cause fear and concern, because they don't know you or your intentions. I don't blame them. It would concern me too.

If you want to express your rights, go get a permit, have a parade or a rally, advertise the event so folks know what is going on. Just appearing out of nowhere, armed with the intent of making a political statement, is really rude and ill mannered.

Also, don't say you are doing this to help me preserve MY rights, I don't need any help.

The rule about "Don't frighten the women and horses", as old as it is, still applies.

[CCT125US]

For the Open Carry advocates on the forum:

How many people were "normalized" to guns that day?

That's part of the problem with these clowns. What does it mean to normalize something? That is going to vary from person to person. Take myself for example, I carry concealed every single day, shoot multiple times a week, "bin shootin fir yurs", my wife, father, and mother are staunchly pro gun. I view open carry as deviant in all but a few instances. OC advocates want to normalize Suzie soccer mom to firearms, by strolling through a public place? You cant even normalize me.

[GardoneVT]

Exposure of deadly weapons does not desensitize people. Instead ,it quite rationally puts them on edge. Scaring the client is not the best marketing strategy.

[the Schwartz]

If you'd bothered to read my post, you'd see that at no time did I ever state that I agreed with what they were doing―


@triggered, are we? 🙄

Given the behavior of the folks around him and in the immediate area, it looks like quite a few folks there have been "normalized" to guns in their presence; no one seems to be freaking out from what can be seen in the image provided. Looks like they are going about their business instead of getting a case of the "vapors".

It's not the way that I'd OC (certainly not with a rifle and certainly not carried unslung like that) if I had chosen to do so, but some folks just have to make "a tacticool fashion statement". You can't fix "stupid", best to ignore these types or, if you sense trouble brewing....leave.

―however, having a "hissy fit" when you get "triggered" by seeing something that you dislike or disagree with solves nothing.


Look, you would have to be living under a rock or sleeping in a van down by the river to not understand the current political climate concerning firearms right now. We are potentially facing sweeping, nationwide restrictions, up to a new AWB. So how does showing up in a public space, inhabited in large part by "normal earth people" help us? Answer: It doesn't. It just adds fuel to the anti's fire that people with firearms are irrational, unable to make good decisions, and in some cases, downright threatening.

You can go on and on with the bullshit of how people will accept it, maybe embrace it, maybe even come over to our side. But I hope that deep down inside, you understand that for the lie that it is. Fact is, most folks just want to live their lives and not be bothered, go to a farmers market with their children and not be accosted by the sight of some non-uniformed, non-LEO identifiable person "swanning" around with a long gun. It cause fear and concern, because they don't know you or your intentions. I don't blame them. It would concern me too.

If you want to express your rights, go get a permit, have a parade or a rally, advertise the event so folks know what is going on. Just appearing out of nowhere, armed with the intent of making a political statement, is really rude and ill mannered.

Also, don't say you are doing this to help me preserve MY rights, I don't need any help.

The rule about "Don't frighten the women and horses", as old as it is, still applies.

Sure, the rule applies, but judging from the images provided in the article, no one seems to have been "spooked" except for a notable few here.

I don't like seeing stupid behavior either, but there is little that I can do to stop others from doing stuff like that.

It is simply not worth the additional blood pressure (e.g.: "hissy fits", breathless exclamations of disbelief and dislike) that it requires....

[wvincent]

If you'd bothered to read my post, you'd see that at no time did I ever state that I agreed with what they were doing―



―however, having a "hissy fit" when you get "triggered" by seeing something that you dislike or disagree with solves nothing.



Sure, the rule applies, but judging from the images provided in the article, no one seems to have been "spooked" except for a notable few here.

I don't like seeing stupid behavior either, but there is little that I can do to stop others from doing stuff like that.

It is simply not worth the additional blood pressure (e.g.: "hissy fits", breathless exclamations of disbelief and dislike) that it requires....

Judging by the man on the streets interviews in the link, I don't think anyone was normalized.
I guess one persons hissy fit or triggered is just another persons concern for their safety.
Using snarky catch phrases doesn't change the fact that you are causing fear in the general populace.
If OC advocates can't convince the majority on this forum, how do you think normal people feel?

[wvincent]

Per the article it wasn't just one person but a group. That would cause less alarm I would think, but just as much "look at these idiots."

I don't know, 5 persons almost sounds like a cell to me.

[0ddl0t]

For the Open Carry advocates on the forum:

How many people were "normalized" to guns that day?

None.

Would be better if a scout troop was marching with .22s or if a hunter had a rifle slung over his back while mountain biking from his home (as was legal in my youth here, but no longer is).

[Zincwarrior]

I'd leave because:

1. They might be a big group of nuts
2. Someone might challenge them and they might respond irrationally. What if somebody just tried to get in their face or push one to see how tough they are?
3. The law could show up and that interaction could go wrong quickly.
4. A concealed carrier might just draw on them as recently happened.

I've had arguments with folks who think that such behavior will extinguish fear of guns.



That annoyed some OC folks.

ALso if they are OCing for a political statement, why are they doing it with a mag in?

[the Schwartz]

If OC advocates can't convince the majority on this forum, how do you think normal people feel?

Oh, does the "majority" (whatever the Hell that is supposed to be) on this forum have some sort of special legislative/moral authority that I was not made aware of?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The OC folks in TX managed to produce the ever increasing number of 30.07 signs with some associated 30.06s. Not too much successful behavior therapy there.

I have suggested that OC folks also promote their rights to wear nothing but a flesh colored thong (as a guy did here for grins). I suggest they do that in the public library parking lot where loads of school children leave their buses for the associated park and playground (along with library events).

Please extinguish their fear of guns and lard ass human bodies. Fat shaming is a problem as seen by the controversy surrounding Bill Maher's comments on fat. Thus, kill two birds with one stone. No long afraid of guns and fat, these kids will be psychological health.

Now since I use that library a good deal, what should I do when AR-15 lardball in a thong gets off by the school bus. Call the law or shout Hurray for the RKBA and the Right to Keep a Bare Ass!

[Aray]

I'm sick to death of this, at best, misguided attention whoring.

[Zincwarrior]

So if ''one'' engaged in OC is a threat, ''many'' engaged in the same behavior are not?

If I observe behavior that could be described as "alarming", then I'd just as soon have it be only one person rather than a large group.

From the looks of the picture provided in the article, it looks like most of the people surrounding the two people pictured have taken the latter position of "look at those idiots".

Faced with something like this (it is certainly not the way that I'd ever OC) and I sensed something truly wrong, I would leave first, then if that concerned contact local LE and get their input on it.

Yes because "look at these idiots" is a good thing.
Thats the on photo. We do not know what has happened before that. They at least had the presence of mind to warn the police, so said police didn't immediately shoot them.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Oh, does the "majority" (whatever the Hell that is supposed to be) on this forum have some sort of special legislative/moral authority that I was not made aware of?

How about reasonable expertise in a variety of professions, fields and disciplines that enables to one to evaluate the PR utility of OC, the tactical utility of OC, the risk of seeing someone stroll with a long arm?

[the Schwartz]

The OC folks in TX managed to produce the ever increasing number of 30.07 signs with some associated 30.06s. Not too much successful behavior therapy there.

I have suggested that OC folks also promote their rights to wear nothing but a flesh colored thong (as a guy did here for grins). I suggest they do that in the public library parking lot where loads of school children leave their buses for the associated park and playground (along with library events).

Please extinguish their fear of guns and lard ass human bodies. Fat shaming is a problem as seen by the controversy surrounding Bill Maher's comments on fat. Thus, kill two birds with one stone. No long afraid of guns and fat, these kids will be psychological health.

Now since I use that library a good deal, what should I do when AR-15 lardball in a thong gets off by the school bus. Call the law or shout Hurray for the RKBA and the Right to Keep a Bare Ass!

Beto? Is that you?

[the Schwartz]

How about reasonable expertise in a variety of professions, fields and disciplines that enables to one to evaluate the PR utility of OC, the tactical utility of OC, the risk of seeing someone stroll with a long arm?

Neat. An appeal to authority.

Still a logical fallacy, Glenn.

Nice try.

Perhaps you can convene a board and press on from there.🙄

[Hambo]

They at least had the presence of mind to warn the police, so said police didn't immediately shoot them.

That is unfortunate for the gene pool.

[Zincwarrior]

Beto? Is that you?
If banning flesh colored thongs makes you Beto, call me Beto...

[BehindBlueI's]

Beto? Is that you?

Seriously, if you're just going to ad hominem don't cry about logical fallacies. Would you like to actually address the experiences in Texas or just toss up your purity test?


Neat. An appeal to authority.

Still a logical fallacy, Glenn.

Nice try.

Perhaps you can convene a board and press on from there.🙄

Appeal to authority =/= recognizing expertise or deferring to authority or experience.


Nobody here is the enemy. Remember that and let's try to keep PF to a higher standard.

[wvincent]

Oh, does the "majority" (whatever the Hell that is supposed to be) on this forum have some sort of special legislative/moral authority that I was not made aware of?

Umm, no.
I was just thinking we are a great test market for that theme.
If you can't sell it here, I doubt you can sell it anywhere.

Your post sounds like you are upset?
I apologize if I triggered you in any way.

[LittleLebowski]

Move this thread back to civility, please.

[baddean]

Move this thread back to civility, please.

Thanks LL. My ignore list had a growth spurt.

[the Schwartz]

Seriously, if you're just going to ad hominem don't cry about logical fallacies. Would you like to actually address the experiences in Texas or just toss up your purity test?

The thread topic was about OC at a farmer's market, not the "Texas experiences". If you want to re-title the thread to be more accurate in its description of topic; fine with me.


Appeal to authority =/= recognizing expertise or deferring to authority or experience.

Nobody here is the enemy. Remember that and let's try to keep PF to a higher standard.

I'd be happy to assume that I, too, am included in the "Nobody here is the enemy" statement, but could do without the sanctimony.

[the Schwartz]

Move this thread back to civility, please.

OK, LL. OC seems to be ''touchy'' for some here, so I'll leave it at that.

[TGS]

―however, having a "hissy fit" when you get "triggered" by seeing something that you dislike or disagree with solves nothing.

Well, I wasn't having a hissy fit, and I didn't think my post came off as triggered.

I wrote:

"For the Open Carry advocates on the forum: How many people were normalized to guns that day?"

Ever since I've been on this forum I've had a history of being abrasive and holding no punches. I assure you, as can the rest of the forum that has known me since the beginning that this is not what my posts look like when I'm triggered. If that question comes off as having a hissy fit or triggered to you, you might be projecting and want to do some reflection about the statement you made in the above quotation.

[corneileous]

OK, LL. OC seems to be ''touchy'' for some here, so I'll leave it at that.

Ain’t no doubt about that. [emoji41]


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[CCT125US]

Oh, does the "majority" (whatever the Hell that is supposed to be) on this forum have some sort of special legislative/moral authority that I was not made aware of?
Not at all. However, when people who carry personally and professionally on a daily basis explain that the message is not being received as intended, one might want to reevaluate the delivery.


Umm, no.
I was just thinking we are a great test market for that theme.

Bingo. I hesitate to admit this, but when I see an open carry advocate in a public place, a small part of me begins to agree with the elitist antis. Not everyone should have a gun, and by doing unsmart things in public with a long gun or handgun, one could see how the message could be ill received.

[JodyH]

Nobody ever went vegetarian after having a PETA-tard throw blood all over their leather coat.

[Tensaw]

I am going to go ahead acknowledge that I am about to pose a suggestion/question that, in all likelihood, is a bad idea.

So, if any of ya’ll found yourself there at the farmer’s market when this fool shows up, is there any prospect of perhaps talking to him and trying to get him/them to understand why doing what they are doing undermines the very thing that they purport to be trying to accomplish? And if you were to undertake this Quixotic quest, how would you approach that conversation? Serious question. As distasteful and frustrating of a conversation that this would be, at the end of the day he is undermining *our* rights and how *we* are viewed by the non-shooting public. And this one tac-tard act is going to leave an impression on far more many voters than all of the responsible gun-owning activities of everyone on this board combined.

So, what you try to talk to this guy to get him to stop? And if so, what would you say?

[blues]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1204027857/cletus_van_damme_400x400.jpg

"Next thing you know, folks won't like mullets."

[BehindBlueI's]

The thread topic was about OC at a farmer's market, not the "Texas experiences".

Then you're missing the point in that what happened in TX is instructive and parallels can be drawn.

OC guys do what they are doing in this farmer's market. The article states "City leaders say there’s a legislative package...city feels are common-sense gun regulations." A bit of research shows at least two cities are trying to overturn the state's preemption of local firearms ordinances so they can ban carry in city buildings, parks, etc.

[Aray]

I am going to go ahead acknowledge that I am about to pose a suggestion/question that, in all likelihood, is a bad idea.

So, if any of ya’ll found yourself there at the farmer’s market when this fool shows up, is there any prospect of perhaps talking to him and trying to get him/them to understand why doing what they are doing undermines the very thing that they purport to be trying to accomplish? And if you were to undertake this Quixotic quest, how would you approach that conversation? Serious question. As distasteful and frustrating of a conversation that this would be, at the end of the day he is undermining *our* rights and how *we* are viewed by the non-shooting public. And this one tac-tard act is going to leave an impression on far more many voters than all of the responsible gun-owning activities of everyone on this board combined.

So, what you try to talk to this guy to get him to stop? And if so, what would you say?

Any attempt I have ever made with an open carry advocate has been an abject failure. Zealotry and emotion has been what I have received in return, basically the inverse of the ban and confiscate crowd.

There is zero chance I would try to talk to people that are grouped up and actively OCing at the public.

[CCT125US]

So, what you try to talk to this guy to get him to stop? And if so, what would you say?

Initial thought is that an armed man, confronting another openly armed man, to talk about how he is wrong, could end badly.

However, upon further review, I might consider the following, if my family were not present.

Strike up a conversation, play dumb, invite him to sit for a cup of coffee. Let him talk, pontificate, bloviate at length, and then after careful evaluation, possibly reveal that you too are enthusiastic about the 2A. Share what you do to increase awareness and further the shooting Sports.

[the Schwartz]

I am going to go ahead acknowledge that I am about to pose a suggestion/question that, in all likelihood, is a bad idea.

So, if any of ya’ll found yourself there at the farmer’s market when this fool shows up, is there any prospect of perhaps talking to him and trying to get him/them to understand why doing what they are doing undermines the very thing that they purport to be trying to accomplish? And if you were to undertake this Quixotic quest, how would you approach that conversation? Serious question. As distasteful and frustrating of a conversation that this would be, at the end of the day he is undermining *our* rights and how *we* are viewed by the non-shooting public. And this one tac-tard act is going to leave an impression on far more many voters than all of the responsible gun-owning activities of everyone on this board combined.

So, what you try to talk to this guy to get him to stop? And if so, what would you say?

It might be a bad idea, but at it core it is still an astute question and one that underlies the posts that I have made.

Many claim that there is a problem, yet no solutions have been offered.

Gonna sit tight and watch. Maybe something good comes of this. We'll see.

[BehindBlueI's]

So, if any of ya’ll found yourself there at the farmer’s market when this fool shows up, is there any prospect of perhaps talking to him and trying to get him/them to understand why doing what they are doing undermines the very thing that they purport to be trying to accomplish?

Me? No. See this thread? Want to do that in person? That's what you get, at best.

[blues]

Hell, I'll admit to not really cottoning to a workman I didn't know OC'ing on my property when he was there to do some concrete work on my walk.

He was a middle aged gentleman and, as it turned out, a good and likable guy, but I sort of wanted to know that before I came upon someone just showing up armed.

[STI]

If I get the opportunity to ask one of these fellas what their plan was for being leg- or ankle-kicked from their 6, while not coming across as confrontational or condescending, I’ll take it.

It could be an illuminating conversation for at least one of us - worst case it’ll be a real life version of the piss tasting going on in this thread :)

[RevolverRob]

Ever since I've been on this forum I've had a history of being abrasive and holding no punches. I assure you, as can the rest of the forum that has known me since the beginning that this is not what my posts look like when I'm triggered.

I'll vouch for TGS on this. He and I both have abrasive personalities and tend to not hold punches. And we've exchanged blows a time or two. But I interpreted nothing out of his question as anything less than the question asked and nothing more than a semi-serious question with a hint or sarcasm.


Nobody ever went vegetarian after having a PETA-tard throw blood all over their leather coat.

True story.

If a PETA-tard threw blood on my leather jacket, we'd be having a discussion about how they'll be paying for the replacement or repair of that object.


Hell, I'll admit to not really cottoning to a workman I didn't know OC'ing on my property when he was there to do some concrete work on my walk.

That is actually perfectly legitimate. Seriously, your private property and you have the absolute right to prefer to be aware of individuals carrying arms and being entitled to discuss your concerns with said individual directly.

Which I suppose gets to the heart of these OC issues. We not only have rights to carry arms, we have rights to not be carried at. I'd guess most OC people don't understand what the Constitution means...Because the number of times I've heard stupid things like, "You (the individual) cannot deny ma rights!" Let's me know that people have a fundamental misunderstanding of how rights in this nation work.

[willie]

If I saw a dude carrying an AR in a mall or farmers's market, I would be tempted to walk behind in case somebody needed to shoot him in the head. There is some jest to this statement. Some not all. First let me say that tailing people for such purpose is not in my nature. Neither is shooting another. But.....

[blues]

That is actually perfectly legitimate. Seriously, your private property and you have the absolute right to prefer to be aware of individuals carrying arms and being entitled to discuss your concerns with said individual directly.

Yes, Rob, I'm well aware of the law and my rights under them.

[wvincent]

Move this thread back to civility, please.

42620

If so, consider me apologized. I could have said it way better.

[BehindBlueI's]

If I get the opportunity to ask one of these fellas what their plan was for being leg- or ankle-kicked from their 6, while not coming across as confrontational or condescending, I’ll take it.

It could be an illuminating conversation for at least one of us - worst case it’ll be a real life version of the piss tasting going on in this thread :)

From experience, you'll be told it's never happened. That OCers are never disarmed is a sacred belief. I have the advantage of having multiple case files of it happening that I personally worked. Then those guys just failed "situational awareness". Not much you can do when 3 people ambush you and know enough rudimentary tactics to approach from different angles. Then how do I know they were targeted for their guns? Maybe the gun was just a happy accident? From the interviews with suspects who were caught. You might then get "well, concealed guns get stolen to". Yes, they do...which means they weren't concealed very well or it was a happy accident...but usually the first. CC gun grabs have mostly been either known parties or gun sale ambushes, sometimes both. Then it will either bifurcate into I'm a liar or it'll never happen to me.

I've tilted at the windmill before.

OC isn't always harmful. I remember rallies in Ohio to get concealed carry passed where state residents were encouraged to open carry a handgun and out of state residents were encouraged to wear an empty holster (it was unclear if the state open-carry-with-no-license applied to residents only or not and the organizers didn't want any test cases). Context matters, though. The more people that see you as a "problem" are more people supporting the eventual "solution".

[wvincent]

To me, it's all about normalcy.
We don't expect to pull up to a public venue with our family, and see LE or private security with slung long arms.
We don't expect to see LE or private security at Starbucks or the local eatery with slung long guns.
If we do see this, most of us probably re-think our visit there that day, as it is abnormal, and possibly perceive an increased threat.

So why would anyone think seeing a bunch of questionable civiy's doing it would be cool?

Third world shit hole, with AK's stacked on benches, MAM's wandering around with long arms, with dead critter's hanging up by the butchers stall, right next to the guy selling dates and figs. Coffee so thick and black you can stand a spoon in it, in little bitty cups, (actually that coffee sounds really good). Yep, public carry of long arms is the normal at the hole in the wall, third world bazaar.

Not so much here and now.
If it did become the new normal, I would have to wonder what tragic event caused it.

Open carry, winning hearts and minds since...............Never

[RevolverRob]

Yes, Rob, I'm well aware of the law and my rights under them.

Sorry, let me clarify that I meant something more subtle there -

Not only was your response perfectly reasonable and legal, it demonstrates the dichotomy that it is unreasonable for someone who might desire to open carry to expect to have that right any/everywhere. Yet many of them operate under that very assumption, re: the individual doing concrete work on your property.

For instance, I have no idea why I would ASSume that it was perfectly fine to carry an AR15 in a Farmer's Market. Or a dog park. Or a bank. Or a Chipotle. Or on someone else's front lawn for that matter. As in, I just really do not understand the mindset of people who think, "It's mah rights, I'll do what I want."

Maybe it's the way I grew up; where you didn't cross another man's fence/property line wearing/carrying arms, unless you wanted to be met with an armed response. Or maybe it's that I worked in construction and carried a gun and always kept my arm concealed, because it's polite and appropriate.

I guess I'm with CCT125US on this - open carry in most circumstances just strikes me as deviant behavior.

[trailrunner]

One of my adult daughters lives in Alexandria. She leans hard left, but on guns I’ve managed to convince her to keep an open mind.

She showed me that photo and asked me about it. She will continue to keep an open mind, but these incidents don’t make it easy.


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[Trooper224]

Most of us here, "most" of us, realize that guns are serious tools for serious purposes. They aren't fashion accessories or political statements. Tools not talismans, to paraphrase Pat Mac. Far too many people in our society have turned firearms and their ownership into a fetish and this does us far more harm than good.

I prefer to live in a polite society. A polite society does not involve openly carrying firearms. Forget about all of the tactical disadvantages the practice brings about, it simply isn't polite, mature behavior. Attempting to "normalize" people to firearms through open carry is an ignorant fools errand. You don't convince anyone of anything by throwing it in their face, be it guns or gay marriage.

I look around the world at all of the places where people commonly carry slung rifles and exposed handguns as a "normal" practice. There isn't a single one of them that I'd like to call home. I have no desire to live in such a society.

[jc000]

...Ridiculous high powered, probably Chinese scope paired with a fixed front sight...

What’s wrong with a scope and an FSP? Sheesh…

[Cypher]

If I saw a dude carrying an AR in a mall or farmers's market, I would be tempted to walk behind in case somebody needed to shoot him in the head. There is some jest to this statement. Some not all. First let me say that tailing people for such purpose is not in my nature. Neither is shooting another. But.....

Honestly I would assume he was just another open carry idiot and go about my business.

If I had any other inclination it would be to leave

[Stephanie B]

Those clowns are making the case for the other side (https://www.fox5dc.com/news/open-carry-display-at-old-town-alexandria-farmers-market-triggers-outrage).

[Cypher]

I saw this on Facebeast it's from gunfreezone.net


https://gunfreezone.net/open-letter-to-open-carry-idiots/


I live in an open carry state and no one really looks twice at an openly displayed handgun on a belt. At most you might get a question about what model you're carrying. I don't open carry because I've actually had people try to take my gun off of me but I support having the right to make your own decision in the matter

The problem is the idiots who feel the need to run around with an AR strapped to their back or even worse take it off their back for a photo op. I think so many people did that that it became the public perception and it hurt gun rights overall.

ETA after reading this entire thread I want to reiterate a comment that another poster made. This is a forum for firearms enthusiasts. People here strongly support the second amendment and Not One Single Person participating in this discussion supports this person's actions.

There's no way he changed the hearts and minds of people who aren't second amendment supporters

[Baldanders]

He did that in Old Town Alexandria? That's not exactly friendly territory. It will be viewed negatively. Nobody will feel like guns are "normalized" for them.

Moron.

I swear it's as if the antis have started impersonating gun nuts (and I *am* a gun nut, so I get to use that term) and are doing this to elicit a negative reaction. I mean, we can't be *that* tone deaf, right?

Chris

Unfortunately, many pro-2a folks are completely oblivious to all arguments except ones that involve "mah rights!!"

Who needs to be concerned about "tone" when you can bleat "what part of 'shall not be infringed' do you not understand" over and over.

[Joe in PNG]

A handgun carried in a holster (quality kit preferred) isn't as obviously threatening.

A scary black rifle carried in a ready position is.

One thing that is often forgotten is that if enough of the people are frightened & outraged, they can make the Second Amendment go away. It may be via Constitutional Repeal, or it may be via voting in people who will basically throw enough bans and restrictions to basically do the same thing.

[LittleLebowski]

Those clowns are making the case for the other side (https://www.fox5dc.com/news/open-carry-display-at-old-town-alexandria-farmers-market-triggers-outrage).

Correct.

[Baldanders]

Me? No. See this thread? Want to do that in person? That's what you get, at best.

I think the time for those conversations is on sites like this, at your LNGS...anywhere but where someone thinks they are doing their bit for 2A rights by OCing. A public argument isn't going to help us at all.

[AKDoug]

I don't believe in firearms permits, but I have several friends that have pointed out that OC people should be required to get permits and concealed carry should be allowed with no restrictions. I find myself leaning closer to that direction every day.

[Cypher]

I don't believe in firearms permits, but I have several friends that have pointed out that OC people should be required to get permits and concealed carry should be allowed with no restrictions. I find myself leaning closer to that direction every day.

No permit has been required open carry in Colorado since we became a state I wouldn't want that to go backwards even if I never open carry again.

I would be willing to bet that if we got permitless concealed carry (Which would actually require an amendment to the Colorado state constitution) a bunch of these open carry people would quit doing it.

I realize it's apples and oranges but I think in general the Firearms Community would have been a lot better off if all the people that were pushing for open carry had pushed for permitless concealed carry instead.

[AKDoug]

I realize it's apples and oranges but I think in general the Firearms Community would have been a lot better off if all the people that were pushing for open carry had pushed for permitless concealed carry instead. No argument from me on that.

[mtnbkr]

FWIW, Open Carry is perfectly legal in VA. Additionally, until about 10 years ago, it was essentially required because you could not CCW in a bar. In VA, a bar is essentially any restaurant that served alcohol. I'm not saying you couldn't CCW and drink, you couldn't be in the establishment at all while CCWing. So, you could go with your friends or family to TGIFridays for a burger if you were carrying concealed (we ate a lot of meals in Cracker Barrel as a result). However, you could OC just fine in a bar (restaurant or honest-to-goodness bar). It was not unusal for CCWers to doff their cover garment or tuck it in behind the gat. That, along with a whole bunch of other BS gun laws in VA got changed due to the efforts of the VCDL. Now, CCW is just dandy in a bar or restaurant as long as you're not drinking.

Those changes in the law are exactly what locales such as Alexandria want to revert.

My wife, who is not a gun person even after nearly 20 years of marriage to me (and having a father who is a hunter and CCWer) is not put off by someone OCing a pistol. I suspect she'd have an issue with Mr.Jorts-with-Rifles.

So, not only is pistol OC perfectly acceptable legally and socially, it was actually necessary up to a point. However...OC of long guns was never the intention, nor is it necessary to "normalize guns".

Chris

[fixer]

Wanna get 'Red Flagged'? Because OC'ing like that is how you get red flagged. The fucking jorts are icing on the shit-cake. The goddamn jorts are actually more offesive than the shrub-master.

OC vs CCW isn't the discussion we need right now. It wasn't one in 2016, 2017, 2018 etc...especially in Texas.

in 2019, 2020, 2021...2030...OC is a purely political ploy. Its virtue signaling in purest form.

In 1880 on the frontier, OC was a part of life. It wasn't even OC--it was how you got shit done.

No matter how much we wring our hands, shake them at the sky, scream into pillows--right now OC is just not a tolerable way of protesting or a way of life.

People are utterly losing their shit over the sight of a firearm. People running from a Harley backfiring...People are having to confront a reality that at any time a random human being is going to start firing at them. For most people this is a reality they can't and won't accept. There are a dozen folks now running for President on some variation of a scheme to remove you from your 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendment rights--and they are getting standing-fucking-ovations. They will take any excuse to use executive action to make this happen. This is not a healthy and productive backdrop to make your case for OC or normalzing folks to carrying weapons.

We are a very, very long way from the point where casual OC of any weapon is normalized. It isn't the 1880's frontier (although Hobbs and Seminole feel that way sometimes). If modern life turned to such conditions, OC wouldn't be some political victory. It'd be a sad and embarrassing reality that you can't go to the goddamn grocery store without a rifle to protect your family's one month supply of goods from outlaws and savages. It was a brutal fucking existence that bares no realistic similarity to today.

On another note...want to normalize the ownership and use of weapons? Great...so do I. Folks are way too far gone from their own accountability in their survival. I get it. However look at the Mary-J movement. Did they advocate for folks to shoot up in the streets as a form of protest? Did they walk around blowing their doobie-smoke into people's faces? Were people doing lines of cocaine in Walmart as a form of protest?

NOPE!

[mtnbkr]

On another note...want to normalize the ownership and use of weapons? Great...so do I. Folks are way too far gone from their own accountability in their survival. I get it. However look at the Mary-J movement. Did they advocate for folks to shoot up in the streets as a form of protest? Did they walk around blowing their doobie-smoke into people's faces? Were people doing lines of cocaine in Walmart as a form of protest?

NOPE!

That's why I don't even mention self defense or any of that when I'm trying to recruit new shooters. I talk about the fun aspects and compare it to golf, darts, and any number of other hand-eye-coordination sports or games. It's fun. It's challenging. It's an activity you can engage in with your friends and family. It's...wholesome. :)

First hit is free...

Chris

[Hambo]

I realize it's apples and oranges but I think in general the Firearms Community would have been a lot better off if all the people that were pushing for open carry had pushed for permitless concealed carry instead.

I've said for years that instead of advocating for OC, they should be advocating for the ability to carry on campus or other areas that are currently restricted. Every time OC advocates pop up, they manage to kill the chances of other needed changes.

[corneileous]

Wanna get 'Red Flagged'? Because OC'ing like that is how you get red flagged. The fucking jorts are icing on the shit-cake. The goddamn jorts are actually more offesive than the shrub-master.

OC vs CCW isn't the discussion we need right now. It wasn't one in 2016, 2017, 2018 etc...especially in Texas.

in 2019, 2020, 2021...2030...OC is a purely political ploy. Its virtue signaling in purest form.

In 1880 on the frontier, OC was a part of life. It wasn't even OC--it was how you got shit done.

No matter how much we wring our hands, shake them at the sky, scream into pillows--right now OC is just not a tolerable way of protesting or a way of life.

People are utterly losing their shit over the sight of a firearm. People running from a Harley backfiring...People are having to confront a reality that at any time a random human being is going to start firing at them. For most people this is a reality they can't and won't accept. There are a dozen folks now running for President on some variation of a scheme to remove you from your 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendment rights--and they are getting standing-fucking-ovations. They will take any excuse to use executive action to make this happen. This is not a healthy and productive backdrop to make your case for OC or normalzing folks to carrying weapons.

We are a very, very long way from the point where casual OC of any weapon is normalized. It isn't the 1880's frontier (although Hobbs and Seminole feel that way sometimes). If modern life turned to such conditions, OC wouldn't be some political victory. It'd be a sad and embarrassing reality that you can't go to the goddamn grocery store without a rifle to protect your family's one month supply of goods from outlaws and savages. It was a brutal fucking existence that bares no realistic similarity to today.

On another note...want to normalize the ownership and use of weapons? Great...so do I. Folks are way too far gone from their own accountability in their survival. I get it. However look at the Mary-J movement. Did they advocate for folks to shoot up in the streets as a form of protest? Did they walk around blowing their doobie-smoke into people's faces? Were people doing lines of cocaine in Walmart as a form of protest?

NOPE!

Good information here. Although I am still a firm believer that open carry- not what these libs refer to as an almighty assault rifle but, open pistol carry can have its place in society if done correctly. This is just my opinion. Do I open carry? No. Out in the woods or outside at the home 20 sometimes? Yes. Do I agree with open carry in urban environments? I don’t really have a straight up answer to that totally but, there are many reasons why I prefer concealed carry and a lot what you all already posted in this thread alone is why I conceal carry.

Although I do sometimes think it’s funny when somebody open carries just to piss off the liberals but unfortunately, constantly scaring and pissing people like that off is what’s probably going to lead to even more gun control. These people are scared, and they’re tired of all the shootings that keep happening and they refuse to not see everybody openly carrying anything as a threat, that it’s just gonna make more problems for us in the long run.


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[LittleLebowski]

I'm all for the right to open carry. There's a need for it to be legal. I just wish that Ralphie would not drive two hours from his hometown to liberal Alexandria just to get attention with his poorly outfitted AR.

https://media.tenor.com/images/da3f7f43b84d0df87cd77d78cab41fe7/tenor.gif

[JodyH]

I'm all aboard with the message that carrying firearms (open or concealed) is normal behavior done by normal people like your friends, neighbors and coworkers.
The mainstreaming of firearms in general is a great message.
I'm not on board with shouting that message through a bullhorn (which OC of an AR in a farmers market is the equivalent of) because bullhorn shouting has never ever worked no matter the message.

It took someone kicking a little lady (Rosa Parks) off a bus and siccing dogs on a preacher (MLK) to change perceptions on civil rights, riots and loud marches didn't do shit.
Gay rights weren't advanced by flamers in leather banana slings humping each other in the SF pride parade it was advanced by the quiet hardworking "lifelong bachelors" down the block that surprise, surprise turned out to be a gay couple.

One can be 100% on board with the message but hate some of the messengers.

[corneileous]

I don't believe in firearms permits, but I have several friends that have pointed out that OC people should be required to get permits and concealed carry should be allowed with no restrictions. I find myself leaning closer to that direction every day.

I just can’t wrap my mind around permissions slips for any mode of carry or for any reason but if I was, I would agree with you on that one. I just don’t understand why some states allow open carry without a permit but not for conceal carry because you know that most people aren’t going to opt for the fee to exercise their rights. It’s like they are forcing people to open carry.


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[trailrunner]

I'm all for the right to open carry. There's a need for it to be legal. I just wish that Ralphie would not drive two hours from his hometown to liberal Alexandria just to get attention with his poorly outfitted AR.



That guy wasn’t local?


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[Zincwarrior]

Although I do sometimes think it’s funny when somebody open carries just to piss off the liberals b

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Why do you think it just ticks off liberals?

[wsr]

OC and OC activists have done way more good than bad for carry rights as a whole in Michigan
With out the OC movement MI would still have it’s corrupt may issue system and people would still be getting arrested/ticketed for legal OC and printing

[corneileous]

Why do you think it just ticks off liberals?

I never said anything about it only angering the liberals. I said what I said based from the majority of what I’ve heard about most open-carriers only aiming to upset the libs.

Until joining this forum, it’s never become light to me about these people upsetting both groups of people.


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[corneileous]

OC and OC activists have done way more good than bad for carry rights as a whole in Michigan
With out the OC movement MI would still have it’s corrupt may issue system and people would still be getting arrested/ticketed for legal OC and printing

Well, it’s kinda like, what do you expect? Michigan is one of those states that, it’s like they promote open carry because they let you do it for free. Alabama is the sane way.


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[LittleLebowski]

That guy wasn’t local?


Nope, dipshit drove all of the way up from Hopewell VA to seek attention.

[Borderland]

Those clowns are making the case for the other side (https://www.fox5dc.com/news/open-carry-display-at-old-town-alexandria-farmers-market-triggers-outrage).

Of course they are.

When somebody like Elizabeth Warren gets elected and we get AWB2 they'll wonder what went wrong. Maybe they didn't normalize enough people to gun culture 2.0 as I've heard it referred to here.

[GardoneVT]

South Dakota recently went “Constitutional Carry.” Rest assured the governor & state legislature didn’t pass it because people took long guns to Starbucks.

For a flip side of this , Open Carry was still legal in CA until relatively recently. It was banned directly because of obnoxious OC activity.

[wvincent]

South Dakota recently went “Constitutional Carry.” Rest assured the governor & state legislature didn’t pass it because people took long guns to Starbucks.

For a flip side of this , Open Carry was still legal in CA until relatively recently. It was banned directly because of obnoxious OC activity.

Correct on all accounts! Thus why I don't think I'm ever leaving here, no matter how much the winter's suck. Hopefully I'm long dead before the left discover this spot in flyover country.

[El Cid]

While I disagree with OC for a couple reasons, the thing I find most alarming is the idiots like the one in the photo who want to carry a rifle or long gun in their hands. If you are going to OC, for god's sake have the pistol holstered, or a long gun slung. Carrying it in your hands sends the message you are about to do something with it. It's like the OC crowd has no ability to understand context...

Who remembers this douche from Washington State's OC protest? Walking into a government building in a long duster while holding an AR "pistol" at the low ready?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-state-senate-bans-open-carry-guns-in-public-gallery (main pic here)

I can tell you with 99.9% certainty I would shoot him if I saw a dude walk into any public place like that. I would be within policy, and if I'm in policy I'm within the law.

[Hambo]

I said what I said based from the majority of what I’ve heard about most open-carriers only aiming to upset the libs.

Yeah, that's a winner of a strategy. Don't leave anyone on the fence. Don't act responsibly and make your point. Instead, piss off every single one. In a game where a few votes matter, burn it all down. :rolleyes:

[wsr]

South Dakota recently went “Constitutional Carry.” Rest assured the governor & state legislature didn’t pass it because people took long guns to Starbucks.

For a flip side of this , Open Carry was still legal in CA until relatively recently. It was banned directly because of obnoxious OC activity.

I don’t think using cali as a example is indicative of the rest of the country
MI had the opposite happen...OC was instrumental in getting shall issue, forcing city/county and LEOs to follow the law and stop wrongly arresting/ticketing people for OC and printing
I’m not defending the guy in the OP, the discussion seems to moved to OC as whole I’m just giving the other side of the issue

[Aray]

Yeah, that's a winner of a strategy. Don't leave anyone on the fence. Don't act responsibly and make your point. Instead, piss off every single one. In a game where a few votes matter, burn it all down. :rolleyes:

Agree. This is what pisses me off so much.

[HCM]

While I disagree with OC for a couple reasons, the thing I find most alarming is the idiots like the one in the photo who want to carry a rifle or long gun in their hands. If you are going to OC, for god's sake have the pistol holstered, or a long gun slung. Carrying it in your hands sends the message you are about to do something with it. It's like the OC crowd has no ability to understand context...

Who remembers this douche from Washington State's OC protest? Walking into a government building in a long duster while holding an AR "pistol" at the low ready?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-state-senate-bans-open-carry-guns-in-public-gallery (main pic here)

I can tell you with 99.9% certainty I would shoot him if I saw a dude walk into any public place like that. I would be within policy, and if I'm in policy I'm within the law.

Agree. Gun in hand is gun in use.

[JodyH]

There's a crosswalk here in town that's in the middle of a long 45mph street.
Traffic is required by law to yield to the pedestrian as soon as they enter the crosswalk.
I could probably get away with just strolling out into traffic on a bright sunny day (people might shake their head if I didn't exercise caution).
If I dressed up in all black and did it at 2am I'd get splatted within 2 or 3 steps from the curb and everybody would rightfully call me an idiot.
Both times I would be 100% in the clear legally.
Only one of those times would I have a good chance at surviving the encounter.
Dead right is still dead.

Open carry a holstered handgun in public and you might have a few people shake their heads.
Carry a rifle at the ready in public and not only are people going to call me an idiot, but I might end up splatted.
100% legal... but dead right is still dead.

[Borderland]

While I disagree with OC for a couple reasons, the thing I find most alarming is the idiots like the one in the photo who want to carry a rifle or long gun in their hands. If you are going to OC, for god's sake have the pistol holstered, or a long gun slung. Carrying it in your hands sends the message you are about to do something with it. It's like the OC crowd has no ability to understand context...

Who remembers this douche from Washington State's OC protest? Walking into a government building in a long duster while holding an AR "pistol" at the low ready?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-state-senate-bans-open-carry-guns-in-public-gallery (main pic here)

I can tell you with 99.9% certainty I would shoot him if I saw a dude walk into any public place like that. I would be within policy, and if I'm in policy I'm within the law.

I remember that guy. Not the sharpest tool in the shed.

I see the problem here for LE also. There's no way for LE to know what a person's intentions are. Someone calls and says a guy is walking thru a crowd with a semi-auto rifle. That's a defcon 1 situation right there for LE. Personally, I wouldn't stay in close proximity to one of these yahoos for fear of being shot by the police.

Eventually somebody will shoot a guy like this in the head, but at least he made a statement and got his 15 minutes of fame. That has to be worth something.;)

[Borderland]

I just can’t wrap my mind around permissions slips for any mode of carry or for any reason but if I was, I would agree with you on that one. I just don’t understand why some states allow open carry without a permit but not for conceal carry because you know that most people aren’t going to opt for the fee to exercise their rights. It’s like they are forcing people to open carry.


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We have both permit for CC and open carry in this state.

Hardly anyone OC's but plenty of people have carry permits. About 8% in my county. I have one and both of my neighbors do also. They don't OC and neither do I.

Might be different where you live, don't know.

[HCM]

I don’t think using cali as a example is indicative of the rest of the country
MI had the opposite happen...OC was instrumental in getting shall issue, forcing city/county and LEOs to follow the law and stop wrongly arresting/ticketing people for OC and printing
I’m not defending the guy in the OP, the discussion seems to moved to OC as whole I’m just giving the other side of the issue

Addressing printing and accidental exposure does not = OC.

Texas put a statute in place addressing printing and accidental exposure long before OC.

OC is stupid both tactically and socially.

My first hand experience with OC types has been:

A few are just to lazy to carry a handgun concealed. At least they are not leaving the gun unsecured in the car.

Many are ignorant and really believe their OC holstered handgun is a deterrent instead of a shoot me first sign. They also think they have infallible “situational awareness.” The fact that for many years before retention holsters and weapons retention training 1/5 cops were killed with their own guns and even with those factors it still occurs is lost on them.

The last are the majority of OC people - including all those Open carrying long guns. These are the “educators” who are really just attention seekers. They are, as Tam put it “carrying at people.”

The subject of the OP and the MO Walmart idiot are prime examples. They are not helping. Rather, they do more damage to gun rights than any anti gunner.

As Glenn Meyer mentioned earlier, the OC retards are THE reason TX did not get constitutional carry in 2016.

[Zincwarrior]

There's a youtube video of two OCers walking into a police station and getting almost multi ventilated and spread eagled by police SCREAMING at them with pistols drawn.

Given the video, the police had incredible restraint. But that was years ago. After years of mass shootings?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

They also almost sunk campus carry with their antics. As it was an effort to stop private colleges from banning campus carry was removed from the bills. Thus, all private schools ban it.

At the risk of being inflammatory, saying that you want to annoy the 'liberals' shows a lack of understanding of politics, persuasion, personal liberty and how to promote gun rights.

[HCM]

There's a youtube video of two OCers walking into a police station and getting almost multi ventilated and spread eagled by police SCREAMING at them with pistols drawn.

Given the video, the police had incredible restraint. But that was years ago. After years of mass shootings?

Yup. See post 103.

[corneileous]

We have both permit for CC and open carry in this state.

Hardly anyone OC's but plenty of people have carry permits. About 8% in my county. I have one and both of my neighbors do also. They don't OC and neither do I.

Might be different where you live, don't know.

What state do you live in if you don’t mind me asking? Here in Oklahoma- at least until November 1 that is, unless if those certain democratic lawmakers or whoever the hell they are don’t find a way to get their way and successfully repeal our upcoming constitutional carry first, we have to have a permit to carry at all. After the first; if everything still goes well, we won’t need a permit at all for open carry or concealed carry, unless if we intend to travel to one of the states that we have reciprocity with that’ll still require us to have an Oklahoma issued permit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[wsr]

Addressing printing and accidental exposure does not = OC.

Texas put a statute in place addressing printing and accidental exposure long before OC.

OC is stupid both tactically and socially.

My first hand experience with OC types has been:

A few are just to lazy to carry a handgun concealed. At least they are not leaving the gun unsecured in the car.

Many are ignorant and really believe their OC holstered handgun is a deterrent instead of a shoot me first sign. They also think they have infallible “situational awareness.” The fact that for many years before retention holsters and weapons retention training 1/5 cops were killed with their own guns and even with those factors it still occurs is lost on them.

The last are the majority of OC people - including all those Open carrying long guns. These are the “educators” who are really just attention seekers. They are, as Tam put it “carrying at people.”

The subject of the OP and the MO Walmart idiot are prime examples. They are not helping. Rather, they do more damage to gun rights than any anti gunner.

As Glenn Meyer mentioned earlier, the OC retards are THE reason TX did not get constitutional carry in 2016.

My reference to printing/accidental exposure did/does = OC in MI’s case...OC and buy extension printing/accidental exposure has always been LEGAL in MI, City’s/ counties and LEOs just decided they could apply the law how they wanted and either ticketed or arrested people on BS charges of brandishing or disturbing the peace
OC “educators” are who put a stop to this, not CC only guys, not hunting only fudds and not LEOs
So while there are plenty of douche bag OCers not all are just like not all CCers,LEOs or hunters are apathetic “appeasement” is the answer douche bags

[wsr]

There's a youtube video of two OCers walking into a police station and getting almost multi ventilated and spread eagled by police SCREAMING at them with pistols drawn.

Given the video, the police had incredible restraint. But that was years ago. After years of mass shootings?

That was Dearborn heights MI and those two are known douche bags

[txdpd]

My personal experience with OC types, and I certainly haven’t meet all of them, is that they don’t have the slightest care in the world about gun rights. They want any kind of attention they can get from people and be confrontational with any type of authority figure they can find, and gun rights happens to be an excuse for their behavior. In Texas a lot of the open carriers were/are cop blockers, they came to OC from Occupy, when the bottom fell out of the OC movement they went back to Cop Blocking or BLM.

I don’t know why some folks think just because it involves guns, that there’s a shared interest. I’m sure there are genuine OCers out there, but I’d verify before trusting.

[Borderland]

What state do you live in if you don’t mind me asking? Here in Oklahoma- at least until November 1 that is, unless if those certain democratic lawmakers or whoever the hell they are don’t find a way to get their way and successfully repeal our upcoming constitutional carry first, we have to have a permit to carry at all. After the first; if everything still goes well, we won’t need a permit at all for open carry or concealed carry, unless if we intend to travel to one of the states that we have reciprocity with that’ll still require us to have an Oklahoma issued permit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

WA.

We were one of the very first states to have shall issue permits to CC, 1961 IIRC. I've had a permit since 92. WA has always been an OC state since statehood. Local jurisdictions can't preempt that but they try.

With all of that I fear semi-auto rifles will be restricted soon. Assholes like the one in VA and demonstrators here will be the reason. The logic escapes me. Because I can until I piss off enough people and they say I can't, I guess.

[the Schwartz]

My personal experience with OC types, and I certainly haven’t meet all of them, is that they don’t have the slightest care in the world about gun rights. They want any kind of attention they can get from people and be confrontational with any type of authority figure they can find, and gun rights happens to be an excuse for their behavior. In Texas a lot of the open carriers were/are cop blockers, they came to OC from Occupy, when the bottom fell out of the OC movement they went back to Cop Blocking or BLM.

I don’t know why some folks think just because it involves guns, that there’s a shared interest. I’m sure there are genuine OCers out there, but I’d verify before trusting.

There are genuine OCers out there; thanks for acknowledging that. Not all of them are "stupid", "retards" or "attention whores".

Nice to see that there are some here who see it as necessary right (appreciated your post #91 LL!) and can refrain from name-calling because they dislike the right (or law) or see it as some sort of an ''evil''.

[the Schwartz]

Hell, I'll admit to not really cottoning to a workman I didn't know OC'ing on my property when he was there to do some concrete work on my walk.

He was a middle aged gentleman and, as it turned out, a good and likable guy, but I sort of wanted to know that before I came upon someone just showing up armed.

If only other's behaviors were as measured as yours. My guess, from the impression that I have of you from this board, is that you probably wandered out to the guy, struck up a friendly conversation and discovered what you did. :)

[GardoneVT]

There are genuine OCers out there; thanks for acknowledging that. Not all of them are "stupid", "retards" or "attention whores".

Nice to see that there are some here who see it as necessary right (appreciated your post #91 LL!) and can refrain from name-calling because they dislike the right (or law) or see it as some sort of an ''evil''.

I pose this question with no ill intent; if the option to carry concealed exists and there’s no legal restriction , why carry openly?

Exercising your right is no less true regardless of whether your shirt is atop or behind the grip. Data historically showed most LEOs were killed with their own openly carried firearms; that’s a substantial risk to assume. Within conversation distance , at some angles an offender can get to the gun faster then you can. After witnessing an oblivious LA security guard order a drink with his head down and XD openly presented for all to grab , Ive taken to calling it “charity carry”- as with one moment’s lapse of attention you’ll be donating the gun.

[Zincwarrior]

I pose this question with no ill intent; if the option to carry concealed exists and there’s no legal restriction , why carry openly?

Exercising your right is no less true regardless of whether your shirt is atop or behind the grip. Data historically showed most LEOs were killed with their own openly carried firearms; that’s a substantial risk to assume. Within conversation distance , at some angles an offender can get to the gun faster then you can. After witnessing an oblivious LA security guard order a drink with his head down and XD openly presented for all to grab , Ive taken to calling it “charity carry”- as with one moment’s lapse of attention you’ll be donating the gun.

In a rural (ranching or hiking) environment I would rather OC. More comfortable and there may be critters.
But in that context I am not annoying anyone or around much anyone frankly.

[the Schwartz]

I pose this question with no ill intent; if the option to carry concealed exists and there’s no legal restriction , why carry openly?

Exercising your right is no less true regardless of whether your shirt is atop or behind the grip. Data historically showed most LEOs were killed with their own openly carried firearms; that’s a substantial risk to assume. Within conversation distance , at some angles an offender can get to the gun faster then you can. After witnessing an oblivious LA security guard order a drink with his head down and XD openly presented for all to grab , Ive taken to calling it “charity carry”- as with one moment’s lapse of attention you’ll be donating the gun.

Sometimes it is for my own comfort, for others merely my own convenience. There are those here who get all upset about and say that it is not a legitimate reason, but here in Ohio (where it is constitutionally enumerated) I can do that and sometimes choose to do so rather than sweat my clothes through. Fortunately, those complaining about my practice are not in a position to deny it. Just as they make their own choices, I also have that same ability. Of course, I never carry a long gun (so ''slung'' or ''unslung'' is never a question that needs to answered) as it is not practical and eliminates the convenience of a having a smaller pistol. On those rare occasions that I do OC, I am dressed "business casual". I smile and engage those I meet (whether they notice the gun or not) with friendly conversation and humor. I am always aware of my surroundings. The name-calling (e.g.: "stupid", "retarded", etc.) is suggestive of folks who've no valid argument to offer. Could not care less of about their bloviating...

I carried openly as LE here in Ohio, and in other jurisdictions, and survived three weapon snatch attempts during the course of my LE employment and even with that I support the right of the people to avail themselves of OC as they see fit.

Will some folks misuse or flaunt it? Sure. Not much that I can do about it.

When they get "ventilated" (as some here use the parlance), then the courts can sort out the liability of all involved.

[TGS]

There are genuine OCers out there; thanks for acknowledging that. Not all of them are "stupid", "retards" or "attention whores".

Nice to see that there are some here who see it as necessary right (appreciated your post #91 LL!) and can refrain from name-calling because they dislike the right (or law) or see it as some sort of an ''evil''.

I think almost everyone here thinks that it is a necessary right.

The difference is being a responsible citizen with our rights.

The citizens of Athens, Tennessee circa 1946? Rooftop Korean-Americans circa 1992? GJM flying his bush plane or Malamute living his best life in the mountains? All perfect examples of why open carry needs to be a right, and I think everyone here is onboard with that.

The "Open Carry Movement"? Not a good example of why it needs to be a right.

In the end, regardless of whether one thinks OC activists are attention whoring retards or "genuine", reason demands that we look at the impact that open carry activism has. This is the reason I asked my previous question, how many people were "normalized" to guns that day?

If the default response (as it always has been with OC activists, IME) is to get defensive and indignant because someone would even ask that question, then I think that's pretty indicative and self-evident of the true answer and reason people are partaking in this movement.


I am always aware of my surroundings.

Ah, there it is.

Anyone know if Donut Operator has an OC bingo game yet? I love his bingo games.

[HCM]

My reference to printing/accidental exposure did/does = OC in MI’s case...OC and buy extension printing/accidental exposure has always been LEGAL in MI, City’s/ counties and LEOs just decided they could apply the law how they wanted and either ticketed or arrested people on BS charges of brandishing or disturbing the peace
OC “educators” are who put a stop to this, not CC only guys, not hunting only fudds and not LEOs
So while there are plenty of douche bag OCers not all are just like not all CCers,LEOs or hunters are apathetic “appeasement” is the answer douche bags

In TX OC ‘we are, and have been the biggest impediment to rolling back restrictions on firearms. Period.

Open Carry Texas are THE reason TX does not have constitutional Carry today. Armed occupation of legislative offices, death threats vs legislators and armed protests at legislators homes are not education.

What ever Michigan does, my point is that open carry is not required to write a statute that prevents legal action for printing and accidental exposures while carrying concealed. Michigan May have chosen to address it via OC but that does not mean OC is necessary to mitigate printing and accidental exposure issues. It can and has been addressed without OC in TX and elsewhere.

[wsr]

In TX OC ‘we are, and have been the biggest impediment to rolling back restrictions on firearms. Period.

Open Carry Texas are THE reason TX does not have constitutional Carry today. Armed occupation of legislative offices, death threats vs legislators and armed protests at legislators homes are not education.

What ever Michigan does, my point is that open carry is not required to write a statute that prevents legal action for printing and accidental exposures while carrying concealed. Michigan May have chosen to address it via OC but that does not mean OC is necessary to mitigate printing and accidental exposure issues. It can and has been addressed without OC in TX and elsewhere.

I guess I’m not being clear, MI didn’t address printing/accidental exposure through OC....printing/ accidental exposure had never been illegal in MI because OC has never been illegal in MI LEOs chose to enforce their idea of what was acceptable by charging with brandishing or disturbing the peace...it took OC activists going in large groups to “educate”the city and police departments

I don’t live in Texas but from what I’ve seen the gun laws there were never that good (comparatively) I would guess that constitutional carry was never gonna happen the OC idiots there just gave them a easy scapu

[Glenn E. Meyer]

As far as being a human AEGIS system for snatch attempts:

1. Expertise - it has been know for quite a long time that high levels of vigilance can be maintained only for about 20 minutes. You cannot always be 'on'. Well tested.

2. Not being an LEO, snatches from a LEO encounter that are close in wrestling matches are not really relevant to the civilian. He or she may not have a retention holster. He or she may not be in good shape. The snatches for an officer might give more precursor warning signs than a civilian at a gas pump.

A planned snatch of a civilian, spotted by some tough kid or kids, might start with a distraction and rather than gun grab - how about stabbing you a few times? How about a few shots from the Lorcin 25 ACP as your warning sign?

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/friends-dont-let-friends-open-carry

Piratically useless, the habituation argument is BS. As far as dress and sweat, wah, wah. 99 Degrees here today - concealed a Glock 9 and extra mag.

[Nephrology]

IMO the greatest sin committed by the OC movement is that they use guns as a symbol of something greater than they actually are - the same fundamental philosophical mistake of the anti-2A argument.

They are not toys or props, do not treat them as such. When they are used for their intended, lawful purpose, there are no problems, and never have been. Remember how long the machine gun registry was open for?

To the lay public, the civilian AR-15 remained successfully anonymous for many decades. I know the cat is well out of the bag, but I would very much like to return to that status quo.

[the Schwartz]

No idea what you are referring to here. Clarify, please? Not sure if snark, humor, a combination of both, some inside joke here on the P-F that I missed...


Anyone know if Donut Operator has an OC bingo game yet? I love his bingo games.

[the Schwartz]

As far as dress and sweat, wah, wah. 99 Degrees here today - concealed a Glock 9 and extra mag.

Fortunately, I do not have to answer to you as for what I require/want.

Do as you want. I'll do the same.

[Hambo]

No idea what you are referring to here. Clarify, please? Not sure if snark, humor, a combination of both, some inside joke here on the P-F that I missed...

Use your search bar.

[the Schwartz]

Use your search bar.

I have better ways to spend/waste my time. :)

[Glenn E. Meyer]

My point is that I repeatedly see some folks in many venues saying that they cannot comfortably carry conceal because of some factor as heat or body type. I just find that to be nonsensical. I ask no one to answer to me. However, I do comment on statements that have little validity.

You can't do anything comfortably at 103 degrees outside anyway. Go outside stark naked with just a 1911 strapped around your waist - that would still suck for thermal comfort. Put on the sun screen. Every once in awhile, someone forgets it at a match and is incinerated. A national trainer came here for a class and didn't pay attention. He would pass as a Red Lobster.

I took a class awhile ago and somehow missed a band around my off hand wrist. Came home and that band was glowing. Ouch!!

If you want to OC as it is your right, go ahead, if legal. Justifications based on some supposed practical reason are hard to find outside of law enforcement or similarly employed agents with lethal force responsibilities.

Yeah, I have OC'ed walking to the deer blinds and around the area on private lands. So what.

[HCM]

No idea what you are referring to here. Clarify, please? Not sure if snark, humor, a combination of both, some inside joke here on the P-F that I missed...

Doughnut operator is a former SWAT cop turned satirical youRube/social media personality.

One of his satirical formats is themed bingo cards. For example cop hater bingo:

42674

[the Schwartz]

My point is that I repeatedly see some folks in many venues saying that they cannot comfortably carry conceal because of some factor as heat or body type. I just find that to be nonsensical. I ask no one to answer to me. However, I do comment on statements that have little validity.

My personal comfort/physical requirements are simply not a matter requiring your validation, assent, or approval. You do you. I'll take care of being me.



Is there a point to this or is this a PSA for preventing skin cancer?


You can't do anything comfortably at 103 degrees outside anyway. Go outside stark naked with just a 1911 strapped around your waist - that would still suck for thermal comfort. Put on the sun screen. Every once in awhile, someone forgets it at a match and is incinerated. A national trainer came here for a class and didn't pay attention. He would pass as a Red Lobster. I took a class awhile ago and somehow missed a band around my off hand wrist. Came home and that band was glowing. Ouch!!





If you want to OC as it is your right, go ahead, if legal.

Thanks for your permission, but I've done just fine so far without it.

[the Schwartz]

Doughnut operator is a former SWAT cop turned satirical youRube/social media personality.

One of his satirical formats is themed bingo cards. For example cop hater bingo:

42674

Oh, wow, that is priceless! :D

Sorry that I missed that. Thanks for the image, HCM. Still laughing as I type this.

[Zincwarrior]

Doughnut operator is a former SWAT cop turned satirical youRube/social media personality.

One of his satirical formats is themed bingo cards. For example cop hater bingo:

42674
Wo wo wo. The Honda / Toyota stickie represents maybe the most number of vehicles acquired in the last 20 years there.
Also they are made in Texas and Tennessee so nuts to that! :cool:

[HCM]

Wo wo wo. The Honda / Toyota stickie represents maybe the most number of vehicles acquired in the last 20 years there.
Also they are made in Texas and Tennessee so nuts to that! :cool:

Yeah I would personally say, Honda Civic, Buick and Oldsmobile.

Double points if you find crown air fresheners and/or velvet Crown Royal bags in said vehicles.

[Jim Watson]

Here is a summary of the gun bills introduced just last week. Most anti, as you would expect.
Few if any will pass... this time. But it lets us know how Those People are thinking.



"Well folks the bills are rolling in again for the fall sessions and man oh man are there some doozies. Missouri people, take the time to read the nonsense coming out of your state capital/"

FL

H0117 would require anyone applying for a concealed carry license to undergo a psychological evaluation

H6009 would repeal state preemption of guns laws (allowing local governments to enact their own laws)

S0094 is a universal background check bill

S0134 would repeal state preemption of guns laws (allowing local governments to enact their own laws)

S0266 would require all firearms to be locked up in a home where 16 year old and younger children live

S0270 is a universal background check bill

MN

HF3 would make anyone convicted of harassment a prohibited person

SF8 would make anyone convicted of harassment a prohibited person

MO

HB10 would require any firearm other than a carry gun that is transported in a vehicle to be broken down and stored in a locked box or the trunk

HB11 is a universal background check bill and a firearm registry bill. Not only would all sales have to go through a gun dealer but within a year of taking effect every gun owner would be required to get a certificate for each gun they own

HB14 would make it illegal to conceal carry in a public library

HB18 would require gun dealers to verify the age of anyone buying a firearm, ammunition, or a firearm accessory

HB19 would create extreme risk protection orders and gun seizure warrants

HB2 would raise the age to buy an 'assault weapon' to 21

HB20 would make anyone on the terrorist watch list' or anyone that is associated with any group, whether organized or not, that participates in terrorist activities

HB23 is a universal background check bill

HB24 is an 'assault weapon' and high capacity magazine ban bill

HB25 would fine gun businesses that sell any magazine that can hold more then 10 rounds $100 per magazine sold

HB26 would literally outlaw the ownership of magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds with no grandfather clause

HB28 would create a mandatory firearm registry

HB3 would create extreme risk protection orders

HB4 would use taxpayer money to do a study on gun violence

HB5 would create extreme risk protection orders

HB6 would make it a crime to store a firearm where a child may access it

HB7 would require all ammunition sales to go through a licensed dealer

HB9 would repeal state preemption of local firearm laws

HCR1 is a resolution asking congress to repeal the firearm manufacturers protection act

HJR1 is a resolution calling for changes to the state constitution to require universal background checks on all firearm sales and to repeal constitutional carry

NY

A08575 would make people prohibited from buying firearms prohibited from buying ammunition (which means they will have background checks for ammunition purchases)

S06716 would outlaw unfinished receivers

PA

HB303 would remove restrictions on transporting a firearm to allow anyone to transport a firearm to any place it is legal to have as long as the firearm is unloaded and ammunition is not readily accessible

WI

AB431 would add restrictions to the sale of firearms by dealers

AB446 would add a tax of .5% to all firearms to be used for victims of 'gun violence'

https://amgoa.org/Proposed-State-Gun-Legislation

US Congress

HB4255 would require gun manufacturers to add a second 'hidden' serial number on firearms, it would also require ATF to hold background check data for 180 days as well as to eliminate the limitations on 'gun trace' data

This legislation requires the release of certain records by the Department of Defense of the legality to own firearm status which is already required under Federal law.

HB4271 would require gun manufacturers to add a suicide prevention label to all firearms or the boxes they come in

HR555 requests the senate to vote on HR8 (universal background checks) which passed the house in the Spring

SB2449 would require a federal license to own a firearm

https://amgoa.org/Proposed-Federal-Gun-Legislation

[Trooper224]

You (generalizing here, not pointing fingers) want to OC because it's too hot? You're a pussy. Yes, that's what I said....you.....are....a....pussy.

I just got home and it's 92 degrees today, with 75% humidity. This hasn't actually been a terribly hot summer for Kansas, although it's lasting a bit longer than usual. I've spent time outdoors when it was 100 degrees in the shade, wearing what I did today: a pair of cotton trousers an untucked lightweight shirt, with a pair of Van's. I wasn't any more, or less, comfortable than I would have been wearing cargo shorts and a t-shirt. Perhaps more so, since I didn't have the sun beating down on large portions of my exposed skin. My carry gun? A Beretta 92, as it has been for the last five years, 365. Carried IWB in other areas of the country that make this place look like Alaska in February.

Glen's right, there's no way to be comfortable in high summer no matter what you wear. OCing your gatt isn't going to improve your comfort level. In truth, carrying a gun isn't comfortable, period. After doing it for thirty years and in all manners of carry, all I can say is this: it's a general pain in the ass. If comfort is your primary concern, forget OC, IWB or any other carry method. Just leave the gun at home and invest in Gold Bond powder and Egyptian cotton underwear with a thousand thread count. That will be of more benefit to the collective than having one more OCing d-bag out there.

[Baldanders]

No idea what you are referring to here. Clarify, please? Not sure if snark, humor, a combination of both, some inside joke here on the P-F that I missed...

YouTube LE guy. Has a game called "sovereign citizen bingo."

I haven't watched him much. I watch "Mike the Cop." Or any video with LE dealing with sovereign citizens in a violent manner (after they have exhausted all non-violent options, naturally).

[the Schwartz]

(generalizing here, not pointing fingers)

Sure you are. (pointing fingers) Bet you're lots of fun to be around, too.


You (generalizing here, not pointing fingers) want to OC because it's too hot? You're a pussy. Yes, that's what I said....you.....are....a....pussy.

I just got home and it's 92 degrees today, with 75% humidity. This hasn't actually been a terribly hot summer for Kansas, although it's lasting a bit longer than usual. I've spent time outdoors when it was 100 degrees in the shade, wearing what I did today: a pair of cotton trousers an untucked lightweight shirt, with a pair of Van's. I wasn't any more, or less, comfortable than I would have been wearing cargo shorts and a t-shirt. Perhaps more so, since I didn't have the sun beating down on large portions of my exposed skin. My carry gun? A Beretta 92, as it has been for the last five years, 365. Carried IWB in other areas of the country that make this place look like Alaska in February.

Chest-thumping and (not very inventive) name-calling? Well, that's just another example of the lowest common denominator when you can't engage in a mature, intelligent debate.

Let's try to keep it civil here, shall we?

[the Schwartz]

YouTube LE guy. Has a game called "sovereign citizen bingo."

I haven't watched him much. I watch "Mike the Cop." Or any video with LE dealing with sovereign citizens in a violent manner (after they have exhausted all non-violent options, naturally).

Thanks, Baldanders, I'll have to look that one up, too.

[Zincwarrior]

Thanks, Baldanders, I'll have to look that one up, too.
They can be quite humorous. The Sovereign Citizen ones seem to go from a simple traffic ticket / hey your lights out to a major ordeal that leads to their arrest.

[blues]

They can be quite humorous. The Sovereign Citizen ones seem to go from a simple traffic ticket / hey your lights out to a major ordeal that leads to their arrest.

Less is Moor.

[Yung]

For those who are in Arizona following this thread and have considered open carry of a handgun but have refrained due to social apprehensions, please know that our state 2A organization, the AzCDL, will be having its annual meeting of members in Tucson (alternates each year with Phoenix) this October. It will be their 14th meeting, and as with all previous ones there is an opportunity to enjoy the company of like-minded folks in a hotel dining hall while engaging in tasteful open carry of holstered handguns.

Your luncheon entree selections are:


Grilled flank steak with chimichurri, roasted sweet potatoes and grilled squash
Herb chicken, horseradish roasted potatoes, asparagus, wild mushrooms, cabernet reduction
Vegetarian Manicotti Romano with asiago sauce and fresh basil.

[Baldanders]

They can be quite humorous. The Sovereign Citizen ones seem to go from a simple traffic ticket / hey your lights out to a major ordeal that leads to their arrest.

Don't forget other fun bits like LE shattering a car window to pull surprised non-compliant dipshit from car, Miss Sovereign Citizen with the most annoying voice in the universe tries to school LE on fictional law while they stuff Mr. Sovereign Citizen into the back of a squad car......even better is the video where LE basically say "look, you can ramble on with your pseudolaw all day, I could care less, but if you try to pull off in this car wihout plates we will arrest you so fast you won't know what happened---oh, you want my supervisor? Sure thing." (20 min later--supervisor shows up.) "Hello idiot. We will arrest your ignorant ass if you move your car an inch. No, I'm not listening to your crap. I repeat, move the car and we arrest you. Have a nice day."

On a more serious note I would avoid the LE training video on dealing with sovereign citizens (I think it's from Texas) that's up on YouTube unless you feel like making your blood boil--especially if you are former or current LE. It has some rather disturbing dashcam footage of a traffic stop gone south and it's narrated by the father of one of the officers involved.

[Cypher]

They can be quite humorous. The Sovereign Citizen ones seem to go from a simple traffic ticket / hey your lights out to a major ordeal that leads to their arrest.

What blows my mind is when the Sovereign Citizens start talking about "This is the fifth time this month they broke my window." You would think the second or third time they had to replace the window they'd figure it out.

[CS Tactical]

There's a crosswalk here in town that's in the middle of a long 45mph street.
Traffic is required by law to yield to the pedestrian as soon as they enter the crosswalk.
I could probably get away with just strolling out into traffic on a bright sunny day (people might shake their head if I didn't exercise caution).
If I dressed up in all black and did it at 2am I'd get splatted within 2 or 3 steps from the curb and everybody would rightfully call me an idiot.
Both times I would be 100% in the clear legally.
Only one of those times would I have a good chance at surviving the encounter.
Dead right is still dead.

Open carry a holstered handgun in public and you might have a few people shake their heads.
Carry a rifle at the ready in public and not only are people going to call me an idiot, but I might end up splatted.
100% legal... but dead right is still dead.



Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should...

[blues]

What blows my mind is when the Sovereign Citizens start talking about "This is the fifth time this month they broke my window." You would think the second or third time they had to replace the window they'd figure it out.

He's obviously a rookie...

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/terminal01/2011/4/23/19/enhanced-buzz-11216-1303602183-2.jpg

[Cypher]

The citizens of Athens, Tennessee circa 1946? Rooftop Korean-Americans circa 1992? GJM flying his bush plane or Malamute living his best life in the mountains? All perfect examples of why open carry needs to be a right, and I think everyone here is onboard with that.

The "Open Carry Movement"? Not a good example of why it needs to be a right.

In the end, regardless of whether one thinks OC activists are attention whoring retards or "genuine", reason demands that we look at the impact that open carry activism has. This is the reason I asked my previous question, how many people were "normalized" to guns that day?


I wish there was a way to stop the one without infringing on the other.

I think I read it here but Open Carry Texas intends to protest Walmart's (and other retailers) decision by open carrying in their stores. I suspect that Walmart will respond by posting all of their stores against all carry

[Baldanders]

What blows my mind is when the Sovereign Citizens start talking about "This is the fifth time this month they broke my window." You would think the second or third time they had to replace the window they'd figure it out.

http://jokes.cc.com/funny-animal/m2rtxg/the-bear-hunter

LEO: "You're not in this for 'travelling' in your car, are you?"

I'm guessing they're defenestration fetishists?

[TGS]

I wish there was a way to stop the one without infringing on the other.

Well, that's the danger of liberty; some old dead dude with cool glasses said something about that back in the 18th century.

I wish we had a collective answer on how to keep the OC movement people from having our rights curtailed.

[Baldanders]

He's obviously a rookie...

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/terminal01/2011/4/23/19/enhanced-buzz-11216-1303602183-2.jpg

I gotta step my game up on the "protection from mind control" thing.

[txdpd]

There are genuine OCers out there; thanks for acknowledging that. Not all of them are "stupid", "retards" or "attention whores".

Nice to see that there are some here who see it as necessary right (appreciated your post #91 LL!) and can refrain from name-calling because they dislike the right (or law) or see it as some sort of an ''evil''.

It was sarcasm, my apologies for not being more clear about that.


I wish there was a way to stop the one without infringing on the other.

I think I read it here but Open Carry Texas intends to protest Walmart's (and other retailers) decision by open carrying in their stores. I suspect that Walmart will respond by posting all of their stores against all carry

What’s interesting in Texas, is where did they all go? They were like a raging case of the herpes. Now that open carry is a real thing, I’ve had to deal with one in two years. That’s some real commitment to the cause of open carry, once it’s legal, hardly anyone does it. Just in case anyone was wondering the commitment thing was sarcasm, since it’s pretty clear that once the hyper-confrontational brats lost the umbrella of the OC, they just moved on and torpedoed someone else’s movement.

[Joe in PNG]

For far too many people trying to be outrageous, it is never the cause they profess to be fighting for- it's all about the outrage.

[HCM]

What’s interesting in Texas, is where did they all go? They were like a raging case of the herpes. Now that open carry is a real thing, I’ve had to deal with one in two years. That’s some real commitment to the cause of open carry, once it’s legal, hardly anyone does it. Just in case anyone was wondering the commitment thing was sarcasm, since it’s pretty clear that once the hyper-confrontational brats lost the umbrella of the OC, they just moved on and torpedoed someone else’s movement.

The key to this is you now have OC that is legal withan LTC (License To Carry).

The requirements to obtain an LTC, which allows both open and concealed carry, are the same as the prior CHL (Concealed Handgun License).

IME many (most?) of the OCT people had misdemeanor criminal history which did not make them prohibited persons but did bar them from obtaining a CHL / LTC.

The OCT people thought they were going to get unrestricted / constitutional open carry but they were such assholes to the legislators including the pro-gun legislators they convinced them that people like them shouldn’t be carrying guns in public.. And Viola.... licensed open carry was born.

They also spawned a massive spike in places barring OC via 30.07 signs. I see 10 or more 30.07 signs for every 30.06 sign barring concealed carry.

[Borderland]

For far too many people trying to be outrageous, it is never the cause they profess to be fighting for- it's all about the outrage.

And social media posers.

[the Schwartz]

It was sarcasm, my apologies for not being more clear about that.

I'll assume that to be the case for all of your future content pending an appropriate disclaimer. :)

[Trooper224]

Sure you are. (pointing fingers) Bet you're lots of fun to be around, too.


Chest-thumping and (not very inventive) name-calling? Well, that's just another example of the lowest common denominator when you can't engage in a mature, intelligent debate.

Let's try to keep it civil here, shall we?

I don't practice chest thumping, either in cyberspace or in person. If you think I was pointing an interwebz finger at you I'm going to bust your self worth bubble: that's highly unlikely since I haven't read a single post of yours in this thread until now. Anyone who espouses open carry is neither mature or intelligent, so I don't see the sense in treating them to those attributes.

[JodyH]

This thread is regressing exactly as expected.
And someone a few pages back asked about engaging OC activists in a conversation.
Yea right... i'd rather repeatedly smack my big toe with a ball peen hammer.
Something, something wrestling pigs, something, the pig likes it.

[the Schwartz]

I don't practice chest thumping, either in cyberspace or in person. If you think I was pointing an interwebz finger at you I'm going to bust your self worth bubble: that's highly unlikely since I haven't read a single post of yours in this thread until now. Anyone who espouses open carry is neither mature or intelligent, so I don't see the sense in treating them to those attributes.

wow.

[the Schwartz]

For those who are in Arizona following this thread and have considered open carry of a handgun but have refrained due to social apprehensions, please know that our state 2A organization, the AzCDL, will be having its annual meeting of members in Tucson (alternates each year with Phoenix) this October. It will be their 14th meeting, and as with all previous ones there is an opportunity to enjoy the company of like-minded folks in a hotel dining hall while engaging in tasteful open carry of holstered handguns.

Your luncheon entree selections are:

Kinda short notice for me this year (schedule is mine enemy), but maybe next year I can get out there and visit. Been looking for an excuse to get ''out west''. :)

[Jeff22]

Once in a while I come upon a news story about some open carry fool being disarmed.

I wish I had the foresight to assemble a repository of those articles for reference purposes.

My state finally got CCW for private citizens late in 2011. Open carry wasn't particularly common before then (except for the occasional public demonstration at the Capitol) and I think I've only seen two or three people OC in the years since (At a Gander Mountain at the gun counter)

[LittleLebowski]

And...we are done.