Colt Halts Production of Long Guns for the Retail Market

[Amp]

Firearms distributer RSR Group has sent an email blast to their retail customers announcing that Colt will no longer produce long guns for the retail market.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/colt-halts-sales-of-long-guns-to-the-retail-market/

[RoyGBiv]

Thanks for the heads up. I've been waffling about buying a 6920 for a while... guess I'll be getting that done quick.

[RevolverRob]

And just like that Colts increased in price.

If there is one thing Colt has done well for collectors - it’s make guns more valuable.

I predict by end of week, there will be $1000 6920s on ARFcom and within a month $12-1500

[blues]

And just like that Colts increased in price.

If there is one thing Colt has done well for collectors - it’s make guns more valuable.

I predict by end of week, there will be $1000 6920s on ARFcom and within a month $12-1500

I wouldn't be buying one for that very reason alone, on top of that it's not a decision I'd want to reward. There are other options available from companies not abandoning the market.

[Guerrero]

And just like that Colts increased in price.

If there is one thing Colt has done well for collectors - it’s make guns more valuable.

I predict by end of week, there will be $1000 6920s on ARFcom and within a month $12-1500

That kind of money makes BCM look mighty good.

To the OP, sorry to see them drop out of the civilian market . On the other hand, mismanaged companies should be free to die.

[Totem Polar]

https://drjudithorloff.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Deja-Vu-wide.jpg

[Casual Friday]

If the prices go full retard, I'll sell the two 6920s I have put aside for my kids in a heartbeat and replace them with BCM carbines and pocket the rest. My 6933 won't be going anywhere though.

[HCountyGuy]

I’ve been putting off getting a 6920, might have to explain to the wife it’s more of an urgency.

In the event 6920s become ridiculously expensive, what’s a viable alternative in the same price range?

[Guerrero]

I’ve been putting off getting a 6920, might have to explain to the wife it’s more of an urgency.

In the event 6920s become ridiculously expensive, what’s a viable alternative in the same price range?

BCM RECCE for a couple hundred more.

[Poconnor]

I guess colt will be going out of business next week.

[TAZ]

Thanks for the heads up. I've been waffling about buying a 6920 for a while... guess I'll be getting that done quick.

Why would you want to reward a company who conveniently abandons civilian customers at a time when there is focused political pressure on any entity out there to limit civilian access to weapons?

Seems awful lot like playing both sides of the isle. Cut off civilians from those dreaded weapons of war with a dog ate my homework excuse. But then I’m a cynical asshole lots of times.

Why not go buy from a company that doesn’t do that yet still offers a quality product? BCM, Sionics... make decent guns

[pangloss]

Coincidentally, I ordered two "no furniture" 6920s over the weekend for $725 each. They shipped yesterday. These will be set aside for my daughters. Prices of complete rifles seemed a bit higher than the last time I checked. If I'd had only one daughter, I would have bought a BCM. If the 6920 prices really go up, I'd be happy to sells these and get two BCMs!

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[HCountyGuy]

What about an M&P Sport II? I know Chuck Haggard gave the Sport a fairly favorable review a while back.

I know that’s going a cheaper route. I’d willingly buy BCM were it in the budget presently.

[spinmove_]

I wouldn't be buying one for that very reason alone, on top of that it's not a decision I'd want to reward. There are other options available from companies not abandoning the market.

Agreed. I wasn’t looking at buying another AR anytime soon, but if I suddenly was now and knew this, I’d be immediately looking at a BCM or SoLGW and completely ignoring Colts.


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[blues]

Agreed. I wasn’t looking at buying another AR anytime soon, but if I suddenly was now and knew this, I’d be immediately looking at a BCM or SoLGW and completely ignoring Colts.


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I only own one AR...an M&P15 TS. It's been a good carbine for me, and I've heard good things from LEOs online who have had one as their issued patrol rifle. (And one Navy type.)

[Guinnessman]

I have a NIB un-fired 6720 that may hit a classified if the prices are right.:cool:

[spinmove_]

I only own one AR...an M&P15 TS. It's been a good carbine for me, and I've heard good things from LEOs online who have had one as their issued patrol rifle. (And one Navy type.)

I’m sure it’s a great rifle. A buddy of mine has a similar model and loves his. But with S&W having issues shipping new revolvers without issues and locks and semi-auto pistols with dubious accuracy, why reward questionable decision making when there are so many other good AR options in that sea?


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[blues]

I’m sure it’s a great rifle. A buddy of mine has a similar model and loves his. But with S&W having issues shipping new revolvers without issues and locks and semi-auto pistols with dubious accuracy, why reward questionable decision making when there are so many other good AR options in that sea?


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My purchase predated my awareness of the issues at S&W, so who knows which way I'd have jumped had I known?. That said, when I did have a small issue, they made it right and had it back to me within a week, door to door.

Pretty much all you can ask since none of the manufacturers, at least in my reading, have an unblemished track record.

Anyway, it seems to me that the timing of Colt's decision is questionable at best. I'll be doing business with companies not inclined to depart the field at the first sign of turbulence.

[BehindBlueI's]

What about an M&P Sport II? I know Chuck Haggard gave the Sport a fairly favorable review a while back.

I know that’s going a cheaper route. I’d willingly buy BCM were it in the budget presently.

We have quite a few officers using them as personally owned rifles and range reports have been very good. Each POW has to be inspected by the range armorer prior to the officer being allowed to qualify with it and reports for QC have been positive.

I have the upper end S&W and have been quite satisfied with it. I'm shooting maybe 4k rounds a year, tops, and am unlikely to wear out rifle any time soon.

[BillSWPA]

I have been a big fan of Colt products since I first started shooting. Colt's decision has now changed that. There is nothing they make that I cannot get from another source that doesn't consider me unworthy to own it.

[Dan_S]

I have been a big fan of Colt products since I first started shooting. Colt's decision has now changed that. There is nothing they make that I cannot get from another source that doesn't consider me unworthy to own it.

This is blown waaaaay out of proportion.

Colt is pursuing other contracts, and is refocusing manufacturing capacity towards that end.

[JSGlock34]

Colt's cred was based around Mil-Spec components...I'd look to DD and Geissele now.

[BillSWPA]

This is blown waaaaay out of proportion.

Colt is pursuing other contracts, and is refocusing manufacturing capacity towards that end.

That is contrary to the link in the original post. Do you have other information?

[Robinson]

That is contrary to the link in the original post. Do you have other information?

I don't know what the true motivation at Colt is, but the linked article contains a communication right at the top where that is stated as the reason.

Of course, I don't read their stuff anyway so I wouldn't base my view on what they print.

[Totem Polar]

This is blown waaaaay out of proportion.

Colt is pursuing other contracts, and is refocusing manufacturing capacity towards that end.

I dunno... I swear I’ve heard this exact same song before, and the lyrics ended with "bankruptcy."

My take:

[BillSWPA]

I don't know what the true motivation at Colt is, but the linked article contains a communication right at the top where that is stated as the reason.

Of course, I don't read their stuff anyway so I wouldn't base my view on what they print.

The article also correctly pointed out that there was no apparent reason why this was necessary. If they don't actually have the contracts, then there is no reason why they can't keep making guns for the civilian market. If they actually regain a contract that requires 100% of their capacity, then I would understand.

[Dan_S]

That is contrary to the link in the original post. Do you have other information?

Just reading what the email from RSR says...




Everything, including the email from RSR itself, is being bent way beyond what reason would dictate, unless one is trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

[BillSWPA]

Just reading what the email from RSR says...




Everything, including the email from RSR itself, is being bent way beyond what reason would dictate, unless one is trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

The article was 100% correct in pointing out that ending civilian sales does not help them in acquiring these contracts. IF they actually had the contracts and needed 100% of their capacity, I would understand. Unless and until that happens, ending civilian sales does not help them in any way.

The only reason they made that statement is to virtue-signal to the liberals while pretending to us that they are not virtue-signaling to the liberals.

[Robinson]

The article also correctly pointed out that there was no apparent reason why this was necessary. If they don't actually have the contracts, then there is no reason why they can't keep making guns for the civilian market. If they actually regain a contract that requires 100% of their capacity, then I would understand.

Yeah, Colt made a statement but taking them at their word might not be wise based on decisions their management team has made in the past. From what I understand, Colt's rifles are pretty decent -- but once again Colt management makes a decision that will only alienate buyers and hurt their business. Sort of like how they make a lot of decent 1911s but can't be arsed to check the extractor tension on the 9mm ones. Dumb management.

[Dan_S]

The article was 100% correct in pointing out that ending civilian sales does not help them in acquiring these contracts. IF they actually had the contracts and needed 100% of their capacity, I would understand. Unless and until that happens, ending civilian sales does not help them in any way.

The only reason they made that statement is to virtue-signal to the liberals while pretending to us that they are not virtue-signaling to the liberals.

And you’d be wrong if you think you know, any more than RSR does, as to what Colt has in the works.

Someone at RSR got a little carried away, TTAG ran with it, and now the internet is ablaze with political yammering.


I’d suggest that ‘pursuing’ military contracts doesn’t exactly mean what you’re taking it to mean, and...well, that this is simply *not* a big deal.

[BillSWPA]

And you’d be wrong if you think you know, any more than RSR does, as to what Colt has in the works.

Someone at RSR got a little carried away, TTAG ran with it, and now the internet is ablaze with political yammering.


I’d suggest that ‘pursuing’ military contracts doesn’t exactly mean what you’re taking it to mean, and...well, that this is simply *not* a big deal.

The exact words in the release were "regaining" military contracts, which seems to indicate that they don't actually have them yet.

Please explain how ceasing civilian sales helps them regain those contracts.

[BehindBlueI's]

Didn't Colt do the same thing in 1989?

And hasn't their management made it very plain they geared their rifle business toward large military contracts vs private distributors? Cited as one of the reasons leading to bankruptcy?

Who's surprised?

[Hambo]

And you’d be wrong if you think you know, any more than RSR does, as to what Colt has in the works.


Based on Colt's performance over the last two decades, whatever they have in the works is fucked up. How they've remained this long is a mystery to me.


I’d suggest that ‘pursuing’ military contracts doesn’t exactly mean what you’re taking it to mean, and...well, that this is simply *not* a big deal.

The talk is all about banning weapons of war, and then Colt stops selling AR15s. 2+2=4, amigo. Even if their intentions were pure, they just handed anti-gunners a PR win we can ill afford. So, yeah, fuck Colt.

[Tokarev]

Fake news according to what I have seen on another board.

Apparently a sales rep, or someone in a similar position, heard that Colt was planning to curtail civilian shipments in an effort to fulfill some outstanding government contracts. This person overreacted and sent out an email.

Even if true it doesn't really change anything. Colt's not the only game in town anymore.

[RevolverRob]

Fake news according to what I have seen on another board.

Apparently a sales rep, or someone in a similar position, heard that Colt was planning to curtail civilian shipments in an effort to fulfill some outstanding government contracts. This person overreacted and sent out an email.

Even if true it doesn't really change anything. Colt's not the only game in town anymore.

I hope that is actually the case.

My frustration with Colt over the past decade has been inconsistent quantity of AR15s available to civilians.

I do find it hard to believe that Colt is kowtowing to completely unknown/non-existent regulations. Particularly, when they have just spun up and sold a bunch of guns to legally armed citizens in the form of the new Cobra series of guns.

[txdpd]

I do find it hard to believe that Colt is kowtowing to completely unknown/non-existent regulations. Particularly, when they have just spun up and sold a bunch of guns to legally armed citizens in the form of the new Cobra series of guns.

If it is true I think a more likely explanation is little to no profit margin in a soft market. Their prices and sales are down and they are competing against glut of cheap guns.

If Colt prices go up at this point it’ll be retailers, not the wholesalers or Colt that will see the extra profit.

[rob_s]

That is contrary to the link in the original post. Do you have other information?

It's really not.

https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Screen-Shot-2019-09-11-at-9.35.06-AM.png

[Totem Polar]

Didn't Colt do the same thing in 1989?

And hasn't their management made it very plain they geared their rifle business toward large military contracts vs private distributors? Cited as one of the reasons leading to bankruptcy?

Who's surprised?

QFT

[Stephanie B]

Firearms distributer RSR Group has sent an email blast to their retail customers announcing that Colt will no longer produce long guns for the retail market.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/colt-halts-sales-of-long-guns-to-the-retail-market/

Well, guess I'm no longer interested in any of the iterations of the Colt Cobra.

They are free not sell some of their legal products to civilians. I'm free to not buy any of their crap. So Colt has saved me money. I'll look for a newish Model 66 and do what 03RN did to his.

[Kram]

I’ve been putting off getting a 6920, might have to explain to the wife it’s more of an urgency.

In the event 6920s become ridiculously expensive, what’s a viable alternative in the same price range?

https://www.centurionarms.com

[HCM]

What about an M&P Sport II? I know Chuck Haggard gave the Sport a fairly favorable review a while back.

I know that’s going a cheaper route. I’d willingly buy BCM were it in the budget presently.

The sport II is ok for a hobby gun- the S&W M&P line are more equivalent to the Colts.

[03RN]

Well, guess I'm no longer interested in any of the iterations of the Colt Cobra.

They are free not sell some of their legal products to civilians. I'm free to not buy any of their crap. So Colt has saved me money. I'll look for a newish Model 66 and do what 03RN did to his.

Politics notwithstanding
30rds at 25 yards
42454

https://youtu.be/UE8lOJbI-Dg

https://youtu.be/QjQhh6w9HoI

[fly out]

I have no love for (the current management at) Colt, but I would prefer to see something that Colt actually said. I think I'm current with this thread, and all I've seen is the distro email? Is there something more that I overlooked?

[Casual Friday]

It's a case of someone at RSR jumping to conclusions, sending a poorly thought out email, and getting fired for his efforts.

[GardoneVT]

Let’s take a step back here.

Colt is a company, not a political action organization. Exiting the civilian market for ARs makes managerial sense, especially if their manufacturing capacity is limited. As others have observed Colt is competing in a very saturated market. With high quality competitors and high consumer price sensitivity, making rifles for civilian customer could just plain be unprofitable. If they’ve got a line on a government contract the profit margin would be better- thus, reserve the capacity for the higher dollar customer.

No big conspiracy from where I sit.

[5pins]

It doesn't make any sense to stop making and selling something in the hopes of getting a contract to make and sell something.


Or maybe they are just trying to get in good with New Jersey.


New Jersey pressures gun manufacturers and retailers to adopt safety measures or lose state business.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/10/us/new-jersey-signs-order-to-prevent-gun-violence/index.html


New Jersey is offering gun manufacturers and retailers two options: Either follow state standards for preventing guns from falling into the wrong hands or lose the state's business.

[Sigfan26]

It's a case of someone at RSR jumping to conclusions, sending a poorly thought out email, and getting fired for his efforts.

That sounds about right


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[hufnagel]

Not sure what to think, as there's not enough data yet. But the timing sure does smell funny.
I've been starting to sniff around the idea of picking up a couple guns before the end of the year; looks like the Colt Competition handguns are getting pushed down the list for the time being. Sucks too as the 10 or so brands/models I 'fingered that one time, the Colts I liked the best.

[TheNewbie]

The sport II is ok for a hobby gun- the S&W M&P line are more equivalent to the Colts.



Do the sports I and II not hold up to serious use?

[HCM]

Do the sports I and II not hold up to serious use?

In general, no, but that is not what they are intended for.

Individual examples might but they are not intended or guaranteed to. There is a reason S&W makes the M&P line and markets it to LE.

The original Sports with the 1/8 barrels were a better value as it had the same barrel as some of the higher end M&P line. But even then the asssembly, BCG, QC checks are not the same as the M&P line.

The ding on the M&P line for serious use is some of the guns are 1/9 twist and the higher end ones are 1/9. Honestly for most 50-100 yard cop use it’s fine.

Sorry there is no free lunch.

BCM, SOLGW and Sionics are all good options but for the $$$ the new Geissle “Super Duty” LE rifle would be my choice.

[Mike C]

for the $$$ the new Geissle “Super Duty” LE rifle would be my choice.

Wow that is a freaking steal. Absolutely awesome they are doing that for LE.

[blues]

IThere is a reason S&W makes the M&P line and markets it to LE.


The ding on the M&P line for serious use is some of the guns are 1/9 twist and the higher end ones are 1/9. Honestly for most 50-100 yard cop use it’s fine.



My M&P15 TS is 1/7 twist. I think that's what you intended to type for one of the above...

[RevolverRob]

Guys, let's remember this news "story" broke on The Truth About Guns - the gun media Equivalent of the New York Post.

[Mark D]

I was browsing Brownells the other day and noticed they had FN uppers for about the same money as the Colt uppers. Are the FN ARs still considered good to go?

[Dan_S]

Guys, let's remember this news "story" broke on The Truth About Guns - the gun media Equivalent of the New York Post.

Don’t point out such obvious things....and try to apply sanity and logic...



When it comes out that this is totally concocted or whatever....I’d like to be the fly on the wall waiting to see all the anti-Colt crowd here eating their words.

[Lex Luthier]

Guys, let's remember this news "story" broke on The Truth About Guns - the gun media Equivalent of the New York Post.

Plus they tried to mess around with Tam about copyright.
I still won't give 'em any respect over that.

[Spartan1980]

In general, no, but that is not what they are intended for.

Individual examples might but they are not intended or guaranteed to. There is a reason S&W makes the M&P line and markets it to LE.

The original Sports with the 1/8 barrels were a better value as it had the same barrel as some of the higher end M&P line. But even then the asssembly, BCG, QC checks are not the same as the M&P line.

The ding on the M&P line for serious use is some of the guns are 1/9 twist and the higher end ones are 1/9. Honestly for most 50-100 yard cop use it’s fine.

Sorry there is no free lunch.

BCM, SOLGW and Sionics are all good options but for the $$$ the new Geissle “Super Duty” LE rifle would be my choice.


My M&P15 TS is 1/7 twist. I think that's what you intended to type for one of the above...

I have one of the early M&P15 1-9 rifles and it's a 1 MOA rifle with Federal M193 and my Hornady 55 FMJBT handloads. It's my goto rifle. Never an issue and it'll ping an MGM flasher at 300 yards all day long. I have no need to stretch it further with heavy LR bullets. My only bitch is the magwell doesn't want to take a Pmag unless you pound it in. About 5 strokes with a file on the bevel would fix that, but I'm lazy and have the metal mags that came with it which run flawlessly.

[blues]

I have one of the early M&P15 1-9 rifles and it's a 1 MOA rifle with Federal M193 and my Hornady 55 FMJBT handloads. It's my goto rifle. Never an issue and it'll ping an MGM flasher at 300 yards all day long. I have no need to stretch it further with heavy LR bullets. My only bitch is the magwell doesn't want to take a Pmag unless you pound it in. About 5 strokes with a file on the bevel would fix that, but I'm lazy and have the metal mags that came with it which run flawlessly.

I wasn't suggesting, or attempting to suggest which twist rate is or was superior. Simply that HCM probably meant to include 1/7 in his post above rather than repeat 1/9 twice.

My rifle came with a Gen2 PMAG so I simply purchased a bunch of same since I know they work with it.

[RevolverRob]

Don’t point out such obvious things....and try to apply sanity and logic...

I know you didn't intend to, but you sound like my wife right now,

"Rob, don't go making sense...people don't like it when you make sense."

She's right, that's usually what gets me into trouble.

[blues]

I know you didn't intend to, but you sound like my wife right now,

"Rob, don't go making sense...people don't like it when you make sense."

She's right, that's usually what gets me into trouble.

Hmmm...I haven't found that to be the case hereabouts. ;)

[HCM]

I have one of the early M&P15 1-9 rifles and it's a 1 MOA rifle with Federal M193 and my Hornady 55 FMJBT handloads. It's my goto rifle. Never an issue and it'll ping an MGM flasher at 300 yards all day long. I have no need to stretch it further with heavy LR bullets. My only bitch is the magwell doesn't want to take a Pmag unless you pound it in. About 5 strokes with a file on the bevel would fix that, but I'm lazy and have the metal mags that came with it which run flawlessly.

I have one of those too. Bought it on the recommendation of Pat Rogers. Magpul E mags and the Gen 3 PMAGs should work. Mine was a T model though I replaced the 10” quad rail with a 13” Troy Alpha VTAC.

[Spartan1980]

I wasn't suggesting, or attempting to suggest which twist rate is or was superior. Simply that HCM probably meant to include 1/7 in his post above rather than repeat 1/9 twice.

My rifle came with a Gen2 PMAG so I simply purchased a bunch of same since I know they work with it.

Well FWIW, I'd rather have a 1-7 just for the capability of shooting heavys. But I really think the twist rate thing is overblown. If one needs to reach out and hit hard out past my rifle's capability, a different rifle in a bigger caliber is probably the better plan.

And my rifle is an early one. I think they got some complaints and beveled the magwell heavier/deeper post haste in their production. I don't think a huge number got out into the wild before they "fixed" them.

[Bucky]

Colt should cherish civilian sales based on the fact they get a price bump for their products just based on the name.

[rob_s]

Colt should cherish civilian sales based on the fact they get a price bump for their products just based on the name.

I would say that in today's market the price bump is far more often with their competitor's simply by claiming that shooting some unicorn jizz on their gun and making a bunch of proprietary parts makes them "better than Colt".

[BillSWPA]

Don’t point out such obvious things....and try to apply sanity and logic...



When it comes out that this is totally concocted or whatever....I’d like to be the fly on the wall waiting to see all the anti-Colt crowd here eating their words.

As I said in my initial post in this thread, I have been a Colt fan for a long time. I would be happy if this is wrong and I can put Colt back on my list of options. We will hopefully learn whether or not that is the case.


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[Cory]

I really want to make a clone of my issued M4 at some point, and a Colt 6920 is pretty much the base rifle to get that started.

Realistically, there are some defensive things to get in order before that. It will likely be years before I get started on that project. If Colt is no longer making rifles when I get around to it that would really, really suck.

There is a very large an active "clone" market amongst gun owners. People who seek to very accurately mimic military rifles (albeit usually semiauto). Colt rifles are understandably very popular for this. USGI M4s, M4A1s, M16A4, MK18, CQBRs and Mk12 Mod0, Mod1, ModH… and a lot of others... all normally based on Colts.

-Cory

[Borderland]

I have one of the early M&P15 1-9 rifles and it's a 1 MOA rifle with Federal M193 and my Hornady 55 FMJBT handloads. It's my goto rifle. Never an issue and it'll ping an MGM flasher at 300 yards all day long. I have no need to stretch it further with heavy LR bullets. My only bitch is the magwell doesn't want to take a Pmag unless you pound it in. About 5 strokes with a file on the bevel would fix that, but I'm lazy and have the metal mags that came with it which run flawlessly.


I don't understand the need for 1/7 twist. Those barrels require heavier bullets for best accuracy. Of course they will shoot 55 gr bullets but I've seen less than desirable accuracy using those lighter bullets.

What I see at the range is people with 1/7 barrels using 55gr ammo and they can't figure out why their groups are so bad. It's because those barrels were designed for 77gr bullets. They don't want to pay the high prices for that ammo so they just piss and moan about the rifles being a POS.

1/9 twist is ideal for what most people use a carbine for, excepting the military of course. 55gr ammo and bullets are cheap. My 1/9 mini-14 loves 55gr bullets.

[TCinVA]

Guys, let's remember this news "story" broke on The Truth About Guns - the gun media Equivalent of the New York Post.

Or, frankly, the New York Times.

Or MSNBC.

Same same.

Expect to see this claim walked back today as Colt or RSR "clarifies" things.

Colt isn't leaving the civilian market. They're halting production for the civilian market temporarily because they have time sensitive contract work that needs more personnel and resources.

[Tokarev]

Or, frankly, the New York Times.

Or MSNBC.

Same same.

Expect to see this claim walked back today as Colt or RSR "clarifies" things.

Colt isn't leaving the civilian market. They're halting production for the civilian market temporarily because they have time sensitive contract work that needs more personnel and resources.

Here's what TTAG has posted for an update:

UPDATE: TTAG was able to speak directly with Paul Spitale, Senior Vice President of Colt’s commercial business line. He confirmed the above. Colt has halted production of its commercial long guns lines and is focusing its manufacturing and sales on 1911s and revolvers.

He also stressed that Colt has about 110 days of long gun inventory in its distribution network and if market conditions change down the road, they could revisit this decision.

[farscott]

My inner cynic says that this is Colt's way of getting rid of some inventory. There is no better way to sell guns than to tell gun owners the guns will no longer be sold to private individuals.

[TCinVA]

Here's what TTAG has posted for an update:

UPDATE: TTAG was able to speak directly with Paul Spitale, Senior Vice President of Colt’s commercial business line. He confirmed the above. Colt has halted production of its commercial long guns lines and is focusing its manufacturing and sales on 1911s and revolvers.

He also stressed that Colt has about 110 days of long gun inventory in its distribution network and if market conditions change down the road, they could revisit this decision.

Well, that's one way for TTAG to avoid actually admitting they got it wrong.

[Mike C]

My inner cynic says that this is Colt's way of getting rid of some inventory. There is no better way to sell guns than to tell gun owners the guns will no longer be sold to private individuals.

Based on past behavior and decisions I don't think they're that smart.

[rcbusmc24]

There is a very large an active "clone" market amongst gun owners. People who seek to very accurately mimic military rifles (albeit usually semiauto). Colt rifles are understandably very popular for this. USGI M4s, M4A1s, M16A4, MK18, CQBRs and Mk12 Mod0, Mod1, ModH… and a lot of others... all normally based on Colts.

-Cory

Personal Rant starting.....

I want to say first and wholeheartedly that my vitriol is in no way, shape or form directed at you Cory but ........

....the only group of people I tend to collectively despise more than antigunners are friggin klone kiddies.... Cloning started as a way to use us old obsolete parts that you happened to have laying around in the morning bottom of your or your buddies parts bin....and then suddenly a bunch of assholes did asshole things and went full retard with it and are now paying stupid money for mostly stolen government property..... Nothing makes me vicariously happier than seeing another one of those Yahoo's caught by CID or NCIS and thrown in jail..... And believe me I see more than my fair share of them around Camp Lejuene... Many of them are current mil as well..... Which doublely blows my mind. Why you ask? Do not fret I'll explain below.

It's sad really.... Because most of them seem to think nothing of stealing shit from their supposed brothers armories to support their hobby..... And try to justify it by saying they paid taxes too...... Not only that, but they are putting their careers at risk over AR parts..... really?!!! It ain't that serious bro. You really want that special rifle... Go to selection and they will give you one....

I get that many consider cloning the new version of milsurp collecting but while some of it may be oldeparts that are no longer in service, much of those parts are still in use and most of it is stolen from armsrooms.... And DRMO DOES NOT SELL GUNS, GUN PARTS OR OPTICS IN A USEABLE CONDITION ON TO THE CIVILIAN MARKET....

When I have guys in my rifle company rocking BUIS as their primary day sights due to us having a shortage of RCO's or some of my dudes being without a working PEQ due to shit breaking and going WIR without a inbound replacement and then I see obviously stolen shit on tacswap et al..... It make me want to throat punch people....

Rant over....

[CWM11B]

rcbusmc24:Truth. Preach on brother.

[TGS]

There is a very large an active "clone" market amongst gun owners. People who seek to very accurately mimic military rifles (albeit usually semiauto). Colt rifles are understandably very popular for this. USGI M4s, M4A1s, M16A4, MK18, CQBRs and Mk12 Mod0, Mod1, ModH… and a lot of others... all normally based on Colts.

-Cory

Personal Rant starting.....

I want to say first and wholeheartedly that my vitriol is in no way, shape or form directed at you Cory but ........

....the only group of people I tend to collectively despise more than antigunners are friggin klone kiddies.... Cloning started as a way to use us old obsolete parts that you happened to have laying around in the morning bottom of your or your buddies parts bin....and then suddenly a bunch of assholes did asshole things and went full retard with it and are now paying stupid money for mostly stolen government property..... Nothing makes me vicariously happier than seeing another one of those Yahoo's caught by CID or NCIS and thrown in jail..... And believe me I see more than my fair share of them around Camp Lejuene... Many of them are current mil as well..... Which doublely blows my mind. Why you ask? Do not fret I'll explain below.

It's sad really.... Because most of them seem to think nothing of stealing shit from their supposed brothers armories to support their hobby..... And try to justify it by saying they paid taxes too...... Not only that, but they are putting their careers at risk over AR parts..... really?!!! It ain't that serious bro. You really want that special rifle... Go to selection and they will give you one....

I get that many consider cloning the new version of milsurp collecting but while some of it may be oldeparts that are no longer in service, much of those parts are still in use and most of it is stolen from armsrooms.... And DRMO DOES NOT SELL GUNS, GUN PARTS OR OPTICS IN A USEABLE CONDITION ON TO THE CIVILIAN MARKET....

When I have guys in my rifle company rocking BUIS as their primary day sights due to us having a shortage of RCO's or some of my dudes being without a working PEQ due to shit breaking and going WIR without a inbound replacement and then I see obviously stolen shit on tacswap et al..... It make me want to throat punch people....

Rant over....

So if a person builds a clone AR they're supporting arms trafficking and theft from our military?

Can't even go to a generic Shitty Wok for Chinese food without paying money into human trafficking syndicates, and now we can't build clone ARs or we're basically the Muj.

Shit. Can't do anything fun these days.

[Mike C]

Couldn't agree more with the above. That being said I just got off the phone with Colt. Yes I called, (mainly to ask if there was any way to get a CM 762 barrel in .308/7.62 outside the grey market) no was the answer. Seems like rumors are true and production for the, "foreseeable future" (CS reps words not mine) has been stopped on long guns. They don't sell parts direct I was told, (which I knew) but I wanted to try to locate an upper or barrel for the CM7.62 because I generally like their stuff, and the fact that 6.5CM barrels don't live long enough for my tastes necessitates having a .308/7.62 barrel. Plus I have tons of .308 crap laying around.

Man I'm sick of companies just dropping support or dropping sales for products because of the way the wind might be blowing politically or otherwise. This is some crap right out of Sigs playbook for dropping support and if it's to pander to the pussification of America as DD did when it was convenient I'm done. I am trying to withhold judgement but I'm not sure how long that may last. At this point I'm about to start searching for the most Pro 2A mfg with a solid rep buy a few rifles from them and deregister/sell my crap with Colts name on it. Rant off.

[BehindBlueI's]

When it comes out that this is totally concocted or whatever....I’d like to be the fly on the wall waiting to see all the anti-Colt crowd here eating their words.

I'm not pro- or anti- Colt. I'm not a fan of their management over the years though. I can see them abandoning ARs to focus on my profitable items, I can see them scaling back, I can see them going into bankruptcy again, I can see them abandoning the civilian market if it's convenient politically like they did before. Any or none of them may be true, but none of them would surprise me.

Anyone who thinks large gun manufacturers will support your 2nd amendment rights over how they perceive political and economic realities apparently doesn't recall the Clinton AWB and the years leading up to it.

[Mike C]

Anyone who thinks large gun manufacturers will support your 2nd amendment rights over how they perceive political and economic realities apparently doesn't recall the Clinton AWB and the years leading up to it.

No expectation to drop a bunch of coin to support Ma'rights! Although I would prefer an MFG that is deeply rooted and interested in preserving our rights it's not expected. Economic realities are a part of doing business I get it but to stop support altogether for specific products is bullshit, (just as Sig does/has). Now I do expect product support for products that have been purchased with hard earned money. When an MFG stops supporting my gear I'll find someone else. Free market and all.

[BehindBlueI's]

No expectation to drop a bunch of coin to support Ma'rights! Though I would prefer an MFG that is deeply rooted and interested in preserving our rights but it's not expected. Economic realities are a part of doing business I get it but to stop support altogether for specific products is bullshit, (just as Sig does/has). Now I do expect product support for products that have been purchased with hard earned money. When an MFG stops supporting my gear I'll find someone else. Free market and all.

Sure. I'm not saying just shrug and roll with it. I'm saying if you are surprised you haven't been paying attention.

I still refuse to buy a S&W revolver with a keyhole. I know many here don't think it's a big deal, and maybe it isn't. I would only be irritated to own something that reminds me of the Clintons and S&W getting in line behind Monica to hang off Bill's dick. I get why they did it. I get it's the past. I get it's not even the same S&W. I even bought two Shields and a S&W rifle. But I can't buy a keyhole revolver.

[Mike C]

Sure. I'm not saying just shrug and roll with it. I'm saying if you are surprised you haven't been paying attention.

I still refuse to buy a S&W revolver with a keyhole. I know many here don't think it's a big deal, and maybe it isn't. I would only be irritated to own something that reminds me of the Clintons and S&W getting in line behind Monica to hang off Bill's dick. I get why they did it. I get it's the past. I get it's not even the same S&W. I even bought two Shields and a S&W rifle. But I can't buy a keyhole revolver.

Fair points on all accounts, not surprised just upset and venting I guess. Another tidbit of info is that the only thing that will be available per rep for the, "foreseeable future" will be the retro line. Seems like a move to purge inventory and prep for things to come, could also just be savvy business strategy but it still seems like pandering. This is kind of a kick to the balls though not completely unexpected. I have no doubts there will be more of this.

[rob_s]

So where does it say anywhere from Colt that this is a political move?

Or, for that matter, any word from Colt on this at all?

I’m not saying there isn’t, I just seem to have missed it if there is.

When Bill Roger sold us out for ten round mag limits (which isn’t really the whole story but whatever) at least he admitted it.

[ragnar_d]

So where does it say anywhere from Colt that this is a political move?

Or, for that matter, any word from Colt on this at all?

I’m not saying there isn’t, I just seem to have missed it if there is.

When Bill Roger sold us out for ten round mag limits (which isn’t really the whole story but whatever) at least he admitted it.
Tokarev posted the statement TTAG got from Colt. They’re stepping back from commercial long guns for the time being and they’re sitting on 110 days worth of inventory. Current manufacturing will shift to 1911s and revolvers.


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[paherne]

Firearms distributer RSR Group has sent an email blast to their retail customers announcing that Colt will no longer produce long guns for the retail market.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/colt-halts-sales-of-long-guns-to-the-retail-market/

They just never learn that no matter how you try to appease the SJWs, they'll never be satisfied.

[blues]

They just never learn that no matter how you try to appease the SJWs, they'll never be satisfied.

When the police and citizenry are fully disarmed, and armed criminals roam the streets and carry out their misdeeds at will, then they can sit back with a smug smile and say they've accomplished their goals and that the criminals they've championed will never come after them, after all they gave them back the right to vote while they were in prison. :rolleyes:

And then it will no longer be "the barbarians are at the gate"...

[Borderland]

It seems to me Colt isn't really a yuge player in the AR or 1911 market anymore. Why all the gnashing of teeth?

Jeezus, is it true you can't keep a Colt rifle running with parts from another manufacturer? I thought the modularity of the rifle was it's strong suit, at least that's what I've heard. I've also heard that Mil Spec is way overblown and really doesn't mean that much when it comes to the civilian market. DOD does Mil Spec on damn near everything they buy but a civilian has a lot more options if they want.

Or is it like Chevys where everyone wants OEM parts. I don't get it. Maybe somebody could elaborate on that.

I buy Colt 1911's but I couldn't care less if it has a Colt or Ed Brown barrel. As a matter of fact Brownells is showing out-of-stock for all Colt Gov't model barrels. That tells me they aren't in the parts business. Somebody other than Colt is probably making their parts anyway.

[rob_s]

Tokarev posted the statement TTAG got from Colt. They’re stepping back from commercial long guns for the time being and they’re sitting on 110 days worth of inventory. Current manufacturing will shift to 1911s and revolvers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yeah, but that's still 2nd or 3rd hand. I'd like to see something direct from them, particularly as regards motive.

[Mike C]

Borderland, true statement. For me the main aggravation stems from not being able to get OEM parts for a proprietary gun, eg CM762 in 6.5CM, needing/wanting a 308 barrel. In addition its jus a kick to the balls when mfg's just up and decide to stop supporting products you paid for whether it be political or not. But you have a very fair point with most all of their other products being repaired with parts from any mfg in the industry.

[TCinVA]

Jeezus, is it true you can't keep a Colt rifle running with parts from another manufacturer?


No, it's not. The real Colt rifles like the 6920 run nicely out of the box and you can usually find a spare shot-peened, MP inspected bolt from them without too much trouble if you need to replace one. (or to replace the spare you should always keep on hand)


I've also heard that Mil Spec is way overblown and really doesn't mean that much when it comes to the civilian market.

Milspec is just a spec. It's by no means the ultimate spec for all purposes. It is, however, in its truest sense a specification that ensures a useful level of durability and reliability in the resulting weapon. The 6920 is a good default recommendation because it is built as good as an M4, which is nice when you are looking for a reliable weapon for duty or defense.

The term "milspec" itself has been bastardized past all reasonable limits in the market so it's impossible to tell anything by the fact that a manufacturer claims that something is "milspec". It got bastardized in the first place because the public was looking for shorthand ways of finding an AR15 that will actually function reliably out of the box and offer a reasonable service life in a sea of seemingly identical rifles.

Just like how the 1911 being produced by a bunch of different companies resulted in "which 1911?" discussions, the multiplied manufacture of Stoner's design by various companies who all had a different interpretation of the spec and the quality control resulted in unequal results.

The cheap end of the market is way better than it was 20 years ago, and there are plenty of improvements over the military specification available out there. Still, for most people who don't have a specialized purpose in mind for the gun (a precision gun, a hunting gun, etc) and want a good general purpose defensive carbine the true military spec is a nice shorthand way of getting a rifle where you can fettle with the add-on accessories without having to worry about whether or not the rifle is going to function or shoot accurately.



Somebody other than Colt is probably making their parts anyway.

If you are talking about the major components like bolts, barrels, carriers, and receivers, Colt is absolutely manufacturing their own. I would assume they are buying some of the polymer parts they install on guns from someone else, but they most certainly make the core of the weapon themselves.

Shitloads of other AR manufacturers past and present are putting their name on something produced by someone else, although if the end result is quality I couldn't care less.

People who pay lots of attention to this stuff understand the market. Casual shoppers do not...and are not inclined to piece and part together rifles. The build junkies out there already know their shit and will do whatever they do anyway.

But if you peruse enough gun forums you will inevitably see multiple instances of "What's the Glock 19 of the AR world?" kinds of threads because that's usually where somebody who is willing to research a purchase starts.

[Amp]

https://twitter.com/Guntalk/status/1171872018570076160

[TCinVA]

yeah, but that's still 2nd or 3rd hand. I'd like to see something direct from them, particularly as regards motive.

The explanation I've seen...and that I tend to trust because it's coming from people who have actual connections rather than TTAG clickbait dipshits...is that at the moment Colt has a couple of time-sensitive contracts that are large enough that they need to dedicate personnel and production capability to getting them filled in time. Distributors seem to be well stocked at the moment so it would make sense for them to target their maximum production capacity at the contracts until those contracts are filled.

The general gun-buying public seems to have little experience with manufacturing and doesn't seem to understand that factories run on orders. The dude from RSR who fired that email off to the internet certainly doesn't seem to understand it and turned it into Colt abandoning civilian sales of rifles rather than Colt focusing their limited resources (as all resources are limited) to delivering on contract orders, other commercial orders, or to manufacturing other products they want to have on hand for anticipated future orders.

People seem to think that companies continuously manufacture every variant of every product they offer every day. In reality because of the time and effort involved in setting up equipment they make most things in runs.

During this period where Colt is not producing commercial rifles, I'm betting they will still be manufacturing components that will eventually go into commercial rifles because if they are making 1,000 of part A for a contract it will likely make a lot of sense for them to go ahead and make 1,500 or 2,000 of the parts for use in commercial sales or perhaps another contract order that comes in. Etc.

[Cory]

There is a very large an active "clone" market amongst gun owners. People who seek to very accurately mimic military rifles (albeit usually semiauto). Colt rifles are understandably very popular for this. USGI M4s, M4A1s, M16A4, MK18, CQBRs and Mk12 Mod0, Mod1, ModH… and a lot of others... all normally based on Colts.

-Cory

Personal Rant starting.....

I want to say first and wholeheartedly that my vitriol is in no way, shape or form directed at you Cory but ........

....the only group of people I tend to collectively despise more than antigunners are friggin klone kiddies.... Cloning started as a way to use us old obsolete parts that you happened to have laying around in the morning bottom of your or your buddies parts bin....and then suddenly a bunch of assholes did asshole things and went full retard with it and are now paying stupid money for mostly stolen government property..... Nothing makes me vicariously happier than seeing another one of those Yahoo's caught by CID or NCIS and thrown in jail..... And believe me I see more than my fair share of them around Camp Lejuene... Many of them are current mil as well..... Which doublely blows my mind. Why you ask? Do not fret I'll explain below.

It's sad really.... Because most of them seem to think nothing of stealing shit from their supposed brothers armories to support their hobby..... And try to justify it by saying they paid taxes too...... Not only that, but they are putting their careers at risk over AR parts..... really?!!! It ain't that serious bro. You really want that special rifle... Go to selection and they will give you one....

I get that many consider cloning the new version of milsurp collecting but while some of it may be oldeparts that are no longer in service, much of those parts are still in use and most of it is stolen from armsrooms.... And DRMO DOES NOT SELL GUNS, GUN PARTS OR OPTICS IN A USEABLE CONDITION ON TO THE CIVILIAN MARKET....

When I have guys in my rifle company rocking BUIS as their primary day sights due to us having a shortage of RCO's or some of my dudes being without a working PEQ due to shit breaking and going WIR without a inbound replacement and then I see obviously stolen shit on tacswap et al..... It make me want to throat punch people....

Rant over....

I consider cloning military arms to be similar to collecting military surplus rifles of the past. Difference is you can't actually get surplus rifles of the modern military.

I understand not liking thieves or those who steal from the military, but that's people being shitbags. It isn't required to clone rifles. Most rifles can be cloned buying parts on legal markets, with parts manufactured for the civilian market. Judging all who ake clones because a few are assholes doean't seem right. I dont believe most people who clone are thieves, or knowingly market stolen goods.

The only reason I don't own clone rifles is because I don't have the finances to do so.

To say you hate those who want to clone military rifles worse than antigunners... I wish I could say I'm suprised to see gun owners turning on themselves.

-Cory

[TGS]

The explanation I've seen...and that I tend to trust because it's coming from people who have actual connections rather than TTAG clickbait dipshits...is that at the moment Colt has a couple of time-sensitive contracts that are large enough that they need to dedicate personnel and production capability to getting them filled in time. Distributors seem to be well stocked at the moment so it would make sense for them to target their maximum production capacity at the contracts until those contracts are filled.

That's totally what I would've expected, and without hearing so I just assumed that was the case instead of Colt being anti-2A and pulling commercial rifle production due to the recent shootings.

[Borderland]

If you are talking about the major components like bolts, barrels, carriers, and receivers, Colt is absolutely manufacturing their own. I would assume they are buying some of the polymer parts they install on guns from someone else, but they most certainly make the core of the weapon themselves.

Of course I don't know who makes their bolts and barrels and I'm not saying they don't do that in house, but I found this which suggests they weren't. At least the unions that represent the employees made a case out of it and sued Colt.

https://www.hartfordbusiness.com/article/unions-sue-gunmaker-colts-for-alleged-outsourcing-breach

It matters naught to me personally because I've never purchased one of their rifles. I do have a few of their 1911's and Colt is the only 1911 I will buy. That's because they're competitive in that market and they build a good product. I can attest to that much anyway.

[Robinson]

I buy Colt 1911's but I couldn't care less if it has a Colt or Ed Brown barrel. As a matter of fact Brownells is showing out-of-stock for all Colt Gov't model barrels. That tells me they aren't in the parts business. Somebody other than Colt is probably making their parts anyway.

This is just FYI and not meant as an important revelation.

Colt buys forged frames and slides that are made using equipment owned by Colt. But they still make their own pistol barrels. The normal non-NM barrels are actually pretty decent, but Colt doesn't use them in many models anymore. National Match barrels have a little more material at the end where the bushing fits and the lugs are cut slightly differently. They can be noticeably more accurate than the standard barrels. The barrels used in the Custom Shop are over-sized and hand fit to the gun.

[Amp]

However, this recent news begs the question: when, if ever, will Colt resume commercial production of its rifles?

“It’s not forever,” Spitale said. “It’s to say that, at this moment, we’re listening to consumers and putting our resources where they’re most valued.”

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2019/9/12/the-truth-about-colts-ar-15-production/

[fly out]

Now I feel like I've heard from Colt. Still don't like current management; still not organizing a boycott.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that the inventory in the distribution chain dwindles over time, and they still hold off until they see where the AWB talk goes. Perhaps all the way to November, 2020, if it takes that long to get clarity?

The headline on that article was a subtle, but appreciated, dig.

[BillSWPA]

However, this recent news begs the question: when, if ever, will Colt resume commercial production of its rifles?

“It’s not forever,” Spitale said. “It’s to say that, at this moment, we’re listening to consumers and putting our resources where they’re most valued.”

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2019/9/12/the-truth-about-colts-ar-15-production/

If that is the story then Colt is back on my list of companies whose products I will purchase.



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[Spartan1980]

I know this is almost a year old, but it's really getting hard to tell what the hell is going on. Mixed signals and all from the kneejerk media. The AR market is utterly flooded with AR stuff, which drives prices down, so Colt seems to be doing what they need to in order to survive. But have they fulfilled this already?

https://www.guns.com/news/2018/11/13/colt-fn-split-177-million-army-m4-contract-awards

[Borderland]

This is just FYI and not meant as an important revelation.

Colt buys forged frames and slides that are made using equipment owned by Colt. But they still make their own pistol barrels. The normal non-NM barrels are actually pretty decent, but Colt doesn't use them in many models anymore. National Match barrels have a little more material at the end where the bushing fits and the lugs are cut slightly differently. They can be noticeably more accurate than the standard barrels. The barrels used in the Custom Shop are over-sized and hand fit to the gun.

I have both types of barrels. A regular gov't model without the NM barrel is the best shooter I have. Probably has more to do with the barrel bushing and slide/frame fit on the gov't model. All of my pistols are stock from Colt and I shoot them without any mods. Those are good barrels.;)

[Robinson]

I have both types of barrels. A regular gov't model without the NM barrel is the best shooter I have. Probably has more to do with the barrel bushing and slide/frame fit on the gov't model. All of my pistols are stock from Colt and I shoot them without any mods. Those are good barrels.;)

Not to take this thread too far afield, but accuracy in the 1911 is tied mostly to the fit of the barrel to the slide. The fit of the bushing can also affect accuracy though to a smaller degree. Slide to frame fit has little bearing, which is why Colt's design philosophy doesn't call for an extremely tight fit there. Colt makes good barrels, the Custom Shop ones are very serious and precisely fit. All others are drop-in.

[RevolverRob]

So...people want 1911s and Cobra revolvers and some folks want contracts of ARs and there is ~4 months of Colt ARs out there on the market.

You know what there aren't 4-months of? Colt 1911s.

If you haven't tried buying a Colt 1911 lately, it takes a while to find one.

[Sigfan26]

So...people want 1911s and Cobra revolvers and some folks want contracts of ARs and there is ~4 months of Colt ARs out there on the market.

You know what there aren't 4-months of? Colt 1911s.

If you haven't tried buying a Colt 1911 lately, it takes a while to find one.

I’d love an alloy Night Cobra and a .38 Special SAA if they aren’t to busy, now...


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[Borderland]

So...people want 1911s and Cobra revolvers and some folks want contracts of ARs and there is ~4 months of Colt ARs out there on the market.

You know what there aren't 4-months of? Colt 1911s.

If you haven't tried buying a Colt 1911 lately, it takes a while to find one.

About 10 years ago I tried to buy a new Combat Elite. I looked for 2 years and never found one.

I finally gave up and bought a Gold Cup.

I'm not sure why people are complaining about no rifles for a few months. :(

[Robinson]

So...people want 1911s and Cobra revolvers and some folks want contracts of ARs and there is ~4 months of Colt ARs out there on the market.

You know what there aren't 4-months of? Colt 1911s.

If you haven't tried buying a Colt 1911 lately, it takes a while to find one.

Nah, all I have to do is drive about two miles and I can see literally fifty of them in stock.

Okay, that's not typical. I'm lucky enough to live close to one of the top Colt dealers in the world, which means I can examine each one before making a purchase. Plus they can quickly get any Colt that is currently in production. Most of their business is in online sales.

[rob_s]

On the subject of colt AR availability and stock in the supply chain, which models are we talking about? Post-hysteria buying/pricing aside the CCUs seem to be sold out everywhere I look?

[TCinVA]

On the subject of colt AR availability and stock in the supply chain, which models are we talking about? Post-hysteria buying/pricing aside the CCUs seem to be sold out everywhere I look?

Brownells has CCU uppers in stock, but I can't find the complete weapon anywhere. I believe that was a limited run and I'm not sure if Colt will continue selling it. They have a Law Enforcement Carbine that uses the Centurion rail, but that gun seems to have a carbine length gas system.

[Hambo]

Sure. I'm not saying just shrug and roll with it. I'm saying if you are surprised you haven't been paying attention.

The only thing that surprises me is that Colt management hasn't managed to kill the company yet. Eventually Colt will do a Winchester and have someone else make their guns.

[Tokarev]

What's funny about all this, had the RSR salesman not put out this email, is that Colt would have just taken the civilian hiatus and nobody would have even noticed....

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[rob_s]

Brownells has CCU uppers in stock, but I can't find the complete weapon anywhere. I believe that was a limited run and I'm not sure if Colt will continue selling it. They have a Law Enforcement Carbine that uses the Centurion rail, but that gun seems to have a carbine length gas system.

me being me, the carbine-length gas system wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit... ;)

[rob_s]

42744

[blues]

^^^^Trump would probably read that letter from the CEO and say "Are you gonna trust some French guy?"


;)

[RoyGBiv]

Just picked up my 6920 Magpul. It'll likely be a safe queen, but, between this and Beto, I was triggered.

[Zincwarrior]

So...people want 1911s and Cobra revolvers and some folks want contracts of ARs and there is ~4 months of Colt ARs out there on the market.

You know what there aren't 4-months of? Colt 1911s.

If you haven't tried buying a Colt 1911 lately, it takes a while to find one.
Why would you buy a Colt 1911? What did you do to make you hate yourself?

[Mike C]

I still don't trust it. "Foreseeable future" can mean a long fucking time. Basically they are saying we'll be happy to supply you with low capacity pistols because we believe this is all you will be allowed to own so we are adjusting to cover our asses and won't be bothered to even support your products with parts. Cool, smart business move but fucks customers who have products they will not receive support for. Dick move and pisses me off I can't get so much as a freaking barrel and have to look for it in the grey market. Okay, BCM just got a bunch of business and a new customer for life so long as they never pull shit like this or DD.

[RoyGBiv]

I'm in the low-cost-country manufacturing business. (Not having a great year :rolleyes:. /tangent).

Here's my take.....

Colt has limits on their inputs to make good quality products.
- Skilled Labor
- Quality materials
- Factory space
- etc.

If they are in a position to re-allocate those inputs to produce higher margin products while fully utilizing their available inputs, then, it's really a simple business decision to switch from low-margin civilian goods to higher margin LE and MIL goods.

I'll give you an example.....

I have a customer that makes metal parts in the USA. Stamped, CNC Lathe, Laser, etc. He runs his shop 2 full shifts, nonstop. When his customers come to him with low-margin projects, he has to choose.... Do I fit this new thing in, and defer higher margin stuff, or do I send it over to RoyGBiv (with permission from the end customer, of course).?

I quoted him on a project where my customer needed to shorten the lead time (ocean shipping is slow). For what he quoted me to make locally, I could get production done faster overseas (10 days there vs 45 here), put it on an airplane, and still save a lot of money, vs his domestic quote. No quality issues. And I certainly can't blame him. What is the opportunity cost for him to make my lower margin product? It's the same for Colt.... Colt can sell a civvy AR and make $200, or a MIL AR and make $1k. If they stop selling civvy AR's, they can fill that production capacity with other, more profitable business.

Easy choice. Only the marketing of it is difficult.

If I was Colt, maybe I'd go upmarket on the civvy side instead of withdrawing. Pulling out entirely is gonna alienate some folks.

[JSGlock34]

What "high volume contracts" are they referring to? Have there been more recent M4A1 orders or foreign sales? It seems like the USMC is buying more HK M27s, while Geissele and Daniel Defense are supplying the URG-I to SOCOM. Looking to the future, Colt is nowhere to be found in the NGSW program (not that I'm sanguine that this most recent attempt to replace the military service rifle will bear any more fruit than the numerous failed past efforts, but I can tell you one guaranteed way to ensure you don't win a future contract is to not submit an entry into the competition).

As to Colt's shrinking market share, that's what happens when literally all of your competition makes your core products too.

[RevolverRob]

Honestly, this is a perfect example of bad management.

Colt didn’t need to say shit. Ever.

When RSR or whoever called to order they should have said, “Cool, we’re X-months out right now. Bear with us.”

/End

When this email went out they should have said, “We have 180-days of rifle inventory available for Civilian sales. Colt remains committed to serving all of our customers.”

Don’t talk fucking logistics openly. Stop running your fucking mouths you idiots.

If I were running Colt I would have fired every fucking person involved with this. From the sales guy to the PR person. No one talks fucking logistics, manufacturing, sales, money, no one fucking talks about our business to anyone outside of our business.

Now that Colt has stepped in it. They should need to burn off the shit stink. They should do a run of 901s in 6.5 CM - something that no one can really construe as a LE/MIL weapon and send them out.

[JSGlock34]

What "high volume contracts" are they referring to? Have there been more recent M4A1 orders or foreign sales?

To answer my own question, according to TFB (https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/09/19/colt-continues/), Colt "has been awarded a $41,924,594 firm-fixed-price contract to provide M4s to more than a dozen countries through US Department of Defense foreign military sales. While the number of rifles to be produced is not specified the completion date is set for 18 September 2024, and depending on per rifle cost may run to between 50-70,000 rifles..."

[GJM]

Honestly, this is a perfect example of bad management.

Colt didn’t need to say shit. Ever.

When RSR or whoever called to order they should have said, “Cool, we’re X-months out right now. Bear with us.”

/End

When this email went out they should have said, “We have 180-days of rifle inventory available for Civilian sales. Colt remains committed to serving all of our customers.”

Don’t talk fucking logistics openly. Stop running your fucking mouths you idiots.

If I were running Colt I would have fired every fucking person involved with this. From the sales guy to the PR person. No one talks fucking logistics, manufacturing, sales, money, no one fucking talks about our business to anyone outside of our business.

Now that Colt has stepped in it. They should need to burn off the shit stink. They should do a run of 901s in 6.5 CM - something that no one can really construe as a LE/MIL weapon and send them out.

This may be a PF record — five fucks in one post? You know what you write here will be around forever.

[Joe in PNG]

Didn't something similar happen to Beretta during the move?
But without the badly phrased email.

[Mike C]

Honestly, this is a perfect example of bad management.

Colt didn’t need to say shit. Ever.

When RSR or whoever called to order they should have said, “Cool, we’re X-months out right now. Bear with us.”

/End

When this email went out they should have said, “We have 180-days of rifle inventory available for Civilian sales. Colt remains committed to serving all of our customers.”

Don’t talk fucking logistics openly. Stop running your fucking mouths you idiots.

If I were running Colt I would have fired every fucking person involved with this. From the sales guy to the PR person. No one talks fucking logistics, manufacturing, sales, money, no one fucking talks about our business to anyone outside of our business.

Now that Colt has stepped in it. They should need to burn off the shit stink. They should do a run of 901s in 6.5 CM - something that no one can really construe as a LE/MIL weapon and send them out.

Or CM762 uppers then I'll happily STFU.

[RevolverRob]

You know what you write here will be around forever.

I should fucking hope so! ;)

Actually, I hope no one here (or frankly in my meatspace life) is surprised to learn that I have an affection for profanity. I speak three languages, I read seven, but most importantly I know profanities in nine.

NSFFW (Not Safe For Fucking Work):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7vU84Tg8Ng

[JSGlock34]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ry0g4W0_ZI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyFX_2CR7aE

[FredWyn]

For the people who are trying to spin this as something made up by Colt for political reasons....there's this announcement made today. So, yes, they have their hands plenty fully making ARs for military contracts. Here is a statement issued today by the US DOD:

Colt’s Manufacturing Co. LLC, West Hartford, Connecticut, was awarded a $41,924,594 firm-fixed-price Foreign Military Sales (Afghanistan, Bahrain, Djibouti, Federated States of Micronesia, Hungary, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Macedonia, Marshall Islands, Palau, St. Vincent and Grenadines, and Tunisia) contract for production for the M4 and M4A1 carbines. One bid was solicited with one bid received. Work locations and funding will be determined with each order, with an estimated completion date of Sept. 18, 2024. U.S. Army Contracting Command, New Jersey, is the contracting activity (W15QKN-19-D-0116).

[BWT]

I think this happens to in someway to HK throughout the year IIRC.

They’ll mail out products (I think magazines were the big one) twice a year to the States.

Stuff is out of stock and nobody panics.

Somebody just screwed up how this was stated. Probably best to say nothing - full the contract and when your distributors get upset offer that production is currently running continually for contract and should be normal soon.

KAC had tons of stuff out of stock for awhile recently. It’s how it goes sometimes...

[Joe in PNG]

People like Doom Porn.
Some like the fantasy where the world ends in 12 years.
Others like the one where they get sold out to Democrats.

Both are about as likely as most Porn scenarios.

[Ed L]

To answer my own question, according to TFB (https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/09/19/colt-continues/), Colt "has been awarded a $41,924,594 firm-fixed-price contract to provide M4s to more than a dozen countries through US Department of Defense foreign military sales. While the number of rifles to be produced is not specified the completion date is set for 18 September 2024, and depending on per rifle cost may run to between 50-70,000 rifles..."

It seems that they were awarded a $41,924,594 firm-fixed-price Foreign Military Sales (Afghanistan, Bahrain, Djibouti, Federated States of Micronesia, Hungary, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Macedonia, Marshall Islands, Palau, St. Vincent and Grenadines, and Tunisia) contract for production for the M4 and M4A1 carbines.."

I am sorry that they are still not in the civilian market , because I would have loved to have bought a 6920 with a receiver marked Micronesia that was left over from that contract.

[Ed L]

According to Colt's statement, they are still going to sell to the LE market.

Aren't those the same 6920s that they sold to the civilian market?

[idahojess]

Tonight I heard a radio news broadcast on CBS that said that Colt would stop selling the AR-15, a "weapon of war," because there were "too many already on the civilian market."

I know that's not what Colt's press release said, but they probably should have kept their mouths shut, because the anti-gunners will hear what they want to hear.

[blues]

I think they'd better stop depicting a stallion in their logo / trademark as it unfairly depicts equines as murderous, gun loving animals.

[Malamute]

People like Doom Porn.
Some like the fantasy where the world ends in 12 years.
Others like the one where they get sold out to Democrats.

Both are about as likely as most Porn scenarios.

Like the one where a plumber shows up right away when called,...or that day,...or that week?

Back to Colt, I hope they can keep it together. Id like to see them bring out more revolvers. (Python)

[rob_s]

so it seems like predictably the breakdown is:

people that already hated Colt that see this as justification of their position
people that previously liked Colt that prematurely changed their position to hate based on internet rumor but are unwilling to change a publicly-stated opinion despite current information
people that loved Colt, that aren't really going to change their minds anyway

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I said this in a low traffic Colt thread in Rifles, so I will say it here also.


Some media is portraying this as an antigun statement by Colt. They are having polls to ask if you support Colt! Thus, a business decision is framed as a political statement.

One thing that catches my eye is the discontinuity in the description of the guns.

Colt uses the silly Modern Sporting Rifle to describe the semi version. As I have ranted before this is a stupid attempt to make the guns appear nice and not as weapons of war. Since they are nice, please, please don't ban Uncle Fudd's toy. It negates the principles behind the RKBA which isn't about hunting and your lard ass in the deer blind.

Then, they discuss how they will sell weapons to the military and law - obviously as instruments lethal force for the protection of civilians by the law and as weapons of war by the military.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I think they'd better stop depicting a stallion in their logo / trademark as it unfairly depicts equines as murderous, gun loving animals.

Horse tried to kill me when I was a kid. I'll go for murderous! It might have been accidental as the horse was fighting with another horse and I was a side effect. Not that cars haven't tried to take me out a few times.

Modern Sporting Animal - I think NOT!

[Totem Polar]

I think they'd better stop depicting a stallion in their logo / trademark as it unfairly depicts equines as murderous, gun loving animals.

That sort of thinking is rampant these days.


so it seems like predictably the breakdown is:

people that already hated Colt that see this as justification of their position
people that previously liked Colt that prematurely changed their position to hate based on internet rumor but are unwilling to change a publicly-stated opinion despite current information
people that loved Colt, that aren't really going to change their minds anyway
people that loved Colt, buy their products, but still remember a previous history of Colt stepping on their own horse dick

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Colt bought into the smart gun movement. Didn't work out, did it? Then there was the 2000. Wonder gun! Saw a show on Japanese horse meat sashimi restaurants. Works for me. My kid said that horse meat preparations were pretty tasty when she was in Switzerland. Stayed in a house with a Sig 550 for the militia - the owner said it was a pain in the butt to have around. Just blathering here.

[rob_s]

More panic mongering to drive sales.

Which has me thinking the OG RSR dipwad probably wasn't stupid (or, if he is, this isn't actually a symptom of such) but instead was probably just looking to incite panic buying.

42789

[Mike C]

so it seems like predictably the breakdown is:

people that already hated Colt that see this as justification of their position
people that previously liked Colt that prematurely changed their position to hate based on internet rumor but are unwilling to change a publicly-stated opinion despite current information
people that loved Colt, that aren't really going to change their minds anyway


You can't really keyhole all of us man. Though I am sure a lot of people fall into those categories. I like Colt's products. I didn't hate them. I don't hate them now but I do think they're dicks and won't buy any more of their products for dropping support for parts as they have. I don't think that's premature. When I called to just buy an upper or barrel to something I own from them because it's OOS I was literally told to pound sand as we aren't making anymore anytime soon as tactfully as possible. Given Colt's history I think I have a right to be mad when I can't source parts for more than $5K worth of their products I have just sitting around. One of which is mostly proprietary, (at least the parts I want). I have collectively spent well into the $10K mark on their products over the years and when you start spending into double digits and can't get support for your products I think there is reason to be a little pissed. I imagine you'd feel this way if a car mfg stopped supporting parts for a car they recently released that you bought thinking they'd warranty it and support you with parts if you had the need.

ETA: I hope there is a panic over them I'll sell mine and buy some BCM guns.

[rob_s]

You can't really keyhole all of us man. Though I am sure a lot of people fall into those categories. I like Colt's products. I didn't hate them. I don't hate them now but I do think they're dicks and won't buy any more of their products for dropping support for parts as they have. I don't think that's premature. When I called to just buy an upper or barrel to something I own from them because it's OOS I was literally told to pound sand as we aren't making anymore anytime soon as tactfully as possible. Given Colt's history I think I have a right to be mad when I can't source parts for more than $5K worth of their products I have just sitting around. One of which is mostly proprietary, (at least the parts I want). I have collectively spent well into the $10K mark on their products over the years and when you start spending into double digits and can't get support for your products I think there is reason to be a little pissed. I imagine you'd feel this way if a car mfg stopped supporting parts for a car they recently released that you bought thinking they'd warranty it and support you with parts if you had the need.

ETA: I hope there is a panic over them I'll sell mine and buy some BCM guns.

The beauty of the fact that Colt hasn't gone in for all these "better than milspec" designs is that you can literally get spare parts for their ARs from dozens of vendors. Some of them even produce parts virtually as good as (or, according to many on the internet, better than) the OEM you're trying to replace.

Sorry, but I don't see "hey, we're going to stop making and selling these things for the commercial market for a bit to focus on other things" as quite on par with "no soup for you!"

[Mike C]

The beauty of the fact that Colt hasn't gone in for all these "better than milspec" designs is that you can literally get spare parts for their ARs from dozens of vendors. Some of them even produce parts virtually as good as (or, according to many on the internet, better than) the OEM you're trying to replace.

Sorry, but I don't see "hey, we're going to stop making and selling these things for the commercial market for a bit to focus on other things" as quite on par with "no soup for you!"

I called them and tried to get a barrel or upper in .308 for the CM6.5 I have. Barrel is proprietary. I was told I can't get one unless its through grey market and was told they will not be making any no date when. Yeah you can see it however you want but I'm sitting around with something with proprietary parts I can get a replacement barrel for which is bad for something in 6.5CM. Pretty much, "no soup for you." I think you have some fair points but I'll just have to disagree with you since I'm the one who talked to them and have stuff sitting around I paid for with blood to have and can't get parts for.

[Balisong]

I think they'd better stop depicting a stallion in their logo / trademark as it unfairly depicts equines as murderous, gun loving animals.

This is serious, will you quit horsing around?

Sounds like someone else should take over the reins of Colt's PR.

[blues]

This is serious, will you quit horsing around?

Sounds like someone else should take over the reins of Colt's PR.

Neigh!

But I will support your endeavor.

[Lex Luthier]

This is serious, will you quit horsing around?

Sounds like someone else should take over the reins of Colt's PR.

Just what are you trying to saddle him with?
You know he's out to pasture these days.

[blues]

Just what are you trying to saddle him with?
You know he's out to pasture these days.

The grass is always greener on the other side. Of course it's hard to tell with blinders on. Could be a Diamondback nearby and I'd completely miss it.

[Balisong]

Neigh!

But I will support your endeavor.

I must apologize to everyone here. I've read too many of blues' posts lately. It's been the stuff of nightMARES. It kind of has me TRIGGERed.

[blues]

I must apologize to everyone here. I've read too many of blues' posts lately. It's been the stuff of nightMARES. It kind of has me TRIGGERed.

Time for us both to hoof it on out of here. (And stop blaming me for your addiction. ;))

[That Guy]

I think they'd better stop depicting a stallion in their logo / trademark as it unfairly depicts equines as murderous, gun loving animals.

So you're saying they should rename themselves after some other animal, a murderous and gun loving one?

Well, I do have to admit Dachshund Arms does have a bit of a ring to it.

[blues]

So you're saying they should rename themselves after some other animal, a murderous and gun loving one?

Well, I do have to admit Dachshund Arms does have a bit of a ring to it.

Ferret Firearms? (We don't need no stinking badgers.)

[willie]

There are more horses' asses than horses at Colt.

[11B10]

This may be a PF record — five fucks in one post? You know what you write here will be around forever.



George, you beat me to it.

[11B10]

Ferret Firearms? (We don't need no stinking badgers.)



Just my opinion but: THE WINNER AND STILL CHAMPION!!!! My only regret is I was reading this thread while eating and drinking. Damn you, blues.

[Balisong]

Time for us both to hoof it on out of here. (And stop blaming me for your addiction. ;))

Whoa there!!



Wild horses couldn't drag me away from here.

[Borderland]

I called them and tried to get a barrel or upper in .308 for the CM6.5 I have. Barrel is proprietary. I was told I can't get one unless its through grey market and was told they will not be making any no date when. Yeah you can see it however you want but I'm sitting around with something with proprietary parts I can get a replacement barrel for which is bad for something in 6.5CM. Pretty much, "no soup for you." I think you have some fair points but I'll just have to disagree with you since I'm the one who talked to them and have stuff sitting around I paid for with blood to have and can't get parts for.

Not singling you out here but I think this happens all the time when mfg's start building exotic variations. If I understand this correctly you have a 6.5 CM AR-10. How many parts did Colt have to modify to get a 6.5 CM to work in an AR-10 platform? Sounds like just about everything. The world of AR-10's looks to be a minefield of proprietary parts.

I was at the range the other day and a guy had an AR-10 that wouldn't feed new LC ammo. He said he had the rifle custom built, about 5K. He was pretty pissed off. He blamed the FTF's on the ammo and gave me about 15 rds. I checked it for spec at home with a micrometer and there was nothing wrong with the ammo. Probably a mag issue.

I don't think I've ever seen that with an AR-15. Maybe because most mfg's clone the Colt M4.
.

[FredWyn]

So, I guess we are all beating a dead horse?

[JodyH]

I'd still buy a LE901 if I could find one for around $1500, even if it is a proprietary AR10'ish rifle with little hope for spare parts availability.

[FredWyn]

Dang, I was hopeful this pun-fest would continue.

But, yes, I have owned and used COLT AR rifles for a very, very long time. Top-notch products. I feel sorry for the Colt line workers who are turning out truly quality, rugged, reliable products and have to endure complete and total incompetence at the senior-management level which has utterly failed to innovate. That's on them, not on the guys doing the actual work.

[Mike C]

Not singling you out here but I think this happens all the time when mfg's start building exotic variations. If I understand this correctly you have a 6.5 CM AR-10. How many parts did Colt have to modify to get a 6.5 CM to work in an AR-10 platform? Sounds like just about everything. The world of AR-10's looks to be a minefield of proprietary parts.

Correct on the 6.5CM, I'm not sure how much they've modified/scaled up or if they completely redesigned most of the guns. It really is a mine field unless it's DPMS pattern. Really, I knew better buying the rifle but was so impressed with the one I shot I had to buy one. It's a real joy to shoot and just over 2500 rounds into it the gun is much more accurate than I thought was possible without stepping up to big money. I picked it up with transfer for just a hair over $1300 and it is an incredible product/value for the money. I think the CM762 is just as good in .308 at least what I've experienced. Really all my gripe is just about getting an extra barrel for when I need it. I don't think I'll ever break anything on the gun but could burn that 6.5 barrel in a hurry. I will be slowing down on it's usage, I really hope Colt starts to trickle parts or uppers out for them or at least let me send it in for a rebarrel if needed. It's good if all this is a move to stay a float though. A sport business will change to meet market demand, I don't know which way it is one or the other political or whatever but I do hope it's just what they state it to be. I'm trying to be reasonable and there have been some solid points on here.

[Borderland]

Correct on the 6.5CM, I'm not sure how much they've modified/scaled up or if they completely redesigned most of the guns. It really is a mine field unless it's DPMS pattern. Really, I knew better buying the rifle but was so impressed with the one I shot I had to buy one. It's a real joy to shoot and just over 2500 rounds into it the gun is much more accurate than I thought was possible without stepping up to big money. I picked it up with transfer for just a hair over $1300 and it is an incredible product/value for the money. I think the CM762 is just as good in .308 at least what I've experienced. Really all my gripe is just about getting an extra barrel for when I need it. I don't think I'll ever break anything on the gun but could burn that 6.5 barrel in a hurry. I will be slowing down on it's usage, I really hope Colt starts to trickle parts or uppers out for them or at least let me send it in for a rebarrel if needed. It's good if all this is a move to stay a float though. A sport business will change to meet market demand, I don't know which way it is one or the other political or whatever but I do hope it's just what they state it to be. I'm trying to be reasonable and there have been some solid points on here.

Roger that. I've been stymied by Colt before but if you wait long enough they generally come thru. Good luck.

[Mike C]

Roger that. I've been stymied by Colt before but if you wait long enough they generally come thru. Good luck.

Much appreciated I think you are right on just holding out. They've managed to be around for a heck of a long time and dumping stuff post haste over impressions is just stupid. I'm just glad there are some voices of reason to pull me back.

[ragnar_d]

Honestly, this is a perfect example of bad management.

Colt didn’t need to say shit. Ever.

When RSR or whoever called to order they should have said, “Cool, we’re X-months out right now. Bear with us.”

/End

When this email went out they should have said, “We have 180-days of rifle inventory available for Civilian sales. Colt remains committed to serving all of our customers.”

Don’t talk fucking logistics openly. Stop running your fucking mouths you idiots.

If I were running Colt I would have fired every fucking person involved with this. From the sales guy to the PR person. No one talks fucking logistics, manufacturing, sales, money, no one fucking talks about our business to anyone outside of our business.

Now that Colt has stepped in it. They should need to burn off the shit stink. They should do a run of 901s in 6.5 CM - something that no one can really construe as a LE/MIL weapon and send them out.
The more I thought about this, the more I came around to this conclusion.

Honestly, it's hard for me to be bothered about this one. I'd be more PO'ed if Centurion, KAC, or SOLGW rifles became unavailable . . . those I'd actually feel upset about.

[willie]

Colt's board needs to go get their teeth floated.

[Borderland]

Colt's board needs to go get their teeth floated.

Colt is a LLC. If you have enough money you can buy a place on the board. Colt isn't a publicly held company. Board answers to no one except the shareholders. That may be why they don't really care about the civilian market because that isn't where the profit lies.

Consider yourself lucky if you can even buy one of their rifles. I know that sucks but that's the way they roll.

[JodyH]

Colt is a LLC. If you have enough money you can buy a place on the board. Colt isn't a publicly held company. Board answers to no one except the shareholders. That may be why they don't really care about the civilian market because that isn't where the profit lies.
And their numerous forays through the bankruptcy process suggests they might want to seek profits elsewhere.

[Borderland]

And their numerous forays through the bankruptcy process suggests they might want to seek profits elsewhere.

Agreed, bankruptcy wouldn't be my first choice but it does allow individuals to walk away from their financial obligations, and as you say "seek profits elsewhere".

Colt isn't exactly a profitable company like Ruger or S&W. The partners are receiving a pretty nice salary however. Colt is managed like a hedge fund. They're a pretty wedged company but they do build good firearms. I have enough to know that much.

[David S.]

I notice that the OEM2 is Out Of Stock in the handful of online gun stores I checked. So much for the sufficient capacity.

[rob_s]

I notice that the OEM2 is Out Of Stock in the handful of online gun stores I checked. So much for the sufficient capacity.

Which makes me think the RSR dipwad that sent the original email got exactly what he wanted: panic sales.

[Lex Luthier]

Which makes me think the RSR dipwad that sent the original email got exactly what he wanted: panic sales.

Well, that and a pink slip. There is a tiny bit of Justice, sometimes.

[mmc45414]

And their numerous forays through the bankruptcy process suggests they might want to seek profits elsewhere.It seems like they have always managed to prosper when they have solid government contracts where they can function and budget around a known revenue stream. Speculating on product development that requires being nimble, not so much.

I am not a total student of the industry history, but didn't all their troubles start after they lost out to FN?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[JodyH]

I am not a total student of the industry history, but didn't all their troubles start after they lost out to FN?
Having zero response to the Glock invasion has been an albatross around Colts neck since the early '90's.
Letting FN grab a huge portion of the Mil M4 market was just the icing on the shit cake Colt has been eating for decades.

[JRB]

Having zero response to the Glock invasion has been an albatross around Colts neck since the early '90's.
Letting FN grab a huge portion of the Mil M4 market was just the icing on the shit cake Colt has been eating for decades.

That and the whole 'stocking Colt dealer' BS. My FFL isn't a stocking Colt dealer and has no interest in buying that kind of inventory to become one.
There have been many times I'd have bought a LE6920, LE6720, AR15A4, or 1991A1 turned into building the same AR configuration out of second hand or other brand components, and some other pistol.

[mmc45414]

Having zero response to the Glock invasion has been an albatross around Colts neck since the early '90's.
I think they were also molasses slow to start making their 1911 with visible sights and extended tang and safety.



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Glenn E. Meyer]

They had a failed response to the Glock with the 2000. IIRC, Shooting Times had a glorious computer graphics spread of it as a wonder weapon. Then, the tried to jump on the smart gun bandwagon, with the 2000 or a CZ based gun.

Remember the smart guns - SW, Colt, Taurus - all tried to play. Still waiting for Biden's gun that will test your DNA on the spot.

[HCM]

42853

[Amp]

Internet foolishness has forced a very busy man with a big job, Colt’s Mfg. Co. President and CEO Dennis Veilleux, to step away from making sure guns are produced at the East Hartford, Conn., factory and, instead, focus on the chatroom perception that, somehow, today’s Colt’s is against the consumer sale of AR-15s.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/9/20/the-keefe-report-colt-s-mfg-and-foolishness/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=0919

[JodyH]

Internet foolishness has forced a very busy man with a big job, Colt’s Mfg. Co. President and CEO Dennis Veilleux, to step away from making sure guns are produced at the East Hartford, Conn., factory and, instead, focus on the chatroom perception that, somehow, today’s Colt’s is against the consumer sale of AR-15s.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/9/20/the-keefe-report-colt-s-mfg-and-foolishness/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=0919

The timing of Colts decision to pause manufacturing of AR's for civilian sales was horrible.
Colts inability to control their brand image is also terrible, their anger/frustration should be with RSR not the internet forums.

[ragnar_d]

Colts inability to control their brand image is also terrible, their anger/frustration should be with RSR not the internet forums.
^^^ This.

My commentary on another discussion was that if Colt had communicated it more tactfully, RSR hadn’t hyped it up, and then someone else hadn’t taken business communications to TTAG, this wouldn’t even be a story.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nalesq]

Letting FN grab a huge portion of the Mil M4 market was just the icing on the shit cake Colt has been eating for decades.

When I was at Fort Jackson for a spell years ago, I went out a couple times with a gal who worked at FN in their accounting department. I recall her saying that FN could make M4 carbines for the Army for a lot less money than Colt ever could, because of the significant differences in labor costs in South Carolina versus Connecticut, and so it would only be a matter of time and expiring contractual commitments before even Uncle Sugar would get tired of spending more money on Colt products versus the same product for less money made by FN.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Borderland]

It's hard to leave when the state keeps "investing" millions of dollars in your business.

https://www.journalinquirer.com/public/decades-of-aid-for-colt-s/article_a79faaa0-1632-11e7-89b4-435c25adf75c.html

Small wonder CT has yuge budget problems.

https://yankeeinstitute.org/2019/05/14/jp-morgan-report-highlights-connecticut-pension-problems/

Oh well, I don't pay taxes in CT so no concern of mine.

[RevolverRob]

It's hard to leave when the state keeps "investing" millions of dollars in your business.

https://www.journalinquirer.com/public/decades-of-aid-for-colt-s/article_a79faaa0-1632-11e7-89b4-435c25adf75c.html

Small wonder CT has yuge budget problems.

https://yankeeinstitute.org/2019/05/14/jp-morgan-report-highlights-connecticut-pension-problems/

Oh well, I don't pay taxes in CT so no concern of mine.

It’s all kick backs.

Predatory Investments meant to fleece bond buyers and loan providers. Short term capital gun by leveraging a company’s assets. Then when it tanks, you slip a few hundred K to the people who administer such things and rinse and repeat after you come out of bankruptcy.

Colt has been on a rinse and repeat path to failure for nearly four decades. Until someone actually buys out the IP to do right, it’ll be a 5-10 year repeat cycle.

If people wanted to really save Colt...they’d stop buying Colts. And contracts would stop going to Colt. The instant that Colt becomes worthless and remains worthless, the predators will jump off. But not until rock bottom is reached will anything happen. Colt is run by a bunch of greed addicts and there isn’t much that can be done.