Fun controls bills out of committee

[LOKNLOD]

Hope no one is sitting on their hands over this. The (R)s won’t save us of their own accord. You’re all calling, writing, posting, right?

From the commies at Countable:

The House Judiciary Committee on Tuesday passed a trio of gun control bills after a lengthy markup hearing, including a ban on magazines with more than 10 rounds of ammunition and a so-called “red flag law”. The committee originally planned to return early from summer recess to hold the hearing last week, but the plan was postponed in response to Hurricane Dorian.

The three gun control bills passed along party-line votes, and here’s a look at each.

H.R. 1186 - Keep Americans Safe Act: This bill would ban “high capacity” ammunition magazines which carry more than 10 rounds. It has the support of 141 Democratic cosponsors. The Keep Americans Safe Act passed on a party-line vote of 23-16.
H.R. 1236 - Extreme Risk Protection Order Act of 2019 (includes provisions of H.R. 3076): This bill would provide grants to states to adopt laws providing for Extreme Risk Protection Orders to prevent those deemed a risk to themselves or others from accessing firearms, and establish procedures for obtaining ERPOs in federal court. H.R. 1236 has been cosponsored by 176 Democrats and two Republicans while H.R. 3076 has the support of 98 Democratic cosponsors. The Extreme Risk Protection Order Act passed on a party-line vote of 22-16.
H.R. 2708 - Disarm Hate Act: This bill would make people convicted of misdemeanor hate crimes ineligible for gun ownership. It has the support of 142 Democratic cosponsors. The Disarm Hate Act passed on a party-line vote of 23-15.

[Guerrero]

As a general question, what is the most effective way to contact my Congress-critters? I.e. to which comm channel will they actually listen?

[RoyGBiv]

Was "Fun" intentional or just a lucky type-o?

FWIW... Made me laugh. :o

[LOKNLOD]

Was "Fun" intentional or just a lucky type-o?

FWIW... Made me laugh. :o

Totally autocorrect typo. Freudian slip? Haha

[Clusterfrack]

Ugh. Well, this is hardly a surprise.

The mag ban does not appear to be retroactive. I just ordered some more standard capacity mags.

The hate crime bill is ‘interesting’. I mean who likes racists or homophobes? Why not take away their constitutional rights for a misdemeanor infraction? Why stop at the 2nd? Let’s prevent them from speaking or posting as well...

[HCountyGuy]

Blatant bullshit.

Magazine limits to 10 don’t accomplish anything because changing a mag ain’t that time intensive. Didn’t the Parkland shooter have only 10-round mags? IIRC it was one of the recent school shooters that used 10-rounders.

ERPOs are going to be abused, and I sincerely doubt whatever legislation is brought up will be crafted well enough to prevent abuse or even punish those who make blatantly false allegations.

As for disarming those convicted of hate crimes, that sounds nice until the definition of a hate crime is changed to disagreeing with the narrative. We don’t need hate crime legislation anyway, because if the laws were enforced fairly anyway it wouldn’t matter. We’ve discussed here before about equal application of the law. Someone goes out to hurt someone else? Punish them, overall motive be damned. If what they do is heinous enough, take’em out behind the courthouse and Old Yeller them.

I hope none of these laws get any significant traction or consideration beyond this. Unfortunately with the seemingly increasing frequency of mass shootings something is going to give, it’s just a matter of what. The 2A’s balls are getting closer to the bandsaw.

[Totem Polar]

The hate crime bill is ‘interesting’. I mean who likes racists or homophobes? Why not take away their constitutional rights for a misdemeanor infraction? Why stop at the 2nd? Let’s prevent them from speaking or posting as well...

That’s the long-term onerous issue. Today’s meme is tomorrow’s disqualifying social media post. Mark my words on that.

[JTQ]

H.R. 2708 - Disarm Hate Act: This bill would make people convicted of misdemeanor hate crimes ineligible for gun ownership. It has the support of 142 Democratic cosponsors. The Disarm Hate Act passed on a party-line vote of 23-15.
After you serve your sentence for your misdemeanor conviction, do you get your rights back, just like convicted felons in Florida (and other states) do?

[NEPAKevin]

As a general question, what is the most effective way to contact my Congress-critters? I.e. to which comm channel will they actually listen?

FWIW, emails usually generate those "thank you for your 2 cents... honor to serve as your (elected position)... canned responses. While I imagine most track various interests, they probably actually listen to those that have significant donations backing them up.

[Kirk]

So if mags are limited to 10 and not retroactive, are pre-ban mags usually easy to find/purchase? Just curious how this works.

[Clusterfrack]

So if mags are limited to 10 and not retroactive, are pre-ban mags usually easy to find/purchase? Just curious how this works.

I think sales and transfers are forbidden.

[Kirk]

I think sales and transfers are forbidden.

Oh gotcha, thanks for the reply. Looks like I'm gonna be buying a good deal of regular mags and some 10 round mags as well just to have on hand since I have none. Never can have too many mags either way lol

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The antigun folks are now smart enough to disallow grandfathering. They learned that from the research on why the 94 AWB failed.


Magazine limits to 10 don’t accomplish anything because changing a mag ain’t that time intensive. Didn’t the Parkland shooter have only 10-round mags? IIRC it was one of the recent school shooters that used 10-rounders.

That's true and why the mag ban will lead to a ban on all semi auto mag fed guns. You have stated that the 10s are as deadly as the 30s, so don't ban the 30s. Or, the antigun person will say - take out the guns and the 10 round mags.

If you then say, well, Cowboy Billy Meatback can shoot a lever action so fast, so don't ban the semis - the anti will say - Really, ban the levers. See Australia for precedent on that one.

The only really hope is that the pseudo progun legislators and Presidents don't fold and/or SCOTUS actually gets off its butt and takes a ban case. Then they have to find clearly that they are unconstitutional.

Let me think about this hope. We are screwed, blued and tattooed.

[RevolverRob]

Now I have to decide which magazines to buy. I was already going to grab some more STI mags, and a few more Colt SMG-pattern mags. I guess a 10-pack of PMags and then I have to make decisions about long-term -

HK?
Beretta?
BHP?

Since it won’t exempt C&R or machine guns - if I ever actually want a sub-gun I need to buy now...

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Is there any data on which survive better being buried in your basement or backyard? You want them to be ok for the 'Revolution'. Cynical me.

[spinmove_]

Is there any data on which survive better being buried in your basement or backyard? You want them to be ok for the 'Revolution'. Cynical me.

Does it matter if you’re doing the smart thing and burying them in a Pelican case?


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[Ichiban]

Does it matter if you’re doing the smart thing and burying them in a Pelican case?



I thought it was PVC pipe with end caps.

[Mitch]

Realistically I don’t think this even makes it to the floor in the Senate. This is election year posturing.

We have rough times ahead though, especially with the current state of affairs at the NRA. The other side has political momentum building and I don’t think it looks good for us.

If Republicans lose the senate next year I think we’re fucked.


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[OlongJohnson]

There's already a U.S. District Court ruling that a 10-round limit is unconstitutional. Anything being passed at the Federal level would guarantee it goes all the way to the USC.

https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2019/4/5/why-anti-gun-politicians-are-so-scared-of-this-ca-judge-s-ruling/

[RJ]

Realistically I don’t think this even makes it to the floor in the Senate. This is election year posturing.

We have rough times ahead though, especially with the current state of affairs at the NRA. The other side has political momentum building and I don’t think it looks good for us.

If Republicans lose the senate next year I think we’re fucked.


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This.


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[spinmove_]

I thought it was PVC pipe with end caps.

Whatever seals out the elements I guess. Call me crazy, but I like at least a little bit of organization and if I’m digging up the thing it’s probably helpful if everything inside isn’t smacking each other around on the way up being dragged or lifted out.


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[Grey]

So do I get more mags or invest in 10 round guns...? Both?

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[RevolverRob]

So do I get more mags or invest in 10 round guns...? Both?

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Right now, you write your legislators and urge them to block this bill from even coming up for a vote.

And also probably buy some more mags. More mags can never hurt.

I decided to not go absolutely batshit, but I’m gonna grab and half-dozen 32-round Colt SMG mags, plus a few 20s, and some more Gen 2 STI mags.

While I debate what I should buy after that.

[fly out]

I thought it was PVC pipe with end caps.

No, no, no. The PVC is for storing your extra conduit and pipe. Spread it out a bit, say fifteen or twenty spots scattered around your property, about two feet down.

The Pelicans go under two of the PVC pipes, about four feet down, under large flat rocks, say, in the approximate middle of a typical search array.

You'll be dead, but you'll die knowing that they'll be cursing your name for months, perhaps years.

I kid, I kid.

Everyone knows the Pelicans go under your brother-in-law's prize roses when he's on a three-week cruise to the Galapagos.

Still kidding.

[Grey]

Right now, you write your legislators and urge them to block this bill from even coming up for a vote.

And also probably buy some more mags. More mags can never hurt.

I decided to not go absolutely batshit, but I’m gonna grab and half-dozen 32-round Colt SMG mags, plus a few 20s, and some more Gen 2 STI mags.

While I debate what I should buy after that.I live in NoVA, my rep sends out his gun control ideas in a mass mailing...

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[Medusa]

So if mags are limited to 10 and not retroactive, are pre-ban mags usually easy to find/purchase? Just curious how this works.

They were back in the day. I still have a great many pre 1993 manufacture 92 mags. I would guess it’d be the same.

These bills are concerning AF, I don't support them, and I’m definitely taking the time to advocate against them from the left, and I am donating to pro 2a orgs.

[OlongJohnson]

California in 1989: No more new standard-cap mags. But buy, sell, trade, use, or give the ones that are already out there.

California in 2000 or 2001: You can keep and use the standard-cap mags you have, but no buy, sell, trade, or give.

California in 2016: Standard-cap mags must be surrendered, destroyed, or moved out of state by the deadline we set.

The antis think generationally. I'm pretty sure it was DPMoynihan who said (to paraphrase), "Nevermind the guns, just ban new ammo sales and in a few decades the problem will be solved."


BTW, consider the demographic and life history boxes that had to be checked for a person to even be eligible to be affected by the change in 2016, and you get a pretty good picture of the person they are fighting this culture war against.

[LOKNLOD]

These bills are concerning AF, I don't support them, and I’m definitely taking the time to advocate against them from the left, and I am donating to pro 2a orgs.

Good. Thank you. We can all agree to disagree on all sorts of issue but it's a moot point when both major parties seem hellbent on tossing the first two amendments down the drain.

[LOKNLOD]

So do I get more mags or invest in 10 round guns...? Both?

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Mags now. There'll be plenty of 10-rounders later.

If you can't get the 10 round guns later, well... you'll be glad had real mags for the fight.

[MGW]

Right now, you write your legislators and urge them to block this bill from even coming up for a vote.

And also probably buy some more mags. More mags can never hurt.

I decided to not go absolutely batshit, but I’m gonna grab and half-dozen 32-round Colt SMG mags, plus a few 20s, and some more Gen 2 STI mags.

While I debate what I should buy after that.

I need to buy an STI so I can justify buying a bunch of Gen 2 mags. Democrats are such enablers. Don’t need to worry about that recession now.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

After the 94 ban was lifted, I bought a slew of 10 round Glock mags real cheap to use in IDPA matches. So I am ahead of the curve for Chuck and Nancy and ban states. They were six bucks a mag.

[45dotACP]

Not trying to be abrasive or offensive, but I'm not going to change my buying habits one whit.

I am going to write my senators, send in money to the ISRA and offer to take my friends shooting and yes...even post my match vids and pro gun content to social media to show gun owners in a responsible, safe, and fun perspective, as opposed to everyone thinking I'm a baby boomer who used to drink from a "whites only" water fountain.

Buying another set of 17 round mags is a bandaid and as was noted above...there is little likelihood they'll be grandfathered. Abusive laws are going to be abusive and the veil of "sensible" gun control has been abandoned. We know what we're fighting now. So let's fight it. I want my kids to be able to buy standard cap mags too.

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[RevolverRob]

In case you guys haven't read it - here is the summary of HR 1186 (the mag ban) - https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1186

Of particular interest this line:


The bill permits continued possession of, but prohibits sale or transfer of, a grandfathered LCAFD.

LCAFD = large capacity ammunition feeding device

[Borderland]

I'm betting that after the election 20-30 rd mags won't be legal to sell and there will be shortages of 10 rd mags.

Prices for 10 rd mags, if you can find any, will be double what they are today. Supply and demand.

[blues]

I'm betting that after the election 20-30 rd mags won't be legal to sell and there will be shortages of 10 rd mags.

Prices for 10 rd mags, if you can find any, will be double what they are today. Supply and demand.

I bought 10 rounders a couple years back as a hedge against future shortages.

[Suvorov]

I'll get right on it! I'm sure Dianne Feinstein, Kamila Harris, and Jackie Spier will be compelled and deeply moved by my well written and spoken pleas for respect of the 2nd Amendment and how it is a final protective line against tyranny!

[Suvorov]

In case you guys haven't read it - here is the summary of HR 1186 (the mag ban) - https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1186

Of particular interest this line:



LCAFD = large capacity ammunition feeding device

For now. Don't forget that Kalifornia later "altered the terms" and prohibited possession of the grandfathered magazines.

Tyrants gonna tyrant.

[Jeff22]

Apparently anything sent to US Senators and Representatives gets scanned. They don't get actual letters written on paper any more.

The procedures for handling mail in State legislatures vary from state to state.

If you write an elected official, AND YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THEIR CONSTITUTENTS they won't pay any attention, anyway.

And if you send them a form letter (from NRA ILA or someplace) with your name attached, they probably won't pay attention.

Grant Cunningham had an article on his blog within the last month about how to contact your representatives.

[blues]

If you write an elected official, AND YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THEIR CONSTITUTENTS they won't pay any attention, anyway.



I wrote Trey Gowdy of SC while he was still in the House. (I'm across his border in NC). The letter I wrote was one of appreciation for some of his efforts on a couple of matters.

Not even the courtesy of acknowledging receipt.

That really rubbed me the wrong way from a man I expected more of. (Should've known better.)

Of late, it seems that Senator Tillis is the only one who bothers to acknowledge and politely respond to correspondence. Sen. Burr and Rep. Mark Meadows don't even deign to respond in the past several months. That will be noted come reelection time.

[Grey]

I wrote Trey Gowdy of SC while he was still in the House. (I'm across his border in NC). The letter I wrote was one of appreciation for some of his efforts on a couple of matters.

Not even the courtesy of acknowledging receipt.

That really rubbed me the wrong way from a man I expected more of. (Should've known better.)

Of late, it seems that Senator Tillis is the only one who bothers to acknowledge and politely respond to correspondence. Sen. Burr and Rep. Mark Meadows don't even deign to respond in the past several months. That will be noted come reelection time.You expect them to act like they were voted into office by the people to serve the people? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]. I really have no clue what these guys do other than spout a whole lot of crap and threaten to shut down the gov and enrich themselves with book and speaking deals...

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[blues]

You expect them to act like they were voted into office by the people to serve the people? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]. I really have no clue what these guys do other than spout a whole lot of crap and threaten to shut down the gov and enrich themselves with book and speaking deals...

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Burr and Meadows "used to" respond to each and every message. Even a canned response is superior to no response. No response may be what they will get from me when next time they depend upon my vote.

I was never naive enough to think they gave a rat's ass either way...but if they don't think it's worth the effort...I'll take it under advisement.

[CWM11B]

Burr is retiring so he doesn't care.He's never been a staunch ally of the 2A, said what he needed to to get elected. Tillis is no friend to gun owners, and is a big "compromise" type appeaser. In other words, a capitulator. I have contacted his office numerous times and have always gotten non answer answers. The last time I called was about this particular bit of legislation and was told ""the senator cant comment on items not before the Senate". Really? No opinion on defending the constitution? On proposed legislation that impacts millions of law abiding citizens and a not insignificant portion of the economy? There is no doubt in my mind he will side with the anti 2A types and vote away our rights. I see no point in voting for him again when he's up, and have told his office so. At this point, the only thing that can help IMO is term limits with a lifetime ban on lobbyist jobs post term. I believe we are going to lose the 2A in the next 25 years, simply through attrition of shooters and massive ignorance about the foundation of this country and what liberty is all about. I'm going to be to old to fight when this all hits the fan. Hopefully I'll be able to evacuate to a nice quiet beach in some sleepy South American town or tropical island and laugh at the wailings of the idiots who realize to late just what they pissed away

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Rubio on Red Flag laws: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/12/opinion/rubio-gun-law.html

I'd bet they have a good chance of passing. To be blunt, the counter arguments from most gun folks are:

1. Too many false alarms
2. Can't infringe, even if you look nuts
3. Not enough due process
4. They won't work - even as we complain that some folks weren't reported

Those will not be convincing, Rubio says:


The laws do not infringe on the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding gun owners. In order for a state to be eligible for funding under our proposal, it would be required to enact strong due process protections and include a felony penalty for false reporting.

[YVK]

Rubio's constituents could forward him results of this study, done and funded by some of the loudest gun control proponents, that showed no impact of UBCs on anything

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1047279718306161?via%3Dihub

[HCountyGuy]

Rubio's constituents could forward him results of this study, done and funded by some of the loudest gun control proponents, that showed no impact of UBCs on anything

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1047279718306161?via%3Dihub

That right there’s the problem: Facts.

If the people chanting about these proposals were receptive of factual information, why they wouldn’t be making these preposterous and largely ineffective proposals. But “something must be done” and their ideas are the only reasonable ones.

[45dotACP]

So at what point is it ineffective to write senators and when are we, the gun owning collective going to start organizing rallies in D.C?

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[BWT]

So at what point is it ineffective to write senators and when are we, the gun owning collective going to start organizing rallies in D.C?

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Both. Do both.

ETA: Also, people gripe a lot - I posted a form letter back when 41F was going through the ATF had to read your comments for the proposed rule. 30 forums, I contacted dozens of Sheriffs, politicians, NRA, etc.

Who do I give money to? I’ll write / call congress people.

[Hambo]

Writing to my congressman and senators is a complete waste of time. Republicans all, they won't stand up against any of these proposals.