Beretta 1301 for interstate overlanding/remote 4x4 camping? Or maybe a Lever Action?

[DacoRoman]

Hello everybody.

I'm looking to get a good long gun for overlanding (fancy name for extended, remote, 4x4 touring and camping).

I detest CA's politics but I'll probably go through CA, including to visit some family. Mostly it will be through my home state of AZ, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, and maybe Montana.

As such I need a CA (and Colorado, now that I think of it) legal gun.

Handgun wise I'm considering carrying my G26, with no mag extensions, unloaded and locked in a box when traveling in the truck through CA. Incidentally, I think once one is camped one can open carry at a remote campsite in CA, although I'm still checking on this particular aspect of things. Anyway, that's incidental.

The reason for this post is that I think having a long gun, that can be kept unloaded in the back of the 4runner while driving, would be a great option.

A shotgun would address self defense needs for anything from snakes to black bears, to alien rabid elk, to would be murderous Manson Hippies. In other words, as we all know, a shotgun would be very versatile. This would be a vehicle weapon so I'm not that concerned about humping heavy shells around.

And, I really would like a semi-auto shotgun, just because.

I am thinking of the Beretta 1301. It seems like it's earlier issues have been addressed, either by Beretta or by Aridus Industries, et.al., but I'm still researching this and still going through the 1301 thread in this forum as well speak.

I need to confirm, but it also seems at this point that it is CA legal; still have to look up Colorado. I am still looking what kind of mag extension, if any, would be legal, but the stock 5+1 capacity would be fine.

Any of you know with any CA compliance issues? I would not put a pistol grip on it..I may want one of those regular Magpul shotgun stocks which ought not cause a problem.

Any Colorado issues? I would be surprised, but this still needs to be formally checked.

Of course, I am also wondering if, in fact, a Lever Action in 44 mag, or 30-30 would be better. Problem is, I have no familiarity with Lever Guns, and I want something that is GTG out of the box. I don't have the inclination to get a base gun and put custom money into it to build it out.

Where am I going wrong with my thinking, what am I missing, what else should I be looking at?

I put my thoughts into the crucible of pistol-forum.com, to be vetted and purified.

Here is a gratuitous picture of my simple overlanding rig. I'm trying to keep it very lightweight.

https://i.imgur.com/W8FTjt2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/H4SpWlL.jpg

[Suvorov]

Great photos. Love your rig. If you were a site member you could participate in our Overlanding thread. Looks like you have a lot to offer. Lots of 4Runner guys there too.

As far as a travel gun for Kali a semi-auto shotgun like the 1301 or an 11-87 is a perfect choice.

[Grouse870]

I say shotgun. More versatile, easier to find ammo (although .30-30 is very easy to find) better big animal protection imo. Plus you could find a clay range in travels

[fatdog]

My Benelli M1S90 (straight grip stock, 18.5" rifle sight bbl) was my long gun choice for a recent very long overland adventure in my 4Runner. No legal issues involved for me, it is just my first choice. I ran the gun in 3-gun for most of 15 years so I have a lot of comfort in it. Brenneke slugs for bear country, flight control 00 buck for any other threat.

Love the roof rig!

[mmc45414]

And maybe even the Comp, that sorta looks like a field gun:
42424

[DacoRoman]

Great photos. Love your rig. If you were a site member you could participate in our Overlanding thread. Looks like you have a lot to offer. Lots of 4Runner guys there too.

As far as a travel gun for Kali a semi-auto shotgun like the 1301 or an 11-87 is a perfect choice.

Many thanks.

I have actually just started really getting into the whole overlanding thing but I have a moderate amount of wheeling experience. I'll have to look into becoming a site member, that's really cool that there is an overlanding thread.

Thank you for the feedback regarding the boom stick choice as well. I'll take a look at the 11-87 as well.

[DacoRoman]

I say shotgun. More versatile, easier to find ammo (although .30-30 is very easy to find) better big animal protection imo. Plus you could find a clay range in travels

good points, thanks

[DacoRoman]

My Benelli M1S90 (straight grip stock, 18.5" rifle sight bbl) was my long gun choice for a recent very long overland adventure in my 4Runner. No legal issues involved for me, it is just my first choice. I ran the gun in 3-gun for most of 15 years so I have a lot of comfort in it. Brenneke slugs for bear country, flight control 00 buck for any other threat.

Love the roof rig!

Thanks!

I'll have to look at that Benelli as well. Where did your overland adventure take you?

[DacoRoman]

And maybe even the Comp, that sorta looks like a field gun:
42424

Yeah...and there's something practical and familiar about a vent. rib sight set up..I've actually never had a shotgun with a tactical sight set up, that'll be a lot of back and forth for me trying to decide, LOL...although I would like to potentially go with an Aimpoint T2 on it maybe, in which case the tactical version would be the way to go. I'm planning on getting this at Christmas so I have some time to go back and forth with myself, hehe.

[Suvorov]

Many thanks.

I have actually just started really getting into the whole overlanding thing but I have a moderate amount of wheeling experience. I'll have to look into becoming a site member, that's really cool that there is an overlanding thread.

Thank you for the feedback regarding the boom stick choice as well. I'll take a look at the 11-87 as well.

I’m in the same boat overlanding wise. As far as boomsticks go the 1301 seems to be favored by many here as well as the Benellis. I’ve run a 11-87 for years and it’s been good to me but other people have had issues. As far as out screwed up laws in Kalifornia go you are pretty much good to go with any semi-auto tube fed shotgun with one evil feature are OK - so you can go with a pistol grip if you want (but it must also have a full non collapsing stock).

[Grouse870]

Just to throw it out as an option
https://www.remington.com/shotguns/pump-action/model-870/model-870-express-turkey-camo
Toss in an IC choke and maybe some magpul furniture it might be another option.

[Clusterfrack]

Yes, nice rig! It’s way too clean though [emoji3].

I like my 1301, and wouldn’t hesitate to bring it on an overland trip.

[GearFondler]

Yeah...and there's something practical and familiar about a vent. rib sight set up..I've actually never had a shotgun with a tactical sight set up, that'll be a lot of back and forth for me trying to decide, LOL...although I would like to potentially go with an Aimpoint T2 on it maybe, in which case the tactical version would be the way to go. I'm planning on getting this at Christmas so I have some time to go back and forth with myself, hehe.Aridus may be releasing a CROM for the Comp in the near future... There was a treaser pic on FB and the guess was it would be for the Comp. It may not be that but you have the time to see.

Edit: I went back and looked at it and I was wrong... It was for the LTT collaboration. Sorry.

[backtrail540]

Ke arms has a mount for a micro for a comp

http://www.kearms.com/1301-comp-h1t1-mount

[fatdog]

Where did your overland adventure take you?

Wyoming, Absaroka Mountain Range, Bighorns, Medicine Bow NF, Green Mountain (http://s392.photobucket.com/user/Mark_Cubine/library/Western%20Trip%202019).

Wyoming is certainly one of those places that is indeed a 4wheel overland paradise. I could have done 2 months and not seen everything I wanted to.

[mmc45414]

Yeah...and there's something practical and familiar about a vent. rib sight set up..I've actually never had a shotgun with a tactical sight set up, that'll be a lot of back and forth for me trying to decide, LOL...although I would like to potentially go with an Aimpoint T2 on it maybe, in which case the tactical version would be the way to go.
I also shoot a lot of skeet and am thinking I want the Comp 21" (just one more safe queen to sell...), and it is drilled so if you wanted to go with precise sighting you could.
42429
I am also intrigued by the relieved loading port, and would rather not relieve the Tactical.


Ke arms has a mount for a micro for a comp
http://www.kearms.com/1301-comp-h1t1-mount
Nice mount, thanks for that.

[Suvorov]

Wyoming, Absaroka Mountain Range, Bighorns, Medicine Bow NF, Green Mountain (http://s392.photobucket.com/user/Mark_Cubine/library/Western%20Trip%202019).

Wyoming is certainly one of those places that is indeed a 4wheel overland paradise. I could have done 2 months and not seen everything I wanted to.

2 months? Hell 2 decades!

[txdpd]

I think this would be a good place for a 30-30. The slim profile of a lever gun (or a pump shotgun, which I know you didn’t ask about) makes it very easy to cram into tight places in a vehicle and still have it easily retrieved.

Realistically three month from now is that long gun going to afterthought that’s crammed behind the seats or something that you will still be consciously packing?

[RevolverRob]

A 1301 would be a good choice.

Though I definitely would consider a break action gun. The advantages of a break action gun - it’s generally another 3-4” shorter with an 18.5” barrel, it’s also easy to get into action (though a pump or semi-auto with the bolt back is too). Being able to quickly unload the gun also has advantages, if you’ll be doing any amount of administrative handling with the weapon.

My “50-state legal” road trip gun is a shortened H&R Topper 12-gauge. A butt-cuff with buckshot and I carry a few slugs and more buckshot with me.

[ldunnmobile]

I bought a 1301 about a year ago and freaking love it. And I’m not a shotgun guy but an AR guy. It’s pretty tough to beat and when you throw in legal restrictions it’s top of the food chain.

That said here in free country I slightly favor my 6.8 SPC 10.5” AR but that wouldn’t work for you.

[DacoRoman]

I’m in the same boat overlanding wise. As far as boomsticks go the 1301 seems to be favored by many here as well as the Benellis. I’ve run a 11-87 for years and it’s been good to me but other people have had issues. As far as out screwed up laws in Kalifornia go you are pretty much good to go with any semi-auto tube fed shotgun with one evil feature are OK - so you can go with a pistol grip if you want (but it must also have a full non collapsing stock).

10-4. Thanks for the info. I've read that the Langdon Tactical 1301's are compliant as well, correct? I don't know if I'd get that one, but I may want a mag extension.

[DacoRoman]

Yes, nice rig! It’s way too clean though [emoji3].

I like my 1301, and wouldn’t hesitate to bring it on an overland trip.

The pic with the tent deployed is when I got the lift, tires and tent put on. After a few outings it's dusty as all get out now :D My wife keeps bugging me to wash it...

great to know about the 1301..it seems to be well liked

[DacoRoman]

Just to throw it out as an option
https://www.remington.com/shotguns/pump-action/model-870/model-870-express-turkey-camo
Toss in an IC choke and maybe some magpul furniture it might be another option.

a very solid choice...but the gear geek in me has always wanted a semi auto shotgun!

[DacoRoman]

Aridus may be releasing a CROM for the Comp in the near future... There was a treaser pic on FB and the guess was it would be for the Comp. It may not be that but you have the time to see.

Edit: I went back and looked at it and I was wrong... It was for the LTT collaboration. Sorry.

No worries, thanks for the input. LTT as in Langdon Tactical? I'm starting to think that it may be worth just going full monty and getting the Langdon T.

[DacoRoman]

Ke arms has a mount for a micro for a comp

http://www.kearms.com/1301-comp-h1t1-mount

Nice.

What's the deal with cowitnessing the ghost sight on shotguns? Absolute vs lower 1/3?

[DacoRoman]

Wyoming, Absaroka Mountain Range, Bighorns, Medicine Bow NF, Green Mountain (http://s392.photobucket.com/user/Mark_Cubine/library/Western%20Trip%202019).

Wyoming is certainly one of those places that is indeed a 4wheel overland paradise. I could have done 2 months and not seen everything I wanted to.

Epic! Thanks for sharing the great pictures. I'll have to add Wyoming to the list.

[DacoRoman]

I also shoot a lot of skeet and am thinking I want the Comp 21" (just one more safe queen to sell...), and it is drilled so if you wanted to go with precise sighting you could.
42429
I am also intrigued by the relieved loading port, and would rather not relieve the Tactical.


Nice mount, thanks for that.

good info..intriguing...I'm really having a hard time even starting to decide on the sighting system..I need to stew over it some :D

To me a nice shotgun bead or fiber optic front sight has always worked great, and especially with a fiber optic front sight, it sort of works not too dissimilar to an RDS in some ways. I haven't shot slugs ever actually, but a ghost sight or RDS would be better for slugs I imagine, no?

[DacoRoman]

I think this would be a good place for a 30-30. The slim profile of a lever gun (or a pump shotgun, which I know you didn’t ask about) makes it very easy to cram into tight places in a vehicle and still have it easily retrieved.

Realistically three month from now is that long gun going to afterthought that’s crammed behind the seats or something that you will still be consciously packing?

The 30-30 lever gun is the other way I could go...yes, I've been debating between that and a 12 gauge.

This long gun, whether 30-30 or shotgun, would be my primary personal defense weapon while out in the boondocks overlanding, so your last comment doesn't really apply to my situation.

[DacoRoman]

A 1301 would be a good choice.

Though I definitely would consider a break action gun. The advantages of a break action gun - it’s generally another 3-4” shorter with an 18.5” barrel, it’s also easy to get into action (though a pump or semi-auto with the bolt back is too). Being able to quickly unload the gun also has advantages, if you’ll be doing any amount of administrative handling with the weapon.

My “50-state legal” road trip gun is a shortened H&R Topper 12-gauge. A butt-cuff with buckshot and I carry a few slugs and more buckshot with me.

Yeah that would definitely be a very practical "sleeper" for sure. Thanks for your thoughts.

[DacoRoman]

I bought a 1301 about a year ago and freaking love it. And I’m not a shotgun guy but an AR guy. It’s pretty tough to beat and when you throw in legal restrictions it’s top of the food chain.

That said here in free country I slightly favor my 6.8 SPC 10.5” AR but that wouldn’t work for you.

Good to hear it! Actually I think I'm exactly in your boat. I'm an AR and Glock guy. I have a .300 blackout SBR that I would love to take on the road, but alas I can't. So that's why I thought of a cool semi auto shotgun vs modernized tactical cowboy Lever ;D

[RevolverRob]

The 30-30 lever gun is the other way I could go...yes, I've been debating between that and a 12 gauge.

This long gun, whether 30-30 or shotgun, would be my primary personal defense weapon while out in the boondocks overlanding, so your last comment doesn't really apply to my situation.

Unlikely, but if you think you're going to be someplace where you may need to take a longer shot, a .30-30 loaded with LEVERevolution with a low-power variable optic on top is hard to beat as a weapon for use from 0-200 yards that is legal in most jurisdictions. In theory the FTX bullet can turn a .30-30 into a 300-yard gun, but it drops fast between 200 and 300 (if zero'ed at 200, Hornady say 12.1" of drop at 300). Still, compared to a good 'ole soft point, FTXs really stretch the old girl.

One of these days, when I'm not doing anything important, I'll send my pre-Remington Marlin 336 out to have the barrel chopped back to 16", mount a LPV scout scope, and work up a FTX load on the hot side that I can use to ring plates at 300 with for fun.

[GearFondler]

No worries, thanks for the input. LTT as in Langdon Tactical? I'm starting to think that it may be worth just going full monty and getting the Langdon T.Yes. I just finished piecing mine together and if I did it over I would go the Langdon route... It's not that it saves much money so much as it would save a lot of time and aggravation.

[JodyH]

My go damn near anywhere CONUS legally travel gun is a Steyr Scout Rifle in .308 topped with a Aimpoint T2 2moa.
In anti-gun states a bolt action isn't nearly as interesting to LE as a "tactical shotgun".
While slower to shoot you get faster reloads, plenty of punch and much longer reach.
I've found that most current production lever actions are rather fragile and easily jammed up if you don't keep them clean (too much cost cutting measures in them these days).

42468

[mtnbkr]

My go damn near anywhere CONUS legally travel gun is a Steyr Scout Rifle in .308 topped with a Aimpoint T2 2moa.
In anti-gun states a bolt action isn't nearly as interesting to LE as a "tactical shotgun".
While slower to shoot you get faster reloads, plenty of punch and much longer reach.
I've found that most current production lever actions are rather fragile and easily jammed up if you don't keep them clean (too much cost cutting measures in them these days).

That's a good idea. Some bolts can accept high cap magazines. My Savage has a 10rnd mag. Though, if buying for this purpose, I'd go with something less tactical looking than the Scout.

Chris

[RevolverRob]

My go damn near anywhere CONUS legally travel gun is a Steyr Scout Rifle in .308 topped with a Aimpoint T2 2moa.
In anti-gun states a bolt action isn't nearly as interesting to LE as a "tactical shotgun".
While slower to shoot you get faster reloads, plenty of punch and much longer reach.
I've found that most current production lever actions are rather fragile and easily jammed up if you don't keep them clean (too much cost cutting measures in them these days).

42468

I like a bolt. I also like a single-shot for it's compactness.

For instance here is a schnabel fore-end Ruger No. 1 in .257 Roberts (one of the best cartridges ever made) - https://ruger.com/products/no1/specSheets/21318.html

And here is a Ruger Scout rifle: https://ruger.com/products/scoutRifle/specSheets/6803.html

And to me what is interesting here - the No. 1 gets a 20" barrel and full-length fore-end, yet comes in 1-2.5" shorter than the 16.1" barreled Scout and roughly the same weight.

Of course I was all about that, until I saw that Ruger is offering a Scout in .450 Bushmaster - which in the wood stocked flavor reminds me something fierce of a Enfield No. 5 Jungle Carbine...

42472

[JodyH]

A Garand "T26 Tanker" from Fulton-Armory would be a pretty safe bet as well.
Wood stocked, 8 round clip fed .30-06 is nothing to sneeze at, overall length of 38" and weighs in at 8.5# with a 18" barrel.

[Malamute]

My inclination is towards a lever, Ive just never gotten very interested in shotguns for much of anything beyond shooting clays. Rifles always seemed more all around useful for the places ive lived.

Any of the winchester 94s post 64 are reasonably priced in general. At around the late 80s they went to the angle eject style which makes scope mounting very simple, I rather like them. If no interest in a scope, the top eject guns are fine for a side mount receiver sight. its a simple home job to install. Slings are simple, but many used guns may already be set up with one. Front sights are simple to change if desired.

I havent heard of any problems with later Winchester levers and reliability or cleaning, not sure what the issue would be. The basic Winchester 94 action is generally very reliable, and can go very long periods without much attention. They arent nearly as difficult to take apart as many claim, but then theres really little reason to take them apart in any event. Cleaning is simple with a muzzle guide. Its interesting that people often mention cleaning from the muzzle as a detriment with the Winchester 94, but not with M1 Garands and carbines, savage 99s, and a bunch of other guns. Its just a non-issue to me.

Marlins are OK, just dont interest me for a number of reasons, after owning a number of them over time.

The leverevolution ammo sales pitch is largely based on smoke and mirrors. They used different sight heights and zero distances as well as the worst possible BC bullet to compare with to make it look better. Using identical sight height and zero figures, and a bullet or load from almost any other maker, the differences are noticeably less than stated. Its fairly simple to zero about 2 or 2 1/2" high at 100 yards and have a very workable trajectory to about 250 yards without much trouble. 200 is just about right on with most loads so zeroed.

[Lester Polfus]

I think you're kind of into "six of one, half a dozen of the other" territory. I've got either a 12 gauge pump shotgun, and a .357 levergun that fits our boondocking trips. The shotgun has better ammo versatility. You can carry birdshot and such to use it as a foraging tool. The rifle has better range, although to be honest in real world applications, I doubt I'll ever need to zap somebody at 150 yards.

I would offer that you could buy a used Marlin 336, a red dot, a Hill People Gear levergun light mount, a buttstock ammo carrier, and a bunch of 30-30 ammo for the price that 1301 will run you.

One super handy option is the Marlin 336Y, the cut-down, youth model of the 336.

[Suvorov]

Although there is much hate out there these days in the tactical community - I would also say a M14 pattern rifle would give you a lot of capability. You will have plenty of power, range, accuracy, ability to lay down fire, and properly configured will give you 50 state legality.

[BillSWPA]

Having not researched the legalities in any of the relevant states, I would think something fed with a detachable box magazine would be advantageous. If the gun must be kept unloaded, then the speed with which it can be loaded s directly proportional to its usefulness. While I cannot comment on their reliability, I recall Remington making magazine-fed pump shotguns.

If you go this route, pay careful attention to the manner in which each state defines a loaded gun. In some states, the magazine must be in a separate compartment of a container, or a separate container, from the gun. In other really strict states, having a gun with compatible ammo anywhere in the same vehicle is considered loaded.

[DacoRoman]

Unlikely, but if you think you're going to be someplace where you may need to take a longer shot, a .30-30 loaded with LEVERevolution with a low-power variable optic on top is hard to beat as a weapon for use from 0-200 yards that is legal in most jurisdictions. In theory the FTX bullet can turn a .30-30 into a 300-yard gun, but it drops fast between 200 and 300 (if zero'ed at 200, Hornady say 12.1" of drop at 300). Still, compared to a good 'ole soft point, FTXs really stretch the old girl.

One of these days, when I'm not doing anything important, I'll send my pre-Remington Marlin 336 out to have the barrel chopped back to 16", mount a LPV scout scope, and work up a FTX load on the hot side that I can use to ring plates at 300 with for fun.

Thanks for that info. I have zero experience with the .30-30 but yeah I theoretically knew that it is at most a 300 yard round.

Not knowing much about lever guns I have to ask: if you had to start from scratch which Brand and Model Lever gun would you go with, Marlin, other? A 1-4 LPVO does sound good on rifle like that.

[DacoRoman]

Yes. I just finished piecing mine together and if I did it over I would go the Langdon route... It's not that it saves much money so much as it would save a lot of time and aggravation.

yes, I love saving time and aggravation!

[DacoRoman]

My go damn near anywhere CONUS legally travel gun is a Steyr Scout Rifle in .308 topped with a Aimpoint T2 2moa.
In anti-gun states a bolt action isn't nearly as interesting to LE as a "tactical shotgun".
While slower to shoot you get faster reloads, plenty of punch and much longer reach.
I've found that most current production lever actions are rather fragile and easily jammed up if you don't keep them clean (too much cost cutting measures in them these days).

42468

That is a nice rifle! I did briefly consider a bolt centerfire rifle..but I ultimately decided I would want to maximize capability from close quarters to 25 yards..and maybe out to 100 yards.

However the more I think about it, I would have no qualms about also putting a scout rifle like that in the back as well, in case I want to plink out to 400-450! I have a Burris XTRII 1-5x that would go nicely on a rifle like that. A nice slim rifle like that wouldn't take too much more space...although it would make it more of a pig weight wise if I put the Burris on it.

[DacoRoman]

That's a good idea. Some bolts can accept high cap magazines. My Savage has a 10rnd mag. Though, if buying for this purpose, I'd go with something less tactical looking than the Scout.

Chris

A detachable mag would be only one Dr. Evil feature, so it ought to be OK in even the most restrictive States, correct?

[GJM]

Scout in 6.5:

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2019/6/5/range-review-steyr-arms-scout-rifle-in-65-creedmoor/

[DacoRoman]

I like a bolt. I also like a single-shot for it's compactness.

For instance here is a schnabel fore-end Ruger No. 1 in .257 Roberts (one of the best cartridges ever made) - https://ruger.com/products/no1/specSheets/21318.html

And here is a Ruger Scout rifle: https://ruger.com/products/scoutRifle/specSheets/6803.html

And to me what is interesting here - the No. 1 gets a 20" barrel and full-length fore-end, yet comes in 1-2.5" shorter than the 16.1" barreled Scout and roughly the same weight.

Of course I was all about that, until I saw that Ruger is offering a Scout in .450 Bushmaster - which in the wood stocked flavor reminds me something fierce of a Enfield No. 5 Jungle Carbine...

42472

That Ruger Scout is certainly another contender...but with a flash hider and mag we are up to two Scary features...I can't believe we have to even consider such ridiculous things.

Speaking of Ruger, they also have that American Rifle Ranch bolt gun chambered in 5.56, 7.62x39, and 300 blkout. They say that it takes Mini 30 mags. That would be a nice contender. It does have a threaded barrel though, but I'm not sure if that is a feature that takes a ding since you can have that thread protector on there.
https://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/models.html

[DacoRoman]

A Garand "T26 Tanker" from Fulton-Armory would be a pretty safe bet as well.
Wood stocked, 8 round clip fed .30-06 is nothing to sneeze at, overall length of 38" and weighs in at 8.5# with a 18" barrel.

I'm going to take a look to see if they make these in .308...that would be sort of a holy grail dream gun, shorty Garand in .308! I bet it's expensive!

EDIT: does anyone other than Fulton Armory make one? Springfield?

[DacoRoman]

My inclination is towards a lever, Ive just never gotten very interested in shotguns for much of anything beyond shooting clays. Rifles always seemed more all around useful for the places ive lived.

Any of the winchester 94s post 64 are reasonably priced in general. At around the late 80s they went to the angle eject style which makes scope mounting very simple, I rather like them. If no interest in a scope, the top eject guns are fine for a side mount receiver sight. its a simple home job to install. Slings are simple, but many used guns may already be set up with one. Front sights are simple to change if desired.

I havent heard of any problems with later Winchester levers and reliability or cleaning, not sure what the issue would be. The basic Winchester 94 action is generally very reliable, and can go very long periods without much attention. They arent nearly as difficult to take apart as many claim, but then theres really little reason to take them apart in any event. Cleaning is simple with a muzzle guide. Its interesting that people often mention cleaning from the muzzle as a detriment with the Winchester 94, but not with M1 Garands and carbines, savage 99s, and a bunch of other guns. Its just a non-issue to me.

Marlins are OK, just dont interest me for a number of reasons, after owning a number of them over time.


The leverevolution ammo sales pitch is largely based on smoke and mirrors. They used different sight heights and zero distances as well as the worst possible BC bullet to compare with to make it look better. Using identical sight height and zero figures, and a bullet or load from almost any other maker, the differences are noticeably less than stated. Its fairly simple to zero about 2 or 2 1/2" high at 100 yards and have a very workable trajectory to about 250 yards without much trouble. 200 is just about right on with most loads so zeroed.

Thank you very much for the great info on something that I am not very familiar with. I'll be taking a look at some of those rifles. What caliber do you usually go for in a Lever Gun?
Edit: I probably be inclined to put a RDS if it was chambered in .357 or 44 mag, or even .44-70, and a 1-4 LPVO if it was a .30-30

[DacoRoman]

I think you're kind of into "six of one, half a dozen of the other" territory. I've got either a 12 gauge pump shotgun, and a .357 levergun that fits our boondocking trips. The shotgun has better ammo versatility. You can carry birdshot and such to use it as a foraging tool. The rifle has better range, although to be honest in real world applications, I doubt I'll ever need to zap somebody at 150 yards.

I would offer that you could buy a used Marlin 336, a red dot, a Hill People Gear levergun light mount, a buttstock ammo carrier, and a bunch of 30-30 ammo for the price that 1301 will run you.

One super handy option is the Marlin 336Y, the cut-down, youth model of the 336.

Yeah regarding range, that's what I was thinking too, that I need something optimal for 3-100 yards, with an emphasis on 3-25 yards. Hence the leaning toward a shotgun. Plus like you said, one can hunt anything from birds to Elk.

Great points on the cost issue. I would love it if I didn't spend more than $1500 on the gun, but $1000-1200 would be even better. Having said this if I found a .308 Tanker M-1 for $2500 (would this even run well though?), I could make it happen by trading in a few things :D

[DacoRoman]

Although there is much hate out there these days in the tactical community - I would also say a M14 pattern rifle would give you a lot of capability. You will have plenty of power, range, accuracy, ability to lay down fire, and properly configured will give you 50 state legality.

I like where this is going!

This would be awesome: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY M1A TANKER RIFLE
https://www.guns.com/news/2019/08/01/meet-the-new-springfield-armory-m1a-tanker-rifle

Would this be CA legal?

[DacoRoman]

Having not researched the legalities in any of the relevant states, I would think something fed with a detachable box magazine would be advantageous. If the gun must be kept unloaded, then the speed with which it can be loaded s directly proportional to its usefulness. While I cannot comment on their reliability, I recall Remington making magazine-fed pump shotguns.

If you go this route, pay careful attention to the manner in which each state defines a loaded gun. In some states, the magazine must be in a separate compartment of a container, or a separate container, from the gun. In other really strict states, having a gun with compatible ammo anywhere in the same vehicle is considered loaded.


Will certainly consider this. I was initially shying away from mags, even in bolt guns, thinking that it's a feature I could get persecuted for, but the ease of unloading and loading, if a mag is in play is huge.
Great points!

[Joe in PNG]

If it was me, I'd also look at a CZ-527 carbine in 7.62x39.

But I just think they're cool.

[DacoRoman]

If it was me, I'd also look at a CZ-527 carbine in 7.62x39.

But I just think they're cool.

I was vaguely aware of these. I'll take a look thanks.

[Joe in PNG]

Here you go. (https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/34009/cz-usa+527+762x39mm+bolt+action+carbine+w%2fblued+bar rel+%26+walnut+stock)

[Malamute]

Thank you very much for the great info on something that I am not very familiar with. I'll be taking a look at some of those rifles. What caliber do you usually go for in a Lever Gun?
Edit: I probably be inclined to put a RDS if it was chambered in .357 or 44 mag, or even .44-70, and a 1-4 LPVO if it was a .30-30

I tend towards the 30-30 for a general purpose gun. The pistol calibers are fine in appropriate actions, though not at their best in the Winchester 94 action, at least the 357 isnt. The model 92 Winchester type action or the marlin or other type, which to me would be older Winchester types, but theres more than one way to achieve the desired end result.

A single scope base can be mounted on the front receiver ring of the later 94 Winchesters (angle ejects) for a red dot, or theres short bases that mount just ahead of the receiver. I wouldnt be afraid to have an older 94 front receiver ring drilled and tapped for an angle eject front base for a red dot.

They made them in 20" carbines and the so-called trappers in 16" barrels. The 16" guns seem to get somewhat of a premium over the 20" guns. Ive cut a couple, its not rocket surgery. Getting the front sight back on is the hardest part. A decent local gunsmith said hed dovetail the barrel for a front sight for $40. The older 94 I had cut had a sweated/silver soldered front sight, i had a different gunsmith cut and reset the sight on that particular gun.

[Suvorov]

I like where this is going!

This would be awesome: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY M1A TANKER RIFLE
https://www.guns.com/news/2019/08/01/meet-the-new-springfield-armory-m1a-tanker-rifle

Would this be CA legal?

Yes. Looks basically like a Socom16 in wood. I had a Socom16 and I didn't really like it. It never shot real well so I sold it off. I eventually replaced it with a "Squad Scout" variant which I like a lot more and consider the optimum configuration for the M14 platform for general rifle use. A lot of negativity of late towards the M14 and M1A. Most of it is valid but needs to be taken in context (you are not looking to outfit an entire army and while at it replace 3 different weapon systems, kick ass at 3 gun, fire thousands of rounds per year, or expect sub MOA accuracy). For the purpose you were looking to fill - a vetted M14 pattern rifle would do a good job. I would caution going down the rabbit hole of mounting a scope to the thing though, but the iron sights are excellent and will take you out as far as you would need them. Pretty much all the rifles and shotguns mentioned in this thread will do the job amply - you just need to figure out which variables matter the most and how much you want to spend.

Other rifles that I would consider would be non-tactical version of the Mini14 and the SKS (most versions).

As for Kalifornia law - basically any semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine can not have any evil features, that includes pistol grips, flash hiders (muzzle brakes are OK), grenade launchers, or folding/collapsing stocks. Also you will be limited to 10 round magazines.

[Joe in PNG]

And here's the 527 in synthetic (cheaper too). (https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/cz-usa-527-carbine-7.62x39-bolt-action-rifle-18.5-barrel-5-round-detachable-box-magazine-fixed-sights-carbine-style-synthetic-stock-blued-finish/7-G03052.html)

[john c]

M1A/M14 style rifles need to have a muzzle break, rather than a flash hider in CA. Just something to watch.

Mini-14 or mini-30 rifles are a great choice. M1 garands are always a favorite choice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mtnbkr]

A detachable mag would be only one Dr. Evil feature, so it ought to be OK in even the most restrictive States, correct?

It's only 10rnds, so it should be ok. If not, the standard 3rnd mag is available.

Chris

[MolonLabe416]

This is very compact when broken down and handy to shoot. I’d probably add both this and the 1301. That’d give you a very versatile package. Adding a Ruger WC GP-100 might be interesting as well.

https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/1892-alaskan-take-down-357-mag-16-barrel-black-soft-touch-padded-stock-end.html

[nalesq]

If it was me, I'd also look at a CZ-527 carbine in 7.62x39.

But I just think they're cool.

I sort of want one and think they’re cool too. I just wish the safety didn’t feel backwards compared to every other weapon I have with a manual safety.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[nalesq]

Yes. Looks basically like a Socom16 in wood. I had a Socom16 and I didn't really like it. It never shot real well so I sold it off. I eventually replaced it with a "Squad Scout" variant which I like a lot more and consider the optimum configuration for the M14 platform for general rifle use. A lot of negativity of late towards the M14 and M1A. Most of it is valid but needs to be taken in context (you are not looking to outfit an entire army and while at it replace 3 different weapon systems, kick ass at 3 gun, fire thousands of rounds per year, or expect sub MOA accuracy). For the purpose you were looking to fill - a vetted M14 pattern rifle would do a good job. I would caution going down the rabbit hole of mounting a scope to the thing though, but the iron sights are excellent and will take you out as far as you would need them. Pretty much all the rifles and shotguns mentioned in this thread will do the job amply - you just need to figure out which variables matter the most and how much you want to spend.

Other rifles that I would consider would be non-tactical version of the Mini14 and the SKS (most versions).

As for Kalifornia law - basically any semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine can not have any evil features, that includes pistol grips, flash hiders (muzzle brakes are OK), grenade launchers, or folding/collapsing stocks. Also you will be limited to 10 round magazines.

I personally found M1A 10 round mags, due to the lack of leverage from their shortness to be harder to consistently rock and lock into the M1A than loading 8-round clips into the M1 Garand. So if I had to choose between a 10-round mag M1A and a normal M1 Garand, I’d rather sacrifice two rounds and have the better loading consistency of the Garand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Inkwell 41]

I'm going to take a look to see if they make these in .308...that would be sort of a holy grail dream gun, shorty Garand in .308! I bet it's expensive!

EDIT: does anyone other than Fulton Armory make one? Springfield?

Schuffs Mini G. http://shuffsparkerizing.com/services/the-mini-g/

30-06, 308 or 35 Whelen

Yet another thing I covet.

[DacoRoman]

This is very compact when broken down and handy to shoot. I’d probably add both this and the 1301. That’d give you a very versatile package. Adding a Ruger WC GP-100 might be interesting as well.

https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/1892-alaskan-take-down-357-mag-16-barrel-black-soft-touch-padded-stock-end.html

Wow...if I go Lever Action this thing is a vision of amazingness. I wish they had one in .30-30. They have .357 and .44 mag, and they do have one in .45-70. But I'm not sure .45-70 would be what is most practical, it may be too much gun? But it sure is a beautiful beast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnIaTPI7B24

[DacoRoman]

And here's the 527 in synthetic (cheaper too). (https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/cz-usa-527-carbine-7.62x39-bolt-action-rifle-18.5-barrel-5-round-detachable-box-magazine-fixed-sights-carbine-style-synthetic-stock-blued-finish/7-G03052.html)

Thanks!

It certainly seems like a great contender for sure.

[DacoRoman]

Schuffs Mini G. http://shuffsparkerizing.com/services/the-mini-g/

30-06, 308 or 35 Whelen

Yet another thing I covet.

Good to know it can be done! Thanks!

[DacoRoman]

Many thanks to everyone for all of your great input.

Here are a few more that just came up on my radar. Please let me know what you all think.

The Mossberg MVP Scout Rifle in .308. The great thing about this is that it takes AR10 mags which I have, and .308, which I also have and wouldn't need to stock a new caliber and mags. It would be nice just cutting the bullshit and going with a .308 too :o I'd love to put a 1-8x scope on it. I just don't know about quality. But the fact that it takes AR10 mags would be a huge plus for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg0iVl07xEk

Here's the Ruger American Ranch Bolt gun. This thing takes Mini30 mags which I don't have, but it seems like a very good package. 7.62x39 would be a great choice. 300 blackout would be great if it took AR mags as I already stock that caliber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZq4xiyoF8g&t=129s

[MolonLabe416]

Wow...if I go Lever Action this thing is a vision of amazingness. I wish they had one in .30-30. They have .357 and .44 mag, and they do have one in .45-70. But I'm not sure .45-70 would be what is most practical, it may be too much gun? But it sure is a beautiful beast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnIaTPI7B24

IMHO 45/70 is way too much gun in this context.

[DacoRoman]

IMHO 45/70 is way too much gun in this context.

Yeah if I went with one of the beauties from this company, a .44RemMag may be intriguing. They should offer a .30-30.

[DacoRoman]

Yes. Looks basically like a Socom16 in wood. I had a Socom16 and I didn't really like it. It never shot real well so I sold it off. I eventually replaced it with a "Squad Scout" variant which I like a lot more and consider the optimum configuration for the M14 platform for general rifle use. A lot of negativity of late towards the M14 and M1A. Most of it is valid but needs to be taken in context (you are not looking to outfit an entire army and while at it replace 3 different weapon systems, kick ass at 3 gun, fire thousands of rounds per year, or expect sub MOA accuracy). For the purpose you were looking to fill - a vetted M14 pattern rifle would do a good job. I would caution going down the rabbit hole of mounting a scope to the thing though, but the iron sights are excellent and will take you out as far as you would need them. Pretty much all the rifles and shotguns mentioned in this thread will do the job amply - you just need to figure out which variables matter the most and how much you want to spend.

Other rifles that I would consider would be non-tactical version of the Mini14 and the SKS (most versions).

As for Kalifornia law - basically any semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine can not have any evil features, that includes pistol grips, flash hiders (muzzle brakes are OK), grenade launchers, or folding/collapsing stocks. Also you will be limited to 10 round magazines.

Great info, many thanks.

I should look at the Mini14 or Mini30 again. I had a SS one in the early to mid 90s. I heard that the ones they have now are better. I've always poo poo'ed the SKS, but it would be a pretty practical and economical choice in fact. I used to work at a Turner's Outdoorsman in CA in the very early 90's as a very young adult and I remember buying a PolyTech AK for like 300 bucks on employee discount..and I remember the SKS's were dirt cheap, ah the good old days.

[Bigghoss]

OP, in case you're still wondering, the only caveat about Colorado is the 15-round magazine limit. So if it's legal in CA it's legal here.

My ideal CA semi-auto would be an unconverted SAIGA. They run about what a Mini-14/30 would cost, maybe a bit less (especially the 5.56), the SGM mags work and are available in 5-30 rounds, there are enhanced safeties that should work well with the Saiga import stocks, and the Magpul Zhukov forends are perfect for them. I'm keeping my eyes out for a 5.56 to set up like this for visiting family near LA metro.

My second choice would probably be an SCR (in .300 for your use) but good luck getting an unthreaded muzzle. A close 3rd would be a Mini-30, M1A, or M1 Garand but I'm not crazy about the safeties on them.

I had some SKS', the safety makes me nervous and there's no good way to attach anything. I sold them off.


Honestly I'd just get a .30-30 or .357 lever action and call it good enough.

[BobM]

Many thanks to everyone for all of your great input.

Here are a few more that just came up on my radar. Please let me know what you all think

Here's the Ruger American Ranch Bolt gun. This thing takes Mini30 mags which I don't have, but it seems like a very good package. 7.62x39 would be a great choice. 300 blackout would be great if it took AR mags as I already stock that caliber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZq4xiyoF8g&t=129s

I have the Ruger Ranch in 300 BO that takes AR mags. It shoots well so far with Hornady FMJ.

[That Guy]

That Ruger Scout is certainly another contender...but with a flash hider and mag we are up to two Scary features...I can't believe we have to even consider such ridiculous things.


The flash hider is removable (it was originally meant more as a placeholder, to be replaced with a muzzle device of the shooters choice), so as long as a threaded barrel isn't one of those "evil features", just replace it with a thread protector and you're good to go.

[mmc45414]

I have the Ruger Ranch in 300 BO that takes AR mags. It shoots well so far with Hornady FMJ.I have one too and I think it is pretty nifty. Put the Sig Romeo on it and it is kinda cool.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[DacoRoman]

OP, in case you're still wondering, the only caveat about Colorado is the 15-round magazine limit. So if it's legal in CA it's legal here.

My ideal CA semi-auto would be an unconverted SAIGA. They run about what a Mini-14/30 would cost, maybe a bit less (especially the 5.56), the SGM mags work and are available in 5-30 rounds, there are enhanced safeties that should work well with the Saiga import stocks, and the Magpul Zhukov forends are perfect for them. I'm keeping my eyes out for a 5.56 to set up like this for visiting family near LA metro.

My second choice would probably be an SCR (in .300 for your use) but good luck getting an unthreaded muzzle. A close 3rd would be a Mini-30, M1A, or M1 Garand but I'm not crazy about the safeties on them.

I had some SKS', the safety makes me nervous and there's no good way to attach anything. I sold them off.


Honestly I'd just get a .30-30 or .357 lever action and call it good enough.

Thanks for the Colorado specific info.

Saiga..intriguing, I will take a look. I had forgotten about them!

And I had no idea about the SCR! Thanks for the kindly tip.

Yeah a nice lever action certainly has appeal.

Thanks for the great input.

[DacoRoman]

I have the Ruger Ranch in 300 BO that takes AR mags. It shoots well so far with Hornady FMJ.

Nice..I had no idea that they had released a version that takes AR mags. That's huge.

Any issues with light primer strikes? I found some reports of this happening.

[DacoRoman]

OK Gents, and any lurking Gentleladies, here is where I am with this, at this juncture.

I have some time, as I will get this around Christmas time.

I think that for a versatile game and self defense solution out to 100 yards, with proper ammo selection, for anything from birds and snakes to large or dangerous animals, it will be hard to beat a good [semi auto] shotgun.

Hence my first priority will be a 1301, or possibly other shotgun iteration, but I think I’m good with the idea of getting a 1301.

But, I have decided to also get a bolt gun. I don’t have a bolt gun currently, and I would like a compact and lightweight rifle for medium to large game out to 200-300 yards.

Overlanding wise, I think I could comfortably carry a 12 gauge AND a Bolt Gun in the truck without too much inconvenience or drama. At camp the shotgun will be slung or within easy reach, and the bolt gun will be there in the truck for any longer range rifling needs that arise.

The only thing suboptimal about the shotgun will be that it will be slower to load at camp, but I will have a pistol along too.
On that note, I think I’ll just acquiesce and buy heathen 10 round mags for the G19 and/or G17, and take one of them along too instead of my G26. Only reason I was thinking of taking my G26 is because of the ammo capacity restriction issue, and not wanting to have to buy annoying 10 round G19/17 mags. I will keep this pistol in a lock box unloaded and the magazine separate. Loading this at camp will be quick and easy.

BTW, are the latest Glock 10 round G19/17 mags reliable? I had a few in the 90s when I was living in CA and I remember the follower having a tendency to get stuck on a few of them so I have a bias against them.

Lastly, I probably should start a thread, or look for an existing one, that covers scout or lightweight and compact bolt guns. I am looking at the Ruger American/Bolt Ranch rifles in 7.62x39 or 300blkout, and a few scouts in .308 including the Mossberg MVP Scout in .308 as it takes AR10 mags which I have already.
But, I am most intrigued by a Tikka T3X Lite Compact, that I would want to shorten the barrel to 16.5” like fella in a video I just saw did. Glass would be my Burris XTRII 1-5X, but for a .308 I’d be tempted to go 1-8x, or maybe 2.5-10x.

As a post scriptum let me just say that I will likely also eventually get a lever gun! I am too black rifle heavy and it is time to trade a few in for other fun and practical boom sticks!

edit: p.s. ii, the other category that I want to fill is what I'll call the "unoffensive semi-auto rifle" category, the "USAR" if you will...so I'll also be looking to eventually getting an M1A scout squad, Saiga, SCR, type of rifle...this seems like a great solution to have around to placate today's easily offended world of hoplophobes.

[Bigghoss]

I really want to like the MVP scout, but unless they've changed the bolt it's a no-go. Last I saw there was a flap on the bolt that flopped down via gravity to fit between the feed lips of the mags and pick up a cartridge. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong because I'd be really tempted to get one if the bolt didn't scare me so much.

https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/7-Mossberg-MVP.jpg

[DacoRoman]

I really want to like the MVP scout, but unless they've changed the bolt it's a no-go. Last I saw there was a flap on the bolt that flopped down via gravity to fit between the feed lips of the mags and pick up a cartridge. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong because I'd be really tempted to get one if the bolt didn't scare me so much.

https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/7-Mossberg-MVP.jpg

that does look hideous!

hold one, I'm going to start a new thread in the rifles and carbines section!

[Suvorov]

OP, in case you're still wondering, the only caveat about Colorado is the 15-round magazine limit. So if it's legal in CA it's legal here.

My second choice would probably be an SCR (in .300 for your use) but good luck getting an unthreaded muzzle. A close 3rd would be a Mini-30, M1A, or M1 Garand but I'm not crazy about the safeties on them.

.

Threaded barrels on semi auto rifles are fine in Kalifornia - what matters is what is threaded on them. Muzzle Brake = GO, Flash
Hider/Suppressor = No Go.

[Bigghoss]

Threaded barrels on semi auto rifles are fine in Kalifornia - what matters is what is threaded on them. Muzzle Brake = GO, Flash
Hider/Suppressor = No Go.

Thanks for the info. I'm even more tempted to get an SCR now.

[Malamute]

Threaded barrels on semi auto rifles are fine in Kalifornia - what matters is what is threaded on them. Muzzle Brake = GO, Flash
Hider/Suppressor = No Go.

And to expand on the features thing, Im not 100% positive, but I believe none of the evil features really matter if its a manually operated rifle. Bolt action with whatever magazine is legal to own, muzzle widget of choice, whatever shape stock one desires. I dont think theres any points per se. I expect to make a couple Cal visits to Death Valley and other similar desert areas. I expect a scoped angle eject Win 94 or a standard scoped bolt hunting rifle will do whatever may need done, but they would be mostly packed away most of the time except at camp as allowed under Cal laws for the specific area.

If its not going to be carried around or kept usable in a vehicle it probably doesnt matter how short it is, such as a standard M1A or M1 Garand wouldnt be much of a handicap compared to a super short version. Thats personal choice, Im not a fan of short barrels because of increased muzzle blast.

[mmc45414]

Last I saw there was a flap on the bolt that flopped down via gravity to fit between the feed lips of the mags and pick up a cartridge.
The Ruger has a three lug bolt that results in a shorter throw and leaves one of the lugs at the bottom in the position to strip rounds from the magazine:
42606

[Bigghoss]

The Ruger has a three lug bolt that results in a shorter throw and leaves one of the lugs at the bottom in the position to strip rounds from the magazine:
42606

The Ruger GSR also does this neat thing, it's a push feed but by the time the cartridge clears the feed lips or the magazine it's already a good ways into the chamber.

[DacoRoman]

Threaded barrels on semi auto rifles are fine in Kalifornia - what matters is what is threaded on them. Muzzle Brake = GO, Flash
Hider/Suppressor = No Go.

Excellent, good to know and thanks for the clarification.

[DacoRoman]

And to expand on the features thing, Im not 100% positive, but I believe none of the evil features really matter if its a manually operated rifle. Bolt action with whatever magazine is legal to own, muzzle widget of choice, whatever shape stock one desires. I dont think theres any points per se. I expect to make a couple Cal visits to Death Valley and other similar desert areas. I expect a scoped angle eject Win 94 or a standard scoped bolt hunting rifle will do whatever may need done, but they would be mostly packed away most of the time except at camp as allowed under Cal laws for the specific area.

If its not going to be carried around or kept usable in a vehicle it probably doesnt matter how short it is, such as a standard M1A or M1 Garand wouldnt be much of a handicap compared to a super short version. Thats personal choice, Im not a fan of short barrels because of increased muzzle blast.

Good points.

[DacoRoman]

Thanks for the info. I'm even more tempted to get an SCR now.

I also super intrigued by these. If they are GTG durability/reliability/performance wise, what a great idea to have one of these, more genteel, looking broomsticks in one's collection.

Have these developed a good track record as of yet?

[Joe in PNG]

It's a nice problem to have.

[DacoRoman]

The Ruger has a three lug bolt that results in a shorter throw and leaves one of the lugs at the bottom in the position to strip rounds from the magazine:
42606

That does look a lot more tidy and solid.

[willie]

I'm a lever action rifle guy and know a something about them. For this reason I do not recommend one for your purpose. The lever gun has a learning curve pertaining to unloading the chamber when there are rounds in the magazine tube. Further, unloading the mag tube of Marlins, Winchesters, and Rossi rifles requires working the lever to run the rounds through the action to be ejected. Browning makes an excellent lever action that uses a magazine. A used one might serve you nicely. I have had several and recommend them.

For a shotgun to be kept unloaded in your vehicle, consider a Stoeger Coach Gun which is a double barrel 12 or 20 gauge with 20 inch barrel. Shells kept on an elastic band attached to the stock would permit rapid loading. This gun with 20 inch barrel is shorter than a pump or semi auto with 20 inch barrel because the latter has a longer action. Too, the double is easily taken down and reassembled. Disassembled, the Coach Gun would fit in most duffel bags and many suit cases. Being light, it will kick like hell with heavy loads.

Your trip most likely will require that you stay in motels. Give thought to acceptable long gun luggage for transporting these weapons into the motel.

[Malamute]

I'm a lever action rifle guy and know a something about them. For this reason I do not recommend one for your purpose. The lever gun has a learning curve pertaining to unloading the chamber when there are rounds in the magazine tube. Further, unloading the mag tube of Marlins, Winchesters, and Rossi rifles requires working the lever to run the rounds through the action to be ejected...

The rounds need to be cycled through the action, but not chambered with Winchesters. I run the lever to push the shell forward enough that it comes clear of the cartridge guides in the receiver, then back the bolt open and pull the shell out by the rim with my fingertips. It works very easily on top ejects and is still workable on angle ejects.

One aspect of the Winchester I prefer regarding clearing the chamber and leaving the magazine loaded, if you eject the chambered round, the carrier (lifter) with the next feeding round can be pushed back down with the little finger and the bolt closed. Some are a bit balky, but with a little manipulation of the lever in and out a little they will close OK. Ive also polished the front edge of the lever, this makes it easier. This may sound like a small point, but one Ive found myself using quite a lot. Most of my guns live loaded full time. If I chamber a small game/grouse/snake load, or fire a round, I can reload the chamber with a light load again, or just clear the chamber for storage and transport. I hunt grouse with light loads and leave the magazine loaded with full power load.

A reminder that guns that dont like to be topped off once loaded can be fixed to load correctly regardless of how many rounds are in the magazine. Some have just accepted them not loading correctly and assumed thats just they way they are. Its not operating correctly if you cant easily load more rounds and theres zero real need to not load one all the way in each time when they work right. Older 94s, like pre-war, or any that are smoothed up from use should be very easy to load the magazine. Polishing the back side of the loading gate will allow them to work right.

The unloading by people not overly familiar with the lever action is a good reason for a crossbolt or tang safety. Im not generally a fan of them, but they serve a valid purpose in that instance.

Pretty clean used angle eject 94s seem to hang in the $400 price range on GB if one looks around a bit. Just a bit of general info for people figuring the options. The Leupold bases and rings seem the better option for a low scope mount that doesnt interfere with the hammer or loading and unloading directly to or from the chamber. The scope clears the rear sight and sits in a goo place to see through the scope without hunting around to find the image, at kleast it does for me. Many other base/ring combinations seem to sit too tall for that.

[That Guy]

The Ruger GSR also does this neat thing, it's a push feed

I'm pretty sure my Ruger Scout is controlled feed.

[mtnbkr]

I'm pretty sure my Ruger Scout is controlled feed.

It is. Or, at least, it has the giant Mauser claw extractor. The Ruger American series bolts are push-feed.

Chris

[Bigghoss]

I'm pretty sure my Ruger Scout is controlled feed.

A cursory google search says it is so I must be thinking of a different rifle.

[RevolverRob]

You don't have to run cartridges through a Marlin's action to eject them, at least not all of them. A chambered round must be ejected, but after that, with the lever down you can roll the gun sideways and dump the round that is on the elevator into your hand from the port, just like a shotgun. Then you can work the lever and repeat. Like a pump shotgun with the slide back, the lever must be down (bolt back) to pull the cartridge.

I won't say it's easy, because the port is small and the Marlin by being a solid-top gun just makes it harder to deal with. But it's possible. The Winchester works the same way as Malamute noted. If you can get a finger inside the Marlin ejection port you can push the elevator down like in a Winchester. But it's a pain in the ass, because of the size of the port.

[GJM]

Actually, with a properly set up Marlin 45-70, you can remove cartridges from the tube, by depressing the loading gate and allowing them to pop out, one at a time, like a shotgun tube.

[RevolverRob]

Actually, with a properly set up Marlin 45-70, you can remove cartridges from the tube, by depressing the loading gate and allowing them to pop out, one at a time, like a shotgun tube.

You can do the same with a 336. But it’s what I would describe as “a pain in the ass”. I don’t think I’ve ever successfully done it without drawing blood. You have to get practiced and do it quickly. The diameter of a .30-30 case head and the taper of the cartridge makes it harder still. You get the cartridge part way out and the shoulder hits the gate and it pops sideways, causing the bullet to get wedged at a 45-degree angle, part way out of the gate. Now you’re trying to finger fuck the loading gate, to loose the cartridge but it’s jammed, because the bullet nose is caught. So in a fit of frustration you grab the cartridge and rip it out. If you’re lucky you just mar the bullet and your crimp holds. If you’re unlucky the bullet pops loose and you sling gunpowder everywhere and have a damn bullet stuck in the loading gate.

Def prefer a shotgun in 12 or 20 in this regard, much easier to unload the tube.

I’d rather stick my fingers in a mousetrap than try to unload a .30-30 Marlin via the gate again.

[mmc45414]

42683
Buds is out of stock but shows them at $564. Considering it is sitting in a $270 stock that seems like a nice deal. Also available in 6.5C.

[DacoRoman]

I'm a lever action rifle guy and know a something about them. For this reason I do not recommend one for your purpose. The lever gun has a learning curve pertaining to unloading the chamber when there are rounds in the magazine tube. Further, unloading the mag tube of Marlins, Winchesters, and Rossi rifles requires working the lever to run the rounds through the action to be ejected. Browning makes an excellent lever action that uses a magazine. A used one might serve you nicely. I have had several and recommend them.

For a shotgun to be kept unloaded in your vehicle, consider a Stoeger Coach Gun which is a double barrel 12 or 20 gauge with 20 inch barrel. Shells kept on an elastic band attached to the stock would permit rapid loading. This gun with 20 inch barrel is shorter than a pump or semi auto with 20 inch barrel because the latter has a longer action. Too, the double is easily taken down and reassembled. Disassembled, the Coach Gun would fit in most duffel bags and many suit cases. Being light, it will kick like hell with heavy loads.

Your trip most likely will require that you stay in motels. Give thought to acceptable long gun luggage for transporting these weapons into the motel.

Thank you for your informative comments regarding the quirks of lever guns. Certainly gives me something to think about. The coach gun idea is intriguing indeed. I'm thinking that in CA the ammo may have to be "separate" from the gun while driving, as such I'm not sure what the authoritaay's would say about ammo being connected to the gun in any sort of way. I think that once stopped at the camp site, the most practical arm to get up to speed may be taking the pistol out of the lock box and feeding it a mag from the glove box. Then loading up a long gun.

I would try not to stay at motels since these would be remote 4x4 touring type of trips, however good point about any potential motel stays. Coming in with long guns in a discreet fashion is worth thinking about for sure. Having something some sort of take down model would be nice!

[DacoRoman]

The rounds need to be cycled through the action, but not chambered with Winchesters. I run the lever to push the shell forward enough that it comes clear of the cartridge guides in the receiver, then back the bolt open and pull the shell out by the rim with my fingertips. It works very easily on top ejects and is still workable on angle ejects.

One aspect of the Winchester I prefer regarding clearing the chamber and leaving the magazine loaded, if you eject the chambered round, the carrier (lifter) with the next feeding round can be pushed back down with the little finger and the bolt closed. Some are a bit balky, but with a little manipulation of the lever in and out a little they will close OK. Ive also polished the front edge of the lever, this makes it easier. This may sound like a small point, but one Ive found myself using quite a lot. Most of my guns live loaded full time. If I chamber a small game/grouse/snake load, or fire a round, I can reload the chamber with a light load again, or just clear the chamber for storage and transport. I hunt grouse with light loads and leave the magazine loaded with full power load.

A reminder that guns that dont like to be topped off once loaded can be fixed to load correctly regardless of how many rounds are in the magazine. Some have just accepted them not loading correctly and assumed thats just they way they are. Its not operating correctly if you cant easily load more rounds and theres zero real need to not load one all the way in each time when they work right. Older 94s, like pre-war, or any that are smoothed up from use should be very easy to load the magazine. Polishing the back side of the loading gate will allow them to work right.

The unloading by people not overly familiar with the lever action is a good reason for a crossbolt or tang safety. Im not generally a fan of them, but they serve a valid purpose in that instance.

Pretty clean used angle eject 94s seem to hang in the $400 price range on GB if one looks around a bit. Just a bit of general info for people figuring the options. The Leupold bases and rings seem the better option for a low scope mount that doesnt interfere with the hammer or loading and unloading directly to or from the chamber. The scope clears the rear sight and sits in a goo place to see through the scope without hunting around to find the image, at kleast it does for me. Many other base/ring combinations seem to sit too tall for that.

great info thanks!

[DacoRoman]

42683
Buds is out of stock but shows them at $564. Considering it is sitting in a $270 stock that seems like a nice deal. Also available in 6.5C.

That does look pretty tough. Great price too. I'll take a closer look, need to see its weight!

[willie]

You could easily keep two shotgun shells in a pocket or use a 2 shell holder fitting on a waist belt. Skeet/trap shooting supply vendors sell these. I occasionally use hard eyeglass cases to contain pistol magazines. These would hold a few shotgun shells also. A box store Mossberg pump might serve your purpose nicely. These are available in security versions. Inexpensive, they work. If lost or stolen, you would not be heavily penalized from a cost standpoint. A simple small metal tool box with a hasp might work well as a way to lock up handguns should that be necessary. The tool box would not telegraph handgun to nosy people or cops peeking into your vehicle. In my part of the world most cops would like to chat about guns once they saw that they posed no threat. If not, they still would not likely ask a bunch of questions or inquire. You, on the other hand, are traveling into and through places where you can't assume how others view firearms. Too, while attempting to comply, you could still make an error and commit an infraction. Maybe. Maybe not. You see my point. For any new purchases you may wish to carry receipts with you.

[DacoRoman]

You could easily keep two shotgun shells in a pocket or use a 2 shell holder fitting on a waist belt. Skeet/trap shooting supply vendors sell these. I occasionally use hard eyeglass cases to contain pistol magazines. These would hold a few shotgun shells also. A box store Mossberg pump might serve your purpose nicely. These are available in security versions. Inexpensive, they work. If lost or stolen, you would not be heavily penalized from a cost standpoint. A simple small metal tool box with a hasp might work well as a way to lock up handguns should that be necessary. The tool box would not telegraph handgun to nosy people or cops peeking into your vehicle. In my part of the world most cops would like to chat about guns once they saw that they posed no threat. If not, they still would not likely ask a bunch of questions or inquire. You, on the other hand, are traveling into and through places where you can't assume how others view firearms. Too, while attempting to comply, you could still make an error and commit an infraction. Maybe. Maybe not. You see my point. For any new purchases you may wish to carry receipts with you.

Seems like well thought out advice to me! Thanks!

[RevolverRob]

When I use a shotgun as a travel weapon - I put two shells (both slugs), in a little pouch that has velcro on it. It sticks to the inside of the pocket of the vest I wear that conceals my handgun.

If I have to retrieve my shotgun out of the trunk, I can rapidly pop the gun open and go. Remember I typically use a break action gun, but a pump or semi-auto with the bolt back is a drop and go affair also.

[littlejerry]

42683
Buds is out of stock but shows them at $564. Considering it is sitting in a $270 stock that seems like a nice deal. Also available in 6.5C.

I'd love to hear about any first hand experience with the Ruger American(either Magpul or standard Predator config) if anyone has some. The price is very appealing, but I had a really disappointing experience with a Ruger American Rimfire and I'm not keen on buying another budget Ruger product.

[MistWolf]

I just got back from California after attending Robinson Helicopter School. You cannot buy ammo in California without a California ID and it's illegal to bring ammo in from out of state.

[mtnbkr]

I just got back from California after attending Robinson Helicopter School. You cannot buy ammo in California without a California ID and it's illegal to bring ammo in from out of state.

What does an out-of-state hunter do?

Chris

[HCM]

42683
Buds is out of stock but shows them at $564. Considering it is sitting in a $270 stock that seems like a nice deal. Also available in 6.5C.

That pig has a much heavier barrel than the Ruger American predator.

The predator has a medium weight barrel that can be used off hand as a hunting rifle or as a bipod type gun. The model you linked is not going to be useful other than off a bipod.

[Caballoflaco]

I just got back from California after attending Robinson Helicopter School. You cannot buy ammo in California without a California ID and it's illegal to bring ammo in from out of state.

That law about bringing ammo into California only applies to residents of California from everything I’ve found about the law online.

[mmc45414]

That pig has a much heavier barrel than the Ruger American predator.
While obviously thicker, I really was surprised it is as much as it is.
44403

[MistWolf]

That law about bringing ammo into California only applies to residents of California from everything I’ve found about the law online.

I hope you're right. The gunshops I visited told me it was illegal for anyone to bring ammo in from another state.

When I asked about buying ammo, they asked me if I had bought a firearm (in California) during the last five years and if not, if I had taken some class. I also had to have a California ID. I think it had to be the new "super" ID or something. I've always joked about California being the Occupied Territories, but it wasn't until this last trip that I felt the truth of it so keenly.

[HCM]

While obviously thicker, I really was surprised it is as much as it is.
44403

Very noticeable as soon as you pick it up.

I was pretty disappointed.