Small concealable, with hammer?

[Cory]

Simple question, but I don't know who to really ask so I'm asking everyone here.

What is a small concealable revolver with a hammer? Preferably J frame size. 38 Special only (357 potentially, but I'm not stupid enough to shoot .357s through a small revolver).

I carry a 92, and have a very strong preference for the ability to thumb the hammer during reholster. I'm not buying soon, but trying to fill in an actual needs list. I don't have anything below a full size handgun for carry. I think a small concealable revolver would be ideal.

The more I thought about it, the more the lack of a hammer to thumb during reholster really bothered me. The pistol would likely be AIWB (if possible occasional pocket carry or ankle carry though unlikely). I'm very conscious of my reholster technique and take exaggerated measures to ensure I'm safe. But the more I think about it, the less I like the idea of choosing a gun with one less layer of safety during reholster. Train, train, train and concrete in movements that prevent catastrophe. Got it. This would be an occasional carry gun that isn't as high a priority for training and if possible to have a similar technique to my 92 that's a plus.

I had long since decided that 642 would do the trick if I got the funds together to grab one.I liked the idea of the 642 because it's lightweight, stainless steel, and can be had with no internal lock, and small. Is there something else that is in a similar position (possibly with better sights?) that would fit in this role? I don't know the smith numbers too well and I'm probably over looking something obvious.

Thanks.

-Cory

[MolonLabe416]

https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/model-638

[RevolverRob]

Smith 360.

Has the benefit of being the cheapest of the Scandium guns, has a hammer, pinned front sight that can be swapped. Also can chambered .357, not that you want to shoot that.

There is the 360PD, 360 M&P, and 360J

Be aware a hammer spur can and will get caught on clothing. If I had a 360, I would bob the hammer. You can still ride the bobbed hammer into the holster.

[Cory]

Smith 360.

Has the benefit of being the cheapest of the Scandium guns, has a hammer, pinned front sight that can be swapped. Also can chambered .357, not that you want to shoot that.

There is the 360PD, 360 M&P, and 360J

Be aware a hammer spur can and will get caught on clothing. If I had a 360, I would bob the hammer. You can still ride the bobbed hammer into the holster.


Does bobbing a hammer create any issues with reliable ignition?

-Cory

[TC215]

Does bobbing a hammer create any issues with reliable ignition?

-Cory

It can if too much mass is removed.

S&W has made a few special 637 models with factory bobbed hammers.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/818605627

If it was me, I’d look at the 638/438.

[Cory]

It can if too much mass is removed.

S&W has made a few special 637 models with factory bobbed hammers.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/818605627

If it was me, I’d look at the 638/438.

The 638/438 don't look like they allow for the same type of thumb on hammer reholster technique I use, where the thumb physically prevents the hammer from moving/the trigger being pulled.

The 637 with a bob looks like what I was picturing. The alloy frame might be better than the lighter options as well (for shooting anyway).

-Cory

[ragnar_d]

If an external hammer to pin is a requirement, the LCR/642/442 are out for you as they're all internal hammers that are completely enclosed within the gun.

On the 638, there is enough of a spur on the pin the hammer in place when holstering. I don't have mine handy, but I'll take a photo tonight after I get the wee one fed and to bed if someone doesn't beat me to it. If you want a factory bobbed hammer, the only ones I can think of right now are the Colt Night Cobra (https://www.colt.com/detail-page/night-cobra-38spl-32), the Taurus 856 Concealed Hammer (https://www.taurususa.com/firearms/revolvers/856ch/), and the Charter Arms Undercover (https://charterfirearms.com/collections/undercover). I believe the first two are both are larger than a J-frame (6-shot cylinders), I don't know about the CA Undercover.

[Cory]

If an external hammer to pin is a requirement, the LCR/642/442 are out for you as they're all internal hammers that are completely enclosed within the gun.

On the 638, there is enough of a spur on the pin the hammer in place when holstering. I don't have mine handy, but I'll take a photo tonight after I get the wee one fed and to bed if someone doesn't beat me to it. If you want a factory bobbed hammer, the only ones I can think of right now are the Colt Night Cobra (https://www.colt.com/detail-page/night-cobra-38spl-32), the Taurus 856 Concealed Hammer (https://www.taurususa.com/firearms/revolvers/856ch/), and the Charter Arms Undercover (https://charterfirearms.com/collections/undercover). I believe the first two are both are larger than a J-frame (6-shot cylinders), I don't know about the CA Undercover.

I had thought the 442 would be ideal, before I realized how much the thumb on hammer gives me the warm and fuzzy and that I'd hate to miss it.

Looks like a bobbed hammer is the ticket, as apparently it's the only hammer that can be pinned, but is also is snag free.

I didn't realize the humpbacks could be held down with a thumb. That gives me multiple choices. Don't worry about the photo. I know free time after bed is precious, and if you say it can be thumbed I believe you.

-Cory

[TC215]

I had thought the 442 would be ideal, before I realized how much the thumb on hammer gives me the warm and fuzzy and that I'd hate to miss it.

Looks like a bobbed hammer is the ticket, as apparently it's the only hammer that can be pinned, but is also is snag free.

I didn't realize the humpbacks could be held down with a thumb. That gives me multiple choices. Don't worry about the photo. I know free time after bed is precious, and if you say it can be thumbed I believe you.

-Cory

I will second ragnar_d, there should be enough spur there to accomplish what you want.

[Bigghoss]

I don't know if anyone still makes them, but I've seen grips for J-frames that have built-in hammer shrouds.

[Hambo]

I had thought the 442 would be ideal, before I realized how much the thumb on hammer gives me the warm and fuzzy and that I'd hate to miss it.

Looks like a bobbed hammer is the ticket, as apparently it's the only hammer that can be pinned, but is also is snag free.

I didn't realize the humpbacks could be held down with a thumb. That gives me multiple choices. Don't worry about the photo. I know free time after bed is precious, and if you say it can be thumbed I believe you.

-Cory

I think that your concern may be much ado about nothing. Remember that the cylinder must turn to fire and that the trigger pull is really long even in a J frame. So I did an experiment with my unloaded 442 and a JMCK appendix holster. I was not wearing the holster, only testing to see if the trigger could be pulled on holstering. With my finger on the trigger it was a no-go. I then stuck a Zebra pen through the trigger guard because it's thinner than my fingers and it was a no-go. Next, I balled up enough t-shirt to fill in the trigger guard, but when I tried to jam it in the holster is started to force the kydex apart without pulling the trigger.

[ragnar_d]

No worries, man. Just grabbed it out of the pocket holster and snapped a quick photo. There’s enough there to ride the hammer in. I bought this little guy 10-11 years ago for the same reason you’re thinking about (thumb riding the hammer when holstering).
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190907/5ebe09b885d8acf0aaca46bdd77ff49d.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190907/a412b2bf2c2168de15ec7a50e2f866be.jpg




I don't know if anyone still makes them, but I've seen grips for J-frames that have built-in hammer shrouds.
I’ve seen those in one of my Facebook groups. I think they were done by Bianchi. There are times I do curse at not being born a decade or two earlier and missing out on the interesting revolver stuff from before my time. At least there’s guys out there sharing this stuff with us young pups.



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[BehindBlueI's]

https://ruger.com/products/lcrx/specSheets/5430.html

https://ruger.com/productImages/5430/detail/1.jpg

[mmc45414]

638 is still my favorite, wish there was a 338. I might get one of the titanium cylinders for my 638...

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[camsdaddy]

I have a model 60 with a bobbed hammer. I have not had any ignition problems. I just purchased a dao SP101 with a bobbed hammer. These may be heavier than you are looking for but iwb they won't be bad.
42301

[RevolverRob]

Does bobbing a hammer create any issues with reliable ignition?

-Cory

It can, but in Smiths not usually unless the mainspring is also lightened significantly.

If you watch the video here about 1:29 you can see what the hammer looks like just after the hammer spur is chopped off. You can honestly stop there and just clean up the edge from the cut and be fine. The more aggressive bob the gunsmith does isn't really necessary, but looks nice aesthetically.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXpEUEaJZkI

[beenalongtime]

I've handled a Ruger LCR, and a S&W 638, and liked the trigger on the Ruger a bit better. (didn't have the money at the time for either) I am leaning towards a Ruger LCR model 5401 or a Colt Night Cobra, when I get a stubby.
They were only a want, and the money was going towards ammo.
However, now I have a full size GP100, that I am debating about bobbing the hammer, and at the same time, know an elderly woman, who has her Ex's (and daughters now), thirty eight, and this thread makes me also wonder about ammo choices. (no .38 listing in doc's chart)
Because if I bob the hammer, I expect I would want to test it, in the process.

[RevolverRob]

I've handled a Ruger LCR, and a S&W 638, and liked the trigger on the Ruger a bit better. (didn't have the money at the time for either) I am leaning towards a Ruger LCR model 5401 or a Colt Night Cobra, when I get a stubby.
They were only a want, and the money was going towards ammo.
However, now I have a full size GP100, that I am debating about bobbing the hammer, and at the same time, know an elderly woman, who has her Ex's (and daughters now), thirty eight, and this thread makes me also wonder about ammo choices. (no .38 listing in doc's chart)
Because if I bob the hammer, I expect I would want to test it, in the process.

For guns with <3” barrels -

.38 for recoil sensitive - the 148-grain Federal Match Wadcutter. It won’t expand but it will give a reliable 15” of penetration through 4-layers of denim.

If a bonded load is necessary for intermediate barriers the only two choices are the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel or Winchester Ranger bonded (the PDX-1 bonded should be identical to the Ranger).

The Critical Defense and Barnes XPB perform okay from 2” guns, but often do not shoot to the sights on J-Frames. The Remington 158-grain lead-semi-wadcutter-hollow-point (LSWHP or LHP) in +P loading remains an effective round if heavy clothing and/or barriers are not a concern.

For 3”+ guns -

Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel
Winchester Ranger Bonded/PDX1
Remington +P LHP
Speer Gold Dot non-short barrel loads in 158-grain weights

All of these work sufficiently well in longer barreled .38 Special guns.

At the end of the day - 148-grain Wadcutters often allow the recoil sensitive to get good hits. Right now my “mother’s” (read: my ‘borrowed’) 3” Detective Special is loaded with wadcutters and she has a couple of speedloaderd with GD Short Barrel.

My 2” Colt Cobra is loaded with GD SB.

[03RN]

I too like having a hammer. I can see it having problems for pocket carry but I don't pocket carry so...

Anyways. I'm not sure if k frames are more or less sensitive to hammer weight but I've cut 3 hammers. One completely and two partially so it's still usable. No issues with light primer strikes.

[358156hp]

I've seen the newer MIM hammers in J frames. They have weight reduction cuts in the sides (skeletonizing) that would make me think twice about bobbing one. I'm sure somebody here has done it, what did you find? The hammer shown in the Midway video is the old style steel hammer that's not made anymore.

[jetfire]

I would definitely get an LCRx. I have one in 3 inch that I carry on a regular basis. If having a hammer spur is important, it’s the best choice on the market.

[10mmfanboy]

I've been thinking about this too, not too many options for a small hammer fired pistol other than revolvers. I was even looking into sccy cpx2 because that is supposed to be about 15 oz, but I don't find any sight options or aftermarket goodies. I think the ruger security 9 is hammer fired, LCP is too.

[Duelist]

Simple question, but I don't know who to really ask so I'm asking everyone here.

What is a small concealable revolver with a hammer? Preferably J frame size. 38 Special only (357 potentially, but I'm not stupid enough to shoot .357s through a small revolver).

I carry a 92, and have a very strong preference for the ability to thumb the hammer during reholster. I'm not buying soon, but trying to fill in an actual needs list. I don't have anything below a full size handgun for carry. I think a small concealable revolver would be ideal.

The more I thought about it, the more the lack of a hammer to thumb during reholster really bothered me. The pistol would likely be AIWB (if possible occasional pocket carry or ankle carry though unlikely). I'm very conscious of my reholster technique and take exaggerated measures to ensure I'm safe. But the more I think about it, the less I like the idea of choosing a gun with one less layer of safety during reholster. Train, train, train and concrete in movements that prevent catastrophe. Got it. This would be an occasional carry gun that isn't as high a priority for training and if possible to have a similar technique to my 92 that's a plus.

I had long since decided that 642 would do the trick if I got the funds together to grab one.I liked the idea of the 642 because it's lightweight, stainless steel, and can be had with no internal lock, and small. Is there something else that is in a similar position (possibly with better sights?) that would fit in this role? I don't know the smith numbers too well and I'm probably over looking something obvious.

Thanks.

-Cory

If you want a Jframe S&W with a hammer to carry, get a 637 or 638. Unless you want the absolute lightest version, then get the 3xx that is analogous to the standard or Bodyguard style, as you prefer.

I have a 642. It works fine, but no hammer. Were to buy another J today, it may well have a hammer.

[Polecat]

Really nice from Smith is the 37-2 DAO, hard to find but only 13.5 oz, with a grip, like 12 without the grip! Taurus makes ‘em as “CH” models with concealed hammer. The come in both 85 5 shot modes or 856 6 shot models. They are in 16 oz. range. Other option is cut spur off any hammered J frame and bingo!

[Polecat]

Absolute smallest is the Taurus “view” at only 9 ozwith much abbreviated and no doubt painful grip!! Have be discontinued. They were chambered in .38, which is way too much with such light weight and tiny grip. They should reintroduce these in .22 WMR like 8 rounds and .32 Mag.

They also offer their CH in .380.

I just bought a CH Ultralite this weekend 249.00 and there is a rebate for $25 bucks. I like the 6 rounds in a J frame size, I like the pinned front sight. Grips seem nice, they cover the backstrap, I am nervous because it is... a Taurus. Years back I had an 85 Ti UL that would bind when it heated up after 20-25 rounds.

[Drifting Fate]

Another person here who finds the S&W Bodyguard to be the best of all worlds.

To note, this is the J-frame version, not the small, partial plastic abortion S&W gave the venerable name to.

As such, I stick with the .38spl cartridge. Wadcutters are pleasant to shoot and a good option if you are on your game, though I will default to the Speer GP 135grn HPs 9 out of 10 times.

There is a lot to be said for the .327FM, though. It usually gives an extra round, will typically do as much work as the .38spl, with a slightly lighter recoil impulse. Ammo availability and cost are the downsides, but this isn't the type of gun you will need to feed without forethought.

Best of luck!

[Chuck Whitlock]

Two that are available from the factory that are not mentioned above:

https://www.colt.com/detail-page/king-cobra-carry

https://ruger.com/products/sp101/specSheets/5720.html

Both are all stainless steel and .357 Magnum. I have this version of the SP101 and thumbing the hammer works great.

I don't recall if you mentioned light weight as one of your criteria, in which case these would be less than optimal. Magnums are actually not all that punishing out of the SP101.

[Rex G]

My small 2”-barrel, hammer, revolving pistol is an S&W 631; .32 H&R, six-shot. Yes, a Ladysmith. I, who carried a Model 629, as a rookie, to earn my man card, can carry a Ladysmith J-.32. All-stainless steel, because little + light = hurts to shoot. This little one is my right hand’s last best hope to keep shooting truly sub-compact centerfire handguns, most of which seem to directly target the base joint of my thumb. (Bigger grips, wrapping around the backstrap, would make it no longer sub-compact, in the SP101 size envelope.)

My somewhat larger hammer guns are SP101 Rugers, one 4” .32 H&R, and the rest 2.25” to 3.08” .357 Magnum. Two have spurs on the hammers. The tiny spur on the SP101 hammer is so very small, it is of little bother. To be clear, however, pocketing an SP101 will not work, with many trousers’ pockets.

[Rex G]

Seecamp autos are hammer-fired. These are niche guns, but, well, that niche may be just-right for some folks, at least some of the time.

The magazine release is the heel-clip type.

No sights. Silhouetting the weapon, against a target, works, at close range, but will have its limitations if one needs to hit a truly vital anatomical target.

We have his-and-hers LWS-32 pistols, but neither of us carry them regularly.

IMHO, these Little Seecamps fall a bit short of truly fulfilling Rule One of Gunfighting.

[jetfire]

Another person here who finds the S&W Bodyguard to be the best of all worlds.

To note, this is the J-frame version, not the small, partial plastic abortion S&W gave the venerable name to.

As such, I stick with the .38spl cartridge. Wadcutters are pleasant to shoot and a good option if you are on your game, though I will default to the Speer GP 135grn HPs 9 out of 10 times.

There is a lot to be said for the .327FM, though. It usually gives an extra round, will typically do as much work as the .38spl, with a slightly lighter recoil impulse. Ammo availability and cost are the downsides, but this isn't the type of gun you will need to feed without forethought.

Best of luck!

Taurus’ utter disinterest in anything that resembles quality control means they’re an automatic no-go for serious defensive tools. If people want to buy one for the novelty value, go right ahead. But I wouldn’t bet my life on them.

[Cory]

Taurus’ utter disinterest in anything that resembles quality control means they’re an automatic no-go for serious defensive tools. If people want to buy one for the novelty value, go right ahead. But I wouldn’t bet my life on them.

I completely agree.

-Cory

[Drifting Fate]

Taurus’ utter disinterest in anything that resembles quality control means they’re an automatic no-go for serious defensive tools. If people want to buy one for the novelty value, go right ahead. But I wouldn’t bet my life on them.

I completely agree, but not sure why you quoted me? Not trying to pick a fight, but I directly mentioned S&W and indirectly referenced Ruger. If I somehow gave the impression I was promoting or recommending Taurus, my apologies.

[Joe in PNG]

Had a hammer spur break on an older Model 36 a few years ago, so I filed and ground it down.
Worked just fine, but it was a pre-lock, pre-mim 36.

[Jim Watson]

I checked it out. Not hard to thumb the shrouded hammer of a M38 into pants pocket.

A friend bobbed the hammer of a Taurus 85, misfires ensued. He crammed in a J Smith spring and got it shooting but trigger pull was tough.

[JimCunn]

Duplicate Post

[JimCunn]

I've got three 637-2 J-frames converted to titanium 9mm cylinders.
They also have .titanium 38Sp/.357Mag cylinders.42390

[BehindBlueI's]

I completely agree, but not sure why you quoted me? Not trying to pick a fight, but I directly mentioned S&W and indirectly referenced Ruger. If I somehow gave the impression I was promoting or recommending Taurus, my apologies.

Probably a mis-click and meant to quote the one above yours.

[JPedersen]

I've got three 637-2 J-frames converted to titanium 9mm cylinders.
They also have .titanium 38Sp/.357Mag cylinders.42390What is involved with that process exactly ? Where did you source the cylinders? I know the bore diameter is close enough for a 9mm conversion - but what sort of accuracy have you noticed ? I thought there could potentially be down sort of "tolerance stacking" effect. I think a light 9mm jframe would be slick !


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[Hi-Point Aficionado]

I've been thinking about this too, not too many options for a small hammer fired pistol other than revolvers. I was even looking into sccy cpx2 because that is supposed to be about 15 oz, but I don't find any sight options or aftermarket goodies. I think the ruger security 9 is hammer fired, LCP is too.

The Security 9 and CPX-2 are both hammer-fired but both have slides gully shrouding the hammer save for a viewing slot. Thumbing the rear will hold the slide in battery while holstering but will not stop any hammer travel.

That said, the CPX-3 (10+1 capacity 380 ACP little brother to the CPX-2) I'm playing with hasn't given me the heebie-jeebies in an AIWB I pressed for it.

[Sal Picante]

If you want to borrow my LCR, just to try out, by all means, let's meet up.

I've seen a few of the Mod 36's and Bodyguards, used, at decent prices around Sarasota...

[JimCunn]

"What is involved with that process exactly ?"

Get TKM or Pinnacle to ream the cylinder for 9mm, cut it for moonclips, and thin the extractor star to match the moonclips. When you get the cylinder back, time the chambers to match the gun. On average, it takes me about 5 minutes per chamber to do that. I do it while watching TV :-)

"Where did you source the cylinders?"

Titanium .38Sp/.357Mag cylinders from Midway. I got six. I think they are out of stock at the moment.

"I'm know the bore diameter is close enough for a 9mm conversion - but what sort of accuracy have you noticed ?"

No change in accuracy.

"I thought there could potentially be down sort of "tolerance stacking" effect".

Doesn't seem to be.

" I think a light 9mm jframe would be slick !"

12.5 oz with the titanium cylinders and Altamont combat grips.
A little heavier with Hogue laser grip.
I use 9mm 147 gr JHP
Recoil is more brisk than .38Sp, but not bad.
I don't plan to try .357 Mag in them.

[JimCunn]

That was supposed to be TKC, not TKM.

Midway has 4 of the cylinders in Stock at the moment.

[jetfire]

I completely agree, but not sure why you quoted me? Not trying to pick a fight, but I directly mentioned S&W and indirectly referenced Ruger. If I somehow gave the impression I was promoting or recommending Taurus, my apologies.

It was like three am local and I hit the wrong button.

[Drifting Fate]

It was like three am local and I hit the wrong button.

Makes sense and thank you for the response. I was perplexed as I didn't notice the prior post; didn't want to continue an error if I was making a mistake.

[Cory]

If you want to borrow my LCR, just to try out, by all means, let's meet up.

I've seen a few of the Mod 36's and Bodyguards, used, at decent prices around Sarasota...

Wow, I appreciate the offer! I won't be buying any time soon, just trying to think things out, so I think I'm okay for now.

-Cory

[JPedersen]

That was supposed to be TKC, not TKM.

Midway has 4 of the cylinders in Stock at the moment.Thank you for taking the time to lay that all out. I hope it hasn't detracted from the OP. Hopping on Midway tonight. Thanks again.

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[badge851]

I use this...
https://charterfirearms.com/collections/undercover/products/13811-undercover-blue-dao (https://charterfirearms.com/collections/undercover/products/13811-undercover-blue-dao)

[JPedersen]

I use this...
https://charterfirearms.com/collections/undercover/products/13811-undercover-blue-dao (https://charterfirearms.com/collections/undercover/products/13811-undercover-blue-dao)?

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[badge851]

?

Sent from my SM-G973U using TapatalkWhat is your question?

[JPedersen]

What is your question?I didn't know what "I use this" was referring to. I thought maybe there was a pic or more info coming. Sorry for any confusion - just disregard. Thanks.

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