Which DA .22

[KenpoTex]

I'm wanting to get a DA small-frame .22 in the near future.

The ones I'm looking at are:

S&W 43C (if I'm lucky enough to notice for the 5 minutes they seem to be available at any given time)
S&W 317
Ruger LCR 22

I'm also considering

S&W 317 kit gun
Ruger SP101 .22

I'm leaning toward one of the first 3 as a low-cost training version of my .38's, since .38 ammo is stupid expensive anymore. I'm considering the other two, however, because the longer barrels and better sights will make them easier to shoot. This is a consideration since the revolver will do double-duty as a "loaner" for students in CCW classes.

From what I've seen thus far, the Rugers are a little cheaper than their S&W equivalents. That said, I don't want to end up with something that's gonna be a PITA just to save a few bucks if there are bugs that need to be worked out with these newer models.

So, for those that have experience with one or more of the models I've mentioned, what are your thoughts?

Thanks.

[Joe in PNG]

I love a good K framed .22, but man... they are kind of hard to shoot when one is missing an arm and a leg.

[Al T.]

Kenpo, not on your list, but I continue to be impressed with my J frame, stainless steel S&W M63 w/3 inch barrel. Great trigger, good accuracy and I strongly suspect my grandkids will be shooting it along with my M617.

The SP101 I had was heavy for the capacity (6 rounds). Not sure about the LCR, but suspect that's a decent revolver.

[Chuck Haggard]

My 317 is a great adjunct to my 642s, I like it a lot.

If Tam reads this; I like my 317 alot.

[TCinVA]

As the owner of a 317 in the snobby configuration, my advice would be to buy the longer barrel revolver at a bare minimum.

I'm a huge fan of DA .22 revolvers. I bought the 317 after having become impatient in the search for a good one. I had a beautiful model 18 I rescued from an auction, but that revolver turned out to shoot way off of point of aim so it wasn't useful for anything other than looking pretty. After scouring gunbroker for months trying to get another model 18 or a kit gun or something in that range for a decent price with no result, I snapped when I saw the 317 at a gun show and paid probably more than I should have.

They are pretty expensive handguns, I assume because they are more involved to make. At the prices I see asked for them on gun store shelves it would be worth it to me to spend a little bit more for the revolver that makes me happy. I like the revolver well enough, but when I'm using the thing for fun rather than as a serious training tool I often find myself wishing it was a blued steel revolver with a longer barrel.

[KenpoTex]

Thanks for the feedback so far folks.
After more looking, the LCR 22 interests me. There are aftermarket front sights available, and the trigger is advertised as being about 8 lbs. or less...not bad if it's as smooth as the .38 version.

Al T., I have considered the 63, just forgot to list it with the other two longer-barrel models. I may look for a used one if I go with the larger size.


As the owner of a 317 in the snobby configuration, my advice would be to buy the longer barrel revolver at a bare minimum.



Is there something you don't like about the snubby 317's performance, or is it just that the "fun factor" isn't as strong as it would be with a longer barrel/better sights, etc.?

[YVK]

I've been looking at those too, after GJM had suggested. It does seem like a great options for a high-rounds practice of managing a DA pull, plus an option for a small backup revolver.

[TCinVA]

Is there something you don't like about the snubby 317's performance, or is it just that the "fun factor" isn't as strong as it would be with a longer barrel/better sights, etc.?

The snub configuration is much harder to shoot well than a configuration with better sights and better sight radius would be. When everything is just right I can be pretty accurate with the little revolver. When my eyes are fatigued or the lighting isn't just right I struggle to shoot it well.

[KenpoTex]

Roger that. I know there's a trade-off with these but a big part of my interest is having something that replicates my .38's as closely as possible. The longer barrel and better sights of the kit-gun or SP101 would make it easier to shoot, but my .38's have the standard (crappy) sights.

On the other hand...it's kind of expensive for something that is basically just going to be a step up from dryfire for me, so I'm thinking hard about a more shootable model...choices, choices :confused:

[HeadHunter]

I really like my 317. One of the best purchases I have ever made.

[TNWNGR]

The LCR 22 isn't bad at all, good action, visable sights and feel's good while it's being shot. If I still carried a J Frame or were carrying an LCR I'd go this route. That said though the longer barreled SP-101 would be the more versitle of the two for mixed training and field use. I'm waiting to see if Ruger decides to go the "kit gun' route with the 22 LR LCR before I purchase one, it'd make a nice 2 3/4"-4" field gun.

[GJM]

My choice is the S&W 317 kit gun, with adjustable sights and the 3 point something inch barrel. I define my mission as having a DA .22 revolver, that I can use for trigger control while steering the sights, especially one hand shooting, to augment my center fire semi-auto shooting. I want a revolver that allows me to adjust the sights so I am POA/POI, so that when I miss steel, I know it is my trigger control or sight alignment, and not the fault of the fixed sights, for example, on my model 43. I also want the revolver to be light weight, as the 317 is, to avoid stress on my elbows, and for this reason don't use my 617.

For the last 3 or 4 weeks, I have started each center fire pistol session with 100 rounds of rimfire thru the 317, and sometimes only shot sessions with the 317, and it has made an enormous difference in my support hand only shooting. I couldn't imagine shooting a LEM without regularly training with a DA .22 revolver, although I need to make a mental transition back to the Glock, so I am not surprised on the first shot with the Glock after a bunch of DA .22 revolver shooting.

[KenpoTex]

Sounds like the 317 is the favorite so far.

For those of you who have one, how have they held up under extended use? (I'm sure HH's has at least a couple of rounds through it ;))
How do the triggers compare to those on a .38 version?

[HeadHunter]

For those of you who have one, how have they held up under extended use? (I'm sure HH's has at least a couple of rounds through it ;))
How do the triggers compare to those on a .38 version?

More rounds than I have counted. Mine has a trigger that is comparable to a .38. But I put in a Wilson Spring Kit and bobbed the hammer. Funny that it still goes off with astonishing regularity, even though I'm told it's not supposed to.

[KenpoTex]

More rounds than I have counted. Mine has a trigger that is comparable to a .38. But I put in a Wilson Spring Kit and bobbed the hammer. Funny that it still goes off with astonishing regularity, even though I'm told it's not supposed to.

Thanks, glad to know it's similar. I changed out the return-spring on my 442 which made an appreciable difference. That would definitely be on the to-do list with the 317.

[ACP230]

I have a stainless steel, three inch, Charter Arms Pathfinder .22. It's an older one that was refurbished at the current factory.
Works well, shoots accurately, and is a good understudy gun for my .38s snubs in J and K frame. It has adjustable sights and the snubs do not, but otherwise they are real close in feel.

Might be an option.

[TCinVA]

For those of you who have one, how have they held up under extended use? (I'm sure HH's has at least a couple of rounds through it ;))
How do the triggers compare to those on a .38 version?

Mine has gone through several 550 round boxes of ammo. It still functions about as well as you can expect such a device to function in the first place.

Rimfire ammo is notoriously unreliable in terms of ignition and consistency, so you can expect to experience quite a few dud rounds or rounds that need a second strike to fire if you shoot the bulk stuff. Also expect malformed rounds.

My 317 needs to be cleaned at least every couple of boxes of ammo as the crud builds up on the gun to the point where it begins to impact the ability to fully seat the rounds in the chambers, which causes them to stick up from the recesses in the chambers just a bit, which causes the cylinder to bind. The gap between the frame and the cylinder is very tiny so you don't have a lot of room to play with there. My 317 got grody enough after several boxes of ammo with no PM that the cylinder locked up tight and I needed a rubber mallet to get the thing open again.

As for the trigger, the trigger on my 442 is actually smoother than the trigger on my 317. As the gun gets dirtier the quality of the trigger pull degrades because the cylinder gets that much harder to turn.

[GJM]

Mine has gone through several 550 round boxes of ammo. It still functions about as well as you can expect such a device to function in the first place.

Rimfire ammo is notoriously unreliable in terms of ignition and consistency, so you can expect to experience quite a few dud rounds or rounds that need a second strike to fire if you shoot the bulk stuff. Also expect malformed rounds.

My 317 needs to be cleaned at least every couple of boxes of ammo as the crud builds up on the gun to the point where it begins to impact the ability to fully seat the rounds in the chambers, which causes them to stick up from the recesses in the chambers just a bit, which causes the cylinder to bind. The gap between the frame and the cylinder is very tiny so you don't have a lot of room to play with there. My 317 got grody enough after several boxes of ammo with no PM that the cylinder locked up tight and I needed a rubber mallet to get the thing open again.

As for the trigger, the trigger on my 442 is actually smoother than the trigger on my 317. As the gun gets dirtier the quality of the trigger pull degrades because the cylinder gets that much harder to turn.

Interesting, I wonder if it is ammo related, or something about your 317. In the month I have been shooting my 317, I am between 4,000 and 5,000 rounds of Federal and CCI JHP's, have yet to clean it, and it is functioning fine?

[Al T.]

TC, when did you get your 317? I went through several of the older S&Ws looking for one that would go for a couple of hundred rounds. I finally got my 617 and 63, both of which run fine.

[TCinVA]

I bought it a couple of years ago.

[Al T.]

Honestly, I'd send it back for fixing.

[Spr1]

Interesting, I wonder if it is ammo related, or something about your 317. In the month I have been shooting my 317, I am between 4,000 and 5,000 rounds of Federal and CCI JHP's, have yet to clean it, and it is functioning fine?

My understanding is that there is a range in the function based on chamber size, i.e. how worn the chamber reamer was when that cylinder was produced. It sounds like a common improvement is to send one to a gunsmith to have the chambers reamed.

Ps. I have been kicking myself for a while now for selling a beautiful 4" 617 a few years ago.... What was I thinking??

[HeadHunter]

I have a stainless steel, three inch, Charter Arms Pathfinder .22.

There are several of those in my family in blue. They work quite well, although the trigger is heavy.

[FotoTomas]

I had a 317 a long time ago and wish I still did. If funds allow I will get another. At present my .22 battery of revolvers consists of Ruger Super Single Six. Not that good of an option for DA training with a small revolver! :)

[1986s4]

An S&W M18 4" .22 was my first pistol. A six shot K frame. Not sure how many cans I've perforated with it, now use it for a challenging steel challenge gun. I've owned it for 32 years.

[Carraway]

Just to throw out an option from someone with limited experience, have you considered an old High Standard Sentinel? I've shot a great deal with a longer-barreled version, but I find the overall feel is akin to the S&W Model 10 I also shoot quite a bit. The trigger feel in double action is far stiffer with the .22, however, but I find if I can keep it steady, doing so on the .38 is a snap. The single action break is pretty close, however. I'm thinking that a snub-nosed version might also be similar enough for your needs. Well, as long as you find a good one that's priced to be used rather than collected.

[KenpoTex]

have you considered an old High Standard Sentinel?

I actually hadn't even heard of those before... :)

I think at this point I've pretty much decided on the 317, if I can find one for a decent price. Bud's Police Supply is the best I've found, by a significant margin. Unfortunately, they're out of stock.

[Carraway]

Here's some information on the High Standard Sentinel, if interested: http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Sentinel/sentinel.html . I believe that in the 50s and 60s High Standard .22s were highly regarded, particularly the competition pistols. If you happen to come across a good one, I think they're worth consideration. I believe they sell in the $200-$275 range.

There's currently a company that owns the brand and is either manufacturing or importing firearms, but I don't know much about them.

For the 317, do you know of small shops that focus on police supply or even officers with a small business selling firearms? I just know of a couple of places/people in my area like that who can typically get S&Ws at good prices.

[KenpoTex]

Thanks for the info, and the suggestion. It had slipped my mind until you mentioned it, but there is a Lt. at one of the local departments that has a gun business on the side, I'll have to holler at him.

[warnerj2118]

I recently purchased a ruger sr22. I love it so far. I was debating between that and a sig sauer mosqito which is also a .22. Both of them were around the same price. The sig is a a little bit bigger than the ruger is but thats okay. Very light and versatile. The ruger is very well built also. One of the better things about the ruger is that with a flick of on button you can break the gun down to clean it. I have out about 200 rounds through it today of the winchester white box and havent had any problems at all. I paid 351 after tax for the sr22. Good luck

[skoro]

If you're not opposed to buying used, the S&W Model 17 or M18 is a real fine DA revolver. I have one of each and really like both of them. Even used, they tend to be expensive. But if you take your time and keep an eye open, you'll eventually find one that isn't too pricey.

[jsiberians]

We bought the LCR 22 last week because the LC9 has been a great ccw. Yesterday my wife and I ran about 300 rounds through it using four differant 22lr ammos and it was acurrate with all.
The sights were dead on and the feel of the LCR was really comfortable.
The trigger was smooth but a little heavy so when I cleaned it I removed the grip and cleaned the works good and oiled it lightly. What a big differance that made. Smoother and lighter. I sugest that if you buy one new not only clean the barrel and cylender also remove the grip (One screw) and clean and oil (lightly) the works.
It only takes a couple minutes but makes a big differance.

[KenpoTex]

Sorry for not revisiting this thread sooner, thanks to everyone for their responses.

After taking another look at the LCR22's, I just decided to try one. I picked one up a couple of weeks ago but have only had time to hit the range once since I got it. I didn't have much time to shoot, maybe 30 minutes, but initial impressions are good. The trigger is decent and I was having no trouble hitting 3x5 cards at 7 yards from low-ready. Next time I go, I'll try to remember to take a dot-torture target and see how I fare with something like that.

Aside from the training value, the thing is just fun to shoot. I did about 100 rounds just blazing away at an 8" plate :D...neat little gun

[Twobuh]

I'm looking to purchase a 317 or 617, strictly for DA/LEM trigger training. It seems like the lighter 317 would be a better choice because the reduced weight would amplify any trigger and/or grip issues.

Normally I would purchase the 317 and not sweat it, but the LGS has two new 617's and zero 317's. The larger K frame feels great in the hand, but I'm concerned the extra mass will defeat the purpose.

So... 317 or 617 for DA training?

[taadski]

I purchased a used model 63 for my father a number of years ago and have put multiple thousands of rounds down range with it. It's a great little shooter. I also own a 4" 617 I bought new that's pushing 20,000 rounds through it. I bought the latter for the express purpose of being a double-action training gun (and of course a plinker, etc... too). My take is that for shooting a full-sized DA or DA/SA pistol, (I carry Sigs at work) the larger frame revolver does a better job for me. I find the weight, the longer sight radius and more importantly, the reach from backstrap to trigger and the length of trigger travel itself on the 617 more closely replicates my go-to guns than the j-frame does. Just my biased opinion, though. ;)

T

[NickA]

I had mentioned to my FFL buddy to be on the lookout for DA 22's, and wouldn't you know it he's handling an estate sale that has a few- a 3" 317 and a 4" model 34. I'm waiting for confirmation that both have adjustable sights, but just for fun:
Are there 3" 317's that only have fixed sights, or is the 3" automatically a Kit Gun, or what?
And, assuming he'll gives me a heads up and I can take my pick, would one be better than the other?
All I know about them is the 317 should be quite a bit lighter and holds 8, the 34 would be heavier and holds 6. My intended use will mostly be as a tool to work on trigger control, not too worried about collectibility but I don't mind it. Don't have pricing yet but he's saying they'll probably both be under $500.
ETA: in the time it took me to write that long post my buddy committed to buy the 317 for $400, and if I want it he'll sell it to me at that price, since he already has one. Problem solved. Looks like my 3913 will be finding a new home to cover it.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[NickA]

I took delivery of the 317 Friday (actually Mrs. A did, 'cuz my gun guy delivers). I can definitely say that I now GET IT. Took it out Saturday with SkyLine1 and I couldn't put the thing down. Probably close to 200 rounds through it, managed to go from a pattern to decent 2-3" groups at 7 yards. The need for good trigger control was immediately apparent ;).
This particular one is well used and won't win any beauty contests, but wow what a fun gun.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[1986s4]

I've had a S&W M18 .22 for 32 years. It was my first handgun. Thousands upon thousands of rounds later it is still accurate and reliable.

[okie john]

Jack O'Connor said that most shooters would be better off putting more money into a 22 than into a centerfire because we all shoot our 22s so much more than we shoot centerfire. He was talking about rifles, but this investment approach is true for handguns as well.

I'm a huge fan of steel-frame Smith & Wesson 22 DA revolvers, which are the Model 34, 35, or 63 in the J-frame, and the Model 17 and 18 in the K-frame. I prefer a J-frame .22 with a 4" barrel and a K-frame .22 with a 6" barrel. I've made some of my best bragging shots with these guns, both on game and on inanimate targets. They're expensive until you consider how long they last, at which point they suddenly become downright cheap.

The Colt Diamondback is another unsung gem, as is the Colt Officer's Model Match .22, but they're getting hard to find and getting spare parts can be difficult.

These older all-steel revolvers have to be fed the ammo that they like and you have to keep them clean, but you really can't beat them for accuracy and durability.


Okie John

[Tamara]

The Colt Diamondback is another unsung gem...

"Unsung"?

Dude, I don't know where you are, but I haven't seen a .22 Diamondback sell for less than I paid for my first car since Y2K was still a worry.

[jsiberians]

I bought the LCR22 in Spring and have 5 or 6 hundred rounds through it.
My wife loves it because it so easy to handle and is very accurate.
Great shooting handgun and carrys well too.
We keep it loaded with CCI Stingers HP and practice with anything we
happen to have on hand. Great Piece.