Federal 45 Auto HST: Standard Pressure or +P in HK USPs?

[Hunter Rose]

Looking to standardize on Federal 45 Auto 230gr HSTs for my HK USPs. This would be for carry in a USP 45 Tactical and USP 45 Compact with extended threaded barrel.

I remember seeing DocGKR mention that bad things happen when 230gr HST gets too fast. So my question is, with barrel lengths ranging from 4.4" - 5", is there any reason to use the +P load over the standard pressure HST? Would the 5" barrel get the +P load moving too fast?

[JAH 3rd]

Here is a link to the above website. They tested multiple pistol calibers and bullet weights. Photos and stats galore in this article.

There is a comparison a of HST 230gr 45acp in standard and +P velocity. The difference isn't much at all with penetration and expansion. At the beginning of the article it states that a Kahr was used for 45 testing. It is an interesting read.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#45ACP

[revchuck38]

I don't have any experience with HKs, but I've shot both versions through my .45s - an M&P45 FS 1.0, a Colt Combat Commander and an S&W M22-4 4" revolver. The M&P didn't care which one I used, but both the Colt and the revolver were noticeably more controllable with the standard velocity load. There doesn't seem to be much difference in performance between the two loads, and both are on Doc's list. I've chosen to standardize on the standard velocity load. It's also easier to work up practice handloads for standard velocity .45 ACP.

[DocGKR]

JAH 3rd: Really? Most "tests" I pay attention to use validated simulant material proven to have a correlation with actual shooting incidents...

Both versions work adequately. The standard pressure is more forgiving in a wider range of handguns. In a USP, both work well and there is a slight, but measurable increase in terminal performance with the +P.

[L-2]

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Hornady Critical Duty 220 gr +P JHP
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)
ref. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4337-Service-Caliber-Handgun-Duty-and-Self-Defense-Ammo

Both standard and +P make the 2016 recommended .45ACP list for duty ammo.
-if you can find both, get both and try them in your practice shooting. You might test for accuracy; time to follow-up shot (split times); and general feel in both of the subject HK guns.

-both on are on the recommended list; I don't know what it means to say "bad things happen" regarding bullet velocity. Do more research to determine what velocity is being referred to and determine what velocity a 5" barrel provides. If the +P is on the OK list, I suspect 5" will be fine.

-try not to overthink carry ammo. If it's on the list, then carry it as long as you've got some confidence you'll be hitting where you aim. For some of us, we're used to being told what caliber to carry; which gun to carry; and what ammo to carry. If the ammo is on the P-F list from DocGKR, we can feel a bit better about what we've got loaded in our guns, but we're not going to worry about it when we go to work if it's not on that list. For me, I was able to carry anything I wanted off-duty and I'd just choose whatever carry ammo I could find to buy if it was on DocGKR's list.

[Hunter Rose]

Both versions work adequately. The standard pressure is more forgiving in a wider range of handguns. In a USP, both work well and there is a slight, but measurable increase in terminal performance with the +P.

Thanks Doc. So there's no worries of the +P version getting too fast out of the 5.09" USP Tactical barrel?

Looks like I'll get a box of each to test, and if I can tell a significant recoil difference then I'll likely go with the standard pressure round.

[Galbraith]

I've shot both out of a P320 full sized. I find the standard pressure version to be slightly more accurate, has less muzzle blast, less muzzle flash, and softer recoil. I also find the Speer GD and Winchester RB to have less flash than the HST. I'm fine with carrying any of these 3 standard pressure loads in my duty P320.

[LtDave]

I'd go with the one that shoots best in my guns. In my .45's, the standard velocity load P45HST2 shoots smaller groups than the +P load pretty much across the board. The Winchester Ranger RA45T is another load that shoots extremely well across all my .45 guns. If Speer Gold Dot shot smaller groups in my carry gun I'd use that.

[JAH 3rd]

Thanks to Galbraith and LtDave for making mechanical observations about the side-effects of a particular round when fired. They bring up accuracy, muzzle flash, muzzle blast and recoil in their comments. These areas affect the shooter's ability of getting off an accurate shot.....such as flinching when anticipating the recoil. While bullet penetration and performance is essential when choosing a self-defense round, the areas they bring up are critical to putting the bullet on target to begin with. The weapon of choice and one's ability to proficiently use is it is also paramount. Thanks again guys!

[Jeep]

There are a fair number of reports that the +P load is an excellent handgun hunting round. I wonder about firing them in a 1911--some 1911's might not hold up to the abuse--but the do well in a Smith 625 (which in both the Long Colt and ACP versions is an underappreciated handgun).

[HCM]

Thanks Doc. So there's no worries of the +P version getting too fast out of the 5.09" USP Tactical barrel?

Looks like I'll get a box of each to test, and if I can tell a significant recoil difference then I'll likely go with the standard pressure round.

Not Doc but as I recall the issue with +P 45 is reliability and durability issues in platforms less robust than the USP rather than terminal ballistics.

[revchuck38]

Not Doc but as I recall the issue with +P 45 is reliability and durability issues in platforms less robust than the USP rather than terminal ballistics.

I've read about this being an issue in 1911s, but not Glocks or M&Ps. Are you perhaps thinking of .45 Super?

[Hunter Rose]

Not Doc but as I recall the issue with +P 45 is reliability and durability issues in platforms less robust than the USP rather than terminal ballistics.

I'd have to find the post in another thread about 45 HST, but Doc mentioned bad things happen when it gets above somewhere around 930 fps. I'm just curious if the 5.09" barrel of the USP Tactical would get the 230gr +P HST going too fast for optimal performance.

[Chuck Haggard]

When I had USP 45s and was smitten with velocity I tested .45Super in my guns. That was too much fun for anything but range retardery, the guns ran fine though.

If both run reliably and accurately in your guns then I'd let some sort of test make my decision, such as running Bill Drills or failure drills on a timer maybe.

[JAH 3rd]

I have read other's observations that with +P or +P+ velocities, recoil and magazine springs have to up to snuff. With increased slide velocities the magazine spring must be able to lift the next cartridge so the slide can pick it up. At least with recoil springs, one can tailor that spring to a particular round for proper function.

[HCM]

I've read about this being an issue in 1911s, but not Glocks or M&Ps. Are you perhaps thinking of .45 Super?

That’s what I said “in platforms less robust than the USP.”

[HCM]

I'd have to find the post in another thread about 45 HST, but Doc mentioned bad things happen when it gets above somewhere around 930 fps. I'm just curious if the 5.09" barrel of the USP Tactical would get the 230gr +P HST going too fast for optimal performance.

Doc answered that in post 4 of this thread.


Both versions work adequately. The standard pressure is more forgiving in a wider range of handguns. In a USP, both work well and there is a slight, but measurable increase in terminal performance with the +P.

You are confusing cycle of operation problems in 1911s etc with terminal ballistics issues (which don’t exist).

[HCM]

I have read other's observations that with +P or +P+ velocities, recoil and magazine springs have to up to snuff. With increased slide velocities the magazine spring must be able to lift the next cartridge so the slide can pick it up. At least with recoil springs, one can tailor that spring to a particular round fikor proper function.

That is true of other platforms but HKs tend to be “over engineered.”

As such, USPs work fine with 45 Super ammo and do not require spring changes for +p or super ammo.

This entire thread is much ado about nothing.

[JAH 3rd]

I've read about this being an issue in 1911s, but not Glocks or M&Ps. Are you perhaps thinking of .45 Super?

Both my full-size S&W 1.0 and 2.0 .45acp have been 100% with all ammo, both JHP and FMJ! Quite satisfied with that platform.

[revchuck38]

Both my full-size S&W 1.0 and 2.0 .45acp have been 100% with all ammo, both JHP and FMJ! Quite satisfied with that platform.

My M&P45 1.0 is part Cajun - it'll eat anything. :)