HK P30 LEM Trigger

[Speederlander]

The fact that there is a P30/P30SK thread that got pulled up today with loads of pages is a coincidence.

So, for a P30 or P30sk v1 LEM. What is the best way to get the ideal trigger? If it is a v1 LEM will it generally be out of the box excellent with respect to the trigger or does it frequently require some kind of "special attention"?

I am looking at grabbing one off gun broker, so just want to know what to expect.

Side question, is there a particular HK model other than a P30sk (glock 19 sized or smaller) that best exemplifies a DAO LEM trigger?

[GJM]

This should be interesting.

[Kirk]

The fact that there is a P30/P30SK thread that got pulled up today with loads of pages is a coincidence.

So, for a P30 or P30sk v1 LEM. What is the best way to get the ideal trigger? If it is a v1 LEM will it generally be out of the box excellent with respect to the trigger or does it frequently require some kind of "special attention"?

I am looking at grabbing one off gun broker, so just want to know what to expect.

Side question, is there a particular HK model other than a P30sk (glock 19 sized or smaller) that best exemplifies a DAO LEM trigger?

I spent a lot of time/money/ammo on the LEM trigger, trying virtually every setup. The best thing I did to fix the LEM was trade them for VP9s.

[Speederlander]

I spent a lot of time/money/ammo on the LEM trigger, trying virtually every setup. The best thing I did to fix the LEM was trade them for VP9s.

So reliability?

[Kirk]

So reliability?

They are HKs, so mine went bang every time. I liked the guns as a "street trigger," but got tired of trading in performance for that.

[Gray Ghost]

My primary carry guns are an HK45 and a P30 both with light LEM triggers. Both are excellent out of the box, and you certainly don't need to do anything to them other than shoot them in my judgment. If you really want a striker-fired gun or a single action gun, then buy one. But if the idea of a pre-cocked, light DAO trigger with a relatively short reset appeals to you, then give it a try. I think it is just about perfect for my purposes, meaning defensive carry.

I have a number of pistols, including a VP9, various Glocks, 1911's, etc. I think the H&K light LEM trigger is the bees knees.

ETA: Both run like sewing machines.

[Speederlander]

My primary carry guns are an HK45 and a P30 both with light LEM triggers. Both are excellent out of the box, and you certainly don't need to do anything to them other than shoot them in my judgment. If you really want a striker-fired gun or a single action gun, then buy one. But if the idea of a pre-cocked, light DAO trigger with a relatively short reset appeals to you, then give it a try. I think it is just about perfect for my purposes, meaning defensive carry.

I have a number of pistols, including a VP9, various Glocks, 1911's, etc. I think the H&K light LEM trigger is the bees knees.

ETA: Both run like sewing machines.

Perfect, thanks. Looking for something other than striker fired or 1911 style, more highly tuned S&W revolver action in a semi-auto. LGS doesn't have any LEMs so I have to take the plunge and just get one.

[Speederlander]

My primary carry guns are an HK45 and a P30 both with light LEM triggers. Both are excellent out of the box, and you certainly don't need to do anything to them other than shoot them in my judgment. If you really want a striker-fired gun or a single action gun, then buy one. But if the idea of a pre-cocked, light DAO trigger with a relatively short reset appeals to you, then give it a try. I think it is just about perfect for my purposes, meaning defensive carry.

I have a number of pistols, including a VP9, various Glocks, 1911's, etc. I think the H&K light LEM trigger is the bees knees.

ETA: Both run like sewing machines.

Is there only a v1 LEM or is the v2 a LEM as well?

[noguns]

V1 is light. V2 is heavy.

Not an expert but I went from g19 to others to p30/sk back to Glock.

I'm sure many here have done the same. Having the ability to safely holster a chambered Glock with a "gadget" brought me back.

In the end I shoot HKs better in slow fire /bullseye type shooting. For faster more "practical shooting I'm much better with Glock. Fwiw I haven't tried a gen 5 yet.

I don't think you'll get many responses here because discussion of the p30/LEM has already been discussed throughout the last few years here.

HKs are great. I have logged approx 12000 rounds between 3 p30s/sk and have exactly one malfunction and it was likely ammo related.

Good luck.

[Gray Ghost]

Is there only a v1 LEM or is the v2 a LEM as well?

I can never keep the "V" numbers straight because it is different on the USP's than it is on the later guns. But yes, there are two different LEM triggers, a light and a heavy. For most pistols, the only difference is the trigger return spring, which is easily changed. The HK45C has a different hammer spring, but that is also easily changed. If you find a deal on a heavy LEM don't hesitate to buy it.

[CCT125US]

This should be interesting.

Yes, yes it should.....

To the OP, do you have experience with the LEM?

Ideal is subjective, so you won't get a solid answer.

[Speederlander]

Yes, yes it should.....

To the OP, do you have experience with the LEM?

Ideal is subjective, so you won't get a solid answer.

Nope. I am very curious and falling back on the pistol-forum varied and expert opinions.

[Speederlander]

I can never keep the "V" numbers straight because it is different on the USP's than it is on the later guns. But yes, there are two different LEM triggers, a light and a heavy. For most pistols, the only difference is the trigger return spring, which is easily changed. The HK45C has a different hammer spring, but that is also easily changed. If you find a deal on a heavy LEM don't hesitate to buy it.

Is a USP LEM going to have the same feel (in a general sense) as a P30 LEM? Are there any real differences? I would assume not, but figured I would ask.

[GJM]

Is a USP LEM going to have the same feel (in a general sense) as a P30 LEM? Are there any real differences? I would assume not, but figured I would ask.

The P30 is a modernized USP, although some prefer the USP straight grip to the rounded P30 grip. The USP, in the form of the hybrid match LEM, has the best trigger of any hammer HK pistol. The dual recoil system of the USP is an advantage with heavy loads like .45 Super, but tends to pogo in 9mm compared to a P30. USP pistols have shorter reset than a P30.

[Grey]

Had HK, loved HK, holstering a striker with no control gave me enough of the willies to move to Glock and a SCD. Staying with Glock because of the SCD.

The P30 LEM always intrigued me but I really like my striker triggers...

[CCT125US]

Nope. I am very curious and falling back on the pistol-forum varied and expert opinions.

In my limited experience, folks who come from a double action revolver or traditional da/sa tend to take to the LEM better. Those with only a striker fired background, not so much. I have seen very accomplished shooters give up on the LEM after many thousands of rounds. However, some have no issue after just a brief time. Just tonight, a shooter who is used to Wilson combat 1911s and tuned CZ / Shadow / Czechmates had no trouble after 1 mag. At 7 yards his first 3 rounds went about 4 inches low, and then was stacking rounds with my v1. His observation was that the gun just went off a bit later than expected, and he had driven the gun down expecting recoil. Not a flinch, just bad timing.

The LEM has been described as a 2 stage trigger, but it needs to be rowed through the break, not an start, stop, go motion.

What part of the country are you in? Perhaps a local forum member has one you could try.

[Doc_Glock]

I spent a lot of time/money/ammo on the LEM trigger, trying virtually every setup. The best thing I did to fix the LEM was trade them for VP9s.

I laughed and I pretty much agree.

I didn't know you left the LEM, but you are the second experienced shooter I have heard say something to the effect of: "The best P30 HK trigger is a VP9."

[Doc_Glock]

Perfect, thanks. Looking for something other than striker fired or 1911 style,

The LEM is definitely different from those.


more highly tuned S&W revolver action in a semi-auto.

The LEM is not like that for sure.


LGS doesn't have any LEMs so I have to take the plunge and just get one.

That is the only way to find out. It's unique.

[LOKNLOD]

In my limited experience, folks who come from a double action revolver or traditional da/sa tend to take to the LEM better. Those with only a striker fired background, not so much. I have seen very accomplished shooters give up on the LEM after many thousands of rounds. However, some have no issue after just a brief time. Just tonight, a shooter who is used to Wilson combat 1911s and tuned CZ / Shadow / Czechmates had no trouble after 1 mag. At 7 yards his first 3 rounds went about 4 inches low, and then was stacking rounds with my v1. His observation was that the gun just went off a bit later than expected, and he had driven the gun down expecting recoil. Not a flinch, just bad timing.

The LEM has been described as a 2 stage trigger, but it needs to be rowed through the break, not an start, stop, go motion.

What part of the country are you in? Perhaps a local forum member has one you could try.

This is good advice in bold. Don't let the stagey-ness trip you up. If you can ignore that, it's really not that weird. You've just got to row through without inducing any yoink of the sights.

I did some of my best shooting a few years back with an LEM P30. I hit a point where it made shooting a Glock seem so easy (which, it is by comparison) that I thought I was really getting something by going back to Glock... this was long before the VP9.

Lately I've been shooting a DA/SA P30L and SK a bit. I've actually come to like the much-maligned DA HK quite a bit.

[javemtr]

There are in fact three different versions of the LEM (at least for the P30). Numbers below copied from the P30 page on H-K's German website:

v1: the lightest version, 24 N trigger pull weight
v2: the heavy version, 32.5 N trigger pull weight
v4: the medium version, 27.5 N trigger pull weight

I think the v4 is rare or even nonexistent in the US market.

[LOKNLOD]

Too late to edit, but I forgot to mention my LEM was a V2 converted to the "TLG" config. Here was another thread about P30 trigger weights: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?727-P30-Question

[Gray Ghost]

Is a USP LEM going to have the same feel (in a general sense) as a P30 LEM? Are there any real differences? I would assume not, but figured I would ask.

I may not be as sensitive to minor trigger variations as some. I have the following pistols in light LEM configuration: USP 45, USP 45 Compact, P30, HK45, HK45 Tactical, HK45 Compact. For my purposes they are basically the same. The trigger does smooth out the more you shoot it, but it is fine out of the box.

Someone else posted that the USP has a shorter reset in LEM. I'll do a side by side comparison this weekend and report back if I can detect such.

[einherjarvalk]

My experience with the USP has been that the USP has a shorter reset than the P30 regardless of the trigger model. However, GrayGuns recently released a drop-in part that advertises a reduced reset on the P30 series without the need to send it to him for a full trigger job. I *think* default.mp3 has one in his P30Ls, but I could be mistaken.

[SecondsCount]

I've been running a P30 V2 LEM since 2010. While I'm not a pro level shooter, I do pretty well, and the trigger is not what is keeping me from the top. Great guns that are now at a reasonable price point.

[Coyote41]

My experience with the USP has been that the USP has a shorter reset than the P30 regardless of the trigger model. However, GrayGuns recently released a drop-in part that advertises a reduced reset on the P30 series without the need to send it to him for a full trigger job. I *think* default.mp3 has one in his P30Ls, but I could be mistaken.

The USP/HK45 series does have a shorter reset, the Grayguns kit makes the P series slightly shorter than the USP/HK45 series
I have 3 of them. One didn’t fit (the 4.1 CDA version). Grayguns replaced it and the replacement works fine. I’ve been using them with zero issues (once installed) since they came out.

[Pacioli]

His observation was that the gun just went off a bit later than expected, and he had driven the gun down expecting recoil. Not a flinch, just bad timing.

This was my experience with the LEM in both the P30 and the 45C. it seems the break point is so far back in the trigger guard that the mechanics of my trigger finger were past the "straight pull back" point and i would put rounds low. Having said that, lots of dry fire cured the issue. But I had to dry fire consistently (daily) or my mechanics would be unlearned. i loved the guns, even ran the 45C in a Givens defensive pistol class. Maybe the way to think of it is the LEM is a high maintenance spouse. Pay attention to them every day and they'll make you happy.

[Speederlander]

So, a local GS has a used P30 LEM v1 for $599. Full kit, good condition. Is that a decent price? I will drive over to look at it tomorrow.

[Gray Ghost]

So, a local GS has a used P30 LEM v1 for $599. Full kit, good condition. Is that a decent price? I will drive over to look at it tomorrow.

Yes. That is a good price. That is what Eurooptic sells them for, and you would have to pay transfer fees on top of that. They use to by a lot more before H&K dropped the price. I think I paid $995 for mine back in 2013.

[M2CattleCo]

LEM has nothing in common with a double action.

I always thought of it as a long travel Glock trigger.

People try to make them better, but that's the opposite of what it was designed to be...

[LOKNLOD]

Yes. That is a good price. That is what Eurooptic sells them for, and you would have to pay transfer fees on top of that. They use to by a lot more before H&K dropped the price. I think I paid $995 for mine back in 2013.

Here’s a V2 for $499 on gunbroker... no affiliation or endorsement of this vendor intended.

41624

Any non-safety P30 you get under 600 is a solid deal. P30L’s are hard to snag a deal on right now - or even find consistently. SK’s can be grabbed sub-500 if you shop and have some patience.

[JonInWA]

LEM has nothing in common with a double action.

I always thought of it as a long travel Glock trigger.

People try to make them better, but that's the opposite of what it was designed to be...

I understand what you're saying, and I agree to an extent, particularly regarding V1 LEM, which has characteristics of both a SA and a striker-fired action. However, in my opinion, V2, V4, V4.1 and V1.5 I argue ARE more like a DAO than a striker-fired action.

After some intensive discussion here, on HK Pro with TooSixy, and with HK CS and HK Armorers, the substitution of the medium-weight Trigger Rebound/Return Spring significantly transformed the pull resistance (particularly up to and including the break point) so that it is more akin to DAO (and what I've termed "V1.5"); trust me, I'm pretty familiar with DAO on a semi-auto....

I don't personally agree with the 4.1, which is LEM with a shorter take-up, which, while it may improve "shootability," I feel is counter to the intent and purpose of LEM. So you and I are probably on the same sheet of music there.

Best, Jon

[Coyote41]

I don't personally agree with the 4.1, which is LEM with a shorter take-up, which, while it may improve "shootability," I feel is counter to the intent and purpose of LEM. So you and I are probably on the same sheet of music there.

Best, Jon

4.1 is less an enhancement to the trigger and more of “I have stubby fingers and need a shorter reach trigger for proper finger placement”. The amount of difference in 4.1 is so small that it really doesn’t change anything except allowing a shooter with smaller hands get acceptable finger position.

[Kirk]

4.1 is less an enhancement to the trigger and more of “I have stubby fingers and need a shorter reach trigger for proper finger placement”. The amount of difference in 4.1 is so small that it really doesn’t change anything except allowing a shooter with smaller hands get acceptable finger position.

Tend to agree with this. Had 3 V4.1 and a couple of V1s and V2s. My favorite setup by far was the TLG version.

[JonInWA]

4.1 is less an enhancement to the trigger and more of “I have stubby fingers and need a shorter reach trigger for proper finger placement”. The amount of difference in 4.1 is so small that it really doesn’t change anything except allowing a shooter with smaller hands get acceptable finger position.. I can buy into that. Thanks for opening my eyes to that application. Best, Jon

[gunrascal]

I changed my P2000 V2 to a Todd Green type trigger; really like it for carry; priorities are safety, reliability, accuracy; this HK gives nothing up to my P229, P99 or 1911.

[GJM]

I was organizing some stuff, and stumbled on a P30 LEM, that I forgot I still had. Dry fired it some, and thought what a nice pistol. Have shot it three times in the last week, and while I wouldn’t take it to a competition, it sure seems like a nice carry pistol, especially appendix. I really can’t split it faster than .21, although that is not much of a consideration for EDC use. What it shines at is on the accuracy end of the speed/accuracy continuum. It just stacks shots into the A zone. Next up, to shoot it one hand only, where I have felt the LEM trigger was previously a hardship.

[JonInWA]

George, it's a positive piece of cake compared to single-handed shooting my Beretta 93D-after all it's optimizations.... Best, Jon

[HCountyGuy]

Next up, to shoot it one hand only, where I have felt the LEM trigger was previously a hardship.

Curious as to your experiences to have formed that opinion.

[GJM]

Curious as to your experiences to have formed that opinion.

Rogers School, numerous shooters.

[Tom Duffy]

I really like the LEM P30 trigger, but I don't shoot fast enough that the trigger holds me back. I suggest you take a look at P.E. Kelley's youtube video shooting the P30 LEM.

[CCT125US]

Next up, to shoot it one hand only, where I have felt the LEM trigger was previously a hardship.

I have found the USP9C to be much more LHO / RHO friendly. The profile of the front and back strap, is just working better for me. It seems to resist negative input better and is more forgiving in my hands. As much as I love the P30, multiple metrics tell me I don't shoot it as well as the P30. The performance gains, trump the positive attributes of the P30.

[GJM]

I have found the USP9C to be much more LHO / RHO friendly. The profile of the front and back strap, is just working better for me. It seems to resist negative input better and is more forgiving in my hands. As much as I love the P30, multiple metrics tell me I don't shoot it as well as the P30. The performance gains, trump the positive attributes of the P30.

I am genuinely curious as to how it shakes out. On some other stuff, I feel like I am shooting the P30 better than I remembered it from years past, so I am optimistic.

[breakingtime91]

I recently moved back to hk lem after a divorce. Carry a 30sk and have had no regrets. After one magazine I was doing fine in standards, even compared to the Wilson combat 1911 I was carrying

[vsdtrek]

I was organizing some stuff, and stumbled on a P30 LEM, that I forgot I still had. Dry fired it some, and thought what a nice pistol. Have shot it three times in the last week, and while I wouldn’t take it to a competition, it sure seems like a nice carry pistol, especially appendix. I really can’t split it faster than .21, although that is not much of a consideration for EDC use. What it shines at is on the accuracy end of the speed/accuracy continuum. It just stacks shots into the A zone. Next up, to shoot it one hand only, where I have felt the LEM trigger was previously a hardship.

You know life is good when you happen to find an HK P30 LEM laying around!

I have one, and am interested in trying the V1.5 Jon mentions. Think that would be closer to the trigger on my USP, which is probably the smoother of the two.

[David S.]

You know life is good when you happen to find an HK P30 LEM laying around!

First time reading a GJM post? ;) ;)

[JonInWA]

LEM has nothing in common with a double action.

I always thought of it as a long travel Glock trigger.

People try to make them better, but that's the opposite of what it was designed to be...

Ummm, where do you get the idea that LEM has nothing in common with a double action? I guess from a strictly mechanical analysis you might be somewhat correct, but from an operational aspect I find it most similar to DAO-especially if you use any trigger return spring that's heavier than the V1 Light LEM.

I've heard several analogies offered regarding LEM-ranging the gamut from a longer-triggerpull SA, light DAO, and your long-travel Glock suggestion.

In my personal experience, LEM is highly characterized by the weight of the trigger return spring utilized. And also by putting in some dedicated use and experience with it. My suggestion is that you approach it as Dagga Boy addressed it in his excellent discussion, and then modify it to meet the characteristics you desire; I personally use only HK CS and HK OEM parts, but there are aftermarket alternatives out there, with varying recommendations, prices, estimated work times and reputations.

Best, Jon

[Sauer Koch]

People try to make them better, but that's the opposite of what it was designed to be...

Find one, and shoot it, and TRY not to compare it to ____. It's a VERY unique system, and the quote below touches on this.



In my limited experience, folks who come from a double action revolver or traditional da/sa tend to take to the LEM better. Those with only a striker fired background, not so much.

I completely agree! The part in bold, above, is maybe the most valuable bit of info in this thread, but there obviously are exceptions. My wife and I shot nothing but Sig's (226 & 229) before my wife migrated over to an HK P30SK V1, due to trigger reach issues on her 229, and she loves the V1 LEM, as did I, and ended up getting a V1 P30 for myself.
As far as the quality of the trigger itself, all three of ours felt absolutely identical out of the box (excellent). No grittiness, to odd characteristics of any kind, just a wall, and a clean break. No need for any trigger work, IMO. If you buy one and don't like it, no worries, it'll be easy to sell.

[Doc_Glock]

I have thought about trying the reset reducing linkage from Gray Guns, but worry it may affect the incredible reliability of the LEM system.

[GJM]

I shot the LEM at the range today. Right and left hand only, everything into a two inch dot at 7. Eight inch steel at 15 yards was fine at speed. I did notice I needed to prep beyond the initial wall. Worked well enough, I am satisfied for EDC. My impression today, as previously, as for whatever your skill level, your performance is a tad less with the LEM. Administratively, it is a great pistol for less experienced shooters, but for higher performance you need well developed fundamentals of grip and trigger.

I think I have light LEM, but that is a guess. The trigger has a wall, a bit more travel, then it breaks.

[spj]

Im a bit of a broken record but had a decade on duty with a USP 45 which was converted to LEM when they first came out around 01 or 02, and a decade with an HK45 light LEM. I like them both and find the reset pretty similar. I have trained up many officers on the LEM system and don't have any issues getting folks qualified. (won't pretend this is any feat) I can rip .17 splits with the HK45 at hosing distances. I bought a P2000 9mm LEM several years ago to carry off duty. We have a contentious relationship. It might as well be a completely different trigger. The reset is frustrating and vague and causes me to short stroke it after shooting the USP and HK45 for so long.

[GJM]

Im a bit of a broken record but had a decade on duty with a USP 45 which was converted to LEM when they first came out around 01 or 02, and a decade with an HK45 light LEM. I like them both and find the reset pretty similar. I have trained up many officers on the LEM system and don't have any issues getting folks qualified. (won't pretend this is any feat) I can rip .17 splits with the HK45 at hosing distances. I bought a P2000 9mm LEM several years ago to carry off duty. We have a contentious relationship. It might as well be a completely different trigger. The reset is frustrating and vague and causes me to short stroke it after shooting the USP and HK45 for so long.

Yep, the P30 and P2000, unlike the USP (and somewhat the HK45) have very long reset. With the P30, I flip off the trigger hard enough, I sometimes touch the inside front of the trigger guard. That doesn’t contribute to fast splits.

[breakingtime91]

grey guns drop in kit (80 dollars) makes the p30 trigger better then the usp lem triggers.. like its nice lol

[EVP]

We’re there reports that some people were having issues with the short reset part?

[GJM]

grey guns drop in kit (80 dollars) makes the p30 trigger better then the usp lem triggers.. like its nice lol

Do you mean better than the hybrid match LEM in the USP full size, because that is a most awesome HK hammer trigger.

[breakingtime91]

Do you mean better than the hybrid match LEM in the USP full size, because that is a most awesome HK hammer trigger.

not that good but good enough to matter

[2xAGM114]

grey guns drop in kit (80 dollars) makes the p30 trigger better then the usp lem triggers.. like its nice lol

Interrogative: Can you say how "drop in" it is? Could a guy who isn't a gunsmith accomplish it without adult supervision or breaking something?

...asking for a friend

[javemtr]

Interrogative: Can you say how "drop in" it is? Could a guy who isn't a gunsmith accomplish it without adult supervision or breaking something?
...asking for a friend
I recall multiple reports of people on the HKPro forum that installed it by themselves without issue. Not sure of their individual skill levels, but I doubt each one of them was a gunsmith.
Relevant posts here (with input from Gray Guns themselves): https://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/482392-gray-guns-drop-hk-usp-short-reset-kit.html

[thward89]

Interrogative: Can you say how "drop in" it is? Could a guy who isn't a gunsmith accomplish it without adult supervision or breaking something?

...asking for a friend

It is not an extremely difficult install. I would search HKPro and find the detailed breakdown of the P30 posted by one of their members. It includes pictures and is very helpful. I installed the kit myself right when it came out before Grayguns explained that the include pin was an extended sear pin that must be installed for the kit to work correctly. Once I figured this out, the kit dropped in and has worked flawlessly since.

[Sig_Fiend]

A few months ago I added the GGI short reset kits to my P30 4.1ch LEM and HK45 LEM. The difference in reset reduction was enough that I would definitely recommend it if you're having issues short stroking the reset. It's enough that I decided any other LEM stuff I own in the future will be getting these short reset kits.

50254
50255

[GJM]

A few months ago I added the GGI short reset kits to my P30 4.1ch LEM and HK45 LEM. The difference in reset reduction was enough that I would definitely recommend it if you're having issues short stroking the reset. It's enough that I decided any other LEM stuff I own in the future will be getting these short reset kits.

50254
50255

Hey, is that my old P30?

[Sig_Fiend]

Hey, is that my old P30?

Not sure. I bought it from Notso here on PF 2 years ago. All I know is I've come to love the light LEM for what it IS, as opposed to what I might like my "perfect world" trigger to be. I think that's the real trick people could benefit from when approaching "different" triggers like this.

[GJM]

Not sure. I bought it from Notso here on PF 2 years ago. All I know is I've come to love the light LEM for what it IS, as opposed to what I might like my "perfect world" trigger to be. I think that's the real trick people could benefit from when approaching "different" triggers like this.

I am almost certain that was mine. The three little white paint marks signify it was my “number 3” P30 LEM, and it had a Heinie sights.

[Sig_Fiend]

In that case I'm honored to continue its legacy! ;-)

[GJM]

In that case I'm honored to continue its legacy! ;-)

Here is its cousin:

50267

[Westminster]

Family reunion50284

[GJM]

Family reunion50284

That is hysterical, so all these years later, my 1, 2 and 3 Sharpie paint marks are still there!

[MGW]

Wait a minute. GJM sold not one but two HK’s?

[fpnunes]

Wait a minute. GJM sold not one but two HK’s?

Blasphemy!

[JonInWA]

He did it to p-f members-blasphemy averted.

Best, Jon

[GJM]

Darryl was telling me that he shoots the P2000 better than the P30, while Wayne shoots the P30 better. I also found an old P2000 LEM near where I found the P30, and have been shooting it the last few days. I really dig it! While I can’t say I shoot the P2000 better than the P30, it is so close I call it a draw. That turns out to be a big plus for the P2000, as it carries so small. No paint mark, yet, but here it is — a safe queen with a second life to defend against the virus.

50363

[CCT125US]

Darryl was telling me that he shoots the P2000 better than the P30, while Wayne shoots the P30 better. I also found an old P2000 LEM near where I found the P30, and have been shooting it the last few days. I really dig it! While I can’t say I shoot the P2000 better than the P30, it is so close I call it a draw. That turns out to be a big plus for the P2000, as it carries so small. No paint mark, yet, but here it is — a safe queen with a second life to defend against the virus.

50363

Noticed your WTB posted first, and scrolled down to see this. What's the deal with the grip texture? Can't tell if that is taped or textured.

Debating on the sale..

[GJM]

Noticed your WTB posted first, and scrolled down to see this. What's the deal with the grip texture? Can't tell if that is taped or textured.

Debating on the sale..

Some skate board tape on the right side panel. Also, the HD sights regulate near tip of the front sight for me.

[SecondsCount]

I carry a P2000 LEM most of the time and practice/compete with a P30. The LEM trigger on the P2000 is a touch nicer but the P30 still shoots slightly better for me.

[JonInWA]

Without having any actual experience on one, I consider the P2000 to be an exceptionally nice update of sorts for the Mauser HSc (which was a very sleek and compact 7.65 mm/.380 small duty pistol). The HSc's had a mechanical art deco visual appeal, but were not particularly noted for their durability-and they're sights, like virtually all sights of that period were miniscule.

However, I don't consider my P30L to be particularly difficult to carry, both/either for duty or concealed carry, and I prefer their ergos, greater grip tailorability and larger magazine paddle release (but I'm aware that the larger paddle release of the USP Compact I believe can be easily installed if desired). Magazine capacity differences are pretty much a non-issue between the two for me.

Probably 9mm is the best route to go with the P2000 is my thought.

Hmm-since my P30L and VP40 are both in .40, perhaps a 9mm P2000 in V2 LEM might be desirable to broaden my HK horizon. For science, of course....

Best, Jon

[GJM]

Some other trigger systems seem to be more forgiving than the LEM when you push it or don’t make a great press. With the LEM, it yields the best results for me, when I shoot it at its speed.

I mentioned in a previous post that the Trijicon HD sights are well regulated on my P2000. I like HD sights as they lend themselves to target focused shooting.

This was ten rounds of 115 AE at 12 yards, earlier today.

50428

[Sauer Koch]

With the LEM, it yields the best results for me, when I shoot it at its speed.50428

The last part of this sentence is gold! It’s not a slow trigger system, but it’s slow-ER than a SF/SA. The average non-PF, LEM critic, would probably never believe that someone could shoot fast enough with one to earn a Turbo Pin from Gabe either, but it happened.

It’s nice to see the LEM getting some love here!

[GJM]

The last part of this sentence is gold! It’s not a slow trigger system, but it’s slow-ER than a SF/SA. The average non-PF, LEM critic, would probably never believe that someone could shoot fast enough with one to earn a Turbo Pin from Gabe either, but it happened.

It’s nice to see the LEM getting some love here!

Most of the LEM’s attributes, and for that matter the attributes of HK hammer guns, don’t show up on timer dominated drills. Administrative safety, appendix friendliness, carry friendly shape of the rear of the slide, accuracy, durability, weather resistance, fantastic magazines, to name some of those attributes.

The issue, is the LEM trigger system yields less results for a given level of skill, than some other trigger systems, which can be very frustrating for a shooter that doesn’t understand this, and is focused on pure performance. I also think there is a cliff with the LEM, where it requires some threshold of skill, before you can make that damn trigger work at all!

[Sauer Koch]

Most of the LEM’s attributes, and for that matter the attributes of HK hammer guns, don’t show up on timer dominated drills. Administrative safety, appendix friendliness, carry friendly shape of the rear of the slide, accuracy, durability, weather resistance, fantastic magazines, to name some of those attributes.

The issue, is the LEM trigger system yields less results for a given level of skill, than some other trigger systems, which can be very frustrating for a shooter that doesn’t understand this, and is focused on pure performance. I also think there is a cliff with the LEM, where it requires some threshold of skill, before you can make that damn trigger work at all!

Well put, and that last paragraph is another critical explanation that could help someone make a better decision, as to whether or not it’s the right fit for them.

[Doc_Glock]

I also think there is a cliff with the LEM, where it requires some threshold of skill, before you can make that damn trigger work at all!

I have put brand new shooters on a LEM when they were trying out various handguns. The results were pretty eye opening. They would go from ringing 8" steel at 5 yds no problem to miss, miss, miss, miss, hit, miss. The new shooters I have tried it with found the trigger pretty frustrating in general.

[flyrodr]

I always thought the LEM was a good trigger to teach/learn maintaining sight picture discipline. There's so much trigger movement (the initial slack removal, and then the longer press) that the shooter really has to (literally) stay focused longer and consciously work on a smooth press.

And that discipline, with only a bit of adjustment, translates to a better striker press.

But, that might just be me . . .

[Sauer Koch]

I have put brand new shooters on a LEM when they were trying out various handguns. The results were pretty eye opening. They would go from ringing 8" steel at 5 yds no problem to miss, miss, miss, miss, hit, miss. The new shooters I have tried it with found the trigger pretty frustrating in general.

Having shot a Sig 226 & 229 consistently for 3.5 yrs, I switched to LEM, and the transition wasn’t a big deal. I assume anyone who has spent ample time with a TDA, could do the same. (If I can do it, anyone can)

It’s easy for me to see how a new/inexperienced shooter might struggle with an LEM, due to the extended travel on each pull. I could see them thinking “why is there so much travel”...not understanding what the system was designed for.

It kills me to see people on other forums (even the HK forum) buy an LEM gun, having shot SF guns, and complaining about how it’s different than their VP9/G19 etc., asking about spring kits and reset kits to make it more like the SF guns...SMH

[GJM]

Speaking of Gabe’s class, this was my pistol.

50506

[fpnunes]

Speaking of Gabe’s class, this was my pistol.

50506

Nice! I passed on one last year when I was trying to run down a stainless USP compact. I still regret it and it will probably be my next purchase. Oddly, as much as I love the LEM trigger system, all of my USPs are DA/SA. I'm an old fart and have some antiquated notion of how certain firearms should be set up. It is the magic that is me :p

[breakingtime91]

I now have a hk usp 9c lem, a 30sk lem x2, a p30 lem x2

I like the usp 9c the best.. who would of thought but the 30sk carries really nice.

[GJM]

I now have a hk usp 9c lem, a 30sk lem x2, a p30 lem x2.

Shows promise :D

[breakingtime91]

Shows promise :D

what appendix holster do you use for your usp?

[SecondsCount]

I now have a hk usp 9c lem, a 30sk lem x2, a p30 lem x2

I like the usp 9c the best.. who would of thought but the 30sk carries really nice.

Full circle :cool:

I've been thinking about going to a P30SK with an extended mag for carry.

[GJM]

what appendix holster do you use for your usp?

JM George

[JonInWA]

GJM, on your P2000, did you keep the OEM magazine release paddle levers, or did you replace them with larger ones?

Best, Jon

[GJM]

GJM, on your P2000, did you keep the OEM magazine release paddle levers, or did you replace them with larger ones?

Best, Jon

Larger. The OEM seem itty bitty.

[Guinnessman]

JM George

You are soooooo predictable.🤣

[CCT125US]

Speaking of Gabe’s class, this was my pistol.

50506


I now have a hk usp 9c lem, a 30sk lem x2, a p30 lem x2

I like the usp 9c the best.. who would of thought but the 30sk carries really nice.

Very nice, gentlemen


The USP9c is an incredible gun. My current carry.

[Sauer Koch]

Speaking of Gabe’s class, this was my pistol.

50506

I shot a friends USPc 9, and noticed that the felt recoil was a bit more prevalent than my P30. I’m not sure why, but that would be a reason I may not buy one, even though I’d like to have a SS HK. Are the slides on these USP’s thicker/heavier, or is the difference in recoil due to other design features?



who would of thought but the 30sk carries really nice.

Agree, the P30SK with a 10r pinky ext. mag, is about as perfect as a carry gun can be. It’s easy to conceal and is such a flat shooter, especially considering it’s size. We have 2 SK’s, both V1, one is my wife’s carry gun. Highly recommended!

[SecondsCount]

I shot a friends USPc 9, and noticed that the felt recoil was a bit more prevalent than my P30. I’m not sure why, but that would be a reason I may not buy one, even though I’d like to have a SS HK. Are the slides on these USP’s thicker/heavier, or is the difference in recoil due to other design features?
....


I shot my step brother's and thought the same thing. At the time, I didn't have my other HK's with me to compare so I just figured it was me.

[Sauer Koch]

I shot my step brother's and thought the same thing. At the time, I didn't have my other HK's with me to compare so I just figured it was me.

Yeah, it wasn’t terrible, but enough to notice. Accuracy wise, I shot it just fine. The ergo’s on a P30 are second to none, so between the ergo’s & recoil, the P30 is the clear winner.

[CCT125US]

I shot a friends USPc 9, and noticed that the felt recoil was a bit more prevalent than my P30. I’m not sure why, but that would be a reason I may not buy one, even though I’d like to have a SS HK. Are the slides on these USP’s thicker/heavier, or is the difference in recoil due to other design features?



I shot my step brother's and thought the same thing.

Interesting seeing the experience of others. For me, the USP9c tracks flatter and returns more consistently than my P30. Also others state the .45c is a soft shooter, but I find the recoil unpleasant.

I also found that when I ran the USP9c as a v1, my grip had to shift in order to properly work the safety. This resulted in much improved overall performance, and I try to maintain that grip even though I have switched back to v7 LEM.

Recoil is certainly subjective.

[breakingtime91]

I zeroed my x95 yesterday (thank god we just got the notice of shelter in place and it was way off) and took my p30sk lem off and put it next to me while I was in the prone in its darkstar holster. After verifying zero with the scope on my 6.5 I noticed that the wind and muzzle blast kick up had coated the p30sk in the holster. Not just a little bit of sand but a large amount of New Mexico Moon dust. I shook it off and fired the entire magazine into a nice tight group at 20 yards. Not saying other pistols wouldn't do it but I didn't doubt the little hk for a second, which means a lot right now.

[Sauer Koch]

I zeroed my x95 yesterday (thank god we just got the notice of shelter in place and it was way off) and took my p30sk lem off and put it next to me while I was in the prone in its darkstar holster. After verifying zero with the scope on my 6.5 I noticed that the wind and muzzle blast kick up had coated the p30sk in the holster. Not just a little bit of sand but a large amount of New Mexico Moon dust. I shook it off and fired the entire magazine into a nice tight group at 20 yards. Not saying other pistols wouldn't do it but I didn't doubt the little hk for a second, which means a lot right now.

I'd describe it as 'a little gun, that shoots like a big gun'.




Recoil is certainly subjective.

Interestingly, yes.

[JonInWA]

I zeroed my x95 yesterday (thank god we just got the notice of shelter in place and it was way off) and took my p30sk lem off and put it next to me while I was in the prone in its darkstar holster. After verifying zero with the scope on my 6.5 I noticed that the wind and muzzle blast kick up had coated the p30sk in the holster. Not just a little bit of sand but a large amount of New Mexico Moon dust. I shook it off and fired the entire magazine into a nice tight group at 20 yards. Not saying other pistols wouldn't do it but I didn't doubt the little hk for a second, which means a lot right now.

Totally agree; my "environmentally impervious" choices are Glock, HK, Beretta 92, Ruger P89, followed by FN High Power and 1911 (and I think a case could be made for carrying hammer down/hammerdown/chamber empty in an "environmentally challenging" situation, to close off an obvious point of media ingress that cocked-and-locked presents).

However, in situations where disassembly beyond field-stripping is required to get rid of media infiltrations, it's a Glock kinda day, in my opinion.

Revolvers, I'm not so sure about. I seem to recall Chuck Taylor did some cold weather testing with semi-autos and a revolver in the 1997 timeframe, and the revolver (a S&W Model 27 .357) did flawlessly, as did a Glock G17, FN/Browning High Power, and Colt 1911. A S&W Model 39 semi failed the 750 round test, and a Beretta 92F and IG P226 both had some malfunctions, but both successfully finished his test (Detailed in "The Gun Digest Book of COmbat Handgunnery 4th Edition," pp. 39-41, published in 1997.) When I think about it, a revolver's action would seem pretty well sealed against dust and dirt-anyone have any significant experiences?

Best, Jon

[GJM]

“Revolver” can mean a wide range of designs, just like “1911” or “semi-auto.” In a rough setting, I would be a lot more comfortable with a Ruger Redhawk, for example, than a Freedom Arms.

[JonInWA]

“Revolver” can mean a wide range of designs, just like “1911” or “semi-auto.” In a rough setting, I would be a lot more comfortable with a Ruger Redhawk, for example, than a Freedom Arms.

Fair point. In my case, I'm talking about Rugers-Specifically GP100, Security Six (stainless), Blackhawk (stainless); I'd be pretty comfortable with any of them in the field. While the GP100 is blued, I wipe it down thoroughly with a Sentry Solutions Tuff Cloth prior to excursions, which has worked well.

The Rugers seem pretty well sealed from media intrusion, relatively speaking, and field-stripping, particularly for the GP100 and Security 6, is pretty easily accomplished in the field if necessary (as long as you've got a screwdriver for the necessary screws {only the grip screw on the GP100 and Security 6} the takedown pin for the captured mainspring-the OEM grips have a slot for it, but if you've replaced the grips, you may have to find another storage location for the pin).

Best, Jon

[Alembic]

what appendix holster do you use for your usp?

JM, not sure which model, going on five years old.
If it wasn't for the extra tuck bump, I couldn't tell it apart from my G19s Dark Star.

USPc9 is a TLG LEM, with a .45c mag release.

[McNamara]

I thought about starting a new thread, but I searched and found this one.

I just acquired a P30 V3 from my brother today. I gave him a G17 with Dawson sights for his birthday a few years ago; he gave me his HK in exchange for a set of weights. He's definitely missing the gym during the quarantine era, eh? Anyway, I've shot this exact pistol only a few times and it's still pretty mint. The majority of my experience is with issue M9s and a bit with my old 1911s, a few striker fired pistols, and a DAO revolver. So I don't have a problem with the V3 DA/SA trigger. I think it's pretty decent, though not as nice as a Sig or maybe even Beretta.

However, I've been a longtime PF reader and have always been longing to try the LEM trigger. I found a thread on HK-Pro on how to convert the V3 to various LEM variants. How much does this cost? I'm confident in my ability to do the work, just wonder whether the price is worth the effort. As I said, I'm well experienced with TDA actions, but there's a chance I might like the LEM more. Do you guys think converting my new-ish P30 to LEM is worth voiding the factory warranty to try it out?

[JDB]

I thought about starting a new thread, but I searched and found this one.

I just acquired a P30 V3 from my brother today. I gave him a G17 with Dawson sights for his birthday a few years ago; he gave me his HK in exchange for a set of weights. He's definitely missing the gym during the quarantine era, eh? Anyway, I've shot this exact pistol only a few times and it's still pretty mint. The majority of my experience is with issue M9s and a bit with my old 1911s, a few striker fired pistols, and a DAO revolver. So I don't have a problem with the V3 DA/SA trigger. I think it's pretty decent, though not as nice as a Sig or maybe even Beretta.

However, I've been a longtime PF reader and have always been longing to try the LEM trigger. I found a thread on HK-Pro on how to convert the V3 to various LEM variants. How much does this cost? I'm confident in my ability to do the work, just wonder whether the price is worth the effort. As I said, I'm well experienced with TDA actions, but there's a chance I might like the LEM more. Do you guys think converting my new-ish P30 to LEM is worth voiding the factory warranty to try it out?

I did the conversion, but kept the de cocker. So its LEM, but also I can Decock and fire the first shot DA if I want. The parts change was about $200 I think. It’s been a few years. You can save a little buy keeping the same decocker.

As far as warranty goes, you could always change it back.

[David S.]

I thought about starting a new thread, but I searched and found this one.

However, I've been a longtime PF reader and have always been longing to try the LEM trigger. I found a thread on HK-Pro on how to convert the V3 to various LEM variants. How much does this cost? I'm confident in my ability to do the work, just wonder whether the price is worth the effort. As I said, I'm well experienced with TDA actions, but there's a chance I might like the LEM more. Do you guys think converting my new-ish P30 to LEM is worth voiding the factory warranty to try it out?

Dobbs and Bolke are running First Responder in mid May. They may have a LEM gun or two that you could borrow and run. That course is highlights the LEM’s strengths.

[McNamara]

I did the conversion, but kept the de cocker. So its LEM, but also I can Decock and fire the first shot DA if I want. The parts change was about $200 I think. It’s been a few years. You can save a little buy keeping the same decocker.

As far as warranty goes, you could always change it back.

Good point about changing it back, vis-a-vis the warranty. The cost of parts sort of puts me off, but it's the same as buying 3-4 extra magazines or a couple of range sessions, I suppose. Worth a try!



Dobbs and Bolke are running First Responder in mid May. They may have a LEM gun or two that you could borrow and run. That course is highlights the LEM’s strengths.

I've been meaning to go to one of their courses, thanks for the reminder. That range is only 20 minutes from me.

[OlongJohnson]

If you're confident with the DIY route, figure out your part number list from geek-out discussions on HKPro. Then go to the HK Web Shop. If something is out of stock or the part number doesn't come up, give them a call. They generally will accept backorders. Order takers are friendly, and the prices are ~1/3 to 1/2 lower than most other retail sources.

Also, check whether the warranty transfers from the first owner to you.

Finally, in the past, I've seen H&K techs state that they can generally see the witness marks when parts are changed by other people without the tools HK USA uses - little scratches, etc. So it's conceivable that if you do the "put it back to stock" and send it in for warranty work, they'll know.

Most of my USPs come to me in the condition of, "Warranty? What's that?" So far, the "USP" engraved on the slide has been all the warranty I've needed. :)

[RevolverRob]

However, I've been a longtime PF reader and have always been longing to try the LEM trigger. I found a thread on HK-Pro on how to convert the V3 to various LEM variants. How much does this cost? I'm confident in my ability to do the work, just wonder whether the price is worth the effort. As I said, I'm well experienced with TDA actions, but there's a chance I might like the LEM more. Do you guys think converting my new-ish P30 to LEM is worth voiding the factory warranty to try it out?

I would definitely try shooting an LEM gun first. I have kind of the same breadth of experiences you do with trigger systems and while I liked the LEM, it is sufficiently "different" to not really have a comparison and thus has to be "seen to be believed". I both love it and hate it, I had two P30 LEMs for a while and will likely pick up a 45C and convert it to an LEM soon, but it's like being a glutton for punishment...it's not a trigger system that tolerates slacking off of dryfire even for a minute. Whereas the TDA you can probably set it aside for a few months and pick it up and not be much worse for the wear. Set aside an LEM for a few months to do other things and it's gonna be a 'minute' before you're back up to speed.

[backtrail540]

There are a pair of v1 p30's milled with L&Ms aimpoint acro adapters on gunbroker right now. I was going to grab one or both when there were 3 available but my plans are on temporary hold. Passing along the deal.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/863711033

[KneeShot]

McNamara,

I’m in a similar boat. Looking at converting a USP 45 FS to LEM. I’ve read a lot of posts on P-F. They have conversion kits on HKparts.. I’m 80% percent there on ordering the kit and pliers. I haven’t looked on the HK webshop, yet.
A few YouTube videos I’ve found helpful have been:
- Which LEM is best LEM by Devil Dolphin...he talks about some differences...mentions the P30 quite a bit.
- USP Trigger weights by FirearmTutorials....

The YouTube videos are really nice to watch for more LEM context. You may want to search more P30 specific.

HKpro is cool, just gotta cut through the BS. Anything on there posted by Twosixy is LEGIT.

Good luck

Jereny

[McNamara]

"Warranty? What's that?" So far, the "USP" engraved on the slide has been all the warranty I've needed. :)

Good point. I honestly doubt I'll be able to break this thing.


...it's not a trigger system that tolerates slacking off of dryfire even for a minute. Whereas the TDA you can probably set it aside for a few months and pick it up and not be much worse for the wear. Set aside an LEM for a few months to do other things and it's gonna be a 'minute' before you're back up to speed.

That's interesting. Yes, I've found that TDA is like riding a bike, in that once you've got enough reps under the belt, it always comes back to you. I didn't know that maybe LEM could be the opposite.

It might just be that it's been too long since I last shot an M9, but the P30 trigger doesn't really seem that much worse to me. And on another aside, is it just me or are the medium grip panels/backstrap barely any bigger than the small, whereas the large are friggin' yuge?

[RevolverRob]

And on another aside, is it just me or are the medium grip panels/backstrap barely any bigger than the small, whereas the large are friggin' yuge?

Not just you.

I ground down a large backstrap a little bit more flat and used small side panels to finally get the right fit for me, and it seems like there could be an "intermediate" or "large medium" sized strap in between. Good news is, 2 minutes with a dremel will solve the problem. Be careful though, I ruined one backstrap grinding too fast and had to order a replacement.

[David S.]

I've been meaning to go to one of their courses, thanks for the reminder. That range is only 20 minutes from me.

Let me know if you want to meet up and put a few rounds through a social distancing P30 and P30SK. I’m a member of that range and my work schedule is pretty light next week.

[JonInWA]

I would definitely try shooting an LEM gun first. I have kind of the same breadth of experiences you do with trigger systems and while I liked the LEM, it is sufficiently "different" to not really have a comparison and thus has to be "seen to be believed". I both love it and hate it, I had two P30 LEMs for a while and will likely pick up a 45C and convert it to an LEM soon, but it's like being a glutton for punishment...it's not a trigger system that tolerates slacking off of dryfire even for a minute. Whereas the TDA you can probably set it aside for a few months and pick it up and not be much worse for the wear. Set aside an LEM for a few months to do other things and it's gonna be a 'minute' before you're back up to speed.

That may be true, but a significant amount of the gap can be closed simply by a good dryfire protocol; I always dryfire prior to use/duty on any given platform.

Best, Jon

[McNamara]

Not just you.

I ground down a large backstrap a little bit more flat and used small side panels to finally get the right fit for me, and it seems like there could be an "intermediate" or "large medium" sized strap in between. Good news is, 2 minutes with a dremel will solve the problem. Be careful though, I ruined one backstrap grinding too fast and had to order a replacement.

My brother left the mediums all around on the P30 and it seemed to fit my hand perfectly. It now wears the small panels and I can barely tell the difference!


Let me know if you want to meet up and put a few rounds through a social distancing P30 and P30SK. I’m a member of that range and my work schedule is pretty light next week.

Thanks, I really appreciate it. PM inbound. I work mostly from home these days so my schedule is pretty flexible.

Edited to add: Auto-forwarding. I've experienced it with most semiauto pistols to some extent, but not always consistently. This pistol does it, depending on how hard I insert a loaded mag. Does this track with others' experiences?

[GJM]

I put the larger mag release levers on my P2000, and ecently saw interference with at least one holster.

If you look at the large levers, which come stock on the P30, they are more protected. The larger levers on the P2000 stick out more. I really don’t like the stock small mag release levers on the P2000, but given the nature of how I use the P2000, am considering switching back to small levers. Anyone else have this concern?

[11B10]

My brother left the mediums all around on the P30 and it seemed to fit my hand perfectly. It now wears the small panels and I can barely tell the difference!



Thanks, I really appreciate it. PM inbound. I work mostly from home these days so my schedule is pretty flexible.

Edited to add: Auto-forwarding. I've experienced it with most semiauto pistols to some extent, but not always consistently. This pistol does it, depending on how hard I insert a loaded mag. Does this track with others' experiences?



RE: Your question about auto-forwarding - both P30SK 's I've previously owned exhibited it. By my recollection, it was approximately 75% of the time.

[JonInWA]

I put the larger mag release levers on my P2000, and ecently saw interference with at least one holster.

If you look at the large levers, which come stock on the P30, they are more protected. The larger levers on the P2000 stick out more. I really don’t like the stock small mag release levers on the P2000, but given the nature of how I use the P2000, am considering switching back to small levers. Anyone else have this concern?

Or just get a custom-made kydex that's blocked appropriately during the molding/forming process to take into account the larger levers; a good kydex outfit should be easily able to accomodate for them.

Best, Jon

[SecondsCount]

I put the larger mag release levers on my P2000, and ecently saw interference with at least one holster.

If you look at the large levers, which come stock on the P30, they are more protected. The larger levers on the P2000 stick out more. I really don’t like the stock small mag release levers on the P2000, but given the nature of how I use the P2000, am considering switching back to small levers. Anyone else have this concern?

You should do what makes you comfortable. My levers are the original. It probably costs me a couple tenths in a reload and I never worried about it...but I am the type to leave my guns stock, with maybe a sight change.

[GJM]

In terms of HK hammer guns, I think of the USP family as one system, and the HK45/HK45C/P30/P30L/P2000 as another system. I like that with an HK45 or P30L holster, I can generally run all that “family” of pistols. The holster that gave me a problem with a Blade Tech OWB for the P30L. I value being able to run a bunch of holsters, from AIWB to range to retention, without fuss, so I will probably switch back to the small paddles.

[flyrodr]

I put the larger mag release levers on my P2000, and ecently saw interference with at least one holster.

If you look at the large levers, which come stock on the P30, they are more protected. The larger levers on the P2000 stick out more. I really don’t like the stock small mag release levers on the P2000, but given the nature of how I use the P2000, am considering switching back to small levers. Anyone else have this concern?

I have 3-4 P2000/SKs, and put the large levers on all. Haven't noticed any fit issues, but all my holsters (OWB, IWB, AIWB) for them are from JM.

[OlongJohnson]

I put the larger mag release levers on my P2000, and ecently saw interference with at least one holster.

If you look at the large levers, which come stock on the P30, they are more protected. The larger levers on the P2000 stick out more. I really don’t like the stock small mag release levers on the P2000, but given the nature of how I use the P2000, am considering switching back to small levers. Anyone else have this concern?

I don't have a P2K, but as discussed several times in other threads (with pics), I like the HK45c levers (when modified appropriately for form/fit/function) on my USPs. But I don't like them with the paddles full size. I always sand them down to make them more tapered with softer edges. A medium/Goldilocks/snowflake lever. My JMCK AIWB for USPc clears my snowflake levers just fine with a minimum of relieving the edge of the Kydex, maybe 1/2 mm or so. Levers and holster are plastic, so it's really easy to sand a little bit.

[GJM]

I don't have a P2K, but as discussed several times in other threads (with pics), I like the HK45c levers (when modified appropriately for form/fit/function) on my USPs. But I don't like them with the paddles full size. I always sand them down to make them more tapered with softer edges. A medium/Goldilocks/snowflake lever. My JMCK AIWB for USPc clears my snowflake levers just fine with a minimum of relieving the edge of the Kydex, maybe 1/2 mm or so. Levers and holster are plastic, so it's really easy to sand a little bit.

My understanding the HK45C paddles are fine in a USP Compact, but a no go on the USP full size. On the 9/40, because of the plastic magazines, and on the 45, because magazines can fall out with full power loads like +P and Super.

[OlongJohnson]

I think these old posts cover everything I think I know about this topic at this time.

TLDR: If the HK45c catch is installed without appropriate modification, it only partially engages the notch on the magazine, so the magazine may not be held securely. If the catch is modified appropriately, it is demonstrable that the tab achieves full engagement with the notch on the magazine (at least with the steel mags of the USP .45 FS and USPc), because the at-rest position is controlled by the inserted magazine. I haven't done it yet with the 9/40 FS plastic-bodied mags, but I do intend to test it.



Other stuff:
I fitted a HK45c mag catch. Notice I didn't write "installed," I wrote "fitted." The extended catch needs a little material removed from the section that abuts the underside of the trigger guard. Look at the frame, the standard catch, and the extended catch and it should become clear. Flattening out that raised section allows the catch lever to rotate fully upward, and the tab that holds the mag to fully engage the notch on the front of the mag. Inserting a magazine bumps the tab forward from the point the top of the mag reaches the catch tab, just like the standard part, and with the mag engaged, there is clearance between the catch and the trigger guard. It's fully engaged with the spring loading it against the mag.

Once the fit/function part was done, I did a little reduction on the extended paddles. They're just fiber- reinforced plastic, so it's easy to remove material with an X-Acto knife and sandpaper, and you don't even have to refinish anything. The stock extended paddles are just a little too big and kinda lumpy in awkward places. I left the length alone, but slimmed, tapered and smoothed them and undercut the undersides a bit.


Anyway, this is one I did awhile ago on my old police trade USP .45 FS. Same mod as for the USPc.

At left is the original USP catch. In the middle is an unfitted HK45c catch. On the right is the fitted catch before the paddle reduction.

Basically, the raised bar between the paddles needs to be shaved down to be flush with the rest of the forward-facing surface, so it fits like the USP catch. It might be half a mm of material to remove. Pretty simple. Shave with an X-Acto knife, file it flush and sand to make it smooth and clean up the edges. On the end of the tab itself (the part that engages the magazine notch), I also knock the peaks of the roughness off the stamping fracture surface and remove the burr.

With a mag inserted, the area between the paddles that I've shaved down is raised away from the trigger guard at least enough for a thick piece of paper or business card stock to slip freely between them, so I know the position of the mag catch is being controlled by full engagement with the mag.

42557

The problem with not fitting it is that the raised bar runs into the relief on the underside of the trigger guard and prevents the catch from rotating all the way upward. This prevents the tab from protruding far enough into the magwell. It will engage the notch on the magazine, but not fully. Rather than being fully engaged in the notch, it's just hanging on the edge of the notch. There are reports of guns dropping mags under recoil. It's not clear to me whether that occurs immediately or if the problem is that over time, the tab wears the edge of the notch and softens/rounds the edge until the mag is no longer securely held. Possibly both. (The answer to most multi-factor problems is "it depends.")

The wear/damage issue is especially of concern with the plastic bodies on the full-size USP 9/40 mags. I haven't yet done this on a full-size USP 9/40, so I can't say for sure it will work properly there, but I would apply the same evaluation criteria. I do expect that the smaller, steel tab would be fine if it is fully engaged in the molded pocket in the magazine. I think the problems result from it engaging only the edge of the pocket. I do intend to test that with a few tens of thousands of rounds through one of these guns eventually. Just not there yet.

You also need to check the paddles for interference with any holster the gun will be used in. There's no good reason to assume that holster makers provide room for the larger paddle in their molds, and interaction with the holster could conceivably cause a mag to become disengaged from the catch and not be noticed until some time that it's really needed.

It's really, really important to get all the details of this right, because dropping mags under recoil or at another unintended time can get you kilt in da streetz.

I've posted my observations and reasoning here. If someone can explain how I'm wrong, I'd appreciate being told about it. I believe I've gotten it right, but I am not a licensed gunsmith or gunsmith instructor, so any action you take is entirely at your own risk.

Ergonomically, the unfitted catch also causes the paddles to sit a little low, underhanging the trigger guard, which makes their oversizeness even more annoying. So fitting it puts them in the correct alignment, then the reduction makes them the right size and shape, which is entirely to taste.

ETA:
Thinking about it further, it's conceivable that some shooters might inadvertently activate the oversized paddles due to gun movement during recoil and simply not notice that's what's happening. Which would be another reason to pay attention to the paddle reduction aspect. They only need to be big enough to work well for you, not any bigger.

[spj]

Installed the Grayguns short reset kit in my P2000. Wow! My p2000 trigger is now functionally the same as my lite LEM HK45. I can run it at speed with no short stroking! It is fast. Best money spent on gear in the recent past. On another note I cannibalized one of my 17 round VP9 mags and put the guts in the P2000 mag. It will take 15 instead of 13 but is nigh impossible to seat on a closed slide. 14 rounds and all works great.

[Balisong]

Installed the Grayguns short reset kit in my P2000. Wow! My p2000 trigger is now functionally the same as my lite LEM HK45. I can run it at speed with no short stroking! It is fast. Best money spent on gear in the recent past. On another note I cannibalized one of my 17 round VP9 mags and put the guts in the P2000 mag. It will take 15 instead of 13 but is nigh impossible to seat on a closed slide. 14 rounds and all works great.

I can pretty easily get 15 9mm rounds in my .40 USPc (same as P2K) mag. Worked fine for a couple hundred rounds with my 9mm conversion barrel for my USPc. Probably would for your P2K also

[spj]

I can pretty easily get 15 9mm rounds in my .40 USPc (same as P2K) mag. Worked fine for a couple hundred rounds with my 9mm conversion barrel for my USPc. Probably would for your P2K also

interesting, ill keep my eyes peeled for one!

[GJM]

Installed the Grayguns short reset kit in my P2000. Wow! My p2000 trigger is now functionally the same as my lite LEM HK45. I can run it at speed with no short stroking! It is fast. Best money spent on gear in the recent past. On another note I cannibalized one of my 17 round VP9 mags and put the guts in the P2000 mag. It will take 15 instead of 13 but is nigh impossible to seat on a closed slide. 14 rounds and all works great.

Who else has has experience with this — wondering about trying it in a P2000/P30?

[GJM]

What is hysterical, is that I am reading reviews on the GGI website, and there is my old pistol again!

51530

[Guinnessman]

What is hysterical, is that I am reading reviews on the GGI website, and there is my old pistol again!

51530

The P30 is calling you!🤣😜

[GJM]

Default.mp3

What do you think of the L&M installation of an Acro or RMR on a P30?

[David S.]

Default.mp3

What do you think of the L&M installation of an Acro or RMR on a P30?

As another option, I know John Correia of Active Self Protection has had his milk work done by Wright Armory in Mesa, AZ. AFAIK he has significant round count and quite a few classes on his installs and is satisfied. I believe LTT works with them too.

MinisterMalice.

[Default.mp3]

@Default.mp3 (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=1132)

What do you think of the L&M installation of an Acro or RMR on a P30?To be perfectly honest, I'm probably not the best person to ask, simply because I have zero experience with any other folks and other platforms, so the best I can say is that I've not had any issues outside of a slightly loose rear sight dovetail on one of my ACRO guns (would slowly drift under recoil, remedied with some Loctite 271). Other than that, I abused it quite a bit over the years when I had RMRs on them, and never had an issue that wasn't due to my own error (used an RMR screw that was too long to mount, and deformed the adapter plate, which Mark fixed right up for me); never lost zero, never had the RMRs go out (Type 1s, used the BattleWerx anti-flicker plate about halfway through their lives). Sight picture on the ACROs give using Dawson Precision fiber suppressor fronts and some Ameriglo (I think) Glock suppressor rear puts it at about 1/4th co-witness, so the front sight will poke up to about 1/3rd up the sight picture when centering the dot in the ACRO. Not the cleanest of sight pictures, but not bad either (seen my friend with a DPP on a P320 with DPP height front sights, shit was pretty bad there).

I will say that Mark has always been a pleasure to work with, with excellent comms via email, something that seems to be a rarity in the gun industry.

[Default.mp3]

Co-witnessed:
https://i.imgur.com/OhmsNHyh.jpg

Dot centered:
https://i.imgur.com/ioE2PD5h.jpg

Dawson 0.365" front sight. Ameriglo 0.360" rear.

[Maca]

Default.mp3

What do you think of the L&M installation of an Acro or RMR on a P30?

Mark installed an RMR on my HK 45C. The work was flawless, as expected, but definitely chunky compared to something like an RMR on a glock, given the overall taller profile of a hammer gun.

51571

51572

[javemtr]

Who else has has experience with this — wondering about trying it in a P2000/P30?
General consensus is positive, the improvements seem especially pronounced for the P series: https://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-heads-up/481690-hk-usp-hk45-p30-p2000-short-reset-systems-8.html#post3467746

[GJM]

I wonder if a RMS could be installed on a P30, and use the OEM height sights as BUIS?

[Default.mp3]

I wonder if a RMS could be installed on a P30, and use the OEM height sights as BUIS?If you're going for as low profile as possible, I know Mark has explored the possibility of direct mounting an ACRO, as a buddy of mine wanted to try that route if possible; IIRC, it can be done, but it leaves a void in the slide under the ACRO, which is probably less than desirable for environmental issues.

[GJM]

You would think the P30 and P2000 would be essentially similar in shooting characteristics, or the advantage would go to the P30 because of the full-size grip and modern grip design. Time after time, I definitively shoot the P2000 better than the P30, and enough better that the P30 feels like a whole different design. Only thing I can think of is the flat sides of the P2000. Since the P2000 carries smaller AIWB, this is a happy thing for me.

[SecondsCount]

The P30SK rules them all ;)

[Doc_Glock]

You would think the P30 and P2000 would be essentially similar in shooting characteristics, or the advantage would go to the P30 because of the full-size grip and modern grip design. Time after time, I definitively shoot the P2000 better than the P30, and enough better that the P30 feels like a whole different design. Only thing I can think of is the flat sides of the P2000. Since the P2000 carries smaller AIWB, this is a happy thing for me.


Not at all the case for me. I easily outshoot the P2000 with P30.

I think it is twofold: the P30 grip really agrees with me. The P2000 is too long fore-aft compared to sides. And the P30 trigger isn’t usually a pound lighter when comparing similar variants.

[GJM]

Not at all the case for me. I easily outshoot the P2000 with P30.

I think it is twofold: the P30 grip really agrees with me. The P2000 is too long fore-aft compared to sides. And the P30 trigger isn’t usually a pound lighter when comparing similar variants.

The P30 and P2000 are obviously the same family of pistols. It is very interesting, because my P2000 and P30 are set up the same (V1 LEM), and yet I see a significant difference. You obviously observe the opposite, in terms of your preference. Seems like it has to be how we interface with the two different design grips?

Just to confirm, you have the same LEM setup in your P2000 and P30?

[GJM]

I forgot to mention that I spent a fair amount of time shooting one hand with the LEM today. I can get the job done, but it takes oodles of more effort to one hand the LEM. My theory is the long take up travel, followed by a firm wall, followed by some creep before the trigger releases makes for a contorted press. Without patience, it is very easy to yank the snot out of the LEM one handed.

[Balisong]

You would think the P30 and P2000 would be essentially similar in shooting characteristics, or the advantage would go to the P30 because of the full-size grip and modern grip design. Time after time, I definitively shoot the P2000 better than the P30, and enough better that the P30 feels like a whole different design. Only thing I can think of is the flat sides of the P2000. Since the P2000 carries smaller AIWB, this is a happy thing for me.

Have you experimented with the different grip panels? I haven't done that yet with my P30S, but wonder if that will make a difference in how you shoot it.

[GJM]

Have you experimented with the different grip panels?

Yes, back in the day, for about five years.

[Sig_Fiend]

You would think the P30 and P2000 would be essentially similar in shooting characteristics, or the advantage would go to the P30 because of the full-size grip and modern grip design. Time after time, I definitively shoot the P2000 better than the P30, and enough better that the P30 feels like a whole different design. Only thing I can think of is the flat sides of the P2000. Since the P2000 carries smaller AIWB, this is a happy thing for me.

I feel like there might be something to this. I carry my P30 a majority of the time. I love it, but something about the ergonomic grip just seems "different" to me. I can't describe it yet, but it feels like I have to "work" a bit more with it, if that makes sense? It's maybe been 8-10 years since I shot any USPs or P2Ks. I don't remember having to actively manage my grip and support hand position quite as much as I do with the P30. More recently I've been thinking about going to a USP9C or P2K for carry because of it. I just wish I could remember how my grip (method) felt with those since it's been so long.

[CCT125US]

I feel like there might be something to this. I carry my P30 a majority of the time. I love it, but something about the ergonomic grip just seems "different" to me. I can't describe it yet, but it feels like I have to "work" a bit more with it, if that makes sense? It's maybe been 8-10 years since I shot any USPs or P2Ks. I don't remember having to actively manage my grip and support hand position quite as much as I do with the P30. More recently I've been thinking about going to a USP9C or P2K for carry because of it. I just wish I could remember how my grip (method) felt with those since it's been so long.

Correct, if you dig a bit, it has been discussed at length. Short synopsis is that eventhough the P30 "feels" good in the hand, it doesn't provide the feed back a more square sided pistol provides. Think of it as griping a 2x4 vs a broomstick, and trying to "point" the front edge.

[SecondsCount]

Not at all the case for me. I easily outshoot the P2000 with P30.

I think it is twofold: the P30 grip really agrees with me. The P2000 is too long fore-aft compared to sides. And the P30 trigger isn’t usually a pound lighter when comparing similar variants.
Similar experience here.

Maybe it is the size of my hand but the curve of the P30 fills into my palm better. Also, the finger grooves provide more area of contact with my fingers.

The P2000 is a nice size for carrying but the P30 is still my favorite.

[GJM]

How thoughtful of HK to provide two nearly identical pistols — one optimized for guys with big hands like Trump, and another for guys with smaller, more sensitive hands. :p

[Doc_Glock]

The P30 and P2000 are obviously the same family of pistols. It is very interesting, because my P2000 and P30 are set up the same (V1 LEM), and yet I see a significant difference. You obviously observe the opposite, in terms of your preference. Seems like it has to be how we interface with the two different design grips?

Just to confirm, you have the same LEM setup in your P2000 and P30?

Yes, identical set ups. I missed the edit window to my post but I meant to say that the P2000 is always about 1 lb heavier with an otherwise identical set up. That is actually incorrect.

For this post I checked my records and found the Lite LEM is actually identical at 4.5#. So is the DA/SA when using the same Springs. My bad.

Lite LEM identical 4.5#
P2000 DA/SA 9/4.5
P30 DA/SA 9/4.5
The P30Sk is the one with the pound heavier non tunable trigger.

So it is the grip.

[Doc_Glock]

Also adding the USPc into the mix. I know it is a beloved HK, but I absolutely could not get along with the grip. It was just too tiny. I couldn’t shoot it well at all compared to the P2000 or P30.

I use the largest grip panels all around on the P30. I don’t have large hands but I like the extra surface area.

I use the Large rear panel on the P2000. The XL is a big jump and makes it way too oblong.

All this makes me think I need a full sized USP.

And beyond all this I really like the Glock grip best and shoot them bare of any back straps.

[spj]

After transitioning to the HK45 from the USP45 I was in love with the grip. That evaporated when I wasn't able to shoot it better. It took a good while to get back to where I was with the USP. One area where the HK45/P30 wins for me is "grippyness'. The USP was slippery when wet if you will, any amount of sweat without some grip tape was not good.

[GJM]

I just put a set of HD XR sights on my old P30 LEM, retiring that old set of Heinie sights. They regulate well.

My wife and I were working a difficult steel array with our CO pistols, and at the end I dragged the P30 out. Two hand was fine, but I made the mistake of shooting that array with one hand with the P30. I consider my one hand skills to be strong, based on Rogers School and USPSA classifier benchmarking. I flat out suffered one hand with the P30 LEM today, bring back old P30 LEM frustrations on my first visit to Rogers. In the next day or two, I am going to bring out a USP FS 9 and test my theory that the P30/HK45 style grip is particularly unsuited to one hand shooting.

[SecondsCount]

..... test my theory that the P30/HK45 style grip is particularly unsuited to one hand shooting.
What are you comparing, and why would the grip make a difference?

[GJM]

What I note is a difference in how I shoot the P2000/USP FS compared to the P30, with the P30 much harder for me to shoot with one hand. I am going to do some testing, but my theory is the P30 grip is more friendly to two hands, where both hands settle into the rounded shape of the P30 grip. With just one hand, when I hold the P30 and compare it to a straight grip HK like the P2000 and USP, I notice the rounded shape of the P30 makes my grip less consistent, and the pistol seems to be swimming. I am hoping to head back to the range shortly and do some science.

[SecondsCount]

Before you blame it on the grip, what is the trigger weight comparison?

I've always felt that the trigger pull on the P30 was on the heavy side, no matter what you did to it, but if you teach yourself to accelerate through the press, the weight issue goes away. It could also be that you tend to pin the trigger.

We need Jerry Miculek to teach us how he does it with a revolver 😎

[Balisong]

I just put a set of HD XR sights on my old P30 LEM, retiring that old set of Heinie sights. They regulate well.

My wife and I were working a difficult steel array with our CO pistols, and at the end I dragged the P30 out. Two hand was fine, but I made the mistake of shooting that array with one hand with the P30. I consider my one hand skills to be strong, based on Rogers School and USPSA classifier benchmarking. I flat out suffered one hand with the P30 LEM today, bring back old P30 LEM frustrations on my first visit to Rogers. In the next day or two, I am going to bring out a USP FS 9 and test my theory that the P30/HK45 style grip is particularly unsuited to one hand shooting.

Are the Trijicon HD sights death to shirts on a P30 like with most guns? I've heard that that's not the case so much with them on USPs but never really heard in regards to the P30 platform. I want some good visibility night sights on my P30 that won't destroy my clothes

[CCT125US]

Are the Trijicon HD sights death to shirts on a P30 like with most guns? I've heard that that's not the case so much with them on USPs but never really heard in regards to the P30 platform. I want some good visibility night sights on my P30 that won't destroy my clothes

For me Trijicon HD sights were a no go. Super sharp, and did not regulate. Not to pimp Night Fision, but visibility is outstanding.

52009

[Balisong]

For me Trijicon HD sights were a no go. Super sharp, and did not regulate. Not to pimp Night Fision, but visibility is outstanding.

52009

Thank you. I believe you and I discussed the Night Fision sights on another thread, maybe your training journal, and I'm still leaning pretty heavily towards those. I just wish their new Glow Dome options were available for HK, but so far just seem to be for their Glocks and maybe M&Ps or 320s. HK is such a red headed stepchild for sights.

[CCT125US]

Thank you. I believe you and I discussed the Night Fision sights on another thread, maybe your training journal, and I'm still leaning pretty heavily towards those. I just wish their new Glow Dome options were available for HK, but so far just seem to be for their Glocks and maybe M&Ps or 320s. HK is such a red headed stepchild for sights.

One more outside. Currently doing a compare and contrast between the P30 / USP9c that I'll post up in several days when I'm done. After that I'll do LHO /RHO results.

52010

[Mark D]

Also adding the USPc into the mix. I know it is a beloved HK, but I absolutely could not get along with the grip. It was just too tiny. I couldn’t shoot it well at all compared to the P2000 or P30.



Is the USPc grip smaller in circumference than the P2000? I didn't realize that.

[GJM]

As I reported earlier, I seem to shoot the P2000 substantially better with one hand than the P30. I went back to the range late this afternoon, with an objective of learning more about how I shoot the P30 compared to the P2000. I also brought an HK USP FS, as part of understanding how a difference in grip styles might translate into one hand shooting performance. All the shooting I did for the evaluation was with my support hand only. The P30 and P2000 have V1 lite LEM with Trijicon HD sights, and the USP FS has a match hybrid LEM a trigger with Dawson FO sights.

The first thing I did was shoot a two inch dot at 7 yards, support hand only, with the USP FS, followed by the P30, followed by the P2000. To familiarize myself with each pistol, I shot five rounds at an eight inch circle at 7 yards, and then shot five rounds into a two inch circle. Here is what I got, although subjectively I felt like I had to work harder and shoot slower with the P30 to make my hits.

52019


Next I shot five rounds into the 3x5 at 15 yards with the USP.

52020


Repeated the same with the P30.

52021


Repeated the same with the P2000.

52022


Since all of the shooting I had done so far in the evaluation had been without any time constraint, I decided to shoot five rounds at fifteen yards at an eight inch circle with each of the three pistols as fast as I could make the hits. I videotaped this so I could see my pace and watch how the pistols behaved. My subjective impression was the P2000 was the easiest to shoot, followed by the USP FS. The P30 was significantly harder to shoot quickly, and the pistol felt like it was moving in my hand. This was confirmed by my review of the video.


https://youtu.be/R-Zo5e6h3jE

[OlongJohnson]

Seems like you'd get a similar result two-handed, but the extra support from the support hand would diminish the effect. Do you find that to be the case, or does the two-hand grip lock it equally?


my theory is the P30 grip is more friendly to two hands, where both hands settle into the rounded shape of the P30 grip. With just one hand, when I hold the P30 and compare it to a straight grip HK like the P2000 and USP, I notice the rounded shape of the P30 makes my grip less consistent, and the pistol seems to be swimming.

My hypothesis is it's not just the rounder cross section, but also the hump-back backstrap. Having the exaggerated curve on the backstrap puts the greatest contact pressure right in the center of your hand. An extreme illustration of the concept would be putting a baton through a tennis ball, and then trying to prevent someone from twisting the baton by grasping the tennis ball. You'd do better if it was just the straight baton. The big-in-the-middle shape reduces contact pressure at the top and bottom of your grasp, which is where a lot of your control comes from.

[CCT125US]

I would have to run the numbers over the past 10 years but...
P30 120K+
P2000 20k+
USP9c 25k+

I can shoot the USP9c better LHO/RHO due to the grip shape and texture. The P2000 obviously has a slicker grip, and may cause over gripping to compensate for control.

For me, the P30 does seem to take more work one handed. My preferred sights are on the P30, so that benefit helps to balance things out based on lighting.

[Sig_Fiend]

As I reported earlier, I seem to shoot the P2000 substantially better with one hand than the P30. I went back to the range late this afternoon, with an objective of learning more about how I shoot the P30 compared to the P2000. I also brought an HK USP FS, as part of understanding how a difference in grip styles might translate into one hand shooting performance. All the shooting I did for the evaluation was with my support hand only. The P30 and P2000 have V1 lite LEM with Trijicon HD sights, and the USP FS has a match hybrid LEM a trigger with Dawson FO sights.



I would have to run the numbers over the past 10 years but...
P30 120K+
P2000 20k+
USP9c 25k+

I can shoot the USP9c better LHO/RHO due to the grip shape and texture. The P2000 obviously has a slicker grip, and may cause over gripping to compensate for control.

For me, the P30 does seem to take more work one handed. My preferred sights are on the P30, so that benefit helps to balance things out based on lighting.

I'd be very curious to hear from either of you if there's anything the P2000 does substantially better than the USP9C? I get the ergonomic improvements, improved slide profile, etc. but, is it enough to make the USP Compact obsolete?

[Dagga Boy]

I think much of this is a hand shape and size thing and how we grip a pistol dependent situation. Wayne Dobbs and I went through this several years ago. Essentially, after a bunch of experimenting and shooting the LEM Guns we found that Wayne shoots the P30’s better than the p2000 series guns and I shoot the P2000 series better. So......Wayne owns most of my old P30’s and P30SK’s and I own Wayne’s old P2000’s and 2000SK’s. Wayne and definitely have different size hands and we have very different grips, so it makes sense that we would find different shaped grips more optimal to how we shoot. I think the key to all of this is to go out and work with defined consistent courses of fire and a timer to get “feelings” out of the equation and make decisions based on quantifiable numbers.

[psalms144.1]

Not that you need to hear it from another data point, but, having run the P30 "TLG" LEM and the P2000 "TLG" LEM side by side for about two years during my Glock hatefest, I found I consistently shot the P2000 better on any drill that had time attached. Slow fire at 3x5s, the P30 was maybe a tiny bit more "accurate," but any time I tried to speed things up, the pistol felt "squirmy" in my hands, regardless of what combination of grip panels I used.

Similarly, when I picked up a VP9, it was WAY accurate (much moreso than the Gen4 G19 I was shooting at the time), but I had to hold onto it like it owed me money to keep hold of it when shooting at speed...

[Doc_Glock]

Similarly, when I picked up a VP9, it was WAY accurate (much moreso than the Gen4 G19 I was shooting at the time), but I had to hold onto it like it owed me money to keep hold of it when shooting at speed...

For whatever reason the VP9 is a stupendously easy gun to shoot well both slow and fast. Sorry LEM fans. That potential to drop the striker though... makes a near perfect gun an interesting range toy for me.

[JonInWA]

Thanks guys-for enticing me (in the interests of science, of course...) towards getting a P2000 to see how it compares. What Dagga Boy says makes sense (don't let it go to your head, Darryl)-frame index to each individual hand is the crucial part of the index equation. And if I do go the P2000 route, to minimize potential stumbling blocks (like increased recoil forces/torquing in hand under recoil) I'll probably go the 9mm route for chambering. Which of course provides another incentive for a P2000 acquisition, to fulfull obtaining an HK chambered in 9mm; both my VP40 and P30L are in .40. I'd doubtlesly go for an LEM variant, probably the heavier V2.

And while I personally like the additional permutation/tailoring possibilities of the P30 via the multiple sideplates, the crucial adjustment point is the backstrap selection-which you also have with the P2000 (and as I recall, there are 4 backstrap options with the P2000 compared to the 3 provided with the P30). The sideplates are a nice fine tuning point, but it's the backstrap selection which is key; I'd argue that the sideplate option is nice (actually, very nice) but not particularly necessary per se to effectively run the gun-without multiple tuning options, you would simply have to adjust yourself more to the gun and accordingly build up necessary muscle memory to compensate-much like one does with a Glock, for example.

Another important factor discussed well in this thread seem to be how one's hand(s) naturally conform to the receiver contours to effectively anchor the guns; some seem to work better with the P30, some with the P2000. The P30 works just fine for me-especially when the sideplates are effectively selected for conformance with my grip.

Whether the slap-sided P2000 will work equally well for me is at this point a matteo of undetermined conjecture, but I certainly prefer the larger and more ergonomic magazine release levers of the P30 compared to the miniscule ones on the P2000.

Best, Jon

[GJM]

I told Darryl that he is just trying to make Wayne feel better for giving up all his P2000 pistols.

When I dry fire the P30 and P2000, support hand only, it is abundantly clear that the rounded shape of the P30 makes it much harder to keep the pistol aligned as I manipulate the trigger. If you have a P30 and straight sided HK, try this for yourself. Makes me wonder how much better the VP9 would be with a P2000/HK45C straight grip, but with more texture.

[OlongJohnson]

JonInWA

I'd check out the USPc as well. I think it is HCM who has commented on the relatively greater durability of the USPc vs. the P2000, and it uses the full USP trigger system so you can go true match hybrid.

For some reason, the USPs just work for me. From the 9/40c up to the .45FS.

Had a P30L, played with all the different grip panels, never could get it to be unwrong. Thank you dempanic, for taking it away from me!

[HCM]

JonInWA

I'd check out the USPc as well. I think it is HCM who has commented on the relatively greater durability of the USPc vs. the P2000, and it uses the full USP trigger system so you can go true match hybrid.

For some reason, the USPs just work for me. From the 9/40c up to the .45FS.

Had a P30L, played with all the different grip panels, never could get it to be unwrong. Thank you dempanic, for taking it away from me!

The US PC is durable, I don’t necessarily know if it is more durable than the P 2000 but those in CBP that have US P compacts try to hold onto them because of the improved tracking under recoil with the squareis flat sided grip and the slightly better trigger pull.

[Dagga Boy]

I sort of missed the whole P2000 thing originally because I had one of the first 200 USP Compacts in the country and used them extensively in both 9 and 45 because I used a USP45 as a duty gun and it was very compatible. We had exceptional luck with the USP’s.

[OlongJohnson]

I'd be interested in your thoughts on comparison of a P2000 and USP9c. Have you ever run them side by side on the clock?

[CCT125US]

I'll be posting up some observations and results from a 10 day self challenge over the weekend. It's been fun.

[GJM]

I had to put the larger paddle releases back on the P2000, as I couldn’t reliably get the magazine out at speed with the stock OEM part. My thumb doesn’t reach the left side release, my trigger finger is too long to get the right side release, and to use my middle finger I need to adopt a whole new grip during reloading. With the large release, I can use my trigger finger.

HK just converted a P2000, I got from a PF member, from V2 to V1. They also installed HD sights. Turn around was about a week and $71 including return shipping. Got to love HK CS!

[LOKNLOD]

Got to love HK CS!


Time traveler from 2007: "WTF!?!?!"

[JonInWA]

I had to put the larger paddle releases back on the P2000, as I couldn’t reliably get the magazine out at speed with the stock OEM part. My thumb doesn’t reach the left side release, my trigger finger is too long to get the right side release, and to use my middle finger I need to adopt a whole new grip during reloading. With the large release, I can use my trigger finger.

HK just converted a P2000, I got from a PF member, from V2 to V1. They also installed HD sights. Turn around was about a week and $71 including return shipping. Got to love HK CS!.
George, how does the V1 and V2 on a P2000 compare to the V1 on a P30? As I've discussed on other p-f threads, the low initial triggerpull tension on my P30L V1 was too light, and I'm much happier with my "V1.5" with the HK CS installed medium TRS. Best, Jon

[CCT125US]

HK just converted a P2000, I got from a PF member, from V2 to V1.

Hmm, I just did the same thing, we may be onto something here. Only concearn is sluggish reset.

[GJM]

V2 is heavier than I like, but V1 works well enough for my use as a defensive pistol. I am going to try the GGI reduced reset part to get the reset more like a USP, although I would be happy leaving the reset stock. I am a lot more particular about grip shape!

[spj]

The week spot on the USP series is the firing pin. I broke mine third round out of the holster at the range after running it a couple of years. The back half hit me in the face. We broke around 5 or 6 out of 320. They would break around the firing pin block. Supposedly this weakness was discovered as well with the testing done by CBP and addressed in the P2000, in their earlier trials. I am not aware of anyone breaking one in the HK45.

[JonInWA]

V2 is heavier than I like, but V1 works well enough for my use as a defensive pistol. I am going to try the GGI reduced reset part to get the reset more like a USP, although I would be happy leaving the reset stock. I am a lot more particular about grip shape!

Thanks-I suspect that your trigger tactile sensitivity and/or experience is of a magnitude greater than mine regarding V1 LEM; I needed the increased resistance, as I was never really able to fully synchronize with the "flying through the air" relatively weightless portion of the initial V1 triggerpull; I needed and went to more constant resistance and a more seamless break point via the medium-weight TRS. It's now characteristically more like the DAO on my Beretta 92D, which is much more to my liking-but that's me.

Best, Jon

[GJM]

Thanks-I suspect that your trigger tactile sensitivity and/or experience is of a magnitude greater than mine regarding V1 LEM; I needed the increased resistance, as I was never really able to fully synchronize with the "flying through the air" relatively weightless portion of the initial V1 triggerpull; I needed and went to more constant resistance and a more seamless break point via the medium-weight TRS. It's now characteristically more like the DAO on my Beretta 92D, which is much more to my liking-but that's me.

Best, Jon

The P series LEM has a lot of pre travel, and to shoot quickly I want to get through that pre travel as quickly as possible. Less resistance is better for me, as I am trying to make it more single action than double action.

[JonInWA]

The P series LEM has a lot of pre travel, and to shoot quickly I want to get through that pre travel as quickly as possible. Less resistance is better for me, as I am trying to make it more single action than double action.

And I'm exactly the opposite for a duty pistol-I want it more double action than single action.

Best, Jon

[OlongJohnson]

The week spot on the USP series is the firing pin. I broke mine third round out of the holster at the range after running it a couple of years. The back half hit me in the face. We broke around 5 or 6 out of 320. They would break around the firing pin block. Supposedly this weakness was discovered as well with the testing done by CBP and addressed in the P2000, in their earlier trials. I am not aware of anyone breaking one in the HK45.

Is that experience pre- or post-2005 revisions? The firing pin and firing pin block were changed to eliminate breakage, as I understand it.

[HCM]

The week spot on the USP series is the firing pin. I broke mine third round out of the holster at the range after running it a couple of years. The back half hit me in the face. We broke around 5 or 6 out of 320. They would break around the firing pin block. Supposedly this weakness was discovered as well with the testing done by CBP and addressed in the P2000, in their earlier trials. I am not aware of anyone breaking one in the HK45.

Not exactly.

INS began issuing the USPC .40 to plainclothes LE in 1999. The firing pin issue was identified in 2001, prior to the creation of DHS or CBP.

My USPC was one of a couple we had break. Mine broke and was repaired in 2002 or 2003. None of ours separated from the pistol or hit anyone in the face.

HK redesigned the FP and FP Block, there have been no issues since this upgrade in the early 2000s and the same designed in the P2000.

CBP did not do their own pistol testing until last year’s tests which resulted in the switch from the P2000 .40 to Glock 9mms.

CBP adopted the P2000 as a result of the 2004 DHS Joint handgun testing. Both the USPC and the P2000 passed the 2004 testing in all three DHS issued calibers (9/40/357). ICE had INS issued USPC’s in service until March 2009 and POW USPC’s are still grandfathered in as POWs. CBP does not authorize POWs for duty but I am personally aware that there are still INS issued USPCs in service with CBP/USBP to this day.

Those in CBP with USPC’s hold onto them like Gollum and the ring, mostly due to the superior trigger pull on the USPC LEM, though I find the flatter /squarer grip shape helps the gun track better in strings of fire.

HK may not have upgraded commercial guns until 2005 but the issue was identified and GOV contract guns upgraded well prior to that.

Keep in mind that if you do decide to replace the Firing Pin on an older USPC, you will need to replace all 3 parts: FP, FPB, and FPBS as well as new roll pins.

[spj]

Not exactly.

INS began issuing the USPC .40 to plainclothes LE in 1999. The firing pin issue was identified in 2001, prior to the creation of DHS or CBP.

My USPC was one of a couple we had break. Mine broke and was repaired in 2002 or 2003. None of ours separated from the pistol or hit anyone in the face.

HK redesigned the FP and FP Block, there have been no issues since this upgrade in the early 2000s and the same designed in the P2000.

CBP did not do their own pistol testing until last year’s tests which resulted in the switch from the P2000 .40 to Glock 9mms.

CBP adopted the P2000 as a result of the 2004 DHS Joint handgun testing. Both the USPC and the P2000 passed the 2004 testing in all three DHS issued calibers (9/40/357). ICE had INS issued USPC’s in service until March 2009 and POW USPC’s are still grandfathered in as POWs. CBP does not authorize POWs for duty but I am personally aware that there are still INS issued USPCs in service with CBP/USBP to this day.

Those in CBP with USPC’s hold onto them like Gollum and the ring, mostly due to the superior trigger pull on the USPC LEM, though I find the flatter /squarer grip shape helps the gun track better in strings of fire.

HK may not have upgraded commercial guns until 2005 but the issue was identified and GOV contract guns upgraded well prior to that.

Keep in mind that if you do decide to replace the Firing Pin on an older USPC, you will need to replace all 3 parts: FP, FPB, and FPBS as well as new roll pins.

A most excellent history of the various and sundry federal border police/ customs/ INS and HK history.

[spj]

Is that experience pre- or post-2005 revisions? The firing pin and firing pin block were changed to eliminate breakage, as I understand it.

The guns in question were USP 45 full size and were issued in 1999. The guns were in service until replacement with HK45.

[HALO51]

Picked up another P30L V1 last week, prefer the V1 over "Lite" the V1 in my experience seems shot to shot seems more consistent regarding trigger play. I have several LEM's, will all eventually convert to v4.1. sending the newer HK this week to have v4.1 installed & Heinie Straight 8's. I will say it seems to me the "CA" 2020 LEM is best LEM press to date. Not sure what others have experienced.

[19852+]

Question for HCM or anyone who knows; what was the first year of regular civie production of the USPf ?

[JonInWA]

Picked up another P30L V1 last week, prefer the V1 over "Lite" the V1 in my experience seems shot to shot seems more consistent regarding trigger play. I have several LEM's, will all eventually convert to v4.1. sending the newer HK this week to have v4.1 installed & Heinie Straight 8's. I will say it seems to me the "CA" 2020 LEM is best LEM press to date. Not sure what others have experienced.

What exactly is the "CA" LEM?

Best, Jon

[HALO51]

What exactly is the "CA" LEM?

Best, Jon

CA Date Code on Slide=Build year 2020
BK Receiver

[JonInWA]

CA Date Code on Slide=Build year 2020
BK Receiver

Duh...I feel like an idiot. I thought the "CA" referenced some California specific mandated spring weight set-up.

Best, Jon

[fpnunes]

The P series LEM has a lot of pre travel, and to shoot quickly I want to get through that pre travel as quickly as possible. Less resistance is better for me, as I am trying to make it more single action than double action.

Looks like you put your new one up for sale? Moving away from the LEM trigger system GJM?

[GJM]

Looks like you put your new one up for sale? Moving away from the LEM trigger system GJM?

Nope, but moving to the P2000.

[GJM]

I have a pair of P2000 DA/SA pistols and a half dozen P2000 LEM pistols. I have been doing some comparing, including putting the trigger gauge on them. The DA/SA obviously has a heavier initial pull than the LEM, but the SA and LEM trigger pulls are the same weight, assuming lite LEM. The difference is the LEM trigger has more pre travel than the SA.

In deciding between the two trigger systems, one needs to decide whether a heavier initial trigger pull is good or bad, and how their shooting style meshes with more pre travel for successive shots.

[CCT125US]

In deciding between the two trigger systems, one needs to decide whether a heavier initial trigger pull is good or bad, and how their shooting style meshes with more pre travel for successive shots.

I'm currently running v1 in my primary P2000. I find that heavy LEM makes distance precision taxing. My notes from several years ago state that light LEM (v1) did not seem to reset fast enough for me. Should get some range time in tomorrow and do some speed work. I have been heavily focused on accuracy over the past weeks.

So far, here is the rundown.

Reasons for switching to the P2000.

Compared to P30 v1:
With a Night Fision FS, and Trijicon RS, the accuracy is equal to the P30. Flat sides prevent "swimming" during recoil, provides better tracking freestyle, LHO/RHO. Reduced weight and size.

Compared to USP9c v7:
Slightly longer sight radius, barrel, ambi slide release, and easier WML capability. Reduced weight.

I shot an 89-1x with the P2000 v1 on a B8 at 50 yards. Several points were dropped due to rushing the shot as I was anticipating wind gusts. This is such an accurate combo for me.

[OlongJohnson]

I'd suggest light LEM, and then swap trigger return springs until you find your Goldilocks setup. This is what I've been working on with USP, except Match Hybrid and then TRS spring selection. Pretty happy with Match Hybrid plus heavy TRS so far.

[Sauer Koch]

I've been shooting my P30 V1 for just over a year now, and I really like it. Reading this thread has me curious about the P2000, in regards to the difference in the effects of the grip on shooting performance.
I've held one, but never fired one.

[SecondsCount]

I've been shooting my P30 V1 for just over a year now, and I really like it. Reading this thread has me curious about the P2000, in regards to the difference in the effects of the grip on shooting performance.
I've held one, but never fired one.

For me, the P30 performs better than the P2K and I find it more comfortable to shoot. It could be that I shot 1911's for years as the contours are similar to the P30.

The P2K is more similar to a Glock with the flat sides.

[Mark D]

With a Night Fision FS, and Trijicon RS

I shot an 89-1x with the P2000 v1 on a B8 at 50 yards.

Impressive accuracy! What ammo, if you don't mind me asking?

And are you using the Trijicon Bright and Tough in the rear?

[Sauer Koch]

For me, the P30 performs better than the P2K and I find it more comfortable to shoot. It could be that I shot 1911's for years as the contours are similar to the P30.

The P2K is more similar to a Glock with the flat sides.

Interesting; in my mind, I see the P2000 grip being more similar to a 1911, than the P30. But, this stuff is so subjective, and there really is no right or wrong. I have shot a USPc 9, and I shot it just fine, but it had more felt recoil; nothing terrible, or that I could not work with, but it didn't wow me to the point where I'd want to buy one. The one that did impress me, and was a big part of the motivation to buy an HK in the first place was an HK45 FS. Although it was DA, it was a nice gun, and if I ever bought another 45, this would be my choice. **unless I shot a USP 45 and it was nicer** ?

[OlongJohnson]

The differences between the HK45 FS and USP 45 FS are basically sights, grip, control levers, Pic vs. USP light rail and mag capacity. The trigger/action parts that matter on the inside are all the same part numbers, so unlike the P30, any tuning you can do to a USP can also be done to the HK45 FS.

The only factor that can't be reasonably worked around is the grip. If you're like most people, one or the other will work better for you. I'm in the camp where a long, flatter oval isn't as good as slab sides.

[P30]

Interesting; in my mind, I see the P2000 grip being more similar to a 1911, than the P30. But, this stuff is so subjective, and there really is no right or wrong.
I agree, it's very subjective. It depends on the size and shape of the hand and the way you hold the grip. I like my SFP9 (≈ VP9) very much except the upper back of its grip. I can't press strongly against it with my hand, so I'm not amused by its excessive muzzle flip in my hands. But the trigger, I really like the SFP trigger. The grip of the P30 fits me much better. All in all I prefer the P30. Favorite variant: V4 CH (http://montrala.blogspot.com/2013/06/hk-p30p30l-short-travel-lem-cda-trigger.html) = LEM with medium TRS + shortened pre-travel.

[SecondsCount]

Interesting; in my mind, I see the P2000 grip being more similar to a 1911, than the P30. But, this stuff is so subjective, and there really is no right or wrong....

I agree, and anyone telling you otherwise is just immature.

Years ago I shot a USP and didn't like it at all. Never even gave the P30 a chance until ToddG started playing with one and YVK brought his to the range. Two weeks later I had one and eventually migrated to it. There are some 1911's still in the safe but I wanted the higher capacity so I could shoot what I carry in 3-gun.

[Sig_Fiend]

Since the thread is about P30 LEM triggers, figured I should extend an offer. If anyone ever happens to be in or around the Austin / central Texas area, feel free to hit me up and I'm more than happy to let you try mine.

Currently, my P30 has the 4.1ch setup as well as a GGI short reset kit. I also have an HK45 + GGI short reset kit.

[GJM]

Since the thread is about P30 LEM triggers, figured I should extend an offer. If anyone ever happens to be in or around the Austin / central Texas area, feel free to hit me up and I'm more than happy to let you try mine.

Currently, my P30 has the 4.1ch setup as well as a GGI short reset kit. I also have an HK45 + GGI short reset kit.

How do you like 4.1 with the GGI kit?

As to P30 vs P2000, given how different the grips are, it should come as no surprise that people have very different opinions. No different than a standard Beretta 92 vs a Vertec grip.

[CCT125US]

Impressive accuracy! What ammo, if you don't mind me asking?

And are you using the Trijicon Bright and Tough in the rear?

Hand loads using RMR 124gr JHP. Still doing load development.

Correct on the Trijicon Bright and Tough rear. The Trijicon front sight is not as precise as I like, hence the switch to the NF Perfect Dot. The P30 / P2000 / SK share front dovetail dimensions, but the P30 has a different rear. I am hoping NF adds to the HK lineup.

[1slow]

The differences between the HK45 FS and USP 45 FS are basically sights, grip, control levers, Pic vs. USP light rail and mag capacity. The trigger/action parts that matter on the inside are all the same part numbers, so unlike the P30, any tuning you can do to a USP can also be done to the HK45 FS.

The only factor that can't be reasonably worked around is the grip. If you're like most people, one or the other will work better for you. I'm in the camp where a long, flatter oval isn't as good as slab sides.

I do not think you can do a Match/LEM hybrid on the HK45, but you can do a Match/LEM hybrid on the full size USP.

I wish HK would do pictinny rail on USP.

The boxy HK USP 45 fits my hands well and I get a more secure grip than on the rounded HK45. YMMV.

[OlongJohnson]

HK45 uses the same action parts as USP. LEM kit is the same. Match hybrid is just spring selection.

https://hkparts.net/product/hk-universal-lem-kit-complete-hk45-usp-uspc-p316.htm

[Sig_Fiend]

How do you like 4.1 with the GGI kit?

As to P30 vs P2000, given how different the grips are, it should come as no surprise that people have very different opinions. No different than a standard Beretta 92 vs a Vertec grip.

I'll be honest, I didn't measure the difference before the TLG LEM setup, then 4.1, then GGI so it's difficult to talk in specifics. With all 3 combined, the reset is the shortest it has ever been, so I definitely like that.

I did the DA/SA thing years ago with SIGs, some HKs, etc. So it's nothing new for me. That said, I've been shooting Glocks significantly over the past 10yrs. Getting used to the longer reset in an LEM or DA/SA SIG has always been an issue for me. This combined setup has made it pretty much a non-issue at this point.

[thward89]

I have found that the benefits from the V4.1 and GGI reduced reset kit are very minimal. If I were to pick up another P30 LEM today, I would only replace the trigger spring to the V4 spring and the FPBS spring to a reduced spring. I feel that those two springs pay more dividends than the 4.1 or GGI kits. The combination of the 4.1 and GGI reduced reset feel great, but when looking at stats without the two, there was no appreciable payoff.

[GJM]

I just got a pair of P2000 pistols back today from installation of the GGI reduced reset kit. The reduction in reset is noticeable dry firing — will have to see what I observe at the range.

[MGW]

I agree, and anyone telling you otherwise is just immature.

Years ago I shot a USP and didn't like it at all. Never even gave the P30 a chance until ToddG started playing with one and YVK brought his to the range. Two weeks later I had one and eventually migrated to it. There are some 1911's still in the safe but I wanted the higher capacity so I could shoot what I carry in 3-gun.

I never would have thought of 1911’s and P30’s getting along. I remember hearing Paul Sharp say somewhere that he likes both too.

[SecondsCount]

I never would have thought of 1911’s and P30’s getting along. I remember hearing Paul Sharp say somewhere that he likes both too.
They are different in a lot of ways but both point almost the same for me.

[OlongJohnson]

I never would have thought of 1911’s and P30’s getting along. I remember hearing Paul Sharp say somewhere that he likes both too.

For me, the HK45 grip is very similar to a 1911 grip. I have similar reservations about them both, for my hands.

[GJM]

I got to shoot a P2000 with the GGI reduced reset kit this afternoon. I do believe it is an improvement over a LEM trigger without the part, and it makes a P series trigger feel more like a USP. That said, it is still much easier to shoot a stock Gen 5 Glock trigger for anything speed focused.

[CCT125US]

I got to shoot a P2000 with the GGI reduced reset kit this afternoon. I do believe it is an improvement over a LEM trigger without the part, and it makes a P series trigger feel more like a USP. That said, it is still much easier to shoot a stock Gen 5 Glock trigger for anything speed focused.

Not really worth the squeeze if I'm good with assessment speed splits?

[GJM]

Not really worth the squeeze if I'm good with assessment speed splits?

While I don’t think $400, or whatever GGI charges, makes sense for their trigger job, for $85 I think the kit is worthwhile for a dedicated HK shooter, as it makes a P series trigger more like a USP. I see shooting speed and assessment as being separate — the faster and easier you can shoot accurate shots, the more time you have to assess.

[SecondsCount]

I got to shoot a P2000 with the GGI reduced reset kit this afternoon. I do believe it is an improvement over a LEM trigger without the part, and it makes a P series trigger feel more like a USP. That said, it is still much easier to shoot a stock Gen 5 Glock trigger for anything speed focused.

What is the difference in trigger pull weight between the modified P2000 and the Gen 5 Glock that you are comparing?

[GJM]

What is the difference in trigger pull weight between the modified P2000 and the Gen 5 Glock that you are comparing?

Pretty close in weight although the Glock trigger is obviously shorter.

[David S.]

Alternatively, the Robert Burke offers his H&K trigger job for $245. (https://www.thesigarmorer.com/product/hk-cla/#sights)

It's likely not as good as Lone Wolf or GGI, but I don't know. I've heard he does good work.

I understand he generally has pretty quick turn around times.

[Sig_Fiend]

Figured I should speak a bit more objectively about the GGI short reset kit. Previously, with the TLG LEM, I was getting trigger freeze (short stroking) even trying to run at ~.3s splits. Sometimes even at a little slower splits than that, but not quite .5s splits, because that's just easy. For reference, in the past, I've been able to run Glocks (factory "3.5"/minus connector, 6# return spring) down to .16-.17 splits inside 5-7yds. That's while still maintaining A zone hits on an IPSC classic target or maybe just a few in the "C" zone (-1) on an IDPA target. I've lost some of that speed in the past year though.

Although I need to get to the range more, in dry fire, I get the distinct feeling that with the GGI kit I'm no longer going to have trigger freeze issues. I'm guessing running down to .2-.25 splits should be no issue for me now. Now, both the 4.1ch and GGI kits each are listed as reducing the reset by 1/3. Although I haven't measured, I doubt they both combine to reduce the reset by 2/3. I kind of feel like the total reduction with both combined is probably ~30-40% max, but that's just a guess.

[McNamara]

I did the conversion, but kept the de cocker. So its LEM, but also I can Decock and fire the first shot DA if I want. The parts change was about $200 I think. It’s been a few years. You can save a little buy keeping the same decocker.

As far as warranty goes, you could always change it back.

I know I brought it up a while ago, but David let me try his LEM pistols and I really liked the trigger system. I got busy building my SBR in the meantime, but at long last I ordered the parts to convert mine from V3 to V1. Fortunately the parts only came to $125, not counting S&H and tax. I did the conversion tonight - not too difficult! I'll be testing it at the range this weekend, or sooner if I can find an excuse to get off work early.

[Sauer Koch]

I know I brought it up a while ago, but David let me try his LEM pistols and I really liked the trigger system. I got busy building my SBR in the meantime, but at long last I ordered the parts to convert mine from V3 to V1. Fortunately the parts only came to $125, not counting S&H and tax. I did the conversion tonight - not too difficult! I'll be testing it at the range this weekend, or sooner if I can find an excuse to get off work early.

How'd it go?