RFI: Retiring In Tennessee? (No State Tax In 2021)

[RJ]

Somehow this week I was musing on future locations for retirement, when I leave the work force for good in 1-2 years.

There are currently 7 states with no State tax, including Florida, where I live. It seems in 2021 that list will add Tennessee:

https://www.fool.com/taxes/2018/06/05/by-2021-these-8-states-will-have-no-income-tax.aspx

We toured the country for a couple years sabbatical between my first career, and my current shorter term job. We ended up settling on the West Coast of Florida, chiefly because we could not, really, find anywhere better. It’s not called the Gunshine State for no reason. 0 State income tax is a huge financial break. Major medical facilities and an acceptable climate are a big plus.

But of course we have year round sweltering humidity, and the temperatures range from “kinda warm” nine months of the year, to levels in June July and August that would melt Tolkien’s The One Ring.


One scenario we are kicking around is keeping a base of operations (TBD; condo, more likely house or cottage) in FL and invest in a ‘Summer’ home Somewhere Else.

Or; the other way around: Become a resident elsewhere and spend “Winter” in Florida.

Hence: Tennessee?

I admit I’ve not traveled to the Volunteer State, except briefly in and through over the years. My impressions are fleeting. An enjoyable weekend bar hopping in Nashville. Hickok45 videos. Beretta moving production there (I think?).

So: any thoughts of Tennessee as a residence? Places to avoid? Places to consider?

We like (ok, my wife likes) urban settings. We eat out (a lot). We’d need to generally have access to good medical care. We would like either to be near water, or the mountains. Ideally with a climate that is nether extremely cold or extremely hot: but without the damnable humidity we get here in FL.

Would appreciate your thoughts.

Rich

[RoyGBiv]

Please buy this house before I do.... It's a bit far for groceries, otherwise, want.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/129-Wren-Ct-Copperhill-TN-37317/80385874_zpid/

[RJ]

Please buy this house before I do.... It's a bit far for groceries, otherwise, want.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/129-Wren-Ct-Copperhill-TN-37317/80385874_zpid/

Thanks. That area is a bit remote lol. I appreciate the location though.

I like the house. Might be above our price point for a two-home scenario. But the three car garage - nice. I'll pass it along to The Boss.

Actually I just realized I am in Dahlonaga GA in April 2020 for a class, and looking at the map it is not a million miles from Copper Hill. I didn't realize that was so close to the Cherokee National Forest, along the southern side of I75 between Chatanooga and Knoxville, until looking at the map. I've been up and down I-75 in TN many times, just didn't connect the dots. Maybe I can talk Mrs. Rich about coming along for the class that weekend and then spending a few days in TN afterwards, looking around the area, then return to Tampa by way of I-75. I also found that Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge are not too far, either. Which is someplace we'd thought about visiting, as we both quite like country music (hence enjoyable weekend in Nashville.)

[41magfan]

Check around the mountains and foothills in eastern TN near Knoxville.

[Tennessee Jed]

I, personally, love living in TN. I might not have been born here, but I got here as fast as I could.

I would be careful about moving here to avoid hot muggy summers, though. I'm sure it's not as rough as it is in FL, but today in Nashville, for example, we've got a high of 96 degrees, dew points in the low 70's, and a heat index of 104. August is usually that way here, but summers here can be pretty warm, and it will stay pretty warm from June through September. Once October gets here, things start cooling off a bit.

Nashville has a lot to see and do, no doubt about it. There's always a show somewhere, and all types of music, from classical, to indie rock, country, bluegrass, etc.

There are a number of other things to see and do, as well. Professional football is here, minor league baseball, professional hockey, etc. A fair number of interesting state parks are close by (many with interesting waterfalls). Generally, I've found Nashvillians to be friendly.

Although we don't have state income taxes, we do have high sales tax (I think it's around 9.25%). Also, the housing market is a bit out of whack. There's been a lot of people moving here recently, which has driven up house prices, and rush hour traffic can also be difficult.

All things considered, I would never leave this state.

[farscott]

We live in northern Alabama, and my wife uses the Vanderbilt University medical system in Nashville. It is a bit over 75 miles one way, but the medical care has been superb. Nashville also offers, as mentioned above, great food, great music, and decent access to Atlanta, Knoxville, and Louisville.

[hufnagel]

I've been thinking TN as well, since I can get a metric f*** ton of land for cheap.

[miller_man]

Been loving living in TN since I moved here in '08.

I started the first several years in Chattanooga - one cool little city, if it wasn't for family and such I would have been content to never leave that town. Nashville is really cool too but the city is growing super fast and will continue to have some growing pains for the near future. But there is a TON to do and things going on, all the time.

Plus it is one gun friendly state - lots and lots people here have and shoot guns, even some somewhat liberal folks. Of course, here in Nashville there are tons of California, Chicago and New York transplants who would love to change that.

But, the summers are pretty warm and muggy and long. It gets warm about late May and stays that way until about late September, even mid October sometimes. Fall and spring are always too short - usually feels like a good 3-5 weeks of decent weather then right into cold or hot.

[ranger]

Rich, suggest you look at total taxation - not just state income tax - as you look at locations. Property taxes, gas taxes, and other taxes have impacts too. I think TN is a fine choice. We may stay in northern Georgia as the total taxation is actually pretty good in GA. We have talked about staying where we are in NW GA or retiring in northern AL, northern MS, or TN.

Maybe we can meet when you are in Dahlonega.

[Drang]

At our last meeting with our financial advisor he asked us what state we were retiring to -- the idea of retiring in WA was never considered -- and immediately called up TN. (My folks live in Crossville, halfway between Nash' and Knox'.)

Our tax dollars will go about half again as far in the Volunteer State.

For years my parents wintered in FL, eventually they decided it wasn't worth it, having grown up in MI, TN winters are a joke. (TN drivers dealing with snow are a bigger concern than the snow itself, and there are so many retirees from the Great Lakes region that the drivers aren't really a concern...)

[Jim Watson]

I am in Florence Alabama, way north, only 18 miles from Tennessee line.
I noticed that it was hotter here lately than in St Leo and Boca Raton Florida, where I have friends.

I don't pay state income tax on government agency retirement benefits.

I have a friend in Chattanooga (Red Bank, actually) but it has been a long time since I was there and don't know how it has progressed.

[Josh Runkle]

Doesn’t Tennessee have a tax on ammo?


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[Drang]

One drawback to TN is that, if dining out while armed, one cannot enjoy an adult libation. :(

[SoCalDep]

As we plan our escape from CA, with an early 21 or so year retirement in the next few years, TN is high on our list. I’m loving this thread, and plan to show it to my wife tomorrow. I’ll still have to work, so that will be a big factor, but I’d rather work happy than hope I’m still alive at the end dealing with the insanity that is CA for the next 14-15 years.

[rob_s]

Florida has no state income tax because we can make up the difference in taxing the tourists. How is Tennessee going to make up the difference. One of the previous posters mentioned 9+% sales tax?

[jlw]

I hear that Perry County, TN, has an excellent Sheriff who is a well bred man.

[Hambo]

We like (ok, my wife likes) urban settings. We eat out (a lot). We’d need to generally have access to good medical care. We would like either to be near water, or the mountains. Ideally with a climate that is nether extremely cold or extremely hot: but without the damnable humidity we get here in FL.

My wife, a nurse, says the best medical care in FL is a plane ticket to somewhere else. Your description sounds like Nashville area to me.

[ssb]

Doesn’t Tennessee have a tax on ammo?


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It was repealed this year, but it was a ten cent excise tax per package (i.e. a case of 20 boxes packaged in a cardboard box was still ten cents, but if you bought 20 individual boxes, you'd be paying 20 individual excise taxes). There's still a 9.25% sales tax which makes online ammo orders pretty attractive.

RJ and SoCalDep

Humidity is a fact of life in Tennessee. East TN is slightly less humid. Summers can generally be described as "hotter than two Julys wrapped in an August" everywhere except the actual mountains.

Given your description, I'd recommend the Knoxville area. You're close enough to the mountains but you won't be dealing with mountain problems, you'll have good medical care available (UT system), the Tennessee river runs through the area, there are plenty of smaller rivers in the general area, winters are fairly mild but you can expect a light snow or two a year. It'll still be hot, but less so than Chattanooga or Nashville. Nightlife is decent, and I actually prefer theirs to Nashville's. I'd consider Blount (Maryville), Loudon, or Sevier counties if you wanted to have your toe in Knoxville's water but not pay Knoxville taxes.

The Chattanooga area would be my second choice, and everything I said about Knoxville applies to it with the exception of the winters (tend to be warmer, less likely to snow). I would personally look at the counties to its north/east or west -- like Knoxville, you'd get to enjoy Chattanooga without necessarily dealing with Chattanooga problems.

Chattanooga and Knoxville both have a growing violent crime problem, but it's not Memphis or Nashville. Drugs along the I-75 corridor fuel a lot of that.

Both have regional feeder airports, but you'll be connecting to Atlanta or Nashville out of each one. Nashville and Memphis are the primary airports in the state should you like to travel/fly.

Murfreesboro is growing pretty rapidly, and while I like it out there, it doesn't fit any of your climate criteria (hot as hell, humid as hell) and you'll be dealing with some of the growth problems (in particular the rapid growth in crime). It does have one of the better gun stores in the state, however (Outpost Armory). You'd be about 45 minutes from Nashville provided you don't travel into the city between 7a and 9:30a, and don't try to leave the city between 4p and 6:30p. However, there's not a lot that you can't get in Murfreesboro anymore so your actual need to travel into Nashville would probably be pretty low.

Nashville, I'm sure you can figure out. Know that it's gotten very expensive, however, and your retirement dollars may not take you as far in Davidson County. Great food though and checks your medical care box. The river does run through it, but when I lived out there, river life wasn't really a thing there like it is in East TN. May have just been the area I was in, who knows.

Knox (Knoxville), Davidson (Nashville), Hamilton (Chattanooga), and Rutherford (Murfreesboro) counties will all tax you fairly heavily on property taxes relative to the rest of the state. Their governments also trend fairly liberal if you care about such things.

Bluntly, there is nothing in Memphis or the rest of West TN worth retiring to. It's "home" to me, but I'm glad I moved away. Visit for the barbecue sometime.

I've lived in all three regions of the state, and I have a strong preference for East TN.

[ssb]

As we plan our escape from CA, with an early 21 or so year retirement in the next few years, TN is high on our list. I’m loving this thread, and plan to show it to my wife tomorrow. I’ll still have to work, so that will be a big factor, but I’d rather work happy than hope I’m still alive at the end dealing with the insanity that is CA for the next 14-15 years.

Be aware that LE pay is probably nothing like you're used to for most places in Tennessee should that be your career choice if you move. The state agencies (THP, TBI) do pay reasonably well.
Some of the larger departments do pay better, but you'll start to deal with some of the "issues" that affect California LEOs with the larger city departments. I can tell you that small rural police departments here don't pay well at all -- I know of one agency around here who starts at $12/hour. Cost of living is, however, very cheap overall in Tennessee.

[HeavyDuty]

Watching with interest - my best friend and I have been looking at the Knoxville area for a vacation cabin. She’s in Tampa, and loves the mountains - she has vacationed in the Gatlinburg area for years.

[blues]

One drawback to TN is that, if dining out while armed, one cannot enjoy an adult libation. :(

Same here in NC. It's a small price to pay for the freedom we (still) otherwise enjoy...especially in the western part of the state.

[RJ]

Florida has no state income tax because we can make up the difference in taxing the tourists. How is Tennessee going to make up the difference. One of the previous posters mentioned 9+% sales tax?

If I saw correctly TN combined State and Local sales tax is 9.26%? Perhaps a local can confirm?

By comparison I’m in Hillsborough County (Tampa), which I believe is the highest tax In FL, at 7.0% state plus 1.5% local for a total sales tax of 8.5%.


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[RJ]

Thanks all. Appreciate the info - and the PMs. Much obliged.

Talked to The Boss. She gave the nod to an exploratory trip to Eastern TN, Knoxville to Johnson City, either this fall, or possibly extended on to my Rangemaster class in Dahlonaga GA next April.

Thanks all!


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[RoyGBiv]

[TL-DR.... Zero state income tax is (usually) a non-factor if you are retired. What matters is 1. Does the state tax retirement income (SS, 401k, etc) and 2. What is the property tax rate?]

Here in TX, we have no state income tax. The coffers are filled via property and sales taxes.
Sales tax is 6.25% (state) plus local that ranges from small to (max) 2%. Not great, but not terrible.

It's property tax that kills you here. In my AO, total property tax is above 2.25%. Average for Tarrant county (Fort Worth area) is 2.32%. A nice house in a decent neighborhood can range from $300,000 and up. That's almost $7,000 (and up) in property taxes you have to pay every year (less some exemptions). I don't know how retired people afford to live here.

We considered moving to CO a few years ago for Wifes work. While CO had a 4.6% income tax (going up soon), property tax is substantially lower, only about $2,000 on a 300k home in the Denver burbs. Even if you paid 50% more for the same house in Denver, you're still only at about 3K/year in property tax.

Tennessee does not tax retirement income and TN currently has a reasonable 0.75% property tax rate. Will that rate grow?

[JclInAtx]

Very interested in this thread. With Austin 'progressing' as rapidly as it is we are thinking of relocating after my daughter graduates. Plus property taxes have about doubled in 12 years. Would be even more but we contest the appraisal every year.

Had a coworker move to Knoxville and loved it, but that was 15 years ago or more.

We are thinking more of northern Georgia, Jasper, Dahlonega, Elijay area but perhaps Knoxville area too.
My understanding is Georgia doesn't tax social security, and the first $65000 after you are 65 years old.

We spent spring break traveling around the area, going into Gatlinburg and up around Asheville. Hadn't been to the smokies since the early 80s and had forgotten how beautiful it is. Gatlinburg itself is quite the tourist trap though.

[blues]

You definitely have to weigh all costs when figuring out what the net to you will be.

I'm fortunate here in western NC because my pension is not subject to state taxation, (fewer and fewer folks will meet that criteria, however), and the low property taxes and cost of insurance (etc) are extremely reasonable and affordable. Add to that the natural beauty of the area, (surrounded by national and state forest), low population density and nearby amenities in town (and further out) makes it pretty much the place I plan to stay in barring significant unanticipated changes.

[Crow Hunter]

Lifetime TN resident here. I have spent most of the time in West TN although I did spend 7 years in Clarksville. (Not Military).

TN Sales tax is actually two part. There is a state tax and then a local tax. The base state portion is 7%, then the local adds too it. My local is 2.75% so I pay 9.75% sales tax.

In the tourist areas around Pigeon Forge it is actually higher, somewhere around 11% I think.

There is also a State Income tax called the Hall Income tax that is paid on dividends over $2,500/year on a married couple. But that is going away in 2021 and it isn't paid on bank CD interest or US Gov bond interest. It isn't really that big of a deal for most and there is a larger exclusion if you are over a certain age.

There are 3 COMPLETELY different cultural/geographical regions in TN.

West - Hilly to flat/swampy as you go from East to West, much poorer than Middle TN, less cultural activities, less of pretty much everything, much better for farming, waste land is very cheap, farmland not so much, the farther West and North you go the deeper into earthquake territory you get, the ground has lots of clay the further east you go, some of the most valuable and productive clay mines in the world are in West TN (All professional baseball fields use clay from a specific location in West TN), excellent hospitals in Memphis, great barbecue, not much else. :)

Middle - Hilly and lots of rocks, almost a basin with a ridge of hills in the Eastern and Western portion, not as good for farming as the West, LOTS of cultural activities, much more "cosmopolitan" with excellent medical care, lots of nice museums, lots of festivals, much more to "do", the further West you are the less the population, Waynesboro/Perry county/Stewart County are very low population with lots of forest land most owned by logging companies, the Eastern side is much more populated, my wife LOVED living in Middle TN but my family and property is in West TN and she loves being away from people MORE than she liked Middle TN. :)

East - Hills are even bigger and get bigger the further East you go, even more rocks. As you go passed Cookeville you will go up onto the Cumberland Plateau (which is slightly cooler), this geography/culture is what people think of when they think of "Tennessee", not as "diverse" outside of the cities, more to do both culturally and outdoors than West TN, but significantly less than Middle TN, jobs are much harder to find than in West/Middle, land is relatively cheap but due to the ground it is often hard to find areas that will percolate correctly to put down a septic so make sure you get a perc test done BEFORE buying a piece of property. This can be a problem in Middle TN as well. Not really a problem in West TN.

Personally I much prefer East TN (we spent a month+ a year and we almost moved there permanently when I was in middle school) to Middle TN and prefer Middle TN to West TN but I have a lot of family/property in Carroll County and 200 years of history so I am probably going to retire there.

If you want to know about the Huntingdon, Dyersburg, Clarksville, Henderson TN area you can PM me and I can help you out. I have lived in those areas enough to talk intelligently about them.

I also went to college in Memphis and lived there for 5 years and have an aunt that still lives there and I can tell you about that but you would be INSANE to intentionally move there.;)

Property taxes aren't really that bad.

I own two houses and 110'ish acres of land and I think I pay around $2,500'ish/year in property taxes. TN has a property tax abatement for land used in farming/growing trees called Greenbelt, that greatly reduces property taxes on vacant/farmland. I would MUCH rather pay higher sales taxes than income taxes. My wife's family is from Mississippi and they have a income tax and a sales tax and my overall tax burden is significantly smaller because we don't spend that much.

Sorry for the rambling, people keep interrupting me with work questions for some reason. :)

[ranger]

Very interested in this thread. With Austin 'progressing' as rapidly as it is we are thinking of relocating after my daughter graduates. Plus property taxes have about doubled in 12 years. Would be even more but we contest the appraisal every year.

Had a coworker move to Knoxville and loved it, but that was 15 years ago or more.

We are thinking more of northern Georgia, Jasper, Dahlonega, Elijay area but perhaps Knoxville area too.
My understanding is Georgia doesn't tax social security, and the first $65000 after you are 65 years old.

We spent spring break traveling around the area, going into Gatlinburg and up around Asheville. Hadn't been to the smokies since the early 80s and had forgotten how beautiful it is. Gatlinburg itself is quite the tourist trap though.

Hey - I am in that NW GA area. I shoot at a private range between Jasper and Elijay. Yes, GA has some incentives reference taxing pensions, etc. plus some other tax breaks at 62 I think. In that NW GA area you are still close enough to Atlanta if you need something only a Big Cityish. There are some very good hospitals in NW GA. I see little reason to go back to Atlanta after I retire.

[RJ]

Maybe we can meet when you are in Dahlonega.

Is that near that um Lake you mentioned previously in one one my RV thread? Schedule permitting I’d guess we would be driving past that area en route...Will keep in touch if so.


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[ranger]

I am 45 minutes from anywhere and everywhere in NW GA from my secret hideout in Cherokee County GA - except work which is 1hr+.

[BJXDS]

We have been looking in East TN. We visited a friend in the Dandridge area. The 81 and 40 area to Knoxville seemed very busy, and the entire Gatlinburg Pigeon Forge Sevierville to Knoxville area was a cluster F. Once you get the interstate it seemed you either had to go around a mountain or lake.

The area was beautiful and great motorcycle riding but didn’t really offer much for me to live there. There were some nice homes on the lake but TVA controls water levels and can drop 50 feet. TVA responsibility if for flood control so that not ideal for me as a possible water front home, 3 months of usable dock just doesn’t cut it.

We didn’t get to look at other nearby towns but were told there is not much and they are poor.

I would think there must be some nice areas north East/west of Knoxville?? What I am looking for may not exist; a rural or suburban neighborhood ideally 30 min or so from grocery stores, home improvement stores and good medical. A lake or River about the same distance would be a bonus.

RJ are you still looking in TN?

[TC215]

I would think there must be some nice areas north East/west of Knoxville?? What I am looking for may not exist; a rural or suburban neighborhood ideally 30 min or so from grocery stores, home improvement stores and good medical. A lake or River about the same distance would be a bonus.

Keep going east of Knoxville. The Morristown or Tri-cities area.

[ranger]

Very interested in this thread. With Austin 'progressing' as rapidly as it is we are thinking of relocating after my daughter graduates. Plus property taxes have about doubled in 12 years. Would be even more but we contest the appraisal every year.

Had a coworker move to Knoxville and loved it, but that was 15 years ago or more.

We are thinking more of northern Georgia, Jasper, Dahlonega, Elijay area but perhaps Knoxville area too.
My understanding is Georgia doesn't tax social security, and the first $65000 after you are 65 years old.

We spent spring break traveling around the area, going into Gatlinburg and up around Asheville. Hadn't been to the smokies since the early 80s and had forgotten how beautiful it is. Gatlinburg itself is quite the tourist trap though.

I am near that area in northern GA if you have any questions.

[Doug]

When I retire, I have always wanted a place where I could go out my back door and shoot on my own property/range.

Are there area/places like that in Tenn?


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[Dan]

For me TN begins at the NC-VA border and ends just slightly west of Knoxville (see State of Franklin). I was raised in Johnson City and made my home about 40 miles northeast of there where the weather is much milder and water is plentiful. Investment/retirement taxes notwithstanding you can just assume paying sales tax of 10% on most everything but as mentioned in a previous post there is no income tax. Further, if you live on this end of the state you can easily shop in VA or NC where the sales tax is much less. The eastern side of TN is politically conservative, it becomes less so as you move toward the other end of the state. Employment in this end of the state can be tough, be that as it may I am an engineer and have managed to make a pretty good living. There seems to be a lot of folks who retire from FL/NY to western NC and they have been spilling over into east TN for a while. I probably would not post this anywhere else but PF folks are the kind of people I would welcome into this area.

Dan

[Dan]

To answer Doug's question. Given the mountainous terrain of East TN many folks have the ability to shoot on their own property and there are several state and private shooting ranges in most counties.

[Robert Mitchum]

Retired to Middle Tenn. 14 years ago .. great medical .. low crime .. gun friendly.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugTOy8fG4Uk

[RJ]

We have been looking in East TN. We visited a friend in the Dandridge area. The 81 and 40 area to Knoxville seemed very busy, and the entire Gatlinburg Pigeon Forge Sevierville to Knoxville area was a cluster F. Once you get the interstate it seemed you either had to go around a mountain or lake.

The area was beautiful and great motorcycle riding but didn’t really offer much for me to live there. There were some nice homes on the lake but TVA controls water levels and can drop 50 feet. TVA responsibility if for flood control so that not ideal for me as a possible water front home, 3 months of usable dock just doesn’t cut it.

We didn’t get to look at other nearby towns but were told there is not much and they are poor.

I would think there must be some nice areas north East/west of Knoxville?? What I am looking for may not exist; a rural or suburban neighborhood ideally 30 min or so from grocery stores, home improvement stores and good medical. A lake or River about the same distance would be a bonus.

RJ are you still looking in TN?

Not currently.

I found out Tom offered a class in Ruskin FL, and he was nice enough to let me transfer to there instead of Dahlonaga. We did spent a few days recently in Blowing Rock NC but didn’t get to drive into TN as we were sightseeing locally.

Long term we’re still kicking around options, but most likely will remain here on the West Coast of FL for the time being.