Apparently decock levers are impractical

[HCountyGuy]

This post in a Sig-centric group was...interesting

41283

Guy goes on to defend his stupid decision by explaining how the firing pin block keeps the gun from firing when he chooses to decock by pulling the trigger and lowering the hammer with his thumb.

Sometimes other gun owners and their stupidity perplexes me to no end.

[psalms144.1]

Just plain fuck me to tears...

[TheNewbie]

Lol ???? Is this for real?

[David S.]

:facepalm!!:

[MGW]

I see what you're talking about now. There's no way the pistol has 10,000 rounds through it :rolleyes:

Seriously though, mechanical aptitude does not mean you know what you're doing. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[ralph]

The level of stupidity here is such that I don't know what to say..Maybe this mental miget will rethink this after his next AD, while thumbing the hammer down..

[andre3k]

Facebook. Pretty much explains it.

[Yung]

Would this be on the same level as pinning the grip safety on a 1911?

[OlongJohnson]

Trolling with a DAK?

[Bigghoss]

Some guy over on M4carbine.net was talking about how he would find Beretta 92D's and convert them to DA/SA so he wouldn't have to bother with the safety levers. And nobody said anything.

[Duke]

Would this be on the same level as pinning the grip safety on a 1911?

Pinned grip safety typically happened on 1911 game guns from days gone by. Not totally illogical considering the era and all “game gun” being the kicker



Totally disabling the factor decock lever is dumb as dumb though.


Back in the day sig p220/226 series guns were allegedly not drop safe if the hammer was lowered by trigger pull. Not sure if that’s still the case

[Bigghoss]

Would this be on the same level as pinning the grip safety on a 1911?

I wouldn't say so. 1911 still has a thumb safety. It would be like lowering the hammer on the loaded chamber of a 1911. I knew a guy that put a hole in his kitchen floor doing that.

[Robinson]

Would this be on the same level as pinning the grip safety on a 1911?

In my opinion, no it is not. This is worse. An argument can be made that the grip safety on a 1911 is redundant and the pistol can be operated in a perfectly safe manner with it pinned just by observing the Four Rules. Mine are not pinned however, as I have no problem disengaging the grip safety on my guns when I shoot. Plus I don't like the idea of disabling a safety device on a gun that is used for any serious purpose. (Well, maybe on a modern lever gun equipped with the dratted cross-bolt safety.)

A double action pistol that has no de-cocking lever can also be operated safely by observing the Four Rules and taking extra care when lowering the hammer manually. But many DA guns are equipped with de-cocking levers to aid in safely de-cocking the gun. It's one thing to deal with a gun such as a CZ-75B which has no de-cocking lever. Folks de-cock manually all the time with that pistol, or they place the gun in Condition 1. But it's another thing to deactivate a perfectly good de-cocking lever for no good reason on a gun designed with/around it. If one wishes to use a Sig P-Series pistol without a de-cocking lever then it would be better to obtain one of the single action models. Deactivating the de-cocking lever is just a bad idea all around.

[blues]

Me and Gaston Glock agree with the premise...















(meant to be humorous, put away the pitchforks...)

[TiroFijo]

Would this be on the same level as pinning the grip safety on a 1911?

The grip safety does not add much (if any) to the safety of the gun, and it is not a very positive safety since it only blocks the rearward movement of the trigger and not the sear, hammer, or firing pin.

What this dupe did with his Sig is effectively disengaging ALL safety devices every time he decocks the hammer by hand.

[mmc45414]

I sorta want to try a SIG, because of the de-cocking lever...

[archangel]

Back in the day sig p220/226 series guns were allegedly not drop safe if the hammer was lowered by trigger pull. Not sure if that’s still the case

That is correct, and there is at least one documented case of a police office being killed as a direct result of that.


When de-cocked correctly, a Sig puts the hammer at the half-cock notch, not touching the firing pin. If lowered by hand, the hammer can go all the way to resting on the firing pin, and apparently even move the pin forward just enough so that the firing pin block cannot engage. At that point, all the safeties are disengaged, and all it takes is a blow to the hammer to fire it.

Sig later added a rebound spring, which pushes the hammer back to the half cock notch if it is lowered all the way.

Or you could, you know, just use the de-cock lever like you're supposed to.

[Greg]

When the 1911 was first adopted by horse mounted cavalry, the grip safety was seen as extra insurance against plugging your horse.

Cocked pistol, thumb safety off, butter-fingered trooper + a lanyard, add in a horse possibly running at full steam with a pistol bouncing on his side......


(Derailment over)

[Bucky]

Some guy over on M4carbine.net was talking about how he would find Beretta 92D's and convert them to DA/SA so he wouldn't have to bother with the safety levers. And nobody said anything.

It does make slide disassemble much easier. ;)

[GardoneVT]

Would this be on the same level as pinning the grip safety on a 1911?

Emphatically, no- with a caveat.

Col. Jeff Cooper recommended the practice ; not only do some shooters have ergonomic difficulties activating the safety, if a shooter is injured in the firing hand their grip will not disable the safety; thus preventing function of the gun during what may be a Very Critical Moment.

The caveat is , in modern times a pinned safety 1911 becomes a legal risk. One may have to explain to a group of liberal jurors why it is they disabled a manufacturer equipped safety , at $400 per billable hour. A pleasure Mr DeDecocker above will get to enjoy should he ever use that damaged firearm defensively.

[Wheeler]

Would this be on the same level as pinning the grip safety on a 1911?

No.

[StraitR]

Post 320 drop safe shenanigans, this goober exemplifies my vision of those still willing to carry a Sig Sauer pistol by choice. They're kind of the "Florida Man" of gun owners. :p;)

[Wheeler]

Post 320 drop safe shenanigans, this goober exemplifies my vision of those still willing to carry a Sig Sauer pistol by choice. They're kind of the "Florida Man" of gun owners. :p;)

Much like ARs and splattergats certain pistols can discharge if they land in a certain manner. Are those now the Florida Man long guns of choice? It was my understanding that Sig fixed that particular issue with the 320 series.

[Suvorov]

Sometimes other gun owners and their stupidity perplexes me to no end.

I feel your pain....

Hopefully the guy got lit up.

I belong to some 4Runner groups on FB. Hardly a week goes by without one of them showing a photo of their magnet mounted pistol or some other type of pistol holster inside the vehicle. I used to say something but it is useless.

These idiots will end up hurting themselves or someone innocent with their stupidity and then they will be used by the anti's as poster children for why guns should be heavily restricted. We are more than often our own worse enemy.

That is the unfortunate irony with or 2A and something no doubt our Founding Fathers were aware of. If I could wave a magic want and make it so all gun owners were proficient both tactically and technically and had some sort of real world training under their belt before they ever went out in public with a gun, I would. But like Frodo's Ring, such power only serves to enslave others......... :(

[StraitR]

Much like ARs and splattergats certain pistols can discharge if they land in a certain manner. Are those now the Florida Man long guns of choice? It was my understanding that Sig fixed that particular issue with the 320 series.


Sure, I suppose.

[Rex G]

The pistol, which is the subject of this discussion, would be safer if never decocked. A cocked P220/226/229/etc is, arguably, reasonably safe, if carried in a proper holster, and I have seen such arguments made in forums, over the years. Using the trigger to decock is, however, defeating the internal safety, as I understand it.

The image does not show a DAK SIG, as the hammer configuration is wrong. DAO hammers, with spurs, were available, probably in order to retain the weapon properly in some thumb-break holsters. It is entirely possible that image shows such a DAO weapon, and, if so, the person who created the social media post is trolling folks. I have come to, by default, suspect a troll, when I see such silly stuff posted.

[hufnagel]

Did ya ever read something and think "... fuck it. We should turn in all our guns. We as a race are too fucking stupid."

OP's quoted fellow is starting to make me think that.

[Wheeler]

Did ya ever read something and think "... fuck it. We should turn in all our guns. We as a race are too fucking stupid."

OP's quoted fellow is starting to make me think that.

No.

[TiroFijo]

The pistol, which is the subject of this discussion, would be safer if never decocked. A cocked P220/226/229/etc is, arguably, reasonably safe, if carried in a proper holster, and I have seen such arguments made in forums, over the years. Using the trigger to decock is, however, defeating the internal safety, as I understand it.

The image does not show a DAK SIG, as the hammer configuration is wrong. DAO hammers, with spurs, were available, probably in order to retain the weapon properly in some thumb-break holsters. It is entirely possible that image shows such a DAO weapon, and, if so, the person who created the social media post is trolling folks. I have come to, by default, suspect a troll, when I see such silly stuff posted.

How come a cocked SA gun is safer than a decocked one that requires a long and relatively heavy DA trigger pull to fire?
Do you advocate carrying a 1911 cocked and unlocked?
Even with a FP safety, a SA gun is only a few mm away from firing if anything touches the trigger.

[TheNewbie]

How come a cocked SA gun is safer than a decocked one that requires a long and relatively heavy DA trigger pull to fire?
Do you advocate carrying a 1911 cocked and unlocked?
Even with a FP safety, a SA gun is only a few mm away from firing if anything touches the trigger.

I think what he is saying, given the stupidity of the person who did this, it’s more dangerous to thumb decock the Sig vs just carrying it as a SAO. Don’t think Rex is saying it’s wise, just slightly less monumentaly stupid.

[Rex G]

How come a cocked SA gun is safer than a decocked one that requires a long and relatively heavy DA trigger pull to fire?
Do you advocate carrying a 1911 cocked and unlocked?
Even with a FP safety, a SA gun is only a few mm away from firing if anything touches the trigger.

1. I never stated that a cocked SA gun is safer than a decocked gun “that requires a long and relatively heavy DA trigger pull to fire.” I see nothing in my above post, that would indicate that. Moreover, the subject of this post is not a single-action auto-loader, so why are we having this off-topic discussion? I said that “The pistol, which is the subject of this discussion, would be safer if never decocked.” Please, do not read anything else into that. I mean that leaving a P220-series DA/SA pistol cocked leaves all of its safety features intact, so, is the lesser of two evils. Many, if not all, P220-series DA/SA SIGs can be rendered non-drop-safe if decocked without using the decocker, by pulling the trigger and easing-down the hammer

2. I do not advocate carrying a 1911 “cocked and unlocked.” (Edited to add: I am familiar with the 1911 system, though more on the serious hobbyist level, at this point in time. I prefer full-five-inch 1911 pistols, and decreasing shoulder mobility makes it harder to cleanly, smoothly, and quickly draw the pistol, from the typically high-riding concealment rig. Longer cover garment, needed for concealing lower-riding holsters, are typically too hot, much of the years, in SE Texas.)

3. Yes, even with a firing pin safety, a single action weapon, or, a cocked DA/SA weapon, is only a few millimeters away from firing, if the trigger is pulled.

Perhaps, my mention of having “seen such arguments” was taken to mean that I have argued for carrying cocked DA/SA and/or off-safe, cocked SA pistols? Well, having “seen such arguments,” is not the same as arguing for that practice. Actually, I am quite leery of quite a few of today’s pistols, with fully-cocked strikers, and what I believe to be too-light triggers, and/or too-short trigger strokes, with only what I believe to be a too-weak spring for resistance. (The Glock’s striker is not fully-cocked, when the trigger is at rest.)

[TiroFijo]

Thanks, Rex. Sorry for the derail...

[Rex G]

Thanks, Rex. Sorry for the derail...

No problemo; forums are for discussing things. :)

[LSP552]

Sooner or later, it’s a self-correcting problem.