How many rounds in a crate? I can't find this anywhere ;{

[BaiHu]

Every once and a while I read about these prepper/doomer folks scrambling over crates of ammo at gun shows, etc, but I can't find a fixed number for rounds in a crate. Does anyone know if there is a definitive number or is 'a case' an amorphous kind of term? My assumption is 1,000, but when I see the size of some 'crates', I can't believe it is only 1k.

[ToddG]

"Case" is the usual unit by which ammunition is sold from manufacturers to distributors. However, different ammo (especially different calibers) come in different sized cases. For example, 9mm 115gr TMJ Blazer comes in 1,000 rounds per case while 5.56mm 75gr TAP comes in 200rd per case.

Many manufacturers sell their premium JHP pistol ammo in 500rd cases, while others (like the 124gr +p HST I use) comes in 1,000rd cases.

I've never heard the term crate used as a unit of measurement for ammunition. I'd assume it's based on volume rather than quantity, which makes it particularly less useful since you cannot account for differences in packaging materials, etc. (e.g., Blazer pistol ammunition comes in larger 50rd boxes than American Eagle pistol ammunition of the same caliber, weight, and type).

[Tamara]

Every once and a while I read about these prepper/doomer folks scrambling over crates of ammo at gun shows, etc, but I can't find a fixed number for rounds in a crate. Does anyone know if there is a definitive number or is 'a case' an amorphous kind of term? My assumption is 1,000, but when I see the size of some 'crates', I can't believe it is only 1k.

Dunno "crate", and what Todd said above about "case". (Although when it comes to centerfire pistol & rifle ammo, "case" as a shorthand term is generally assumed to refer to a thousand rounds. The generic rimfire case is 5,000.)

To further complicate things, "bulk pack" has come to signify loose-packed ammo sold in boxes, but to different segment of the shooting population, a "bulk" ammo purchase means you bought it by the container (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-foot_equivalent_unit), which is not as uncommon as you'd think among people who shoot guns that sit on tripods.

[BaiHu]

Thanks Todd. I'm just trying to figure out what these nutters are expecting to happen. Even if they have 100 guys in their collective fortress of solitude, what on god's green earth could they possibly think to do if the gov't comes for you...bad boys, bad boys, watchu gonna do :p

Here's an example of things I've seen recently and are very interesting to me regarding people's thought process on guns/ammo. The more people weigh in on this the better for my interests. If we need to change this to a new topic Todd, then feel free to shift it over with a new title.

This is from a blogger:
Gunmakers For Obama!
-Andy

... is a slogan you're not likely to see anytime soon.

But if there's one part of the Obamaconomy that's booming right now, no pun intended, it's gun sales.

"Plants here and overseas are working full out. It is a question of capacity. Domestic companies are adding shifts, cross training workers, reorganizing how the machines in a plant are organized (the last four gun plants I have been on the floor of were in the process of trying to increase efficiency by moving tooling around) and, in some cases, buying new machines. Firms are reluctant to add employees with changes in health care looming as they do not know what the costs will be, and they would rather not hire people only to lay them off six months from now if conditions change.
One thing I'd be interested in knowing is the breakdown of this sales increase between first-time buyers and repeat buyers. I have a safe full of the things and every time I go to a gun shop thinking about picking up another one, I usually leave with a bunch more ammunition instead."

That stuff's gotten expensive. The chart at the link was kind of dated, so I looked up a couple of current prices on the items they listed:

* American Eagle 9mm FMJ: $14.69/bx in November 2008, now $14.12.

* Wolf .223 FMJ: $7.97/bx in November 2008, now $5.79.

* Remington UMC .40 S&W: $19.89/bx in November 2008, now $19.90.

Other than the .223, it looks like prices are basically about the same as they were 3 years ago. Anecdotally, that feels about right since I remember the big sticker shock back then and not so much of an increase since.

On the gun sales themselves, though, that DC piece also mentions:

"Throw in increased popular culture television exposure of firearms and shooting, including everything from “Gold Rush” to “Top Shot” to “Sons of Guns” to “Doomsday Preppers,” and you can see that the trend will continue for some time to come."

That may have something to do with it, but there's a chicken and egg thing here as far as new buyers go. I love Top Shot and Sons of Guns because I'm a gunowner. Do these shows really appeal to the non-gun owning public enough to turn someone into a first time gun buyer? I hope so.

Put us some f'n knowledge in the comments, gun-owning morons and moronettes. What are you seeing locally on availability and pricing of guns and ammo? Are you a recent first-time gun buyer or do you know one?

This is from a financial message board:
Election Year Has Business Booming At Bitterroot Ammo Shop
I see that some of my vendors raised prices again over the weekend by $20 on some calibres. That's about $40/case in the last week and a half. Starting to feel like another ammo and gun run coming on. Went "cheap" this time and bought a couple crates of 7.62x54R instead. The brass cased is getting more expensive.

- Black Blade

Election Year Has Business Booming At Bitterroot Ammo Shop

Snippit:

A Stevensville ammunition company is feeling the heat of what they call an election year panic. They say the demand for ammo has more than tripled this year, as people worry about what the election will bring.

Darren Newsome founded Bitterroot Valley Ammunition and Components (BVAC) 25 years ago. His company specializes in producing small caliber ammunition products for the public and other companies. He said he's never seen anything like this.

“We've seen everybody all the manufactures ordering more than they usually order and we're like, something's going on,” said Newsome.

Newsome calls the jump in sales "panic buying" and says it's expected during an election year, when people worry about what's next for the country. But he said those anxious buyers started a little earlier than he had planned for.

“We're seeing it on the consumer side, they're buying a lot more than they usually do, we have people that usually don't buy ammo, buying ammo,” he said.

Newsome's company supplies ammo to people across the country. He said it's not just Montanans after some rounds. He talked with other suppliers at a trade show in Tulsa, Oklahoma with the same high demand for ammo.

Newsome said a lot of the panic buying comes from a bad economy. “I had a guy at the show, I think he bought like 10,000 rounds and paid us cash. He's like I'd rather have the ammo than this paper in my wallet.”

Continued: http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/30856983/detail.html

[Chuck Haggard]

BVAC has not been around for 25 years, more like 5

Anything Mr. Newsome says I would take with a shaker of salt.

[Tamara]

Thanks Todd. I'm just trying to figure out what these nutters are expecting to happen. Even if they have 100 guys in their collective fortress of solitude, what on god's green earth could they possibly think to do if the gov't comes for you...bad boys, bad boys, watchu gonna do :p

While I've no doubt that there are some people out there "prepping" guns and ammo so they can run around with a colander strapped to their face and yell "WOLVERINES!" shooting Bulgarian UN invaders in a fantasy post-apocalyptic America, there are also people that are getting nervous before an election cycle that will either wind up putting someone with a very poor 2nd Amendment track record behind the desk at 1600 Penna. Ave or, even worse, give us a second helping of Barry O., only with no re-election to worry about.

My grandparents lived through the Great Depression and never threw away rubber bands ever after. Me, I lived through the AWB, and I'll probably always be skittish about having enough magazines. I think I'll go order another one on line right now...

[cmoore]

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