Beretta APX: now with long slide, Centurion RDO, &c. Extended slide catch/mag release

[arcfide]

Apparently Beretta is really pushing things with their APX line. As a Beretta fan, I can't help but be excited by some of this.

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/07/29/beretta-grows-apx-pistol-line-with-target-rdo-fde-models

Apparently, without much fanfare, Beretta has added a long slide version of the APX and a number of other models. The long slide is interesting:

1. Fiber optic sight stock
2. Lighter trigger stock
3. Extended mag release
4. Extended slide catch
5. Accurized
6. Red dot optic ready

I know some people were talking about this sort of stuff, and apparently it's now in the works and should be available soon.

[AdioSS]

The APX Target has a lot that I wanted from my Combat. Definitely looking forward to swapping some new parts in whenever they become available :cool:

[Bucky]

The APX target looks interesting. Too bad they didn’t go out to 5”. Wonder if that’ll speed up the velocity. My standard APX runs a bit slow on velocity compared to some others.

[CanineCombatives]

Slide release looks the same to me.

[AdioSS]

Slide release looks the same to me.

Hopefully the left side release is different.


I’m wondering if they’ll make production versions with the frame safety included.

[claymore504]

Great additions to the line. I owned an APX compact once and liked it. traded it off in the end. I really think the APX is a great handgun though. That Centurian RDO has my interest.

[arcfide]

Looks like these are already shipping and in the hands of customers. I'm interested to know how people like them. The Centurion RDO means that you effectively have a Compact RDO as well. And I've got a hankering for playing with the APX Target, personally.

[PGT]

maybe e_stern can weigh in on whether we'll see any more .40 cal variants. I don't much care for it but I do like having .40 slides for using 357SIG barrels in just because I like oddball builds.

[e_stern]

maybe e_stern can weigh in on whether we'll see any more .40 cal variants. I don't much care for it but I do like having .40 slides for using 357SIG barrels in just because I like oddball builds.


The .40 Market is essentially dead. As far as "NEW" .40s, obviously we will build what the market will bear. I'm not going to say that .40 is dead, but the actual sell through on .40 of any kind is negligible these days. Such that the business case for new .40s is very hard and every new SKU for .40 is a very tricky argument.

We will not be doing the recently released APX Variants in .40 at this time. That obviously may change in the future, as we have developed .40 for the APX platform, but right now, our focus is on 9MM.

Notably with the Secret Service killing .357, I believe that cartridge will be going the way of the .41AE soon, with .40 soon to follow.*



*To clarify, that is my belief.

[PGT]

thanks for the reply.



Notably with the Secret Service killing .357, I believe that cartridge will be going the way of the .41AE soon, with .40 soon to follow.*

.

I just like fireballs

[e_stern]

Slide release looks the same to me.

It is the wide release you have been wanting. Significantly wider than the standard one.

I will endeavor to have them available separately as soon as I can.

[CanineCombatives]

It is the wide release you have been wanting. Significantly wider than the standard one.

I will endeavor to have them available separately as soon as I can.


Thanks Eric, that definitely moves the ball down the field quite a ways. Do you happen to have a decent photo of it?

[AdioSS]

The .40 Market is essentially dead. As far as "NEW" .40s, obviously we will build what the market will bear. I'm not going to say that .40 is dead, but the actual sell through on .40 of any kind is negligible these days. Such that the business case for new .40s is very hard and every new SKU for .40 is a very tricky argument.

We will not be doing the recently released APX Variants in .40 at this time. That obviously may change in the future, as we have developed .40 for the APX platform, but right now, our focus is on 9MM.

Notably with the Secret Service killing .357, I believe that cartridge will be going the way of the .41AE soon, with .40 soon to follow.*


*To clarify, that is my belief.
Definitely not happy to read this.

This isn’t the right thread for this, but is there ANY chance of the 92X line getting .40 guns? How about the Performance models?

It is the wide release you have been wanting. Significantly wider than the standard one.

I will endeavor to have them available separately as soon as I can.
I am glad to read this!

[e_stern]

Definitely not happy to read this.

This isn’t the right thread for this, but is there ANY chance of the 92X line getting .40 guns? How about the Performance models?

I am glad to read this!

Always a chance, Not right now though. The 96A1 is our .40 Offering.



It’s been in the works for a while. The hard part is keeping it from being too big, but still offering extra purchase.

[e_stern]

Thanks Eric, that definitely moves the ball down the field quite a ways. Do you happen to have a decent photo of it?

I can get one tomorrow.

[AdioSS]

Always a chance, Not right now though. The 96A1 is our .40 Offering.



It’s been in the works for a while. The hard part is keeping it from being too big, but still offering extra purchase.

With the steel frame & Brig slide, the 92X Performance is begging for .40 ;)

[Jim Watson]

What is a "pre-tensioned barrel" on a 9mm? I understand the term on rifles and .22 pistols, but not how it works on a short recoil auto.

[Bucky]

Notably with the Secret Service killing .357, I believe that cartridge will be going the way of the .41AE soon, with .40 soon to follow.*


Respectfully, to compare the .357 or the .40 to the .41AE is a huge stretch. The .41AE never had any wide spread adoption like the other cartridges. I understand the point though. The demand is dwindling, especially on the .357.

In my area, the .40 is still very popular with LE, with a few just recently updating their issue sidearms. I wonder if, ironically, down the road those that wish to stay .40 will be forced to go 9mm due to lack of availability of modern .40 offerings.

[CraigS]

Per a discussion w/ my SIL officer and SWAT team member, .40 is definitely dieing. He is a solid 5'10" and maybe 180# and he doesn't even like shooting it. His chief is looking to switch from .40 to 9mm mainly so officers can qualify better. As most of us know the % of officers who are gun people is pretty small. His experience is that officers who don't shoot much do much worse qualifying w/ .40 compared to 9mm. His thought is that the extra snap that they know is coming, has them flinching etc.

[e_stern]

Respectfully, to compare the .357 or the .40 to the .41AE is a huge stretch. The .41AE never had any wide spread adoption like the other cartridges. I understand the point though. The demand is dwindling, especially on the .357.

In my area, the .40 is still very popular with LE, with a few just recently updating their issue sidearms. I wonder if, ironically, down the road those that wish to stay .40 will be forced to go 9mm due to lack of availability of modern .40 offerings.

I don't disagree, but I do see it going away. It really is not a pleasant cartridge to shoot (.40S&W), and .357SIG, while a neat cartridge, is not that much better (I say this as the owner of two 8357 Cougars and a few 229s in .357 for giggles).

FWIW, if there is demand, the .40 will be available, but as of today, the demand does not justify it for most SKUs.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

The writing is definitely on the wall for the .357 & .40 since the FBI deemed 9mm better for their uses. Shit always runs down and in the world of law enforcement the FBI is king and was both responsible for the .40 becoming popular and ultimately it's demise. I don't see it ever going away completely as both calibers will always have it's proponents.

That being said, Beretta is not the only maker who has realized the market for .40 is basically no longer valid. CZ does not have ANY .40 SKU's in their lineup AT ALL. SIG only have the P320 in .357 SIG left, I believe... says a lot considering it was their lovechild. It is too bad as IMO, 9mm is fine but leaves a bit to be desired in certain areas of ballistics that both calibers can improve.

[AdioSS]

I don't disagree, but I do see it going away. It really is not a pleasant cartridge to shoot (.40S&W), and .357SIG, while a neat cartridge, is not that much better (I say this as the owner of two 8357 Cougars and a few 229s in .357 for giggles).

FWIW, if there is demand, the .40 will be available, but as of today, the demand does not justify it for most SKUs.

Without earpro or a Suppressor nothing is pleasant to shoot. That’s not the point of it. These are little contained explosions going off in our hands pushing chunks of metal out with the force to destroy whatever is in its path. If it isn’t pleasant to shoot then I’m fairly sure it is much less pleasant to be on the other end of the barrel. Bigger explosions and bigger chunks or metal flying with more force equals to increased damage on the other end. I don’t care about the political reasons for agencies to switch back to a smaller & weaker round. I want to more effective round. If ammo companies put half as much development into the .40 S&W then they’d probably be back to where that round started off. As an upgrade in performance over the 9mm.

Most of my guns are Berettas. And most of those are currently chambered in .40 Smith & Wesson. I have even converted guns that originally fired 9mm to fire .40, like my M9, M9A1, & several 92FS frames. My favorite guns to carry are an 8040D MiniCougar that I added the sear parts to & a factory NP3 coated 96G Centurion with night sights. I have only sold off 1 Beretta (a 9000S in .40 that just didn’t fit my hand right.) My only 9mm Berettas were never offered in .40 (Billennium, frame safety 92 made in Brazil, & the APX Combat.) And I seriously considered converting a 96D Brig slide to go on the Billie. My most recent gun purchase was a CX4 in .40.

[Danjojo]

APX to me makes more sense in calibers larger than 9mm. Put that extra wide slide and heavy chassis to work. The popular 9mm pistols just keep getting smaller and smaller. A soft shooting, long slide APX in 40, 45, or the resurrected 10mm has more of a place in today's market than a 30oz duty 9mm.

Hopefully the APX line picks up steam and brings that.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

APX to me makes more sense in calibers larger than 9mm. Put that extra wide slide and heavy chassis to work. The popular 9mm pistols just keep getting smaller and smaller. A soft shooting, long slide APX in 40, 45, or the resurrected 10mm has more of a place in today's market than a 30oz duty 9mm.

Hopefully the APX line picks up steam and brings that.

This is pretty much how I feel about it, I usually only consider 9mm as the best choice for smaller pistols that are either sub-compact or single stack. I think the main problem with people regarding the .40 is they tend to focus only on the recoil, rather than the shooting fundamentals. My first pistol was an FNP-40, chambered in .40 obviously, nobody informed me as to the abhorrant recoil it had and I really liked the way it shot.

Of course, the muzzle would jump when it was fired, but it came right back down quickly and leveled for the next shot... there was no painful abuse. What I really don't understand about the complaints of the .40 recoil is the fact that you can often get .22 trainers or at least a 9mm version if that is not available. Then you can benefit from the cheap and softer shooting ammo while shooting pretty much the same pistol.

Now, I also do feel that many people fire .40 S&W through inappropriate platforms that don't handle the cartridge well. I would wager most of the detractors were shooting it through Glock or some type of concealed carry (sub or single stack) and never bothered to go further down the rabbit hole and just ran back to 9mm crying foul play. I don't have a reference for this but I believe the director of the FBI who made the policy change to .40, still carries the .40 personally.

I wish I had reference for it, but I didn't think to save where I found it. If this is true, it is saying a lot in my opinion. We live in a lowest common denominator society, where mediocrity is the standard and anything that even the most feeble (mentally and physically) cannot use will be discarded. So here we are, 9mm re-enters the world of law enforcement with about as much fanfare as the .40 came along with.

[AdioSS]

Sorry for getting this thread off topic...


I can get one tomorrow.
Is there any chance you got a picture?

[e_stern]

Sorry for getting this thread off topic...


Is there any chance you got a picture?


Yes, see below link. Comapred to the standard slide stop on an FDE Centurion model.

https://imgur.com/a/s08GqDT

[AdioSS]

Thank you again! That should help.

[CanineCombatives]

Without earpro or a Suppressor nothing is pleasant to shoot. That’s not the point of it. These are little contained explosions going off in our hands pushing chunks of metal out with the force to destroy whatever is in its path. If it isn’t pleasant to shoot then I’m fairly sure it is much less pleasant to be on the other end of the barrel. Bigger explosions and bigger chunks or metal flying with more force equals to increased damage on the other end. I don’t care about the political reasons for agencies to switch back to a smaller & weaker round. I want to more effective round. If ammo companies put half as much development into the .40 S&W then they’d probably be back to where that round started off. As an upgrade in performance over the 9mm.


Nothing wrong with being a .40 fan if thats your thing, but calling it the more effective round is silly, after the most extensive, exhaustive, expensive and scientific study into the street effectiveness of modern pistol cartridges ever undertaken proved that it isnt. But even that is not what killed it, the 30% greater recoil energy over 9mm is the real killer. As any professional or national competitor will tell you, recoil is the bane of pistol proficiency, cut and dry physics.

[AdioSS]

Shot per shot, not rapid fire, there’s no way they are the same. Simply firing a round of each shot tell you that. All of that force you feel against your hand, plus some that is absorbed by the mass of the gun & slide cycling back against springs which slow down the force you feel over a few microseconds, is the same energy force applied to whatever the bullet hits. If they were equal, then the recoil would be equal & the only advantages that 9mm would have would be a couple more rounds in the magazine & cheaper ammo.

[pastaslinger]

Are there going to be base pads or mags that make this competitive for carry optics?

[Bucky]

Are there going to be base pads or mags that make this competitive for carry optics?

Beretta does make a 21 round magazine for the APX. Question is, does it fit the mag gauge?

https://www.berettausa.com/en-us/apx-9mm-mag-21-rds-bulk/jmapx219bulk/

[maloosik]

I couldn't pass up the revised pricing and was about to order an RDS Centurion but ordered a long(er) slide Target model instead from Guns midwest.

I wonder how many mags are included, Berettausa pic shows three but the only article I could find out there about the Target model indicated four mags.