Trading S&W Shield for Snubbie, Need Advice

[Redhat]

I've decided to trade the Shield in on a small .38 spl revolver and from what I've read here it seems Ruger and S&W are the best options. The Ruger seems a little larger with a better trigger while the Smith's I have seen have that lock and a less friendly trigger.

I don't yet know the sight or stock options either.

What else am I missing?

Thanks

[blues]

I've decided to trade the Shield in on a small .38 spl revolver and from what I've read here it seems Ruger and S&W are the best options. The Ruger seems a little larger with a better trigger while the Smith's I have seen have that lock and a less friendly trigger.

I don't yet know the sight or stock options either.

What else am I missing?

Thanks

You can get S&W 442, 642, 340 without the lock, if you don't mind the smaller, lighter end of the S&W line. They carry well AIWB, pocket, etc.

I've no experience with the smaller Rugers.

[Redhat]

You can get S&W 442, 642, 340 without the lock, if you don't mind the smaller, lighter end of the S&W line. They carry well AIWB, pocket, etc.

I've no experience with the smaller Rugers.

Thanks Blues, Will I have to look in the used section for that or can I get a new one?

[Hideeho]

the Smith's I have seen have that lock and a less friendly trigger.

Every Smith no-lock J Frame has an individual SKUs for instance the M&P340 is 103072. Search for SKUs will reveal choices. Wolff 8Lb/14Lb spring combination, and extended firing pin, and some internal polishing and dry firing can match Ruger triggers.

[Hizzie]

Budget?
Mode of carry?
Caliber desired?
Skill level?


You can go from low $300’s to $1K for the gun to start. Then any aftermarket gunsmithing will be more $$$.

A steel gun isn't much AIWB with a belt. Workout attire or PJ’s make lightweight more of a priority as does pocket carry. Same with ankle.

22LR, 22 Magnum 32 Magnum, 38 Special, 9x19 or 357 Magnum?

J’s and SP101’s aren’t difficult to work on. Internal cleaning and lube go a long way. Spring kits are available for either and relatively simple to install. Apex is very nice for the J. The S&W internal lock is not difficult to remove and replace with a plug from Original Precision.

[Redhat]

Budget?
Mode of carry?
Caliber desired?
Skill level?


You can go from low $300’s to $1K for the gun to start. Then any aftermarket gunsmithing will be more $$$.

A steel gun isn't much AIWB with a belt. Workout attire or PJ’s make lightweight more of a priority as does pocket carry. Same with ankle.

22LR, 22 Magnum 32 Magnum, 38 Special, 9x19 or 357 Magnum?

J’s and SP101’s aren’t difficult to work on. Internal cleaning and lube go a long way. Spring kits are available for either and relatively simple to install. Apex is very nice for the J. The S&W internal lock is not difficult to remove and replace with a plug from Original Precision.

Thanks.

As I mentioned in the OP .38 spl is what I want.

I have a lot of experience shooting but little with small revolvers...not to say I've never shot one, just not often.

[blues]

Thanks Blues, Will I have to look in the used section for that or can I get a new one?

New. The 642's and 442's can be had pretty inexpensively. Not so with the scandium framed 340. Depends what you need or want.

I carry a 642-1 (no lock) daily around home and walking distances from home.

[Redhat]

New. The 642's and 442's can be had pretty inexpensively. Not so with the scandium framed 340. Depends what you need or want.

I carry a 642-1 (no lock) daily around home and walking distances from home.

I'm a pretty simple guy, so no need for scandium or any other super-lite metals. My ability to shoot it well is top priority. My LGS has quite a few of the right now but all have the lock and that sounds like a deal killer to me.

[blues]

I'm a pretty simple guy, so no need for scandium or any other super-lite metals. My ability to shoot is well is top priority. My LGS has quite a few of the right now but all have the lock and that sounds like a deal killer to me.

642-1 is a hair over 16 oz. loaded. All I've done with mine is paint the front sight, (and darken the rear notch with black Sharpie), and get a couple of good holsters for AIWB and pocket carry as desired.

https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/103810


https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/model-642-no-internal-lock

[BillSWPA]

Give serious consideration to the type of sights you want. The less expensive S&W revolvers might not have the most visible sights under different light conditions, but have multiple options for Crimson Trace LaserGrips. Any of the Rugers will include nice, easily changeable sights. LaserGrips may not be available in the same variety of choices, which may limit their usefulness depending on your mode of carry.

[jtcarm]

642-1 is a hair over 16 oz. loaded. All I've done with mine is paint the front sight, (and darken the rear notch with black Sharpie), and get a couple of good holsters for AIWB and pocket carry as desired.

https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/103810


https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/model-642-no-internal-lock

Oh great, another web site to shop for gun bargains[emoji849]

[Gray Ghost]

Earlier this year I bought a new, no lock, performance center 642. It came polished up with a nice trigger and cut for moon clips. I think it was about $500. It has replaced my vintage, pre-lock 637 as my pocket/backup gun.

I believe it is a Talo special edition:

https://wac.edgecastcdn.net/001A39/prod/media/Zk8Hw2UpG9iY9CGsite/6C510BD47956AADEE735E69B1FC3E97A.app1_153212441903 6_L1800.jpeg

[RJ]

I am a Revolver noobie. I surveyed the options a year or so ago and came up with the same two options, J frame or LCR.

I looked at several J frames in the stores and honestly was not that impressed. The action seemed creepy and stiff, not smooth. Same on a "performance center" model, which really surprised me. It looked cool though. I was also a bit surprised at how many stories I saw online of folks who returned their J frames to Smif for service. And the whole lock / no lock thing was weird. I mean, I would have gotten a no lock model, for sure.

I tried a LCR and man was it butt ugly. But the trigger was very smooth. I also did not find a lot of reliability issues online here and elsewhere.

So thinking I'd need a bigger heavier gun as first snubby, I bought a Ruger LCR in .357. I only shot wadcutters though. After a year it dawned on me I could save 4 oz and bought a LCR in .38 special. I shoot the same WCs. Shoots great and I'm really happy with both, although the .357 is in the safe while I decide to sell it or not.

Oh one other thing, having the ability to swap the front sight on the LCR was important to me. I have a Novak Tritium sight arriving from Brownells this week. Just a 1/16" roll pin and the sight comes off easy.

Just my 0.02.

[MK11]

Thanks.

As I mentioned in the OP .38 spl is what I want.

I have a lot of experience shooting but little with small revolvers...not to say I've never shot one, just not often.

May want to get a little more trigger time to make sure this is what you want. The Shield and Ruger LCR are my two primary carry guns. The LCR is great and fills a niche but the Shield is far more shootable.

[Redhat]

Give serious consideration to the type of sights you want. The less expensive S&W revolvers might not have the most visible sights under different light conditions, but have multiple options for Crimson Trace LaserGrips. Any of the Rugers will include nice, easily changeable sights. LaserGrips may not be available in the same variety of choices, which may limit their usefulness depending on your mode of carry.

Thanks for the tip. I wear bi-focal glasses these days so getting a good look at any front sight is not going to happen. Further, I may not have the glasses in an emergency. The solution might be a CTC grip. Do you have experience with those?

[BillSWPA]

Thanks for the tip. I wear bi-focal glasses these days so getting a good look at any front sight is not going to happen. Further, I may not have the glasses in an emergency. The solution might be a CTC grip. Do you have experience with those?

The red lasers, which are all I have used, are great indoors and also in low light outdoors. They are completely useless outdoors during the day. Most of your problems will likely occur under light conditions which will make them useful.

I wear multifucal lenses with a gradual transition from distance in the upper portion of the lens, gradually transitioning to near vision at the bottom of the lens. I can get good front sight focus a little below the middle of the lens, in the transition region.

GJM and I believe others have had success with Varilux X lenses, and there is a thread discussing those lenses on this forum. intend to try them when I get my next set of glasses.

[Redhat]

May want to get a little more trigger time to make sure this is what you want. The Shield and Ruger LCR are my two primary carry guns. The LCR is great and fills a niche but the Shield is far more shootable.

I've had the Shield for a few years and it has been 100% reliable, my only complaint is it is too thin for me, even with Talon grips so I'm going to move away to a DA revolver which I think may offer a better defensive trigger and smaller pkg, especially for pocket carry.

My definition of "shootable" means I'm able to hit effectively with it at an acceptable speed and distance. I'm aware the trigger and sights are much different, but I'm willing to put in the work.

You said the LCR fills a niche, so I'd like to hear under what conditions you switch them out.

Thanks

[TGS]

My random observances having shot and or owned a combination of the S&W 642, LCR, and 2.25" SP101:

If you are at all recoil sensitive, get the LCR or SP101. The recoil on the 642 is outright painful if you're shooting anything but 148gr wadcutters, and even then its only acceptable. When I had my 642, a single range session of 50 130gr FMJ and 25 rounds of 158gr +p left my hand swollen and painful for a few hours.

The LCR is slightly larger than the 642 in general chunkiness. It's still a small revolver, but everyone's clothing choices are different. If your pockets are big enough, get the LCR. If you're carrying on a belt only, get the SP101.

The SP101 and LCR will typically cost less than their S&W counterparts. S&W has quality control issues these days. I'd much rather spend money on an SP101 than a steel J-frame unless you're willing to open up the wallet and go old school.

All in all, I think the LCR would be an excellent choice for you. I found the LCR recoil to be much less painful than the 642. In addition to the option of laser grips, the standard LCR also has a removable front sight that you can replace with any number of bright, affordable, easy to acquire front sights in either a tritium or fiber optic variety.

[Stephanie B]

How do you plan to carry it? That's going to drive things such as size, weight, and whether you need DAO or SA/DA actions. Do you need an Airweight or LCR or can you carry a short-barreled K-frame?

[Redhat]

...S&W has quality control issues these days....


Haven't heard about this...what are these issues?

[Redhat]

I am a Revolver noobie. I surveyed the options a year or so ago and came up with the same two options, J frame or LCR.

I looked at several J frames in the stores and honestly was not that impressed. The action seemed creepy and stiff, not smooth. Same on a "performance center" model, which really surprised me. It looked cool though. I was also a bit surprised at how many stories I saw online of folks who returned their J frames to Smif for service. And the whole lock / no lock thing was weird. I mean, I would have gotten a no lock model, for sure.

I tried a LCR and man was it butt ugly. But the trigger was very smooth. I also did not find a lot of reliability issues online here and elsewhere.

So thinking I'd need a bigger heavier gun as first snubby, I bought a Ruger LCR in .357. I only shot wadcutters though. After a year it dawned on me I could save 4 oz and bought a LCR in .38 special. I shoot the same WCs. Shoots great and I'm really happy with both, although the .357 is in the safe while I decide to sell it or not.

Oh one other thing, having the ability to swap the front sight on the LCR was important to me. I have a Novak Tritium sight arriving from Brownells this week. Just a 1/16" roll pin and the sight comes off easy.

Just my 0.02.

Thanks for the reply. When you say it shoots great, what do you mean? Recoil is not bad? Accuracy? How about the concealment capabilities?

[RJ]

Thanks for the reply. When you say it shoots great, what do you mean? Recoil is not bad? Accuracy? How about the concealment capabilities?

Well...bearing in mind I am a complete newcomer compared to most if not everybody here when it comes to shooting: By shoots great meaning that I shoot my LCR through the same set of metrics that I use for my Glock 19.5.

Which are:

- 10 yards, 10 shots, in 10 seconds on an NRA B-8. The LCR I shoot in two cylinders, 5 s each. I am a 44-0x with the LCR, compared to approximately 80-1X with the Glock 19. So a way to go.
- A Drill Called "Find Your Level", in which starting at 3 yd you put 4 in a 4" circle, 3 in a 3" box, 2 in a 2" circle and 1 in a 1" box. See picture below from Sunday's range trip of a 9/10 score with the LCR. I am typically 9 or 10 out of 10 at 5 yards with the Glock 19, which is clearly much easier for me to shoot.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190730/8406ce0af0d3c5110285883df9617f63.jpg

[TGS]

Haven't heard about this...what are these issues?

You can spend the next week doing nothing but reading QC horror stories.

Canted sights, off-center bores, generally messed up components.

The current design of S&W revolvers are more robust, efficient (esp. so regarding the Model 19/66) and optimized for production than before, but they just aren't paying attention to catching anything before it goes out the door compared to years past when every gun was practically hand-fitted to some degree before shipping (by necessity).

[RJ]

Thanks for the reply. When you say it shoots great, what do you mean? Recoil is not bad? Accuracy? How about the concealment capabilities?

As regards concealment ability, I typically carry either in my front pocket in a Desantis Nemesis, or at the gym, in a Dark Star Gear LCR Holster.

I ordered a Hogue Tamer Bantam to replace the standard grip (this is what is pictured above) and find it is slightly smaller and makes carry that much easier.

The DSG holster is extremely comfortable and clips on my gym shorts very well.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190731/dbcfd509bd67f100b8bd0788821b373c.jpg

[Redhat]

Thanks guys.

I'll just straight up say it, I like the looks of the 442/642 way better than the Ruger...but...these days I'm more partial to stuff that's built right and works...for that I'll accept a little ugly. Probably why I stayed with the Gen 3 G19 so long until just this week I purchased a planned replacement...a CZ P07.

I did watch a pretty detailed comparison video on the two put out by Luckygunner. One thing he mentioned is that for those of us who might like a CTC laser, is apparently they stopped making the smaller grip for the LCR and now only offer the larger one.

With all that, function and reliability sit at the top of my list. I don't wanna be dinkin' around with factory returns if I can avoid it.

[Totem Polar]

I am a reasonably die-hard wheelie guy. The last shooting class I took, I used a J-frame. As recently as last year I had 6 of them; now I’m down to 3, and it’ll be 2 as soon as I sell my 642. I just staked my claim on a minty, .38 LCR this week (a month-old change in WA state law keeps me from just buying it and bringing it home the same day), and the reason boils down to sight choices. I’m just not able to make the stock Baughman ramp on guns like the 642, 442, and standard 640 work any more, but the XS dot front sight is a revelation for my eyes, so the LCR and things like the Colt Night Cobra it is going forward. The stock LCR grip is also killer.

Honestly, I prefer almost everything else about the 642, because, tradition; but the sights seal the deal on moving over to the LCR after being a non-stop J owner since 1990. FWIW.

You can get a new, no lock 642 for roughly 4 bills just by looking. It did take me more than one to find a smooth, reliable no-squeak example though. As well, I am another who no longer trusts S&W CS, having recently sent another J-frame back twice, with no relief.

At any rate, see if you can get a look at both a no-lock 642 and one of the distributor LCR .38s with the olive drab grip and XS dot front sight from the factory. A good example of either one will shoot and be easy to tote. JMO.

[Redhat]

I am a reasonably die-hard wheelie guy. The last shooting class I took, I used a J-frame. As recently as last year I had 6 of them; now I’m down to 3, and it’ll be 2 as soon as I sell my 642. I just staked my claim on a minty, .38 LCR this week (a month-old change in WA state law keeps me from just buying it and bringing it home the same day), and the reason boils down to sight choices. I’m just not able to make the stock Baughman ramp on guns like the 642, 442, and standard 640 work any more, but the XS dot front sight is a revelation for my eyes, so the LCR and things like the Colt Night Cobra it is going forward. The stock LCR grip is also killer.

Honestly, I prefer almost everything else about the 642, because, tradition; but the sights seal the deal on moving over to the LCR after being a non-stop J owner since 1990. FWIW.

You can get a new, no lock 642 for roughly 4 bills just by looking. It did take me more than one to find a smooth, reliable no-squeak example though. As well, I am another who no longer trusts S&W CS, having recently sent another J-frame back twice, with no relief.

At any rate, see if you can get a look at both a no-lock 642 and one of the distributor LCR .38s with the olive drab grip and XS dot front sight from the factory. A good example of either one will shoot and be easy to tote. JMO.

Thanks for your observations.. I have a shooting buddy who has a Smith and since I can't remember shooting one since the mid 90's, I may hit him up to shoot his next time out.

[41magfan]

If you're going to roll the dice on a S&W, might as well get it at a decent price: $299, but only two left.

https://grabagun.com/s-w-642-1-875-38spl-sts-alum-cent.html?source=igodigital

[Gray Ghost]

It is worth saying that a 2" J-frame is not an easy gun to shoot. If you are new to revolvers, it will take some getting used to. You might consider buying a used K frame with a 4" barrel to train with until you get the trigger mechanics and manual of arms down. Miniaturizing the revolver does not make it easier to shoot. You need to practice staging the trigger until you can do it automatically and at speed. Years ago I took a two-day general defensive handgun class and shot the whole thing with a J frame and speed loaders. My hand were shredded at the end, but I have been good to go on J frames ever since.

Here is a photo of my 642 in my Milt Sparks Summer Special.

40617

[Pistol Pete 10]

I have 2 642 revolvers. # has the lock, #2 no lock. Both have been right on, shoot to point of aim. # 2 had an extremely heavy trigger pull so I installed a different mainspring, it's about like #1 now. They do have a hefty recoil but they are small enough for pocket carry and that's how I carry. As for trigger pull they are much better than the 101. Not as light as the LCR. Smaller than the On another note, Ruger's QC ain't what it was when Bill was still around. My experience is that a lot of the mfgs don't put any effort in QC now days.

[Redhat]

You can spend the next week doing nothing but reading QC horror stories.

Canted sights, off-center bores, generally messed up components.

The current design of S&W revolvers are more robust, efficient (esp. so regarding the Model 19/66) and optimized for production than before, but they just aren't paying attention to catching anything before it goes out the door compared to years past when every gun was practically hand-fitted to some degree before shipping (by necessity).

Didn't know it had gotten that bad. My Shield runs great. They under new ownership or something?

[BillSWPA]

Thanks guys.

I'll just straight up say it, I like the looks of the 442/642 way better than the Ruger...but...these days I'm more partial to stuff that's built right and works...for that I'll accept a little ugly. Probably why I stayed with the Gen 3 G19 so long until just this week I purchased a planned replacement...a CZ P07.

I did watch a pretty detailed comparison video on the two put out by Luckygunner. One thing he mentioned is that for those of us who might like a CTC laser, is apparently they stopped making the smaller grip for the LCR and now only offer the larger one.

With all that, function and reliability sit at the top of my list. I don't wanna be dinkin' around with factory returns if I can avoid it.

Given a choice between something with good sights and poor LaserGrip availability and poor sights but good LaserGrip availability, I would suggest choosing the good sights.

The LsserGrips are really nice under certain conditions. At dusk, a LaserGuard turns my Kel-Tec P3AT into a virtual tack driver at 60 feet. If the laser can be seen, it is like shooting in cheat mode.

However, an hour earlier in the day, the laser is completely useless. A good set of sights are useful under a greater variety of light conditions.

Much less can go wrong with a good set of sights. If you have tritium and the vial breaks or dims out before you realize it and replace it, you still have a black front sight post. If the battery dies or something internal breaks or stops working on a laser, you have no laser, and are stuck with whatever sights you hoped to improve with the laser.

[Redhat]

Given a choice between something with good sights and poor LaserGrip availability and poor sights but good LaserGrip availability, I would suggest choosing the good sights.

The LsserGrips are really nice under certain conditions. At dusk, a LaserGuard turns my Kel-Tec P3AT into a virtual tack driver at 60 feet. If the laser can be seen, it is like shooting in cheat mode.

However, an hour earlier in the day, the laser is completely useless. A good set of sights are useful under a greater variety of light conditions.

Much less can go wrong with a good set of sights. If you have tritium and the vial breaks or dims out before you realize it and replace it, you still have a black front sight post. If the battery dies or something internal breaks or stops working on a laser, you have no laser, and are stuck with whatever sights you hoped to improve with the laser.

I hear green shows up a little better?

Anyway lots of helpful info from everyone

[BillSWPA]

I hear green shows up a little better?

Anyway lots of helpful info from everyone

I do not have firsthand experience with green, so hopefully someone who does will correct anything I get wrong and quantify those things I cannot quantify.

Green will be more visible during the day, but I am unable to say how much more visible. It is also my understanding that green is so much more visible at night that not only will the dot be visible, but a green beam leading right back to the gun will also be visible. If the threat is a mugger who is 3-5 feet away from me, then that does not matter. If that happens to be the gun I am wearing when I investigate a bump in the night, or when the active shooter enters the movie theater, that visible beam might not be so desirable.

I have also read of greater temperature sensitivity and more demands on the battery by green lasers, but cannot quantify either.

Either red or green can be good at augmenting iron sights, but I would always want the best iron sights I can get first.

[spinmove_]

I’ve been pocket carrying a 442-1 for a short time now and I’ve been digging it and learning quite a bit. So far I’ve played with a couple of different grip options and carry it in an Aholster pocket holster. Painting the front sight orange has helped a lot, but the sights are still difficult to see.

Having said that, I’m tempted to pick up an LCR at some point as a backup to it as it has a better trigger out of the box, a replaceable front sight, and wears similar grips to what I now have on my J-frame out of the box.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mmc45414]

If not, you can change the characteristics of the J-frame substantially by changing grips. Here is me and my 360 with the big grips, hot and sweaty after helping a friend pull out bushes in her yard on one of the hottest days of the year:
40639

RFI: Sports Bras?...

Also, have you got a current trade price on your Shield? Might consider holding onto it so you can be sure.

[psalms144.1]

I've owned too many airweight J-frames to count, and currently own none of them. My only two small revolvers at this point are a 38 special LCR and an old Colt DS. When I decided I "needed" a new small round gun, I initially started searching for a no lock 642, then realized for less money I could get an uglier revolver that gave the ability to easily swap the front sight to something high visibility, has a MUCH better trigger, and GENERALLY has fewer reported QC issues on recent production.

I don't have a ton of rounds through my LCR yet (that's not it's purpose), but, I'm glad I made the decision I did. I can still pocket carry it in the front pocket of my LAPG Atlas shorts with no trouble in an A Holster backbone, and having the smaller Big Dot front sight makes a ton of difference.

It would be great if there were laser grips available for the LCR in a compact configuration, but, frankly, the last 642 I sold had LG on it, and I was underwhelmed in the extreme. Even with my failing eyesight, I'll take a high vis front sight over a laser any day for defensive purposes, but, YMMV.

As TGS stated, I found the airweight J frames to be flat abusive using our issued 158 gr +P LSWCHP ammo, and just barely shootable using 130 gr FMJ training ammo. The Ruger is still no fun shooting the +P stuff, but seems to shoot softer than the j-frame.

As many have stated, if you're not looking for an ultralight revolver for pocket carry or gym short beltless wear, I'd find an SP101, or jump on one of the deeply discounted Night Cobras that are out there right now.

[MK11]

I've had the Shield for a few years and it has been 100% reliable, my only complaint is it is too thin for me, even with Talon grips so I'm going to move away to a DA revolver which I think may offer a better defensive trigger and smaller pkg, especially for pocket carry.

My definition of "shootable" means I'm able to hit effectively with it at an acceptable speed and distance. I'm aware the trigger and sights are much different, but I'm willing to put in the work.

You said the LCR fills a niche, so I'd like to hear under what conditions you switch them out.

Thanks

Sure. The LCR gets the nod when pocket carry is more appropriate or if I'm carrying around the house or in very low key environments. I carry both appendix, the Shield in a JMCK and the LCR in High Noon Mr. Softy. The JMCK is great but even in a cheaper holster the shape of the LCR is more comfortable appendix for longer periods of time.

[Dagga Boy]

I would recommend the no lock Talo Performance Center 642. Wayne and I both have one. Here is some reading.

https://www.facebook.com/1199287713557074/posts/1341241196028391/

[Stephanie B]

I hear green shows up a little better?
It does. I watched a guy shoot a green-lasered Glock on an outdoor range in daylight. The dot was readily visible on the target.

I don't know if lasers have a deterrent value. But people know that the laser dot on them means "the bullet's gonna go in here." Maybe a few of those critters (to use LawDog's term (https://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/search?q=critter) for miscreants) rethink their intended course of action and go elsewhere.

[Redhat]

...As many have stated, if you're not looking for an ultralight revolver for pocket carry or gym short beltless wear, I'd find an SP101, or jump on one of the deeply discounted Night Cobras that are out there right now.

Thanks for the comments. I am set on finding a small revolver for the reasons you mentioned above. Here in South Central TX it would be much more suitable for me to carry in a variety of ways. I like the SP101 but it is just too big. I also like the Model 60 3", which no one has mentioned yet. Haven't seen the Night Cobra though.

[Redhat]

I would recommend the no lock Talo Performance Center 642. Wayne and I both have one. Here is some reading.

https://www.facebook.com/1199287713557074/posts/1341241196028391/

Thanks for the good read. I went down to Academy and looked at the Ruger and a 642 this morning. Their particular Ruger had some nasty looking burrs on the frame where the cylinder closes and didn't swing out or close smoothly. Otherwise it seemed okay. They keep trigger locks installed so I couldn't check the triggers. Interestingly, I held both in my hands and couldn't tell much difference in weight, both were really light.

I also checked out a S&W Bodyguard, which I guess is their answer to the LCR.

[Hizzie]

Well the Night Cobra is every bit as big as an SP101. It just offers a 6th shot.

The longer and/or heavier guns are no big deal aiwb or belt carry with regular pants/shorts. They are much more shootable than the stubby lightweight guns. I have pair of buddies that carry 3” LCRx’s aiwb quite easily. The 3” LCRx in DSG holster works for gym attire and running. The 3” LCRx and 60 Pro probably won’t be pocket carry-able. Either would be great choices for other than pocket carry.

[Redhat]

So I've been exploring a bit more...is the 640 too big / heavy for a pocket holster?

And for what it's worth, I have 3 revolvers, just not snubs

TIA

[psalms144.1]

So I've been exploring a bit more...is the 640 too big / heavy for a pocket holster?

And for what it's worth, I have 3 revolvers, just not snubs

TIAAn unloaded 640 weighs more than an unloaded Glock 19, so, too big? Maybe not. Too heavy? Yes, for my tastes.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I've read that folks think the added weight of the SS guns is unpleasant for pocket carry. I recall (correct me if wrong) that Mas Ayoob commented on that. I've found that the 642 and the 432 are OK for pocket carry. The 432 is best but you have to then get into the 32 HR mag vs. 38 ish debate.

[Redhat]

An unloaded 640 weighs more than an unloaded Glock 19, so, too big? Maybe not. Too heavy? Yes, for my tastes.

Ha, Thanks...I guess that's a yes, unless I plan on wearing suspenders.

[Mitch]

Ha, Thanks...I guess that's a yes, unless I plan on wearing suspenders.

That’s only part of it. I got a model 60 from the mid 80s recently and have pocket carried it. It doesn’t conceal as well as the lighter guns either because of the way it pulls on the pocket.

It took me about 2 days before I said fuck this and got a 340pd that was in the used case.

If you’re only going to have one J Frame I think the m&p 340 is worth it for the sights. If money is too tight for that, get a 642 but I’d spring for the performance center model DB mentioned.

I have no experience with the 340pd yet but I’m hopeful this is it for me for a true quick access NPE gun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ed L]

I've been carrying a 640 in a pocket holster since it came out with no problems. At that time there were no lower weight variants. So it never bothered me. +P loads are about the most that I can shoot even with the full weight gun, and they are still uncomfortable, with the exception of the Federal HST, which feels like a normal velocity load.

[BN]

my only complaint is it is too thin for me, even with Talon grips

My definition of "shootable" means I'm able to hit effectively with it at an acceptable speed and distance.

I'm a big revolver fan, however, I would suggest you shoot your shield side by side with a small revolver. I can shoot a small autoloader much better than a J-Frame size revolver. An Airweight S&W hurts me to shoot anything other than wadcutters. Read here on PF about how many carry wadcutters in their J-Frames because it is too hard to shoot well with +P ammo. If your Shield is too thin, I would wrap tape around the grip until it was thick enough. ;) Also, I'll bet the sights on your Shield are better.

[Redhat]

I've been carrying a 640 in a pocket holster since it came out with no problems. At that time there were no lower weight variants. So it never bothered me. +P loads are about the most that I can shoot even with the full weight gun, and they are still uncomfortable, with the exception of the Federal HST, which feels like a normal velocity load.

What holster have you been using?

[Redhat]

I'm a big revolver fan, however, I would suggest you shoot your shield side by side with a small revolver. I can shoot a small autoloader much better than a J-Frame size revolver. An Airweight S&W hurts me to shoot anything other than wadcutters. Read here on PF about how many carry wadcutters in their J-Frames because it is too hard to shoot well with +P ammo. If your Shield is too thin, I would wrap tape around the grip until it was thick enough. ;) Also, I'll bet the sights on your Shield are better.

Well just for my education, is there some reason I would need to use +p ammo?

[BillSWPA]

Well just for my education, is there some reason I would need to use +p ammo?

Even with +P, .38 special is a big step down in energy from 9mm. Going to standard pressure is yet another step down, in most cases reducing the energy below .380 levels.

Standard pressure .38 has a poor reputation for stopping attackers from the days when it was issued to many police officers.

I am a big believer in having a gun first and worrying about minimum power as a distant second, but I am having a hard time understanding the choice of a .38 over a slim 9mm unless weight needs to be reduced.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jamie]

Actually I think both a S&W Shield and a J Frame/LCR make a fine combo for carry.

I carried my Shield AIWB and pocket carried 640 (I've had since '92) for a number of years... at time a Glock Appendix, but it is much easier for me to conceal the Shield in an appendix carry.

It's nice to be able to have your hand clandestinely on a revolver in your pocket as Dagga Boy and others have mentioned, just in case. And I find the Shield to be a remarkably easy to shoot pistol for it's size.

Why not have both?

I do confess to have a pair of LCR's in my cargo shorts pockets as I type this. Liking this summer time carry setup at my age.

[psalms144.1]

I didn't want to get into the caliber discussion of this, but, now that it's been broached, I can't help but +1 it. For ME, my LCR serves one VERY niche roll - pocket carry as a BUG. In the summer, it's in the off side front pockets of my shorts when I'm kicking around, as a BUG to a small semi-auto (usually a G26, sometimes a S&W Shield). In the winter, the LCR is a coat pocket gun, something I can access quickly without having to dig through layers of cold weather gear to access. Other than that, as much as I love round guns, it serves no real purpose.

As a PRIMARY carry gun, it's hard for me to justify the LCR in any circumstance. If I NEEDED a deep concealment marginally effective pistol for up close SD, I'd take a Ruger LCP (or two), and at least have the ability to reload quickly from spare magazines.

If the thinness of the Shield's grip is an issue, I'd take a hard look at the Sig P365 - it's still small, but "feels" a lot better in my hand than my G43 ever did.

Again, YMMV, but, given my druthers, I'll take an autoloader any day and twice on Sunday for a serious use pistol over a revolver.

[Hizzie]

Darryl Bolke and Chuck Haggard are two notables that advocate carrying Federal Gold Medal Match wadcutters in lightweight snubs. Accurate, usually shoot to sights, low recoil, cut full .38” wound channel and penetrate deep enough to hit important stuff.

[Squib308]

the J frames or LCR are both great snubby CCW option. i like the J frames but my thumbs hit the cylinder lock under recoil. i've tried adjusting my grip but it occurs frequently enough for me to avoid J frames. if i didn't have this problem I would be all about them. i have an LCR in 38 sp that has run ~600 rounds without a hiccup. great pistol. my primary beef with the LCR is that the trigger return spring is a bit weak so it's easy to short stroke the trigger. one must completely let off the trigger to allow it to reset. on the contrary the J frame trigger mechanism has a more positive return spring and will reset easier.

for the LCR i swap the OEM rubber grip with the ruger boot grip. makes pocket carrying much easier. slightly harder to shoot but whatever. with regards to sights, i personally don't care about sights on a stubby. i learn to shoot it with natural POA so you could grind off the sights and i would still hit targets within 10 yards. YMMV.

[Jhp147]

I'm a big revolver fan, however, I would suggest you shoot your shield side by side with a small revolver. I can shoot a small autoloader much better than a J-Frame size revolver. An Airweight S&W hurts me to shoot anything other than wadcutters. Read here on PF about how many carry wadcutters in their J-Frames because it is too hard to shoot well with +P ammo. If your Shield is too thin, I would wrap tape around the grip until it was thick enough. ;) Also, I'll bet the sights on your Shield are better.
This is exactly my experience. I love my 642 (1991 model) and can't imagine not having it for ankle and pocket. I only use it for a couple of carry situations now. The Shield is SO much easier for me to hit something with, especially with the Trijicon HD sights and Hogue grip sleeve. The sights on the old 642s are pretty much cosmetic-maybe if I had a 340 or something, I'd spend money on the Apex kit and see what I could do. The gun is fun for about two cylinder fulls of carry loads outside of the 148s, even with the formerly Taurus grips I use. I'm sure there are revolver shooters that can get hits with it across a parking lot or a movie theater, but for me it would be a matter of luck. I can do it with the Shield.

[Dagga Boy]

Actually I think both a S&W Shield and a J Frame/LCR make a fine combo for carry.

I carried my Shield AIWB and pocket carried 640 (I've had since '92) for a number of years... at time a Glock Appendix, but it is much easier for me to conceal the Shield in an appendix carry.

It's nice to be able to have your hand clandestinely on a revolver in your pocket as Dagga Boy and others have mentioned, just in case. And I find the Shield to be a remarkably easy to shoot pistol for it's size.

Why not have both?

I do confess to have a pair of LCR's in my cargo shorts pockets as I type this. Liking this summer time carry setup at my age.

I am a big advocate of this and do it daily. AIWB semi and a snub in the pocket.

[O4L]

I don't think you will get much for trade in from the Shield. They can be found for $250 new online. Which is a deal in my opinion. I would keep it and pick up a snubbie for another carry option.

I usually carry a 640 J-frame but I still like having the Shield as an option for carry also. I like to carry both when I feel like having more fire power.

[Doc_Glock]

I didn't want to get into the caliber discussion of this, but, now that it's been broached, I can't help but +1 it. For ME, my LCR serves one VERY niche roll - pocket carry as a BUG. In the summer, it's in the off side front pockets of my shorts when I'm kicking around, as a BUG to a small semi-auto (usually a G26, sometimes a S&W Shield). In the winter, the LCR is a coat pocket gun, something I can access quickly without having to dig through layers of cold weather gear to access. Other than that, as much as I love round guns, it serves no real purpose.

As a PRIMARY carry gun, it's hard for me to justify the LCR in any circumstance. If I NEEDED a deep concealment marginally effective pistol for up close SD, I'd take a Ruger LCP (or two), and at least have the ability to reload quickly from spare magazines.

If the thinness of the Shield's grip is an issue, I'd take a hard look at the Sig P365 - it's still small, but "feels" a lot better in my hand than my G43 ever did.

Again, YMMV, but, given my druthers, I'll take an autoloader any day and twice on Sunday for a serious use pistol over a revolver.


I just shot my LCP back to back with a J frame and .38 LCR with 158 wadcutters and 9mm LCR. I shot the LCP shot so much better it was ridiculous and in the pocket it disappears, and weighs nearly nothing, which I can not say for the revolvers. Win, win, win for the stupid little Ruger.

[camsdaddy]

I just shot my LCP back to back with a J frame and .38 LCR with 158 wadcutters and 9mm LCR. I shot the LCP shot so much better it was ridiculous and in the pocket it disappears, and weighs nearly nothing, which I can not say for the revolvers. Win, win, win for the stupid little Ruger.
I would be interested in a similar comparison using 148 wadcutters.

[Doc_Glock]

I would be interested in a similar comparison using 148 wadcutters.

Are they typically lighter recoiling or heavier than 158?

This is what I used (semi wadcutter I guess).

https://www.sgammo.com/product/38-special-ammo/50-round-box-38-special-158-grain-swc-hp-prvi-partizan-handgun-line-ammo-pph

I am looking for commercial mouse fart loads in bulk but these were decently hot I thought. Not at all fun to shoot.

[41magfan]

I just shot my LCP back to back with a J frame and .38 LCR with 158 wadcutters and 9mm LCR. I shot the LCP shot so much better it was ridiculous and in the pocket it disappears, and weighs nearly nothing, which I can not say for the revolvers. Win, win, win for the stupid little Ruger.

Yep .... I shoot my SLR's (Stupid Little Ruger) about as well one-handed as I do a J-Frame with both. They've been 100% reliable, as well.

[camsdaddy]

Are they typically lighter recoiling or heavier than 158?

This is what I used (semi wadcutter I guess).

https://www.sgammo.com/product/38-special-ammo/50-round-box-38-special-158-grain-swc-hp-prvi-partizan-handgun-line-ammo-pph

I am looking for commercial mouse fart loads in bulk but these were decently hot I thought. Not at all fun to shoot.

Look at precision delta wadcutters. They are 148 grain. I find them lighter recoiling and more accurate than anything else I have shot in an air weight

[Ed L]

What holster have you been using?

I have several holsters, but I typically use an Uncle Mike's. I am not a fan of their holsters, but in this particular case it seems to work. It breaks up the outline and keeps the gun oriented vertically and in a position ready to draw. I practice drawing from the pocket at the range as well.

[RJ]

Darryl Bolke and Chuck Haggard are two notables that advocate carrying Federal Gold Medal Match wadcutters in lightweight snubs. Accurate, usually shoot to sights, low recoil, cut full .38” wound channel and penetrate deep enough to hit important stuff.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190801/cbc051c7fedbc0d698d2f0e02a1a8721.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duelist]

40696

Tuesday, I got in my head that it had been too long since I had a serious session with my 642, so I did the dot torture with the only range fodder I had around - 158gr RNL full power ammo. This happened at about the 35th round or so. I got through the drill, but it stopped being fun after about round 20.

Still bruised. Been carrying my G42 the last couple of days. The 642 or G42 or G26 - it doesn’t really matter which I pick for casual carry, but the G42 and 642 sure save some weight and bulk over the G26 or 19x. The G42 is lighter, smaller, more slender, carries more ammo, and has better sights than the 642. A 642 this old and hammered isn’t worth much, or I’d think about trading it for a .22 LCR or 43c. Or just trade it for an LCR .38. I’ll keep it (unless I get a deal I can’t refuse) because it works for ankle and some pockets better than anything else I’ve got, and I’ll hike with it loaded with snake shot as a backup to a semiautomatic.

[blues]

I'm prone to getting the webbing between thumb and forefinger bloodied up from time to time as well.

[10mmfanboy]

I give a plus 1 to the 3" lcr as well. Much more of a shooter, has adjustable rear sight, longer sight radius, more snot out of a 38. Definitely not a pocket pistol though, but still light.

I wanted to de-glock myself this year and go all hammer fired. I still have a g42 in my pocket always though lol. I have a lcr22 mag that rides in my left pocket for snakes since my dog stepped on a rattler this year. The trigger on the 22 mag feels like its 20# but I dig it. I get massive forearm pump after a cylinder dump. That trigger alone made me way better shooting everything I own. Only thing that sucks is the sight options don't regulate well with 22lr or 22 mag. LCR are ugly AF but has proven reliable even in 22 mag. I see ppl complain about them being less reliable, which is true to some extent in 22 caliber, but I bet I know what the problem is! I noticed that after you shoot about 12-24 rounds that even though the bullets look like they are flush in the cylinder, they are not. Have to rub your thumb around them and make sure they are seated all the way in the cylinder or you will start having the firing pin basically seat the bullet in on the first pull, but then fire on the second time around. That's because the bullets weren't fully seated in the cylinder.

Wow, that got way off subject! Anyway I like the looks and overall feel of a j frame but I like everything else about the ruger. Easily changeable front sight is huge to me. I'll probably be getting a 3" soon.

[Dagga Boy]

For those of you trying to apples to apples a semi auto pistol to a snub revolver...stop. They are not the same, they don’t work the same, they don’t shoot the same, and they are not good at the same things. Everything semi autos suck at the revolver excels at and vice versa. The places where the semi is at its worst and most likely to fail the small revolver lives in its happy place. Everything that is likely to be a negative with that same revolver is a positive for the semi-Auto.
With the recent “everybody wants to be a snub expert” I see over and over application of semi auto TTP’s to the snub. This comes from a lack of experience and historical perspective, but let’s just say those same mistakes were made decades ago in reverse.
Treat the snub as a totally independent and different weapon system or tool and you will better off. Or.....don’t. Listen to the “snubs are the New hotness” folks and you ll figure it out the hard way eventually when they have moved on to something else.

[blues]

For those of you trying to apples to apples a semi auto pistol to a snub revolver...stop. They are not the same, they don’t work the same, they don’t shoot the same, and they are not good at the same things. Everything semi autos suck at the revolver excels at and vice versa. The places where the semi is at its worst and most likely to fail the small revolver lives in its happy place. Everything that is likely to be a negative with that same revolver is a positive for the semi-Auto...
...Treat the snub as a totally independent and different weapon system or tool and you will better off. Or.....don’t. Listen to the “snubs are the New hotness” folks and you ll figure it out the hard way eventually when they have moved on to something else.

Good points, DB. I think those of us who started our LE careers carrying (large and small) revolvers daily and then transitioned to semi-autos were fortunate enough to realize the specific reasons why they wanted to keep revolvers around as a backup or occasional primary. Or why not, for those who chose not to for reasons based upon their experience.

Those who have to rely upon the judgments of others are, or will be, fortunate if they get most of their info here as opposed to glossy magazines and less than reliable sites on the web.

[Hizzie]

Treat the snub as a totally independent and different weapon system or tool and you will better off. Or.....don’t. Listen to the “snubs are the New hotness” folks and you ll figure it out the hard way eventually when they have moved on to something else.

That’ll just mean more nice snubs entering the used market for us to take advantage of.

[Redhat]

Even though some good info has been shared, this thread has wandered off course. Whether I should keep the Shield or not isn't the point. That's probably my fault for even mentioning it.

The actual thing I was / am looking for, is user thoughts on the Ruger and S&W models.

Thanks to all, I've learned a lot.

[MDFA]

Good points, DB. I think those of us who started our LE careers carrying (large and small) revolvers daily and then transitioned to semi-autos were fortunate enough to realize the specific reasons why they wanted to keep revolvers around as a backup or occasional primary. Or why not, for those who chose not to for reasons based upon their experience.

Those who have to rely upon the judgments of others are, or will be, fortunate if they get most of their info here as opposed to glossy magazines and less than reliable sites on the web.

Those of us that started out with round guns know the pros and cons. Remember the saying, Beware the old man in a profession where most men die young.

[Cecil Burch]

I am a big advocate of this and do it daily. AIWB semi and a snub in the pocket.


Me too. I tend to run my snub in my left pocket in this scenario, and I really, really like to also have a small fixed blade knife on the belt carried forward of the hips, and some OC spray in the right pocket. With that loadout (and the matching skill set), I can handle 99.5% of the plausible situations I would find as a private citizen. It also gives me tons of options, from simple de-escalation to full blown firefight.

[Gray Ghost]

... and I really, really like to also have a small fixed blade knife on the belt carried forward of the hips

What's your favorite knife for this application?

[Dagga Boy]

What's your favorite knife for this application?

Let’s maybe start a new thread for that in the right place.

[Cecil Burch]

Let’s maybe start a new thread for that in the right place.

agreed

[Cecil Burch]

.
With the recent “everybody wants to be a snub expert” I see over and over application of semi auto TTP’s to the snub. This comes from a lack of experience and historical perspective, but let’s just say those same mistakes were made decades ago in reverse.
Treat the snub as a totally independent and different weapon system or tool and you will better off. Or.....don’t. Listen to the “snubs are the New hotness” folks and you ll figure it out the hard way eventually when they have moved on to something else.


I meant to comment on this earlier.

DB is so right (as if my input was needed on that). I hosted Chuck Haggard last March for his Pocket Rockets class, and he showed so many little things about running revolvers, and especially SMALL revolvers, that most current shooters - those who started shooting much post 20th century - just don't know and have never even thought about. Like life, it is the little tweaks that tend to be the difference between success and massive failure.

[Ed L]

Me too. I tend to run my snub in my left pocket in this scenario, and I really, really like to also have a small fixed blade knife on the belt carried forward of the hips, and some OC spray in the right pocket. With that loadout (and the matching skill set), I can handle 99.5% of the plausible situations I would find as a private citizen. It also gives me tons of options, from simple de-escalation to full blown firefight.

Just curious, are you left handed?

If not I would think it would make more sense to have the snub in the pocket on the side of your strong hand. Even if you are also carrying an auto IWB, there are situations where you can have your hand on the pocket gun ready to draw, or more easily be able to talk your hand back to the pocket gun.

[Dagga Boy]

Just curious, are you left handed?

If not I would think it would make more sense to have the snub in the pocket on the side of your strong hand. Even if you are also carrying an auto IWB, there are situations where you can have your hand on the pocket gun ready to draw, or more easily be able to talk your hand back to the pocket gun.

Support side carry is actually much more common when carrying the J as a back up and you can still easily access the snub in a low profile response. I carried the same way most of my adult life, and only switched to the strong side pocket when living everyday in a very high crime area where having to access that snub was a very common thing rather than an anomaly and have since simply continued most of the time. I still will use a support side carry at times.

[Cecil Burch]

Just curious, are you left handed?

If not I would think it would make more sense to have the snub in the pocket on the side of your strong hand. Even if you are also carrying an auto IWB, there are situations where you can have your hand on the pocket gun ready to draw, or more easily be able to talk your hand back to the pocket gun.

As DB said, I think it makes the most sense to have a handgun easily and quickly accessible to either hand, rather than stacking everything on one side and giving up maximal choices.

And I have generally found that unless you have an incredibly developed sense of criminal behavior and a really robust skill set, having a hand in your pocket within 4-5 yards is not a good idea.

[Ed L]

Thanks. Makes sense, guys.

I am always interested in people's rationales for making choices and setting things up a certain way.