RFI: Fixed Blade Knife for Swimming/Water/Workout

[Cookie Monster]

Been playing at the lake with my little boys, looking for a blade I can clip to the waistband of shorts, stay concealed without a shirt. I can dry and oil the knife post water so not looking for stainless steel.

I remember there was a Bloodshark that had a deep concealment and BladeRigs as well. Anything I could just order now? Maybe under 2 bills?

Thank you.

[RevolverRob]

My first thought is the Spyderco Salt - https://amzn.to/311UzVa Fit the sheath with a Discreet Carry Concepts clip or an Ulticlip.

That might be a little big for your intended purposes thought?

My second thought was the Terrain 365 Element series, either the Alpha (https://www.knifeart.com/elementalpha.html) or the smaller Bravo (https://www.knifeart.com/elementbravohd.html). Again, fit the sheaths with DCC clips.

___

Regardless of if you can oil the blade regularly, why bother when there are rust-proof options out there? The Salt is H1 extremely corrosion resistant, in freshwater, you'll likely never have a problem, even if you neglect it. The Terrain 365 blades are made of dendritic cobalt (they call theirs "Terravantium") and will never rust. Be aware dendritic cobalt isn't as hard as steel and thus is more likely to roll or bend if you beat on it, but it also stays working edge sharp for basically ever and is easily resharpened with a diamond stone.

I think the Terrain 365 Bravo would be ideal with a deep carry clip, like the Ulticlip. It's not too big, works in reverse or forward grip equally well. I ASSume you'll drop this down in the appendix region? You can get the Bravo in a few paracord color choices, maybe one that matches your shorts in case it rides up?

[RJ]

I carried at least three cutting tools on me in my scuba diving days.

Sadly I’ve not been wet for a few years but I’d be interested to go look at some current offerings and see what I might suggest.

I will say stainless steel tools designed for constant salt water use aren’t, really, stainless in the sense that they won’t oxidize. They migh not rust if you get them into the rinse tank quickly after a dive lol.

The knives I ended up liking the best were easy to strip with no tools completely into separate pieces. My Wenoka Console knife came apart with a quarter, for example.


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[theJanitor]

Interested in the suggestions for this, as I'm near the water alot, with the kids. Concealing a fixed blade without a shirt seems like a tall order. I would guess a plastic handled spyderco folder,with sort of deep clip would be easier to conceal and more comfortable

[voodoo_man]

few questions...

1. $200 is your budget for this?
2. exact requirements for the blade? Utility? Social?
3. type of shorts/pants/etc you expect to carry with - belt/never a belt?
4. type of training you have already with blades?

[Erik]

Spyderco makes a few different salt models. I use one as a dive knife and it's been great.

https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/category/fixed-blades (https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/category/fixed-blades)

[RJ]

I ended up here:

https://www.amazon.com/Scubapro-Titanium-Diving-Snorkeling-Sports/dp/B0018A0CW2?tag=sddknife-20

Scubapro generally makes good gear. This blade is titanium, and might be pricier than you were looking for. But it is a fixed blade with clip. The line cutter is something you see on most dive knives; getting tangled in fishing line (typical dives are on wrecks, where the fish are, hence fishermen, hence lines) is a common issue under water. (They do work, as I can say from personal experience on a wreck off the coast of NC).

It's not clear that it disassembles completely, but a good rinse or better soak in fresh water should be ok.

[RevolverRob]

If you want to get your inner James Bond on - get you a Tekna (https://www.amazon.com/Tektite-Ocean-Stainless-Steel-Dagger/dp/B008U0U32M/ref=sr_1_3?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3dSisNfd4wIVP__jBx0Ve Q7TEAAYASAAEgJHJ_D_BwE&hvadid=267941479168&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9021740&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8256303933578088203&hvtargid=kwd-308691482615&hydadcr=9380_9621510&keywords=tekna+dive+knife&qid=1564525500&s=gateway&sr=8-3) and strap it to your leg like Bond in Thunderball.

[Cookie Monster]

few questions...

1. $200 is your budget for this?

$200 would be nice but I’d go $500 for knife, trainer, and kydex.


2. exact requirements for the blade? Utility? Social?

Realistically, utility with a social bent, not a tanto point but I am not that picky. Realistically, it would be for emergency use. Most likely scenario is a dog chewing on my arm or my kid, less likely mountain lion, even less two legged things.

Probably just be a magic metal stick that somehow makes me feel better.

3. type of shorts/pants/etc you expect to carry with - belt/never a belt?

Shorts with elastic and a drawstring, athletic synthetic REI type. No belt.

4. type of training you have already with blades?

Back in 2002 I took a 3 week intensive Kali class. I’ve taken a bunch of gun and a bunch of Medical and a bunch of fighting classes before the kids 4 years ago. My empty hand game is shit, my knife skills are probably close to that.

[Doc_Glock]

If you want to get your inner James Bond on - get you a Tekna (https://www.amazon.com/Tektite-Ocean-Stainless-Steel-Dagger/dp/B008U0U32M/ref=sr_1_3?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3dSisNfd4wIVP__jBx0Ve Q7TEAAYASAAEgJHJ_D_BwE&hvadid=267941479168&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9021740&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8256303933578088203&hvtargid=kwd-308691482615&hydadcr=9380_9621510&keywords=tekna+dive+knife&qid=1564525500&s=gateway&sr=8-3) and strap it to your leg like Bond in Thunderball.

I have loved those since I was a kid.

[SeriousStudent]

If you want to get your inner James Bond on - get you a Tekna (https://www.amazon.com/Tektite-Ocean-Stainless-Steel-Dagger/dp/B008U0U32M/ref=sr_1_3?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3dSisNfd4wIVP__jBx0Ve Q7TEAAYASAAEgJHJ_D_BwE&hvadid=267941479168&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9021740&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8256303933578088203&hvtargid=kwd-308691482615&hydadcr=9380_9621510&keywords=tekna+dive+knife&qid=1564525500&s=gateway&sr=8-3) and strap it to your leg like Bond in Thunderball.

I had one of those when I was sentenced to dive school. The senior instructor briefly made fun of it, then pulled one from his spare gear bag.

[Old Man Winter]

Here are some options ranging in size and quality but they fit your budget and can be deep sheathed fairly easy.


Mission MPU-A2
Esee izula
Tops / Al Mar mini sere
CRKT scrub
CRKT sting
Angler Knives swimmer
Cold Steel secret edge
Winkler neck knife (previous gen - ebay / find new old stock)
Winkler defensive dagger (ebay / find new old stock)
Ka-Bar Dozier skeleton knife
Ka-Bar rambler skeleton knife

[javemtr]

If you can get away with carrying a 9.5" overall length fixed blade, go for the Spyderco Waterway. It's made from LC200N steel and will offer fantastic edge retention (definitely outperforms Spyderco's H-1) combined with being near 100% rustproof. Search on youtube for some review videos, it was designed by a professional kayak fisherman.
If concealment is more important, there is currently no finer small fixed blade (in my opinion) than the Bawidamann Muninn. But remember that it is S35VN steel so it might require some care around saltwater.
The Waterway can be had for $130 at Knifecenter or BladeHQ, the Muninn will unfortunately break your $200 limit.

[rob_s]

I have a couple of the Spyderco Salt folders. I prefer a folder particularly in the situations you're talking about.
https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/category/salt-series

I first bought the tiniest little Salt version they sell, and every day I ran on the beach I'd walk into the ocean at the end to cool off, then walk home and jump in the pool to wash off the ocean. I'd leave the little guy on the pool deck until the next time I went running, and did the same thing. The knife never rusted, the action never seized up, never had a problem. Made me a believer and I bought a bigger model after that. Now I carry that one whenever we go do water activities (beach, paddle boarding, whatever) and I don't ever do anything to maintain or clean it. Zero issues over the last 7 or 8 years that I've owned it.

[voodoo_man]

answers

If you want a trainer to come with I'd recommend looking at the northman from amtacblades.com. Is a pocket sheath type setup although they have IWB sheaths available. That blade meets all your requirements.

On top of that, use in water is just par for course, make sure you use a decent lubricant on any blade taken into the water.

[RevolverRob]

I tend to agree with Rob_S and others who have suggested folders if you want deep concealment. A Spyderco Salt is pretty easy to add a zip-tie wave to and with practice, you should be able to deploy it easily using the waistband. I've carried waved folders IWB many times before and with practice, the draw stroke is quite easy.

You could pick up a Spyderco Salt 2 (basically a Delica) and a delica trainer for your $200 budget. Fit zip-ties to both, that way you can easily practice your drawstroke.

___

I wonder if you might be served by something different. Maybe something like the Shivworks Push Dagger (https://shivworkspg.com/product/shivworks-push-blade-and-push-blade-trainer-package-deal/)? You could fit a deep carry clip like the Discreet Carry Concepts Mod 5.1 (https://discreetcarryconcepts.com/Mod-5-1-HLR-Discreet-Gear-Clip%E2%84%A2-Behind-the-belt-SHS-p109538109) and easily get the grip just at or below your waistband. Draw stroke would be like an AIWB pistol. Such a blade limits your positional choices for both the holster and the way in which you use and deploy the knife, but it would give you plenty of retention, even in the water, and as long as you can throw a jab and/or straight punch, it will give you plenty of defensive options.

[javemtr]

Or he can go the 'Salt on steroids' way and get one of the Spyderco Caribbean folders. More substantial build due to G-10 handles and better steel (LC200N).

[03RN]

I had a Spyderco folder with the h1 steel in my pocket for years while working at sea. Zero rust. Kinda amazing actually.

[Oukaapie]

I’m not seeing a great way to do fixed blade here. I’d go small, very light folder with deep concealment aftermarket clip.

[Old Man Winter]

I’m not seeing a great way to do fixed blade here. I’d go small, very light folder with deep concealment aftermarket clip.

Here's the blade / sheath combo mentioned by the OP. You're not going to grab a Bloodshark within the $200 or $500 budgets mentioned previously however, you can accomplish something similar within the $200 budget.

40743

[Old Man Winter]

Here's a few examples of small fixed blades carried in a TD surf sheath. This works very well in the waistband, pockets, sleeve / cuff, watch straps, etc. Blade and sheath can be configured for use with or without a lanyard.

https://red1usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/tracker-dan-surf-sheath-pocket.jpg

https://red1usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/tracker-dan-surf-sheath-cuff.jpg

https://red1usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/tracker-dan-surf-sheath-wrist.jpg

https://red1usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/tracker-dan-surf-sheath-watch.jpg

[Oukaapie]

If that fixed blade is a must perhaps a Kershaw Guardian or similar with a bladerigs sheath?

[5pins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyTLcswZT60

[Navin Johnson]

So.....The important thing to remember is that non-stainless steel will rust in the tiny serations that are at the edge and make the knife dull....It has nothing to do with the side of the blade where we see rust.

In a live body of water meaning not a swimming pool the concerns.... at least for me.....are becoming entangled in organic or non-organic debris.....something that a knife might help me get away from.

A folder in a cargo pocket on a pair of swim trunks is a great way to carry a knife very discreetly if that's your desire.

A fixed blade knife in an ankle rig looks much less threatening than a tucked in fixed blade in a waistband with a little bit sticking out..... With the ankle rig you look like your real diver.

A folding knife is much easier to conceal looks less threatening and can be deployed relatively fast.

A serrated Spiderco salt is most excellent for cutting fibrous wet material in an emergency and if kept very sharp can be used as a reasonable self-defense tool. Also the blunter tip is a safety measure if used as emergency rescue equipment.... And can still stab quite well.

If a wave is important to you for one handed tactical opening or whatever people use them for get a VG-10 serrated endura or delica. They are rust proof enough and far better than using a zip tie in my experience.

Warncliff or near warncliff blade shapes like a delica, Pacific salt, salt, or Endura, are also far better for cutting in space..... If you don't understand that do some research it's pretty easy to find. The other option is a hawkbill which is fantastic for wet fibrous material cutting in an emergency situation and can still be used quite affectively as a self-defense tool.

Titanium knives were somewhat useful before the Advent of steals like h1 and LC200..... By those standards titanium is useless and very expensive.

The lighter the knife the easier to carry in a pair of swim trunks.

If the knife is primarily emergency rescue equipment meaning it could be used for rescue or self-defense.... by common standard terms......it should be a dedicated knife used for nothing else.

[RevolverRob]

I’d like to roll this back to the reality that the most important aspect of hiding a fixed blade is the way you setup the sheath. Kydex offers great retention and plenty of flexibility so does bolatron.

A Spyderco Enuff Salt, with a 2.75” blade and full grip would make an excellent knife. The sheath is sturdy, H1 is bery rust resistant (remember we’re talking fresh not salt water). Add a kydex strut and clip or a discreet carry concepts deep clip, add a lanyard, practice drawing. Get down with your bad self.

To demonstrate how simple this should be I slapped this together in ten minutes this morning. My spare clinch pick, a DCC clip, a bit of hardware from my hardware drawer.

41075

You can see it clipped in the pocket of my fancy ass Kuhl shorts here.

41076

It’s carrying a knife, not rocket science.

[Cookie Monster]

I’d like to roll this back to the reality that the most important aspect of hiding a fixed blade is the way you setup the sheath. Kydex offers great retention and plenty of flexibility so does bolatron.

A Spyderco Enuff Salt, with a 2.75” blade and full grip would make an excellent knife. The sheath is sturdy, H1 is bery rust resistant (remember we’re talking fresh not salt water). Add a kydex strut and clip or a discreet carry concepts deep clip, add a lanyard, practice drawing. Get down with your bad self.

To demonstrate how simple this should be I slapped this together in ten minutes this morning. My spare clinch pick, a DCC clip, a bit of hardware from my hardware drawer.

41075

You can see it clipped in the pocket of my fancy ass Kuhl shorts here.

41076

It’s carrying a knife, not rocket science.

I can send you an address so you can get that in the mail to me this weekend.

Thanks Rob!

[RevolverRob]

I can send you an address so you can get that in the mail to me this weekend.

Sure, it's just gonna cost you a replacement. I'll take my replacement in this size (https://empireoutfitter.com/collections/ban-tang/products/ban-tang-x-shivworks-dlc-3v-clinch-pick-knife-v-2-0), please. :eek:

It did occur to me earlier though - maybe the Benchmade SOCP (https://www.amazon.com/Benchmade-Dagger-Combo-Sheath-Skelentonized/dp/B008ND12TY/ref=pd_bxgy_200_img_3/133-0391159-4291209?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B008ND12TY&pd_rd_r=4bec8ebf-490e-44e2-b603-989764bf2e1a&pd_rd_w=DQDA6&pd_rd_wg=zl01k&pf_rd_p=a2006322-0bc0-4db9-a08e-d168c18ce6f0&pf_rd_r=AC0NTFHX87DT07BMRMTC&psc=1&refRID=AC0NTFHX87DT07BMRMTC)? - 440C isn't too bad for corrosion resistance, especially in fresh water. You get a solid, low profile sheath (the only thing exposed is the ring). Added retention with the ring, which isn't really my thing, but within the water I can see it being quite useful for finding and drawing the blade. And a trainer in that combo for $125. You can see some different carry options here: http://survinat.com/socp-dagger/

There is also a single-edged version with serrations if legal issues prevent you from carrying a double-edged blade.

[Joe S]

It did occur to me earlier though - maybe the Benchmade SOCP (https://www.amazon.com/Benchmade-Dagger-Combo-Sheath-Skelentonized/dp/B008ND12TY/ref=pd_bxgy_200_img_3/133-0391159-4291209?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B008ND12TY&pd_rd_r=4bec8ebf-490e-44e2-b603-989764bf2e1a&pd_rd_w=DQDA6&pd_rd_wg=zl01k&pf_rd_p=a2006322-0bc0-4db9-a08e-d168c18ce6f0&pf_rd_r=AC0NTFHX87DT07BMRMTC&psc=1&refRID=AC0NTFHX87DT07BMRMTC)? - 440C isn't too bad for corrosion resistance, especially in fresh water. You get a solid, low profile sheath (the only thing exposed is the ring). Added retention with the ring, which isn't really my thing, but within the water I can see it being quite useful for finding and drawing the blade. And a trainer in that combo for $125. You can see some different carry options here: http://survinat.com/socp-dagger/

There is also a single-edged version with serrations if legal issues prevent you from carrying a double-edged blade.

My understanding is that the "double​ edged" version doesn't have much of a real edge to it, so I would steer clear of that if you were concerned about actually cutting anything.

[spyderco monkey]

Been playing at the lake with my little boys, looking for a blade I can clip to the waistband of shorts, stay concealed without a shirt. I can dry and oil the knife post water so not looking for stainless steel.

I remember there was a Bloodshark that had a deep concealment and BladeRigs as well. Anything I could just order now? Maybe under 2 bills?

Thank you.

Spyderco Ark seems pretty much ideal for your requirement:

The ARK—or “Always Ready Knife™—is a purpose-designed personal-defense knife conceived by U.S. Army combat veteran John Shirley and his friend Sam Owens. While deployed to Afghanistan, Shirley learned that an alarming number of U.S. personnel were falling victim to sexual assault, particularly while showering. Drawing from his knowledge of the Japanese martial arts and with the help of Owens’ skills as a craftsman, they developed the ARK as a lightweight self-defense tool that can literally be carried anywhere.

The heart of the ARK is its deeply curved clip-point blade ground from H-1® steel—a nitrogen-based alloy that is completely immune to rust. The curved edge packs impressive cutting power into the compact blade and the clip-point profile ensures a strong, extremely sharp point. The ARK’s fiberglass-reinforced-nylon (FRN) handle is molded directly onto the tang and features Spyderco’s proven Bi-Directional Texturing™ pattern and an index-finger groove to guarantee a secure grip—even with wet hands.

To ensure universal carry, the ARK includes an injection-molded polymer neck sheath with a breakaway ball chain. Best of all, the ARK and its sheath together weigh only 2.0 ounces (57 grams), so you’ll hardly know it’s there—until you need it.


https://assets.brandfolder.com/oh00mv-861fm8-bn64g9/view@2x.png?v=1479742541

https://www.knifecenter.com/item/SPFB35PBK/spyderco-ark-always-ready-knife-neck-knife-h1-satin-plain-blade-black-frn-handles-polymer-sheath

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Hey, I dig that ARK. I could see leaving one clipped to my lifejacket all the time.

[spyderco monkey]

Hey, I dig that ARK. I could see leaving one clipped to my lifejacket all the time.

Yeah, Spyderco makes some of the best, most thought out knives. They all look a bit weird, but it all makes sense once they are in the hand.

None of their knives are designed for looks/sales. Its purely a function driven design process, and they make a lot of small batch knives for specialized applications.

In the case of the ARK, its literally designed for soldiers to defend against shower rape in Afghanistan, so its designed to remain firmly in the hand when your hands are covered in soap and water.

[BillSWPA]

That ARK is the nicest neck knife I have seen in a long time.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BillSWPA]

Yeah, Spyderco makes some of the best, most thought out knives. They all look a bit weird, but it all makes sense once they are in the hand.

None of their knives are designed for looks/sales. Its purely a function driven design process, and they make a lot of small batch knives for specialized applications.

In the case of the ARK, its literally designed for soldiers to defend against shower rape in Afghanistan, so its designed to remain firmly in the hand when your hands are covered in soap and water.

I am absolutely a fan of Spyderco, and they are one of 2 knife companies whose products I have repeatedly purchased over the past 2 decades. However, I am having a hard time seeing the function of the hole in a fixed blade knife. It would not even slow me down from buying one, but what is the function?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I would imagine that is just a stylistic flourish as their folder designs all used that instead of the stud and it became such a signature Spyderco feature...

I don't know if they still use the line "designed in the dark" but I remember they used to take pride in the "function over form" aesthetic. But mine have all been good knives. That one really appeals to me - it's like a seafaring Clinch Pick!

[1slow]

I would imagine that is just a stylistic flourish as their folder designs all used that instead of the stud and it became such a signature Spyderco feature...

I don't know if they still use the line "designed in the dark" but I remember they used to take pride in the "function over form" aesthetic. But mine have all been good knives. That one really appeals to me - it's like a seafaring Clinch Pick!

It would be possible to sharpen the back edge of the tip. Maybe they could make a reverse edge version ?

[Wondering Beard]

I am absolutely a fan of Spyderco, and they are one of 2 knife companies whose products I have repeatedly purchased over the past 2 decades. However, I am having a hard time seeing the function of the hole in a fixed blade knife. It would not even slow me down from buying one, but what is the function?

It's just part of the branding; the hole in their folders is what got them to be so well known, now they put it on nearly everything because it says "spyderco!". Frankly it affects nothing in the use of the knife.

About the ARK, I have one and it's an excellent little knife. However, it's much more of a cutter than a stabber once you have it in hand (which may work really well for the OP and his use) due to the angle of the point compared to the center of the grip. The sheath I just can't stand; it's too big and the detent/thumb safety is a pain to operate. I understand its purpose (keeping the knife secure while on the neck) but a proper friction fit kydex sheath would have done the job just as well.

[Wondering Beard]

It would be possible to sharpen the back edge of the tip. Maybe they could make a reverse edge version ?

I imagine it's possible but the designer of the knife is (per the description) a classical FMA practitioner that thinks much more in terms of cutting than stabbing, as can be seen by the point to grip angle, and the company may balk at changing the entire philosophy behind that knife.

[1slow]

I imagine it's possible but the designer of the knife is (per the description) a classical FMA practitioner that thinks much more in terms of cutting than stabbing, as can be seen by the point to grip angle, and the company may balk at changing the entire philosophy behind that knife.

In a small knife the point driven methodology Craig Douglas teaches ( stab in cut/rip out ) makes more sense to me.

I like big Bowie’s, the slash, back cut etc... methodology derived from European saber work seems effective with a
9” - 12” blade. Dis-arming takes a whole new meaning!

I like point based methodology better with small blades.

I believe a lot of FMA seems based on machetes etc....

[RevolverRob]

I imagine it's possible but the designer of the knife is (per the description) a classical FMA practitioner that thinks much more in terms of cutting than stabbing, as can be seen by the point to grip angle, and the company may balk at changing the entire philosophy behind that knife.

The bio said Japanese Martial Arts. Which are based more on grappling and point-driven work than FMA. Most Japanese short blade work, like tantojutsu, use the edge to parry and the point to attack and riposte. It's less edge-driven more point-driven.

I'm not seeing the point-to-grip angle you're discussing. The blade shape is a clip point, but the tip itself clips upward slightly, which is common in blades held in forward grip meant for point driven work. For instance, a clinch pick held in forward grip the tip is angled up ever so slightly.

[Wondering Beard]

The bio said Japanese Martial Arts. Which are based more on grappling and point-driven work than FMA. Most Japanese short blade work, like tantojutsu, use the edge to parry and the point to attack and riposte. It's less edge-driven more point-driven.

I'll admit, I could have gotten that one wrong, yet I remember reading an interview with the designer (of course somewhere I can't find again) where he talked more about FMA than Japanese arts.


I'm not seeing the point-to-grip angle you're discussing. The blade shape is a clip point, but the tip itself clips upward slightly, which is common in blades held in forward grip meant for point driven work. For instance, a clinch pick held in forward grip the tip is angled up ever so slightly.

In my hands, the point is even more angled upwards compared to a CP, I'd say it's nearly Persian in its angle. If you look at the photos, a page or so back, you'll notice that the handle isn't in a straight line with the blade. It's as if you had a straight handle and clipped point blade and you gave it to some circus strongman of the past and he bent it slightly right at the choil. The sheathed knife photo shows it best.

It's still an excellent little knife that, if you want to use it for defensive purposes can be used for point driven work, but the angle is not quite as good as a CP for that work. Of course, all that depends on one's natural wrist angle. I think some time ago, you mentioned that the CP gripped blade up was harder to make work for you than in a reverse grip (while it was the opposite for me). If I remember that exchange correctly, the ARK would be even worse for you in a hammer grip.

[BillSWPA]

It's just part of the branding; the hole in their folders is what got them to be so well known, now they put it on nearly everything because it says "spyderco!". Frankly it affects nothing in the use of the knife.

About the ARK, I have one and it's an excellent little knife. However, it's much more of a cutter than a stabber once you have it in hand (which may work really well for the OP and his use) due to the angle of the point compared to the center of the grip. The sheath I just can't stand; it's too big and the detent/thumb safety is a pain to operate. I understand its purpose (keeping the knife secure while on the neck) but a proper friction fit kydex sheath would have done the job just as well.

I am well aware of the branding. As an intellectual property lawyer, I think they have done a good job of keeping their product design consistent and recognizable. I was just pointing out that not "everything" is purely functional.

Your comments on the sheath are important. I have believed for a long time that the sheath design is more important than the design of the knife itself when evaluating the usefulness of a fixed blade.

[JHC]

Spyderco Ark seems pretty much ideal for your requirement:

The ARK—or “Always Ready Knife™—is a purpose-designed personal-defense knife conceived by U.S. Army combat veteran John Shirley and his friend Sam Owens. While deployed to Afghanistan, Shirley learned that an alarming number of U.S. personnel were falling victim to sexual assault, particularly while showering. Drawing from his knowledge of the Japanese martial arts and with the help of Owens’ skills as a craftsman, they developed the ARK as a lightweight self-defense tool that can literally be carried anywhere.

The heart of the ARK is its deeply curved clip-point blade ground from H-1® steel—a nitrogen-based alloy that is completely immune to rust. The curved edge packs impressive cutting power into the compact blade and the clip-point profile ensures a strong, extremely sharp point. The ARK’s fiberglass-reinforced-nylon (FRN) handle is molded directly onto the tang and features Spyderco’s proven Bi-Directional Texturing™ pattern and an index-finger groove to guarantee a secure grip—even with wet hands.

To ensure universal carry, the ARK includes an injection-molded polymer neck sheath with a breakaway ball chain. Best of all, the ARK and its sheath together weigh only 2.0 ounces (57 grams), so you’ll hardly know it’s there—until you need it.


https://assets.brandfolder.com/oh00mv-861fm8-bn64g9/view@2x.png?v=1479742541

https://www.knifecenter.com/item/SPFB35PBK/spyderco-ark-always-ready-knife-neck-knife-h1-satin-plain-blade-black-frn-handles-polymer-sheath

Pretty neat. Do you prefer the serrated or plain edge for general purpose? Do you like one or the other for one or another specialized purpose?

[RevolverRob]

Of course, all that depends on one's natural wrist angle. I think some time ago, you mentioned that the CP gripped blade up was harder to make work for you than in a reverse grip (while it was the opposite for me). If I remember that exchange correctly, the ARK would be even worse for you in a hammer grip.

Yea, reverse grip works better for me. But that's partly because years ago, the way I was taught to throw jabs, makes a CP in forward grip useless for jabs and instead requires an arcing hook motion. Despite being right handed, I usually box in Southpaw stance so hooking with with the right is a weaker move, compared to a left hook or straight. I've just adopted a tendency to shift to orthodox and use my right for power punches, when the blade is in forward grip. Loading up and using a shovel hook or straight-cross works well in orthodox stance + forward grip. The casting punch can work well in forward grip from southpaw stance, since you're basically just rolling the shoulder and flicking the arm forward. Don't roll the hand over to hit with the knuckles and boom, you're just swinging blade right on in.

[spyderco monkey]

I am absolutely a fan of Spyderco, and they are one of 2 knife companies whose products I have repeatedly purchased over the past 2 decades. However, I am having a hard time seeing the function of the hole in a fixed blade knife. It would not even slow me down from buying one, but what is the function?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The thumb hole is Spyderco's trademark. They actually were the first company to introduce what we now consider to be the 'EDC/Tactical folder,' with the first 1 hand opening pocket knife to also incorporate a pocket clip. This was their 1981 'Worker' model.

In the case of the ARK, the thumb hole itself is stylistic. However the 'hump' that makes room for the thumb hole is absolutely functional, as it provides a thumb rest. The thumb rest hump is one of my favorite aspects of their knives.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0046/2281/1208/products/SPFB35SBK_LS2R_1980x.jpg?v=1559163571

[spyderco monkey]

Pretty neat. Do you prefer the serrated or plain edge for general purpose? Do you like one or the other for one or another specialized purpose?

Well the two biggest factors are:

-Will this knife be used around Water?
-Does the user know how to sharpen knives? And if so, how do they sharpen?

If the knife is being used around / under water, then I like serrations. There's something about 'wet' material, especially things like wet rope, that can make Plain Edge(PE) kind of 'slide off' the material as opposed to cutting it. SE, due to the little spikes, tends to grab into even whet materials and help initiate the cutting process, preventing the blade from sliding off wet materials. Obviously PE will cut wet materials, but its a faster and more reliable process with the SE.

When I got my cousin a knife for his entrance into a diving based military, I made sure it was a SE Pacific Salt for that reason.

The other factor is, does this user know how to sharpen knives? If the answer is No, then SE all the way. A SE knife will be able to still cut through materials quickly and aggressively for years in between sharpenings. I got my friend a SE Native when he went off for a 1 year trip to India for that reason. When I caught up to him a few years later, he was still carrying the knife. It was 'dull' by my knife OCD standards, but for him, it was still easily cutting through boxes / cord/ food, and he still though it was quite 'sharp.'

Likewise, I've bumped into other friends and acquanitences carrying PE knives that were just straight up Dull AF- like as dull as a typical $1 kitchen knife. They don't know how to sharpen, but since the knife can still open a amazon box, its still 'sharp'...they would have been much better off with a SE knife.

The last wildcard is the H1 steel used in the ARK. H1 steel is 'work hardening,' which means that the process of grinding the knife actually hardens the edge. The result is that PE H1 knives have a RC hardness of ~57, while the extra work hardening of grinding the Serrations bumps the SE H1 hardness to RC 63-64. So the SE H1 will hold its edge much longer between sharpenings.


Now for the flipside, my personal use.

I don't work around/under water. And I know how to sharpen knives to 'hair popping' levels of sharpness, and I make sure to touch up my knife every few months so they are always sharp.

For me, its PE all day everyday. On dry land, a properly sharpened PE blade with good blade geometry (full flat ground with thin edge) will outperform SE. The PE knife glides more easily through thick cardboard, and slices through thinner cardboard and plastic without tearing or snagging.

More importantly, if you know how to sharpen, a PE blade is much, much easier to sharpen and maintain. 2 minutes on a Lansky V sharpener will return a PE blade to hair shaving sharpness. With SE, you need a Spyderco sharpmaker, and even then the SE will never really quite get back to 'factory fresh' sharpness. For that reason I typically will just use a SE blade for ~ a year then send it back to Spyderco to have it resharpened by the factory for $5.

[BillSWPA]

On the issue of serrations, I have seen a court opinion from Ohio listing serrations as one of many factors used to determine whether a knife is designed for use as a weapon, making it illegal to carry. While I think anyone who understands knives could easily argue the incorrectness of this position, this factor does need to be considered when selecting a knife in certain jurisdictions.

I have often carried knives with serrated or partially serrated edges, but lately find that I prefer plain edges. I do know how to sharpen a knife but cannot claim to be particularly good at it.

[JHC]

Well the two biggest factors are:

-Will this knife be used around Water?
-Does the user know how to sharpen knives? And if so, how do they sharpen?

If the knife is being used around / under water, then I like serrations. There's something about 'wet' material, especially things like wet rope, that can make Plain Edge(PE) kind of 'slide off' the material as opposed to cutting it. SE, due to the little spikes, tends to grab into even whet materials and help initiate the cutting process, preventing the blade from sliding off wet materials. Obviously PE will cut wet materials, but its a faster and more reliable process with the SE.

When I got my cousin a knife for his entrance into a diving based military, I made sure it was a SE Pacific Salt for that reason.

The other factor is, does this user know how to sharpen knives? If the answer is No, then SE all the way. A SE knife will be able to still cut through materials quickly and aggressively for years in between sharpenings. I got my friend a SE Native when he went off for a 1 year trip to India for that reason. When I caught up to him a few years later, he was still carrying the knife. It was 'dull' by my knife OCD standards, but for him, it was still easily cutting through boxes / cord/ food, and he still though it was quite 'sharp.'

Likewise, I've bumped into other friends and acquanitences carrying PE knives that were just straight up Dull AF- like as dull as a typical $1 kitchen knife. They don't know how to sharpen, but since the knife can still open a amazon box, its still 'sharp'...they would have been much better off with a SE knife.

The last wildcard is the H1 steel used in the ARK. H1 steel is 'work hardening,' which means that the process of grinding the knife actually hardens the edge. The result is that PE H1 knives have a RC hardness of ~57, while the extra work hardening of grinding the Serrations bumps the SE H1 hardness to RC 63-64. So the SE H1 will hold its edge much longer between sharpenings.


Now for the flipside, my personal use.

I don't work around/under water. And I know how to sharpen knives to 'hair popping' levels of sharpness, and I make sure to touch up my knife every few months so they are always sharp.

For me, its PE all day everyday. On dry land, a properly sharpened PE blade with good blade geometry (full flat ground with thin edge) will outperform SE. The PE knife glides more easily through thick cardboard, and slices through thinner cardboard and plastic without tearing or snagging.

More importantly, if you know how to sharpen, a PE blade is much, much easier to sharpen and maintain. 2 minutes on a Lansky V sharpener will return a PE blade to hair shaving sharpness. With SE, you need a Spyderco sharpmaker, and even then the SE will never really quite get back to 'factory fresh' sharpness. For that reason I typically will just use a SE blade for ~ a year then send it back to Spyderco to have it resharpened by the factory for $5.

Dayim what a spectacular reply. Thank you!

I have a Spyderco Sharpmaker and that's all I've used for many many years but I've very few SE currently. Just one partially SE Endura presently, and the Spyderco kit gets my PE blades to shave patches into my forearm for almost all of my knives, save an old Cold Steel Recon that must have a saber or chisel! grind. ;) I think I can assume you rate the Lansky V sharpener higher for PE.

This was really interesting and helpful. Did the original designer for the "shower" use case start with SE cause of water and possibly web gear? ;) Serious question although it sounds tongue in cheek.

Thanks again.

[JHC]

The thumb hole is Spyderco's trademark. They actually were the first company to introduce what we now consider to be the 'EDC/Tactical folder,' with the first 1 hand opening pocket knife to also incorporate a pocket clip. This was their 1981 'Worker' model.

In the case of the ARK, the thumb hole itself is stylistic. However the 'hump' that makes room for the thumb hole is absolutely functional, as it provides a thumb rest. The thumb rest hump is one of my favorite aspects of their knives.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0046/2281/1208/products/SPFB35SBK_LS2R_1980x.jpg?v=1559163571

I'm thinking of ordering a couple/few of these come Christmas. I really like that grip/handle design as well.

[spyderco monkey]

Dayim what a spectacular reply. Thank you!

I have a Spyderco Sharpmaker and that's all I've used for many many years but I've very few SE currently. Just one partially SE Endura presently, and the Spyderco kit gets my PE blades to shave patches into my forearm for almost all of my knives, save an old Cold Steel Recon that must have a saber or chisel! grind. ;) I think I can assume you rate the Lansky V sharpener higher for PE.

This was really interesting and helpful. Did the original designer for the "shower" use case start with SE cause of water and possibly web gear? ;) Serious question although it sounds tongue in cheek.

Thanks again.

No problem, I'm happy for any chance to get to use my arcane knowledge of the spyderco catalog in conversation ;-)

I think since you have the Sharpmaker, go for the SE model. H1 really shines in SE, and the sort of swept curve of the ARK's blade is a optimal profile for SE, as you can put a lot of the edge into the material at once and really grab onto it with the SE while just pulling the knife towards you; I imagine that thing will be chainsaw on boxes for that reason.

I also like SE for smaller blades in general. The serrations add ~25% more 'cutting edge' then the identical PE blade due to the sharpened curves of the scallops. Combined with the just raw cutting power of serrations, it makes these smaller knives cut more like a big knife. The Spyderco Cricket, for example, is a cutting powerhouse in SE, despite being a money clip sized pocket knife.

From what I can tell the original designers started with PE blades, and then Spyderco offered a SE based on their extensive experience with SE blades (Spyderco was the first to offer a SE folding knife, and invented that style of SE pattern.) Pretty much all of their knives designed for use around water are offered in SE.

This is the initial prototype, which is both PE and has a less sophisticated sheath:
https://spydercollector.wordpress.com/2014/03/02/spyderco-2014-production-prototype-sam-owens-ark/

[BillSWPA]

Dayim what a spectacular reply. Thank you!

I have a Spyderco Sharpmaker and that's all I've used for many many years but I've very few SE currently. Just one partially SE Endura presently, and the Spyderco kit gets my PE blades to shave patches into my forearm for almost all of my knives, save an old Cold Steel Recon that must have a saber or chisel! grind. ;) I think I can assume you rate the Lansky V sharpener higher for PE.

This was really interesting and helpful. Did the original designer for the "shower" use case start with SE cause of water and possibly web gear? ;) Serious question although it sounds tongue in cheek.

Thanks again.

Cold Steel will resharpen the knife for no more than the cost of shipping if I recall correctly.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RevolverRob]

The other factor is, does this user know how to sharpen knives? If the answer is No, then SE all the way.

I concur with you for the most part.

I do wish more makers would do plain-edge folders with a 20º bevel, simply because that is what most kitchen knives are set at. Lots of people have carbide kitchen knife sharpeners in their house (including me). A few licks through a carbide sharpener will touch an edge up to make it work-level sharp in moments. Many people would do just fine with that level of sharpness, where it isn't unsafe but isn't hair popping and can maintain that level of sharpness rather easily.

This is also why I don't care much for harder stainless steels like S30V and S35V on carry knives for the average person. I have a bunch of diamond stones and strops to get blades scary sharp. The average person does not. S30V would take just short of a decade to sharpen from dull to sharp with a carbide-type sharpener. Where as it takes a few minutes with a diamond stone.

I have a couple of folders I've reprofiled to hold a secondary bevel to 20º on and they work great for just about every task I normally need a blade for.

[Elkhitman]

4132441325

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Who makes those?

[Elkhitman]

Who makes those?


41334

[JHC]

Well the two biggest factors are:

-Will this knife be used around Water?
-Does the user know how to sharpen knives? And if so, how do they sharpen?

If the knife is being used around / under water, then I like serrations. There's something about 'wet' material, especially things like wet rope, that can make Plain Edge(PE) kind of 'slide off' the material as opposed to cutting it. SE, due to the little spikes, tends to grab into even whet materials and help initiate the cutting process, preventing the blade from sliding off wet materials. Obviously PE will cut wet materials, but its a faster and more reliable process with the SE.

When I got my cousin a knife for his entrance into a diving based military, I made sure it was a SE Pacific Salt for that reason.

The other factor is, does this user know how to sharpen knives? If the answer is No, then SE all the way. A SE knife will be able to still cut through materials quickly and aggressively for years in between sharpenings. I got my friend a SE Native when he went off for a 1 year trip to India for that reason. When I caught up to him a few years later, he was still carrying the knife. It was 'dull' by my knife OCD standards, but for him, it was still easily cutting through boxes / cord/ food, and he still though it was quite 'sharp.'

Likewise, I've bumped into other friends and acquanitences carrying PE knives that were just straight up Dull AF- like as dull as a typical $1 kitchen knife. They don't know how to sharpen, but since the knife can still open a amazon box, its still 'sharp'...they would have been much better off with a SE knife.

The last wildcard is the H1 steel used in the ARK. H1 steel is 'work hardening,' which means that the process of grinding the knife actually hardens the edge. The result is that PE H1 knives have a RC hardness of ~57, while the extra work hardening of grinding the Serrations bumps the SE H1 hardness to RC 63-64. So the SE H1 will hold its edge much longer between sharpenings.


Now for the flipside, my personal use.

I don't work around/under water. And I know how to sharpen knives to 'hair popping' levels of sharpness, and I make sure to touch up my knife every few months so they are always sharp.

For me, its PE all day everyday. On dry land, a properly sharpened PE blade with good blade geometry (full flat ground with thin edge) will outperform SE. The PE knife glides more easily through thick cardboard, and slices through thinner cardboard and plastic without tearing or snagging.

More importantly, if you know how to sharpen, a PE blade is much, much easier to sharpen and maintain. 2 minutes on a Lansky V sharpener will return a PE blade to hair shaving sharpness. With SE, you need a Spyderco sharpmaker, and even then the SE will never really quite get back to 'factory fresh' sharpness. For that reason I typically will just use a SE blade for ~ a year then send it back to Spyderco to have it resharpened by the factory for $5.


BTW a few weeks back and bought the serrated version (I do have the Spyderco sharpmaker) of that Spyderco neck knife. It's very cool. It's smaller/lighter than I imagined it to be. Thanks again for all the info.

[javemtr]

BTW a few weeks back and bought the serrated version (I do have the Spyderco sharpmaker) of that Spyderco neck knife. It's very cool. It's smaller/lighter than I imagined it to be. Thanks again for all the info.
Can you give your impressions of the ARK sheath? It seems incredibly bulky for such a sleek little knife.

[JHC]

Can you give your impressions of the ARK sheath? It seems incredibly bulky for such a sleek little knife.

Well constructed and very flat. It doesn't strike me as bulky, probably because it is so flat. It is very secure with a small paddle to disengage a "lock" securing the blade in the sheath. I'd like to figure out a way to configure it for belt carry some time.

[revolvergeek]

Well the two biggest factors are:

-Will this knife be used around Water?
-Does the user know how to sharpen knives? And if so, how do they sharpen?

If the knife is being used around / under water, then I like serrations. There's something about 'wet' material, especially things like wet rope, that can make Plain Edge(PE) kind of 'slide off' the material as opposed to cutting it. SE, due to the little spikes, tends to grab into even whet materials and help initiate the cutting process, preventing the blade from sliding off wet materials. Obviously PE will cut wet materials, but its a faster and more reliable process with the SE.

When I got my cousin a knife for his entrance into a diving based military, I made sure it was a SE Pacific Salt for that reason.

The other factor is, does this user know how to sharpen knives? If the answer is No, then SE all the way. A SE knife will be able to still cut through materials quickly and aggressively for years in between sharpenings. I got my friend a SE Native when he went off for a 1 year trip to India for that reason. When I caught up to him a few years later, he was still carrying the knife. It was 'dull' by my knife OCD standards, but for him, it was still easily cutting through boxes / cord/ food, and he still though it was quite 'sharp.'

Likewise, I've bumped into other friends and acquanitences carrying PE knives that were just straight up Dull AF- like as dull as a typical $1 kitchen knife. They don't know how to sharpen, but since the knife can still open a amazon box, its still 'sharp'...they would have been much better off with a SE knife.

The last wildcard is the H1 steel used in the ARK. H1 steel is 'work hardening,' which means that the process of grinding the knife actually hardens the edge. The result is that PE H1 knives have a RC hardness of ~57, while the extra work hardening of grinding the Serrations bumps the SE H1 hardness to RC 63-64. So the SE H1 will hold its edge much longer between sharpenings.


Now for the flipside, my personal use.

I don't work around/under water. And I know how to sharpen knives to 'hair popping' levels of sharpness, and I make sure to touch up my knife every few months so they are always sharp.

For me, its PE all day everyday. On dry land, a properly sharpened PE blade with good blade geometry (full flat ground with thin edge) will outperform SE. The PE knife glides more easily through thick cardboard, and slices through thinner cardboard and plastic without tearing or snagging.

More importantly, if you know how to sharpen, a PE blade is much, much easier to sharpen and maintain. 2 minutes on a Lansky V sharpener will return a PE blade to hair shaving sharpness. With SE, you need a Spyderco sharpmaker, and even then the SE will never really quite get back to 'factory fresh' sharpness. For that reason I typically will just use a SE blade for ~ a year then send it back to Spyderco to have it resharpened by the factory for $5.

An excellent post that covered pretty much everything that I was going to write. A few additional points...

I used to be a fanatic for partially serrated blades, but these days I rarely use them. Now days I much prefer a plain edged blade, but if I want serrations I want them the entire edge. My father has carried around an old plastic clip Spyderco Rescue for over 20 years as his rough jobs knife to back up a Victorinox, and he might want me sharpen it once a year.

I have a Spyderco Sharpmaker that is probably 26-27 years old, and shows it, but still works great. I keep it at the office for touching up knives that are still pretty sharp (everybody there brings me their pocketknives to sharpen).

The best trick that I every learned (don't remember where I got it from) was to use a sharpie on the edge several millimeters back up the blade so that you can easily see where you are actually removing steel.