Is it time to rethink the "support finger on the front of the trigger guard" hold?

[RAM Engineer]

I know the subject hold is considered as obsolete as the old "cup and saucer" hold from the seventies, but is there a case to be made for it? In this day and age, as the support hand grips get higher and higher, the only way to move it (the support hand) farther up the gun is to put a finger on the front of the (hopefully recurved) trigger guard. So is this really as dumb as we've been thinking?

This is just a thought experiment at this time since I've not had the opportunity to shoot much lately with getting my house ready to sell. But YOU guys have probably already considered this option and either discarded it as useless (or worse) or decided there is a place for it. So, what say you?

[spinmove_]

Ask Eric Grauffel and Yong Lee what they think of hooking the finger around the trigger guard.


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[rjohnson4405]

If it works for your type of gun and you're okay with it being a one gun solution then rock on. There are some advantages. But for guns with rounded or even different trigger guards it can make a consistent grip a problem.

[JAD]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12153-Support-index-finger-going-to-front-of-Glock-trigger-guard

Excellent thread on the topic.

[BehindBlueI's]

I won't say it won't work for anybody, but most folks will probably find it harder to shoot at the levels they are used to shooting at with the more traditional grip. I briefly experimented with it when I was "learning to shoot again" after nerve damage left me with reduced sensation and strength in my left hand. I thought perhaps the leverage might help me control recoil better and provide more feedback to me. It didn't. I could manage to isolate my trigger finger and not "steer" with the trigger guard, but it slowed me down.

If you have a gun, a timer, and a target you're most of the way to finding out how it will work for you and your gun, though.

[Dave T]

I went through Copper's 250 Basic class at Gunsite in late 1977. Then I was invited back as a guest instructor for another 250 class in '78. In 1981 when I became my department's chief firearms instructor and was tasked with completely revamping our firearms training, I reached back to those 250 classes at Gunsite and used Cooper's teaching and concepts to for our training.

God bless him but Cooper was a bit set in his ways. He was very much a, hold it this way and stand that way kind of instructor. I quickly found that the 400 armed personal in my department were all different. The 105# female deputy couldn't hold a gun in the "approved" grip because her hands were too small. The 250# power lifting deputy couldn't manage the "proper Weaver stance" because his chest muscles kept him from any stance but a modified Isosceles. And so I found it to be the same case with finger forward. Generally it isn't recommended or even necessary, but...

I have a very good friend of over 40 years who has huge hands. He makes a fist and it looks like a canned ham. For him, when shooting a Government Model there is not enough room on the grip to get a solid hold, unless he puts his weak hand index finger in front of the trigger guard, allowing him a higher and more solid grip on the gun. Way back when the first Para frames came out he jumped on them and said it was the first time he felt like he had control of the gun.

He even attended Gunsite under Cooper, a couple years after I went. He and Jeff talked about finger forward and although Cooper disapproved of it in general, he conceded my friend's hand size made it a viable option. Guess even Jeff Cooper mellowed a little with age. (smile)

Dave

[DeLeo]

Hi, I'm deleo, and I'm new to this forum. This subject greatly interests me as circumstances have forced me to consider gripping trigger guard with forefinger of weak hand. I've had surgery on my right arm (thank goodness I'm lefty) and the net result is my right hand and arm are considerably weaker then my left. I have been experimenting with both a traditional grip and a modified grip with forefinger of weak hand on trigger guard. So far the results favor me using the modified grip. My groupings are tighter, not to imply that my groups are are unusually tight, and when using the traditional grip I tend to shoot low and to the right. I am continuing to use both until I'm sure that bad technique is not interfering with the conventional grip.

[ViniVidivici]

Welcome, DeLeo!

I say to each their own. Whatever works best for the individual shooter.

Me, I've experimented with it, and never found it useful. Often found the finger slipping off the front of the trigger guard during rapid fire.

[JonInWA]

I recently followed a recent thread concerning the critical use of the weak hand index and pinky finger placement on the front strap and exerted strength in them on the frontstrap area as a means of controlling recoil/reducing follow-up shot times. I'm interested enough to experiment with my Glock G21, which is my personal bete noir....

Best, Jon

[OttoLoader]

I recently followed a recent thread concerning the critical use of the weak hand index and pinky finger placement on the front strap and exerted strength in them on the frontstrap area as a means of controlling recoil/reducing follow-up shot times. I'm interested enough to experiment with my Glock G21, which is my personal bete noir....

Best, Jon

Supposedly using current method of both hand on grip not in front of trigger guard is supposed to give more secure grip reduce flip etc.
Unfortunately if observing many using this method and view many slow motion video. Many do not hold the handgun tight enough and wrists stiff enough so with not hands on grip there is a fulcrum pivot point and the handgun still recoils flip.
As a private citizen conceal carrier I practice one hand shooting because I may need to use hand held light open door assist family.
What I discovered is using a strong one hand grip I reduce the muzzle flip and keep sights alignment while pulling trigger.
So my support hand when using two hands is to place it under the dust cover a in front of the trigger guard. This acts as a second contact point so the single fulcrum point on the grip is not as dramatic during the trigger pull because any downward muzzle motion is resisted by the support had contact. During recoil muzzle ris is about the same.
Technique to reduce muzzle recoil is to pressure your strong arm downward while firing and keep wrist locked.
Maybe in competition the finger off the trigger guard is better.
But for cc I use my method as described above.

[BehindBlueI's]

Hi, I'm deleo, and I'm new to this forum. This subject greatly interests me as circumstances have forced me to consider gripping trigger guard with forefinger of weak hand. I've had surgery on my right arm (thank goodness I'm lefty) and the net result is my right hand and arm are considerably weaker then my left. I have been experimenting with both a traditional grip and a modified grip with forefinger of weak hand on trigger guard. So far the results favor me using the modified grip. My groupings are tighter, not to imply that my groups are are unusually tight, and when using the traditional grip I tend to shoot low and to the right. I am continuing to use both until I'm sure that bad technique is not interfering with the conventional grip.

What I ended up with is Massad Ayoob's "wedge grip". It effectively increases the pressure generated by your off hand via leverage. I've got all the strength, but not all of the feeling, back in my left hand and still use it. I found it slower to build the grip until I had a lot of reps in, as compared to a more standard thumbs forward, but eventually got the hang of it and my shooting slowly improved.

[GJM]

I think there is a conflict between recoil control and trigger control. Holding the pistol harder helps with recoil control but hurts my trigger control. Lately, I have been backing off my grip pressure and it has helped my speed and accuracy.

[BehindBlueI's]

I think there is a conflict between recoil control and trigger control. Holding the pistol harder helps with recoil control but hurts my trigger control. Lately, I have been backing off my grip pressure and it has helped my speed and accuracy.

I find with the Glock the tighter grip helps me. I could hold the Sig TDA guns looser without pushing shots. Because of that I find the Glock more tiring to shoot. Doesn't matter except for range days, of course. I don't know how much of the difference is simply you are more skilled then I am and how much is my "custom" crooked fingers and reduced sensation, thus reduced feedback, in my offhand.

[GJM]

I find with the Glock the tighter grip helps me. I could hold the Sig TDA guns looser without pushing shots. Because of that I find the Glock more tiring to shoot. Doesn't matter except for range days, of course. I don't know how much of the difference is simply you are more skilled then I am and how much is my "custom" crooked fingers and reduced sensation, thus reduced feedback, in my offhand.

Good point. All things equal, I think the lighter the pistol and the longer and heavier the trigger, the harder you have to grip it.

My wife, long time Glock shooter, battled elbow pain for a year after upping her round count when she started competing in USPSA. Almost immediately, after switching to a 320 X5/Legion, her elbow pain got better, to where she has no elbow pain two months after her transition.

[Robinson]

Good point. All things equal, I think the lighter the pistol and the longer and heavier the trigger, the harder you have to grip it.

Hmm... I grip the shit out of my 1911s when I shoot, and when I relax my grip I see my groups open up. I don't grip my G34 quite as hard (still pretty hard though), but that could be a 45 vs 9mm thing.