Anyone using a 7.62x51 AR pattern carbine?

[Jason M]

As the title states... Looking for some input from those who are. Just acquired a 16 inch SA gun. My idea is that it could serve as a harder hitting version of my 16 inch 5.56 carbine rather than a semi-precision platform. My 5.56 guns have either Aimpoints or a Trijicon Accupoint 1x4 with the green triangle on a post reticle. I like them. Thinking about adding one to the new gun. Does anyone with a 7.62 AR carbine have it equipped with an LVPO?. If so, which one, what zero, and how is it holding up to use?

Thanks in advance!

[Coyote41]

I personally see almost zero net benefit (when weighed against the downsides) to 7.62 as a “close quarters” carbine over a 5.56. The large frame AR fills the role between carbine 0-500 meters) and precision bolt action (800+ meters) with some overlap with both. Any good large frame AR should be sub 2 MOA, and thus usable to 800 meters at least. With that in mind, I want a minimum 6X (preferably higher) top end magnification on any rifle powered cartridge.

All that considered, I think the ideal for a 7.62 semi is in the 1-8 or 2-10 range. These give you the best use of all ranges that the rifle is likely to be used in. Depending on your pain tolerance, these can be combined with RTS sights or a QD mount for a really good jack-of-all-trades rifle.

I’m currently using a Trijicon 1-8 Accupower and Leupold VX-R patrol 3-9 on my .308 semi’s. I don’t like the SFP or low end on the Leupold, but its lighter weight makes it a pretty nice scope for the money. If I did it again, I’d opt for an FFP 2-10 instead (being used on LMT MWS).

[Suvorov]

I've been shooting my PWS 216 as my primary long gun for the past couple years. I started with a simple Aimpoint PRO, then went to a Leupold 1.25-4 VXR on it but have since put a uber cheap Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8 on it as a place holder to help me decide whether a 1-8 optic is the way to go for my needs. I've had no issues with either scopes and the recoil, loss of zero, etc. Maybe about 500 rounds since I started running LPVOs on it. For the Leupold I went with a basic 100 yard zero since it has adjustable turrets but the Strike Eagle uses a retical that is based on a 200 yard zero - still playing with that.

Realistically for me - this gun is more of a range toy than a serious "whatever euphemism you want to use for really needing to use a carbine." If I lived in an area with more wide open spaces where 200+ yard shots would be common, it might be the ideal all round gun but being in a urban/suburban setting it's just a lot of extra weight. But since the real world zombies that infest my metro area are relatively docile - I can afford to play.

[Default.mp3]

This has Failure2Stop written all over it.

I have an SR-25 CC 16" with an ATACR 1-8×, zeroed for 100 yards with Speer Gold Dot 150 gr. It's heavy with the full size SureFire can, and makes me appreciate my 5.56 guns more. It's skewed toward range, given the FFP optic, but it can be used close in if needed. The sheer weight with the can makes it a chore for run and gun type stuff, but without it, is arguably more lively than my suppressed 14.5" with a K16i.

[KalashniKEV]

I've personally toyed a little bit with ARs in 7.62 NATO.

First was a pretty miserable LMT MWS that went back in sometime around when the NZ competition was consuming all of LMT's internal resources. Bad experience from beginning to end and I dumped the malfamatic, poor performing weapon at a loss, with issues disclosed. (Love my MARS-L though!)

Next abortive attempt I ordered the Colt Competition (Bold Ideas, TX) closeout kit from CDNN... mostly because I wanted the lower. The accompanying parts were all absolute bottom of the barrel though so that went back. Probably not worth mentioning.

Not giving up, I built up an Aero M5 kit with a BA Hanson profile SS barrel and FFSR rail, 16x SWFA on top, suppressed, and accuracy was excellent with M118 at 100m. It still wasn't 100% reliable though.

On my final attempt, I did a Faxon bolt and barrel with Aero upper and Atlas HGs (lights and grips only) on the same lower, and it is PERFECT PERFECT. I even won a stage with it at June's two-gun... which I have not done before... and this was on a no-expectations ".308 on my 38th" birthday goof. I can't believe how the 16" pencil retains it's accuracy even on range days where the firing schedule gets it hot. For an optic right now, I'm using a 1-4x Vortex Ranger (FKA Gen 1 Viper).

The Faxon BCG even corrected the reliability woes on my heavier upper, and I'm super happy with all at this time.

As far as "no benefit," I agree if we're talking paper out to intermediate distances. Knocking steel off the posts and causing the range to go cold to reset says something about the ability to penetrate light cover though, and based on the accuracy I'm seeing from even just casual positional shooting I'm confident in it's ability to go long (though I don't have access to such facilities at this time).

TL;DR: Takeaway- What we all know, and I knew going in- stick with as few manufacturers as possible to mitigate tolerance stacking and compatibility issues. Expect there to be obstacles on your quest. 7.62 NATO has different properties than 5.56 NATO. 5.56 NATO is a better all around, GP cartridge, so you won't win any arguments about "better."

[CDFIII]

I have a KAC 14.5" CC carbine I run with either an Aimpoint T2 or Luepold MK6 1-6. It shot great but a bit more recoil than I had out of my 16" ACC. I installed a KAC MAMS and with the T2 as an optic keeping the weight down it has really changed the recoil characteristics of the CC. It thumps more like a heavier 5.56 carbine now. Recoil seems to have been tamed a bit more and I can run it more like I would a 5,56 rifle.
I decided to go with a KAC CQD CQB 7.62 can for it to try and mitigate some sound while keeping it as short as possible. That and KAC hadn't released the CRS can yet. My stamp is cleared now but I haven't had anytime to test it the the CQB can on it yet but I do like how it only adds a few inches to the overall length. I use it as my kinda do all 7.62 gun depending on optic choice.

[TGS]

Is this for work?

[Unobtanium]

I tried it. A 16" 7.62 is not the same as a 16" 5.56 just scaled up. Its completely different. I abandoned it for my purposes.

[Oukaapie]

I got rid of all my 7.62. If I need something with more oomph I prefer the AR15 format.

Pick your poison, 300, 6.8, 6.5 Grendel, 224 Valkyrie. It’s all about use case.

[DamonL]

Here are a few old threads on the AR10.


https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5683-308-Semi-Auto-Rifle&highlight=Larue

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?30079-AR-10-Suggestions/page3

Bottom line is make sure the gun is reliable first. There is weight and recoil penalty. Many suggestions for using a different caliber in an AR15.

[Jay585]

"Using" one? No I wouldn't say that, but I have one and shoot one.

It's a Colt CM762-16S modular rifle and I've got a Leupold CQBSS 1-8 on it. I feel about it the same way I felt about the SCAR 17. Meh. For some reason I keep expecting 308 battle rifles to be something special but honestly, it's just not.

As for the rifle itself, it shoots well. I shot this off the ammo can in the picture, standing/crouching awkwardly using surplus ammo (Hintenberger '75) and it shoots quite well at what I assume to be 80 yards (I should've milled the target, but alas I did not):

https://i.imgur.com/QJMJr0L.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pRQNqQ8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ndvoVAt.jpg

It's heavier than the SCAR, but feels better to shoot. It's like.... imagine having a swordfight except one of you has a wooden dowel and the other guy has a length of dried bamboo stalk. The Colt is the wooden dowel.

I'm not a huge fan of the design of Colt's ambi mag release. As a lefty, if I try to hit the left side release in a hurry and I'm a little sweaty, I:
1) miss it or,
2) slip off the release and onto the trigger.

I haven't really run it a lot, or "professionally" (besides sighting in a lot of the shooting has been mag dumps or plinking at range debris) but I wish I'd spent the money on something else. Maybe someday when I go backpacking again I'll appreciate having it, but...

[SecondsCount]

I had a DPMS 308 with the big heavy barrel about 10 years ago when they first came out. It was reliable and would shoot under an inch at 100 with my reloads. At the time, I thought 308 was so much better than 5.56 but then I discovered the 77 SMK and figured out I could do about the same thing with my free floated 16" AR, the only downside being less energy.

[HCM]

OP- mission drives the gear train so what mission do you have for a 7.62 that a 5.56 can’t do, or can’t do as well ?

There is a weight an recoil penalty so you need a requirement that makes those penalties worthwhile.

Normally those requirements are either longer range, penetration or both.

Rural deputy ?

Large, dangerous wildlife ?

Shooting into / to stop cars at road blocks ?

I have a Larue predatar - it’s a lighter weight AR-10 but it is still more DMR than do all carbine.

For a do it all carbine you may want to look at the small frame AR-10s by DPMS and the similarly sized POF Revolution.

One of my co-workers bought a POF as his one, do all rifle and is very pleased with it.

[Default.mp3]

From a an older P&S thread (https://www.facebook.com/groups/PSPrimarySecondary/permalink/1139701132743052/):

Why a .308 AR? Because it beats 5.56 in a 16" platform in every area that matters, and is only marginally heavier. If that large of a rifle is a problem, I'll fall back to 10.3"-14.5" 5.56.

I would not choose a 16" 7.62 for unsuppressed enclosure clearing, and would highly recommend at least a small suppressor if that's on your task list.

From a performance standpoint, I don't like getting under 8lbs with a semi-auto 7.62 if I am going to shoot it much. There is a definite advantage to some weight in soaking up recoil. A decent multi-purpose compensator will help, but there's still that whole suppressed use part.

Really, it's not so much that I think that a 7.62 carbine fixes all the world's woes so much as I don't see much use in 5.56 bigger than 14.5, so if I'm going to deal with the weight and length, I want to cause as much effect as possible with each hit.

While multiple rapid hits are great and bear decent effect when employed, there isn't much guarantee of that unless the other dude is tied up.

[Coyote41]

“Marginally heavier” is very subjective. I can have a 16” 5.56 carbine with optic (not even a super light one) light, and loaded magazine for less than the unloaded base rifle weight of most .308 rifles. Between my 5.56 rifles and .308 rifles there is a 1.5-3 lb difference depending on rifle and configuration. That’s pretty significant to me. It may not feel like much holding them in the store or shooting them supported in a bowling ally, but take them out to a class, match, or hunting. The difference is real.

[Andy T]

I have the earlier version Colt LE901. It has the standard pic rail. It is equipped with Steiner 1-4. I like this carbine a lot. Compared to SCAR-H (which I also have) with M4 and extended rail, the Colt is actually a little lighter. The carbine runs fine and eats all sorts of ammo, including Wolf. The only downside is the somewhat non-standard lower. As a result if you want to use certain grips (in my case MIAD with M backstrap), I had to modify the top of the backstrap wings. It also uses a non-standard charging handle.
I also have LMT MWS which while it can be run as a carbine, I use mostly as a precision rifle. It's heavier than Colt due to LMT's barrel design, but its CL barrel also eats all cheap ammo and has decent accuracy.
Personally, if choosing a "carbine" purpose, I would use my LE901.

[CTX44]

I've owned several, still own an OBR (heavy), owned a SCAR Heavy, several other battle rifles from FAL's to HK 91's to a bunch of M14s in every barrel length.

There are tons of advantages to 7.62x51 as a primary arm. I've killed a few hundred wild pigs and deer and the difference between shooting them with a 5.56 (64gr gold dot or 62gr fusion) and shooting them with a larger caliber is very noticeable. I've culled deer with 5.56 bc I was taking them off a farm and was trying to get 2 or 3 at a time, but I never really felt great about it. They run farther and take longer to die, even in a relaxed state. Its just a small hole, and a light bullet that deflects easily off bone, etc. Same with pigs. Can't imagine a person would be much different.

I used a 7.62 semi auto for culling, very briefly, but the recoil management really was an issue if you're trying to hit moving animals. What basically happened was I ran into the 6.8 spc and shot enough animals with it that I really started liking it. I ended with selling all my battle rifles and keeping only the OBR for long range, and running a 6.8 when I want more oomph than a 5.56.

The 6.8 handles basically like a 5.56 but terminal ballistics on 200-lb mammals, at least inside 100 yards, is pretty compelling. You don't give up that much to a 308 or 270 until you get past 100 yards. After that, it starts to matter.

That said... there's a lot to like about a 308. I just was a wussy about weight and recoil management so ended up splitting the difference.

[Unobtanium]

I've owned several, still own an OBR (heavy), owned a SCAR Heavy, several other battle rifles from FAL's to HK 91's to a bunch of M14s in every barrel length.

There are tons of advantages to 7.62x51 as a primary arm. I've killed a few hundred wild pigs and deer and the difference between shooting them with a 5.56 (64gr gold dot or 62gr fusion) and shooting them with a larger caliber is very noticeable. I've culled deer with 5.56 bc I was taking them off a farm and was trying to get 2 or 3 at a time, but I never really felt great about it. They run farther and take longer to die, even in a relaxed state. Its just a small hole, and a light bullet that deflects easily off bone, etc. Same with pigs. Can't imagine a person would be much different.

I used a 7.62 semi auto for culling, very briefly, but the recoil management really was an issue if you're trying to hit moving animals. What basically happened was I ran into the 6.8 spc and shot enough animals with it that I really started liking it. I ended with selling all my battle rifles and keeping only the OBR for long range, and running a 6.8 when I want more oomph than a 5.56.

The 6.8 handles basically like a 5.56 but terminal ballistics on 200-lb mammals, at least inside 100 yards, is pretty compelling. You don't give up that much to a 308 or 270 until you get past 100 yards. After that, it starts to matter.

That said... there's a lot to like about a 308. I just was a wussy about weight and recoil management so ended up splitting the difference.


Just curious, but what bones deflected 5.56? I hunt deer with 5.56 and they track straight, even when blowing a spinal column in half from an oblique.

I would like to use the .308 for deer, but my experience was that past 75 yards or so, accuracy was iffy by my standards with a .308 gasser. Bolt guns are the way to go, IME, so I sold my .308 and just use the 5.56 now, as really, it is fine on anything I need to kill, as evidenced by my experiences with it. Usually they run 50-75 yards and die where they fall (white tail deer, I shoot them COM through the lungs/heart). No muss no fuss, decent enough blood trails.