S&W Frame Failure

[Dave T]

For about 2 years I searched the various gun sales sites looking for one of the discontinued 4" 325 PDs. Well a couple months ago I found one and won the auction.

I fired a couple cylinders through it, but I really dislike the Ti cylinder and it's cleaning problems (annoyance). I had a 625 stainless cylinder on hand and after switching the ejector stars, installed it in the 325 PD. Thought I had a perfect "carrying" 45 ACP that could even be concealed under the proper clothing. Only problem was the worst DA trigger pull I've ever owned. My gunsmith fixed that, giving it a smooth and more reasonable pull weight (~9#). I also had him replace the "V" notch rear sight blade with a square notch.

I took it to the range to test fire after my student was done last week but only fired 12 rounds as it was well on it's way to 100+ in central Arizona. While cleaning it after getting home I looked at the frame opening for the yoke/crane. To my great surprise I found a longitudinal crack under the barrel, going all the way through the Ti/Al alloy. The folks on the S&W Forum all told me to call S&W. I did and they told me the lifetime warranty didn't apply. They said I could send it in and they would evaluate it to see if they could fix it. If they could (no promises) they listed all the possible charges, which started to approach what I have in it.

I've been mulling this over all weekend. I'm not sure I want to dump any more money into a gun that will never be worth what the repairs and purchase price add up to.

Your comments/suggestions are welcomed.

Dave

PS: I have pictures but I am incapable of posting them here for reasons I don't understand.

[Gadfly]

I am sure they will say swapping the cylinder voided the warranty... I doubt it did any thing to contribute to the cracked frame, but they will still say it...

[OlongJohnson]

The beginning of eroding the coating on the Ti cylinder was worse after it came back from S&W warranty service on my PD gun. And they didn't fix the main problem I sent it in to get fixed. The paperwork says they did, but the feeler gauges and eyeballs say they didn't. Another call back to S&W CS revealed they simply don't have the part that needs to be replaced (not the Ti cylinder). So if I can find a way to get it fixed, I'll change the cylinder to stainless anyway. The S&W warranty service is nearly useless IMO.

[Dave T]

I am sure they will say swapping the cylinder voided the warranty... I doubt it did any thing to contribute to the cracked frame, but they will still say it...

The Ti cylinder is back in the gun but that wasn't even part of the discussion. They told me, since I wasn't the original owner the gun wasn't covered by warranty. End of conversation. They said maybe they will fix it, but I have to pay for it. What I'm trying to figure out is if it's worth paying any more for.

Dave

[ralph]

The Ti cylinder is back in the gun but that wasn't even part of the discussion. They told me, since I wasn't the original owner the gun wasn't covered by warranty. End of conversation. They said maybe they will fix it, but I have to pay for it. What I'm trying to figure out is if it's worth paying any more for.

Dave

This is a tough call to make.. Part of me says to put it up for sale as a parts gun, explaining what's wrong with it, the other part of me says to send it in, and if they fix it, to put it up for sale the minute it gets back. Sure, you'll take a hit, but I'd think you'd at least be able to get more for it as a working pistol, than as a parts gun.. One thing I'd never do, is buy another one..new or used..

[Malamute]

Depending on how the numbers work out, you might consider parting it out on the Smith-Wesson forum. With the frame cracked, it shouldnt be too difficult to get the barrel out. Its unusual, which should mean the parts are likely worth a little more than average stuff. You could also try selling it with disclosure as a parts gun there and avoid whatever hassle dealing with multiple people entails, but my dealings there for parts have been pretty smooth.

What are the frames made of? If it could be welded, id give it a try then see if the barrel torques up. You wouldnt be out much if it didnt work, it would at least be functional then.

[Dagga Boy]

The Ti cylinder is back in the gun but that wasn't even part of the discussion. They told me, since I wasn't the original owner the gun wasn't covered by warranty. End of conversation. They said maybe they will fix it, but I have to pay for it. What I'm trying to figure out is if it's worth paying any more for.

Dave

I don’t know. I sent a cracked 442 in and they replaced the gun. I was the original owner, but the reality is a frame crack is a defect, especially in those guns. Mine was a 1993 442, with an amazing trigger job. I refused to take a $300 MIM replacement and they sent me a 43C to make it closer financially. I d call again.

[OlongJohnson]

Depending on how the numbers work out, you might consider parting it out on the Smith-Wesson forum. With the frame cracked, it shouldnt be too difficult to get the barrel out. Its unusual, which should mean the parts are likely worth a little more than average stuff. You could also try selling it with disclosure as a parts gun there and avoid whatever hassle dealing with multiple people entails, but my dealings there for parts have been pretty smooth.

What are the frames made of? If it could be welded, id give it a try then see if the barrel torques up. You wouldnt be out much if it didnt work, it would at least be functional then.

3 series S&Ws are scandium alloy.

[Dave T]

3 series S&Ws are scandium alloy.

Olong is correct. Same frame material as the Night Guards. And this failure makes me really suspicious of the 386 NG I have and occasionally carry. My deteriorating spine will hate me but I may go back to pre-lock steel guns exclusively. I'd just have to buy a spare of each model for parts insurance (smile).

Dave

[Dagga Boy]

I have heard from solid sources that most cracking under the frame barrel junction is an issue with overtightening the barrel in assembly. It should be factory covered. When the break elsewhere it is usually an issue of loads used.

[Dave T]

I have a gunsmith friend who is well versed in S&W. He said the same thing, that the frame cracking under the barrel is a result of over torquing when the barrel was installed.

Dave

[Grizzly]

Try to track down the original owner. Maybe he could send it in.

[CTX44]

Definitely send it in. I have had to send guns back to SW more than once. The first time, they don't fix it, the second time, they usually do. Complain enough and they'll take care of you, is my guess, maybe replacing it with something still in the catalog.

[Dave T]

Not sure how many times I have to say this. S&W has already stated that the life time warranty does not apply. They aren't going to "fix" anything unless I pay dearly for it and they most certainly aren't going to "replace" anything, period.

Despite all the S&W fans who think the mother ship is the ultimate solution to all things S&W, all I see coming out of sending it back is pouring more money down a poorly designed rat hole. Barrels being over torqued in Scandium/Aluminum frames seems to be, in part, a design flaw. I'm just not going to spend money on that again.

Dave