Remember The Alamo

[blues]

I understand folks have strong feelings on the subject of immigration and borders...but this is unacceptable (https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-protestors-rip-down-american-flag-at-ice-facility-raise-mexico-flag-vandalize-blue-lives-matter-flag) to me.



Authorities in Colorado restored an American flag to its place Friday evening after protesters demonstrating outside a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) facility pulled down the star-spangled banner and flew the flag of Mexico in its place.

The protesters also removed a “Blue Lives Matter” flag, honoring law enforcement, spray-painted it with the words “Abolish ICE,” then raised the flag upside-down, on a pole next to the Mexican flag, according to local media.

[RevolverRob]

I don't know what to make of this.

Given that probably 90-99% of the protesters were white Americans, it strikes me as cognitive dissonance, political ignorance - oh I get it - it's more slacktivism.

Illegal immigrants aren't in this country, because they want it to become Mexico/Wherever - they're here because it is not Mexico/Wherever.

Also, I've never met a Mexican who would go to a political rally. That's silly, if the politics suck, we just move. :eek:

[Wondering Beard]

Given that probably 90-99% of the protesters were white Americans, it strikes me as cognitive dissonance, political ignorance - oh I get it - it's more slacktivism.


To your point: Compared with the rest of the (nationally representative) polling sample, progressive activists are much more likely to be rich, highly educated—and white. They are nearly twice as likely as the average to make more than $100,000 a year. (https://getpocket.com/explore/item/americans-strongly-dislike-pc-culture?)

[NickA]

Illegal immigrants aren't in this country, because they want it to become Mexico/Wherever - they're here because it is not Mexico/Wherever.

Also, I've never met a Mexican who would go to a political rally. That's silly, if the politics suck, we just move. :eek:

Back when the immigration stuff started heating up (12 years or so?) my father in law was interviewed for a story in Texas Monthly. (He was an immigrant who ended up working on the ranch of a major political figure from the 70s. One of that family became a writer).
Anyway, there was a protest scheduled the next day in Austin. When asked if he would attend, he looked at the guy sideways and immediately said, in Spanish, "Hell no, I have to work and don't have time for that foolishness".
That's the immigrants I'm familiar with. He might be the bravest, toughest SOB I've ever met.
You figure our Greatest Generation was tough and resilient because of the wars and the Depression, but that's just basically how it's been in Mexico for the last century or so - a constant struggle just to get by.



Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[blues]

To your point: Compared with the rest of the (nationally representative) polling sample, progressive activists are much more likely to be rich, highly educated—and white. They are nearly twice as likely as the average to make more than $100,000 a year. (https://getpocket.com/explore/item/americans-strongly-dislike-pc-culture?)

Rich people make the best socialists.

[HCM]

Rhetoric has consequences.

Tacoma police shoot man throwing incendiaries at Northwest Detention Center


https://komonews.com/news/local/tacoma-police-shoot-man-throwing-incendiaries-at-northwest-detention-center


Officers responded to the scene at about 4 a.m. Saturday to find the man outside the facility, armed with a rifle and throwing the incendiaries. One vehicle caught fire, and the suspect also tried to blow up a large propane tank and outbuildings.


When officers arrived, shots were fired, although no police were injured in the incident. After police retreated, others found the suspect dead at the scene.

[blues]

You figure our Greatest Generation was tough and resilient because of the wars and the Depression, but that's just basically how it's been in Mexico for the last century or so - a constant struggle just to get by.

Pretty much the same for immigrants from any nation that came here for economic or political reasons.

I know it applies to my own relatives from various spots in Europe...and the same can be said for those coming from Haiti, Cuba, the Americas, and pretty much any other place you care to name. Anyone who has spent any amount of time around immigrants in their own families, or just those they have encountered in their day to day lives, has to respect the toughness and resiliency of folks who were committed to fighting to survive and make a better life for themselves and their families.

[TDA]

https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/284875/americas-white-saviors

Here’s an interesting article about the evolution of pro out-group bias amongst affluent white liberals. It seems to be driven by Facebook, particularly the algorithm driven bubbles of racial outrage stories that can form in the attempt to drive engagement with the platform and its advertisements.

[HCM]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-faces-protestors-at-nh-campaign-event-over-obama-era-deportations

[Wondering Beard]

Rich people make the best socialists.

If I remember correctly, the Baader Meinhoff gang (and all the other leftist terrorist groups in Europe) came from well off families.

[blues]

https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/284875/americas-white-saviors

Here’s an interesting article about the evolution of pro out-group bias amongst affluent white liberals. It seems to be driven by Facebook, particularly the algorithm driven bubbles of racial outrage stories that can form in the attempt to drive engagement with the platform and its advertisements.

Interesting article, thanks for the link.

It also demonstrates, at least to me, how unfounded many of these perspectives are when it comes to the facts...


There is no simple or single explanation for how this process got started. It appears to be driven by an interplay of factors: preexisting tendencies among white liberals; a series of polarizing events like the police shooting of Michael Brown and subsequent riots in Ferguson...


There is no shortage of oppression and injustice in America and the wider world. But things are not nearly as bad nor as uniformly black and white as they appear on Twitter and YouTube feeds. Hispanics, Muslims, and other minorities do not leave their homes and enter a world where white racism greets them at every street corner. In fact, multiple recent studies find no racial disparities in police use of deadly force. The odds of an unarmed black person being shot by police appear to approximate his/her chance of being struck by lightning. The probability of being killed by a right-wing extremist is equally low, if not lower. Of course, violence committed by police officers or motivated by prejudice offends our sense of morality and violates our vision of a just society in a way that lightning strikes and other nonhuman events do not; but for this moral outrage to inspire judicious outcomes it has to be kept in perspective.

Unfortunately, the outrage delivered through digital media tends to distort this vital perspective. America is perceived as incorrigibly unjust, racist, and in need of radical transformation. Compounding this, the perception of benefiting from such iniquity through white privilege naturally produces heightened feelings of guilt, anger, and an empathic desire “to do something” to help the suffering, or to at least signal one’s moral virtue to others.

...and of course, when all else fails "blame the Jews" is always available for a quick and easy villain and target. Apparently that card is the joker in every deck.

[RJ]

There are not many things that piss me off these days.

But to see our National Flag taken down, and the flag of a foreign country raised in its place, yeah, that would be one of them.

[feudist]

If I remember correctly, the Baader Meinhoff gang (and all the other leftist terrorist groups in Europe) came from well off families.

As were the Weathermen/Weather Underground.

Apparently the combination of a sheltered upbringing and attending college as a social networking phase results in the abstraction and distance from real people required

to embrace Marxism and Maoism.

[blues]

As were the Weathermen/Weather Underground.

Apparently the combination of a sheltered upbringing and attending college as a social networking phase results in the abstraction and distance from real people required

to embrace Marxism and Maoism.

I think there's a certain amount of truth in that...enhanced and perhaps exacerbated by the technological changes and idealism spawned during the post war years of the fifties and on. People wanted what they wanted and they wanted it "now". Perspectives appeared to be radically altered in the wake of WWII. Few of us were immune from the gravitational field exerted in the 50's and 60's and beyond.

I can tell you that it was a crazy time to be growing up.

[TheNewbie]

I don't know what to make of this.

Given that probably 90-99% of the protesters were white Americans, it strikes me as cognitive dissonance, political ignorance - oh I get it - it's more slacktivism.

Illegal immigrants aren't in this country, because they want it to become Mexico/Wherever - they're here because it is not Mexico/Wherever.

Also, I've never met a Mexican who would go to a political rally. That's silly, if the politics suck, we just move. :eek:


But they don’t understand why it’s different. That’s a major issue.

Some cultures are better than others. They need to be taught this, understand it and live it. They need to be American.

My soon to be wife is from Mexico. She has a harsher view of illegal immigration than me.

[blues]

My soon to be wife is from Mexico. She has a harsher view of illegal immigration than me.

Congrats, Newb.

People that stand in line and do it right always resent those that cut the line and break the rules.

[TheNewbie]

Congrats, Newb.

People that stand in line and do it right always resent those that cut the line and break the rules.

Thank you.

I don’t blame people trying to get here anyway possible. However they have a moral responsibility to put their new country first and adopt its values the best they can. Yes I believe in immigration control and even a wall, just I understand their desire.


Of course many Americans don’t understand what it means to be American. Between the education system, college, and politicians who don’t believe in American values, it’s no surprise we are losing our identity.

[blues]

Thank you.

I don’t blame people trying to get here anyway possible. However they have a moral responsibility to put their new country first and adopt its values the best they can. Yes I believe in immigration control and even a wall, just I understand their desire.


Of course many Americans don’t understand what it means to be American. Between the education system, college, and politicians who don’t believe in American values, it’s no surprise we are losing our identity.

We lost that identity with the mind numbing regularity of pigeonholing everyone as an African-American, Italian American, Irish American, Jewish American, Mexican American and on and on ad nauseum.

I say this facetiously but it should be a crime to refer to oneself as any kind of an American but an American.

I am an American. First, last and always. I'm glad my (and my wife's) forebears came here...but once they did they became Americans.
(And learned to speak English.)

[Drang]

Rich people make the best socialists.

40106

Related: Ranger Up! has some new t-shirts that the Bernie Bros and AOC fans will hate: Unapologetically American – Ranger Up (https://rangerup.com/collections/unapologetically-american-1?_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJrZW5kYXdlQG1zbi5jb20iLCAi a2xfY29tcGFueV9pZCI6ICJLVWtQSkIifQ%3D%3D)

[Drang]

If I remember correctly, the majority of members of leftist terrorist groups worldwide came from well off families.

FIFY. "Right Wing" terrorist groups don't get off, either.

And, of course, bin laden and other leaders of al qaeda, including of course the 9/11 shitstains.

[eb07]

I don't get upset at this. Why? I laugh at the idiocy that they risk life and limb to escape the crapholes they live in and then come here and raise the flag of said craphole like they are proud of it in some ignorant, mentally deficient way. You can't fix stupid so why get angry at it?

[blues]

I don't get upset at this. Why? I laugh at the idiocy that they risk life and limb to escape the crapholes they live in and then come here and raise the flag of said craphole like they are proud of it in some ignorant, mentally deficient way. You can't fix stupid so why get angry at it?

I don't think those are the folks that pulled down our flags...

[LSP552]

I don't know what to make of this.

Given that probably 90-99% of the protesters were white Americans, it strikes me as cognitive dissonance, political ignorance - oh I get it - it's more slacktivism.

Illegal immigrants aren't in this country, because they want it to become Mexico/Wherever - they're here because it is not Mexico/Wherever.

Also, I've never met a Mexican who would go to a political rally. That's silly, if the politics suck, we just move. :eek:

How about a chance to be a fucking dick? There are people who look for a reason to hate this county and all it stands for. We aren’t perfect by a long shot, but this shit pisses me off to no end.

Professional protesters. Screw them, they all need the hickory shampoo.

[RevolverRob]

If I remember correctly, the Baader Meinhoff gang (and all the other leftist terrorist groups in Europe) came from well off families.


As were the Weathermen/Weather Underground.

Apparently the combination of a sheltered upbringing and attending college as a social networking phase results in the abstraction and distance from real people required

to embrace Marxism and Maoism.

Because when you've been given everything in your life, you start to think everyone should be given everything. You only know how to be given something. You have no conceptual framework for what it is like to work for something. When an individual lacks that perspective, things like Socialism seem great. "I'll just take money from people with more money than me and give it away to the poor." - Never once realizing that they are the people with more money to have it taken from.


But they don’t understand why it’s different. That’s a major issue.

Some cultures are better than others. They need to be taught this, understand it and live it. They need to be American.

My soon to be wife is from Mexico. She has a harsher view of illegal immigration than me.

I'm not sure that is true. The know damn well why the U.S. isn't Mexico.

Many of them lack the means (financially and/or educationally) to immigrate legally and feel they have no choice. Perhaps they do have choices, but don't realize it. My family did not have sympathy for illegals for decades, that is changing now. Mexico is not the same country my great grand parents emigrated from in 1902. It's even more volatile, more dangerous, and more corrupt than ever. For hard working peoples the costs of the legal immigration process into the U.S. represents a years of earnings.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are illegals who are dangerous to our society here. Those who come only to take and give nothing. I also think the rhetoric makes it difficult to determine which of those immigrants are good vs. bad. The question(s) we want to think about in this realm is how can and if the immigration process can be reformed. And as a result, can we find ways to improve? What isn't working - mass deportations, a border wall, or more of the same. It's the definition of insanity for one failed immigration reform after another, because of none of them are truly reforms.


I don't get upset at this. Why? I laugh at the idiocy that they risk life and limb to escape the crapholes they live in and then come here and raise the flag of said craphole like they are proud of it in some ignorant, mentally deficient way. You can't fix stupid so why get angry at it?

As blues said...those aren't the ones who did it. I'd bet 10-1 that the individuals who pulled down the U.S. flag and flew a Mexican flag in its place, have never been outside of a resort town in Mexico, if they have even been there at all.

Also just to be clear there is nothing wrong with being proud of your home country (wherever that may be) and your adopted home country (wherever that may be). The idea that individuals must sacrifice their cultural and heritage identities to be Americans is not only incorrect, it's a near perfect manifestation of xenophobia.

[ranger]

Some of this is a symptom of the way that most Americans have not served something bigger than themselves since the 1980s. A very small percentage of America volunteers to be US Military, some form of Law Enforcement, firemen, EMS, or other forms of service. Many current Americans have never known hardship and have time for this narcissism.

Many PF'ers have served or serve in some form or fashion and we tend to associate with those that serves/serve. The snowflakes and protesters may as well be another culture for us.

[TheNewbie]

Because when you've been given everything in your life, you start to think everyone should be given everything. You only know how to be given something. You have no conceptual framework for what it is like to work for something. When an individual lacks that perspective, things like Socialism seem great. "I'll just take money from people with more money than me and give it away to the poor." - Never once realizing that they are the people with more money to have it taken from.



I'm not sure that is true. The know damn well why the U.S. isn't Mexico.

Many of them lack the means (financially and/or educationally) to immigrate legally and feel they have no choice. Perhaps they do have choices, but don't realize it. My family did not have sympathy for illegals for decades, that is changing now. Mexico is not the same country my great grand parents emigrated from in 1902. It's even more volatile, more dangerous, and more corrupt than ever. For hard working peoples the costs of the legal immigration process into the U.S. represents a years of earnings.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are illegals who are dangerous to our society here. Those who come only to take and give nothing. I also think the rhetoric makes it difficult to determine which of those immigrants are good vs. bad. The question(s) we want to think about in this realm is how can and if the immigration process can be reformed. And as a result, can we find ways to improve? What isn't working - mass deportations, a border wall, or more of the same. It's the definition of insanity for one failed immigration reform after another, because of none of them are truly reforms.



As blues said...those aren't the ones who did it. I'd bet 10-1 that the individuals who pulled down the U.S. flag and flew a Mexican flag in its place, have never been outside of a resort town in Mexico, if they have even been there at all.

Also just to be clear there is nothing wrong with being proud of your home country (wherever that may be) and your adopted home country (wherever that may be). The idea that individuals must sacrifice their cultural and heritage identities to be Americans is not only incorrect, it's a near perfect manifestation of xenophobia.


I don't think they understand the idea of small government and individual liberty, why we are not as corrupt, or the type of order that made our society. It's not a race thing, but it is a culture and values thing.

I am deeply familiar with, and interact on an almost daily basis with a wide range of Mexican and Central American immigrants. This includes people from a variety of realms of the socio-economic spectrum.

Some of them are friends, one of them will be my wife (who I obtained a fiancee visa for). There are a few who understand what it means to be American, but I have not seen evidence that most do. The decedents don't, as evidenced by their voting patterns.

This issue is much bigger than the Mexican flag incident, and I am less worried by the criminal aliens than I am about decent people not understanding what America is and how to become American. We have plenty of those born here, we do not need to bring more in.

This is a deal I would make though. We can trade 100 people born here for 1 person from another country. If that person understands America and wants to be American in the fullest sense. Don't care what country, what they look like, what their first language is. 100 for 1.

[Borderland]

But they don’t understand why it’s different. That’s a major issue.

Some cultures are better than others. They need to be taught this, understand it and live it. They need to be American.

My soon to be wife is from Mexico. She has a harsher view of illegal immigration than me.

I have a family member who immigrated from Ecuador. She feels the same way about illegal immigrants. They need to immigrate the same way she did, legally. She has no good will or anything positive to say about mojados. She's well educated and has been employed or in college the entire time she's been here, about 20 years. I was pretty close to some of this having lived on the border the first 16 years of my life.

I don't like people desecrating the American flag. I've traveled a bit in Africa and Mexico and I can tell you it's a difficult existence. People don't realize what they have here and they can't understand it by listening to a socialist college professor. I would submit that they live in Africa or S. America for a few years without any financial support and see what it's like before they decide they want to change anything here. Most of them couldn't survive there.

[Drang]

Rhetoric has consequences.

Tacoma police shoot man throwing incendiaries at Northwest Detention Center


https://komonews.com/news/local/tacoma-police-shoot-man-throwing-incendiaries-at-northwest-detention-center

Joe "Boomer Shoot" Huffman has more details: Antifa takes a casualty | The View From North Central Idaho (http://blog.joehuffman.org/2019/07/14/antifa-takes-a-casualty/). The Puget Sound anarchists are taking credit:

Will Van Spronsen was a long-time anarchist, anti-fascist and a kind, loving person.
Because homicide by arson is a kind, loving thing to do...

[Drang]

Rich people make the best socialists.

I Went to a Socialism Conference. Here Are My 6 Observations. (https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/07/15/i-went-to-a-socialism-conference-here-are-my-6-observations/)

[blues]

I Went to a Socialism Conference. Here Are My 6 Observations. (https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/07/15/i-went-to-a-socialism-conference-here-are-my-6-observations/)

https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/7/2018/04/GettyImages-50694879-3ef5dda.jpg?quality=45&resize=556,556

"Snowflakes of the world unite..."

[Zincwarrior]

So as a Texan, this post has nothing to do with either The Alamo, or Alamo Texas? I am confused.

[blues]

So as a Texan, this post has nothing to do with either The Alamo, or Alamo Texas? I am confused.

You can always choose to ignore it, (assuming you're referring to the thread). Or you can interpret it creatively. Or maybe it's about car leasing. Or maybe I just meant a la mode and got confused.

In any case it's evolved and taken on several different strands.

[Zincwarrior]

You can always choose to ignore it, (assuming you're referring to the thread). Or you can interpret it creatively. Or maybe it's about car leasing. Or maybe I just meant a la mode and got confused.

In any case it's evolved and taken on several different strands.

One could rent a car from Alamo in Alamo and drive to San Antonio to see the Alamo. Don't go in July or August. The air is literally on fire here in July and August.

To the topic??? Protestors are gonna protest. Its what the 1st Amendment is all about. You may disagree with them, but you have to support them, because thats what its all about.
40170

[ralph]

Rich people make the best socialists.

Yup, right up until the commies in charge see them as a threat, and they round them up and off to the gulag they go, after signing over all their money first, of course...

[Totem Polar]

Rhetoric has consequences.

Tacoma police shoot man throwing incendiaries at Northwest Detention Center


https://komonews.com/news/local/tacoma-police-shoot-man-throwing-incendiaries-at-northwest-detention-center


There’s a squared-away member here who has inside knowledge on this one. That particular center caters to non-USA clientele released from prison. The majority are convicted felons, so perhaps not the best poster children for protesting treatment of illegals. At any rate, that incendiary perp is probably the first "folksinger" I’ve known of to pull a suicide by cop; most coffeehouse folkies I know are too laid back for any sort of physically violent activities.

It’s bad enough that the guy was a complete failure as an active shooter, with a retarded sense of reasonable protest sites; he can’t even folkie right.

#pitythefool




That's the immigrants I'm familiar with. He might be the bravest, toughest SOB I've ever met.
You figure our Greatest Generation was tough and resilient because of the wars and the Depression, but that's just basically how it's been in Mexico for the last century or so - a constant struggle just to get by.



One of the dudes at the weekend Cecil Burch seminar I just hosted is a 1st-gen immigrant. He’s also a cop, and great guy—exactly the sort of cop we want; equally at home spending half a day hanging out in elementary or high schools as he is applying for a SWAT opening, or holding the DT instructor position. There’s reasons why a guy like him will travel out of state to take a Burch seminar.

Last night, we all went out for pizza and beer, and this guy is wearing a seriously patriotic T-shirt—it’s clear from talking to him that he’s possibly even more pro-America than I am, and I’m pretty damn pro-America, all things considered. The system works. All los gringos ricos protesting "the system" have suffered from a chronic and progressive deficiency of facts. JMO.

[blues]

Maybe we should make a musical...



https://youtu.be/YhSKk-cvblc

[Zincwarrior]

Maybe we should make a musical...



https://youtu.be/YhSKk-cvblc


Speaking of West Side Story...
https://www.indiewire.com/2019/07/west-side-story-first-look-steven-spielberg-ariana-debose-1202157849/

[blues]

Speaking of West Side Story...
https://www.indiewire.com/2019/07/west-side-story-first-look-steven-spielberg-ariana-debose-1202157849/

Who knew I was so prescient? Well...alamost.

[Totem Polar]

Who knew I was so prescient? Well...alamost.

Booooooo-eee. That pun was revolting...

[blues]

Booooooo-eee. That pun was revolting...

I'll make it my mission to do better in future.

[RJ]

I'll make it my mission to do better in future.

That's it. I'm throwing a flag.

40173

:cool:

[Wondering Beard]

I'll make it my mission to do better in future.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1Vb6vjLIZ4

[blues]

If only all Americans could get along, make a few points pro and con, and laugh at themselves as well as we do here. We are a model for America. Ya think it'll catch on?

Nah...righteous indignation, that's what we need more of. Why, back in my day...






:cool:

[SeriousStudent]

I want a date with Maria.

[blues]

I want a date with Maria.

I'll take Anita. I like 'em fiery.

[SeriousStudent]

Yeah, I did fiery.

I still walk with a limp when the weather gets really cold.

[blues]

Yeah, I did fiery.

I still walk with a limp when the weather gets really cold.

I can relate. ;)

[SeriousStudent]

Your sixth sense must have woken you up just in the nick of time as well.