Teach me about STI guns

[RAM Engineer]

I've toyed with the idea of getting a STI/SVI type gun ever since I saw some Ichiro Nagato photos of Smoking Hole Pistol guns back 20 years ago. Reading about the much improved "NEW" STI company and their updated range of guns, I'm pretty interested in picking up either a Staccato-P or a DVC-P. What's the skinny on these not-skinny guns?

[Zincwarrior]

THEY ARE TEXAN! All you need to know!*


*If you need to know more, they are known for making USPSA style competition guns of various flavors. These are not mass production guns-higher quality and commensurate price. Very accurate, good triggers, sights, etc. for the price. Usually used in limited or race guns. I think they are also favored in 3 gun, but am less knowledgeable on that. Good guns. Magazines are bit on the expensive side.

[andre3k]

I've purchased two low round count STI's in the past year. An Edge and a DVC Limited. The Edge has been troubled free so far but I only have about 1500 rounds through it.

The DVC Limited is currently on its second trip to STI in less than 500 rounds. The Bomar rear sight kept moving in the dovetail and they had a new one fitted and back to me in a week. Then the trigger weight started dropping, it went from a 2lb trigger to about a pound in the course of a couple hundred rounds. While this was going on the grip safety stopped worked. The very tip of it cracked and appeared to be an MIM component. It's been at STI since May with no word from them after 3 emails and a voicemail.

It seems like things were getting better while Dave Dawson was taking control of things. He left recently and based on my experience, the customer service left with him. If you buy one purchase a backup gun and hope that one works as well. Their QC seems to be spotty, depending on when your gun was manufactured. I'm not bashing the company, just posting my experience, hopefully the newer guns are better.

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[RevolverRob]

It's been at STI since May with no word from them after 3 emails and a voicemail.

It seems like things were getting better while Dave Dawson was taking control of things. He left recently and based on my experience, the customer service left with him. If you buy one purchase a backup gun and hope that one works as well. Their QC seems to be spotty, depending on when your gun was manufactured. I'm not bashing the company, just posting my experience, hopefully the newer guns are better.


Yes, your experience is definitely unfortunate. But just to be fair, Dave Dawson just left STI not even a month ago. He was still there when your gun went in for repair. He also was not running CS or other aspects of day-to-day. He was there to help train gunsmiths and streamline production facilities and improve production quality.

Have you called them between 8am-3:30pm? I recently sent them a note, because I needed some info, about what the lobe length on the slide stop in my gun is. They let me know that their CS hours and tech response hours are only between 8 and 3:30 CST M-Th. I did end up with an odd note responding saying, "Slide stops are caliber specific. I don't know which yours is. But any 1911 slide stop to your caliber should work." After I told them directly it was a 9mm gun. :rolleyes: - It ended up moot, because the only reason I sent them the email in the first place was because I couldn't find my calipers to measure the lobe and confirm it was a 9mm slide stop, instead of a .45 (some companies only use the .45 stop). In the interim, I found the calipers and had already measured the piece and ordered a replacement.

Given that STI is in process of training a host of new gunsmiths and still evolving/settling on their product line, it wouldn't surprise me if there are QC issues currently or from time-to-time over the next 12-24 months. I would give them another 18-months of production, before I leapt in on a new STI.

FYI - they did hire Eddie Garcia (https://www.emgcustoms.com/) to serve on their gunsmith advisory board and in gunsmith training. That's great news and if anyone knows Eddie personally (I don't, just by reputation), you may reach out and see what he has to say about the changes in QC, etc.

[Default.mp3]

We as a company came under new management in January 2018, the entire executive staff is now all prior/retired military, to include myself, as the director of leo/mil sales, and am a retired Marine. Our guns made since March of 2018 are nothing like any of the QC nightmare stuff that had been put out for the previous decade. We have submitted, completed, and won numerous leo test an evals in excess of 50,000 ads of testing to certain guns. All with factory guns, not tuned, or treated any different in manufacturing for the evals. Since last summer I have put a little over 3,000 STI's into leo hands for duty use. I think most people will be surprised at a couple of the larger contracts that i just secured last week, that have not been announced yet. As far as round counts, Long Beach SWAT and the US Marshals Special Operations Group (SOG) have the highest round count on T&E guns prior to, and after fielding our guns. LBPD still has the 3 T&E guns I left with them a year ago, and all are at very high round counts on original, untuned, factory magazines.

As far as holsters, yes safari land is dragging their feet...short of modding an existing safari land for a railed 1911, you have weber tactical, midwest tactical solutions, long shadow holsters making level 2/3 holsters for our guns. Blackpoint Tactical also makes a level 2 safariland type for leo only.

Any questions let me know.


The duo system replaced the host system,. Duo was 100% engineered by Dave Dawson, and trademarked by him as well, as it allows the optic to retain zero when removed and re-mounted to the gun.

yes, a lapd metro officer had in ois about 7 weeks ago with his sti. He now swears by the platform. His gun was only in time out for a week as well...not months as some people fear. This particular officer had been in three previous ois that I am aware of, one of which was with a glock 35, which malfunctioned on him, and had been carrying a custom springfield trp since that incident prior to crossing over to a 2011.

At this time almost every specialized unit within lapd has purchased 2011’s from me directly.



All of our high round count tests have passed with the new factory mag, which is all I run. I do have a couple of taran basepads, and dawson basepads that i use occasionally. Most malfunctions Inhave seen with new guns are actually from other manufacturers mags, or aftermarket mag parts. As far as a high rd count with no malfunctions, there is a gun being tested in NC that went over 8k with no malfunctions and no cleaning, only lubed. As far as other agencies Long beach PD has been keeping a pretty good record, and I believe the last I was told was 5 or 6 malfunctions in the first 30k, all attributed to old mags.

Source: https://www.lightfighter.net/topic/current-state-of-the-sti-2011-platform?page=1

[EricP]

I've purchased two low round count STI's in the past year. An Edge and a DVC Limited. The Edge has been troubled free so far but I only have about 1500 rounds through it.

The DVC Limited is currently on its second trip to STI in less than 500 rounds. The Bomar rear sight kept moving in the dovetail and they had a new one fitted and back to me in a week. Then the trigger weight started dropping, it went from a 2lb trigger to about a pound in the course of a couple hundred rounds. While this was going on the grip safety stopped worked. The very tip of it cracked and appeared to be an MIM component. It's been at STI since May with no word from them after 3 emails and a voicemail.

It seems like things were getting better while Dave Dawson was taking control of things. He left recently and based on my experience, the customer service left with him. If you buy one purchase a backup gun and hope that one works as well. Their QC seems to be spotty, depending on when your gun was manufactured. I'm not bashing the company, just posting my experience, hopefully the newer guns are better.

This is unfortunate. I'm very close to buying a DVC - Limited. For $3,000, I have pretty high expectations.

On a separate note, how are STI magazines? Everyone I know with a 2011 uses MBX mags. Those are not inexpensive either.

[andre3k]

This is unfortunate. I'm very close to buying a DVC - Limited. For $3,000, I have pretty high expectations.

On a separate note, how are STI magazines? Everyone I know with a 2011 uses MBX mags. Those are not inexpensive either.I haven't had a single issue with the magazines. I use both the Gen 1 and Gen 2 mag bodies. I run Grams followers and base pads in the gen 1 mags without issue. The gen 2 mags are completely stock. I haven't felt a need to go for the MBX mags yet.

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[RevolverRob]

Current factory mags are GTG in my experience. At least in 9mm.

I have a bunch of Gen 1 mags, I'm still tuning a few of them. Reminds me I need to get a Dawson Tuning Kit.

[Paul Sharp]

During 2014 I carried an STI Edge 40 as an EDC experiment. I carried it everyday for a year. I loved it. Zero malfunctions related to the pistol. I had a fairly bad malfunction during the Rangemaster Tactical Conference match that was due to bad ammo. Other than that, zero issues in multiple classes, a few matches, and for department proficiency shoots.

I wouldn't hesitate to carry that pistol again. The JM AIWB holster for the 2011 is superb and allowed me to conceal a fairly large pistol on a daily basis. At work I carried it in a G21 Safariland SLS holster we modified.

[JonInWA]

Their website seems to imply that STI users/target audience either wears shiny team jerseys or sports operator beards and multiple tattoos...

I'm kinda curious how a bull-barrel staggered box magazine 1911 holds up in duty/real-world use. The info from Buck8154 is impressive, but my personal perception is that STI is primarily oriented and marketed towards the USPSA crowd.

My idea of a reliable, durable double-column .45 ACP for duty/hard use centers around things like a Glock G21 and HK HK45 and USP, but I'm willing to be open-minded (But yeah, I'm pretty skeptical here from what I'm seeing).

I'm not saying that they're inordinately expensive for what they are, but they are spendy little puppies; a cursory look at their offerings indicates 1 at $1,500, one at $2,000, and the rest north (and some well north) of $3,000...

And whenever I see magazines described in millimeters instead of round capacity, I automatically think "Racegun." And likely expensive. My thoughts are that Ferraris rarely do particularly well as daily drivers...

Best, Jon

[JodyH]

I've been playing around with a borrowed DVC-3 9mm that has been well used and borderline abused by its owner and I like it so much i've almost clicked "submit order" several times on a DVC-C 9mm.
Only thing stopping me is that little voice in my head telling me that it really doesn't do anything that much better than my 19X for my purposes.

[RevolverRob]

My idea of a reliable, durable double-column .45 ACP for duty/hard use centers around things like a Glock G21 and HK HK45 and USP, but I'm willing to be open-minded (But yeah, I'm pretty skeptical here from what I'm seeing).

I don't know anyone who is using a .45 STI. Typically either .40 for USPSA Limited with Major scoring or 9mm because more bullets and less recoil.


Only thing stopping me is that little voice in my head telling me that it really doesn't do anything that much better than my 19X for my purposes.

It probably doesn't. But it's cooler than a 19X any day of the week.

And it's more fun to shoot. Obviously...you've enjoyed it enough to be heavily tempted.

[CDFIII]

I have a STI Staccato P Duo. just picked it up about 3 weeks ago. Once I got the RMR mounted and sighted in it's been hard to put it down and shoot my other guns.I have two range trips with around 1000rds through it so far. Absolutely not close to a high round count by any means but I plan on changing that. The trigger is good around 4.5 lbs. on my finger scale. Fit is tight and finish is great with no nasty tool marks. Thumb safety is positive on/off and fit nicely. Duo optic system is a slick design and seems well thought out. I have witness marked my screws just to be sure nothing backs out. Mags are 17 and 20 rds have been trouble free so far. Picked up a couple extra during 4th of July sales. So far I really like it and I look forward to actually shooting this gun and seeing how it shakes out for me.

[shane45]

My recent STI matches the quality of my Ed Brown except in the trigger. The trigger on the STI is better than my EB!

[andre3k]

Have you called them between 8am-3:30pm?

Yeah, it took me to a menu and then it went to VM. I left a message but I'll give it another try tomorrow.



Given that STI is in process of training a host of new gunsmiths and still evolving/settling on their product line, it wouldn't surprise me if there are QC issues currently or from time-to-time over the next 12-24 months. I would give them another 18-months of production, before I leapt in on a new STI.

My Edge was manufactured around 2005 and the DVC was made around 2013, so who knows what was going into their guns around those times frames. I've read on Enos that at some point STI was importing a lot of their components. I don't think that's the case right now since they've trimmed their product lines significantly. The DVC is my primary USPSA Limited gun and the Edge is my backup gun, I'm probably going to switch to a steel frame at some point and the warranty will be out the window anyway.

[RevolverRob]

Yeah, it took me to a menu and then it went to VM. I left a message but I'll give it another try tomorrow.



My Edge was manufactured around 2005 and the DVC was made around 2013, so who knows what was going into their guns around those times frames. I've read on Enos that at some point STI was importing a lot of their components. I don't think that's the case right now since they've trimmed their product lines significantly. The DVC is my primary USPSA Limited gun and the Edge is my backup gun, I'm probably going to switch to a steel frame at some point and the warranty will be out the window anyway.

IIRC - from 2007'ish to about 2012 they imported a lot of their small parts from Armscor in the Philippines. That was also about the point where Dave Skinner retired as CEO (2010). From 2010-2018, STI had three CEOs and substantial ownership changes, they went from an Employee-Owned company to being purchased by a private equity group in 2017.

What we're seeing now is the STI that was purchased in 2017 and has had solid leadership and a clear direction since then is moving towards profitability and quality.

Around 2013 would be a bad STI era. That was end of Tim Dillon as CEO era. He had fired most of the senior gunsmiths by then, trimmed production down, they had "parts fitters" building guns not gunsmiths, but they didn't have a simplified product line. It didn't get much better under Greg Mooney who replaced Dillon in 2014. But of course, the STI board of directors had some weird ideas then, they seemed to think Mooney would help them land the MHS contract...for whatever reason. I don't think it's a coincidence that Mooney was fired in 2017, shortly after the company was sold and everyone knew by then SIG had won the contract. But at least during Mooney's era they simplified the product line and doubled down on their commitment to the competition market AND they got the Gen 2 mags out during that time, which has been a real and much needed improvement. Frankly, if they could have brought those mags out in 2010, STI would have been able to shed the "unreliable" misnomer years ago.

[HCM]

From what I can gather open source, the original HOST used MOS type plates but allowed the optic to sit lower than most MOS type systems.

Here is a detailed review of the original HOST system from Sept 2018: https://spotterup.com/sti-tactical-h-o-s-t-hands-on/

The DUO or HOST II system is like that found on the SIG M17/18/X series guns. Basic rear sight is part of the no optics cover plate. Remove it and the basic cut is for direct mount of a DPP pro. No BUIS - it’s intended to use a BUIS mounted to the rear dovetail of the DPP. I heard there may be an Dawson DPP pro rear BUIS which is supposed to be an improvement over the Leupold factor BUIS,

Gun also comes with an adaptor plate for RMR footprint optics with a built in BUIS. The adaptor plate has bosses to support the optic kind of like the C&H aftermarket MOS plates and supposedly has an improved mounting geometry.

This video from Jim Dexter gives a good overview of the DUO system.


https://youtu.be/1nDUqEQH714

[willie]

Isn't Sti owned by a holding company? If so, there are bean counters with great say so.

[RevolverRob]

Isn't Sti owned by a holding company? If so, there are bean counters with great say so.

In the most technical sense.

It's a Private Equity Firm that owns STI currently. And that is, as I understand the agreement, a buy up of controlling interest with investment capital to get the company solvent. The PEF will collect it's profit, and then the Employee Owners of STI will buy them back out, after the infusion of cash, management turnover, and profitability come.

It's a smart move for a company owned by its employees who do not necessarily have the financial standing to substantially improve their own company.

In that sense, yes there are bean counters. But since the PEF profits both from their investment and the sale back of a profitable company, it's in their interest to walk the margin of profitability and production quality.

And technically all companies have bean counters with great say so. If you don't turn a profit, you never grow.

[spinmove_]

In the most technical sense.

It's a Private Equity Firm that owns STI currently. And that is, as I understand the agreement, a buy up of controlling interest with investment capital to get the company solvent. The PEF will collect it's profit, and then the Employee Owners of STI will buy them back out, after the infusion of cash, management turnover, and profitability come.

It's a smart move for a company owned by its employees who do not necessarily have the financial standing to substantially improve their own company.

In that sense, yes there are bean counters. But since the PEF profits both from their investment and the sale back of a profitable company, it's in their interest to walk the margin of profitability and production quality.

And technically all companies have bean counters with great say so. If you don't turn a profit, you never grow.

It’s also really hard to maintain even a stagnant business that does nothing but bleed cash. Just sayin’.


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[JodyH]

It probably doesn't. But it's cooler than a 19X any day of the week.

And it's more fun to shoot. Obviously...you've enjoyed it enough to be heavily tempted.
But that DVC-C would end up costing me around $10,000+.
Because when I change platforms I go all in (carry, competition and all-around) because i'm a simple man who gets confused easily and don't want to be swapping back and forth between different triggers and controls.
So that awesome little DVC-C would quickly have a few friends.
Staccato-P for training and nightstand and a DVC-3 or L for competition along with another couple grand in support gear.

Is that 2011 worth another $10k over my 19X.... maybe.... must hide AMEX card :p

[Rc217]

Is there any issue with frequent dry fire practice with these newer 2011’s?

[RevolverRob]

Is there any issue with frequent dry fire practice with these newer 2011’s?

Shouldn't be. They are just 1911s with a wider grip frame.

The only distinct "2011" parts are the frame, grip frame, mainspring housing, mainspring housing pin, trigger, magazine release, magazine, and grip safety. All the other parts are 1911 parts. None of those should have issues caused by dry fire.

[RevolverRob]

FYI - for anyone still thinking more data points that "modern" STI is on the way to better places -

Scott Jedlinski (Modern Samurai Project) notes that he has had a dozen STIs in class over the last year, Staccatos and Omnis, with zero failures. That's ~1000 rounds per gun of empirical data, perhaps not the highest round counts out there, but when you start getting double-digit sample sizes with zero failures, you're moving in the right direction. Scott also notes he is not an STI shooter and doesn't own an STI, suggesting a more unbiased opinion.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0Ue0ezAPOV/

___

Also, according to STI, the U.S. Marshals Special Operations Group has just adopted a special version of the Staccato P in 9mm.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0Us8Tjn9JC/

____

And it appears Long Beach PD SWAT will in fact move to adopt STIs - Their evaluation here: https://stiguns.com/longbeach-swat-evaluation-of-the-sti-tactical/

___

It's all looking positive overall. Which makes me happy, because I've long loved STIs. This admittedly biased update comes from a guy wearing an STI-based gun right now.

[Amp]

GUNS.COM article on the USMS SOG adopting the STI Staccato-P-DUO:

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/07/24/exclusive-u-s-marshals-special-operations-group-adopts-sti-2011-pistols?fbclid=IwAR1jHBrl8Wh5sTCKIEJ1DIe23QJN5Xd6S k_iskrlGlPuoVvU4ECRlj9rCYI

[RAM Engineer]

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/07/24/exclusive-u-s-marshals-special-operations-group-adopts-sti-2011-pistols

[RAM Engineer]

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/07/24/exclusive-u-s-marshals-special-operations-group-adopts-sti-2011-pistols

Whoops. AMP beat me too it.

[Bergeron]

Seeing Jedlinski’s post was very interesting, and I was not aware of the U.S. Marshall’s acquisition. I’m a little unclear on the Staccato guns, do either of them come with an aluminum frame, and are they 4-inch guns that require bull barrels, or are they Commander 4.25-inch guns that could use a bushing?

[RevolverRob]

Seeing Jedlinski’s post was very interesting, and I was not aware of the U.S. Marshall’s acquisition. I’m a little unclear on the Staccato guns, do either of them come with an aluminum frame, and are they 4-inch guns that require bull barrels, or are they Commander 4.25-inch guns that could use a bushing?

The STI frame is a two piece affair. The serialized portion of an STI frame is quite small being just framerails and a feed ramp, really. Some are aluminum some steel. I think the current production is aluminum. :https://www.speedshooter.com/product_detail.cfm?id=BCG-FRAMES-&n=Brazos-Custom-Modular-Double-Stack-Frames

The grip frames from STI are all polymer these days. They have made aluminum in the past. . But you can replace them with aftermarket steel or aluminum grips, be aware they are expensive (5-600 for a stainless steel Cheely rig). The steel ones add real weight to the gun weighting 10+ ounces more than poly of aluminum. Aluminum adds maybe 2 ounces.

STI uses only bull barrels these days, no bushings in their lineup. The Staccato guns are both 4” guns, the difference the C is single stack, the P is double stack. All the Omni guns are double stack.

Because the frame rail dimensions on an STI are 1911-spec, a good smith can easily fit you any kind of 1911 upper. The gun I was carrying today is an STI double stack lower, with a true Commander-length, bushing equipped, upper on top.

[Bergeron]

STI uses only bull barrels these days, no bushings in their lineup. The Staccato guns are both 4” guns, the difference the C is single stack, the P is double stack. All the Omni guns are double stack.

Because the frame rail dimensions on an STI are 1911-spec, a good smith can easily fit you any kind of 1911 upper. The gun I was carrying today is an STI double stack lower, with a true Commander-length, bushing equipped, upper on top.

Yes, your STI has been a very interesting gun to read about, and I appreciate your posts about it.. I was only using 5” steel 1911s for a while, and now that I’ve also gotten into Glocks, I’m curious to see how a plastic-grip, aluminum-frame 2011 compares weight wise to G17s and G19s, or perhaps more equivalently to that Zev OZ-9. I remember a past P-F member who had dotted, threaded barrel Commander 2011, but I seem to recall that it was a steel frame.

This next generation of 2011 magazines without the inserts seem to be a real step forward.

[RevolverRob]

Yes, your STI has been a very interesting gun to read about, and I appreciate your posts about it.. I was only using 5” steel 1911s for a while, and now that I’ve also gotten into Glocks, I’m curious to see how a plastic-grip, aluminum-frame 2011 compares weight wise to G17s and G19s, or perhaps more equivalently to that Zev OZ-9. I remember a past P-F member who had dotted, threaded barrel Commander 2011, but I seem to recall that it was a steel frame.

This next generation of 2011 magazines without the inserts seem to be a real step forward.

Weight wise - they are a few ounces heavier unloaded at about 30. The DVC Omni with the comp built in is ~33 ounces unloaded.

[ranger]

This thread is killing me. I have wanted a S_I carry gun for years but have been telling myself that my M&Ps are plenty good enough (especially with the M&P 2.0).

[MGW]

The Staccato P seems to be pretty hard to find right now. A local dealer had a couple Staccato C’s several weeks ago. Nice feeling pistol and much smaller than I expected. Uses standard 9mm officer magazines from what I gather.

I’ve been tempted by 2011’s in the past but the cost of two guns, $50 to $75 magazines, holsters etc freaks me out a little bit. Especially when the idea of it maybe running and maybe not running has been an issue in the past.

The new STI’s are certainly tempting though.

[Willard]

Website says C is aluminum frame. Unsure on P...doesn't say. Anyone know?

[CDFIII]

Website says C is aluminum frame. Unsure on P...doesn't say. Anyone know?

All the P's are steel framed guns.

[Willard]

All the P's are steel framed guns.

Thank you. Without going on a tangent are the parts forged or MIM?

[CDFIII]

A bit of both I believe. All the ones I have seen and owned have been superb as far as fit and machining. The one time I needed CS support it was a simple phone call and my part was at my door in 3 days. They even sent me a follow up email just to make sure everything was GTG.

[awp_101]

The STI frame is a two piece affair. The serialized portion of an STI frame is quite small being just framerails and a feed ramp, really. Some are aluminum some steel. I think the current production is aluminum. :https://www.speedshooter.com/product_detail.cfm?id=BCG-FRAMES-&n=Brazos-Custom-Modular-Double-Stack-Frames

Because the frame rail dimensions on an STI are 1911-spec, a good smith can easily fit you any kind of 1911 upper. The gun I was carrying today is an STI double stack lower, with a true Commander-length, bushing equipped, upper on top.
A link and and information that is bound to get me in trouble...:eek:

[Artemas2]

Looks like the Staccato P 5 inch is finally starting to come out. Although this one sounds like it was a shipping accident.
Youtube guy says it's "super smooth!" :rolleyes:

https://youtu.be/lgrwM0dfoFY

[Warrior45]

I have been looking at a DVC-P really hard, I just don’t know if it’s worth the $4000 MSRP. Anyone have time with one and what are your thoughts?

[BK14]

I have been looking at a DVC-P really hard, I just don’t know if it’s worth the $4000 MSRP. Anyone have time with one and what are your thoughts?

Frank proctor on his Instagram has been shooting that model a lot. He may have more up on Frank Proctor TV as well. I’ve only briefly played around with its predecessor, the Costa Comp, so I have little to add from actual use, sorry.

[BigD]

Frank proctor on his Instagram has been shooting that model a lot. He may have more up on Frank Proctor TV as well. I’ve only briefly played around with its predecessor, the Costa Comp, so I have little to add from actual use, sorry.

STI sponsors him.

[BK14]

STI sponsors him.

Yeah, I’m about 99% sure he gets those guns for free. Doesn’t mean he’s not a man of integrity that can share the results of shooting a high volume of rounds through these guns.

He’s sponsored by BCM as well I believe, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t make excellent quality rifles that I trust my life to. Just trying to give a resource of info.

[SteveB]

If you love 1911/2011’s, STI’s are hard to beat. I borrowed a DVC 3-gun model last year and ran it against a Mink custom Shadow and an X-Five with a Grayguns trigger on the timer. Speed stuff, bullseye, steel, lots of reloading. I shot the Shadow SA, for more of an apples-to-apples comparison, and, for the most part, it was the clear winner. STI’s are a big investment; guns, mags are expensive, but for 1911 devotees, they’re a great choice.

41308

[BigD]

Yeah, I’m about 99% sure he gets those guns for free. Doesn’t mean he’s not a man of integrity that can share the results of shooting a high volume of rounds through these guns.

He’s sponsored by BCM as well I believe, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t make excellent quality rifles that I trust my life to. Just trying to give a resource of info.

We are talking about STI quality control issues or lack there of.

I would hope I don’t need explain why a sponsored shooter isn’t the best source for unbiased information.

[BK14]

We are talking about STI quality control issues or lack there of.

I would hope I don’t need explain why a sponsored shooter isn’t the best source for unbiased information.

Whoa, no need to try to belittle me sir. I was replying to a specific question, asking if anyone had time behind a DVC-P, and if it was worth it. While clearly QA is a significant part of the question, that’s not the only aspect behind a “is it worth it” type of question. The other side has to do with how does it shoot, and specifically to the DVC-P does the comp reduce recoil and maintain reliability in a way that justifies the cost.

Frank can’t necessarily answer the QA aspect to Warrior45’s question, but since there were no other resources posted from others on this gun, I think looking into seeing what input he has would be a decent place to start researching. From a purely performance side at least.

Sponsorship does not mean a product is worthless, just that you need to take what’s said with a grain of salt.

[shane45]

Warrior45, I have the Costa Carrry Comp in 9 which is basically the same pistol, different cosmetics I believe(and the optics cut). I was amazed at how good this pistol is. I am a hard core 1911 guy. The trigger is better than my Ed Brown and my buddies Wilson. The lockup is tight, the fitting is very good but most importantly it shoots exceptionally well. But worth is very subjective and includes factors well outside the actual item in question. 4k to one person may be a crazy number but to others its not much. So the comfort level and availability of disposable income become a factor. So to anyone contemplating such a purchase I would say, does buying it leave you with no money to shoot or train for a really long time? If yes then it might not be worth it. But if it has no impact on the other necessities then I would give it a healthy consideration. Its an excellent pistol.

[BigD]

Sponsorship does not mean a product is worthless, .

No one said it does. Calm down.

[LittleLebowski]

And back to tech discussion :)

[Warrior45]

Frank proctor on his Instagram has been shooting that model a lot. He may have more up on Frank Proctor TV as well. I’ve only briefly played around with its predecessor, the Costa Comp, so I have little to add from actual use, sorry.

Thank you, I will check him out.

[Warrior45]

Warrior45, I have the Costa Carrry Comp in 9 which is basically the same pistol, different cosmetics I believe(and the optics cut). I was amazed at how good this pistol is. I am a hard core 1911 guy. The trigger is better than my Ed Brown and my buddies Wilson. The lockup is tight, the fitting is very good but most importantly it shoots exceptionally well. But worth is very subjective and includes factors well outside the actual item in question. 4k to one person may be a crazy number but to others its not much. So the comfort level and availability of disposable income become a factor. So to anyone contemplating such a purchase I would say, does buying it leave you with no money to shoot or train for a really long time? If yes then it might not be worth it. But if it has no impact on the other necessities then I would give it a healthy consideration. Its an excellent pistol.

I have also been checking reviews and looking online for any information I can get on the DVC-P, Costa Carry Comp and the Omni. There really isn’t a lot of info out there. I have handled a couple STI’s and I am very impressed. I am very intrigued by these three pistols. I am just looking for more first hand accounts before I drop that much money. If I pick up one of these comped guns it wouldn’t hurt my ammo/training budget too much. Thanks for all the replies so far!

[ranger]

You will find out a lot more about STI and SVI pistols on the Brian Enos forum as the S_I have been seen as competition pistols - yes they have duty use also but I suspect MOST STI are competition oriented.

I have a older STI framed 45 2011 that I like a lot but "STI" seems to have gone through a reorganization and refocusing so it would be interesting to get feedback on the most recent STI offerings.

[Warrior45]

You will find out a lot more about STI and SVI pistols on the Brian Enos forum as the S_I have been seen as competition pistols - yes they have duty use also but I suspect MOST STI are competition oriented.

I have a older STI framed 45 2011 that I like a lot but "STI" seems to have gone through a reorganization and refocusing so it would be interesting to get feedback on the most recent STI offerings.

I am more interested in the latest STI’s and how they hold up to duty use. Really interested to hear how the Staccatos hold up to USMS SOG use over the years.

[usmc_k9_vet]

Website says C is aluminum frame. Unsure on P...doesn't say. Anyone know?


All the P's are steel framed guns.

Is this accurate? My Staccato P DUO 9mm is not a steel-framed gun. Mine has a polymer frame. The serialized portion may be steel, I am not sure, but these are not 100% steel guns, if that is what you are after. As stated in a previous comment, if that is what you want you will need a grip like the Cheely Custom or similar.

[CDFIII]

Is this accurate? My Staccato P DUO 9mm is not a steel-framed gun. Mine has a polymer frame. The serialized portion may be steel, I am not sure, but these are not 100% steel guns, if that is what you are after. As stated in a previous comment, if that is what you want you will need a grip like the Cheely Custom or similar.

I guess we are both technically right. The actual frame containing the rails the slide rides on is steel on my P. The grip module attached to the steel frame is polymer. I have seen some aftermarket all steel/ aluminum frames in the past but unsure of the manufacturer.

[usmc_k9_vet]

I also find it interesting the price difference between the Staccato line and the DVC line. For instance, at my local gun store they have a Staccato P DUO 9mm (exactly like mine) and a DVC-P 9mm which also has the optic cut system. The Staccato P is $2499 and the DVC is $3399. The only differences between the two are the Staccato P comes with a magwell and the DVC-P has some cutouts in the slide. Other than that, they are identical pistols and the Staccato P even has an upgrade over the DVC-P (the magwell). They both also have complete IonBond finishes on the metal parts.

So my question is, why the huge price difference? You're not, in my opinion, getting $900 more gun with the DVC line. I understand with the OMNI and some of the other models that have the island comp barrel, but with the two pistols I saw, they were almost identical, one was just $900 more than the other one.

I think the Staccato P DUO 9mm is one of the best deals in the 1911/2011 market right now. I did not like a lot of STIs old products and was very hesitant to purchase one for years, but I saw a lot of good things regarding the Staccato P and with their DUO system and three mags for under $2500, I jumped on the one I have. It has a Holosun 507c on top (very pleasantly surprised with this optic as well for $250) and about 1500 rounds through it now with no cleaning. All I do is add some Wilson Combat light oil and then shoot it more. The gun is extremely smooth. I don't neglect cleaning my firearms, but when they simply do not feel like they need to be cleaned, I don't do it. I would rather just add more oil and shoot on. The trigger on mine is also very nice and comparable to $3000-5000 1911s I have owned. YMMV.

[usmc_k9_vet]

I guess we are both technically right. The actual frame containing the rails the slide rides on is steel on my P. The grip module attached to the steel frame is polymer. I have seen some aftermarket all steel/ aluminum frames in the past but unsure of the manufacturer.

Ok we are on the same page. I just wanted to make sure that anyone reading this that is interested in one understands that the grip is polymer.

Thank you for your response.

[usmc_k9_vet]

I figured this thread could use some pictures. Hope y’all don’t mind!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/4778c8b12079ed8bd196861ca4fd646d.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/b96576150c5ddc0387fe2bda58bcdbc1.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/45ee3684d5d96958e946730b6640b95a.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/3e3ec82f87953fa22f33d9443f84b6ad.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/76b6a95741414d3b7baa635e0623d414.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/02ebad1f0c3dbd0c45af186d721ff19b.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/fef243b22b65ad0d4a1840156a9c9253.jpg


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[spinmove_]

STI’s site says the Staccato-C is an aluminum frame, but does not appear to say what material the Staccato-P is made of.


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[usmc_k9_vet]

STI’s site says the Staccato-C is an aluminum frame, but does not appear to say what material the Staccato-P is made of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The frame is polymer. The frame rails are steel. The slide and small parts are steel.


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[BigT]

The frame is polymer. The frame rails are steel. The slide and small parts are steel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


None of the 2011's have polymer frames. Many if not most have plastic grips, but the frames are steel or aluminium. The assembly with the rails is the frame, the lower section bolted onto that is the grip.

[usmc_k9_vet]

None of the 2011's have polymer frames. Many if not most have plastic grips, but the frames are steel or aluminium. The assembly with the rails is the frame, the lower section bolted onto that is the grip.

Ok ya got me there. What I meant was that the grip is polymer.

[zeleny]

I'm kinda curious how a bull-barrel staggered box magazine 1911 holds up in duty/real-world use. The info from Buck8154 is impressive, but my personal perception is that STI is primarily oriented and marketed towards the USPSA crowd.I cannot speak for STI, or any widebody .45ACP pistols, but this SVI Infinity (https://photos.app.goo.gl/Z5G6U4IPQDsPre362) is my all-purpose go-to handgun, except for deep concealment.

41423

[Artemas2]

P&S modcast interview with STI. Just started live now, hopefully it will turn out to be interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12KQ-6p4rLE

[claymore504]

I have owned a couple STI guns over the years. I currently only own one 1911 and it is an STI Ranger II 45ACP and I will never let it go. I have never had an issue with it. I would get another STI for sure. The Podcast was interesting for sure and worth listening to.


My STI Ranger II:
https://i.imgur.com/uOixMJ3.jpg?1

[andre3k]

After listening to the podcast I'm really interested in the Staccato P Duo. I'm still concerned about their customer service. They've had my DVC Limited for almost 4 months for a broken grip safety with very little communication. That would be an unacceptable downtime for a duty weapon.



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[BigD]

STI is stepping up their marketing to the tactical market, which explains why my IG feed is now full of STI tags.

https://stiguns.com/tactical-team-2011/

Don’t think many of the guys in the page above were shooting STIs 5 or 6 months ago (based on my observation from IG.)

(Before someone gets their jimmies in a bunch, that some or most of those guys weren’t shooting STIs previously in and of itself doesnt say anything about STI.)

[Kyle Reese]

After listening to the podcast I'm really interested in the Staccato P Duo. I'm still concerned about their customer service. They've had my DVC Limited for almost 4 months for a broken grip safety with very little communication. That would be an unacceptable downtime for a duty weapon.



Sent from my SM-G965U using TapatalkSame. I sent Buck an email inquiring about LE prices on the Staccato P and P Duo. I'm intrigued....

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[paherne]

Same. I sent Buck an email inquiring about LE prices on the Staccato P and P Duo. I'm intrigued....

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Mine should be arriving any day. I'll let you know how it does; don't know if I'm gonna do the 2000 round challenge, though.

[rathos]

Kyle,

Buck is usually pretty good about getting back to folks. The price is 15% off MSRP and you can order 2 per year. If you want to PM me your email I can forward you the order form.



Same. I sent Buck an email inquiring about LE prices on the Staccato P and P Duo. I'm intrigued....

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[EVP]

I got to put a few hundred rounds through a Staccato P and it is a nice gun but don’t see the big deal with these duty type 2011s.

I am all for another quality option out there (especially 1911/2011 stuff) and if they are working for people then rock on. But I cannot help think if there is more hype then substance with these type guns.

I also shot it side by side with my gen 5 g45 and really came away more impressed with the g45 then the STI, which is probably heresy to some.

Of course the trigger is going to play a part in how these guns shoot, obviously a apples to orange comparison. Nice trigger on the Staccato P. A few times it had me rolling through the Glock trigger press wondering when it is going to break. On the recoil side of things the gun recoils soft but this is were I was more impressed by the G45 then the STI. When I put on the x300u on the g45, which is how I carry it, the recoil was very similar to each other and any difference was negligible. Even without the WML off the recoil was still close and is something that is not even a consideration for me. Overall they are nice guns that are another option for people who want to run a 1911/2011 type gun.

[BigD]

I got to put a few hundred rounds through a Staccato P and it is a nice gun but don’t see the big deal with these duty type 2011s.

I am all for another quality option out there (especially 1911/2011 stuff) and if they are working for people then rock on. But I cannot help think if there is more hype then substance with these type guns.

.

Too much hype? I don’t know. Maybe they are the cats pajamas. But given there some 765,000 LEOs in the US, and maybe 100-200 (??) are carrying the new STIs, any idea that STI is taking the tactical world by storm is premature. What’s that? 0.0002%?

As someone that started USPSA 15 or so years ago, I’ve seen countless STIs choke. They may have fixed the “mags must be tuned before using”, but the guns were also sensitive to OAL and needed extractors tuned frequently. Some gunsmiths made their living getting STIs to run consistently.

It would take a lot of data for me to trust my life with one given what I’ve seen in the past, regardless of new management or how many podcasts the brand manager goes on, or how many IG shooter have them.
(My agency would never switch to a STI and so it’s really just a thought exercise for me.)

[shane45]

"As someone that started USPSA 15 or so years ago, I’ve seen countless STIs choke. They may have fixed the “mags must be tuned before using”, but the guns were also sensitive to OAL and needed extractors tuned frequently. Some gunsmiths made their living getting STIs to run consistently. "

One consideration to this statement. Saying that competition 2011's has a correlation to current factory carry guns reliability is a bit like saying Honda civic reliability is in question due to all the issues observed at the import tuner races at the drag strip. Additionally a metric ton of STI's in competition weren't built by STI, just built on their frame. I agree on the mags, however and as we all know, its paramount to 1911/2011 reliability. It seems they realised that and the new mags seem are likely key to the new found reliability IMO.

[BigD]

"As someone that started USPSA 15 or so years ago, I’ve seen countless STIs choke. They may have fixed the “mags must be tuned before using”, but the guns were also sensitive to OAL and needed extractors tuned frequently. Some gunsmiths made their living getting STIs to run consistently. "

One consideration to this statement. Saying that competition 2011's has a correlation to current factory carry guns reliability is a bit like saying Honda civic reliability is in question due to all the issues observed at the import tuner races at the drag strip. Additionally a metric ton of STI's in competition weren't built by STI, just built on their frame. I agree on the mags, however and as we all know, its paramount to 1911/2011 reliability. It seems they realised that and the new mags seem are likely key to the new found reliability IMO.

With all respect, that analogy doesn’t really hold up in my eyes I’m talking bog standard STI Edges in 40 where conventional wisdom is you need to buy from Dawson or Brazos and have them do a $500 tuning/reliability package before shipping. So that’s not really analogous to a Honda Civic with aftermarket forced induction or what have you. The Edges are hardly bleeding edge open guns.

To be fair, I’m sure some of the STIs I saw choke had been dickered with it or there were ammo issues - (ammo issues though doesn’t get them completely off the hook since a duty gun shouldn’t be finicky to ammo). But I know that many were unmolested guns in factory condition.

If they couldn’t make their flagship Edge reliable (at least certainly not reliable to duty standard), then what is supposed to make me think they cracked the code with the Staccato? Cause they got the guns into the hands of a few SRTs and influencers? It would take more than that.

[andre3k]

With all respect, that analogy doesn’t really hold up in my eyes I’m talking bog standard STI Edges in 40 where conventional wisdom is you need to buy from Dawson or Brazos and have them do a $500 tuning/reliability package before shipping. So that’s not really analogous to a Honda Civic with aftermarket forced induction or what have you. The Edges are hardly bleeding edge open guns.

To be fair, I’m sure some of the STIs I saw choke had been dickered with it or there were ammo issues - (ammo issues though doesn’t get them completely off the hook since a duty gun shouldn’t be finicky to ammo). But I know that many were unmolested guns in factory condition.

If they couldn’t make their flagship Edge reliable (at least certainly not reliable to duty standard), then what is supposed to make me think they cracked the code with the Staccato? Cause they got the guns into the hands of a few SRTs and influencers? It would take more than that.


STI has a whole new leadership team now. I think all of them are ex-military. Dave Dawson was even on board for a while during the leadership transition. That's why they slimmed down the product line to just a few models. Hopefully they get it right this time and have the new models running reliably. Since they are now marketing primarily to mil/le, they better have something that runs reliably because bad news travels fast.

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[Bucky]

I got to put a few hundred rounds through a Staccato P and it is a nice gun but don’t see the big deal with these duty type 2011s.

I am all for another quality option out there (especially 1911/2011 stuff) and if they are working for people then rock on. But I cannot help think if there is more hype then substance with these type guns.


STIs, dots, light triggers, and other crazy mods help you make the shots that you probably shouldn’t even consider in a real world scenario.

[shane45]

With all respect, that analogy doesn’t really hold up in my eyes I’m talking bog standard STI Edges in 40 where conventional wisdom is you need to buy from Dawson or Brazos and have them do a $500 tuning/reliability package before shipping. So that’s not really analogous to a Honda Civic with aftermarket forced induction or what have you. The Edges are hardly bleeding edge open guns.

To be fair, I’m sure some of the STIs I saw choke had been dickered with it or there were ammo issues - (ammo issues though doesn’t get them completely off the hook since a duty gun shouldn’t be finicky to ammo). But I know that many were unmolested guns in factory condition.

If they couldn’t make their flagship Edge reliable (at least certainly not reliable to duty standard), then what is supposed to make me think they cracked the code with the Staccato? Cause they got the guns into the hands of a few SRTs and influencers? It would take more than that.



A stock Edge running factory ammo was not something I recall seeing! Even if it wasnt heavily modified, the springs were changed trying to get the most neutral return and ammo was loaded to JUST make PF. But that was the nature of competition. With all that being said, and some of your points I agree with, the new STI's seem exceptionally different from the ones I observed back in the day. I actually called STI and spoke to them. I wanted to know if my current pistol was off a special production line. The answer was that it was not. It is tight and runs great. Its build quality compared favorably with my Ed Brown for a point of reference.

[BigD]

A stock Edge running factory ammo was not something I recall seeing! Even if it wasnt heavily modified, the springs were changed trying to get the most neutral return and ammo was loaded to JUST make PF. But that was the nature of competition. With all that being said, and some of your points I agree with, the new STI's seem exceptionally different from the ones I observed back in the day. I actually called STI and spoke to them. I wanted to know if my current pistol was off a special production line. The answer was that it was not. It is tight and runs great. Its build quality compared favorably with my Ed Brown for a point of reference.

You are right that (almost) no one shoots factory ammo in Limited in USPSA. But if it were just ammo related problems,
owners wouldn’t have needed to have Brazos or Dawson do a reliability package on them.

I hate to belabor my point but before everyone that bought a good one replies to tell me so... They are fine pistols and the most popular pistol in Limited. It’s the jump from competition pistols to the tactical/duty world that has me skeptical. Is it possible they can do it Sure. But the jury is not still out. It hasn’t even been selected yet.

[shane45]

BigD, first I just want to make sure you correctly interpret my continued discussion as just discussion, not argument. I hear what your saying about Brazo's and Dawson, but time frame is relevant here. I wonder if the service is still offered on current production. From what I remember, a key point in their reliability package was mag tuning. It was common for people to buy a new STI and turn around and send all their mags in to someone like freedom gunworks for tuning. But the new mags seem to have helped a lot. But back in the day I handles a lot of STI's including my own edge. My current STI is a completely different level pistol. So there is clearly a change that has taken place. Tons of reports on the Staccato are all favorable that Ive seen.

[Tango]

Too much hype? I don’t know. Maybe they are the cats pajamas. But given there some 765,000 LEOs in the US, and maybe 100-200 (??) are carrying the new STIs, any idea that STI is taking the tactical world by storm is premature. What’s that? 0.0002%?


700,000+ guys and gals all don't get to choose what they carry OR have a limited list designed by non gun people at a HQ far, far away.

The current guns we are talking about from STI are different iterations than previous weapons. Almost a Kimber 1998 weapon vs a Kimber 2005 gun. Plenty of good information on Lightfighter regarding the new stance of the product and company.

I don't think it will supplant $450 plastic striker fired guns in mass quantity but it has caught on in several very hard places to be accepted. USMS SOG, Riverside County SWAT and Long Beach SWAT are issuing the guns. LAPD has approved the gun for duty use with specialized units including Metro, SIS and SWAT have large groups of buyers. Have we looked at any of the testing data or read why USMS SOG switched to the platform?

I for one carry a G17 for work. If the Staccato P was offered on my approved carry list, I'd give it a good look. 21 rounds, single action trigger, for maybe an ounce or two more than I am currently carrying. All in a 1911 style package that lends itself to actually shooting well rather than working around the gun? That sounds like something I want to look into and kick the tires on.

[BigD]

USMS SOG, Riverside County SWAT and Long Beach SWAT are issuing the guns. LAPD has approved the gun for duty use with specialized units including Metro, SIS and SWAT have large groups of buyers. Have we looked at any of the testing data or read why USMS SOG switched to the platform?



Not for nothing, but those units have long favored and issued 1911s. You probably know as well as I do that some orgs have biases toward particular platforms - sometimes for good reasons and sometimes for less defendable reasons (for example “We are SWAT/Special Operations. We are more qualified and need a different pistol to prove it.”)

I’ve not read anything about why USMS SOG switched. If you’ve got info that didn’t come from Buck at STI, then I’d be interested to see it.

I’ll be more impressed when agencies start turning in G17s for STIs.

[JodyH]

I kicked around getting a DVC-C for the past few weeks.
Borrowed a friends 2011 for a few days and remembered why I'm not a fan of anything with a top pivoting grip safety.
Just doing some familiarization shooting everything worked great.
As soon as I ramped up the difficulty on the draw (speed, movement, weird positions etc.) i'd fail to engage the grip safety probably 25% of the time slowing my initial shot considerably.
Getting a really high grip, thumbs forward riding the thumb safety tends to leave a gap right where there needs to be pressure to deactivate the grip safety. At least for my size L/XL but thin hands, maybe if I had more meat on my palms it'd be different.
Of course I could replace/bypass the grip safety with a SVI fixed beavertail but if I was going that direction i'd just buy a Wilson EDC X9 instead (and get a better magazine design IMO).
But neither of those has such a significant advantage over my 19X to make the changeover worth it to me.

[HCM]

I kicked around getting a DVC-C for the past few weeks.
Borrowed a friends 2011 for a few days and remembered why I'm not a fan of anything with a top pivoting grip safety.
Just doing some familiarization shooting everything worked great.
As soon as I ramped up the difficulty on the draw (speed, movement, weird positions etc.) i'd fail to engage the grip safety probably 25% of the time slowing my initial shot considerably.
Getting a really high grip, thumbs forward riding the thumb safety tends to leave a gap right where there needs to be pressure to deactivate the grip safety. At least for my size L/XL but thin hands, maybe if I had more meat on my palms it'd be different.
Of course I could replace/bypass the grip safety with a SVI fixed beavertail but if I was going that direction i'd just buy a Wilson EDC X9 instead (and get a better magazine design IMO).
But neither of those has such a significant advantage over my 19X to make the changeover worth it to me.

Some of that is hand shape as well as size. Despite meaty XXL hands I’ve had that with many 1911s but never with double stack STIs or Paras.

Individual fit is a thing. I shoot G17/45 grips best with the medium beavertail but need the large, or better yet a GFA on G19’s due to the slightly different shape.

[HCM]

You are right that (almost) no one shoots factory ammo in Limited in USPSA. But if it were just ammo related problems,
owners wouldn’t have needed to have Brazos or Dawson do a reliability package on them.

I hate to belabor my point but before everyone that bought a good one replies to tell me so... They are fine pistols and the most popular pistol in Limited. It’s the jump from competition pistols to the tactical/duty world that has me skeptical. Is it possible they can do it Sure. But the jury is not still out. It hasn’t even been selected yet.

Dave Dawson was brought back into STI as part of the new management /culture and the development of the Staccato P as adopted by USMS and other agencies. Dawson has a pretty good understanding of what is needed in a duty gun vs a completion gun. Think of these guns as having a Dawson reliability package out of the box.

Duty ammo or equivalent makes things easier as does the new magazines made by a dedicated magazine company. Why does that matter ? Well part of the complaints about 2011 reliability in completion relates to people trying to get extra rounds in mags of a certain length. The part is making consistent, reliable magazines is difficult. There is a reason big names like Colt, S&W, SIG, Beretta etc all outsource their mag production.

I took an STI factory tour a few years back and all STI mags were being made by a few members of a Vietnamese family in a corner of their shop. It would best be described as the “Gepetto” method.

[HCM]

STIs, dots, light triggers, and other crazy mods help you make the shots that you probably shouldn’t even consider in a real world scenario.

Shots that YOU (or I) shouldn’t consider in a real world scenario but neither of us are shooting 50k rounds per year or having to do hostage rescue.

Dots have other advantages in LE service which is why we will see them continue to develop until they reach the level of reliability we now see on rifle dots.

[Bucky]

Shots that YOU (or I) shouldn’t consider in a real world scenario but neither of us are shooting 50k rounds per year or having to do hostage rescue.

Dots have other advantages in LE service which is why we will see them continue to develop until they reach the level of reliability we now see on rifle dots.

Agree, HRT and the like have different needs, for sure. In their case, if a critical precise shot is needed, I hope a long arm is available. However, I realize you use what you have.

As for the 50K per year, there were a few years back in “the day” where I was darn near close.

[HCM]

Agree, HRT and the like have different needs, for sure. In their case, if a critical precise shot is needed, I hope a long arm is available. However, I realize you use what you have.

As for the 50K per year, there were a few years back in “the day” where I was darn near close.

The USMS SOG is the USMS national tactical team much like HRT. My understanding is they were issuing, or at least authorized SA PRO 1911s off the FBI/DOJ contract.

The USMS has authorized RMRs and DPP for regular deputies, the first federal agency to do so. Their current firearms and tactics staff is pretty forward thinking.

[BigD]

Dave Dawson was brought back into STI as part of the new management /culture and the development of the Staccato P as adopted by USMS and other agencies. Dawson has a pretty good understanding of what is needed in a duty gun vs a completion gun. Think of these guns as having a Dawson reliability package out of the box.

.

Except, according to this thread, Dave Dawson isn’t at STI anymore and wasn’t doing quality control when he was there.

My strong belief is that Dave Dawson could come out of retirement and tune all the STI mags and extractors and case gauge everyone’s ammo before each shift and the Stacatto still wouldn’t match the reliability of a Glock. (That it can’t match the durability of a Glock goes without saying.). The triggers will be nice though.

I say ”strong belief ” because there’s always a chance that STI cracked the code this time around and made improvements to the 1911 platform that no one else has been able to do in 100 plus years.

[JodyH]

I have no doubt STI could make a Staccato P run like a Glock for a federal contract that specified the exact ammunition that was to be utilized for training and carry.
I know many 3-Gun shooters that have ridiculous round counts on their DVC and Edge 9mm's with very few issues under harsh conditions, but their guns have been tuned to one load and one load only and are maintained by someone who gives a shit.
The STI is an enthusiasts pistol, it'll perform perfectly fine when issued to a group like USMS SOG. No way in hell would I issue them to every officer with a pulse in a department and expect them to work.

[HCM]

Except, according to this thread, Dave Dawson isn’t at STI anymore and wasn’t doing quality control when he was there.

My strong belief is that Dave Dawson could come out of retirement and tune all the STI mags and extractors and case gauge everyone’s ammo before each shift and the Stacatto still wouldn’t match the reliability of a Glock. (That it can’t match the durability of a Glock goes without saying.). The triggers will be nice though.

I say ”strong belief ” because there’s always a chance that STI cracked the code this time around and made improvements to the 1911 platform that no one else has been able to do in 100 plus years.

Dave Dawson wasn’t brought back to tune guns, he was brought back to tune their production process. Now that they are making guns “his way” he doesn’t necessarily have to be there- he can just consult if an issue develops.

The standard for a duty grade STI would be to equal the performance and reliability of a 1911 like an SA Pro. No 1911/2011 is gonna be a Glock but then again no Glock is going to have the human factors / shootability of a 1911/2011.

You set priorities and make choices accordingly.?

[BK14]

No 1911/2011 is gonna be a Glock but then again no Glock is going to have the human factors / shootability of a 1911/2011.


I use a 1911 on duty, not a 2011 (yet). I’ve had two catastrophic (part breakage) failures of my Glock 34.3 I carry on duty when not with the 1911, extraction issues on my off duty 19.4, firing pin started to seize on a 34.5 I use for training. Countless mag related failures with worn/dirty OEM and Magpul mags in competition with my 34.3. Triggers/connector components wearing into a gritty mess on multiple guns. And so on. Point being, guns break, regardless of Glock or STI. Proper maintenance helps, and yes Glock’s CAN be more reliable out of the box, but I don’t see them as some perfect holy grail of reliability and shooting ability. Just another tool that’ll break like everything else.

My 1911 is getting some upgrades (no, I don’t have a second duplicate gun, I’m a broke dumbass and looking to correct that very soon) so I’m carrying my 34.3 again. With proper maintenance, and good mags I’m confident in the gun’s reliability, same as I am with a properly setup 1911, but I shoot the 1911 better.

[Tango]

Not for nothing, but those units have long favored and issued 1911s. You probably know as well as I do that some orgs have biases toward particular platforms - sometimes for good reasons and sometimes for less defendable reasons (for example “We are SWAT/Special Operations. We are more qualified and need a different pistol to prove it.”)

I’ve not read anything about why USMS SOG switched. If you’ve got info that didn’t come from Buck at STI, then I’d be interested to see it.

I’ll be more impressed when agencies start turning in G17s for STIs.

Both the G17 and Stacatto are good guns. I personally carry a G17 for work over a P320, G19 and G26. Does that make the other guns bad? NO, it just means I feel I am best served with the G17 and set up with that gun in a comfortable way. The G19 and P320 were also NOT on the approved carry list when I made the decision. So, if someone looks at my holster and says G17 is KING, they aren't getting all the information are they? They don't even know I shoot a 1911 outside of work!

How is SOG going to 2011s somehow due to 1911 bias but HRT making a Glock decision, within a GLOCK organization spot on? We can't have it both ways! Just different guys tackling the same problem set with a different tool. We can also state HRT did NOT have the Staccato to look at when it made it's G17 decision.

I also already commented on not believing the Stacatto would replace plastic, striker fired guns! They are too cheap and check off enough boxes for non gun guys at HQ. The 1911/2011 will almost always live in a specialized unit or personal carry program at those organizations.

Watching how the Stacatto moves forward in the civ/leo/mil world should interesting.

[JodyH]

Watching how the Stacatto moves forward in the civ/leo/mil world should interesting.
The Staccato P is too large to make much headway outside of duty use.
The Staccato C has too low of a capacity for its size to be more than a niche pistol.
The DVC C is just about the perfect carry 2011 but that $3000 sticker price... yea... no.
The only way the Staccato line will go anywhere outside of specialized LE is if they integrate the Staccato upgrades into the Guardian/VIP line.

[BigD]

Both the G17 and Stacatto are good guns. I personally carry a G17 for work over a P320, G19 and G26. Does that make the other guns bad? NO, it just means I feel I am best served with the G17 and set up with that gun in a comfortable way. The G19 and P320 were also NOT on the approved carry list when I made the decision. So, if someone looks at my holster and says G17 is KING, they aren't getting all the information are they? They don't even know I shoot a 1911 outside of work!

How is SOG going to 2011s somehow due to 1911 bias but HRT making a Glock decision, within a GLOCK organization spot on? We can't have it both ways! Just different guys tackling the same problem set with a different tool. We can also state HRT did NOT have the Staccato to look at when it made it's G17 decision.

I also already commented on not believing the Stacatto would replace plastic, striker fired guns! They are too cheap and check off enough boxes for non gun guys at HQ. The 1911/2011 will almost always live in a specialized unit or personal carry program at those organizations.

Watching how the Stacatto moves forward in the civ/leo/mil world should interesting.

Speaking of having it both ways - when I point out that a statistically insignificant percentage of LEO's are carrying a SIT (only in the context that any declaration the STI is taking the tactical world by storm is premature btw), you say those LEO's don't have free will and the decision is made by non-gun guys at HQ. But when a small handful of units (that previously carried 1911s) have chosen the STI it's proof that it's passed muster?

Units that chose STI = squared away and validate the STI as a duty grade pistol.

Departments that didn't consider the STI = run by beancounters and admin boners.

Look, all my posts can be summed up as this - it's too early to tell if the STI has the reliability to be a duty grade pistol but due to the company 's history I wouldn't be an early adopter.

I'm not sure bringing up the FBI helped your post. They were a "Glock agency" (to use your words) for a long time but their SWAT and HRT still were able to chose a 1911. Until they didn't.

(Shocked 😲to learn you shoot a 1911 outside of work.)

[BigD]

I use a 1911 on duty, not a 2011 (yet). I’ve had two catastrophic (part breakage) failures of my Glock 34.3 I carry on duty when not with the 1911, extraction issues on my off duty 19.4, firing pin started to seize on a 34.5 I use for training. Countless mag related failures with worn/dirty OEM and Magpul mags in competition with my 34.3. Triggers/connector components wearing into a gritty mess on multiple guns. And so on. Point being, guns break, regardless of Glock or STI. Proper maintenance helps, and yes Glock’s CAN be more reliable out of the box, but I don’t see them as some perfect holy grail of reliability and shooting ability. Just another tool that’ll break like everything else.

My 1911 is getting some upgrades (no, I don’t have a second duplicate gun, I’m a broke dumbass and looking to correct that very soon) so I’m carrying my 34.3 again. With proper maintenance, and good mags I’m confident in the gun’s reliability, same as I am with a properly setup 1911, but I shoot the 1911 better.

It's not a question of whether a gun can break or malfunction. Of course any make can and will.

It's a question of whether one make breaks or malfunctions much more than another.

I'm surprised I have to point this out.

[shane45]

Duty double stack 1911's have been tried in the past with not so good results. I'm under the impression that is fairly well known. So for this road to get traveled again, I'm betting it had to doubly prove its self in vetting this go around.

[ranger]

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/278188-texas-ranger-sti-pistols/?tab=comments#comment-3099198

Texas Ranger group purchase STIs - 9mm, Commander and Government lengths.

[El Cid]

How is SOG going to 2011s somehow due to 1911 bias but HRT making a Glock decision, within a GLOCK organization spot on? We can't have it both ways! Just different guys tackling the same problem set with a different tool. We can also state HRT did NOT have the Staccato to look at when it made it's G17 decision.


Right or wrong (not my place to say) HRT tends to mirror what a certain SMU at Ft Bragg does. The Marshals have a proud history and tend to forge their own path. Again - not judgement, just an observation.



I kicked around getting a DVC-C for the past few weeks.
Borrowed a friends 2011 for a few days and remembered why I'm not a fan of anything with a top pivoting grip safety.
Just doing some familiarization shooting everything worked great.
As soon as I ramped up the difficulty on the draw (speed, movement, weird positions etc.) i'd fail to engage the grip safety probably 25% of the time slowing my initial shot considerably.
Getting a really high grip, thumbs forward riding the thumb safety tends to leave a gap right where there needs to be pressure to deactivate the grip safety. At least for my size L/XL but thin hands, maybe if I had more meat on my palms it'd be different.
Of course I could replace/bypass the grip safety with a SVI fixed beavertail but if I was going that direction i'd just buy a Wilson EDC X9 instead (and get a better magazine design IMO).
But neither of those has such a significant advantage over my 19X to make the changeover worth it to me.

Complete agreement here. The grip safety was a cavalry specific requirement. I have no idea why anyone still makes 1911/2011 guns with them anymore. Especially in a world with firing pin safeties. My dream custom 1911 would use “The Answer” one piece blackstrap from Novak’s.

[HCM]

Duty double stack 1911's have been tried in the past with not so good results. I'm under the impression that is fairly well known. So for this road to get traveled again, I'm betting it had to doubly prove its self in vetting this go around.

Yes, and the issue came down to mags. Neither Para nor prior STI mags were up to snuff. The fact that they were .45s and the weight of the ammo va the strength of the springs was another issue.

HK, Glock and S&W have al made reliable double stack .45s though, particularly HK. You know why ? Magazines. HK is a magazine company. Their mags are engineered for maximum reliability rather than maximum capacity.

If making good, consistent mags was easy, Colt, HK, SIG, Beretta, S&W etc would not outsource mag production.

One of STI’s changes to try and get into the LE/GOV market is they redesigned and outsourced their 2011 magazines. Which also dropped the price. So far the new production mags seem to be living up to the hype and they are $40-45 a pop rather than $75 or more.

Speaking of mags, while some of the old, in house STI mags needed tuning to run, part of the 2011s negative reputation is based on competitors trying to cram as many rounds as possible into a mag of a certain length. As we have seen with trying to cram 8 rounds into a 7 round length 1911 mag tube, 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag is not a recipe for reliability.

[Bucky]

Speaking of mags, while some of the old, in house STI mags needed tuning to run, part of the 2011s negative reputation is based on competitors trying to cram as many rounds as possible into a mag of a certain length. As we have seen with trying to cram 8 rounds into a 7 round length 1911 mag tube, 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag is not a recipe for reliability.

Truth.

On a similar note, it makes me leery of components like Mag Guts. I’ve seen quite a few posts of people using these in their carry guns, especially the smaller ones like the 43, etc.

[WobblyPossum]

The Staccato P is too large to make much headway outside of duty use.
The Staccato C has too low of a capacity for its size to be more than a niche pistol.
The DVC C is just about the perfect carry 2011 but that $3000 sticker price... yea... no.
The only way the Staccato line will go anywhere outside of specialized LE is if they integrate the Staccato upgrades into the Guardian/VIP line.

One of the articles I read about the SOG selection had a photo of the gun STI made at SOG’s request as a carry version. It was a Staccato P but it was cut down in the grip and not optic ready. It’s the last photo in this link: https://www.guns.com/news/2019/07/24/exclusive-u-s-marshals-special-operations-group-adopts-sti-2011-pistols.

I’m surprised they haven’t released it to the open market. It sounds like the solution to your concerns.

[banzaijohn]

One of the articles I read about the SOG selection had a photo of the gun STI made at SOG’s request as a carry version. It was a Staccato P but it was cut down in the grip and not optic ready. It’s the last photo in this link: https://www.guns.com/news/2019/07/24/exclusive-u-s-marshals-special-operations-group-adopts-sti-2011-pistols (https://www.guns.com/news/2019/07/24/exclusive-u-s-marshals-special-operations-group-adopts-sti-2011-pistols).

I’m surprised they haven’t released it to the open market. It sounds like the solution to your concerns.


LAPD's Revolver and Athletic Club is taking pre-orders for the "Special Forces" Model which is the SOG gun without their markings.

[Arbninftry]

One of the articles I read about the SOG selection had a photo of the gun STI made at SOG’s request as a carry version. It was a Staccato P but it was cut down in the grip and not optic ready. It’s the last photo in this link: https://www.guns.com/news/2019/07/24/exclusive-u-s-marshals-special-operations-group-adopts-sti-2011-pistols.

I’m surprised they haven’t released it to the open market. It sounds like the solution to your concerns.
The last picture-
The grip looks like a DVC Carry grip. This could just (almost) really be a DVC C with out the slide cutouts and a full length bottom dust cover.

[shane45]

I was considering just getting the regular staccato p and getting the "VIP/Carry" grip. That seems like a package that "might" be concealable enough to carry.

[usmc_k9_vet]

The last picture-
The grip looks like a DVC Carry grip. This could just (almost) really be a DVC C with out the slide cutouts and a full length bottom dust cover.

Isn’t the grip the same when you remove the magwell on the Staccato P?


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[El Cid]

Yes, and the issue came down to mags. Neither Para nor prior STI mags were up to snuff. The fact that they were .45s and the weight of the ammo va the strength of the springs was another issue.

HK, Glock and S&W have al made reliable double stack .45s though, particularly HK. You know why ? Magazines. HK is a magazine company. Their mags are engineered for maximum reliability rather than maximum capacity.

If making good, consistent mags was easy, Colt, HK, SIG, Beretta, S&W etc would not outsource mag production.

One of STI’s changes to try and get into the LE/GOV market is they redesigned and outsourced their 2011 magazines. Which also dropped the price. So far the new production mags seem to be living up to the hype and they are $40-45 a pop rather than $75 or more.

Speaking of mags, while some of the old, in house STI mags needed tuning to run, part of the 2011s negative reputation is based on competitors trying to cram as many rounds as possible into a mag of a certain length. As we have seen with trying to cram 8 rounds into a 7 round length 1911 mag tube, 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag is not a recipe for reliability.

Back in the 90’s when my Para was my only gun I quickly discovered it was their magazine springs that were my issue. The gun runs like a champ with Wolff springs in the mags. I finally just threw out the OEM springs and dropped in a Wolff in new mags.

[shane45]

No I dont believe it is. It's a little shorter and uses the 120mm mags I believe. Longer will fit of course but 120 is what fits flush.

[Arbninftry]

No I dont believe it is. It's a little shorter and uses the 120mm mags I believe. Longer will fit of course but 120 is what fits flush.


Isn’t the grip the same when you remove the magwell on the Staccato P?


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The DVC C comes with one 120mm and two 126mm, so that leads me to believe it is the same grip.

https://dawsonprecision.com/sti-2011-dvc-c/

[Ndbbm]

The DVC C comes with one 120mm and two 126mm, so that leads me to believe it is the same grip.

https://dawsonprecision.com/sti-2011-dvc-c/

I think he was replying to the person that asked if it was just the Staccato grip with the magazine funnel removed.

Jason

[Arbninftry]

I think he was replying to the person that asked if it was just the Staccato grip with the magazine funnel removed.

Jason

Ok yes I was too. The staccato P grip looks the same as the DVC CARRY WITHOUT THE MAG WELL. The other model in the article is a Staccato P without the mag well and is also the same

42392

https://news.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/USMS-SOG-STI-pistols-1-e1563918854698.jpg

Both grips look the same.

[usmc_k9_vet]

Agreed. Thanks for the responses and pics.


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[JodyH]

Pierson said they have also made a carry version of the same pistol that was non-optic bearing, by request. “So basically, we took a Staccato P and we put a shorter carry grip on it,” he said.
Doesn't say they removed the mag well, it says they put a shorter carry grip on.

[shane45]

Yes so just to clarify, taking the mag well off a regular stac p grip will not give you the same grip as the VIP, carry, or the staccato version pictured as an alternate SOG model. The real pain is STI wont sell you that grip. You have to go talk the guys at Extreme Shooters out of one.

[Amp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u0qeHPnv_E

[Cory]

I have limited experience with STI. At one of my first unsanctioned steel challenge matches I ran 1 magazine through a DVC Limited, with a home brewed 147grain load.

To date, I've never had my sights move like that. When they came back from recoil they were where I wanted to shoot next with out me consciously trying to put them there. Regardless if it was the same target or a transition to a new one. The recoil was super tame with the 147grain, the grip locked up solid, and the trigger made the whole affair pretty simple. If the reliability of the 2011s is where it needs to be, I would encourage switched on folks to use them for carry or duty. The caveat would of course be that by "switched on" on mean folks who will practice safe holstering, and take the time to clean and inspect it on a regular basis. I don't think the platform will stand up to neglect as well as a Glock.

In today's world, with 92s, Glocks, and 1911s there are a lot of solid choices for selecting a defensive firearm.

-Cory

[Trukinjp13]

I am very impressed with everything I have heard on the Staccato line. Price is up there, but for what you get it seems worth it. The P looks like a badass setup and you can have it optics ready. The C is nice too for a single stack. I hope they build a C with the double stack frame. Basically end up with a lesser expensive EDC-9. I hope these keep gaining traction and turn out to be a legitimate choice for carry and duty.

I like that there are options out there in the 1911/2011 world that are being built for ccw and duty purposes. Not just some 600$ project gun. I love the 1911 and the more properly built pistols that are out there will hopefully force other companies to build them with a purpose and not have a 3500$ price tag on every pistol. Just this dudes opinion.


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[Arbninftry]

I have had this on order, for a couple of weeks. I have ONLY had a chance to shoot 150 rds through it. I got ate up at the farm with ticks, so I had to cut it short.
My initial impressions- Pros
I really like it. The recoil is not much at all, and it tracks very fast. Follow up shots are quick. The sights are well thought out, I like a blacked out rear and something that stands out up front. The red fiber stands out. The pistol ate a mix of 124 +p HST, Fiochhi 115 and 124, S&B 115 and some Winchester Nato. Ate all of it, no hiccups. Works well with Wilson Compact mags, in fact that will be what is bought for it here on out. The Wilson mags allow a full 8 rds plus one in the chamber.

Cons
I loaded a lot of 8 rd magazines. You can shoot a mag quick. So you need a lot of them to spend at a range for an extended time. I guess that is why I have so many 47D mags for my fullsize 1911s.
I like the grip, but I would like it to be a little more aggressive. the recessed area under the trigger is nice, but I would like it to be stippled. Also, the main spring housing on the bottom rounded edge needs something. It feels a little slick.
The factory mags do not allow 8+1, a full mag would not seat for me with one in the chamber already. So that is why I will be only picking up the Wilson Mags from here on out.

Overall- i really like it. It could be a nice carry gun if someone is ok with the limited capacity. It is slim and will conceal well.

It comes with a IWB holster, it requires adjusting before you use it. So I had an extra pad from JM Custom Kydex, and loops that I had removed from another JM holster. Those went on the holster to make it a little better for use. I am looking for a holster for it, and they are hard to find, right now.
But I like it, it could be something others might be interested in.
like I said I only put 150 through it, so I will be putting alot more through it and will get back to let everyone know if there is any problem.
42579

42580

42581

[banzaijohn]

The Staccato C, I love that little pistol. I have about 5k through mine with no issues. The magazine release shelf was long (they may have rectified it in current production as others have posted about the same issue) and would only seat the STI magazines. I had to remove the mag release and take some metal off of the shelf to get it to work with the Wilson's and CMC magazine supply I had. Took all of ten minutes; go slow and test fit a few file strokes at a time if yours needs fitting (STI will do it for you too, but I didn't want to send it back, too busy having fun with mine and too cheap to buy a bunch of new $50 STI mags-- they're more expensive than the 2011 mags!)

[Arbninftry]

The Staccato C, I love that little pistol. I have about 5k through mine with no issues. The magazine release shelf was long (they may have rectified it in current production as others have posted about the same issue) and would only seat the STI magazines. I had to remove the mag release and take some metal off of the shelf to get it to work with the Wilson's and CMC magazine supply I had. Took all of ten minutes; go slow and test fit a few file strokes at a time if yours needs fitting (STI will do it for you too, but I didn't want to send it back, too busy having fun with mine and too cheap to buy a bunch of new $50 STI mags-- they're more expensive than the 2011 mags!)

The Wilson's worked right out of the box for me, so they might have fixed the issue. They are also a little cheaper than the STI mags. I definitely need more magazines, 8 rds goes fast.

The mag release issue I had saw on all the reviews, but I think it just needs a little use and it becomes a little better. It could be a simple swap as well. I think a regular wilson mag release might fit in it also.

[backtrail540]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u0qeHPnv_E
And the follow up. I enjoyed both video's quite a bit.


https://youtu.be/G0_P4XOZStc

[Duke]

If anyone has long term experience with this - the DVC Omni - id like to hear it.

I want to abuse one of these like the spendy Vegas hooker that it probably is.

42773

[Matt Little]

Hey everyone, I’m not the most active member of PF but I’ve been on here for a little while. Used to have a training log on the forum. I am sponsored by STI as part of their Tactical Team 2011, and just got clued in to this thread by Les Pepperoni. I’m happy to help with any questions anyone has about the company or the products. If I don’t know the answer, I’ll reach out to those that do and report back.

[MGW]

Hey everyone, I’m not the most active member of PF but I’ve been on here for a little while. Used to have a training log on the forum. I am sponsored by STI as part of their Tactical Team 2011, and just got clued in to this thread by Les Pepperoni. I’m happy to help with any questions anyone has about the company or the products. If I don’t know the answer, I’ll reach out to those that do and report back.


Welcome back to the forum Matt.

I’m really interested in the Staccato P personally. Was finally able to get my hands on one at a local STI dealer but no demo time. I hope I get a chance to try one out soon. Really interested in it as a concealed carry gun.

The match I’m going to tomorrow had one donated by STI so maybe I’ll get lucky and win it. It’s a memorial match for a fallen LEO. Really awesome gesture by STI to donate the pistol.

[Matt Little]

Welcome back to the forum Matt.

I’m really interested in the Staccato P personally. Was finally able to get my hands on one at a local STI dealer but no demo time. I hope I get a chance to try one out soon. Really interested in it as a concealed carry gun.

The match I’m going to tomorrow had one donated by STI so maybe I’ll get lucky and win it. It’s a memorial match for a fallen LEO. Really awesome gesture by STI to donate the pistol.

I’ve been EDCing mine since I got them. Any particular questions about them let me know.

[45dotACP]

I’ve been EDCing mine since I got them. Any particular questions about them let me know.What sort of MRDS do you run on yours?

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Matt Little]

What sort of MRDS do you run on yours?

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

I’ve been running the Delta Point Pro. Prior to this I ran RMR. The slide on the STI Duo system adapts DPP with no adapter plate, so it sits nice and low.

[Buck8154]

Was directed to this thread by Matt Little...I dont spend a while lit of time on forums as im a very busy guy, but if anyone has any questions about STI’s let me know. Obviously I am the Buck mentioned numerous times in this thread, and yes I work for STI as the Director of leo/mil sales.

[FredWyn]

I've own and used several STI handguns. They are beautiful pieces of machinery. Super accurate. Great triggers. Super-expensive. I enjoyed them, and sold them, for more than I paid, thankfully, and realized that I just do not need or require them for any of my shooting sports or regular use. For me, they do nothing that a Glock doesn't do and cost a heck of a lot more to buy, maintain and use, and are not as reliable in the long run anyway.

[Arbninftry]

I’ve been EDCing mine since I got them. Any particular questions about them let me know.

Is there a Staccato P type model coming without the Mag funnel. Or can the end user swap the grip like the DVC models and put a grip on it to make it comparable to the carry model DVC.

[JodyH]

Dawson Precision shows to have a Staccato P and a DVC-C still in stock as of AM on 9/21.
I've been resisting for several days now (annual home insurance bill came in yesterday and that helped me resist).

[LittleLebowski]

Hey everyone, I’m not the most active member of PF but I’ve been on here for a little while. Used to have a training log on the forum. I am sponsored by STI as part of their Tactical Team 2011, and just got clued in to this thread by Les Pepperoni. I’m happy to help with any questions anyone has about the company or the products. If I don’t know the answer, I’ll reach out to those that do and report back.

STI needs to buy advertising here, let them know ;)

Lemme know if you need anything at all here, thanks for being part of the community.

[shane45]

Dawson Precision shows to have a Staccato P and a DVC-C still in stock as of AM on 9/21.
I've been resisting for several days now (annual home insurance bill came in yesterday and that helped me resist).
Resistance is futile!

[Matt Little]

Is there a Staccato P type model coming without the Mag funnel. Or can the end user swap the grip like the DVC models and put a grip on it to make it comparable to the carry model DVC.

There are a variety of grip modules available and you can swap them out easily. The magwell comes off and you can run it without it.

[Matt Little]

STI needs to buy advertising here, let them know ;)

Lemme know if you need anything at all here, thanks for being part of the community.

I’ll work on the advertising bit for sure. I agree with you there 100%.

Thanks, this is my favorite shooting forum. I’m just been too busy to be as active here as I would have liked.

[Kyle Reese]

The people who love STI handguns are the competitive shooters. If you are not a gun-game player, STI is a waste of money.

USMS SOG disagrees with you.

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/07/24/exclusive-u-s-marshals-special-operations-group-adopts-sti-2011-pistols


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[Matt Little]

Ok, I’m going to weigh in here. I’m going to attempt to do so politely and humbly, but I’m going to be honest as well. I have been to combat multiple times as a special operations soldier. I recently retired from a full time SWAT team in what is arguably the most violent city in North America. I have been in gunfights in both roles. Given my choice, sponsorship or not, I would never chose any polymer gun over an STI produced since Nate shifted the company towards the LE/MIL market. This is not an academic or theoretical opinion, as I have the experience to back it up. No offense intended towards anyone.

[LittleLebowski]

FredWyn is no longer able to post here, no need to respond to him.

[LittleLebowski]

Ok, I’m going to weigh in here. I’m going to attempt to do so politely and humbly, but I’m going to be honest as well. I have been to combat multiple times as a special operations soldier. I recently retired from a full time SWAT team in what is arguably the most violent city in North America. I have been in gunfights in both roles. Given my choice, sponsorship or not, I would never chose any polymer gun over an STI produced since Nate shifted the company towards the LE/MIL market. This is not an academic or theoretical opinion, as I have the experience to back it up. No offense intended towards anyone.

Good data, sorry for the earlier discourtesy, please carry on.

[wvincent]

Ok, I’m going to weigh in here. I’m going to attempt to do so politely and humbly, but I’m going to be honest as well. I have been to combat multiple times as a special operations soldier. I recently retired from a full time SWAT team in what is arguably the most violent city in North America. I have been in gunfights in both roles. Given my choice, sponsorship or not, I would never chose any polymer gun over an STI produced since Nate shifted the company towards the LE/MIL market. This is not an academic or theoretical opinion, as I have the experience to back it up. No offense intended towards anyone.

Matt, thanks for jumping in here and participating, even through all the FNG noise. I'm a Glock guy who has been looking at STI for quite a while, I just haven't been ready to make the final jump. But, you participating here is giving me a lot of "nudges" in the the right direction.

ETA: You see, the problems with me and STI pistols are compound, things that I just don't know, and worse yet, things that I don't know that I don't know. This OP and your participation is really helping me out.

[Redhat]

Ok, I’m going to weigh in here.... Given my choice, sponsorship or not, I would never chose any polymer gun over an STI produced since Nate shifted the company towards the LE/MIL market. This is not an academic or theoretical opinion, as I have the experience to back it up. No offense intended towards anyone.


Since you threw this in...I would be very interested in why you feel this way?

Thanks

[Matt Little]

Good data, sorry for the earlier discourtesy, please carry on.

Hopefully I wasn’t too curt with my earlier post. I certainly am not putting down Glock, or any other quality striker fired pistol. Nor putting anyone down if that is their choice for duty or EDC. But I personally feel that I shoot at my best with less physical and mental effort with my 2011s. And, the staccato-p pistols I personally have are as reliable for me as anything else I have ever run. I have over 20k rounds through one and approaching 10k on the other so far.

And while I do compete, I wanted people to understand that competition is not my reference point for the discussion at hand. I also understand people’s concerns based on the competition pistols (and magazines) fielded before the current management at the company.

[Matt Little]

Since you threw this in...I would be very interested in why you feel this way?

Thanks

The 1911/2011 operating mechanism is inherently more accurate, and the felt recoil IMHO is much less. The trigger doesn’t have a hinge point so it truly presses straight to the rear, with less takeup. I can run a polymer pistol as fast, but it takes more physical and mental effort to do so. Because it takes less cognitive “bandwidth” to run the gun, my incidence rate of error is less, especially under stress.

Once again, not knocking any other pistol. Or anyone else’s choice of carry.

Edit: forgot to address reliability. I have torture tested my two, with no issues despite hard use apart from ammo related, tuning one extractor north of 10k rounds, and an extremely dusty range gumming up one magazine. That same day on the range also affected a Wilson Combat Beretta mag, and an M&P mag.

[Redhat]

The 1911/2011 operating mechanism is inherently more accurate, and the felt recoil IMHO is much less. The trigger doesn’t have a hinge point so it truly presses straight to the rear, with less takeup. I can run a polymer pistol as fast, but it takes more physical and mental effort to do so. Because it takes less cognitive “bandwidth” to run the gun, my incidence rate of error is less, especially under stress.

Once again, not knocking any other pistol. Or anyone else’s choice of carry.

I get it, just like to hear other's reasoning. Have you found they have to be "babied" or that maintenance / up-keep is a thing like some others claim?

[Matt Little]

I get it, just like to hear other's reasoning. Have you found they have to be "babied" or that maintenance / up-keep is a thing like some others claim?

I haven’t babied mine at all. Quite the opposite. I edited my above post to include reliability.

[Redhat]

I haven’t babied mine at all. Quite the opposite. I edited my above post to include reliability.

Thanks. I like to see good folks succeed so I hope the new direction works out well.

[Matt Little]

Thanks. I like to see good folks succeed so I hope the new direction works out well.

I should clarify too. I really do want to give you guys the most honest complete info that I can. I haven’t cleaned mine any more than I would a Glock. But they are more precisely manufactured and more complex. I plan on going through mine completely and checking springs etc twice a year or so. On a Glock I habitually did that once a year. IMO that’s a small price to pay for the improved performance of the pistol, but it is reality. Also, repairing a Glock is “ plug and play” where a 2011 takes more skill to work on. Once again, I believe that to be a small price to pay, but it’s the reality of a machine built to tighter tolerances.

[wvincent]

When selecting a holster for say a Staccato-C, any 1911 holster?

[Trukinjp13]

Any chance on a double stack Staccato-C???

Thanks for responding and giving us your opinions. I am really digging this new line of pistols!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Matt Little]

When selecting a holster for say a Staccato-C, any 1911 holster?

Holsters can be a bit tricky. It has to fit the rail.

[Balisong]

I'm finding the idea of a defense-reliable 2011 VERY intriguing and will be following this thread closely. I also was very intrigued by the EDC x9 but the samples of those I've handled didn't point naturally for me (haven't shot one though). Looking forward to getting one of these STI in my hands and see what I think. Thanks for the contributions to this thread by the folks heavily involved with this gun.

[Bucky]

I'm finding the idea of a defense-reliable 2011 VERY intriguing and will be following this thread closely. I also was very intrigued by the EDC x9 but the samples of those I've handled didn't point naturally for me (haven't shot one though). Looking forward to getting one of these STI in my hands and see what I think. Thanks for the contributions to this thread by the folks heavily involved with this gun.

Regarding the EDC X9, try a large back strap if possible. It changes the way it points.

[Arbninftry]

There are a variety of grip modules available and you can swap them out easily. The magwell comes off and you can run it without it.

Thank You

[Arbninftry]

I gave my Staccato C a stippling on the front strap today. I just felt it was a little slick on the front strap. It really added grip to the grip.:cool:

It has shot great. i have about 500 rounds through this week. It is really impressive, for a small carry pistol.


4283542834

[wvincent]

I gave my Staccato C a stippling on the front strap today. I just felt it was a little slick on the front strap. It really added grip to the grip.:cool:

It has shot great. i have about 500 rounds through this week. It is really impressive, for a small carry pistol.


4283542834

Nice! How would you say the STI trigger stacks up against the Glock Gen 5? How about the rest of the ergo's, like grip angle and trigger reach?

[Arbninftry]

Nice! How would you say the STI trigger stacks up against the Glock Gen 5? How about the rest of the ergo's, like grip angle and trigger reach?

Not comparable at all. A 1911 trigger from a good manufacturing background is hands down 100% better. They are apples and oranges. A 1911 slides smoothly and is the same every time, a glock still pivots on an axis point.

Now taking my G17 with a after market trigger, that I shot USPSA with or my G19 gen 5, it is better and faster

[Matt Little]

Any chance on a double stack Staccato-C???

Thanks for responding and giving us your opinions. I am really digging this new line of pistols!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Look at the DVC-P. That’s the closest equivalent right now. There are some new things in development also.

[Trukinjp13]

Look at the DVC-P. That’s the closest equivalent right now. There are some new things in development also.

I am really hoping STI drops a edc-x9 equivalent. For a compact carry double stack I would like it to be as simple and without frills as possible. Thank you for the response.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Buck8154]

Trying to answer as many questions as I can in one reply, so bear with me haha. I cannot confirm any new models coming out next year yet as we are prototyping several different things right now. The only double stack g19 sized aluminum framed carry gun we currently have is the dvc-c. Yes you can put a carry length grip module on a staccato-p and have a more pricepoint friendly carry gun, albeit one that is .35” longer than our current carry guns.

All our frames are either steel, or aluminum. Aluminum is only used on our carry models. All of our barrels are 416R stainless steel, ramped and supported.

We use bull barrels for multiple reasons...one is it adds a little bit of weight in the non-reciprocating mass of the muzzle end of the gun, which aids in recoil management, 2. Bushings have always been a point of failure, and with full length guide rods requires a bushing tool for take down, 3. They are extremely accurate, 4. When a gun catastrophically fails bull barrels seem to contain everything better as opposed to fragging the slide into the operators hands.

Yes the staccato-p has passed numerous law enforcement evals, to include the us marshals sog. The typical sog operator shoots 100,000 rds of +p duty ammo a year in training, our guns were tested according to those standards, as were some other manufacturers guns, to include polymer striker fired guns. They have had a portion of their guns all year, and none have come back on warranty, or needed parts replaced. They actually discussed changing their qual course as too many guys now shoot perfect, or damn near perfect with these guns. As far as non sog agencies, as of yesterday I have sold guns to over 90 departments in 27 states. The latest large agency teat that we have just finished was LA County Sheriffs, who have been testing our guns for the last 14 months. We passed all testing criteria, and went on their approved list two weeks ago.

[JodyH]

Update the Guardian.

Staccato QC/parts
120mm magazine frame
Single side safety
Fixed black rear, tritium front sight
Do away with the horse soldier grip safety ala SVI/Infinity fixed beavertail.

Sell it for $1999.
:cool:

[Buck8154]

While the grip safety removal is an interesting topic, that has been discussed, you are only the second person to ask us to do it. Not saying we wouldnt look at it, but there has been no demand for it yet.

As far as sights, I doubt we ever go back to tritium as the overwhelming majority of our customer base no longer wishes to have it. To quote Dave Dawson as he said it in a way that hit the point home, “the only thing tritium sights are good for is seeing where your gun is on the nightstand, because if its dark enough to see them glow, its too dark to prove in court that there was a threat to your life”. After seeing some large leo agencies conducting low light testing with black, tritium, and fiber front sights, it was an almost unanimous decision to go fiber front. There is also a massive move towards pistol optics happening within the leo world now, which also negates the need for tritium. Tritium will always have a place in the aftermarket, and sights are like shoes, every individual has their own preference.

Same with single sided thumb safety. We had quite a few left over guardians from last year, all them were purchased by law enforcement officers, and requested the single sided safeties be replaced by ambi safeties. We make our guns set up for the 95% of our consumer base, and I think single safeties will also be aftermarket option for those who want them.

[Matt Little]

I am really hoping STI drops a edc-x9 equivalent. For a compact carry double stack I would like it to be as simple and without frills as possible. Thank you for the response.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry guys, that was a typo on my part. The DVC-C, not DVC-P.

[Caballoflaco]

I’m stoked to see Matt and Buck on here answering questions, thanks guys.

[Buck8154]

No problem, thanks for having us!

[Redhat]

No problem, thanks for having us!

Probably a low-level question, but why are the magazines referred to in millimeters?

[JodyH]

While the grip safety removal is an interesting topic, that has been discussed, you are only the second person to ask us to do it. Not saying we wouldnt look at it, but there has been no demand for it yet.

As far as sights, I doubt we ever go back to tritium as the overwhelming majority of our customer base no longer wishes to have it. To quote Dave Dawson as he said it in a way that hit the point home, “the only thing tritium sights are good for is seeing where your gun is on the nightstand, because if its dark enough to see them glow, its too dark to prove in court that there was a threat to your life”. After seeing some large leo agencies conducting low light testing with black, tritium, and fiber front sights, it was an almost unanimous decision to go fiber front. There is also a massive move towards pistol optics happening within the leo world now, which also negates the need for tritium. Tritium will always have a place in the aftermarket, and sights are like shoes, every individual has their own preference.

Same with single sided thumb safety. We had quite a few left over guardians from last year, all them were purchased by law enforcement officers, and requested the single sided safeties be replaced by ambi safeties. We make our guns set up for the 95% of our consumer base, and I think single safeties will also be aftermarket option for those who want them.
I can 100% see your focus on LE in your post.
Everything I put in my post is geared around CCW.
I wish you nothing but the best in breaking into the LE market with as much success as you have had in the competition arena but I don't personally see anything at all that interests me as a CCW.
(and everything like tritium, safeties and optics have already been or are currently being discussed on the forum ad nauseam so no need in rehashing it here)

[JodyH]

Probably a low-level question, but why are the magazines referred to in millimeters?
It's a holdover from the USPSA/IPSC competition rules.

[GJM]

Local shop can’t keep STI pistols in stock. All the models are selling as soon as they come in.

[Buck8154]

Probably a low-level question, but why are the magazines referred to in millimeters?

Just a carryover from competition, doubt it will continue going forward.

[Buck8154]

Local shop can’t keep STI pistols in stock. All the models are selling as soon as they come in.

We have about a 3 month lead time due to sales volume this year...for perspective as of march 1 we had already sold more guns than we did in 2018, and Ive sold almost as many guns to leo this year as we did as a company last year.

[Trukinjp13]

Build the Staccato-C and we will come [emoji6]

I agree with a lot of what JodyH said. Keep up the good work and once you can, try and focus on us ccw guys. We will reward you handsomely if you build us some good options.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[YVK]

Totally agree with Jody.

From a prospective of a potential Limited class gamer, would love to see a sightblock like option on your limited gun. Hopefully, this is something you might find interesting to develop.

[Buck8154]

Build the Staccato-C and we will come [emoji6]

I agree with a lot of what JodyH said. Keep up the good work and once you can, try and focus on us ccw guys. We will reward you handsomely if you build us some good options.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We will have a heavy focus on the ccw market going forward. 2020 is bringing some new things for sure. Of course my posts will lean more towards the leo/mil focus as that is my position and responsibility in the company. I will add input on other subjects as well, as I have until very recently managed every dealer west of the Mississippi as well, and have and have heard a metric ton of feedback from non-law enforcement officers as well. The only thing that I will not cover on here is the status of military requests and T&E due to the nature of who im working with in that regard.

[Buck8154]

Totally agree with Jody.

From a prospective of a potential Limited class gamer, would love to see a sightblock like option on your limited gun. Hopefully, this is something you might find interesting to develop.

You mean an island front sight? Because we had that last year and they didnt sell, and thus were not offered this year.

[banzaijohn]

Buck, any idea when this will be available? That's the one thing I would change, incorporate it across the Staccato line. Cops are always frustrated taking it apart and they always say, "WHAT TOOL?" when I show them how to strip it and reassemble it. It's easily done without the tool, but they always go, my Glock is so much easier.

[JodyH]

A really good niche I could see STI in is the "professional" CCW market, much like how you have worked your way into LE.
You approached the high volume, highly skilled shooters first and then let your success with them trickle down into the patrol sector.

Nobody to date has worked with highly skilled, motivated civilian shooters who carry to develop a gun designed for their needs.
And yes, their needs are different from LE, competition and the lowest common denominator permit holder.

A Staccato P or C meets my CCW needs about as well as a Taurus Curve does... that is, not at all (albeit for completely different reasons).

I can see it now.
The P-F.com pistol designed by us, for us...
:p


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw9gaEiQAxY

[Buck8154]

Buck, any idea when this will be available? That's the one thing I would change, incorporate it across the Staccato line. Cops are always frustrated taking it apart and they always say, "WHAT TOOL?" when I show them how to strip it and reassemble it. It's easily done without the tool, but they always go, my Glock is so much easier.

Tool less guide rods will be in more models for next year. The whole reason for the current system in the 4.15 guns was that it is tool less as well.

[usmc_k9_vet]

I’m stoked to see Matt and Buck on here answering questions, thanks guys.

Me too. This thread is gold. I am a happy STI Staccato P DUO 9mm owner after having been very skeptical of a lot of STI's previous products. So far, I love my Staccato P. Really looking forward to what else they come out with in the near future and this thread really has me wanting a DVC-C.

The only thing I wish I was able to find more of were quality holsters for a guy that carries at the 3-3:30 position. I know there are a few out there, I just want to see more.

[Buck8154]

A really good niche I could see STI in is the "professional" CCW market, much like how you have worked your way into LE.
You approached the high volume, highly skilled shooters first and then let your success with them trickle down into the patrol sector.

Nobody to date has worked with highly skilled, motivated civilian shooters who carry to develop a gun designed for their needs.
And yes, their needs are different from LE, competition and the lowest common denominator permit holder.

A Staccato P or C meets my CCW needs about as well as a Taurus Curve does... that is, not at all (albeit for completely different reasons).

I can see it now.
The P-F.com pistol designed by us, for us...
:p


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw9gaEiQAxY

We take feedback from all our customers, especially the ccw crowd as it is hands down the largest market in the US. We have received a lot of requests for a double stack version of the staccato-c, but the biggest request we ha e for our carry guns isnt a sight change or grip safety change, but have them be optics ready, and smooth out the edges more. When it comes to sights and controls we will have to as a production company do what is best for the masses, knowing that certain items will always be a personal preference, and easily switched in the aftermarket by the end user. Getting to personal with a production gun always alienates a potential user, so we focus are engineering our guns, to be reliable and accurate first.

[Buck8154]

Me too. This thread is gold. I am a happy STI Staccato P DUO 9mm owner after having been very skeptical of a lot of STI's previous products. So far, I love my Staccato P. Really looking forward to what else they come out with in the near future and this thread really has me wanting a DVC-C.

The only thing I with I was able to find more of were quality holsters for a guy that carries at the 3-3:30 position. I know there are a few out there, I just want to see more.

Look in to blackpoint tactical, long shadow holsters, little gat holsters, tier1 concealed, battleborn holsters, txc, and philster, as they all have high quality options.

[Duke]

You mean an island front sight? Because we had that last year and they didnt sell, and thus were not offered this year.

Is this the sight seen in the Omni with the comp.

Asking for a friend with $4k burning in his pocket and an unhealthy level of attraction to an inanimate object

[usmc_k9_vet]

Look in to blackpoint tactical, long shadow holsters, little gat holsters, tier1 concealed, battleborn holsters, txc, and philster, as they all have high quality options.

Thank you. Will do. I've actually got one from Blackpoint Tactical, but I think I made a bit of a mistake as it carries the gun with an X300U attached and that package is just a little too big for me. I may get another one to accommodate just the gun without the light attached. I'm also looking into Pure Kustom Holsters as I really like quality leather for IWB carry. If anyone else is interested, check out the following:

https://www.stiholsters.com/

Thanks for your response and the recommendations, Buck8154.

[Buck8154]

Is this the sight seen in the Omni with the comp.

Asking for a friend with $4k burning in his pocket and an unhealthy level of attraction to an inanimate object

Yes, it is still on the dvc-p. Last year it was also offered on the dvc limited.

[Buck8154]

Thank you. Will do. I've actually got one from Blackpoint Tactical, but I think I made a bit of a mistake as it carries the gun with an X300U attached and that package is just a little too big for me. I may get another one to accommodate just the gun without the light attached. I'm also looking into Pure Kustom Holsters as I really like quality leather for IWB carry. If anyone else is interested, check out the following:

https://www.stiholsters.com/

Thanks for your response and the recommendations, Buck8154.

No problem! For the record I am not affiliated with any of the holster companies listed, and I have tried most, but not all of them. My daily carry is primarily blackpoint now, and occasionally a txc. For reference im 5’10” 175 lbs, and carry a staccato-p duo with a deltapoint pro, and occasionally an old guardian...but am kind of making the optics leap in my edc as after a few days on the range as a student, I began shooting noticeably better with an optic.

[Caballoflaco]

Thank you. Will do. I've actually got one from Blackpoint Tactical, but I think I made a bit of a mistake as it carries the gun with an X300U attached and that package is just a little too big for me. I may get another one to accommodate just the gun without the light attached. I'm also looking into Pure Kustom Holsters as I really like quality leather for IWB carry. If anyone else is interested, check out the following:

https://www.stiholsters.com/

Thanks for your response and the recommendations, Buck8154.

Those Pure Kustom holsters are similar to the old AKJ concealco holster that I loved for my standard 1911. Not my pic, but it was a great balance of minimums bulk but good stability and great concealment for a strong side iwb holster.

42852

[wvincent]

Buck8154, a couple of questions if I may?
Do I have to treat the Staccato C like a regular 1911 in regards to extractor testing and tensioning? I would rather it ran right out the box, vs me bent over the shop bench muttering " my precious" in my best Gollum voice trying to get the extractor just right. I just want to shoot, clean, wash, rinse and repeat, just like my Glock 45.

Is there one round that the Staccato C favors over others? I'm pretty deep in 147gr HST's, and the AE counterpart at the moment.

Are there any blue guns available yet? Google returned zero, but with you on the inside of the industry, you probably have better resources. I'm more than willing to invest in one for holsters and FOF training.

What is the maintenance interval for fire control parts replacement?

My 1911 base of experience is based on having been issued one in the MIL, and owning 3-4 of them on my own time. I was on the Squadron Pistol Team my entire posting, just missed The Presidents 100, so I am maybe a titch better than the average MIL end user.

I found a Staccato C local to me today, honestly I didn't even know he was a stocking dealer as he doesn't show on your web site. The ergo's were "dreamy", so much nicer than my G45, and "dat trigger", damn!

I not saying the Staccato C is going to replace my G45 for EDC, but I'm not saying it isn't either. Honestly, I'm fine with 8rd mag's. I would be carrying a G43X or a G48 if I could find one I shot as well as the G45.

My overall take on the Staccato C was "it's slimming". Slimmer grip, slimmer mags, and it will certainly slim the hell out of my discretionary fund for a bit.

I just want to give it a fair shake and see how it turns out.

Thanks for the help!

[MGW]

A really good niche I could see STI in is the "professional" CCW market, much like how you have worked your way into LE.
You approached the high volume, highly skilled shooters first and then let your success with them trickle down into the patrol sector.

Nobody to date has worked with highly skilled, motivated civilian shooters who carry to develop a gun designed for their needs.
And yes, their needs are different from LE, competition and the lowest common denominator permit holder.

A Staccato P or C meets my CCW needs about as well as a Taurus Curve does... that is, not at all (albeit for completely different reasons).

I can see it now.
The P-F.com pistol designed by us, for us...
:p


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw9gaEiQAxY

JodyH I’m curious to hear what you would like to see in an STI CCW Pistol. I looked at a Staccato P the other day and it seemed very similar in size to a 19x. The magwell would need to go. It could use some additional dehorning. And it definitely needs support from holster manufacturers like those that are favored on this board.

What would be your ideal STI carry gun?

[shane45]

My answer to the same question would be basically the Costa VIP without logo's. I got saddled with the logos on my costa carry comp because I picked logos over holes in the slide of the omni :rolleyes:

[Buck8154]

JodyH I’m curious to hear what you would like to see in an STI CCW Pistol. I looked at a Staccato P the other day and it seemed very similar in size to a 19x. The magwell would need to go. It could use some additional dehorning. And it definitely needs support from holster manufacturers like those that are favored on this board.

What would be your ideal STI carry gun?

Its much closer in overall size to a g17 than a g19.

[Buck8154]

Buck8154, a couple of questions if I may?
Do I have to treat the Staccato C like a regular 1911 in regards to extractor testing and tensioning? I would rather it ran right out the box, vs me bent over the shop bench muttering " my precious" in my best Gollum voice trying to get the extractor just right. I just want to shoot, clean, wash, rinse and repeat, just like my Glock 45.

Is there one round that the Staccato C favors over others? I'm pretty deep in 147gr HST's, and the AE counterpart at the moment.

Are there any blue guns available yet? Google returned zero, but with you on the inside of the industry, you probably have better resources. I'm more than willing to invest in one for holsters and FOF training.

What is the maintenance interval for fire control parts replacement?

My 1911 base of experience is based on having been issued one in the MIL, and owning 3-4 of them on my own time. I was on the Squadron Pistol Team my entire posting, just missed The Presidents 100, so I am maybe a titch better than the average MIL end user.

I found a Staccato C local to me today, honestly I didn't even know he was a stocking dealer as he doesn't show on your web site. The ergo's were "dreamy", so much nicer than my G45, and "dat trigger", damn!

I not saying the Staccato C is going to replace my G45 for EDC, but I'm not saying it isn't either. Honestly, I'm fine with 8rd mag's. I would be carrying a G43X or a G48 if I could find one I shot as well as the G45.

My overall take on the Staccato C was "it's slimming". Slimmer grip, slimmer mags, and it will certainly slim the hell out of my discretionary fund for a bit.

I just want to give it a fair shake and see how it turns out.

Thanks for the help!

Ive only had to adjust an extractor on one of demo guns, and it was well north of 30k. I have a personal gun that I just broke 20k on with about 14k of that being a mix of 147gr ranger sxt and hornady 135 +p...not adjustment or parts replacements yet.

I have not seen any duty round that does not function in any of the staccato guns.

[pm07]

I’ve been running the Delta Point Pro. Prior to this I ran RMR. The slide on the STI Duo system adapts DPP with no adapter plate, so it sits nice and low.

Matt,
Any chance you can do a comparison pics of the DPP and RMR on the DUO so folks can see the height difference?

[Matt Little]

Matt,
Any chance you can do a comparison pics of the DPP and RMR on the DUO so folks can see the height difference?

I’ve only got the DPP on mine now. Another one of our tactical team guys did one I think. I’ll look for it when I get a chance. I’m teaching next couple of days, so it might be a day or so.

[Wondering Beard]

Buck8154

How sensitive is the grip safety?

With my hands, I always need it quite sensitized.

[808sheriff]

does anyone seem to have a lead on in stock 140mm magazines? they're out of stock on sti's website and my local LE dealer has had them on order with no expected delivery date.

[Matt Little]

Buck8154

How sensitive is the grip safety?

With my hands, I always need it quite sensitized.

I have orangutan hands, so I’m not the best guy to ask.

My wife has small hands, and hasn’t had any issues with the grip safety. She’s a newer shooter, so I would expect her to have an error rate if there was an issue there. Here is a video showing her running a bill drill with the Staccato-P. That’s a very aggressive run for her. We spent a significant amount of time Friday pushing her draw speed. She fumbled the thumb safety a few times, since she’s transitioning over from a VP-9, but no grip safety errors.


https://youtu.be/AWZEthb6crI

[JodyH]

What would be your ideal STI carry gun?
"Melted" Staccato P top end on a DVC-C (no rail) chassis.
Single sided thumb safety, SVI/Infinity fixed grip safety, 10-8/HD style orange poly high vis front tritium sight.
Price it around $2k.

[Wondering Beard]

I have orangutan hands, so I’m not the best guy to ask.

My wife has small hands, and hasn’t had any issues with the grip safety. She’s a newer shooter, so I would expect her to have an error rate if there was an issue there. Here is a video showing her running a bill drill with the Staccato-P. That’s a very aggressive run for her. We spent a significant amount of time Friday pushing her draw speed. She fumbled the thumb safety a few times, since she’s transitioning over from a VP-9, but no grip safety errors.


https://youtu.be/AWZEthb6crI

I wear size L gloves, so I'm not tiny either and I grip very high so, every so often (but not that often), the "bump" of the grip safety doesn't get fully depressed on the draw or a reload. Maybe that doesn't happen with the fuller grip of the 2011 (I have no 2011 experience) but with a classic 1911, I've had to "sensitize" all my grip safeties to be absolutely sure it gets engaged every time. There's a video of LAV that was posted on this forum (I can't find it right now) explaining how that can happen.

So, is this something we can ask for at the time of purchase or something we could send the pistol back for?

[GJM]

I was discussing this with Rob Leatham once, and he said that he has to be able to demo all pistols regardless of grip safety adjustment. He gets his grip first and then the thumb safety after, which assures the grip safety is sufficiently depressed. He said you have plenty of time to get the thumb safety off and trying to grip and move the thumb safety at the same time is what causes issues.

[HCM]

I wear size L gloves, so I'm not tiny either and I grip very high so, every so often (but not that often), the "bump" of the grip safety doesn't get fully depressed on the draw or a reload. Maybe that doesn't happen with the fuller grip of the 2011 (I have no 2011 experience) but with a classic 1911, I've had to "sensitize" all my grip safeties to be absolutely sure it gets engaged every time. There's a video of LAV that was posted on this forum (I can't find it right now) explaining how that can happen.

So, is this something we can ask for at the time of purchase or something we could send the pistol back for?

More than one way to address that issue....

42887

On a more serious note, I have large hands and have issues with some grip safeties but have no such issues with 2011s. I’ve found the bigger grip on 2011s and Paras helps with this.

[Wondering Beard]

I'm certainly not going to argue with the likes of Rob Leatham :-), all I can describe is what happens to me. The web of my hand (with more or less flagged thumb) makes contact as high up on the frame as I can and then closes in fully on the grip, then, once the pistol is lifted out of the holster and pointing down range (rock and lock) is the thumb safety disengaged. It's at the first part (web of hand high on grip to full grip achieved) that sometimes the grip safety is not fully depressed and I get a non moving trigger. It has happened a few times when I reload and shift the grip to eject a mag and then regrip the gun.

Now, I haven't shot 1911s in quite a while and my grip has evolved a bit since, but for my own sense of security, sentisitizing the grip safety matters.

[Wondering Beard]

More than one way to address that issue....

42887

On a more serious note, I have large hands and have issues with some grip safeties but have no such issues with 2011s. I’ve found the bigger grip on 2011s and Paras helps with this.

I can be old fashioned but not quite that way :-)

I have wondered about the effect of that bigger grip and I guess I can only find out by trying.

[HCM]

I can be old fashioned but not quite that way :-)

I have wondered about the effect of that bigger grip and I guess I can only find out by trying.

I have “farmer hands” I.e. big hands but not super long fingers. So Les Baer 1911s with their slightly longer grip frame from front to back helps me. So do the old school pachmeyer wrap around grips.

[Buck8154]

Buck8154

How sensitive is the grip safety?

With my hands, I always need it quite sensitized.

It will disengage the safety about 1/3 of the way from fully closed.

[HCM]

Buck8154

Question: I have an STI Marauder which runs well. Can STI cut it for the DUO /HOST II optics system ?

[Wondering Beard]

It will disengage the safety about 1/3 of the way from fully closed.

That should take care of me quite well.

[MGW]

"Melted" Staccato P top end on a DVC-C (no rail) chassis.
Single sided thumb safety, SVI/Infinity fixed grip safety, 10-8/HD style orange poly high vis front tritium sight.
Price it around $2k.

Okay. I like the sounds of that. I like Dawson fibers personally but other than that STI can go ahead and build two of those.

[Buck8154]

Buck8154

Question: I have an STI Marauder which runs well. Can STI cut it for the DUO /HOST II optics system ?

Not currently, but possibly be offered next year. Is this a duty gun? If so we do not recommend adding an optic to a 5” 9mm gun. 9mm already has issues running the 5” slides reliably after lightening and under springing, adding the weight of an optic, or optic and plate doesnt end well. The main benefit of a 5” or 5.4” gun is sight radius, which doesnt exist with an optic mounted.

[HCM]

Not currently, but possibly be offered next year. Is this a duty gun? If so we do not recommend adding an optic to a 5” 9mm gun. 9mm already has issues running the 5” slides reliably after lightening and under springing, adding the weight of an optic, or optic and plate doesnt end well. The main benefit of a 5” or 5.4” gun is sight radius, which doesnt exist with an optic mounted.

Not a duty gun but we are in the process of going to dots on duty guns.

I understand the rational on 5” being no advantage was just thinking about it since I already have the gun and it is vetted.

[Buck8154]

Not a duty gun but we are in the process of going to dots on duty guns.

I understand the rational on 5” being no advantage was just thinking about it since I already have the gun and it is vetted.

Your best bet for now would be to contact Dawson precision and see if they are offering it currently. It has been discussed for us to offer it next year, but we are not set up to offer now due to the massive back log of orders we are working through this year.

[GJM]

I'm certainly not going to argue with the likes of Rob Leatham :-), all I can describe is what happens to me. The web of my hand (with more or less flagged thumb) makes contact as high up on the frame as I can and then closes in fully on the grip, then, once the pistol is lifted out of the holster and pointing down range (rock and lock) is the thumb safety disengaged. It's at the first part (web of hand high on grip to full grip achieved) that sometimes the grip safety is not fully depressed and I get a non moving trigger. It has happened a few times when I reload and shift the grip to eject a mag and then regrip the gun.

Now, I haven't shot 1911s in quite a while and my grip has evolved a bit since, but for my own sense of security, sentisitizing the grip safety matters.

I hear you. I always had my 1911 grip safeties sensitized, or even pinned on competition guns, but thought Robbie’s take interesting, and plan to experiment with it, if I shoot a 1911 again.

[Matt Little]

I wear size L gloves, so I'm not tiny either and I grip very high so, every so often (but not that often), the "bump" of the grip safety doesn't get fully depressed on the draw or a reload. Maybe that doesn't happen with the fuller grip of the 2011 (I have no 2011 experience) but with a classic 1911, I've had to "sensitize" all my grip safeties to be absolutely sure it gets engaged every time. There's a video of LAV that was posted on this forum (I can't find it right now) explaining how that can happen.

So, is this something we can ask for at the time of purchase or something we could send the pistol back for?

Sorry, misunderstood your original post, obviously. Looks like Buck gave you the info you needed though.

[Wondering Beard]

Sorry, misunderstood your original post, obviously. Looks like Buck gave you the info you needed though.

Nothing to be sorry about, I guess I just wasn't as clear as I thought I was.

[wvincent]

And TT Gunleather just informed me that he can do me leather for the Stattaco C.
I am pretty much all out of excuses.

[Duke]

Not currently, but possibly be offered next year. Is this a duty gun? If so we do not recommend adding an optic to a 5” 9mm gun. 9mm already has issues running the 5” slides reliably after lightening and under springing, adding the weight of an optic, or optic and plate doesnt end well. The main benefit of a 5” or 5.4” gun is sight radius, which doesnt exist with an optic mounted.

Is there a noticeable difference (read advantage ) to the comped RMR Omni/dvc-p vas the staccato P host ?

Or does the RMR on the dvc-p/Omni fall into the not for duty with an optic on a 9mm ?

[Buck8154]

Is there a noticeable difference (read advantage ) to the comped RMR Omni/dvc-p vas the staccato P host ?

Or does the RMR on the dvc-p/Omni fall into the not for duty with an optic on a 9mm ?

The DVC-P has a 4.15” slide, not a 5” slide. The problem is 9mm running a 5” slide that was designed around the .45 acp cartridge.

[Doc_Glock]

I held both these guns and shot five rounds through the Staccato P the other day. I was impressed.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190930/d32d5df1f549c58c28fd84e45670a160.jpg

Call me 2011 curious at this point. I never cared for single stack 1911 9mm pistols, but these feel a lot better in many ways.

[Sensei]

If I were not so heavily invested in the EDC X9 (meaning I have 1), I’d be on board with a Stacatto. However, magazine commonality alone will cause me to choose the EDC X9L in my never ending search for a reliable full-size 9mm 1911. Like Sisyphus I’m damned...

[WobblyPossum]

If I were not so heavily invested in the EDC X9 (meaning I have 1), I’d be on board with a Stacatto. However, magazine commonality alone will cause me to choose the EDC X9L in my never ending search for a reliable full-size 9mm 1911. Like Sisyphus I’m damned...

What about the Stacatto leads you to prefer it over your EDC X9? I ask as someone who has listed after an X9 since putting a few mags through Ken Hackathorn’s at a pistol class almost two years ago.

[shane45]

I was very interested in the edcx9 until I got hands on one. I did not care for how it felt at all! The STI feels much better to me. I didnt get to shoot the edc though fwiw.

[Duke]

I was very interested in the edcx9 until I got hands on one. I did not care for how it felt at all! The STI feels much better to me. I didnt get to shoot the edc though fwiw.

Concur fully about my edc x9


I loved it for 27 days - then I sent it live with my favorite kydex maker

[Sensei]

What about the Stacatto leads you to prefer it over your EDC X9? I ask as someone who has listed after an X9 since putting a few mags through Ken Hackathorn’s at a pistol class almost two years ago.

I don’t prefer the Stacatto, I prefer the EDC X9.

However, the Stacatto is significantly less money than an EDC X9 and may represent a better value assuming that STI solved the reliability riddle. That cost savings might have made me go with STI had the Stacatto been around 2 years ago before I got my EDC X9. Now that I’ve got about 20 EDC X9 magazines I’m really committed to the platform when looking for a big brother full-size.

[Doc_Glock]

I only have four EDC X9 magazines and I much preferred the grip on the Staccato. Less rounded, filled my hand better. It’s like a Glock versus P30. One rectangular, one oval. I prefer the rectangle.

I haven’t tried the large back strap for the EDC though.m

Triggers were equivalent.

I am a bit allergic to the stupid grip safety on the STI though.

[vcdgrips]

Slight thread drift – I shot the EDC X9 this weekend for the first time. 50 rounds. While very accurate, the recoil impulse was not particularly mild. Certainly no less than a G19. OTOH, the Wilson CQB in 9mm was to die for. markedly less felt recoil and quite flat shooting. I acknowledge I am a 100 rd sample of 1.

I hope to shoot a USMS SOG STI gun before the end of the year. I suspect that it is the intersection of quality/value in the 2-3k range.

[Trukinjp13]

The more I look at it the more the Staccato-C looks appealing. Being able to mount a light is a big win and change grip modules if need be. I imagine it’s a shooter.


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[shane45]

I've not really been following the c but I think I recall reading you cannot change out the grip on the c.

[JHC]

@ anybody - I think I might have found a dumb question. I have minimal experience with short gripped 1911 pattern pistols. The Detonics was so so long ago. Can conventional 1911 mags like Wilson ETMs be used in a C the way we use a G17 mag in a 19 or 26 or is over-insertion in this design a thing?

[wvincent]

@ anybody - I think I might have found a dumb question. I have minimal experience with short gripped 1911 pattern pistols. The Detonics was so so long ago. Can conventional 1911 mags like Wilson ETMs be used in a C the way we use a G17 mag in a 19 or 26 or is over-insertion in this design a thing?
JHC
Reply from Nobody (me), i questioned the same thing, and the answers I got back were, yes, over-insertion can occur if you try to shove in a full size stick. Can even occur with the Wilson 9 rounder's. However, you can seat a fully loaded Wilson 8 rounder, vs the STI 8 rounders, which can sometimes be problematic if you pull it out to top it off.
All the above was gleaned form 1911 addicts forum, which is very informative for STI gun info.

Not a deal breaker for me as I plan on running a topped off Wilson 8 rounder in the gun, an eight rounder on the belt, and of course, the ever present LCR in the front pocket, which I still do, even when carrying a Glock with a 17 rd mag.
Cause reasons.;)

[Duke]

43286

[Blackbag]

43286

What model is that sir?

[theJanitor]

Datejust? :cool:

[theJanitor]

43286

Very nice. That's exactly what I've been eyeing up from STI.

[wvincent]

Duke,
DVC P with an island sight, c'mon, how is it?

[Duke]

What model is that sir?

Rolex 116234. Super jubilee bracelet. 2018 new old stock

Sti is the DVC-P in 9mm

[Blackbag]

Rolex 116234. Super jubilee bracelet. 2018 new old stock

Sti is the DVC-P in 9mm

Sorry, should have specified the Beautiful STI! Thanks!

[Duke]

Duke,
DVC P with an island sight, c'mon, how is it?

It’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever shot.

Recoil - truly like a 22. So you have to remind yourself not to fight it.


I’m only 345 rounds in - have been crunched for time

Hot ammo runs better than range stuff. Magtech feels sluggish.

None of the 3 included mags will chamber a round at slidelock when full - but run perfectly once loaded

I’m giving it a lot of leeway as I don’t expect to run 100% with no break in

I need an RMR anti flicker plate - it’ll be here Sunday.

I shot the best 4 shot group of my life at 25M - all touching - then blew up to 3” with a terrible last shot.

Took some rough spots off the frame around the grip safety.

Going to try and get 1k through it a day soon

[GJM]

Got to handle a Staccato and DVC model this week. The DVC was about a grand more and felt much more refined.

[Duke]

Got to handle a Staccato and DVC model this week. The DVC was about a grand more and felt much more refined.

Yea. I had to have the comp and island sight.

[JM Campbell]

43286

Very nice, I want it. We need a separate thread with your range reports if you have time please sir.


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[Duke]

“It’s as heavy as 10 boxes that you may be moving...”

43376

[Poconnor]

I wish they made that model without the holes in the slide. I need to find a staccato to test fire. If I like it I will have sell guns off or actually get a job again

[LittleLebowski]

Dang, that's purty.


43286

[Duke]

I wish they made that model without the holes in the slide. I need to find a staccato to test fire. If I like it I will have sell guns off or actually get a job again

it needs the holes to be light enough to cycle.. 9lb recoil spring.

They make pretty decent front cocking serrations too.

[shane45]

I dont think it needs the holes to cycle. I think thats just the trend.

[Caballoflaco]

I dont think it needs the holes to cycle. I think thats just the trend.

Yup, and they should be able to remove the same amount of weight without milling all the way through the slide if they wanted to.

[shane45]

Its why I went with the Costa Carry Comp, I didnt want the holes of the Omni! :D

[backtrail540]

p/B3XJYE0H8zk

Cool!!

Text from the above***

STI International is proud to be working with Hilton Yam of 10-8 Performance as an addition to Team 2011 as our Field Director of the 2011 Operational User and Armorer Program. ***
Yes! All the 1911 experience that I gathered over the years is being brought to bear in an exciting new set of programs that I am developing for STI. I’m actually at the STI factory this whole week, so stay tuned for details as the details of the programs get refined. 10-8 Performance will continue to operate as you’ve known - this an expansion of the business, and the line of 10-8 products will continue to flow and grow

[Poconnor]

I am hoping with Hilton involved with STI we will see a 10-8 STI staccato P. My favorite 1911 is my 10-8 Springfield rail gun. Hilton pictured a staccato P with a VIP grip. I think that means it takes 120mm mag. I need to shoot some of these

[Buck8154]

I am hoping with Hilton involved with STI we will see a 10-8 STI staccato P. My favorite 1911 is my 10-8 Springfield rail gun. Hilton pictured a staccato P with a VIP grip. I think that means it takes 120mm mag. I need to shoot some of these

Yes it takes a 16 rd 120mm mag...it was a picture of the US Marshal’s SOG Carry gun.

[Poconnor]

Buck, I enjoyed the podcast on Primary and secondary. I need to sell a few guns and then I will emailing you. How is the size of the 120mm grip? Glock 19 or 17 size? I guess a 1911 version is CCO or commander size? How easy is it to swap grips?

[JM Campbell]

This thread needs...

#1 more pictures

#2 a lot more pictures

#3 did I mention pictures?


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[Duke]

You can see how small I am as the Gun reaches most the way across me.

43530