Looking for an external perspective of Australia

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Hi PF members,

One thought on my mind of late is what Australia looks like externally - especially from an American viewpoint.

I know there is also a 'grass is greener' concept where I may be seeing living in the USA as far better than living in Australia and I was just wondering what Australia looks like externally - especially by Americans.

Why Americans?

I adore the American constitution - that it was made for the people and with the mindset that government can not be trusted. We have nothing like this in Australia. This is as far as I know unique compared to the rest of the world. American's from what I'm aware (well, at least a significant portion) value their freedom over perceived safety and see safety as much if not more a personal responsibility than a government one where in the rest of the western world it appears as though this is opposite.

Internally from my own perspective I have concerns that we're slowly seeing our rights dissolve and our government becoming detached from the people. Slowly our firearm are constantly being attacked. On a separate note (because it is strictly forbidden to ever use firearms with self defense here) - we have very little self defense rights to a point where it's basically nil. No castle law here. Hurt someone who's broken and entered your own house and you are essentially guilty until proven innocent. (The onus is on you to prove your innocents, and largely at the mercy of whatever prosecutor and judge combination you get).

Laws continue to be introduced that infringe on our free speech, and it appears that our governments are becoming more aggressive against law abiding citizens whilst turning a blind eye to major crime. As mentioned gunlaws are constantly targeted at the law abiding whilst ignoring criminals. Non firearm related - Doing as little as 2mph over the speed limit in a 60mph zone will now get you a fine for around $145USD. Get caught dealing drugs and you can get off with less than that! (I've seen this from Aussie police shows on TV).

More importantly - we have no bill of rights. Our country wasn't formed on mistrust of our government so our constitution isn't built with the mindset to keep the people free from the government. And while I see many people disprove of what our government is doing or the direction we're headed - people seem powerless to change the government's direction. We have some political parties that have started up to try and stop this but fear, apathy and selfishness seem to keep the majority of Australian's voting for one of the two major parties that both have us headed down the same road.

So, while I loved growing up in Australia I wonder at times if it's becoming a different country and think that an external perspective may shed a different viewpoint to what I'm seeing internally.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate that we still have many great things here. We have a relatively safe nation compared to others (at present that is - I'm not convinced this will remain). We have a relatively good balanced health care. (There's of course room for improvement but don't let people fool you in saying that wretched Obamacare system you have is what we currently have here Australia). I can park my car on the side of the road in rural areas and have a sleep without fear of being attacked. But internally - I see that we are a nation of apathy. People don't seem to care about where Australia's going as long as it doesn't affect them.

So - from an American viewpoint - would you mind sharing your thoughts on Australia and Australians? Have you had much of an interaction with us? Have you observed our country headed in any particular direction from an external viewpoint that concerns you and if so to what point?

[pooty]

First thing that comes to mind


In 1978, at the age of 28, Charles was exposed to watersports in New York during a visit to the Mineshaft bar.[3] Returning to Australia, Charles realised at the Signal Bar in Sydney how he could incorporate his newly discovered interest in watersports into the bar which lacked special facilities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troughman

[Joe in PNG]

I'm an American who works in PNG, and spends a few weeks each year in Cairns, so my view may not be super external. Lots of rambling ahead.

First, official Aussies that I've dealt with seem to be a bit less officious than others I've dealt with. I've not seen that Petty Tyrant thing some small officials have. They're more willing to work with you- but there's definately some firm 'noes' to be encountered. Especially where Quarantine is involved.

Second, most Aussies tend to be fairly forthright, honest, and friendly- and fond of friendly insults. There's also a bit more respect for tradies that's lacking in American culture- a person in the US who didn't get a degree is seen as somehow deficient, as if working a trade is a booby prize for stupid people.

Third, as an occasional user of your health care system, I'm glad that private doctors & ect are available, and often cheaper than the same services in the US. Then again, most of the US services expect your insurance company to pick up the cost and charge you accordingly.

Fourth, Qantas is a far better airline than pretty much all the US carriers. See the point about petty tyrants above.

Finally (until I can think of some more stuff), Australia is seen by the ignorant as a place full of deadly things that want to kill you- sharks, snakes, spiders, koalas, and so on. Which is funny, as Florida has the same scary things (sharks, snakes, spiders, crocs, jellyfish), plus a few more besides (bears, panthers, Florida Man, yankee drivers, ect)

[Stephanie B]

I've never been, but my dad flew there on a business trip in the '80s. I asked him what he thought of it. He thought a minute, then said: "It's a hell of a long way to fly to get to southern California."

I doubt if he had any time to do much in the way of tourist stuff, though.

[LittleLebowski]

I really liked Perth and Brisbane. I felt like the Aussies appreciated Americana servicemen more than Americans and I really liked the Australian women and vice versa. It’s too bad that Australia is an anti gun, PC commonwealth country :(

[Robinson]

A lot of Americans probably get their impression of Australia from dumb movies and beer commercials, so are ignorant about what the country is really like.

The American Constitution and specifically the Bill of Rights is certainly unique and provides protections against governmental over-reach, at least in theory. In practice, those protections are being threatened more and more all the time by politicians and sectors of society that are increasingly willing to sacrifice freedom for perceived security. Who knows how long the rights of Americans will be actually protected by the Constitution in a practical sense -- hopefully as long as the Republic stands. That is why the makeup of the Supreme Court is deemed so important here -- the Court is obligated to rule according to Constitutional bounds. At least that is what is supposed to happen.

[Zincwarrior]

From movies it looks like a sort of hillbilly deathworld, so pretty much West Texas with a different accent and less guns.

[HCountyGuy]

I’ve always had some draw to Australia, despite not having been yet. My wife got to go on a student ambassador thing in her youth and she loved it.

In regards to government practices, I watch places like Australia and the UK because the anti-gunners hold them up as the beacons of civilization because they have super-strict firearms laws. However, as you’ve noted, they have some other draconian ideologies that seem to have come about in the aftermath. Things like the idea that violence committed in the act of self-defense is abhorrent. Those countries’ willingness to be ultra-PC has turned them in to quite the models of government overreach, especially considering how they’ll jail you for daring speak against their progressivism.

It boggles my mind that people who rant and rave about our freedoms want us to adopt similar practices to basically toss away those freedoms. I’ve come to observe those that support that line of thought are elitists in the sense that your freedoms are only good if it supports their worldview. They obviously missed the point of our country’s historical fights against such tyrannical behavior. So naturally they want to restrict others who don’t share their beliefs (so much for tolerance and diversity).



Off-topic: Women with Aussie accents are hot!

[Joe in PNG]

I have noticed that most Aussies I encounter are generally anti-gun when the subject comes up.

I've also noticed that most of the ones I've talked to are pro-Trump. As in making a point of bringing him up.

[Jim Watson]

All I know about Australia is what I read in 'Tramp Royale', Heinlein ca 1954. The Antipodes Tourist Industry had not been invented and he found Australia just bloody awful (and New Zealand worse.)

Things are better now, I had a coworker who went to Australia on holiday and had as his main ambition saving up enough to go back for longer. Unfortunately, he did not live to make the trip.

What are Australian demographics? Do they have the unassimilated minorities that are problematic in Western Europe and the USA? Or have the Moslems not been encouraged in their activities as has been reported?

[pooty]

A friendly, laid back people with a great sense of humor and interesting language, and everyone is descended from deported convicts.
90% of Australians live in houses at the beach, the other 10% in the Outback, a dangerous swamp.
Australians never have go to the zoo because there are wild animals everywhere. Aboriginal elders are consulted for their wisdom.
Ethnic Australian clothing consists of board shorts and a tank top printed by a southeast Asian beer company.
Because of all the Asian immigration, I see Americans fighting part of WWIII thereabouts.
edit: so if you want to allowed to walk around and shoot at things whenever you feel like, you can either come to The States, or write a new constitution after the war.

[JAD]

I have been a few times, scattered over 20 years and focused only on business in Sydney and Melbourne. I find Australians to be good to do business with — notably innovative (I was heavily involved with Cochlear Ltd, for example, and that’s just flat cool) and honorable. Political opinions are similar to the other Commonwealth countries — a tendency towards statism, isolationism, and xenophobia — but with a certain edge that’s definitely not present elsewhere (maybe in the African cw, I have no experience). It is the only country where a native has noticed my accent and made a point of interrupting my Devonshire tea in order to tell me how important the NRA is, and not to make the same mistakes they did of giving an inch. I agreed and appreciated it.

The country has become so bigoted towards Catholics, though, that I won’t go anymore if I can help it. We have a bunch of stuff to do there, but if I’m going to face opprobrium I’d rather make the shorter flight to Norway. It’s easy to find young colleagues who are eager to make the flight. Young engineers think of Oz as a vacation wonderland.

[OlongJohnson]

90% of Australians live in houses at the beach, the other 10% in the Outback, a dangerous swamp.

Everyone knows the outback is a desert.

Oh, and...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZb4vwMV8lY

[TiroFijo]

Isn't it the country that doesn't want people like Israel Folau to play for them?

[SeriousStudent]

I really liked Perth and Brisbane. I felt like the Aussies appreciated Americana servicemen more than Americans and I really liked the Australian women and vice versa. It’s too bad that Australia is an anti gun, PC commonwealth country :(

I have a really nice WestPac libbo story about Perth I'll write up when I have time. It is safe for work.

1MarDiv Corporal, Guadalcanal veteran came back and married his Australian girlfriend after the war. I got to stay at his house when we had a 72 in Perth.

He has since passed, but we swapped Christmas cards for years. More details tonight when I have time to write.

[Cookie Monster]

Have not been to Australia but I spent 3 months traveling and backpacking through New Zealand about a decade ago. Been trying to find a way back there every since and looked at immigrating or spending a year or two there.

I hiked the PCT for a few weeks with an old retired engineer "Aussie Dave" I met randomly and have a another twin parent friend from Australia.

So really swallow look but man I'd go to visit and work for a few years in those countries. Things are pretty good where I am at though.

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What are Australian demographics? Do they have the unassimilated minorities that are problematic in Western Europe and the USA? Or have the Moslems not been encouraged in their activities as has been reported?

Australia has a lot of immigrants. Like America we had a lot that came across in the country's growing phase but assimilated quite well into the population. More recently though we are seeing a similar pattern to Western Europe where more are coming across and creating their own communities with their own laws. (Although our media and politicians will refuse to talk about it - there are no-go zones here in Australia now as there are in the UK and elsewhere). Australia isn't affected as much by this as Western Europe. I think geography - both location and land mass has subdued this a little but given time I think we're headed for a similar scenario.

[Stephanie B]

I felt like the Aussies appreciated Americana servicemen more than Americans and I really liked the Australian women and vice versa.
I heard one master chief tell someone: "Kid, iffn' you can't get laid in Australia or Israel, you need to cut your <deleted><deleted> off."

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Isn't it the country that doesn't want people like Israel Folau to play for them?

It's the country where the media and corporations don't want Israel Folau to play. He started a 'go fun me' for his legal battles. Gofundme cancelled it on some made up ground of hate speech. Some other organisation in Australia picked it up and I believe raised 1.5 million in the first 24hrs for him. :D I'm not sure where it's up to now. For Australia that's quite significant given our small population size. So on the media forefront it would appear as though Australia doesn't like him, but behind the scenes - the stuff the media and PC group don't want people to know about it's a different story.

The hate against free speech and the so called 'tolerant' group that are vehement against anyone who doesn't support their own views is in full motion here - pushing as hard as they can to shut down any individual or business that dare stands up. Unfortunately Australian's have been a sleepy lot. I'm not sure whether we'll wake up fully in time to fight back or not. The media has done an incredible job on twisting the mindsets of many Australian's here.

Banks, large corporate companies, the majority of the media and certain government parties are trying everything they can to push a certain agenda - although I get the feeling that you have the same issue in America. (Which has me wondering just how connected all these entities really are.

But I guess it's the same as us looking at America. From what we observe (if we don't do any research of our own) - the media would have us believe that American's hate Trump, he got in there only by lying, technicalities and external Russian influence and that he'll be out on his but come 2020 and the only ones that support him are Nazi extreme right wing crazies. For those of us willing to dig a bit deeper we see that it's actually the media that are out rightly blatantly lying to us, that he's actually quite popular amongst a number of level headed Americans and whilst Trump has some tenancies that can be embarrassing (Twitter feeds), many of his policies have some deep thought to them. On a personal note I wish we had someone in our country like him that would shake things up and arrest the descent in the direction we're heading.

I take it from the replies so far that people don't look at Australia and think "Abandon ship - any sane person would be fleeing that country and heading to the USA"? I admit I feel that way about certain Western Europle countries at the moment and was just wondering if people would think the same about Australia and that I can't see it for being part of it, or whether Australia seems a little more sound?

[BehindBlueI's]

Other than one expat friend who lives there, I don't really have an impression. I have an impression of general and field grade officers from when they would come through an internal checkpoint. The officers had big floppy hats, I'm not sure where there camo pattern was supposed to blend in at, but they were unfailingly polite and affable. Aussie officers treated you like a person they'd just sat next to at a bar and were looking to socialize a bit. British officers were polite but stiff, you were not of their social standing but could safely exchange customary pleasantries in passing. American field grade officers assumed you were furniture and thus did not bother to interact with you, with rare exception.

[TGS]

Australia has always struck me as the best ally we never knew we had. For some reason, I don't know why, Australia seems to be disproportionately supportive of the US at both the grassroots and national government level.

Australian troops have always struck me as eminently professional, albeit that seems to be a cultural thing among all Commonwealth troops.

My usual weekly interaction with Australians is through the internet via gaming on Australian servers, and I usually have to quit the server because I can't stop laughing; to the point my stomach is hurting. They always seem to have this drunk redneck sort of personality but with a very advanced sense of humor.

Overall, my impression of Australia is a great country that is a perfect example of why our Bill of Rights are both unique and very important. Truthfully, I'm not well read on the goings on in Australia and would never try to qualify that opinion or share it with anyone if I wasn't first asked to.

I can't really share more without just repeating things I've heard.

[OlongJohnson]

My earlier post was not really serious.

I think for now, the US is in better shape than Australia. I don't know how long we'll hang on.

Since Australia is part of the western world culturally, politically, historically, etc., this is worth a read.

https://www.amazon.com/Suicide-West-Meaning-Destiny-Liberalism/dp/1594037833/

I haven't read the new book of the same title by Jonah Goldberg, at least partly because I'm offended by the blatant ripoff of the exact title for a book delivering the same basic message, as if people are not supposed to have heard of a book that's only 50 years old.

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I take it from the replies so far that people don't look at Australia and think "Abandon ship - any sane person would be fleeing that country and heading to the USA"?

This thought was 2 years old... can't help but wonder if people's perspectives have changed or are still the same?

Too late to flee Australia now. Those in Victoria can't even even leave the state - let alone get out of the country at the moment.... Something I wouldn't have considered possible when I first started this thread. I can't help reflect back on Pre WW2 Germany and wonder how fast it all happened there for the Germans, and whether or not things will reverse here... or whether we're in for a repeat of a similar scenario with freedom's taken away permanently.

[Joe in PNG]

I hope the normal Aussie good sense will eventually prevail... but who knows in these crazy days.

[HCM]

This thought was 2 years old... can't help but wonder if people's perspectives have changed or are still the same?

Too late to flee Australia now. Those in Victoria can't even even leave the state - let alone get out of the country at the moment.... Something I wouldn't have considered possible when I first started this thread. I can't help reflect back on Pre WW2 Germany and wonder how fast it all happened there for the Germans, and whether or not things will reverse here... or whether we're in for a repeat of a similar scenario with freedom's taken away permanently.

On the guns and personal freedoms front I think y'all have a few things working against you.

1)As a Commonwealth country you inherited the UK's authoritarian "if it pleases the crown" mindset of subjects not citizens. As noted, no bill of rights means you have what ever rights the tyranny of the majority feel like granting.
2)Like many other countries you have an increasingly urban population which creates a cultural divide between Urban "progressives" and more rural and traditional ways of life.
3)You have large numbers of immigrants from non western, authoritarian cultures who are not, and are not interested in interested in assimilating.

Socialist PC culture makes all of the above worse.

COVID enforcement here in the US has been mostly voluntary or economic, people being cited and fined, need to wear masks or vaccinate as a condition of employment etc. Very few actual arrests.

If Police and the military here were doing the things I've seen going on in Australia re: COVID, they would be getting shot at.

[JRB]

Being a long-time Japanese car nut, I've corresponded with quite a few Aussie car guys. Honestly I love the 'fuck it, we'll figure it out' approach to builds and just how much enjoyment you guys get from car projects. Some of your racing scene is utterly bonkers in all the right ways. I'm sad to have seen COVID being used as an excuse to further crack down on older or modified cars, and basically prevent any kind of racing events etc from happening at all.

Honestly I've always found Aussies to be good, likeable people, and the current situation in Australia is so depressing because you folks deserve so much better.

[theJanitor]

This thought was 2 years old... can't help but wonder if people's perspectives have changed or are still the same?

Too late to flee Australia now. Those in Victoria can't even even leave the state - let alone get out of the country at the moment.... Something I wouldn't have considered possible when I first started this thread. I can't help reflect back on Pre WW2 Germany and wonder how fast it all happened there for the Germans, and whether or not things will reverse here... or whether we're in for a repeat of a similar scenario with freedom's taken away permanently.

Are the videos I'm seeing on sites like IG true without other context or circumstance (people being arrested by teams of officers for not wearing masks, or homes being raided for family gatherings), true?

[okie john]

I adore the American constitution

If you still feel this way, then please move here. We need all the help defending it that we can get.


Okie John

[BigT]

As a South African you are obviously my sworn enemies. Sorry

😆

[fixer]

The Australian experience with COVID measures has been instructive for all the wrong reasons. It is a wake up call for all of us.

I'm appalled, disgusted, and freaked-the-fuck out over Australia.

Mostly because in a country that has a foundation of western values, there is no conscionable reason to treat the citizenry like dog shit. With no exaggeration you guys have a tyrannical government that must be brought to heel. This is not supposed to happen.

I'm also concerned because I know there is a non trivial portion of our population that would support the measures observed in Australia. And a proportional number our soul-sucking political class is taking notes.

It is time to take stock of ourselves and our convictions.

[Nephrology]

"Dingo ate me baby" and "shrimp on the barby" that's all I've got.

[Joe in PNG]

The Australian experience with COVID measures has been instructive for all the wrong reasons. It is a wake up call for all of us.

I'm appalled, disgusted, and freaked-the-fuck out over Australia.

Mostly because in a country that has a foundation of western values, there is no conscionable reason to treat the citizenry like dog shit. With no exaggeration you guys have a tyrannical government that must be brought to heel. This is not supposed to happen.

I'm also concerned because I know there is a non trivial portion of our population that would support the measures observed in Australia. And a proportional number our soul-sucking political class is taking notes.

It is time to take stock of ourselves and our convictions.

One has to remember that Australia is a federated collection of states not unlike the USA. Most of what you are seeing in the news is from the state governments, especially in Labour run People's Democratic Republics not unlike Michigan, New York State, and California.

[Bigghoss]

Can you still get a new ute in Australia? My first car was a Ford Ranchero so I feel like I'm part Aussie.

[rcbusmc24]

I always got along great with the Aussie .mil guys we worked with in Iraq and Afghanistan. As for the country.... It seems to me that it started as a penal colony and is trying it's best to turn back into one...

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Are the videos I'm seeing on sites like IG true without other context or circumstance (people being arrested by teams of officers for not wearing masks, or homes being raided for family gatherings), true?

Sorry for the late reply. Been 'interesting' times here to say the least.

Yes. What you're describing you're seeing is true. The MSM are painting a particular narrative and trying their best to cover up what's been happening. There are independent journalists showing 'the other side' of the story if you know where to look, and getting harassed in ways you'd expect to see in China for their effort. There's a balance somewhere in the middle (or actually - probably far more towards the independent media's side). Some independent journalists that have done live streams (hours on end) of certain events to try and remove any accusation of bias that they can. They have been interesting to watch - and then watch what the MSM says in the evening news.


If you still feel this way, then please move here. We need all the help defending it that we can get.
Okie John

Honestly - I have been looking into options like this for a while. I've left my run way too late I fear. Unless we all get the Jab (which given my wife's previous serious and ongoing health issues due to previous medication already) isn't an option to us - our government will not allow us to leave this country. Additionally - we fall out of the qualifications for coming to America at the moment. It's not as easy as jumping on a plane with a passport and Visa anymore.


The Australian experience with COVID measures has been instructive for all the wrong reasons. It is a wake up call for all of us.

I'm appalled, disgusted, and freaked-the-fuck out over Australia.

Mostly because in a country that has a foundation of western values, there is no conscionable reason to treat the citizenry like dog shit. With no exaggeration you guys have a tyrannical government that must be brought to heel. This is not supposed to happen.

I'm also concerned because I know there is a non trivial portion of our population that would support the measures observed in Australia. And a proportional number our soul-sucking political class is taking notes.

It is time to take stock of ourselves and our convictions.

Agreed. I don't think what's happening here is unplanned, nor local. I suspect we're a trial case for the rest of the West. What you guys may not be aware of is that our premier here in Victoria is trying to pass what I call the "Dictators bill". (He calls it the pandemic bill - but if you read it - it gives him dictatorship power - he could remain in power for ever with that bill - it gives him that much power!). Apparently according to him there's too many obstacles (you know - the things in constitutions to prevent tyranny or too much power falling to one person - he calls them "obstacles") and wants to be a single man that can rule without restriction. And... he still has his backers even now. I guess Starlin and Hitler did too, so I shouldn't be surprised. We're going to find out this week if he gets that through. I already have my suspicions. My personal conviction is that we're in the proverbial far deeper than most people here even realise.

If you want to know how bad it is in Australia here's a phrase I've been telling people lately that paints a picture, but I believe...

AUSTRALIA - WITH IT'S CONSERVATIVE (so called Right Wing) FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS IN A WORST SITUATION THAN AMERICA IS UNDER BIDEN.


One has to remember that Australia is a federated collection of states not unlike the USA. Most of what you are seeing in the news is from the state governments, especially in Labour run People's Democratic Republics not unlike Michigan, New York State, and California.

Main news - absolutely. There's more truth on social media (if you know where to dig and who to trust) than there is the main stream media, for sure. I kid you not - the MSM is in full propaganda mode (and I don't say that lightly). Suppression, hiding facts, painting completely false narratives - if you watch it - you are watching very carefully crafted selected footage to a narrative - not a report on what's true. It's been like that for a while, but used to be 'spin'. Now it's complete fabrication - turning the story on it's head. I couldn't get most of what they say to be more of a lie if I tried.

They're building "quarantine camps" here still - even though they have said that there's no more need for quarantine for international arrivals. I sometimes wish I didn't know history... ignorance could be bliss at the moment!

[SCCY Marshal]

If Wake in Fright (https://youtu.be/0mh7qZq0f_w) had been a documentary, I'd immigrate in a heartbeat.