Vision and artificial light

[Gun Nerd]

I’m in my early 50s and wear progressive bifocals (with a further correction for astigmatism). To make matters worse, my dominant eye is my weaker eye. After a year-plus hiatus from shooting a few years ago, I came to realize that with my glasses on, the bumpy thing on the front of the gun was more like a smudge. Ouch.

More recently, as I observe my own performance, I notice this is only a real problem on indoor ranges - no matter how brightly lit. Outdoors, it appears that my pupils contract enough to give me a sharp front sight focus. Indoors or out, a bright orange front sight (Ameriglo CAP or homemade equivalent) helps.

My solution so far has been to wear a set of non-prescription shooting glasses when I shoot indoors; apparently, my uncorrected vision focuses perfectly at front sight distance. (One downside is that with a red dot sight on a carbine or shotgun, I get a lot of bloom.) I worry that this solution, while it helps with pure marksmanship, may cause problems in a self-defense situation where I’m wearing my street glasses - “Wait, where’s that sight I could see at the range the other day?!”

What solutions have any of you come up with?

[GJM]

Red dot.

[UNM1136]

I am experiencing similar issues, and currently more frequent eye doctor visits are the answer. I will fail qualifications if I don't have an exam and adjusted prescriptions just before quals. I discussed this earlier in one of the red dot threads. The first time I failed a qual I could not figure it out. While doing dry fire on my own I learned that with my then current prescription lenses I had two sharp, distinct, and clear front sights, and could not tell which one was the one I needed to be using. New lenses fixed that. It is independent from light levels.

I can currently tell that I need to visit the ophthalmologist because a couple of weeks ago I was doing dry fire work and could clearly and distinctly see my rear sight, but not my front sight. I put the blob in the notch, and seem to be able to work past it in the short term. This is my fifth vision shift and prescription change in five years.

I have had red dots recommended to me, and have one, I am just waiting for it to be authorized on a duty weapon...

pat

[flyrodr]

Red dot.

Ditto. Age has only increased issues with my genetically-deprived vision. Docs have done all they can with prescriptive fixes. But with "normal" prescription giving me the best correction at distances, it's hard & slow to move head so that progressive lenses bring front sight into better focus. Having shooting glasses corrected to help that, but then distance vision is compromised, so those aren't suited for normal wear.

Red dot lets me wear my normal glasses, see as best as I can (about 20/30), and shoot pretty well. With confidence that is lacking with irons.

[Gun Nerd]

I recognize the advantages of red dots, but I’m reluctant to go that route for practical considerations (e.g., pocket carry).

At some point I need to take one of my regular pistol slides out in the yard and examine how it appears in twilight or under exterior floodlights. I have a suspicion that interior fluorescent/LED lights are uniquely bad for some reason.

[SC_Dave]

Having experienced what you described I can assure you a red dot is the cure.
David

[CraigS]

A red dot may work but...1- I believe there are two types of systems to produce the dots. I have read that one seems to work better w/ astigmatism than the other. I have no idea about pistol dot sights which type they are. Also they are pretty limited as to what pistols can mount them although that is getting better all the time. 2- For HD, have you considered lasers? Depending on pistol model, the CTC laser grips usually don't cause any problems w/ holster fit, so that is a plus. The rail mount lasers or laser/lights need a dedicated holster so again, limiting what gun and what L/L will fit. 3- For other than HD shooting, I have found that a dedicated pair of glasses works great but this definitely depends on your eyes. I have a pair where the lens, the entire lens, for my dominent eye is set to focus perfectly on my front sight. The other lens is a bifocal. Each time I put them on, they feel weird for about 4-5 minutes and then I no longer notice them.

[BN]

https://dawsonprecision.com/warren-tactical-glock-tactical-fixed-sight-set-tritium-rear-tritium-front/

I like these Warren Tactical sights if you have a Glock. The white outline around the front tritium dot is huge and easy to see.

[runcible]

Disclaimer: I'm only slightly farsighted, and the only reason that I have prescription lenses is because another health concern can erratically exacerbate that issue. I wear them less rather than more; and predominately for shooting, writing, typing, and reading at the end of a long day. Most of my opinions are derived from my work with others, rather than from my own experiences. The workforce that I'm a part of is aged from their young-20s up to just shy of 60, minus one outlier in their mid-70s.

Replying broadly, as there's several different sets of realities at hand...

If qualifying as a matter of employment, one's options are much more limited than for those shooting for passion or personal reasons. Swapping out sights without prior permission can cause workplace angst, and isn't always a good option because of that. If extremely far-sighted to the point of having difficulties achieving a front-sight focus sufficient for liability purposes (e.g. qualification, potential UOF); one could make the pitch to work that given the ADEA of 1967, ADA of 1990, Hansen v. Webster, and Judy Cangealose v FBI et al; a waiver allowing for the carry, qualification with, and potential use during duty of a pre-approved personally-purchased slide and optic would constitute both a reasonable accomodation and reduce liability to the agency at no additional cost to the same. If you're near-sighted to the point of having difficulty generating sufficient index off of the target while front-sight focused; things are less clear-cut.

I know several whom use "inverted" or "reversed" bifocals as their primary eyewear, with the bias being towards their shooting ability when wearing them. If driving and other such activities that require distance vision, they can lift them temporarily.

My prescription is set for the maximum clarity of my front sight at full extension; it's notionally a hair out of focus if reading things closer to my face than that, but I generally hold books\smartphones\tablets further out and higher up than most, so it doesn't quite arise as an issue.

Eyes degrading at different rates and from different initial capabilities can make double-imaging both more likely and more distracting when it does present. Much like those whom don't have a significant relative degree to their eye dominancy, such shooters may find that they are going to get their best performance from closing one eye. For some this is a difference in the time required to generate an effective sight picture or a difference in the quality of that generated picture; but for those at the far end of the problem it may be a requirement to form a sight picture at all.

Some low-level accomodative training can be helpful for those with a recently changed prescription. Given a cleared or ersatz weapon, while wearing their correctives and with uniform lighting; such a person should sight-in on a distant target with defined edges, raise the muzzle relative to the rest of the weapon until the front sight has fully departed the rear notch, and perform the following: focus on the target until its details are crisp and fully realized and hold for 1 second, shift their focus to the front sight until its corners and edges are sharply defined and hold for 1 second, and then repeat for the full prescription (e.g. 10 repetitions). If performing these prior to a shooting session, I'd recommend keeping the repetitions to a minimum to avoid fatiguing the eyes prior to the shooting itself. If performing these after a shooting session and the implied eye fatigue that goes with that, then they may close out shooting for the remainder of the day depending on shooter ability. Ideally, such eye-sprinting is performed on a non-range day.

(For those that want to get just a tad deeper into the weeds: within the limits of your available training space, set the target either by the limits of your corrected vision (near-sighted) where it can still be sharply defined in-focus OR by the limits of your uncorrected vision (far-sighted) where the fine details can still be perceived. If doing this indoors, as most are; you may run out of space before you hit these limits, and that's ok.)

[Totem Polar]

FWIW, I’ve found that doing flashlight training at the indoor place also made it *a lot* easier to see the sights. I could see going all-WML if running irons with bad eyes is the reality.

[Gun Nerd]

Update - after discussion with my optometrist at my last appointment, I decided to experiment with contact lenses. She shoots, and she's almost my age, so she gets it ...

Her recommendation was to use multifocal contacts, with the necessary astigmatism correction in the dominant eye. After a 2.5 hour fitting, I walked out with samples of three lenses for the right eye, four for the left eye with another one on order, and instructions to experiment for a few days and report back.

(Coincidentally, it worked out that I picked up a spare PX4CC on my way to the appointment, so I disassembled it in the gun shop and brought the slide in to the doctor's office. A "C" on the eye chart was a pretty fair simulation of a Dot Torture-type target.)

The concept of the fitting was to find a prescription that would let me see the sights well with my dominant eye, and the target with my non-dominant eye. I'll chronicle the results here.

Day 1: Both lenses with high correction for near vision, no correction for astigmatism (the multifocal with my necessary correction for distance plus an astigmatism correction is a special order item). Not a success; poor distance vision and a lot of glare at night. Couldn't read license plates, etc. Didn't get to the range.

Day 2: Non-dominant eye with medium correction. Much better for driving but hard to read up close (especially on a phone and/or in dim light.) Made it to the range and, holy moly, I can see a 25-yard B-8 ... at 25 yards.

Failed the Rangemaster Advanced Bullseye -- but due to a yanked shot from the draw at 5, not because I couldn't see.
Narrowly passed a Vickers 300.
Made it to 10 yards on Pat Mac's 5-second standards. Threw four shots low at 15, but I think that was a trigger or grip issue.
Shot about the same as usual on other drills.


The sight picture is a little weird. Basically I'm seeing the target with my non-dominant eye, and sights with my dominant eye. The front sight looks sort of translucent, almost like shooting a red dot. But there's definitely some improvement. I had trigger control problems throughout the session, but I don't know if that's a result of trying to "grab the shot," or of going back to the G19 after several sessions with the PX4CC. (I have an IDPA match coming up, and don't yet have a strong side holster for the Beretta.)

More to come ...

[NH Shooter]

My solution so far has been to wear a set of non-prescription shooting glasses when I shoot indoors; apparently, my uncorrected vision focuses perfectly at front sight distance. (One downside is that with a red dot sight on a carbine or shotgun, I get a lot of bloom.) I worry that this solution, while it helps with pure marksmanship, may cause problems in a self-defense situation where I’m wearing my street glasses - “Wait, where’s that sight I could see at the range the other day?!”

What solutions have any of you come up with?

I'm in the same boat, been wearing corrective lenses for near-sightedness for nearly 60 years. At one time I was extremely near-sighted, to the point I could not drive without corrective lenses. Over the last 10 to 15 years, the condition has moderated to the point I can drive without corrective lenses. I need to be right on top of those small street name signs to read them, but I can once I'm right next to them.

To the point, I now shoot without any corrective lenses. The front sight is almost perfectly sharp and the target sharp enough to get hits where needed. But, like you the front sight becomes unacceptably blurry if I'm wearing my glasses. I'm due for a new pair (glasses, that is) and am tempted to get a second set with no correction for my dominant eye. The only other thing I'm going to try is an eyeglass neck cord and get in the habit wearing the glasses around my neck like a Fudd when I'm not driving.

Growing old is a real barrel of monkeys, isn't it?

[Gun Nerd]

I’m thinking my ultimate solution might be monovision contacts with my dominant eye optimized for front sight distance, in combination with progressive bifocals that are uncorrected at the top - basically full-time reading glasses.

[JHC]

The big impact of lighting on my near acuity is why I'm looking seriously at target focused shooting.

[Totem Polar]

With the exception of some members I’ve PM’d with here, my eyes are probably as bad or worse than the folks in this thread. I’m currently doing glasses *over* contacts, and selling off guns that I can’t put XS sights on. XS sights are a Godsend for people with really bad eyes.

[TGS]

To the point, I now shoot without any corrective lenses. The front sight is almost perfectly sharp and the target sharp enough to get hits where needed. But, like you the front sight becomes unacceptably blurry if I'm wearing my glasses.

Ditto. I've talked to a few eye doctors about this and it's just the way it is. I was dissuaded from doing lasik/PRK by both a lasik/PRK doctor as well as a regular eye doctor because it would destroy my ability to focus on the front sight.

My solution is to keep on' keepin' on with glasses, which allow me to have clear vision and ID targets, but looking over the top of the glasses allows me to have an effortlessly crystal clear front sight with both eyes open. Glasses don't make my front sight unacceptably blurry per se, but it makes it harder to develop a front sight focus especially as light levels decrease.

Contacts? I'm completely fucked with contacts. It's impossible for me to focus on the front sight with contacts.

[Gun Nerd]

So, I’d gotten into a pretty good groove with getting to the range once a week. Then, COVID - dry practice a few times a week, and never wearing my contacts because they’re worse for computer work.

Finally, on Saturday, I got out to a class. Not only was it my first live fire in two months, but it was also my first time shooting with the contacts and astigmatism lenses in outdoor light (ranging from brilliant sunshine to overcast).

Holy moly. Within the 3-15 yard distances at which we shot, I didn’t even have to think about focusing on the front sight, because I could see everything more clearly than I ever have in my life. It was kind of like shooting a red dot - I would look at the target and a crisp, bright front sight was just there. In fact, it was all so clear that it was sometimes too much information - my eyes were processing the target so clearly that I wasn’t calling my shots or tracking the sights as well as I needed to. On a couple of drills I was distinctly distracted by the shot-up target.

Overall, this seems like about as good as it’s going to get - but will force me to climb a new learning curve.