RFI - Multidayhigh round count classes - hand protection

[Medusa]

So I’m gonna take a uspsa class from tactical performance center later this year, involving 500 rounds a day for three days.

I’ve done 500 round days before and been fine, but never three in a row. They recommend having KPT tape or similar for protection of the hands, but I’m not really familiar with the how of doing that. The beavertail on my Elite sometimes will abrade my strong side thumb on the side of the lower joint, but I’ve built up a callous there from shooting it a lot. I don’t know if it’ll be enough for 1500 rounds.

So I guess I’m asking, how do you protect your hands over multi-day high round count classes, if at all, and how much do you try practicing ahead of time to get used to the way any such protection affects the feel of the weapon in your hands ?

Thanks for any suggestions.

[LittleLebowski]

Athletic or painters tape where your hands get abraded.

Dry fire and shoot, lots. I’ve been in exactly the same spot as you with my “Glock knuckle” callous, but other things happened to my hands, mags pinching the heel of my hand, loading mags, shit like that.

That’s a pretty hardcore class, totally jealous.

[Medusa]

Athletic or painters tape where your hands get abraded.

Dry fire and shoot, lots. I’ve been in exactly the same spot as you with my “Glock knuckle” callous, but other things happened to my hands, mags pinching the heel of my hand, loading mags, shit like that.

That’s a pretty hardcore class, totally jealous.

I dry fire daily and do a lot of reload practice, and shoot a lot. I note that bandaids and such seldom seem to want to stick to my skin, but I’ll get some athletic tape I guess. What brands do people like ?

[GJM]

TPC wants you to tell them as soon as you feel the start of a hot spot, as it has implications for technique as well as comfort. A friend with an X5 with a carbide grip took some hurtin’ on day one of Comp Boot Camp, and liberally applied KT tape.

For a high round count class, I would be cautious with your grips or grip treatment, and shoot lower PF ammo. PMC 115 is soft.

What are your grips and have you considered having that edge rounded, like Ernest (and I am sure others) does?

[Darth_Uno]

Spray your hands down with Plasti-Dip.

Or just get whatever tape is cheap at Walmart. All you're trying to do is avoid the mild annoyance of a blister for a couple days. Just wrap it up loosely around your hand wherever it makes contact with the weapon and you suspect you'll get some sore spots. You don't wan't to restrict movement, you're just heading off any chafing. Or just go to the sporting goods section and get a cheap pair of batting or golf gloves (no joke, they work very well).

[Medusa]

TPC wants you to tell them as soon as you feel the start of a hot spot, as it has implications for technique as well as comfort. A friend with an X5 with a carbide grip took some hurtin’ on day one of Comp Boot Camp, and liberally applied KT tape.

For a high round count class, I would be cautious with your grips or grip treatment, and shoot lower PF ammo. PMC 115 is soft.

What are your grips and have you considered having that edge rounded, like Ernest (and I am sure others) does?

Thank you. I’ve done ok with 500 rounds a day of Fiocchi 115 at nominal 1200 FPS and that is my normal non carry ammo. Standard LTT grips, which I like. No grip treatment. I don’t think I can file on the frame and remain Prod legal - can I? - and also idk about permanent mods for a single three day class.

I’ll get some kt tape. I also can always switch over to my idpa gun and gear if absolutely necessary, as the Px4CC beavertail doesn’t impinge at all and I’ve done 500 round days with it as well.

[fwrun]

I believe the worst aspect will be mag loading for you. Those feed lips are going to suck if loading by hand.

[Medusa]

I believe the worst aspect will be mag loading for you. Those feed lips are going to suck if loading by hand.

I have a maglula and use it religiously.

[whomever]

How about fingerless gloves?

I dunno about blisters from shooting, but for foot blisters while hiking the paper type of first aid tape that came out a few years ago is way better than the old school stuff.

[runcible]

For high round-count classes, I reccommend the following practices:

Known wear-points on the digits should be taped in advance of the skin being significantly damaged or a blister being formed. I prefer to start the strip of tape on the inside surface of the knuckle or segment in question, run the tape over one side of the digit, and then curl that digit fully inwards before wrapping over the top, down the next side, and closing the loop. This, so as to prevent restriction or constriction from the athletic tape (1" preferred over the 1.5", boxes are more cost-efficient than singular rolls). If the web of the hand is inevitably abraded; than preference is to start a run of tape from the lower edge of the wrist, cross diagonally across the back of the hand to the web between thumb and forefinger, round the edge and onto the palm and immediately spiral around the thickest portion of the thumb, until the tape is at the top edge of the wrist, and finish with a closed loop around the wrist; this, so as to have as little tape between the palm and pistol when shooting.

(For me personally, I used to wear through the edge of the knuckle of my shooting-side social finger between 175 and 200rd into a package; and sometime after ~250rd start wearing through the surface of my support-side index finger. Much of that has been alleviated by switching to an extremely muscular grip, more so than I was already using at the time; but I frankly just don't shoot nearly as much these days. Thumbs get taped if I'm teaching a lot of sub-compacts in one day, as my preferred technique for low-profile slide-lock\release levers can be wearing with repetitions.)

If you have sweaty palms or already have a preferrence for it; bring a climber's chalk bag with sufficient chalk within it to last the day. Wet skin tears more easily and can distract when working to identify and memorize tactile reference points; chalking up as required can reduce distractors and provide for slightly better learning by touch.

(I'd recommend having a small container of lotion tossed into the bag\bucket\pouch, for day's end to keep skin-cracking and the itchies at bay.)

I would strongly recommend that you bring a lacrosse ball to such an event; particularly if you've got a disparity in hand-size (implied greater use of available muscular strength) and\or use more than just your forearm+thumb muscles to shoot (e.g. pecs+traps). During breaks; you'll be able to roll and knead away at the meaty portion of your thumbs (rolling the ball between your palms), roll out the inner surfaces of each forearm (holding the ball in-hand and turning at the wrist), and with a suitably unyielding and vertical surface roll out the long vertical stretch of each trapezius muscle where it runs adjacent to the associated scapula. If that latter-most is the main limiting factor for high-round count sessions, a 'peanut' lacrosse ball may be indicated for efficiency and effectiveness.

(Lacrosse balls are incredibly inexpensive bought by the box, and curiously pricy for the individual; I'd recommend to buy no less than a box of a dozen, and then have both spares and possible gifts. As far as the peanut, I generally buy the 5BILLION brand ones available on Amazon.)

Verifying the recent trim of your fingernails may also pay dividends, prior to the first round on TD1; tired hands, running the slide, and being endwards of a long day may pair poorly with nails long enough to snag and tear.

Unrelated to protecting the hands; given the likely loss of time to reloading magazines, rehydrants and pre-packaged water are slightly more strongly indicated than on other more baseline courses; it just becomes that much easier for such needs to fall by the wayside due to the volume of reloading involved, and then failure modes creep that much closer.

[Josh Runkle]

Moleskin


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[revchuck38]

Going off on a similar tangent, bring every kittening mag you have for that gun, and load them the night before. I load mags that hold 15 or more rounds with 15 rounds because I find it easier to just dump 15 rounds from an ammo box into my hand rather than picking one or two more out to top them off, plus not having them full makes them easier to insert and lock in place. Having the mags loaded when you get there puts you ahead of the power curve and gives you that extra minute to slam some water/Gatorade/whatever during breaks.

[Gater]

[QUOTE=runcible;899640]For high round-count classes, I reccommend the following practices:

Known wear-points on the digits should be taped in advance of the skin being significantly damaged or a blister being formed.[QUOTE=runcible;899640]

Some good advice here. I don't usually have a problem with my thumb, but the non-trigger fingers of my dominant hand are going to get eaten up at the first joint in a high round count class. I think hand size and how it interacts with the gun is a major factor in this, but whatever the issue I know it is going to happen and try to prevent it--I'll wrap them before there is an issue. For those fingers, I've had pretty good results from using Band-aid flexible fabric bandages on that joint (with the pads facing the gun, obviously). If you go this route, don't cheap out on the brand or type you use--it makes a difference. It would be harder to get one to adhere and stay put in the web of the thumb, where I occasionally do have issues.

https://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Fabric-Adhesive-Bandages-100/dp/B0754J4CZJ/ref=nav_ya_signin?keywords=flexible+fabric+bandage s+1%22+X+3&qid=1562203767&s=gateway&sr=8-6&

[JAD]

I have a maglula and use it religiously.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190704/7135a5ad38ae347c898f090f558d03c1.jpg

Sorry for the drift.

To your point: tape it with J&J medical tape if it hurts a little. Replace the tape if the tape starts to move. Gloves mess with me or I’d recommend them. A mid-class switch to a different gun is preferable to 1000 reps with a gimpy grip.

[Medusa]

{Clipped}

To your point: tape it with J&J medical tape if it hurts a little. Replace the tape if the tape starts to move. Gloves mess with me or I’d recommend them. A mid-class switch to a different gun is preferable to 1000 reps with a gimpy grip.

I don’t want to use gloves either. Why j and j med tape as opposed to whatever athletic tape I mentioned above as tpc’s recommendation?

[beenalongtime]

I am certainly interested in the gloved aspect, as I wonder if it would be allowed, or covered (what if it was a where do you live/shooting in winter type of class). I wrenched for a few years, and used gloves to reduce some of the impact fatigue, and still keep some around. (most recent trial ones are MUCH thinner)

[HCM]

If you have time, consider sending the gun to LTT for his carry bevel. Someone will have to answer about production legal but it is an LTT gun ...

On another note, shooting handguns, especially at speed involves the whole body, not just the hands so my recommendation for a 3 day class would be an RX for Ibuprofen 800mg. If you hurt / feel bad it detracts from the learning you are paying for.

Re: tape - what ever you get, I find cloth tape sticks best regardless of type / brand also wider tape 2” or 3” sticks better. You can alwaYs cut it down with some scissors or med shears.

[Medusa]

If you have time, consider sending the gun to LTT for his carry bevel. Someone will have to answer about production legal but it is an LTT gun ...

On another note, shooting handguns, especially at speed involves the whole body, not just the hands so my recommendation for a 3 day class would be an RX for Ibuprofen 800mg. If you hurt / feel bad it detracts from the learning you are paying for.

Re: tape - what ever you get, I find cloth tape sticks best regardless of type / brand also wider tape 2” or 3” sticks better. You can alwaYs cut it down with some scissors or med shears.

Thanks. Yeah, not gonna bevel my 92s, for reasons discussed elsewhere, but wouldn’t have time even if, contrary to fact, I wanted to. I’ve got anti inflammatories covered....been involved in several sports over the years where they come in handy.

[JAD]

I don’t want to use gloves either. Why j and j med tape as opposed to whatever athletic tape I mentioned above as tpc’s recommendation?

I’m good with the TPC recommendation but have used the jnj personally. The advantage of med tape is that it is easier to find at a small town Walgreens. HCM is right to say that the important thing is that it’s cloth tape.

[1slow]

I military grade duct tape known wear points.
Usually Glock knuckle, make sure you tape i while bent in shooting grip.
At Rogers, using a G17 with skateboard tape, I taped the finger tips of my shooting hand 3rd and 4th fingers. This was because my support hand grip crushing them into the tape made them sore.

You can toughen the skin through dry practice and soaking them in brine like old style bare knuckle fighters.

[Medusa]

Like most women shooters, tough as we may be, I won’t be soaking my hands in brine any time soon. As i mentioned, I dry fire and shoot a lot. I’ll try to get some tapes of different kinds and tape over the already formed callous on my thumb, see what sticks and what feels the most natural.

[LittleLebowski]

Honestly, I think you’re good. Bring athletic and painter’s tape, try both as needed. Your attitude is good, this isn’t your first rodeo, you’ve been dryfiring, and shooting for a while; you’re fine. I don’t know how the weather is where the class is, but don’t underestimate how much shorts can help with temperature regulation. Also, simple running shoes may not be tactical, but they feel great. I assume you’ve already got a good belt and you’re good on mag carriers (for a class like this, you’ll probably want to be carrying more mags than you normally do).

If you have money lying around, lots of spare loaded mags rock. Again, not sure on the venue, but a folding chair helps a lot.

I hope that you write a class review here.

[Bart Carter]

I have shot the 1500 round and 2500 round TPC classes. If you use gloves, I have found golf gloves and Mechanix Wear 0.5 mm gloves work well. My favorite is the Mechanix Wear.

I also occasionally use flexible band-aids. Don't use the cheaper brands, you get what you pay for. Besides the straight, get the other shapes too.

But my go-to solution now is New Skin (https://amzn.to/2Lybv18). I put it on my under-the-trigger-guard finger, the web knuckle and the palm. Those are the spots that rub for me. When you use a forward cant and grip properly those are the pressure points. I put on several layers, drying in between.

Oh, and take plenty of notes. :p

[1slow]

Bill Rogers has some good thin shooting gloves.

The brine was slightly tongue & cheek.

[Medusa]

I’m a big fan of new skin. Carry it in my range stuff. I hadn’t thought of putting it on in advance. That’s a good idea, thank you.

I’m a nerd and have always found note taking aids retention of whatever I study.

I have 7 match quality mags and a belt that holds 5, so, should be ok there. My gear is pretty standard uspsa stuff. If I need to switch to my idpa weapon and gear, 7 mags for that and can carry 4 at a pinch.

I will try to do an AAR after the class.



I have shot the 1500 round and 2500 round TPC classes. If you use gloves, I have found golf gloves and Mechanix Wear 0.5 mm gloves work well. My favorite is the Mechanix Wear.

I also occasionally use flexible band-aids. Don't use the cheaper brands, you get what you pay for. Besides the straight, get the other shapes too.

But my go-to solution now is New Skin (https://amzn.to/2Lybv18). I put it on my under-the-trigger-guard finger, the web knuckle and the palm. Those are the spots that rub for me. When you use a forward cant and grip properly those are the pressure points. I put on several layers, drying in between.

Oh, and take plenty of notes. :p

[Medusa]

I changed my schedule around due to likely adopting a dog this weekend and wanting to be home for that, so will be doing the 2500 round class later this year. My 92 callous is in full effect by now and I think I’m gonna be ok with that and new skin if needed, but the calloused area is the only place my 92s seem to abrade me at all.

[mmc45414]

I changed my schedule around due to likely adopting a dog this weekend
Pics of the dog... [emoji41]



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[Medusa]

Pics of the dog... [emoji41]



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Other thread on puppy training books is where I’ll likely post any pix of her royal mischievousness. It’s not certain we will get her as yet but we will know soon.

[LittleLebowski]

What breed?

[mmc45414]

Other thread on puppy training books is where I’ll likely post any pix of her royal mischievousness. It’s not certain we will get her as yet but we will know soon.
I saw after I posted, will stay tuned...

[JAD]

I changed my schedule around due to likely adopting a dog this weekend and wanting to be home for that, so will be doing the 2500 round class later this year. My 92 callous is in full effect by now and I think I’m gonna be ok with that and new skin if needed, but the calloused area is the only place my 92s seem to abrade me at all.

Well, now you have the opportunity to shoot a case in a day just for fun, and evaluate from there. Mostly seriously, that is the sort of thing I would talk myself into doing.

[Medusa]

Well, now you have the opportunity to shoot a case in a day just for fun, and evaluate from there. Mostly seriously, that is the sort of thing I would talk myself into doing.

That’s possible, provided I keep good concentration and focus; else I’ll do a few 500 round days in a row in my own and see how that goes. I’ve already come close over some 3 day stretches and been fine. I think I’ll be ok.

[fatdog]

Known wear-points on the digits should be taped in advance of the skin being significantly damaged or a blister being formed. .

That, and I started using this stuff https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001ANMYRI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

[Hambo]

I don’t want to use gloves either.

Before everybody got operator AF, we used to wear football receiver gloves. They're very thin, but it still took me a while to get used to the trigger with gloves on. Eventually I could shoot with or without and not notice a difference.

What kills me now isn't recoil, it's the DA trigger and decocking. My hands are a jacked up a bit from injuries and age, though.

[willie]

That’s possible, provided I keep good concentration and focus; else I’ll do a few 500 round days in a row in my own and see how that goes. I’ve already come close over some 3 day stretches and been fine. I think I’ll be ok.

All jokes aside, you may be shooting excessively. 500 rd days and 2500 rd classes invite repetitive type injuries to wrist and elbows specifically and perhaps to the shoulder. When I was much younger and shooting more, I had to use a wrist weight on my dominant hand to reduce felt recoil. There used to be some shock absorber wrist gismo's containing a liquid, and some used these. When still a teen, I developed a palm callous from extensive handgun shooting.

[willie]

I changed my schedule around due to likely adopting a dog this weekend and wanting to be home for that, so will be doing the 2500 round class later this year. My 92 callous is in full effect by now and I think I’m gonna be ok with that and new skin if needed, but the calloused area is the only place my 92s seem to abrade me at all.

Willie is a good name for a dog, male or female. No charge, either.