SIG P320 XFive Legion

[Tokarev]

A few decent pics of the new gun. I assume this will be immediately popular with USPSA and the like.

No real news about the pistol itself here. I suppose it is still too new.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/7/2/sig-sauer-announces-p320-xfive-legion-pistol/

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[CanineCombatives]

Ordered today, doesnt show an eta but I'm sure it'll be soon, gonna stick a romeo 1 pro on it, no eta on that yet either:)

[amyacker]

I'm a Glock fan so I'm biased. I looked at sig and chose a 19x for my most recent purchase.

[fpnunes]

Any idea on what the street price for these is likely to be? I need this like a hole in the head but seems like a fun gun to have.

[Zincwarrior]

There is one site offering to sell just the grips when they come available. If you already have an X 5 (say you acquired yours a two weeks after this was first announced...) this should be a good substitute.

[GardoneVT]

“We are really excited about the introduction of the SIG Sauer P320 XFive Legion to the market because it embodies the forward-thinking SIG Sauer mindset when it comes to product development,” said Tom Taylor, SIG Sauer chief marketing officer

Blech, can someone translate this into English please? :confused:

[GJM]

“We are really excited about the introduction of the SIG Sauer P320 XFive Legion to the market because it embodies the forward-thinking SIG Sauer mindset when it comes to product development,” said Tom Taylor, SIG Sauer chief marketing officer

Blech, can someone translate this into English please? :confused:

Sure. Shooters were taking a 320 X5 and adding Tungsten weight at $650 (400 for the grip and 250 for the plug), chopping on the optics slot to fit a DP Pro, and doing trigger work, making the X5 a nearly $2,000 pistol. Now retail is $899, with a lower street supply once supply catches up with demand.

[Zincwarrior]

Sure. Shooters were taking a 320 X5 and adding Tungsten weight at $650 (400 for the grip and 250 for the plug), chopping on the optics slot to fit a DP Pro, and doing trigger work, making the X5 a nearly $2,000 pistol. Now retail is $899, with a lower street supply once supply catches up with demand.

Also:
"Walther and CZ have metal competition guns now. We must compete!"

I wonder if Block, and M&P will will come out with tungsten grips too. That would be a natural for their competition pistols. I like my6 new tweaked up SIG, but frankly I like my old tweaked up M&P too.

[Tokarev]

I wonder if Block, and M&P will will come out with tungsten grips too.

I doubt it although they could probably add a similar tungsten powder to the plastic during the moulding process.

Here's our friend from SIG talking a bit about the new gun:

https://youtu.be/H-bg-pg6XhM



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[Zincwarrior]

I doubt it although they could probably add a similar tungsten powder to the plastic during the moulding process.

Here's our friend from SIG talking a bit about the new gun:

https://youtu.be/H-bg-pg6XhM



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Alternatively, they could switch to grip inserts with lead in them. ;)

[Tokarev]

Alternatively, they could switch to grip inserts with lead in them. ;)Smith could probably make some sort of metal wraparound grip panels.

Would the Glock backstrap made of a heavy metal add enough weight to be of real value?

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[Zincwarrior]

I don't know about Glock, but M&P's existing grip insert options are pretty large. The Pro's could come with a lead insert as standard, meeting requirements.

[Tokarev]

I don't know about Glock, but M&P's existing grip insert options are pretty large. The Pro's could come with a lead insert as standard, meeting requirements.Is there room inside the M&P frame to add weights?

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[Clusterfrack]

I’ve been bugging the folks at Sig for years about a metal gripframe. This is even better.

I’m not switching back to Sig from CZ, but will be recommending this gun for sure.

[Zincwarrior]

Is there room inside the M&P frame to add weights?

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I don't know, its pretty narrow without the adjustable grips (why I like it)

[ranger]

There is one site offering to sell just the grips when they come available. If you already have an X 5 (say you acquired yours a two weeks after this was first announced...) this should be a good substitute.

Can you share the site (or PM me) please? I swore I was done with the 320 (but I kept a bunch of mags, holster, etc) so...….

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/XH4OFZvK4lw

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[Sigfan26]

We just got one at the shop I work at... Holy crap! The thing is a tank. Awesome trigger out of the box (probably the best out of the box trigger I’ve felt on a striker fired pistol). I striped the slide off a couple times and held it. It makes you feel confused that polymer can be this heavy. Balance is phenomenal. The setup isn’t for me (I’m not a fan of adjustable sights, and I prefer RMR’s and traditional position BUIS’s). Now, if they did a a tungsten infused polymer M17 (style) Pistol with no optic cut , I’d snag one. If the folks liked the XFive, they’re going to love the Legion.


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[GJM]

We just got one at the shop I work at... Holy crap! The thing is a tank. Awesome trigger out of the box (probably the best out of the box trigger I’ve felt on a striker fired pistol). I striped the slide off a couple times and held it. It makes you feel confused that polymer can be this heavy. Balance is phenomenal. The setup isn’t for me (I’m not a fan of adjustable sights, and I prefer RMR’s and traditional position BUIS’s). Now, if they did a a tungsten infused polymer M17 (style) Pistol with no optic cut , I’d snag one. If the folks liked the XFive, they’re going to love the Legion.


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I have heard Sig plans to sell just the Tungsten infused grip module in the future. The modularity of the 320 is very attractive.

[amyacker]

We just got one at the shop I work at... Holy crap! The thing is a tank. Awesome trigger out of the box (probably the best out of the box trigger I’ve felt on a striker fired pistol). I striped the slide off a couple times and held it. It makes you feel confused that polymer can be this heavy. Balance is phenomenal. The setup isn’t for me (I’m not a fan of adjustable sights, and I prefer RMR’s and traditional position BUIS’s). Now, if they did a a tungsten infused polymer M17 (style) Pistol with no optic cut , I’d snag one. If the folks liked the XFive, they’re going to love the Legion (https://www.osagecountyguns.com/sig-sauer-p320-xcompact-9mm.html).


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Does 320 has the option of using kits to change the caliber??

[Texaspoff]

And the firearms world has almost gone full circle.


In the past manufactures move into pistols with polymer frames for weight savings.


Currently manufacturers now adding metal to polymer to add weight.


Future development, manufacturers will produce metal framed striker fire pistols.


Could of saved a lot of time and money and just built metal striker guns from the get go. :p



TXPO

[Zincwarrior]

I have heard Sig plans to sell just the Tungsten infused grip module in the future. The modularity of the 320 is very attractive.

I hope so. I have signed up for one. ;)

[Zincwarrior]

And the firearms world has almost gone full circle.


In the past manufactures move into pistols with polymer frames for weight savings.


Currently manufacturers now adding metal to polymer to add weight.


Future development, manufacturers will produce metal framed striker fire pistols.


Could of saved a lot of time and money and just built metal striker guns from the get go. :p



TXPO

The future is actually last January (and probably a major driver for this):
https://www.waltherarms.com/wp-content/uploads/Walther_STEEL-FRAME_Feature-Graphic_975x505_17DEC18-1.jpg

[Sigfan26]

Does 320 has the option of using kits to change the caliber??

Not sure if you can do much with an X5. The slide and barrel length are unique


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[HCM]

And the firearms world has almost gone full circle.


In the past manufactures move into pistols with polymer frames for weight savings.


Currently manufacturers now adding metal to polymer to add weight.


Future development, manufacturers will produce metal framed striker fire pistols.


Could of saved a lot of time and money and just built metal striker guns from the get go. :p



TXPO

Wasn’t the Hudson a metal framed striker ?

[GJM]

Arguably the best shooter in the world today, told me he found the steel frame Walther to be a poor design for a red dot. He would rather shoot the polymer Q5 as the Walther execution of a steel frame set up a harmonic that made the dot unpredictable. Shows you can’t just slap on a steel frame to a polymer design and expect it to work optimally.

I pick up my 320 Legion in a few hours and can’t wait to get it to the range. I am hoping that the combination of a Tungsten infused polymer frame maintains the recoil absorption properties of a polymer frame while adding the weight of a metal pistol. At 40+ ounces, the 320 Legion is a specialized competition choice that wouldn’t seem to offer much appeal for carry.

[gomerpyle]

Looking forward to your thoughts on the pistol:) I had a chance to handle it this past weekend (not shoot, of course) and was impressed by the balance of the pistol in the hand, as well as by the texturing and the trigger - if memory serves no stacking on the pretravel, a defined wall, a distinct roll, and a break. Very impressive - and all for $900. I was waiting for the 92X but the X5 legion really caught my attention.......

And i have to know - what shooter divulged his observations on the Q5 SF?

Just occurred to me some of the hottest new releases of recent years feature the letter X: 19X, 92X, X5




Arguably the best shooter in the world today, told me he found the steel frame Walther to be a poor design for a red dot. He would rather shoot the polymer Q5 as the Walther execution of a steel frame set up a harmonic that made the dot unpredictable. Shows you can’t just slap on a steel frame to a polymer design and expect it to work optimally.

I pick up my 320 Legion in a few hours and can’t wait to get it to the range. I am hoping that the combination of a Tungsten infused polymer frame maintains the recoil absorption properties of a polymer frame while adding the weight of a metal pistol. At 40+ ounces, the 320 Legion is a specialized competition choice that wouldn’t seem to offer much appeal for carry.

[Texaspoff]

Wasn’t the Hudson a metal framed striker ?

Yes it was, and a very innovative design overall. R&D and manufacturing was too costly, essentially killing it before it ever really took off.


It's just interesting to see manufactures trying to build heavy polymer framed striker guns. For ever and a day, loosing weight was all the rage, aluminum frames, then polymer, etc. Now everyone wants to add weight back in to help tame recoil and get better balance. May have reached the point of diminishing returns.

It is still easier to produce injection molded parts even adding metal, than it is machining them. Sig really took a giant leap forward with the Legion frames. It opens up a whole new world of adding different materials to polymers.


TXPO

[Slalom.45]

If they can add Tungsten to polymer, so can anybody else. I've been on the edge of purchasing a Gen 5 34FS. Think I'll give it a few months and see what happens...

[HCountyGuy]

It is still easier to produce injection molded parts even adding metal, than it is machining them. Sig really took a giant leap forward with the Legion frames. It opens up a whole new world of adding different materials to polymers.


TXPO

I just wonder how long before they take the practice and try to “re-invent” their classic line with such frames. Though perhaps some manner of new SP2022 with such a frame could prove nifty.

[GJM]

Just got mine. Very attractive overall package. Out of the box, the trigger is much improved over a legacy X5, and only about 8 ounces heavier than an X5 with a Gray Guns Competition X5 trigger. The Delta Point Pro mounts with the Leupold screws without any adapter plate.

40000

Weight with optic and magazine but OEM magwell removed.

40001

[Zincwarrior]

Yes it was, and a very innovative design overall. R&D and manufacturing was too costly, essentially killing it before it ever really took off.


It's just interesting to see manufactures trying to build heavy polymer framed striker guns. For ever and a day, loosing weight was all the rage, aluminum frames, then polymer, etc. Now everyone wants to add weight back in to help tame recoil and get better balance. May have reached the point of diminishing returns.

It is still easier to produce injection molded parts even adding metal, than it is machining them. Sig really took a giant leap forward with the Legion frames. It opens up a whole new world of adding different materials to polymers.


TXPO

One should note, this is really for a very specific audience. Its designed to fall just on the edge of legal for certain classes in USPSA / IDPA.
If you were SWAT, an LEO or some sort of low speed high drag :rolleyes: operator the plastic versions would be more appropriate due to the weight.


If they can add Tungsten to polymer, so can anybody else. I've been on the edge of purchasing a Gen 5 34FS. Think I'll give it a few months and see what happens...
Indeed. There is no reason S&W and Glock can't come out with a "super pro" version of their competition pistols, or Springfield for that matter.

[Magsz]

I handled but did not shoot one of these yesterday.

BIZARRE. Seriously bizarre feeling.

I dont mean that in a bad way at all, im just not used to such a heavy "plastic" pistol. The polymer grip frame felt...substantial for a change. The overall balance of the gun despite being nearly twice the weight of my preferred Glocks was extremely well done. Not nose heavy or grip heavy at all. The balance seemed to be right underneath the trigger guard undercut which will lend itself to a fast transitioning gun.

My ONLY concern and I hope that this is completely unfounded is that the tungsten infusion may result in brittle frames. I really hope im totally off base there but only time will tell.

Trigger was good although I felt like the shoe itself felt really cheap since its such a thin stamping of metal. If it shoots and doesnt pinch me then this feeling is just that, a feeling and completely worthless.

Sig is absolutely crushing it with product releases as of late as Phil Strader is NOT fucking around when it comes to giving the public what they want. I hope they're making money hand over fist and taking massive market share away from Glock.

[Bart Carter]

Arguably the best shooter in the world today, told me he found the steel frame Walther to be a poor design for a red dot. He would rather shoot the polymer Q5 as the Walther execution of a steel frame set up a harmonic that made the dot unpredictable. Shows you can’t just slap on a steel frame to a polymer design and expect it to work optimally...

Well, I am no where near arguably the best shooter in the world, but my experience is opposite. I have red dots on 4" direct milled, 5" direct milled and 5" Q5 poly with the adapter plate. I made the mistake of being talked into shooting the steel frame with a red dot at a match a couple of weeks ago. There was no comparison for me. The steel frame was so much more controllable. It fit my hand better than any pistol I have ever held. So I found one NIB on the internet.

Shooting with the open sights was great. This weekend I'll be shooting with the red dot. Hope my cheap ol' Vortex Viper dot won't be unpredictable. :p

[GJM]

Well, I am no where near arguably the best shooter in the world, but my experience is opposite. I have red dots on 4" direct milled, 5" direct milled and 5" Q5 poly with the adapter plate. I made the mistake of being talked into shooting the steel frame with a red dot at a match a couple of weeks ago. There was no comparison for me. The steel frame was so much more controllable. It fit my hand better than any pistol I have ever held. So I found one NIB on the internet.

Shooting with the open sights was great. This weekend I'll be shooting with the red dot. Hope my cheap ol' Vortex Viper dot won't be unpredictable. :p

You should ask him yourself, since he is your home town hero! :D

[Bart Carter]

Maybe my stiff (well aged :D) skeletal frame has different harmonics. :p

[GJM]

I shot about 300 rounds through the new Legion this afternoon. First magazine, I had a stoppage or two with PMC 115 ball, which is low power factor ammo. None with American Eagle 115 ball, and then the PMC ran as the pistol got some rounds through it.

It was easy to zero the DP Pro, took it off a P10F, and it was within an inch at 25 yards. A few clicks on the prototype ruggedized Pro, and I was zeroed. This pistol is a delight to shoot. When I went back to a regular X5, it felt flighty by comparison. The regular X5 has a GGI competition trigger, and while it is a smidge lighter, I thought the stock Legion trigger was GTG.

I think the new Legion will be the bomb for high round count shooters. The combination of its weight and the way the X frame beaver tail spreads recoil over the web of your hand, makes this pistol extremely comfortable to shoot. The X grip is also very easy to get a good grip with, as I referenced with how easy the X Compact is to draw from appendix concealment. The polymer and Tungsten combination would seem to offer the best of a polymer and metal gun. And, as a simple striker design, it doesn’t seem maintenance intensive like the metal pistols.

My wife shot it and liked it enough, we got her one. This was a surprise as she thought she might prefer the lighter weight of the regular X5 she has been shooting lately. She has the Dremel out working on the magwell now, so we will see if the Tungsten makes that work any harder.

If the pistols run and hold up, I predict Sig will sell crates of them to competitive shooters.

[GJM]

She did a great job on the mag well:

40014

[cornstalker]

I shot about 300 rounds through the new Legion this afternoon. First magazine, I had a stoppage or two with PMC 115 ball, which is low power factor ammo. None with American Eagle 115 ball, and then the PMC ran as the pistol got some rounds through it.

It was easy to zero the DP Pro, took it off a P10F, and it was within an inch at 25 yards. A few clicks on the prototype ruggedized Pro, and I was zeroed. This pistol is a delight to shoot. When I went back to a regular X5, it felt flighty by comparison. The regular X5 has a GGI competition trigger, and while it is a smidge lighter, I thought the stock Legion trigger was GTG.

I think the new Legion will be the bomb for high round count shooters. The combination of its weight and the way the X frame beaver tail spreads recoil over the web of your hand, makes this pistol extremely comfortable to shoot. The X grip is also very easy to get a good grip with, as I referenced with how easy the X Compact is to draw from appendix concealment. The polymer and Tungsten combination would seem to offer the best of a polymer and metal gun. And, as a simple striker design, it doesn’t seem maintenance intensive like the metal pistols.

My wife shot it and liked it enough, we got her one. This was a surprise as she thought she might prefer the lighter weight of the regular X5 she has been shooting lately. She has the Dremel out working on the magwell now, so we will see if the Tungsten makes that work any harder.

If the pistols run and hold up, I predict Sig will sell crates of them to competitive shooters.

That looks like an amazing gun. Gonna have to put together a few pennies and get one soon. What are you doing for a holster?

[John Hearne]

In the past manufactures move into pistols with polymer frames for weight savings.


I'm pretty sure that the appeal of polymer frames was the reduction in manufacturing costs rather than the weight savings.

[John Hearne]

FWIW, I carried a 5" stainless steel P220 for years and years. The weight was annoying at times but when the gun came out of the holster, that weight was forgotten.

I've been carrying an X-Five as a duty gun for almost a year. I'd love to get my hands on the Legion version and see how it shoots. I suspect that the weight will be worth carrying around if you actually plan on shooting.

[Zincwarrior]

FWIW, I carried a 5" stainless steel P220 for years and years. The weight was annoying at times but when the gun came out of the holster, that weight was forgotten.

I've been carrying an X-Five as a duty gun for almost a year. I'd love to get my hands on the Legion version and see how it shoots. I suspect that the weight will be worth carrying around if you actually plan on shooting.

Well the XFive itself is pretty good. With a base plate and grey guns metal spring guide its what 36 ounces? Thats substantially more than a Beretta M9. You can wait for the new frames to come out and/or get a tungsten guide rod.
https://shop.springerprecision.com/Springer-Precision-Sig-P320-X5-Tungsten-Guide-Rod-1911-Springs-SP0247.htm

[GJM]

That looks like an amazing gun. Gonna have to put together a few pennies and get one soon. What are you doing for a holster?

Same X5 holsters work for the Legion. Right now, my wife and I are using a CompTac International on a BOSS hangar.


Well the XFive itself is pretty good. With a base plate and grey guns metal spring guide its what 36 ounces? Thats substantially more than a Beretta M9. You can wait for the new frames to come out and/or get a tungsten guide rod.
https://shop.springerprecision.com/Springer-Precision-Sig-P320-X5-Tungsten-Guide-Rod-1911-Springs-SP0247.htm

My wife spent today evaluating the weight difference between a regular X5 with a Tungsten guide rod and the Legion. Her regular X5 is mid 30’s and her Legion is 44.2 ounces. She was worried that she wouldn’t like the extra weight of the Legion, but after a good session, she pronounced the Legion GTG, and said she prefers the extra weight.

[GJM]

Recently, a friend broke the takedown lever on a 320 Legion, at about 20,000 rounds. It was difficult to remove. This morning, my wife realized she also broke the takedown lever on her main practice 320 Legion. Took effort to remove it. Just got a text from the same friend who broke another takedown lever today. Seems like a failure point in the 320 Legion. Not sure if the takedown lever is common to “regular” 320 pistols.

[psalms144.1]

Take down levers, safety levers, FCU fiddly bits, strikers, triggers, trigger bars - all made MIM, all made overseas, and assembled in NH. There have been LOTS of control failures on M17/M18s since they rolled out - and I don't expect that will change, since Sig is selling them to DOD for $185 a pop, with night sights and magazines...

What's my point? The market for 320s, IMHO, is for a high end shop to start making tool steel key parts - takedowns, safeties, triggers, etc; in addition to the Gucci grip modules. Folks who really like the platform (and having shot it, I don't begrudge folks who do) would, I don't doubt, pay a premium for parts of more well-known provenance than the factory parts.

[GJM]

Before I forget, my above mentioned friend just bought a new 320 Legion and was able to direct mount an SRO without a plate, as it came with additional RMR footprint holes drilled by the factory.

[Sauer Koch]

I haven’t been following the 320 Legion lately...aside from the issue above, how are the doing in terms of performance & reliability?

[GJM]

I haven’t been following the 320 Legion lately...aside from the issue above, how are the doing in terms of performance & reliability?

Good and good.

[John Hearne]

I'd have to stop and think hard to consider how many takedown levers I broke in my P220s. The problem got worse when I started using the stainless frames. I later found out that the stainless frame flexed (or didn't flex) differently than aluminum. This meant that instead of dying at 20,000 rounds, I broke takedown levers as low as 8,000 rounds. I wonder if Sig has gone and one the same thing with the addition of the tungsten to the Legion frame.


We've had a bunch of on-line training to make up for in-person classes cancelled by the pandemic. One of the sections was taught by our FLETC range staff. They report that they've now seen over a million rounds through P320 of various agencies with 2,500 rounds per student being average. At least in the early part of its life span, they report that the P320's are holding up well and they're impressed with the accuracy compared to other offerings.

[Joshmill]

Before I forget, my above mentioned friend just bought a new 320 Legion and was able to direct mount an SRO without a plate, as it came with additional RMR footprint holes drilled by the factory.

I literally had that happen 45 minutes ago. Was going to test fit my Springer plate, RDS doesn't arrive until Monday. RMR holes are right there. It was a nice surprise.

[spinmove_]

I literally had that happen 45 minutes ago. Was going to test fit my Springer plate, RDS doesn't arrive until Monday. RMR holes are right there. It was a nice surprise.

While that’s nice on a Legion, it sucks that the xcompact/xcarry lack a rear dovetail to co-witness irons. Which means the C&H plate with the rear dovetail will still be needed.

[JSGlock34]

Before I forget, my above mentioned friend just bought a new 320 Legion and was able to direct mount an SRO without a plate, as it came with additional RMR footprint holes drilled by the factory.

So, is this really an improvement? I'm usually a fan of more options for the user, but I dislike compromises that end up doing nothing particularly well and everything equally poorly. Interface plates are an additional failure point and direct mount should be the preferred option. But creating a large universal pocket that a variety of optics can mount to but simply float inside does nothing to reduce the stress on the optic. Only the screws are locking the optics in place - there aren't even the machined boss lugs. All the recoil stress is on the mounting screws. I'd prefer a pocket that locks in the optic body and prevents rearward movement - but obviously that's not a universal solution. No free lunch.

[GJM]

So, is this really an improvement? I'm usually a fan of more options for the user, but I dislike compromises that end up doing nothing particularly well and everything equally poorly. Interface plates are an additional failure point and direct mount should be the preferred option. But creating a large universal pocket that a variety of optics can mount to but simply float inside does nothing to reduce the stress on the optic. Only the screws are locking the optics in place - there aren't even the machined boss lugs. All the recoil stress is on the mounting screws. I'd prefer a pocket that locks in the optic body and prevents rearward movement - but obviously that's not a universal solution. No free lunch.

Here is a picture of it. Everyone of these options is a compromise — depends upon whether your adapter plate fails, your optic fails, or the optic screws fail.

53194

[pastaslinger]

Here is a picture of it. Everyone of these options is a compromise — depends upon whether your adapter plate fails, your optic fails, or the optic screws fail.


Is there a new model number or something? I was holding off from liking the legion because I wanted an RMR footprint and disliked the idea of adapter plates. This addresses both of these.

[GJM]

Is there a new model number or something? I was holding off from liking the legion because I wanted an RMR footprint and disliked the idea of adapter plates. This addresses both of these.

Don’t believe it is a new model, my friend bought his RMR ready Legion last week.

[shakazulu12]

Someone over on the Enos forums called Sig and was told it started with production at the end of February. I believe they mentioned another SKU was going to get the change as well.

[AMC]

Someone over on the Enos forums called Sig and was told it started with production at the end of February. I believe they mentioned another SKU was going to get the change as well.

The change to accomodate an RMR footprint optic started on the LE Pro line....as HCM I think noted, largely to comply with the CBP requirements....but also because a ton of other LE agencies were asking for it. They're also adopting the Pro style optic cut (that maintains a dovetailed rear sight) across the product line going forward, it seems. Doesn't change the issue for folks with older guns, but should simplify things from here on out.

[BobRockefeller]

Here is a picture of it. Everyone of these options is a compromise — depends upon whether your adapter plate fails, your optic fails, or the optic screws fail.


If the front and rear of the optic seat firmly against the front and back of the slot, as does the DeltaPoint Pro, the recoil forces won't have to be carried solely by the screws. Is that the case here? It looks, from the picture as if it might be.

[Joshmill]

While that’s nice on a Legion, it sucks that the xcompact/xcarry lack a rear dovetail to co-witness irons. Which means the C&H plate with the rear dovetail will still be needed.

We ordered 5 Legions at the same time. Mine has the RMR holes, my buddy's doesn't. My sn is 216xxx and his is 206xxx. Not sure about the other 3. I'll see what I can find out.

[spinmove_]

So, just out of curiosity, since it appears that the P320 is kind of a “disposable” platform, how much do the higher wear parts cost to replace? Things like the take-down lever, striker, recoil spring assembly, and extractor. Any other high wear parts? What is SIG’s fix for a FUBAR’d ejector since that’s built into the FCU?

[claymore504]

So, just out of curiosity, since it appears that the P320 is kind of a “disposable” platform, how much do the higher wear parts cost to replace? Things like the take-down lever, striker, recoil spring assembly, and extractor. Any other high wear parts? What is SIG’s fix for a FUBAR’d ejector since that’s built into the FCU?

Here this will give you an idea of what parts cost:

https://www.midwestgunworks.com/sig-sauer-p320/parts.html

[spinmove_]

Apart from RSAs, the parts cost seems average. Those complete RSAs seem pretty expensive for what they are though. The pistols themselves are also on par with other offerings in their respective classes. I’m not seeing the cost benefit to this platform vs. other platforms that aren’t quite as “disposable”.

[Eyesquared]

Apart from RSAs, the parts cost seems average. Those complete RSAs seem pretty expensive for what they are though. The pistols themselves are also on par with other offerings in their respective classes. I’m not seeing the cost benefit to this platform vs. other platforms that aren’t quite as “disposable”.

I guess I don't know what guns you think are less disposable. If you shoot just about any pistol to a high round count you'll have to replace a number of small parts and springs along the way. The cost of replacing small parts is laughably negligible when you consider the cost of ammo to even have that problem in the first place. So far as I am concerned my Glocks and my P320 are all disposable. If I had opted to buy a Shadow 2 or a Walther Q5 SF for USPSA, I would have considered those disposable as well.

Edit: from a cost perspective, competing with the P320 X5 Legion is $200-500 cheaper than a Shadow 2 optic ready, Stock 2 optic ready, or a Walther Q5 SF. SIG's carry gun pricing is mediocre which is one reason I've been reluctant to stop carrying a Glock despite practicing more with the P320. If I was starting from a blank slate I probably would have just committed to all P320s but I already owned multiple Glocks.

[GJM]

The expensive part of these pistols isn’t their initial cost, it is how fast they shoot up all your ammo!

[Joshmill]

We ordered 5 Legions at the same time. Mine has the RMR holes, my buddy's doesn't. My sn is 216xxx and his is 206xxx. Not sure about the other 3. I'll see what I can find out.

Got my Holosun 507c v2 today. It kind of floated in the pocket not touching the front or the back. None of the supplied screws fit in the RMR holes. The holes are D&T to a smaller size. I just installed with the Springer plate for now.

[spinmove_]

I guess I don't know what guns you think are less disposable. If you shoot just about any pistol to a high round count you'll have to replace a number of small parts and springs along the way. The cost of replacing small parts is laughably negligible when you consider the cost of ammo to even have that problem in the first place. So far as I am concerned my Glocks and my P320 are all disposable. If I had opted to buy a Shadow 2 or a Walther Q5 SF for USPSA, I would have considered those disposable as well.

Edit: from a cost perspective, competing with the P320 X5 Legion is $200-500 cheaper than a Shadow 2 optic ready, Stock 2 optic ready, or a Walther Q5 SF. SIG's carry gun pricing is mediocre which is one reason I've been reluctant to stop carrying a Glock despite practicing more with the P320. If I was starting from a blank slate I probably would have just committed to all P320s but I already owned multiple Glocks.

Yeah I suppose from that perspective you're right. All in all, I guess that overall TCO balances out in the end one way or the other if you're competing with either a P320 or a Shadow 2.


The expensive part of these pistols isn’t their initial cost, it is how fast they shoot up all your ammo!

Yeah, for some reason I keep forgetting about that part. The damn ammo cost really is far and away the biggest bill regardless of how you slice it. It's a big factor in keeping me in Production.

[ST911]

As durable goods go, most guns are incredibly cheap. Especially when broken down to their lifecycle cost.

[Archer1440]

The expensive part of these pistols isn’t their initial cost, it is how fast they shoot up all your ammo!

Excellent point. Pistols are a little like printers... you are paying a lot more for the supplies over the long run. I shoot a SIG pistol’s worth of ammo every two months, and I reload.

I shoot a Colt 6920’s worth of 5.56 every 4-6 months as well, and I don’t reload that.

It all adds up.

[DDTSGM]

Boy, I hope I didn't make a mistake.

I've never held a P320 Legion X5, much less pulled the trigger on one - can't find them in stock locally and none of the ranges in the area have one they rent. So, WTF, the Ben Stoeger Pro Shop had one in stock, and I guess it's on the way since they took my money. Bought the Comp-Tac Holster and BOSS hanger kit as well.

I load and prefer 124gr JHP's (I have a little over 5,000 Precision Delta's in that weight on hand) does anyone have a pet load for the Legion with those rounds?

Currently I'm loading 4.3 Win 244, 1.145-1.15 OAL with CCI 500's. Shoots nice out of the 19X and G43 (for GSSF shoots). I just bought 8 pounds so I'm going to stay in tha lane for now.

[Eyesquared]

Bit of an update:

My P320 X5 Legion passed the 6k rounds mark recently. To date, I have had zero malfunctions shooting a variety of factory brass case ammo (Federal American Eagle, Syntech, GECO, S&B, Speer Lawman, Blazer Brass), using the 12# recoil spring. My cleaning schedule consists of field stripping the gun and wiping off the slide rails, barrel, etc every 750-1000 rounds. I lubricate key areas every 500-1000 rounds. When the crud starts to noticeably affect how the trigger feels, I pull the FCU out and wipe it off (that works out to every 1000-2000 rounds). Knock on wood but I am satisfied with the reliability thus far.

Apart from attaching the SRO for carry optics, I filled the magwell attachment points with epoxy and beveled the inside with a dremel. I also added silicon carbide grit to the grip for texture.

[CanineCombatives]

The magwell and grip are the biggest handicaps to the pistol out of the box, lots of guys are sculpting the grip and doing the carbide overlay which is a big improvement but once you remove the add on mag funnel to be legal there isnt a whole lot you can do with a dremel to make it more forgiving.
I see wilson is offering tungsten inserts for their grip module which may be an alternative to consider, the wilson module has a much more forgiving magwell as it comes and more can be done to open it up with just some light work on the sides.

[Eyesquared]

My personal opinion is that once the magwell attachment points are filled in, the magwell is fine. Dremeling out the back and rounding the opening in the front helps. No experience with the Wilson grip but I like the feel and balance of the gun too much to change now especially as I rarely have reload related issues that could be attributed to this magwell, and I rarely do more than 1 reload per stage in CO. The magwell is comparable to what everyone else is using with the Shadow 2 or Stock 2 and it's more forgiving than any of my Glocks.
58001

[GJM]

The magwell and grip are the biggest handicaps to the pistol out of the box, lots of guys are sculpting the grip and doing the carbide overlay which is a big improvement but once you remove the add on mag funnel to be legal there isnt a whole lot you can do with a dremel to make it more forgiving.
I see wilson is offering tungsten inserts for their grip module which may be an alternative to consider, the wilson module has a much more forgiving magwell as it comes and more can be done to open it up with just some light work on the sides.

My wife has done a half dozen Legion magwells, and they came out great.

58003

[Eyesquared]

My wife has done a half dozen Legion magwells, and they came out great.

58003

Her dremel work is infinitely cleaner than mine but I gotta say it really helps to fill those magwell voids with epoxy first. For me the corner on the front edge of the magazine used to get caught up in the front hole and the cartridge rim would get caught up on the rear hole. With those filled in and the dremel applied like that the magwell is arguably just as good as most 2011 magwells. Then again magwells don't matter much in this sport (IMO), but it doesn't take much time to do the epoxy.

I suppose the legality within the rules might be debatable, as I'm sure some people will argue about whether epoxy qualifies as a "grip plug". I'm like 99% sure Max Michel has a similar mod done to his gun, so I feel comfortable doing it as someone who primarily shoots club matches and majors hosted at my club.

[CanineCombatives]

Those look great

[GJM]

Between Sig magazines being metal and tapered, and the opening up of the magwell possible, the Legion is a serious reloading platform.

[GJM]

My friend, who shoots the Legion in CO, has experienced a serious degradation in accuracy with his practice Legion right at 70,000 rounds. I told him it doesn’t owe him anything at that round count.

This is his match gun at 15 yards.

60248

This is his practice gun at 15 yards. Both benched and same ammo.

60249

[DpdG]

What’s a normal lifespan for a 9mm barrel? I’ve seen P226 .40 barrels show degraded accuracy (pattern instead of group and key-holing) around 25-30k, and subsequently returned to service with a simple replacement barrel.

[GJM]

What’s a normal lifespan for a 9mm barrel? I’ve seen P226 .40 barrels show degraded accuracy (pattern instead of group and key-holing) around 25-30k, and subsequently returned to service with a simple replacement barrel.

We don’t think it is the barrel, because he also has a BarSto fitted by the Sig Armorer, and it is doing the same thing as the OEM barrel. Not the optic or recoil spring either.

[spinmove_]

My friend, who shoots the Legion in CO, has experienced a serious degradation in accuracy with his practice Legion right at 70,000 rounds. I told him it doesn’t owe him anything at that round count.

This is his match gun at 15 yards.

60248

This is his practice gun at 15 yards. Both benched and same ammo.

60249

At 70K rounds I think I could excuse that barrel for doing a good job and simply buy that gun a new one and drive on.

[JSGlock34]

Chuck everything but the FCU?

[DpdG]

Perhaps swap parts with his comp gun to try to isolate the issue? I suppose the slide catch pivot pin (the barrel cams off this) could be worn enough to cause inconsistent lock up, but more likely than not the issue is in the slide.

[HCM]

My friend, who shoots the Legion in CO, has experienced a serious degradation in accuracy with his practice Legion right at 70,000 rounds. I told him it doesn’t owe him anything at that round count.

This is his match gun at 15 yards.

60248

This is his practice gun at 15 yards. Both benched and same ammo.

60249

At 70k it's time for a new pistol or at least a new FCU. The official service life of an M17/18 is 35,000 rounds and your friend is at double that.

[spinmove_]

At 70k it's time for a new pistol or at least a new FCU. The official service life of an M17/18 is 35,000 rounds and your friend is at double that.

Wait...that’s it? 35,000 round service is it? That’s like .40S&W service life. If that’s only a P320 9mm I’d hate to see what the .40S&W variants have for a service life.

[98z28]

Wasn't one of the initial concerns about the 320 design a potential decrease in accuracy over time? I am no engineer, so I wouldn't know know what to look for to anticipate that, but I recall reading it when the 320 first launched and thinking that I probably wouldn't approach the round counts where it would be a problem.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

[Archer1440]

I was an “early adopter” of the X-Five P320, my first one has the silver barrel, and I never heard anyone predict issues. It has a tight lock-up (“pre-tensioned”) and still shoots ragged holes benched at 25 meters.

I wail say, though, that there is great variability in the P320 FCU’s from one unit to another in terms of trigger action. Both my X-fives have GG kits in them and are still spongy compared to, say, my out of the box HK VP9’s, all five of which are within 3 ounces in trigger pull and super-crisp by comparison.

The long slide VP9 Optics Ready blows the X-Five out of the water for trigger and a few other factors, but the X-Five does have better magwell solutions out of the box and is a more “competition ready” platform in general.

[GJM]

The 320 Legion is far and away, the most used pistol in USPSA Carry Optics. I see more Legions than everything else combined.

[HCM]

Wasn't one of the initial concerns about the 320 design a potential decrease in accuracy over time? I am no engineer, so I wouldn't know know what to look for to anticipate that, but I recall reading it when the 320 first launched and thinking that I probably wouldn't approach the round counts where it would be a problem.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

That was my understanding. I recall someone, maybe Steve Fisher taking about that several years ago.

My agency deadlines guns at 10k so it’s not really a concern for us.

[GJM]

My friend believes the issue is barrel to slide lockup.

[HCM]

Wait...that’s it? 35,000 round service is it? That’s like .40S&W service life. If that’s only a P320 9mm I’d hate to see what the .40S&W variants have for a service life.

My impression of the 320, at least the lower half is that is is a disposable pistol.

[Eyesquared]

My friend believes the issue is barrel to slide lockup.

I'm curious to see if the groups tighten up if he swaps his match gun's slide + barrel onto the practice gun's FCU and grip.

[GJM]

I'm curious to see if the groups tighten up if he swaps his match gun's slide + barrel onto the practice gun's FCU and grip.

He is going to try an X5 slide with the Legion barrel. If not that, he is going to focus on FCU wear.

[AJLooch]

We don’t think it is the barrel, because he also has a BarSto fitted by the Sig Armorer, and it is doing the same thing as the OEM barrel. Not the optic or recoil spring either.

That is just a SIG doing what SIG does. After I heard a response from a higher up SIG executive in regards to MPX malfunctions and firearm longevity I will never run any SIG for a competition gun.

[Archer1440]

He is going to try an X5 slide with the Legion barrel. If not that, he is going to focus on FCU wear.

I’m not sure if that will work or not. There have been running changes to the barrel/slide interface on the X-Fives and older slides were precisely fitted to the barrels. Later runs may have more of a “drop in” fit. So it may depend upon when the slide was made.

Let us know if it works out.

[GJM]

Over the course of fiddling around, he had three different optics, and three different barrel in (two OEM and one BarSto). So next step today was to figure out whether the issue was FCU or slide. He dropped an X5 slide and OEM barrel on the Legion lower and FCU from the problem pistol and got this at 15 yards, suggesting the problem is with the Legion slide.

60319

I suggested that he examine the slide closely to see if he could see a crack or other problem.

[GJM]

By reputation, and through my personal experience, the original 320 X5 pistols were very accurate (precise). I am picking up chatter front from a number of sources that the Legion uppers do not shoot nearly as well. Max Michel, for example, uses a 320 X5 upper. A friend of mine who is a high round count 320 Legion shooter recently bought 4 320 X5 slides to replace his Legion uppers because their accuracy was poor. Barrel swaps don’t fix the issue, it relates to a change in the Legion slide.

[GJM]

My wife is slowly moving to all X5 slides, in place of Legion slides, for improved precision. She just put together a new X5 slide based upper yesterday, did a rough zero with her laser thingee, and these are her first five shots at 15 yards.

68567

[GJM]

My wife has settled on an X5 upper and Romeo 3 Max or XL as her preferred upper combo, although she keeps a SRO for “rainy days and timmie pursuits.”

She really likes how the small size X5 lower feels in her hands, but prefers the weight of the Legion lower for USPSA. Recent experiments have been getting a tungsten grip weight to try to heavy up her X5 small lower, and most recently she took a Dremel to a medium Legion tungsten lower to try to reshape it to the equivalent of a small, since the small tungsten lowers are still unobtanium. That let to a protracted session last night, and my wife got to the range today with the smaller tungsten lower.

She has been struggling with splits under .20, which I have believe relates to her hand position on the too large Legion lower. Right off, she threw down some .14 splits, so there is joy in our household tonight. I know when her doubles drill results in .25+ splits we have a certain mood, better yet is .20-.25, and who knows what might happen now. :p

[JCN]

My wife is slowly moving to all X5 slides, in place of Legion slides, for improved precision. She just put together a new X5 slide based upper yesterday, did a rough zero with her laser thingee, and these are her first five shots at 15 yards.

68567

Glad she likes the laser thingy!

Here is her next purchase.

https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/quick-patch-tape-gun

[amyacker]

Ordered today, doesnt show an eta but I'm sure it'll be soon, gonna stick a romeo (https://osagecountyguns.com/sig-sauer-romeo5-sor52001.html) 1 pro on it, no eta on that yet either:)

Spent a ton of money on a metal grip, dovetail relocation, special holster, magazine mods, etc, etc, etc when I could have just bought or built a P320 variant and gotten most of what I wanted without the wait times and for less money.

[GJM]

Glad she likes the laser thingy!

Here is her next purchase.

https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/quick-patch-tape-gun

The Wheeler laser has paid for itself over and over. That laser, a battery tester and Fix it Sticks are must have accessories for a red sit shooter.

[JCN]

The Wheeler laser has paid for itself over and over. That laser, a battery tester and Fix it Sticks are must have accessories for a red sit shooter.

So glad you're liking it!

[JCS]

The Wheeler laser has paid for itself over and over. That laser, a battery tester and Fix it Sticks are must have accessories for a red sit shooter.

Could you expand on the battery tester and fix it stick?

[md8232]

Could you expand on the battery tester and fix it stick?

https://store.fixitsticks.com/collections/all-shooting

You can choose the kit that meets your needs.

[JCS]

Bit of an update:

My P320 X5 Legion passed the 6k rounds mark recently. To date, I have had zero malfunctions shooting a variety of factory brass case ammo (Federal American Eagle, Syntech, GECO, S&B, Speer Lawman, Blazer Brass), using the 12# recoil spring. My cleaning schedule consists of field stripping the gun and wiping off the slide rails, barrel, etc every 750-1000 rounds. I lubricate key areas every 500-1000 rounds. When the crud starts to noticeably affect how the trigger feels, I pull the FCU out and wipe it off (that works out to every 1000-2000 rounds). Knock on wood but I am satisfied with the reliability thus far.

Apart from attaching the SRO for carry optics, I filled the magwell attachment points with epoxy and beveled the inside with a dremel. I also added silicon carbide grit to the grip for texture.

How did you do the silicone carbide on the grip?

[Eyesquared]

How did you do the silicone carbide on the grip?

What I did was clean the grip really thoroughly and degrease with alcohol. Then I masked off all the stuff I didn't want texture on. I used Bob Smith 30 minute epoxy, and brushed it on with a sponge brush. Then just spoon on the silicon carbide and make sure you don't leave any bald spots. Make sure to take off the masking tape before the epoxy fully sets or it'll be a pain in the ass later. Alma Cole has a YouTube video on this that is more detailed. If I were to do it again I'd make sure to rough up the smooth surfaces on the grip with sandpaper first, because over time I've had a couple small (0.25"x0.25") spots flake off, but the texture still does its job so I'm not going to redo it. I didn't bother reducing the grip width or anything to account for the extra thickness because the Bob Smith epoxy goes on fairly thin anyways and I didn't want to take off too much of the fancy tungsten infused polymer.

https://youtu.be/DL3ExFQNHkM

[Eyesquared]

I forgot I never posted any update on the reliability of the gun. I've been shooting the X5 Legion since November 2019 and thus far I have about 11k rounds through it. Since I made that other post about my cleaning regimen, I totally fell off of it. I don't think I've even cleaned my gun in the last 3k or so rounds. I have only 6 malfunctions total, although that number isn't exactly fair as many of them were related to my own questionable reloading. 1st malfunction was a failure to go into battery, due to a weakened recoil spring (this was at 7k rounds on the original 12lb spring). I later had 2 light strikes with my reloads, which I had culled from my match ammo to use for practice because the primers looked a little high. I had two more failures to go into battery due to not lubing the gun for about a thousand rounds and shooting a 2 day class. I then had 1 failure to chamber with ammo that was marginal in my case gauge but I put in the practice bin anyways. If you remove the malfunctions I caused with my ammo, that's a MRBS of 3.6k. The gun would have been even more reliable if I actually took care of it but it runs well enough that I get lazy.

[JCS]

What I did was clean the grip really thoroughly and degrease with alcohol. Then I masked off all the stuff I didn't want texture on. I used Bob Smith 30 minute epoxy, and brushed it on with a sponge brush. Then just spoon on the silicon carbide and make sure you don't leave any bald spots. Make sure to take off the masking tape before the epoxy fully sets or it'll be a pain in the ass later. Alma Cole has a YouTube video on this that is more detailed. If I were to do it again I'd make sure to rough up the smooth surfaces on the grip with sandpaper first, because over time I've had a couple small (0.25"x0.25") spots flake off, but the texture still does its job so I'm not going to redo it. I didn't bother reducing the grip width or anything to account for the extra thickness because the Bob Smith epoxy goes on fairly thin anyways and I didn't want to take off too much of the fancy tungsten infused polymer.

https://youtu.be/DL3ExFQNHkM

Did you sand off the textured areas or just clean it and apply the glue?

[Eyesquared]

Did you sand off the textured areas or just clean it and apply the glue?

Just cleaned and applied glue.

[JCS]

Anyone have any recommendations on triggers?

Is it gray guns over everything else?

The apex seems tempting. I don’t care about the weight as much as wanting to decrease the reset

[GJM]

Anyone have any recommendations on triggers?

Is it gray guns over everything else?

The apex seems tempting. I don’t care about the weight as much as wanting to decrease the reset

Combination of new GGI kit plus Armory Craft trigger is the current hotness.

[Archer1440]

Combination of new GGI kit plus Armory Craft trigger is the current hotness.

I put GG kits into my pair of X-Fives about three years ago- what, if any, difference is there with the “new” kit? Hopefully less mushy?

[jbrimlow]

I put GG kits into my pair of X-Fives about three years ago- what, if any, difference is there with the “new” kit? Hopefully less mushy?

Well, the "new" kit comes with two different spring sets, in addition to their sear. It also has an overtravel-adjustable trigger. But the ArmoryCraft trigger is better because it has screws to remove pretravel AND overtravel, not just overtravel.

[JCS]

Combination of new GGI kit plus Armory Craft trigger is the current hotness.
Have you tried this? I read over on enos that Bruce Gray said it’s not drop safe but others disagreed.


Well, the "new" kit comes with two different spring sets, in addition to their sear. It also has an overtravel-adjustable trigger. But the ArmoryCraft trigger is better because it has screws to remove pretravel AND overtravel, not just overtravel.

Are the sets different weights? Any reliability issues with one or the other?

I ordered the GG trigger for my legion. We will see how it goes. I watched a couple videos on the install. It looks doable.

[GJM]

Have you tried this? I read over on enos that Bruce Gray said it’s not drop safe but others disagreed.



Are the sets different weights? Any reliability issues with one or the other?

I ordered the GG trigger for my legion. We will see how it goes. I watched a couple videos on the install. It looks doable.

My wife has it in about a half dozen Legions, but I only have one Legion Max with an OEM trigger. I have no insight into whether the Armory/GGI combo is drop safe.

[JCS]

My wife has it in about a half dozen Legions, but I only have one Legion Max with an OEM trigger. I have no insight into whether the Armory/GGI combo is drop safe.

I’d say thats a pretty good testament to the trigger! Which spring set does she use?

[Archer1440]

My wife has it in about a half dozen Legions, but I only have one Legion Max with an OEM trigger. I have no insight into whether the Armory/GGI combo is drop safe.

If you don’t use the pretravel, it’s drop safe. If you do use too much of the pretravel, you disable the striker drop safety. Given the variables I’ve personally seen in 320 series FCU’s I would test each specific build if I were concerned about this potential issue (rather than just rely on a global setting for a group of pistols in a rotation).

[GJM]

If you don’t use the overtravel, it’s drop safe. If you do use too much of the overtravel, you disable the striker drop safety. Given the variables I’ve personally seen in 320 series FCU’s I would test each specific build if I were concerned about this potential issue (rather than just rely on a global setting for a group of pistols in a rotation).

Just to clarify, over travel or pre travel?

[jbrimlow]

Just to clarify, over travel or pre travel?

Pre travel. The drop safety mechanism needs pre travel to function (like on most other semiautos).

Here's Bruce Gray saying why he thinks it's a bad idea (From https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/288508-armory-craft-trigger-and-grey-guns-kit/?do=findComment&comment=3233693)


Straight from me: Do not use any other trigger with our P320 Competition Trigger Kit components.


Reducing pretravel via an adjustment on the trigger defeats the sear safety cam, messes with trigger mass balance & tolerance for impact, and degrades striker lock integrity.



I invented the sear safety cam feature around 2015 to enhance drop safety in our original P320 Competition kits. We made our system available to my friends in NH for incorporation into the Voluntary Upgrade.



Our modern P320 AST & AHT triggers effectively and safely reduce some gross pretravel and slop via optimal fit and finish, while supporting the Voluntary Upgrade fire control system to which I contributed. Our complete P320 Competition Trigger Kits provide the best possible pull characteristics to be obtained, consistent with the margin of tolerance for impact and rough handling we demand for your safety.



And anyhoo, there is literally nothing to be gained by sacrificing mechanical safety for that tiny reduction in travel which, unlike the purely mechanical qualities of overtravel, pull weight, and break texture, is best accommodated through proper technique and training.

If you don't believe me, ask Mason Lane, Isaac Lockwood, Yong Lee or James Delambert.


Thanks for reading and Merry Christmas!

[Archer1440]

Just to clarify, over travel or pre travel?

Of course, Pretravel- sorry, brain-to-fingers malfunction.

I have sent a note to the moderators to request a fix. Sorry about that.

[Super77]

By reputation, and through my personal experience, the original 320 X5 pistols were very accurate (precise). I am picking up chatter front from a number of sources that the Legion uppers do not shoot nearly as well. Max Michel, for example, uses a 320 X5 upper. A friend of mine who is a high round count 320 Legion shooter recently bought 4 320 X5 slides to replace his Legion uppers because their accuracy was poor. Barrel swaps don’t fix the issue, it relates to a change in the Legion slide.

I wonder what the deal is there. I need to get another optic and mount it on to my X5 Legion to compare apples:apples, but I'm pretty happy with how load development is going for my X5 original (is that what we're calling the old ones?). I still need to try loading up some of the 115gr HAP and Zero 125gr JHPs I have, but so far it's pretty accurate with 147gr Zero JHPs. These groups are from a crappy 2x4 rest at 25m. Note I was adjusting zero between groups, it's not zero shift inherent to the load.

I will say subjectively the slide to frame fit is tighter on the X5 OG than the X5 Legion, and the slide to barrel fit on the X5 OG is bank vault, zero play in any direction. I'm legitimately impressed with that aspect. The slide to barrel fit on the X5 Legion is fine, about on par with other good quality pistols.

https://i.imgur.com/W0GOwMRl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/v1nbOZbl.jpg

[GJM]

In our circle of Legion shooters, which is approaching a dozen, it is clear that the Legions do not shoot as tight groups as the X5 pistols. Some Legions start OK, but open up with increasing round counts.

[Super77]

In our circle of Legion shooters, which is approaching a dozen, it is clear that the Legions do not shoot as tight groups as the X5 pistols. Some Legions start OK, but open up with increasing round counts.

That's interesting. I wonder if it affects only Legion slides? In other words is like a tan X5 slide good to go, or does it have to be one of the original X5s milled for Romeo 1 (not R1 Pro)?

[GJM]

That's interesting. I wonder if it affects only Legion slides? In other words is like a tan X5 slide good to go, or does it have to be one of the original X5s milled for Romeo 1 (not R1 Pro)?

My wife and other friends have been buying current production stripped X5 slides from Osage and getting good results with them. They do take a break in period.

[JCS]

A month and a half with the legion and I’ve made a few changes. For competition I think a grip job or tape is a must. I also removed part of the beaver tail and opened up the magwell. Running a springer optic mount for the SRO. 72799
72800

[HeavyDuty]

Yesterday I made a totally unplanned impulse purchase of a X5 Legion after shooting one at demo event at the SIG Academy. I was very impressed by my test drive, and they were offering it to participants at a price that I couldn’t pass up.

I haven’t had a real racegun in a few decades, I walked away from club level action shooting in the very early 90s when it started turning into an equipment race that I couldn’t afford. Later on I did get back into very casual practical shooting (IDPA) with my carry guns, but stopped that years ago. I don’t really see myself getting back into competition, but who knows. For now anyways, this will be a fun range toy that is enjoyable to shoot.

I doubt at this point I’ll be doing any modifications, but due to my eyes I may add a RDS. I’m thinking the easy button RDS is a direct mounted Romeo1 Pro, which I believe allows some kind of cowitness with the stock front sight using the molded in rear channel. Is this correct? Or would I need a taller front sight (not a deal killer.)

[matt7184]

In our circle of Legion shooters, which is approaching a dozen, it is clear that the Legions do not shoot as tight groups as the X5 pistols. Some Legions start OK, but open up with increasing round counts.

Same experience for me as well with my OG X5 and Legion.

[HeavyDuty]

P320 newbie question regarding the X5 Legion. Just because, I’m tempted to pick up a second unweighted grip module, one of the Wilson Combat ones. Would any of the full size ones work, or is the X5 special? The modularity limits are a little confusing.

[Super77]

P320 newbie question regarding the X5 Legion. Just because, I’m tempted to pick up a second unweighted grip module, one of the Wilson Combat ones. Would any of the full size ones work, or is the X5 special? The modularity limits are a little confusing.

Any full size will work.

I think the modularity is pretty universal. There are people running midsize slides on fullsize frames.

[HeavyDuty]

Any full size will work.

I think the modularity is pretty universal. There are people running midsize slides on fullsize frames.

Thanks - I thought I saw comments about limitations between the X5 line and the “normal” P320s.

[call_me_ski]

I thought I remember problems with accuracy degradation being a problem during some high profile testing. (Possibly FBI?) I wonder if this is something that can be consistently measured to be worse than other platforms and to what extent.

[Zincwarrior]

Is this something that would be corrected with a smith fit barrel as well, after say, a thousand rounds to break it in?

[GJM]

I shot three X5 Legion pistols at 25 yards today with 115 American Eagle and 115 PMC. I recently had to switch from 150 Syntech because that ammo was causing stoppages in multiple Legions, and the Syntech hits significantly higher than these two 115 loads.

All three pistols shot the two 115 loads very similarly. The 115 PMC was well centered but it used every bit of the black on a B8, with some shots creeping into the 8 zone. The 115 AE shots groups about half that size. None of the Legions shot as well as the X Compact I also shot today.

I recently received two X5 slides from Osage and will begin experimenting with them, as my wife’s X5 uppers shoot much tighter groups than her and my Legion uppers.

[HeavyDuty]

I was curious about the WC grip modules, so I picked one up from Brownells. It really does make a difference in feel, although whether it will translate into shooting performance remains to be seen. My worry is that it not be like random AR parts, where they seem to grow into a whole new gun when you turn your back on them.

[GJM]

I was curious about the WC grip modules, so I picked one up from Brownells. It really does make a difference in feel, although whether it will translate into shooting performance remains to be seen. My worry is that it not be like random AR parts, where they seem to grow into a whole new gun when you turn your back on them.

I just got a 15 and 17 round Wilson grip module and they are awesome. Love the texture, general ergonomics and the magwell.

[HeavyDuty]

I just got a 15 and 17 round Wilson grip module and they are awesome. Love the texture, general ergonomics and the magwell.

Did you add weights?

[GJM]

Did you add weights?

Nope. At least not yet.

[ccmdfd]

I recently received two X5 slides from Osage and will begin experimenting with them, as my wife’s X5 uppers shoot much tighter groups than her and my Legion uppers.

Are you just using an X5 slide, or is it a different barrel and spring assembly too?

[GJM]

Are you just using an X5 slide, or is it a different barrel and spring assembly too?

Barrel doesn't seem to matter, the slide is the different ingredient.

[Zincwarrior]

https://www.zevtechnologies.com/ZEV-Z320-XFive-Octane-Slide-with-RMR-Optic-Cut-Gray

Would a Zev slide be a good standing for the X5 slide?

[HeavyDuty]

Y’all need to find a really good tool and die maker that can do proper side by side measurements between the two types of slides.

[GJM]

https://www.zevtechnologies.com/ZEV-Z320-XFive-Octane-Slide-with-RMR-Optic-Cut-Gray

Would a Zev slide be a good standing for the X5 slide?

Not sure because I haven't shot one for accuracy. Think it limits you to the RMR/SRO footprint and no provision for a Romeo 3 Max.

[HeavyDuty]

SIG changes specs like my GF changes panties.

This is the widely reproduced pic from CHPWS:

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And this is my recent production X5 Legion:

74931

What exactly will direct fit? Romeo1 Pro, RMR, SRO, anything else? A Acro with an Apex adapter plate?

[Eyesquared]

SIG changes specs like my GF changes panties.

This is the widely reproduced pic from CHPWS:

74930

And this is my recent production X5 Legion:

74931

What exactly will direct fit? Romeo1 Pro, RMR, SRO, anything else? A Acro with an Apex adapter plate?

Looks like DPP will fit too.

[DpdG]

What exactly will direct fit? Romeo1 Pro, RMR, SRO, anything else? A Acro with an Apex adapter plate?

I'm not an expert, but I'm fairly certain a R1P or DPP will be direct fit and fit the cut pretty precisely. A RMR will also fit and screw directly in using the second set of holes, but it will not have recoil lugs that are commonly used for the RMR, although C&H makes a sandwich plate to add recoil lugs. Numerous makers produce adapter plates to go to just about any optic.

[GJM]

Glock Store 320 trigger kit, which has lots of buzz, is finally out, and only $25:

https://www.glockstore.com/Competition-Spring-Kit-for-Sig-P320s

[jbrimlow]

Glock Store 320 trigger kit, which has lots of buzz, is finally out, and only $25:

https://www.glockstore.com/Competition-Spring-Kit-for-Sig-P320s

That's pretty cool, but I don't think it offers much to those of us that have a Grayguns kit already. Unless the spring weights are really different.

I like the low priced option though.

[GJM]

That's pretty cool, but I don't think it offers much to those of us that have a Grayguns kit already. Unless the spring weights are really different.

I like the low priced option though.

A friend had a prototype and it was awesome -- heard Max is using this.

[DDTSGM]

A friend had a prototype and it was awesome -- heard Max is using this.

I watched the video, that Lanny is sure a salesman! He said, and the packaging indicates it is MM endorsed. I ordered one. I think I'll just install the large over-travel bushing first, see what that's like and then add the trigger spring to see how the reset is.

I've spent more on sillier stuff.

[GJM]

I watched the video, that Lanny is sure a salesman! He said, and the packaging indicates it is MM endorsed. I ordered one. I think I'll just install the large over-travel bushing first, see what that's like and then add the trigger spring to see how the reset is.

I've spent more on sillier stuff.

At $25, if it works as well as the other options, it will make some other vendors unhappy.

[Archer1440]

At $25, if it works as well as the other options, it will make some other vendors unhappy.


Perhaps so- I have GG kits in my two P320 X-Fives and those come with a nickel PTFE coated, reprofiled sear, different springs and stops, and a trigger with different leverage points and overtravel adjustment. I think those kits were ~$110 when I got them, and go for ~$150 now (with several finish options on the triggers available).

If you can get most of the benefits- including drop safety- which is the rationale that GG ascribes to various re-engineered parts in particular- for 1/5th the cost of a kit, or about 1/9th the the cost of sending it into GG for the work, then this could be a good thing for users, and a blow to the aftermarket smiths.

But I would personally want to see some test data, to see if this really does maintain safety.

[jbrimlow]

It would seem to depend on what benefits you want. The revised parts from SIG (should) have fixed the drop safety problem. Bruce Gray worked with SIG on the drop safety problem, so his parts also maintain drop safety values. The Glockstore kit just messes with springs, so it should also maintain the drop safety values. Of course, I haven't tested it, so this analysis is worth what you paid for it.

If you want to reduce trigger weight, you have to swap the sear springs, the trigger return spring, or both. This kit would let you do that, as would the Gray Guns kit. Depending on your reset preference, you may want to put heavier springs in somewhere (or not). The Gray Guns kit includes two sets of springs so you can mix and match.

If you want to "clean up" the trigger, you'd need to mess with the sear, the part of the striker that contacts the sear, or both. The Gray Guns kit includes their sear so you can do that. As far as I know, the only other option to work on the break is to send your FCU to the Sig Armorer. Last I heard he was Max Michel's gunsmith. I'm not sure if he still is (and used this spring kit plus striker/sear work) or if Max is just using this spring kit.

The Gray Guns kit also has a trigger with revised geometry to interact with the trigger bar (which can affect pull weight and trigger travel), plus a screw to eliminate overtravel. The Glockstore kit has bushings to eliminate overtravel, but you still have the regular legion trigger/trigger geometry. Which you may or may not prefer.

My completely unscientific guess is that the Glockstore kit will get you a pretty good trigger for run and gun games for a heck of a lot less than the Gray Guns kit (or a Sig Armorer trigger job), but will not please the trigger snobs among us.

[GJM]

I had the R3Max optic off the Max Michel Legion for the first time, and was impressed with what I saw from Sig underneath.

75614

[tlong17]

I had the R3Max optic off the Max Michel Legion for the first time, and was impressed with what I saw from Sig underneath.

75614

That looks clean. Nice work Sig.

[jbrimlow]

GJM Does it have the tighter lockup of the non-legion X5 slides?

[GJM]

GJM Does it have the tighter lockup of the non-legion X5 slides?

No

Trigger kit arrived:

75684

[Archer1440]

I pulled out my early-production (one is so early it has the silver barrel) X-Fives with shrouded, 6 MOA Romeo1’s out this afternoon for the first time in at least 18 months, and ran a few mags through both.

They’re remarkably accurate and easy to shoot fast, so I understand their appeal as game guns. (I was pleased to note the batteries are still charged in the sights, it seems the 6 MOA units really do have the problems sorted out.)

The early X-five really is very accurate (one ragged 2” tall, 1/2” wide vertical hole at 25 yards with Norma 115 grain ammo off the bag), so I am mystified that SIG would have messed with the top end they way they apparently did.

[newyork]

A friend of mine was just bragging about how great these guns are and how popular they are in carry optics. I had no idea there were issues.

Can someone reiterate the issues?

[Archer1440]

In a nutshell, the early X-fives (like mine) have “pre-tensioned” fitted barrels, and current ones have more of a drop-in barrel. Some shooters feel they do not hold accuracy as well.

[JCS]

I cleaned my legion for the first time today. Approximately 4,000 rounds thru it (give or take 500) and it has never had a malfunction of any kind. GG competition trigger and a tungsten guide rod.

It was filthy with carbon caked on parts of the upper and lower. I’m a believer in the platform. There are some odd wear patterns on the slide and barrel. From what I understand the wear on the barrel is a known thing with the p320 from the barrel contacting the takedown lever. I’m running a 12lb spring and the tungsten rod which I’m sure increases the wear.

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[GJM]

My wife got me a GGI Lockwood 4.7 slide and barrel for my AXG lower carry optics pistol. Today, I went to zero it at 20 yards, freestyle with PMC 124. Shot the first group, went six clicks left and got the second group. Looks like this upper shows promise.

98703

98704

98705

[Bryan W]

My wife got me a GGI Lockwood 4.7 slide and barrel for my AXG lower carry optics pistol. Today, I went to zero it at 20 yards, freestyle with PMC 124. Shot the first group, went six clicks left and got the second group. Looks like this upper shows promise.

98703

98704

98705

Outstanding looking gun. I really love my AXG Pro.

[G19Fan]

My wife got me a GGI Lockwood 4.7 slide and barrel for my AXG lower carry optics pistol. Today, I went to zero it at 20 yards, freestyle with PMC 124. Shot the first group, went six clicks left and got the second group. Looks like this upper shows promise.

98703

98704

98705

Incredible group at 20!

[GJM]

Incredible group at 20!

The first group is as good of an offhand group I remember, but with the second group, it clearly is a very accurate slide and barrel.

[G19Fan]

The first group is as good of an offhand group I remember, but with the second group, it clearly is a very accurate slide and barrel.

I have never had 3 rounds touching at 20 yards freestyle. 2 is the closest. Very nice shooting

[JCS]

GJM have you tried any match barrels in the x5? How's the chamber support on the Lockwood barrel? I saw in another post they are using factory barrels and welding and fitting them to the slides.

[GJM]

GJM have you tried any match barrels in the x5? How's the chamber support on the Lockwood barrel? I saw in another post they are using factory barrels and welding and fitting them to the slides.

X5 uppers shoot well. Legion uppers not so well. Match barrels didn't seem to improve things. Using an X5 (not a Legion) slide improved accuracy, leading us to believe the Legion problem was in the slide.

[cheby]

GJM I saw in another post they are using factory barrels and welding and fitting them to the slides.

This is what a lot of people are doing around me. This gun is the post popular USPSA CO gun here. I have both, Gray gun slides and stock Legion slides. Recently, a friend of mine fitted the original barrel this way for me while I was waiting. It took 15 min for him. The Gray guns slides still fill smoother but the accuracy is similar

[awp_101]

I recently traded into one of these on a whim, May 2022 production. In dry fire the trigger seems mushier than my stock Glock triggers. Based on the aftermarket kits, I'm guessing this is pretty normal?

It's not a huge deal since it's only going to be a range toy for giggles, just curious.