Colorado PF’ers - HK P30 V1 LEM search

[kjr_29]

Does anyone (in Colorado, front range area) have a P30 LEM variant I can try? Keenly interested in one and have shot the rental V3 (DA/SA version) at Douglas County Firearms but finding a LEM in stock so far has been unobtanium. Hit up two gun shops today, V3s in stock (if 1 counts as ‘stock’) only.

Happy to pay for range time, Ammo and clean up afterwards if I can shoot it (not necessary since I imagine the recoil feels exactly the same as the V3 I shot)- just want to get my hands on one and feel what the trigger is about before deciding to depart with HK type $ and my PX4C (personal ergo reasons only, it is 110% amazing otherwise).




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[fpnunes]

Sadly, I'm on the other side of the country so can't let you try mine but I can lend an opinion. LEM is different than most trigger systems and requires a bit of dedication to master unless you come from a revolver background. I personally love the LEM trigger (V1 or V2) and find that it quite easy to shoot well.

In case you missed it, there is a great thread from some time ago where many people weighed in https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?8821-Why-the-P30. Give it a read through, well worth it.

[kjr_29]

Sadly, I'm on the other side of the country so can't let you try mine but I can lend an opinion. LEM is different than most trigger systems and requires a bit of dedication to master unless you come from a revolver background. I personally love the LEM trigger (V1 or V2) and find that it quite easy to shoot well.

In case you missed it, there is a great thread from some time ago where many people weighed in https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?8821-Why-the-P30. Give it a read through, well worth it.

Thank you! I have read hours worth on the LEM here, very informative and what convinced me (among few other rational personal observations with my current situation) to explore this option.


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[P30]

Happy to pay for range time, Ammo and clean up afterwards if I can shoot it (not necessary since I imagine the recoil feels exactly the same as the V3 I shot)- just want to get my hands on one and feel what the trigger is about
In short: V1 trigger feels like V3 in single-action but with a longer take-up. It has the same trigger pull weight.

V1 recoil should feel a little bit softer than V3 recoil because the LEM hammer spring is a bit stronger. But it's no big difference.

My favorite P30 trigger variant is V4 CH. "CH" stands for Switzerland. This trigger variant has been developed for and delivered to Swiss Police. It has a take-up length between SA and LEM. Trigger pull weight of V4 (incl. V4 CH) is between V1 and V2. OK, but the differences between the different LEM variants are not so big. Practice is more important.

Remember to rack the slide before you check an LEM trigger. Otherwise you check a double-action trigger.

[kjr_29]

I am very read up on the subject so tracking with all the spring charts, TGS variants, etc. I am also a tactile learner so I need to feel it, touch it, etc which is driving the plea to CO LEM owners.


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[P30]

That's fine. I live 5000 miles away from Colorado. So I've tried to help how I could.

[kjr_29]

That's fine. I live 5000 miles away from Colorado. So I've tried to help how I could.

I appreciate the feedback!


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[Bigghoss]

I'm down in Pueblo and my LEM is a USP9 but if you want to make the drive some time you're welcome to try it.

[JAD]

My approach was to buy it and if I didn’t like it sell it. I wound up liking the P30, but when I’ve done that with other pistols it costs me between $100 (glocks) and $50 (keltec). Since it takes me at least $200 worth of ammo to figure out whether I kind of like a pistol, I figured it was a fair trade.

With the P30LEM it may be the best way to go, because there is a consensus here that it takes at least a couple thousand rounds to figure out whether it’s going to work for you, and with fewer it’s really not giving it a fair shake.

[kjr_29]

I'm down in Pueblo and my LEM is a USP9 but if you want to make the drive some time you're welcome to try it.

Perfect. Actually passing through to Fowler tomorrow for family festivities but no time to stop.

Will let you know. Still pondering a run at learning the RMR and if that’s the fork in this road that I take, I think a Glock may be a better host (resale wise if that ends up not being my cup of tea).


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[kjr_29]

My approach was to buy it and if I didn’t like it sell it. I wound up liking the P30, but when I’ve done that with other pistols it costs me between $100 (glocks) and $50 (keltec). Since it takes me at least $200 worth of ammo to figure out whether I kind of like a pistol, I figured it was a fair trade.

With the P30LEM it may be the best way to go, because there is a consensus here that it takes at least a couple thousand rounds to figure out whether it’s going to work for you, and with fewer it’s really not giving it a fair shake.

That confirms what I took from all my research. I like the concept of the small, medium and long slide options all being alike, but they are pretty tough to find at the moment. I read about HK financial woes as well, that has me re-thinking a bit.


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[TheNewbie]

I put 600 rounds through a P2000 LEM V2. For me, it just never worked that well. I'm the odd ball who like the Sig DAK better and even the P250 DAO better.


Clearly some people love the LEM and it works for them.


I think you have the right mindset in wanting to try it, because it's a unique deal.


Good luck!

[CCT125US]

What previous pistols do you have experience with?

[kjr_29]

What previous pistols do you have experience with?

Long answer to your short question. Here’s my rough resume of ownership (minus M9)

Beretta M9 (21 years in the Army, retired in 2015 before M17 intro).
Glock 17 gen 3
Glock 19 gen 3
Glock 22 gen 3
M&P 1.0
Walther PPQ M2
XDm 3.9 9mm
XDm 4.5 9mm
XDm 4.5 45
Sig P320 C 9mm
—
Colt M1993
Glock 42
Beretta PX4 C 9mm

I only have the bottom three at the moment. Springfield is PNG with me, the 320 recall led me away from that model. The 1993 is sentimental to me (was my grandfathers), the 42 is a hoot and the PX4C is amazing, but I have some significant scarring on my right thumb from a tendon replacement (mountain bike crash, rebuilt thumb in 2016) so when I adjust grip to avoid the oversized knuckle, I cannot use the decocker and I am just not meshing with weak handed manipulation. The decocker on the V3 isn’t ideal either because the rebuilt thumb has about 75% range of the normal joint. CZ PO9 I shot was nice but the beaver tail causes same issue as the curvature on the Px4.

If I hold it this way, I can relieve pressure from the scar but barely get my finger in a good spot on the trigger, my DA pull really suffers and I push left.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190704/0ce9a43ec45d56082b33670579967b47.jpg

If I hold this way, I get a good pull but right numb cannot hit standard decock levers. Stealth levers are a no go for sure for me. Red line depicts scar path.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190704/6cec8fb31ba21491e32d1b17efdfb45b.jpg

The P30 was ergonomically great and I did not find the mag release hard to figure out at all. The decock location sucked though, hence the LEM search.

I plan to go back to DCF guns Friday and rent a Glock, one thing I have learned is the more I can spread the recoil impulse across the palm, the less ‘buzzing’ I get through the scar tissue area.


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[SecondsCount]

I am curious as to why the decock location on the P30 sucked?

I have a LEM V1 P30 but I am in the other side of the hill from you :cool:

[RJ]

I put 600 rounds through a P2000 LEM V2. For me, it just never worked that well. I'm the odd ball who like the Sig DAK better and even the P250 DAO better.


Clearly some people love the LEM and it works for them.


I think you have the right mindset in wanting to try it, because it's a unique deal.


Good luck!

This mirrors my experience.

I took a P30SK V1 LEM through Mr. Givens Combative Pistol Class, so maybe 1,000+ rounds. Plus I shot it at the range of course.

I owned it and carried it at the same time I was learning USPSA with my VP9, so perhaps not really the best combination.

I am not law enforcement, just a semi retired .civ.

I found the LEM hard to consistently get good second shots on the timer. I found the trigger very light, relative to other guns I’ve shot. In the end, the objective advantages of the LEM design for its intended purpose (Law Enforcement) provides no benefit to me.

I sold both HKs and bought a Glock 19.5 and 26.5.




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[SecondsCount]

This mirrors my experience.

I took a P30SK V1 LEM through Mr. Givens Combative Pistol Class, so maybe 1,000+ rounds. Plus I shot it at the range of course.

I owned it and carried it at the same time I was learning USPSA with my VP9, so perhaps not really the best combination.

I am not law enforcement, just a semi retired .civ.

I found the LEM hard to consistently get good second shots on the timer. I found the trigger very light, relative to other guns I’ve shot. In the end, the objective advantages of the LEM design for its intended purpose (Law Enforcement) provides no benefit to me.

I sold both HKs and bought a Glock 19.5 and 26.5.


I was wondering how long it would take for someone to chime in with a "Glock is what you need" post.

[RJ]

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to chime in with a "Glock is what you need" post.

I don’t believe that’s what I said.

[CCT125US]

Here’s my rough resume of ownership.....

Just saw this. On the way to festivities, will give a detailed response later.

[fpnunes]

A quick few points based on some of the above if I may:

First, yes, the reset on the LEM trigger variant is longer than some other systems (Glock, Beretta, CZ, etc.) but unless your intended purpose is top tier competition, who gives a flying fruit tart? If my splits are .33 versus .18 I simply don't care. When Robby Leatham invites me over and bets a case of my favorite brew on it then I'll probably go back to running a G34 and say I gave it a shot (not really, Rob if you are reading this kudos brother!). The LEM is an excellent system for high stress muzzle coverage of bipedal targets and for fun/semi-serious range time. Can you shoot the LEM system in competition, sure, but why? Competition is gaming and stacking the odds in your favor as much as possible, period.

Second, don't sweat HK's financial trouble. They have had terrible financials for years due to poor capital mismanagement. They aren't going anywhere, and if anything does happen, the company won't fold. It will simply re-org it's debt and a new vc firm will pick it up. It is a boutique brand with a huge global following.

Lastly, all combat firearms are simply tools to do a job. If your favorite brand of hammer is missing at the local hardware store you buy what they have in stock. Buy the LEM if you think it will be fun and spend your money on ammo and training. Who knows, maybe you will be the one to give Rob a run for his money? Well not really, but it can't hurt to try, right? ;)

Mind you this is simply my slant post some great BBQ chicken and a few bottles of my favorite brew. If you disagree, well free advice is worth what you paid for it... Happy 4th everyone!

[kjr_29]

I am curious as to why the decock location on the P30 sucked?

I have a LEM V1 P30 but I am in the other side of the hill from you :cool:

It doesn’t suck per de, it just sucks for me with the decreased range of motion. I found it near impossible to pull my right thumb back far enough and move it over to hit the button.

Mostly, the location of a CZ PO7 decocker or Sig 229 works for me, but I don’t really want to carry a full metal 229 and the PO7 beaver tail aggravates my scar tissue (though the Po9 I Shot was fantastic).


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[kjr_29]

I don’t believe that’s what I said.

I get what you said. Certainly easier to transition between the Glocks.


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[Guinnessman]

If you cannot find a LEM to shoot, keep an eye on the classifieds at HKPro for a deal on a used P30. If you buy it right you will not lose money on the deal.

In order to maximize your shooting performance with the LEM, I find dedicated dry plus live fire, spent exclusively with the LEM works best. If you don’t plan on maximizing your LEM performance, you will still have a quality HK firearm that will bring you plenty of joy on the firing line.

[CCT125US]

I think getting hands on is certainly an important part of the process. However, what feels good in the hand, does not always translate to measured performance. Based on what you have stated so far, you have done as much research and reading as possible, and now just need a sample in hand. May take some time, and all I can offer from Ohio is more observation and opinion.

I had asked for your previous handgun experience, and with the list you provided, I have some general observations. Now, these are strictly my subjective observations as finding a counterpoint is pretty easy.

Lookong over the list, certainly mostly striker fired, but a variety of guns. Not all Glocks have the exact same trigger and feel, as you know, so this should be beneficial. LEM seems to be a love / hate trigger. Again, in general, people who have a varied experience tend to do better with LEM. Where I see folks fall off the rails is when they grew up shooting a Glock, or any other one gun. It's not that LEM is necessarily bad, it's just different enough that it plays mental games. Games that can take time to play through and learn from. I have seen very experienced shooters give up on LEM because they could not reach a desired level of performance. The time to rewire was not worth it. One of my close friends who shoots 3 gun, borrowed my USP9c LEM and shot about 85% of me at a local match. Completely cold, without ever firing a single round from an LEM. My thinking there is that he consistently works with a variety of triggers and doesn't ride the reset and just works the trigger straight through.

I have heard the LEM described as being like a 2 stage trigger. That may be a good description, but that is not how you want to work it. Constant motion, finish flat. Think of rowing a boat, you don't jam the oars in the water, pause, then jerk to the rear. It's a smooth, constant motion. However, some don't like the light takeup, followed by the wall. And this is where the spring chart comes in.

I cut the following from another thread and modified for clarity:

Carried a P30 v3 (da/sa), for about 4 years (and 85k rds). Went to a P30 v1 for about a year (8k rds), then a P2000 v2 (LEM) for about 2 years (9k rds), then a USP9c v7 (LEM) for 2 1/2 years (14k rds). Looks like I'm switching back to a P30 v1 for reasons.

I prefer hammer fired guns, and HKs.

Good luck in your search

[P30]

LEM seems to be a love / hate trigger.
For me all in all, it's just mediocre, not more and not less.

LEM pros:

you can put your thumb on the hammer when you reholster (added safety) // better than Glocks
trigger pull weight of variant V4 (27.5 N = 6.2 lbs) is the best compromise over many use cases (I would not say this for other variants) // like Glocks


LEM cons:

very long reset (with the P30) // worse than Glocks


I like the P30 very much for its reliability, accuracy, ergonomics and looks (in this order). Not for its trigger.

[kjr_29]

I think getting hands on is certainly an important part of the process. However, what feels good in the hand, does not always translate to measured performance. Based on what you have stated so far, you have done as much research and reading as possible, and now just need a sample in hand. May take some time, and all I can offer from Ohio is more observation and opinion.

I had asked for your previous handgun experience, and with the list you provided, I have some general observations. Now, these are strictly my subjective observations as finding a counterpoint is pretty easy.

Lookong over the list, certainly mostly striker fired, but a variety of guns. Not all Glocks have the exact same trigger and feel, as you know, so this should be beneficial. LEM seems to be a love / hate trigger. Again, in general, people who have a varied experience tend to do better with LEM. Where I see folks fall off the rails is when they grew up shooting a Glock, or any other one gun. It's not that LEM is necessarily bad, it's just different enough that it plays mental games. Games that can take time to play through and learn from. I have seen very experienced shooters give up on LEM because they could not reach a desired level of performance. The time to rewire was not worth it. One of my close friends who shoots 3 gun, borrowed my USP9c LEM and shot about 85% of me at a local match. Completely cold, without ever firing a single round from an LEM. My thinking there is that he consistently works with a variety of triggers and doesn't ride the reset and just works the trigger straight through.

I have heard the LEM described as being like a 2 stage trigger. That may be a good description, but that is not how you want to work it. Constant motion, finish flat. Think of rowing a boat, you don't jam the oars in the water, pause, then jerk to the rear. It's a smooth, constant motion. However, some don't like the light takeup, followed by the wall. And this is where the spring chart comes in.

I cut the following from another thread and modified for clarity:

Carried a P30 v3 (da/sa), for about 4 years (and 85k rds). Went to a P30 v1 for about a year (8k rds), then a P2000 v2 (LEM) for about 2 years (9k rds), then a USP9c v7 (LEM) for 2 1/2 years (14k rds). Looks like I'm switching back to a P30 v1 for reasons.

I prefer hammer fired guns, and HKs.

Good luck in your search

Good feedback, thanks! Certainly more volume of shooting with striker, more longevity with less volume on DA/SA dating back to 90-91 timeframe. I would classify my habits or skills as still striker biased, though I never really rode the reset on those because I learned to shoot a pistol on the M9 platform. Before wrecking my thumb, I was shooting about 8-10k a year, all striker. I don’t think I shot more than 1.5k total pistol rounds in my Army career.

I have not really established a performance goal, maybe I should step back and quantify where I want to be in a year. Right now, what’s driving the switch is being able to shoot 200 rounds without aggravating the sensitive areas on that right thumb - which can be a component of a longer term performance goal.

I had the good fortune of spending a bit of time talking to Mr Langdon at SHOT show 2018, bought a PX4C the weekend I came home from Vegas. That was 15 months post surgery and I had just gotten the green light from the hand surgeon for unrestricted shooting. With that long of a hiatus, it was a good time to integrate the DA/SA (crawl phase again) and the mild recoil was welcome. I’ve given it 18 months and just am not progressing like I want - certainly not the guns fault. I just have a different baseline to start from now.

Functionally, it would be easier to go back to a Glock. I have a drawer of holsters and mags, plus a box of miscellaneous parts, GFA, etc. I can mitigate the DA/SA safety advantage for AIWB with an SCD and every single gun store around me has oodles of Austrian plastic on the shelf.

Off to go crawl inside my head and set a framework for performance expectations. #freetherapy



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[CCT125US]

LEM cons:

very long reset (with the P30) - worse than Glocks


I like the P30 very much for it's reliability, accuracy, ergonomics and looks (in this order). Not for it's trigger.

Exactly. The USP9c v7 has the shortest reset of all I have tried. I picked up my P30 v1 for some range fun after being away from it for several years. What I had found was that things had changed, such as grip technique, recoil control, overall skill. I was immediately running .20 splits even with that long pull and reset. Glad I didn't sell off my P30s. I had no issues short stroking the P30, which indicates even after 14k on the USP9c, I am not programmed to a certain reset.

[cornstalker]

I didn’t read the whole thread, but I am in C.Springs and have a P30Sk V1 you could try if you want. Lemme know.

[MasterBlaster]

For me all in all, it's just mediocre, not more and not less.

LEM pros:

you can put your thumb on the hammer when you reholster (added safety) // better than Glocks
trigger pull weight of variant V4 (27.5 N = 6.2 lbs) is the best compromise over many use cases (I would not say this for other variants) // like Glocks


LEM cons:

very long reset (with the P30) // worse than Glocks


I like the P30 very much for its reliability, accuracy, ergonomics and looks (in this order). Not for its trigger.

I'd add the bobbed hammer to the list of pros for those who wish to carry concealed.

[kjr_29]

I didn’t read the whole thread, but I am in C.Springs and have a P30Sk V1 you could try if you want. Lemme know.

Thanks. Will certainly keep this option in mind.


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[Sauer Koch]

I think getting hands on is certainly an important part of the process. However, what feels good in the hand, does not always translate to measured performance. Based on what you have stated so far, you have done as much research and reading as possible, and now just need a sample in hand. May take some time, and all I can offer from Ohio is more observation and opinion.

I had asked for your previous handgun experience, and with the list you provided, I have some general observations. Now, these are strictly my subjective observations as finding a counterpoint is pretty easy.

Lookong over the list, certainly mostly striker fired, but a variety of guns. Not all Glocks have the exact same trigger and feel, as you know, so this should be beneficial. LEM seems to be a love / hate trigger. Again, in general, people who have a varied experience tend to do better with LEM. Where I see folks fall off the rails is when they grew up shooting a Glock, or any other one gun. It's not that LEM is necessarily bad, it's just different enough that it plays mental games. Games that can take time to play through and learn from. I have seen very experienced shooters give up on LEM because they could not reach a desired level of performance. The time to rewire was not worth it. One of my close friends who shoots 3 gun, borrowed my USP9c LEM and shot about 85% of me at a local match. Completely cold, without ever firing a single round from an LEM. My thinking there is that he consistently works with a variety of triggers and doesn't ride the reset and just works the trigger straight through.

I have heard the LEM described as being like a 2 stage trigger. That may be a good description, but that is not how you want to work it. Constant motion, finish flat. Think of rowing a boat, you don't jam the oars in the water, pause, then jerk to the rear. It's a smooth, constant motion. However, some don't like the light takeup, followed by the wall. And this is where the spring chart comes in.

I cut the following from another thread and modified for clarity:

Carried a P30 v3 (da/sa), for about 4 years (and 85k rds). Went to a P30 v1 for about a year (8k rds), then a P2000 v2 (LEM) for about 2 years (9k rds), then a USP9c v7 (LEM) for 2 1/2 years (14k rds). Looks like I'm switching back to a P30 v1 for reasons.

I prefer hammer fired guns, and HKs.

Good luck in your search

Excellent info there; lots of points made that can only be made after spending considerable time shooting an LEM trigger. Your comments should be a part of DB’s LEM thread here.

After shooting a 226 & 229 (M11 A-1) almost exclusively, 1-2x/week, for 3yrs, switching to the HK LEM was not a big deal at all, just a minor adjustment was needed with the nuances of the LEM. Being comfortable/competent with a DA trigger goes a long way to making a relatively easy transition from DA to LEM. A SF shooter could do the same, but probably won’t, due to reasons that CCT125US noted above.

This is probably a stretch, but mechanically, you could almost think of the P30 LEM, as a Glock with a Gadget. Aside from the long, lite, take up, the actual pull weight is pretty close to a Glock, and the hammer is the Gadget. ? But, the long reset and take-up seem to be the deal breaker for most who try it.

At this point, my wife and I are both very happy with the V1 LEM.

[kjr_29]

So I found an HK P2000 Kompact LEM at Specialty in C Springs today. It wasn’t a light LEM but I have satisfied the search itch.

It did not suck. Long pull and smooth but not what I was fully expecting. I could like it for sure - but not going to search all over for one.

I did rent some striker fired a yesterday, Gen5 G19, FN 509 Tactical with a Vortex Red Dot, and Glock 20, just because I had a burning desire to hang on to a 10mm.

The G19Gen5 was money, but it had a funky stippling. The 509T was pretty nice but nothing special compared to 19x and G45s I have shot. The G20 was a beast but I liked it a lot. SF grip would help and I am dead set on getting a G21 for backcountry (I liked the big bore Glock), don’t want to introduce 10mm ammo since I have a .45 ACP gun already. I’ll look at 185gr XTP +P loads in .45 and compare to 180gr 10mm ballistics but I think a deep penetrating bonded .45 is enough for what I will encounter in the CO backcountry.

Anyway, I came away enamored with the red dot and how it worked for my eyes. Last experience with a red dot was two years ago shooting a suppressed FNX-45 at the ProForce booth, LVMPD SHOT Show event - but that was just 10 rounds outdoors on a brick of a gun. Not much time to experiment.

At this point, I would rather jump off on some serious RMR training/learning than the LEM training/learning at the moment.


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[David S.]

Re: P-07.

Just curious, do you know if the P-07 that you ran was a version 1 (DUTY on front of slide) or version 2 (forward slide serrations)? The V2 is more like the P-09.

[kjr_29]

Re: P-07.

Just curious, do you know if the P-07 that you ran was a version 1 (DUTY on front of slide) or version 2 (forward slide serrations)? The V2 is more like the P-09.

I have only test fired the PO9. I did find a PO7 used at another gun shop in my LEM search and it was a V2. Nice trigger.


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[JonInWA]

An aspect of this discussion that I find both interesting and a bit perplexing is the continued mention and seeming preoccupation with reset. A couple of thoughts:

1. I simply don't find the reset distance on my HK P30L LEm to be that inordinately long; yeah, it's not as virtually instantaneous as on a Glock, but it's not like that on a revolver or a High Power where the reset is achieved only when the trigger is fully forward;

2. My understanding is that it's not necessarily such a great idea to focus on firing from the reset point once it's immediately reached; concentration is better spent on other aspects of the shooting process regarding follow-up/repeated shots.

Regarding LEM, the most important take-away for me was to understand the purpose and mechanical LEM process, and then modifying the trigger return/rebound spring to best suit MY specific perceived needs-I needed more constant tactile feedback and trigger resistance throughout the trigger pull, and preferred less of transition when reaching the break point; so for me (and with the assistance of many on p-f, but especially Coyote41, Dagga Boy and TooSixy on the HKPro forum and HK Tech Support (their input and assistance was invaluable). The upshot was that HK replaced my OEM Trigger Return/Rebound spring with the slightly heavier middle/medium weight spring, which made a significant difference and improvement for me; my V1 Light LEM was transformed into what I call V1.5 LEM.

I'm quite satisfied with the LEM triggerpull distance and reset, which remain unchanged an unaffected by the TRS change.

I think it's very important to know the philosophy behind LEM, how it mechanically works, and its operational characteristics, and a sufficient commitment to actual practice and use to be able to discern, analyze and quantify what's working and what needs improvement for you and your use with a LEM gun.

For most, it's simply not going to be the fastest action with which you can achieve the quickest splits; that's not the point of it (but yes, when you get sufficiently dialed in with it, it can be shot very quickly and effectively).

Best, Jon

[kjr_29]

Thanks Jon!


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[kjr_29]

I think getting hands on is certainly an important part of the process. However, what feels good in the hand, does not always translate to measured performance. Based on what you have stated so far, you have done as much research and reading as possible, and now just need a sample in hand. May take some time, and all I can offer from Ohio is more observation and opinion.

I had asked for your previous handgun experience, and with the list you provided, I have some general observations. Now, these are strictly my subjective observations as finding a counterpoint is pretty easy.

Lookong over the list, certainly mostly striker fired, but a variety of guns. Not all Glocks have the exact same trigger and feel, as you know, so this should be beneficial. LEM seems to be a love / hate trigger. Again, in general, people who have a varied experience tend to do better with LEM. Where I see folks fall off the rails is when they grew up shooting a Glock, or any other one gun. It's not that LEM is necessarily bad, it's just different enough that it plays mental games. Games that can take time to play through and learn from. I have seen very experienced shooters give up on LEM because they could not reach a desired level of performance. The time to rewire was not worth it. One of my close friends who shoots 3 gun, borrowed my USP9c LEM and shot about 85% of me at a local match. Completely cold, without ever firing a single round from an LEM. My thinking there is that he consistently works with a variety of triggers and doesn't ride the reset and just works the trigger straight through.

I have heard the LEM described as being like a 2 stage trigger. That may be a good description, but that is not how you want to work it. Constant motion, finish flat. Think of rowing a boat, you don't jam the oars in the water, pause, then jerk to the rear. It's a smooth, constant motion. However, some don't like the light takeup, followed by the wall. And this is where the spring chart comes in.

I cut the following from another thread and modified for clarity:

Carried a P30 v3 (da/sa), for about 4 years (and 85k rds). Went to a P30 v1 for about a year (8k rds), then a P2000 v2 (LEM) for about 2 years (9k rds), then a USP9c v7 (LEM) for 2 1/2 years (14k rds). Looks like I'm switching back to a P30 v1 for reasons.

I prefer hammer fired guns, and HKs.

Good luck in your search

Thread revival.

Found a very lightly used P30sk V1 in a LGS yesterday, would be surprised if it had more than 200 rounds through it. Life is good.

I did get the RMR host (never had it killed) and set it up with a Overwatch NP3 coated trigger bar, - connector, and Ny1 trigger spring, like that heavier weight so, the V4 spring maybe in the future.


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[kjr_29]

*milled not killed [emoji12]


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[cornstalker]

Thread revival.

Found a very lightly used P30sk V1 in a LGS yesterday, would be surprised if it had more than 200 rounds through it. Life is good.

I did get the RMR host (never had it killed) and set it up with a Overwatch NP3 coated trigger bar, - connector, and Ny1 trigger spring, like that heavier weight so, the V4 spring maybe in the future.


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Did you find a coated trigger bar without a trigger?

[kjr_29]

Did you find a coated trigger bar without a trigger?

No, have their trigger shoe as well. I never liked the lines on a G19 trigger shoe, and in my previous foray, swapped the G17 smooth trigger shoe in. I would guess, with the smooth NP3, plus Ny1, about 6-6.5lbs.


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[cornstalker]

No, have their trigger shoe as well. I never liked the lines on a G19 trigger shoe, and in my previous foray, swapped the G17 smooth trigger shoe in. I would guess, with the smooth NP3, plus Ny1, about 6-6.5lbs.


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Nice. Been thinking about trying that with the Tac trigger I have. Then I could have the coated trigger bar without losing my pretravel. Thanks.

[FreedomFries]

No, have their trigger shoe as well. I never liked the lines on a G19 trigger shoe, and in my previous foray, swapped the G17 smooth trigger shoe in. I would guess, with the smooth NP3, plus Ny1, about 6-6.5lbs.


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Does the NP3 make a big difference? I've been trying to get a light DAOish trigger on a Glock for a bit and also tried NY1 with a minus connector, then tried reduced power striker spring with it too, but the wall is still quite strong. I've been looking at those Overwatch NP3 coated parts, but seems like a lot money to spend without knowing if it'll change much for me. I'm also looking at the SD9VE with an Apex spring kit, or, more relevant to the title, LEM with heavy TRS before I just give up and try learning to love typical striker fired triggers.

[cornstalker]

Does the NP3 make a big difference? I've been trying to get a light DAOish trigger on a Glock for a bit and also tried NY1 with a minus connector, then tried reduced power striker spring with it too, but the wall is still quite strong. I've been looking at those Overwatch NP3 coated parts, but seems like a lot money to spend without knowing if it'll change much for me. I'm also looking at the SD9VE with an Apex spring kit, or, more relevant to the title, LEM with heavy TRS before I just give up and try learning to love typical striker fired triggers.

I had the a set of Overwatch NP3'ed parts in my Gen 5 19. Tac Trigger, minus connector and safety plunger. In my opinion, that actually seemed to create a more defined wall than the standard G5 parts. I did not change any springs.

[kjr_29]

I had the a set of Overwatch NP3'ed parts in my Gen 5 19. Tac Trigger, minus connector and safety plunger. In my opinion, that actually seemed to create a more defined wall than the standard G5 parts. I did not change any springs.

NY1 spring in my Gen4 really muted that feel, more deliberate pull through due to the spring resistance. Kind of what I was going for and best combo I could work out using OEM parts (Coated) that maintained OEM geometries.

That beings said, liking this LEM so far over three days of dry fire.


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[kjr_29]

Does the NP3 make a big difference? I've been trying to get a light DAOish trigger on a Glock for a bit and also tried NY1 with a minus connector, then tried reduced power striker spring with it too, but the wall is still quite strong. I've been looking at those Overwatch NP3 coated parts, but seems like a lot money to spend without knowing if it'll change much for me. I'm also looking at the SD9VE with an Apex spring kit, or, more relevant to the title, LEM with heavy TRS before I just give up and try learning to love typical striker fired triggers.

Hard to quantify the change for me. I got it lightly used, it had a ZEV trigger that was way light, I sold it and got the Overwatch, OEM bits stayed in the spare parts role. Cost neutral for me. I would offer, it certainly does not hurt.

I like the LEM so far in dry fire, very reminiscent of the single action trigger pull feel I came to appreciate with my PX4 Compact, with a little pull weight increase half way through.

Mentally though, I had one foot in cornstalkers camp of simplification, despite preferences, with Austrian plastics. Until I can certify that the LEM does indeed scratch my itch, which as of now, it does (still in honeymoon period though), I probably will continue to straddle the line.

One thing for sure though, I have adapted to the HK mag release quickly and really like it. +1 HK for that.


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