How Is This NOT Suspicious Behavior?

[Cypher]

I worked 12 hour shift last night. I got home at noon and walked my dog. There was someone sitting in a car with the engine running with a sun shade in the window. I walked the dog at 7pm someone is sitting in the same car engine still running. I went out again at 10pm and the same person is still sitting in the same car with the engine running.

So I called the cops to ask for a drive by and the dispatcher gave me a ration of shit because sitting in a car for ten hours wasn't Illegal. Which it's not but I can't come up with a good reason for someone who's not up to some shit to do it.

So what does the collective think? Was that a waste of the cops time?

[HCM]

I worked 12 hour shift last night. I got home at noon and walked my dog. There was someone sitting in a car with the engine running with a sun shade in the window. I walked the dog at 7pm someone is sitting in the same car engine still running. I went out again at 10pm and the same person is still sitting in the same car with the engine running.

So I called the cops to ask for a drive by and the dispatcher gave me a ration of shit because sitting in a car for ten hours wasn't Illegal. Which it's not but I can't come up with a good reason for someone who's not up to some shit to do it.

So what does the collective think? Was that a waste of the cops time?


I think it’s LEOs watching one of your neighbors, dispatch knows exactly who they are and they aren’t going to tell you because they don’t know who you are or why you are calling.

While it may look obvious to you, hopefully they are far enough away and watching via optics or a drop camera that it’s not obvious to the people they are watching.

Are you sure it’s the exact same car ? Because if Agency admin is not on top of things fleet managers like to buy the same “unmarked” for everyone, because the only thing more suspicious than a single blue impala is four identical blue impalas.

[0ddl0t]

Lots of folks are living/camping out of their cars these days. I don't see anything worthy of a non-emergency call unless they're parked illegally or you're in a jurisdiction with a no idling ordinance.

[Cypher]

I think it’s LEOs watching one of your neighbors, dispatch knows exactly who they are and they aren’t going to tell you because they don’t know who you are or why you are calling.

Are you sure it’s the exact same car ? Because if Agency admin is not on top of things fleet managers like to buy the same “unmarked” for everyone, because the only thing more suspicious than a single blue impala is four identical blue impalas.

On the one hand I hope you're just jerking my chain.

On there other, if you are you're an asshole.

[Cypher]

Lots of folks are living/camping out of their cars these days. I don't see anything worthy of a non-emergency call unless they're parked illegally or you're in a jurisdiction with a no idling ordinance.

Private property, not a KOA. It's also been my experience that homeless people are like fleas. If you let one in pretty soon you have a colony

[HCM]

On the one hand I hope you're just jerking my chain.

On there other, if you are you're an asshole.

Nope, dead serious. If the dispatcher was smart she would tell you thanks, we’ll check it out and just close out the call. But they’re not all smart.

This, and avoiding blue on blue issues are why calling in to local dispatch is so important.

I’m a big fan of people calling the cops for suspicious things but if they are legit the local PD knows who they are and why they are there and you are not on the need to know list.


https://youtu.be/MJHDAnwZlpQ

Now, I’m not familiar with Colorado Springs but if it’s anything like large urban areas in CA then the idea that it might be someone living in their car is possible too.

I’m not kidding about the identical or near identical cars either.

[Cypher]

Nope, dead serious. If the dispatcher was smart she would tell you thanks, we’ll check it out and just close out the call. But they’re not all smart.

This, and avoiding blue on blue issues are why calling in to local dispatch is so important.

I’m a big fan of people calling the cops for suspicious things but if they are legit the local PD knows who they are and why they are there and you are not on the need to know list.


https://youtu.be/MJHDAnwZlpQ

Now, I’m not familiar with Colorado Springs but if it’s anything like large urban areas in CA then the idea that it might be someone living in their car is possible too.

I’m not kidding about the identical or near identical cars either.

There's two things that make me question your assessment of the situation. The first is how obvious it is that the person is there. I mean I would think if you were doing surveillance on somebody you would at least want to be somewhat discreet about it.

The second thing is how do we account for the person sitting in the car with sun shades up you can't see anything when you've got the windshield blocked off.

As for the person living in their car I suspect that's what's going on but that's trouble too because once you got somebody out there living in their car if it's allowed to go unchallenged they will draw more people and sooner or later there will be trouble because of it

[HCM]

There's two things that make me question your assessment of the situation. The first is how obvious it is that the person is there. I mean I would think if you were doing surveillance on somebody you would at least want to be somewhat discreet about it.

The second thing is how do we account for the person sitting in the car with sun shades up you can't see anything when you've got the windshield blocked off.

As for the person living in their car I suspect that's what's going on but that's trouble too because once you got somebody out there living in their car if it's allowed to go unchallenged they will draw more people and sooner or later there will be trouble because of it

I’ve spent 13 of the last 24 years working fugitives. What you describe sounds exactly like cops doing surveillance. You can see out around the wind shield shade better than you can see in if you are looking out the front. You can more easily watch behind you with the vehicle mirrors or a camera in the back window of the car. Binos work with vehicle mirrors too. They also may be out of direct line of sight of their target and watching their target via a tablet and a small wireless “drop” camera. If they are far enough away from their target it’s not obvious. They just need to be inconspicuous to their target, not invisible to everyone.


https://youtu.be/nyGZAg3lo9A

I never buy the red pistachios.

It is certainly possible it is someone living in their car but the response you received indicates otherwise. They may well have a resident where they are parked knock on the window. Unlike dispatch they should have an idea who they are looking at and who their associates are so they will likely ID them selves as police which satisfies 99% of the neighbors.

Along those lines could a homeless person afford to run their car constantly ?

[wvincent]

The elephant in the room, maybe they are watching Cypher.
Hmmm, dude, anything you want to tell us?;)
Maybe that fox filed a complaint over the clipboard.

[Lester Polfus]

A couple of observations:

1) One of the less glamorous aspects of law enforcement is doing stuff like sitting in an Ares K car that has barely functional air conditioning and smells of another dude's farts for 12 hours.

2) The fact that they often sit with the engine idling for 12 hours is one of the many, many reasons why you should never buy a surplus police car.

[TGS]

A couple of observations:

1) One of the less glamorous aspects of law enforcement is doing stuff like sitting in an Ares K car that has barely functional air conditioning and smells of another dude's farts for 12 hours.

2) The fact that they often sit with the engine idling for 12 hours is one of the many, many reasons why you should never buy a surplus police car.

12 hours straight is nothing. ;)

We had a suburban sit for 3 months straight, non-stop idling. The only time it turned off was for refuel, car wash, and when it would automatically turn off because you hadn't put the car in gear for 2 hours.

[UNM1136]

I gotta agree with HCM.

Look at his contributions to the forum overall before dismissing what he has to say.

My agency would be required to dispatch on it unless we were in the loop of something happening. About a year ago I had a similar issue with what turned out to be an FBI agent who wanted to stay in the area of her operation while on her 12 hours off. For whatever reason sleeping.in her unit was important, and it was none of my business after I checked her creds. She wouldn't tell me about the op, she told me that she had 12 hours off and was trying to get some shuteye, which I thought was bordering on too much info.

Along with state-contract block purchased vehicles, I have also seen such silliness as U/C vehicles parked mixed in with marked units 24/7 for months at a time (even with the cryptic "commander's first name deleted Pest Control" registration with the police department's address. when you ran the plate)

I recently drove by a local "secret substation" to see the front gate open, a brace of SUVs with spotlights and a group of guys in raid jackets and Tac vests with drop holsters drinking beer out front at 0100. The same secret squirrel group was running their WIFI with both the department"s and unit's initials as the WIFI network's name. This same unit sends its unit supervisors to Langley VA for training, and has had several DEVGRU members named in lawsuits when they were being hosted by SWAT...

pat

[0ddl0t]

Along those lines could a homeless person afford to run their car constantly ?

Many of the car campers in California are reasonably well-paid, but just can't or don't want to pay $3,000/month for a shared bedroom. Some even have homes in the distant suburbs, but stay in the city during the work week. A recent count in San Francisco turned up ~450 such vehicles.

There is an entire subculture out there kind of glamorizing the life of surreptitiously living in your Honda Element: http://christarzanclemens.com/2014/10/home-sweet-honda/
http://christarzanclemens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Home-Sweet-Honda-1.jpg
http://christarzanclemens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Home-Sweet-Honda-6.jpg


The state assembly recently passed a bill requiring cities with over 330,000 people to provide a safe haven overnight parking lot with restrooms. San Diego has one already, Sacramento is planning one...

[HCM]

Many of the car campers in California are reasonably well-paid, but just can't or don't want to pay $3,000/month for a shared bedroom. Some even have homes in the distant suburbs, but stay in the city during the work week. A recent count in San Francisco turned up ~450 such vehicles.

There is an entire subculture out there kind of glamorizing the life of surreptitiously living in your Honda Element: http://christarzanclemens.com/2014/10/home-sweet-honda/
http://christarzanclemens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Home-Sweet-Honda-1.jpg
http://christarzanclemens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Home-Sweet-Honda-6.jpg


The state assembly recently passed a bill requiring cities with over 330,000 people to provide a safe haven overnight parking lot with restrooms. San Diego has one already, Sacramento is planning one...

People in the demographic you are describing were using RVs in long term parking when I was in CA and that was over 10 years ago.

[mmc45414]

Many of the car campers in California are reasonably well-paid, but just can't or don't want to pay $3,000/month for a shared bedroom.
There is an entire subculture out there kind of glamorizing the life of surreptitiously living in your Honda Element

I have been interested in having some kind of RV, but it seems like nothing I want is commonly available, and casually researching building a camper shows exactly this. Many people that get new jobs at a tech company are either starting up in life, or starting back up in life after taking some time to travel around or something. So they are suddenly making big bucks, but do not have much savings cushion, and are working or commuting into the most expensive housing markets in the world. Plus they probably spend some time to make sure they are a fit at their new job. So they take a dump before they leave for the day, hop in their van and go surf or bike ride or whatever they would be doing anyway, and then find someplace to sleep. All of those kinds of companies have someplace to take a shower, or a gym membership is cheaper than rent.

Another angle is people that work construction who have to temporarily live where the work is. There is another subculture that makes a game of modifying cargo trailers so they can surreptitiously live in them, with a nice build out inside but it still looks like a typical cargo trailer on the outside.

Part of the scam is not having something that looks like an RV, just something that looks like a van or a trailer.

[SJC3081]

There are other legitimate reasons why someone would be parked for ten hours, insurance investigator, real-estate investigator and workman's compensation fraud investigator.

[blues]

On the one hand I hope you're just jerking my chain.

On there other, if you are you're an asshole.

He's not jerking your chain. I can't count the amount of times I've sat for hours in residential areas in my unmarked vehicle watching a residence involved in narcotics trafficking, money laundering, arms smuggling or possible terror connection.

Sometime folks would come up to the vehicle to inquire, sometimes cops did. Mostly people gave a wide berth.

Keep an eye out and if you really get hinked up by some activity beyond the surveillance, make another report and request an officer do a drive by or come to your residence.

Just because the individual is obvious to you, he would not be to the target of his surveillance who may be further down the street, around a corner, in front or behind.

[UNM1136]

There are other legitimate reasons why someone would be parked for ten hours, insurance investigator, real-estate investigator and workman's compensation fraud investigator.

Private investigator working a divorce case...

Cypher,

I have gleaned from your posts a .mil history (Intel?) and a private security current position. OPSEC dude. Need to know. Sure, a dispatcher may give you a hard time, but is it more likely the dispatcher would give you a hard time because they knew something you didn`t, or because they thought you were an idiot.... Most dispatchers think most callers are idiots...

If the potential operation is successful you might not ever know... IF the operation was unsuccessful why would you ever be allowed to know?

Or it could be a homeless camper.

HCM may be an asshole, but I would not know. My interactions with him have been educational, and all on this forum...

pat

[Jason M]

As HCM posted LE does that kind of thing all the time. In my area, so do PI's. Most often they are working for insurance companies that are trying to avoid paying a fraudulent or questionable personal injury/workers comp claim. If the PI can catch the claimant engaging in some activity that would contradict their claim, the insurance claim, they save money. Lately we have seen a rise in PIs doing surveillance for things like custody battles. Your Ex can get a ton of traction in custody court with pictures of your amish-midget hooker leaving your home after your regular Tuesday date.

[BehindBlueI's]

As for the person living in their car I suspect that's what's going on but that's trouble too because once you got somebody out there living in their car if it's allowed to go unchallenged they will draw more people and sooner or later there will be trouble because of it

Do you have a law or ordinance against it? We have an ordinance against parking in front of a residence without permission for more than 8 hours, so we would have something to enforce, but they could just roll down two houses and be good for another 8. It's generally not illegal to be homeless or live out of a car.

I agree that it's likely surveillance. Sitting out in the open is less obvious then attempting to hide the car. Robbery stakeouts, residents might notice you've been sitting there for 8 hours, robbers aren't going to know which car has been there 8 hours and which got there 5 minutes ago. I've been confronted by home owners or been called in as a suspicious vehicle before while sitting in a residential that gave me a clear view to a pharmacy or gas station. I've sat in residentials for hours waiting to see if a particular vehicle I had a GPS warrant for was going to park nearby so the device could be installed.

I don't know the rules there, but due to liability and dispatchers not being trained in the law it's a pretty common requirement to dispatch EVERY run unless a police supervisor says it can be disregarded. If you call because a UFO is hovering over your house, the dispatcher can't tell you we aren't sending someone. Based on the above facts and information, count me amongst the group that the potential is present that it's surveillance and the dispatcher knew it due to deconfliction.

[Cypher]

Do you have a law or ordinance against it? We have an ordinance against parking in front of a residence without permission for more than 8 hours, so we would have something to enforce, but they could just roll down two houses and be good for another 8. It's generally not illegal to be homeless or live out of a car.

I agree that it's likely surveillance. Sitting out in the open is less obvious then attempting to hide the car. Robbery stakeouts, residents might notice you've been sitting there for 8 hours, robbers aren't going to know which car has been there 8 hours and which got there 5 minutes ago. I've been confronted by home owners or been called in as a suspicious vehicle before while sitting in a residential that gave me a clear view to a pharmacy or gas station. I've sat in residentials for hours waiting to see if a particular vehicle I had a GPS warrant for was going to park nearby so the device could be installed.

I don't know the rules there, but due to liability and dispatchers not being trained in the law it's a pretty common requirement to dispatch EVERY run unless a police supervisor says it can be disregarded. If you call because a UFO is hovering over your house, the dispatcher can't tell you we aren't sending someone. Based on the above facts and information, count me amongst the group that the potential is present that it's surveillance and the dispatcher knew it due to deconfliction.

They never actually said "We're not sending anyone." I dont remember exactly how he worded it but it was along the lines of "Someone sitting in a car isn't that big of a deal" the only time I've ever been told "we're not sending a unit." was once at work when I reported a vehicle in a handicapped spot without a placard. It was the facility manager's biggest pet peeve and he demanded that we call it in. I called it in and the dispatcher told me they don't send cars for that. I asked for a reference number and told her I didn't care one way or the other as long as I could document that I followed post orders.

Personally, if it was surveillance and I was the dispatcher I would have told me "Ok, we'll get someone out there ASAP." and gone on to the next thing.

[Cypher]

The elephant in the room, maybe they are watching Cypher.
Hmmm, dude, anything you want to tell us?;)
Maybe that fox filed a complaint over the clipboard.

Spud was my friend. I would go sit on a log up on the hill at work and take a break and she would come sit with me.

[BehindBlueI's]

Personally, if it was surveillance and I was the dispatcher I would have told me "Ok, we'll get someone out there ASAP." and gone on to the next thing.

Look at the wages for dispatchers in your area then take a swing at who's working dispatch. Your area might be an exception, like Louisville, where dispatchers are well paid out of the gate. Most places are comparable to fast food wages. The applicant pool then consists of people trying to get a foot in the door into other areas of public safety and people who are qualified for, and satisfied with, fast food wage jobs.

[Cypher]

1) One of the less glamorous aspects of law enforcement is doing stuff like sitting in an Ares K car that has barely functional air conditioning and smells of another dude's farts for 12 hours.

You have just described the life of a security guard to a "T".



2) The fact that they often sit with the engine idling for 12 hours is one of the many, many reasons why you should never buy a surplus police car.

I warned two of my coworkers multiple times that they were going to blow the engine on a work car doing that. Long story short, they did, when the company replaced the car they started running it like that again. I reminded then what happened to the last one and they said it wasn't their problem and that they were entitled to use the AC in the car. I quit trying to convince them at that point.

[Cypher]

I think it’s LEOs watching one of your neighbors, dispatch knows exactly who they are and they aren’t going to tell you because they don’t know who you are or why you are calling.

While it may look obvious to you, hopefully they are far enough away and watching via optics or a drop camera that it’s not obvious to the people they are watching.

Are you sure it’s the exact same car ? Because if Agency admin is not on top of things fleet managers like to buy the same “unmarked” for everyone, because the only thing more suspicious than a single blue impala is four identical blue impalas.


So, first my apologies to HCM, I really did think he was jerking my chain but most of the people responding here are confirming his assessment.

Having said that, this seems like an incredibly stupid way to do surveillance on someone to me. Now I realize I have a better understanding of the the lay out for my neighborhood than you all do but there is a veterinary clinic about 100 yards away from where the car was parked that was empty and would have provided multiple shade trees but still with a clear view of our parking lot. That's where I would have set up shop.

[HCM]

So, first my apologies to HCM, I really did think he was jerking my chain but most of the people responding here are confirming his assessment.

Having said that, this seems like an incredibly stupid way to do surveillance on someone to me. Now I realize I have a better understanding of the the lay out for my neighborhood than you all do but there is a veterinary clinic about 100 yards away from where the car was parked that was empty and would have provided multiple shade trees but still with a clear view of our parking lot. That's where I would have set up shop.

Hard to say on positioning unless you know what they are watching and how they are watching it. A car in a closed business can stand out too.

[blues]

So, first my apologies to HCM, I really did think he was jerking my chain but most of the people responding here are confirming his assessment.

Having said that, this seems like an incredibly stupid way to do surveillance on someone to me. Now I realize I have a better understanding of the the lay out for my neighborhood than you all do but there is a veterinary clinic about 100 yards away from where the car was parked that was empty and would have provided multiple shade trees but still with a clear view of our parking lot. That's where I would have set up shop.

You're making the assumption you know where their target is located and what the most advantageous spot would be to accomplish their goal. Better to assume, (if you're going to make the leap), that they know what they're doing.

You also don't know what other assets may or may not be in the area and why and how they are deployed as they are.

[RevolverRob]

If the vehicle is parked in front of your property - Why not knock on the window and inquire about the purpose of occupancy? Of course, approach it like you would any suspicious person on your property, preferably with long-arm equipped backup.

If it's parked in front of a neighbor's house, check with your neighbor?

Otherwise, I'd keep an eye on it from afar and monitor the situation, if the vehicle is present, running, for more than 24 hours. I would call not only the PD, but the local city ordinance/code inspector. Most cities have ordnance limits on idling within residential areas (it is a health hazard after all).

Alternatively, you could go all gung-ho and get a gang of armed neighbors and flashmob around the vehicle and demand answers from the occupant(s). :p

ETA: It sounds like maybe you live in an apartment/condo complex? If so, have the management company make contact.

[Gearqueer]

OP,

I can’t count how many times I’ve been eye-balled by someone like you who was not happy about me being there. When it happened I was actually glad to see people notice me because, well,... they should have. I was four or more blocks away from the target house/business. Many times I wasn’t the main eye, and I had to establish mobile surveillance once the target started moving (are you near a busy intersection?).

It’s sad, but most people (especially women) are completely oblivious to things like this. Bad guys are very very attuned to surveillance if they are any good. That’s why it’s common for them to take a little neighborhood bike ride just prior to a deal or if they think somethings up.

Don’t take this personal, if it’s LE (who else would burn that much gas?) they are trying to keep your community safe. If it’s a white guy in his thirties with a beard I’d say chances are 99.99%. Haha.

Dispatchers always covered for us because of safety and OpSec reasons. Good on you for noticing.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Poconnor]

I say call it in; call in anything suspicious. If they are busy they will get to it hours later. In my jurisdiction it was usually a PI on a workers comp case or a divorce case. I also saw more stalkers, child molesters, guys trying to watch their kids when they have no visitation than feds on a stakeout. We had a crazy guy that was stalking his ex wife. When approached by patrol he had rope, a hatchet and a hacksaw in plain view. He was so crazy he told them the tools were for his wife.

[Cypher]

I say call it in; call in anything suspicious. If they are busy they will get to it hours later. In my jurisdiction it was usually a PI on a workers comp case or a divorce case. I also saw more stalkers, child molesters, guys trying to watch their kids when they have no visitation than feds on a stakeout. We had a crazy guy that was stalking his ex wife. When approached by patrol he had rope, a hatchet and a hacksaw in plain view. He was so crazy he told them the tools were for his wife.

I live in a pretty crappy neighborhood if I called the cops for everything I saw that looked sketchy I'd be on the phone constantly.

I don't want to be "that guy" with the police and I definitely do not want my neighbors to even think that I would even think to call the cops.

So, unless I have something very specific like an ATM in the dumpster (true story bro) or a homeless person sleeping in the laundry room or someone passed out in the parking lot to report I don't call the police.

Someone sitting in our parking lot for approximately 12 hours seemed like something the cops might want to know about

[Coyotesfan97]

I worked 12 hour shift last night. I got home at noon and walked my dog. There was someone sitting in a car with the engine running with a sun shade in the window. I walked the dog at 7pm someone is sitting in the same car engine still running. I went out again at 10pm and the same person is still sitting in the same car with the engine running.

So I called the cops to ask for a drive by and the dispatcher gave me a ration of shit because sitting in a car for ten hours wasn't Illegal. Which it's not but I can't come up with a good reason for someone who's not up to some shit to do it.

So what does the collective think? Was that a waste of the cops time?

The first thing I thought was LE surveillance. If it’s running it’s not the primary eye. If your the primary eye embrace the suck because you’ll have to turn it off. You can see a lot with a sun shade in the window through gaps and positioning your seat. It sounds like the dispatcher could’ve done a better job shining you on. Thank you we’ll send a car when we can. Then they should notify the surveillance they’re getting calls about you.

[Cypher]

FWIW the car was gone this morning

[Cypher]

Look at the wages for dispatchers in your area then take a swing at who's working dispatch. Your area might be an exception, like Louisville, where dispatchers are well paid out of the gate. Most places are comparable to fast food wages. The applicant pool then consists of people trying to get a foot in the door into other areas of public safety and people who are qualified for, and satisfied with, fast food wage jobs.

Dispatchers around here are city employees. They get PERA and city benefits and are well paid

[Poconnor]

What I mean by suspicious is what is not normal in your neighborhood. You would know best. If you become that guy they will let you know. Extreme example- yard worker with a machete- vs bloody guy with a bloody machete. As for dispatchers- they have a difficult job and hear terrible things not to mention bosses that always strive to be cheaper and not worry about quality. My Dept sued the county 911 center due to poor radio reception. We could not hear them. Their lawyer testified that all they are required to do is receive a call by phone and dispatch by radio. They were not responsible for anyone hearing them. Our Dept paid for repeaters. Still I always tried to be nice to them. Stop in and put faces and names to voices; but I never heard of anybody busting into a comm center to kill anyone.

[Cypher]

As far as me approaching the vehicle, I have no standing to do that. I'm not a cop I'm not security for these apartments so what happens when I walk up to the car and ask him what they're doing and they tell me to screw off?

Or what happens when I walk up to the car and they are involved in some criminal activity?

Seems to me like the smartest thing to do is call the cops

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Having shot with, been in class with and eating lunch with HCM - I can attest to him being a fine fellow. About the issue - out of my lane. We do have a couple in my neighborhood that drives onto the street. The male parks his car. The female comes and parks her car. They drive off in the male's car for the afternoon. I suspect hanky-panky.

[BehindBlueI's]

Dispatchers around here are city employees. They get PERA and city benefits and are well paid

I know we're wandering far afield, but that's good. Civilian support staff is often paid near poverty wages. Maybe you just got a shitty dispatcher or a decent one on a shitty day. I know ours have access to our mental health network but most don't, and from experience it also sucks to be on that end when a police action shooting occurs, a baby dies, etc. I was on the radio for an officer involved shooting and the feeling of being completely helpless to do anything but wait was pretty shitty.

I completely agree that approaching the car is somewhere between sub-optimal and foolish.

[willie]

A friend is a retired investigator with the criminal division of Naval Intelligence. He drove an unmarked car. The inspection tag on the windshield said classified. Once when qualifying for the first time with a Ruger revolver, he shot a very small group into the groin area of the target. The target was sent up the line where one of his superiors feared that he might be homophobic.

[blues]

A friend is a retired investigator with the criminal division of Naval Intelligence. He drove an unmarked car. The inspection tag on the windshield said classified. Once when qualifying for the first time with a Ruger revolver, he shot a very small group into the groin area of the target. The target was sent up the line where one of his superiors feared that he might be homophobic.

I guess if he shot center of mass he'd be "heartless".

[UNM1136]

Dispatchers around here are city employees. They get PERA and city benefits and are well paid

That does not mean that they think they are well compensated.....

pat

[TGS]

You also don't know what other assets may or may not be in the area and why and how they are deployed as they are.

This.

Cypher, surveillance can run the gamut from 1 car to many, and the tactics involved could have people placed across a geographic area. One time I was a TL for a 3-team operation, and our post was about 20 miles away from where the target was when we started the op.

It comes down to "you don't know what you don't know".

[Cypher]

That does not mean that they think they are well compensated.....

pat

This is totally off topic but city employees around here are notorious for not thinking they're well-paid enough.

I actually had utilities executive tell me once that only being paid $275,000 a year after working for the utilities for 10 years wasn't enough money

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Helson's Adaptation Level Theory. Once you acclimate to a level - you want to change it. If you have a rich life style, you want more. I would be happy to run the NRA for $500,000 and a coupon to Men's Warehouse for a couple of new suits. WLP doesn't think that is enough.

[UNM1136]

This is totally off topic but city employees around here are notorious for not thinking they're well-paid enough.

I actually had utilities executive tell me once that only being paid $275,000 a year after working for the utilities for 10 years wasn't enough money

No one thinks they are paid what they are worth. That is why they bitch and moan. The bottom line is that if they thought they were worth more and thought the transition was worth it they would go elsewhere.

Unrelated, but my daughter, whom I got a cake job for at the local college, didn"t think she was being paid enough while working a student security job while majoring in parental disappointment and minoring in fucking up. She did a number of things to piss off the chain of command and just yesterday got a job paying 50% more than she was making at the college. She is now making the same as the experienced folks that were dispatching her to calls for service who still dispatching me....

pat

[HCM]

As far as me approaching the vehicle, I have no standing to do that. I'm not a cop I'm not security for these apartments so what happens when I walk up to the car and ask him what they're doing and they tell me to screw off?

Or what happens when I walk up to the car and they are involved in some criminal activity?

Seems to me like the smartest thing to do is call the cops

You are correct but people do it regularly.

They also do it then call 911 anyway to “check” which usually results in 911 calling to give us a heads up.

My personal favorite favorite was the dumbass who pulled up next to me, beeped his horn an announced he was “a CHL holder” and asked “what the hell was I doing here ? “ I was parked in front of a wooded vacant lot and he lived up the street. Luckily I was not the eye and was not in sight of the target. I ID myself and advise him next time call 911 as the Sheriffs office knows who we are and why we are here. He starts sputtering some sheep dog nonsense about it being “his” street and wanting to know what’s going on. I tell him I can’t discuss it, finally get rid of him and move a block over. Then a marked constables unit rolls up on my new spot wanting to know who I am. Now the constables are dispatched by the county SO, who know The Who/what/where/ why for DeConfliction, and some of the constables are very shady so we have a quasi Mexican stand off and discussion of the supremacy clause of the US constitution while my partners and the SO show up. Turns out the sheep dog and the constable are buddies. Instead of calling 911, Sheep dog called his buddy directly, asked him to “check me out” and the constable did so on his own with out checking in with SO dispatch. Complete Shitshow.

[Cypher]

You are correct but people do it regularly.

They also do it then call 911 anyway to “check” which usually results in 911 calling to give us a heads up.

I've learned a couple of things working as a security guard, I'm pretty cognizant of the exact limits of my authority and do everything I can to stay inside them. Approaching a private vehicle on private property that I'm not responsible for isn't that. I've also been doing this long enough to understand how dangerous it is to walk up on someone's car. I don't even do it on the clock unless I don't have another option.

I'm also pretty picky about calling 911 unless it's a bonafide emergency. Also based on my experience in security, I try not to call the police unless I can articulate a specific possibly criminal behavior on the part of the person I'm calling in. "It's 3A.M. All the business in this strip mall are closed and I'm watching this guy check the doors on every car in the lot. Can you send a car to check it out?" When I do call in it's on the non emergency number.


My personal favorite favorite was the dumbass who pulled up next to me, beeped his horn an announced he was “a CHL holder” and asked “what the hell was I doing here ? “ I was parked in front of a wooded vacant lot and he lived up the street. Luckily I was not the eye and was not in sight of the target. I ID myself and advise him next time call 911 as the Sheriffs office knows who we are and why we are here. He starts sputtering some sheep dog nonsense about it being “his” street and wanting to know what’s going on. I tell him I can’t discuss it, finally get rid of him and move a block over. Then a marked constables unit rolls up on my new spot wanting to know who I am. Now the constables are dispatched by the county SO, who know The Who/what/where/ why for DeConfliction, and some of the constables are very shady so we have a quasi Mexican stand off and discussion of the supremacy clause of the US constitution while my partners and the SO show up. Turns out the sheep dog and the constable are buddies. Instead of calling 911, Sheep dog called his buddy directly, asked him to “check me out” and the constable did so on his own with out checking in with SO dispatch. Complete Shitshow.

I've been blessed with a very good understanding that you only meddle in other people's business so many times before you walk out your front door and find your car trashed in the parking lot. I also (again) have a very good understanding of how dangerous it is to approach an unknown vehicle. I don't do it if I have any other option.

I'm also very cognizant that if (God forbid) I'm ever involved in a self defense incident the police are going to look into my history. I absolutely do not want a long list of negative interactions with my neighbors in which I'm acting as the self appointed neighborhood watch.

[Stephanie B]

I'm also pretty picky about calling 911 unless it's a bonafide emergency. Also based on my experience in security, I try not to call the police unless I can articulate a specific possibly criminal behavior on the part of the person I'm calling in. "It's 3A.M. All the business in this strip mall are closed and I'm watching this guy check the doors on every car in the lot. Can you send a car to check it out?" When I do call in it's on the non emergency number.
I do have the non-emergency number of my local cop shop in my phone, but if I'm outside of my town, I'll call 9-1-1 if I see something hinkey.

Somebody sitting down at the cul-de-sac won't get a call. That's a place where commercial delivery drivers and the garbage guys will stop for a break. Even the patrol cops would sometimes coop there, until the trees that shielded it from the adjoining off-ramp were removed by the DOT.

[TC215]

Having said that, this seems like an incredibly stupid way to do surveillance on someone to me. Now I realize I have a better understanding of the the lay out for my neighborhood than you all do but there is a veterinary clinic about 100 yards away from where the car was parked that was empty and would have provided multiple shade trees but still with a clear view of our parking lot. That's where I would have set up shop.

Being the only car in a parking lot is about the worst possible way to conduct surveillance.

[gtae07]

Many of the car campers in California are reasonably well-paid, but just can't or don't want to pay $3,000/month for a shared bedroom. Some even have homes in the distant suburbs, but stay in the city during the work week. A recent count in San Francisco turned up ~450 such vehicles.

There is an entire subculture out there kind of glamorizing the life of surreptitiously living in your Honda Element:


The state assembly recently passed a bill requiring cities with over 330,000 people to provide a safe haven overnight parking lot with restrooms. San Diego has one already, Sacramento is planning one...

If I’d been a little wiser in college, I’d have been doing something like this. Surreptitiously convert a van, park it in the parking deck next to the campus gym, use that for showers. Would have saved me a bunch of money. Instead I paid hundreds a month to live in a shed in someone’s back yard, and that was cheap.

[TGS]

If I’d been a little wiser in college, I’d have been doing something like this. Surreptitiously convert a van, park it in the parking deck next to the campus gym, use that for showers. Would have saved me a bunch of money. Instead I paid hundreds a month to live in a shed in someone’s back yard, and that was cheap.

One of my buddies is a sufer dude. Real free spirit type. Before our job he made a bunch of money working for KBR in Baghdad and then lived as a bum on a motorcycle in a southern Baja peninsula town, the quiet type where chickens are on the road, not a resort town. He didn't have a job, just fished for sustenance off his surfboard for a year.

So we are at the field office together for our first tour, and his roommate who holds the lease (also in our unit) moves out before him. So what does ole'vagrant do for the last couple months on our tour? Takes up his old ways, and converts his 1982 Ford surfing van into a camper and lives in the parking lot for a month or two. There was a kitchen, gym and showers in the field office, so it worked out nicely.

We tried to get him to sell his van to the field office for surveillance but he wouldn't do it. He loves that thing.

[RevolverRob]

In Chicago the "non-emergency" number, is for issuing report numbers for issues that don't require an officer to be present, like a non-injury car accident or property crime.

Try calling them to send a unit to inspect something and they tell you straight up, "We cannot dispatch units. Only 911 can." So, you have to call 911 any time you want/need a unit dispatched. Sometimes it's easier to go find a police officer and tell them something than call 911. But then, on average, there is a sworn LEO within 500m of my apartment 24/7.

I had to call 911 to have them send a unit to address a noise complaint down the block last year. And another time to report a downed tree blocking the street. Seems silly, but apparently the non-emergency nature gets conveyed. The time we needed an officer "right now", because we were witnessing a domestic disturbance turn into domestic assault the cops showed up in about 45 seconds. The other times it was 10-15 minutes after calling.

The fun ones were when I came home one afternoon to find a literal DOZEN police cars up and down the street. So officers could serve a warrant on someone in the building next door. And then a few weeks ago, I came home to find a CSI van and three units blocking off one of the corners of the street. Apparently someone started shooting, hit no one or anything of import, and then ditched the gun a couple of blocks over. Shootings in this area are very infrequent, but it does go to show you, it can happen.

[wvincent]

One of my buddies is a sufer dude. Real free spirit type. Before our job he made a bunch of money working for KBR in Baghdad and then lived as a bum on a motorcycle in a southern Baja peninsula town, the quiet type where chickens are on the road, not a resort town. He didn't have a job, just fished for sustenance off his surfboard for a year.

So we are at the field office together for our first tour, and his roommate who holds the lease (also in our unit) moves out before him. So what does ole'vagrant do for the last couple months on our tour? Takes up his old ways, and converts his 1982 Ford surfing van into a camper and lives in the parking lot for a month or two. There was a kitchen, gym and showers in the field office, so it worked out nicely.

We tried to get him to sell his van to the field office for surveillance but he wouldn't do it. He loves that thing.

That is actually super fucking cool!!!
Dudes living the life many just dream about.
And chicks dig surf bums.

[Hambo]

Are you sure it’s the exact same car ? Because if Agency admin is not on top of things fleet managers like to buy the same “unmarked” for everyone, because the only thing more suspicious than a single blue impala is four identical blue impalas.

At least you got blue. I remember a nearby agency bought two colors of police cars: B/W and shit brown. It used to crack me up because there was no way those poor bastards could avoid getting made.

[blues]

At least you got blue. I remember a nearby agency bought two colors of police cars: B/W and shit brown. It used to crack me up because there was no way those poor bastards could avoid getting made.

We used a lot of rentals aside from assigned vehicles. Very little chance of being made (by and large).

[mmc45414]

We used a lot of rentals aside from assigned vehicles. Very little chance of being made (by and large).And if you need to go off road, they are the best, according to P. J. O'Rourke :)

[JDD]

At least you got blue. I remember a nearby agency bought two colors of police cars: B/W and shit brown. It used to crack me up because there was no way those poor bastards could avoid getting made.

My unmarked minivan govy was the best thing ever for surveillance. I had a few sets of magnets for the back, and it is not hard at all to look like any number of innocuous vehicles.

[TC215]

We used a lot of rentals aside from assigned vehicles. Very little chance of being made (by and large).

The Bureau rented us vehicles for a few years with OCDETF money, and it was great. We could take them back and switch them out whenever we needed.

I had an “incident” on surveillance in one of their rentals while attempting to relieve myself in a Bojangle’s cup. That vehicle got taken back pretty quick. ;)

[mmc45414]

I had an “incident” on surveillance in one of their rentals while attempting to relieve myself in a Bojangle’s cup.
We had a small boat that had no cabin. When newbies would ask where to go to the bathroom We would explain that there was a marine toilet under the middle seat cushion. When they would get to the point of needing the "marine toilet" they would lift the seat and find an old plastic cup from McDonalds. Hilarity would ensue... :)

[BehindBlueI's]

We had a small boat that had no cabin. When newbies would ask where to go to the bathroom We would explain that there was a marine toilet under the middle seat cushion. When they would get to the point of needing the "marine toilet" they would lift the seat and find an old plastic cup from McDonalds. Hilarity would ensue... :)

When you're on a boat isn't the entirety of the perimeter of the boat the toilet?

[Cypher]

Are you sure it’s the exact same car ? Because if Agency admin is not on top of things fleet managers like to buy the same “unmarked” for everyone, because the only thing more suspicious than a single blue impala is four identical blue impalas.


It's probably too much to ask for but I would hope that an American police agency would buy/lease/rent American vehicles.

[Cypher]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I thought I already mentioned it but the reason I said what I said above is because the vehicle in question was a late model Nissan

[HCM]

My unmarked minivan govy was the best thing ever for surveillance. I had a few sets of magnets for the back, and it is not hard at all to look like any number of innocuous vehicles.

Mini vans are the best for surveillance.

I had a dude try to sell me and four other dudes in full raid gear dope when we stopped at a ight in a green dodge caravan. #RICHMONDCA (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=RICHMONDCA)

[HCM]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I thought I already mentioned it but the reason I said what I said above is because the vehicle in question was a late model Nissan

Many task forces use seizure vehicles and leased vehicle specifically to avoid domestic fleet type vehicles.

[0ddl0t]

Mini vans are the best for surveillance.

I had a dude try to sell me and four other dudes in full raid gear dope when we stopped at a ight in a green dodge caravan. #RICHMONDCA (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=RICHMONDCA)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxEKRI5oxOk

[mmc45414]

When you're on a boat isn't the entirety of the perimeter of the boat the toilet?
This is largely gender dependent. It may also vary based on local laws and the proximity of local law enforcement.

[Cypher]

This is largely gender dependent. It may also vary based on local laws and the proximity of local law enforcement.

Well if the boat is full of cops that answers the proximity question doesn't it?

[HCM]

It's probably too much to ask for but I would hope that an American police agency would buy/lease/rent American vehicles.

For marked units, sure. Though is a Tahoe made in Mexico a more “American” vehicle than a Tundra made in San Antonio TX ?

For unmarked undercover vehicles they need to buy what people actually drive. If you did not think your suspicious vehicle was a cop car because it was a Nissan that is a pretty clear indication they SHOULD be buying / leasing brands other than the big 3 US automakers for UC vehicles.

[Totem Polar]

Once when qualifying for the first time with a Ruger revolver, he shot a very small group into the groin area of the target. The target was sent up the line where one of his superiors feared that he might be homophobic.

Sounds to me like he’s cockeyed...

[vcdgrips]

Gearqueer

"If it’s a white guy in his thirties with a beard I’d say chances are 99.99%." (that the person in the car is a LEO)?

What are the chances if its a black guy with a beard in his 30s?

How about a latino?

Asian?

Female?

What about your training and experience has you qualified to even joke about it?

[TC215]

Gearqueer

"If it’s a white guy in his thirties with a beard I’d say chances are 99.99%." (that the person in the car is a LEO)?

What are the chances if its a black guy with a beard in his 30s?

How about a latino?

Asian?

Female?

What about your training and experience has you qualified to even joke about it?

He's not far off.

I've had to tell one guy in my unit, who is probably our worst at surveillance, multiple times that everyone knows that two white guys with beards backed into a parking space in a minivan is the police.

We had a female in our unit for a while, and it was great for surveillance because pairing a male with a female is far less suspicious to bad guys.

[blues]

He's not far off.

I've had to tell one guy in my unit, who is probably our worst at surveillance, multiple times that everyone knows that two white guys with beards backed into a parking space in a minivan is the police.

We had a female in our unit for a while, and it was great for surveillance because pairing a male with a female is far less suspicious to bad guys.

It's sexist, though, not to require that she shave her beard as well. Goose / gander...

;)

[TGS]

It's probably too much to ask for but I would hope that an American police agency would buy/lease/rent American vehicles.

There's actually rules about it for federal agencies, and its a PITA. It's artificial protectionism that keeps us in shitty vehicles that break down more than the competition. As HCM pointed out, many foreign vehicles are actually more American than "our" own brands.

Even with those rules, we nabbed ourselves a few KIAs, a Mitsubishi, and a Fiat. The minivans we bought from US brands because they're innocuous enough regardless.

[Crazy Dane]

If this had been in the city I work in, after 15 minutes or so someone would have called in a "subject unconscious, unknown medical" . When we show up in the big red truck it really busts up their surveillance op. I have done this more than once. The LEO dispatchers and the FD dispatchers do not play well with each other so no one knows what the other is doing and sometimes puts us in a bad spot when we really need a LEO to show up.

[blues]

If this had been in the city I work in, after 15 minutes or so someone would have called in a "subject unconscious, unknown medical" . When we show up in the big red truck it really busts up their surveillance op. I have done this more than once. The LEO dispatchers and the FD dispatchers do not play well with each other so no one knows what the other is doing and sometimes puts us in a bad spot when we really need a LEO to show up.

That's sad to hear, since we both live in the same community and I just qualified this morning with the sheriff's department. They should make an effort to help avoid such issues.

[Crazy Dane]

That's sad to hear, since we both live in the same community and I just qualified this morning with the sheriff's department. They should make an effort to help avoid such issues.

Its actually the big liberal city to our northeast. T-county is good on the working together.

[blues]

Its actually the big liberal city to our northeast. T-county is good on the working together.

Well, I'm relieved to hear that, F. Thanks for clarifying. :cool:

[UNM1136]

When you're on a boat isn't the entirety of the perimeter of the boat the toilet?

Took my young son camping for the first time when he was four or five. He asked where the potty was any my wife heard me tell him "you are a young man, the world is your potty". Then in church during the Children's Lesson he got to stand up and tell the congregation that he was thankful he got to "go camping and poop in a hole".

pat

[HCM]

He's not far off.

I've had to tell one guy in my unit, who is probably our worst at surveillance, multiple times that everyone knows that two white guys with beards backed into a parking space in a minivan is the police.

We had a female in our unit for a while, and it was great for surveillance because pairing a male with a female is far less suspicious to bad guys.

Some mother fuckers ain’t got no creep to them.

[TGS]

I've had to tell one guy in my unit, who is probably our worst at surveillance, multiple times that everyone knows that two white guys with beards backed into a parking space in a minivan is the police.


Not if you rip open each others shirts and squirt some boston crème filling on one of yall's chin. Totally explains the seats being down and camera setup with a minivan pulled into an industrial lot late at night...

Just saying. Not that I ever had to come up with a cover story when the bruisers working the target looked like they were coming over and I asked my best friend how far he was willing to go for the case with boston crème filling on my finger and some really awkwardly long direct eye contact....

[BehindBlueI's]

Some mother fuckers ain’t got no creep to them.

I think I've told the longer version of this story in Roll Call stories but my former partner and I were watching a c-store due to a prolific serial robber who was hitting the same places twice. We were in a beat-the-fuck-up jelly bean Taurus with zero emergency equipment and a normal plate. We were alternating between a Dairy Queen parking lot and a dark neighborhood street. We were confronted by a resident of the street one night but didn't think to much of it. On the 3rd night after we were done my partner decided to go in the store to buy something before we left. The clerk thanked us for watching his store the last 3 days...

I did a time card in covert and hated it. I didn't mind helping them as the quick response unit or chase car, but actually being the surveillance was not for me.

[Lester Polfus]

Not if you rip open each others shirts and squirt some boston crème filling on one of yall's chin. Totally explains the seats being down and camera setup with a minivan pulled into an industrial lot late at night...

Just saying. Not that I ever had to come up with a cover story when the bruisers working the target looked like they were coming over and I asked my best friend how far he was willing to go for the case with boston crème filling on my finger and some really awkwardly long direct eye contact....

Man, that would have been awkward if his response had been "I thought you were never going to ask!"

As an aside, when I was solo in a vehicle, I would always scooch over into the passenger seat. A dude sitting behind the wheel is suspicious. A single person in the passenger seat is waiting for the driver.

[TC215]

Not if you rip open each others shirts and squirt some boston crème filling on one of yall's chin. Totally explains the seats being down and camera setup with a minivan pulled into an industrial lot late at night...

Just saying. Not that I ever had to come up with a cover story when the bruisers working the target looked like they were coming over and I asked my best friend how far he was willing to go for the case with boston crème filling on my finger and some really awkwardly long direct eye contact....

Several years ago, I was on a surveillance operation with a federal agency, and was partnered up in a vehicle with a female special agent. I screwed up and ended up stuck on a dead-end street, and the bad guy walked by us. The SA looked at me, and for half a second, I thought she was going to kiss me. Instead, she began screaming at me and hitting me. The bad guy totally bought it and thought he walked up on a domestic...it probably helped that the fear/surprise in my eyes was totally real.

[nycnoob]

I saw this on facebook.

It is certainly plausible that something like this happened on wase