View Full Version : Marshals Approve Deltapoint
Tokarev
06-27-2019, 07:33 AM
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/06/u-s-marshals-service-select-leupold-deltapoint-pro-for-duty-firearms/#axzz5s3FcuFVJ
LittleLebowski
06-27-2019, 08:06 AM
They don't read PF?!
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/06/u-s-marshals-service-select-leupold-deltapoint-pro-for-duty-firearms/#axzz5s3FcuFVJ
They already have personally owned RMRs and DPP in service.
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/06/u-s-marshals-service-select-leupold-deltapoint-pro-for-duty-firearms/#axzz5s3FcuFVJ
The real question is who did they pick as their battery supplier? :p
Has this been discussed?
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/06/u-s-marshals-service-select-leupold-deltapoint-pro-for-duty-firearms/#ixzz5sBCfopS4
Leupold & Stevens, Inc., is proud to announce that the United States Marshals Service has selected the Leupold DeltaPoint Pro, paired with Dawson Precision sights, for its duty firearms. The project is the result of a collaboration between Leupold and Dawson Precision.
It says “duty firearms.” No mention if every DUSM is getting one or just specialized units. Would be pretty big news if everyone is assigned an RDS.
Yes, in the Hardware section:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?37257-Marshals-Approve-Deltapoint
TC215
06-28-2019, 04:36 PM
They've been authorized to use Pistol RDS' for a while (personal purchase). Several of the DUSM's at our local office use RMR's. Two of them were in a shooting in my jurisdiction with RMR-equipped guns.
farscott
06-28-2019, 05:06 PM
I find the first sentence of the below interesting. Is "STI" the pistol company that Dave Dawson has returned to in an effort to turn around? Or does is mean something else?
“We are honored to contribute alongside Leupold to the United States Marshals Service STI SRA Pistol project,” said Dave Dawson, President and CEO of Dawson Precision, Inc. “And I would like to thank both for providing us the opportunity to work with the Marshals. We look forward to further developing our relationship with Leupold and are excited about the future partnership possibilities in the competition and tactical arenas.”
https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/264485-dave-dawson/
STI and I have had a relationship for over 25 years, some of you know the story. I wouldn’t be where I am without them. Westwind Investors, the parent company of STI, is committed to making STI the premier firearms manufacturer in the world and bringing the joy of shooting to people everywhere. Nate Horvath, STI’s CEO, and I are confident that I can help them achieve that goal. That is why I am now the Senior Director of Operational Excellence. That’s a fancy title, but it basically means “hang on to your STI hat, cause there’s some cool stuff comin’.
I have not sold or reduced my role at Dawson Precision in any way. We will continue to grow and improve at the same pace thanks to our awesome team.
On behalf of Dawson Precision and STI, I want to thank all of you, our loyal customers! We could not have done this without you.
-Dave Dawson
jnc36rcpd
06-28-2019, 07:36 PM
The LEO/mil sales director of STI posted on my "other" usual forum that the USMS Special Operations Group has been T&E'ing their weapons.
Trooper224
06-29-2019, 06:39 PM
One of the DUSM's at my site is on SOG. A couple of weeks ago, he was showing me has STI 2011 mounted with an RMR. It's his backup for SOG activities, while he has a Glock mounted with a dot for routine work.
I wonder if this will be the upgraded optic. I emailed them a question of when it would be available but never received a reply.
I've my doubts if there ever will be an official acknowledgement.
It doesn’t surprise me that some specialized units may have them.
I think it will be big news when the first agency with 3000+ agents (or DUSMs) issues them to every agent. Or at least give every agent the option of being issued one.
I’m not concerned with who picks what, but I am interested in the general speed at which agencies will move to RDSs.
Wayne Dobbs
07-02-2019, 04:09 PM
And the total approved is ~100 for their SOG agents. This is not a service wide adoption, which is currently being studied and considered.
And the total approved is ~100 for their SOG agents. This is not a service wide adoption, which is currently being studied and considered.
No. But personLly owned Pistol RDS are approved service wide for DUSMs.
It doesn’t surprise me that some specialized units may have them.
I think it will be big news when the first agency with 3000+ agents (or DUSMs) issues them to every agent. Or at least give every agent the option of being issued one.
I’m not concerned with who picks what, but I am interested in the general speed at which agencies will move to RDSs.
These particular optics are being issued to the SOG team members but all USMS Deputies have had the option for personal MRDS on duty handguns for the past year or two.
Along those lines can we get this merged with the other USMS Delta Point Pro thread in the hardware section. LittleLebowski
I've my doubts if there ever will be an official acknowledgement.
So how would a person know when they are available and to know you are getting the upgraded model?
I've no clue. I've three units here, would love to upgrade preemptively but I doubt Leupold is going to announce anything. My guess that at some point all newly produced units will come with new guts, and all returned units will get an upgrade but without a fanfare. From what I've seen on GJM units, the upgrade is easy to spot.
I am thinking that by Sept/October, new and repaired units will have the latest internals. This is what the new board looks like.
39709
ranger
07-04-2019, 09:38 AM
With the "upgrade", is the DPP now a viable option? Thanks
Clark Jackson
07-06-2019, 01:32 PM
No. But personLly owned Pistol RDS are approved service wide for DUSMs.
Interesting. Any idea why they went with DPP; what kind of slide they can use (MOS or milled); and what model BUIS are they running?
Interesting. Any idea why they went with DPP; what kind of slide they can use (MOS or milled); and what model BUIS are they running?
The DPPs in the article are on SOG (USMS SWAT) issued STI 2011’s. No idea if they are milled or using STIs HOST system. SOG is a pretty small organization.
Speculating here but but like EOtechs, if you are using an RDS on short term, proactive missions you can just throw in fresh batteries before every mission and not worry about battery life. Trijicon s release of the SRO clearly illustrates the advantages of the DPPs bigger window over the RMR in terms of pure performance. This mirrors GJMs comments about the DPP being a superior “gaming optic.”
The regular deputies I have seen with RDS have had a mix of DPP and RMR on Glocks. Milled slides are an option but I’m not up on the details.
I am thinking that by Sept/October, new and repaired units will have the latest internals. This is what the new board looks like.
39709
Whats the battery life on the upgraded units when the dot is left on the brightness appropriate for defensive use?
Whats the battery life on the upgraded units when the dot is left on the brightness appropriate for defensive use?
I don’t know, but a feature of the DeltaPoint Pro is it goes to sleep after five minutes without motion, to extend battery life. The Pro is also the easiest red dot I have looked at, to change the battery.
I don’t know, but a feature of the DeltaPoint Pro is it goes to sleep after five minutes without motion, to extend battery life. The Pro is also the easiest red dot I have looked at, to change the battery.
Ok thanks GJM. Im seem to recall battery life was an issue in the original issue. It will be interesting to follow your experiences with this upgraded unit.
CDFIII
07-07-2019, 09:52 AM
The DPPs in the article are on SOG (USMS SWAT) issued STI 2011’s. No idea if they are milled or using STIs HOST system. SOG is a pretty small organization.
Speculating here but but like EOtechs, if you are using an RDS on short term, proactive missions you can just throw in fresh batteries before every mission and not worry about battery life. Trijicon s release of the SRO clearly illustrates the advantages of the DPPs bigger window over the RMR in terms of pure performance. This mirrors GJMs comments about the DPP being a superior “gaming optic.”
The regular deputies I have seen with RDS have had a mix of DPP and RMR on Glocks. Milled slides are an option but I’m not up on the details.
The new STI guns have a “Duo” host cut. Meaning that it is a direct mill cut for the DPP and a plate system for using the RMR’s. It’s a pretty neat system. It also includes a Dawson rear sight that will mount directly to the DPP.
Up1911Fan
07-08-2019, 07:20 PM
Anyone know what 2011's they use?
Sigfan26
07-08-2019, 07:40 PM
Anyone know what 2011's they use?
Guessing STI
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Up1911Fan
07-08-2019, 07:43 PM
Guessing STI
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Right, I gathered that much from it being stated " STI 2011s" lol. Was curious if anyone knew what STI?
OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
07-08-2019, 08:11 PM
Right, I gathered that much from it being stated " STI 2011s" lol. Was curious if anyone knew what STI?
Reached out to a TF DUSM I shoot w/ & he said the last time he was training w/ SOG @ Camp Beauregard he *thought* it was DVC-P's they were using, not 100% but he's an STI toter so 'prolly accurate.
CDFIII
07-09-2019, 11:16 AM
39940
39941
They chose the STI STACCATO P Duo. It’s a 4.15” commander size gun in 9mm. The top photo is my personal Staccato P with RMR06 and the bottom picture is an issued gun from @buckp79 Instagram page. He is STI’s LE contact.
LittleLebowski
08-26-2019, 05:35 PM
I can’t believe they picked this.
https://www.guns.com/news/2019/07/24/exclusive-u-s-marshals-special-operations-group-adopts-sti-2011-pistols
WobblyPossum
08-26-2019, 05:51 PM
P&S recently had an episode about STI and the STI employee discussed the SOG testing and selection a little bit. It was an interesting episode. Definitely made me want to put a few rounds through a Staccato P just to see if they’re all they’re cracked up to be.
Redhat
08-26-2019, 06:21 PM
I can’t believe they picked this.
https://www.guns.com/news/2019/07/24/exclusive-u-s-marshals-special-operations-group-adopts-sti-2011-pistols
What would Tommy Lee Jones think?
45dotACP
08-26-2019, 07:11 PM
P&S recently had an episode about STI and the STI employee discussed the SOG testing and selection a little bit. It was an interesting episode. Definitely made me want to put a few rounds through a Staccato P just to see if they’re all they’re cracked up to be.One of their tactical brand ambassadors Matt Little (greybeard actual) has a review on his IG. He reports 4,000 rounds without cleaning it and without problems.
He's a no joke badass. He's been on Asian Jedis podcast before and a few others. A USPSA M class guy, special forces guy, retired SWAT guy for a large PD.
Of course YMMV
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I can’t believe they picked this.
https://www.guns.com/news/2019/07/24/exclusive-u-s-marshals-special-operations-group-adopts-sti-2011-pistols
Why not ?
The USMS have always done weird stuff with firearms choices and training.
Their SOG (their version of SWAT) have issued and carried S&W 4505’s, 1911’s Ofc the FBI SA PRO contract etc.
STI has made changes in both their products and product line, particularly magazines, to gear it towards LE Duty use. They are also now approved for some LAPD units as well though I believe that is via their personally owned 1911 program.
ragnar_d
08-26-2019, 09:05 PM
What would Tommy Lee Jones think?
TLJ only offered a quick response as the firearm in question was not a nickel plated Taurus . . . :D
https://media.giphy.com/media/lyqfLDqMTFhU4/giphy.gif
P&S recently had an episode about STI and the STI employee discussed the SOG testing and selection a little bit. It was an interesting episode. Definitely made me want to put a few rounds through a Staccato P just to see if they’re all they’re cracked up to be.
I just listened to that one at the office today. I'm certainly intrigued and wouldn't mind shooting one . . . I just don't see having one of my own anytime soon due to not having $2500 kicking around.
I can’t believe they picked this.
https://www.guns.com/news/2019/07/24/exclusive-u-s-marshals-special-operations-group-adopts-sti-2011-pistols
Believe it brother.
It's not a bad choice. Just expensive.
Bumping this thread to note the USMS is now issuing RMR equipped G17s to new DUSMs going through FLETC and will be / are transitioning the rest of the USMS.
Just bumping this to reflect the USMS is now issuing RMR equipped G17s to new DUSMs at FLETC and will be transitioning the rest of USMS to RMR equipped G17s as their issued duty pistol. AFAIK their POW policy and 2011s for SOG will all remain.
WobblyPossum
04-15-2022, 09:37 AM
Just bumping this to reflect the USMS is now issuing RMR equipped G17s to new DUSMs at FLETC and will be transitioning the rest of USMS to RMR equipped G17s as their issued duty pistol. AFAIK their POW policy and 2011s for SOG will all remain.
So now ICE and USMS are starting basic academy candidates with RDS equipped duty pistols. Anyone else on the federal side make this standard practice yet? I heard a rumor that FBI was planning to but don’t know what the actual status is.
Biggy
04-15-2022, 10:27 AM
I would be surprised if we don't see closed emitter dot pistol sights from Leupold and Trijicon between now and SHOT 23 or introduced at SHOT 23.
I would be surprised if we don't see closed emitter dot pistol sights from Leupold and Trijicon between now and SHOT 23 or introduced at SHOT 23.
Leupold already introduced a closed emitter. 👌
Biggy
04-15-2022, 11:00 AM
Leupold already introduced a closed emitter. 👌
You're right, I forgot about the Delta Point Micro. I was thinking more along the lines of a traditional sized one like the ACRO, Holosun 509 or the Steiner.
https://www.leupold.com/deltapoint-micro-glock
So now ICE and USMS are starting basic academy candidates with RDS equipped duty pistols. Anyone else on the federal side make this standard practice yet? I heard a rumor that FBI was planning to but don’t know what the actual status is.
FBI and USSS are working on it. It will happen but timeline is TBD.
FBI local /regional SWAT and FIs are currently using the G19M MOS with type 2 RMRs. Last I heard was they were using C&H plates. It’s not clear of the general agent population will get MOS or an optic specific cut.
Tokarev
04-15-2022, 12:01 PM
I would be surprised if we don't see closed emitter dot pistol sights from Leupold and Trijicon between now and SHOT 23 or introduced at SHOT 23.Closed emitters are now available from:
Aimpoint (started this trend, I believe, with the ACRO P1)
Steiner
SiG
Holosun
Anyone I'm missing?
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Tokarev
04-15-2022, 12:04 PM
Just bumping this to reflect the USMS is now issuing RMR equipped G17s to new DUSMs at FLETC and will be transitioning the rest of USMS to RMR equipped G17s as their issued duty pistol. AFAIK their POW policy and 2011s for SOG will all remain.It is interesting that the RMR is being used as a general issue optic. Have they no concern over employees changing their own batteries and over/under tightening screws and failing to confirm some sort of zero after the change?
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It is interesting that the RMR is being used as a general issue optic. Have they no concern over employees changing their own batteries and over/under tightening screws and failing to confirm some sort of zero after the change?
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Durability seems to drive both the RMR and closed emitter choices.
Not sure how the USMS are doing it or have been doing it with POWs.
The BU will have FIs or SWAT TLs change batteries.
We are allowing end users to change Romeo1PRO batteries since dismounting the sight is not required but RMRs and RomeoZeros are supposed to have batteries swapped by an FI or armorer.
Zero can be rough checked via co-witness, though live confirmation is preferable.
I would be surprised if we don't see closed emitter dot pistol sights from Leupold and Trijicon between now and SHOT 23 or introduced at SHOT 23.
The issue is do you compromise the integrity of the closed emitter optic to keep your proprietary foot print (like SIG’s half-assing of the Romeo2) or do you embrace the closed emitter via a new side bolt footprint of your own ? Or adopt the ACRO footprint ?
Tokarev
04-15-2022, 01:21 PM
Durability seems to drive both the RMR and closed emitter choices.
Not sure how the USMS are doing it or have been doing it with POWs.
The BU will have FIs or SWAT TLs change batteries.
We are allowing end users to change Romeo1PRO batteries since dismounting the sight is not required but RMRs and RomeoZeros are supposed to have batteries swapped by an FI or armorer.
Zero can be rough checked via co-witness, though live confirmation is preferable.The RMR is really the yardstick. For good reason since it is really the first thing to be "seriously" attached to a duty slide.
But in today's market I think I'd be hard pressed to choose it as a departmental optic. Especially a big department where the officer and FI may only see each other a few times a year.
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TC215
04-15-2022, 03:08 PM
So now ICE and USMS are starting basic academy candidates with RDS equipped duty pistols. Anyone else on the federal side make this standard practice yet? I heard a rumor that FBI was planning to but don’t know what the actual status is.
FBI and USSS are working on it. It will happen but timeline is TBD.
FBI local /regional SWAT and FIs are currently using the G19M MOS with type 2 RMRs. Last I heard was they were using C&H plates. It’s not clear of the general agent population will get MOS or an optic specific cut.
FBI will begin issuing new agents RDS equipped 19M MOS guns this year. I heard a couple days ago that they’re one or two classes away. They had to exhaust the existing supply of the old 19M’s first.
SWAT is using 3.25 RMR’s. I believe the general agent population will be using a combination of RMR’s and ACRO’s, depending on what’s available.
I’m guessing the “regular” agents will be getting the 19M MOS (not a specific optic cut), as that’s what is available for POW purchase and the plan to issue multiple types of optics.
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