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View Full Version : Federal Chamion v. Remington UMC v. American Eagle



Brutane
04-01-2012, 11:53 AM
Ok another newbie question:

I have purchased and shot all three of these cheap ammo variants in my Glock 19 and 23. I can't really tell the difference but I'm asking which you think is the better of these since I can get all three for basically the same price at the local Wal-Mart.

Thanks.

Reasons why would be appreciated too.

jetfire
04-01-2012, 12:01 PM
I've had far more problems with Remington UMC than I have with American Eagle or Federal Champion. I know there are a couple of shooters that have had issues with Federal Champion as well, but my personal experience with it has been very positive.

Suvorov
04-01-2012, 12:10 PM
Ok another newbie question:

I have purchased and shot all three of these cheap ammo variants in my Glock 19 and 23. I can't really tell the difference but I'm asking which you think is the better of these since I can get all three for basically the same price at the local Wal-Mart.

Thanks.

Reasons why would be appreciated too.

I have fired thousands of each type and have never seen any appreciable difference and they have always gone bang when I pull the trigger. Barring the once in a while QC screw up, if your gun won't cycle one of these budget US ammo brand, then the problem lays in your gun.

In choosing between these, I'd first go with whatever is cheaper and next base it on what box I like best.

Maybe someone here knows the difference between Federal Champion and Federal Eagle other than the box since they are both ATK budget brands.

jetfire
04-01-2012, 12:16 PM
At least in .45 ACP, American Eagle uses large pistol primers and Federal Champion uses small primers.

In 9mm, I've had batches of Federal Champion that use plated bullets instead of jacketed bullets.

JV_
04-01-2012, 12:36 PM
In 9mm, I've had batches of Federal Champion that use plated bullets instead of jacketed bullets.I thought it always had plated bullets.

jetfire
04-01-2012, 12:47 PM
I assume that all the Fed Champ I shoot in 9mm has plated bullets, but since I've never bothered to check anything other than the two batches that I did, it might not.

MikeyC
04-01-2012, 01:04 PM
The 500 or so rounds of Federal Champion I bought from Wally World didn't have plated bullets. My local range magnet tests everything. I did notice a drop off in accuracy at 20 yds. I used to use UMC exclusively. I'll still shoot the yellow box UMC when I find it, but the green box put on so many sparklers with a poor powder mix I quit using it. If you can space your purchasing out you can almost always find better deals online even with shipping.

vaglocker
04-01-2012, 01:21 PM
I've put at least 8-10 thousand Rem UMCs through a mixture of guns with no issues

JV_
04-01-2012, 02:20 PM
The 500 or so rounds of Federal Champion I bought from Wally World didn't have plated bullets. My local range magnet tests everything.Why does the magnet test matter? Whether it's copper jacketed, or copper plated, it should react similarly - right?

Joe Mamma
04-01-2012, 02:49 PM
I'd avoid Remington. I've noticed more quality issues with Remington than either of the other two.

Joe Mamma

MikeyC
04-01-2012, 04:35 PM
When you said "plated" I was thinking mild steel

JV_
04-01-2012, 04:42 PM
When you said "plated" I was thinking mild steelI see; we're talking about a copper plating over a lead bullet, rather than the bi-metal stuff that's common with Russian ammo (a copper plating over a steel jacket).

orionz06
04-01-2012, 05:49 PM
UMC ammo from time to time will have all sorts of weird shit in it. I end up with metal flakes sticking in the target when shot from 5 yards in.

Tamara
04-01-2012, 07:27 PM
At least in .45 ACP, American Eagle uses large pistol primers and Federal Champion uses small primers.

All the crystal balls I've consulted state that small pistol primers in .45's is the wave of the future; something to do with more overseas contracting of budget ammo to former East Bloc nations. I do not know if this is true, but if so, it makes me sad. :(

Up1911Fan
04-01-2012, 08:25 PM
I shoot a lot of Champion because it's cheap, however in the 4,500+ rounds i've put through my Gen4 G26, the only problems i've had have been with Champion ( about 3,000 of the 4,500). With Champion i've had 4 failures to feed, i'm assuming they were under-loaded rounds without enough force to fully cycle the gun.

Dennis1209
04-01-2012, 09:08 PM
Both my .45 Kimber's run great on Remington UMC and American Eagle. They don't like the Federal at all with a 20% FTF and/or FTE issue. Maybe I got a bad batch because the casing rims were all rough to the touch? Nice time to find that out during an IDPA match! That was the only ammo Wal-Mart had at the time and I was getting low so I bought the only two boxes they had. I won't be buying Federal again in .45 ammo.

Chuck Haggard
04-01-2012, 11:58 PM
UMC ammo from time to time will have all sorts of weird shit in it. I end up with metal flakes sticking in the target when shot from 5 yards in.

So, do they charge more for the exclusive CQB "spray of death"™ feature, or is that just included as a freebie?


Maybe it's ammo in the budget line because this isn't the actual "spray of death"™, it's more like the "shoot ur eye out kid" feature.


On a serious note; We have burned up almost half a million rounds of 124gr AE so far at work, either we got an extra good batch or this is good ammo, no issues noted so far.

LSP972
04-10-2012, 07:43 AM
All the crystal balls I've consulted state that small pistol primers in .45's is the wave of the future; something to do with more overseas contracting of budget ammo to former East Bloc nations. I do not know if this is true, but if so, it makes me sad. :(

Actually, its a budget thing. ATK has been trying to push this down everybody's throat, but so far Remington and Winchester have resisted. Let us hope (reloaders, anyway) that this resistance continues.

Here's the deal... and I know this via a highly-placed contact within ATK.

Today's propellant "technology" means that .45ACP no longer needs a large pistol primer. Back in the early days of smokeless powder and corrosive priming, it definitely did.

ATK began, a few years ago, making Federal-headstamped ammunition at the CCI plant in Lewiston Idaho. That facility was not being fully utilized, and with the main Federal plant in Anoka MN running full blast 24/7, it was a sound management decision. The bunter tooling used at the Lewiston plant leaves a curious, and very distinctive, signature... the case head is slightly concave around the primer pocket. You'll see this on the Federal Champion ammunition in the maroon box; American Eagle is made in Anoka.

At any rate, the story I got is that the engineers at CCI/Lewiston developed the SP (small pistol primer)-loaded .45 initially for the aluminum Blazer line, and adapted it to the brass-cased ammunition. While the cost difference between a small and large pistol primer is certainly negligible, when you're talking tens of millions of cartridges produced it can indeed add up.

Anyway... according to my contact, and some forwarded e-mails between him and the boffins, its entirely viable and has no downside... except to reloaders. As you might expect, we (reloaders) are very near the bottom of their list of concerns.

Keeping in mind that this information is about 8 months old, my guy told me that the plan is to make the el cheapo stuff (Champion) with SP and the rest with LP until/if such time as the other big makers "get on board" with the SP concept in toto. ATK markets American Eagle heavily to LE as training ammunition. The Champion line is aimed toward the big box retailers and we citizen hoi polloi.

FWIW, last year I was seeing quite a bit of this stuff in my range pick-ups, but not nearly so much lately. If you reload .45 you really need to be vigilant regarding this, because trust me when I tell you that an SP .45 case will ruin your day when you're rocking and rolling with your progressive press.

.

jetfire
04-10-2012, 12:27 PM
Speaking of which, I've seen some batches of American Eagle that are small-primer loaded as well.

DocGKR
04-11-2012, 12:33 AM
I've watched several hundred thousand rounds of Fed AE and Speer Lawman Training go downrange of late in 9 mm, .40, .45 ACP with nary a problem...

DanH
04-11-2012, 02:39 AM
I've watched several hundred thousand rounds of Fed AE and Speer Lawman Training go downrange of late in 9 mm, .40, .45 ACP with nary a problem...

.... I want your job :p