Exodus from high tax states just beginning

[LittleLebowski]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/high-tax-state-exodus-accelerate


The cap on state and local tax (SALT) deductions has already begun to drive Opens a New Window. some residents away from high-tax Opens a New Window. states like New York and New Jersey, but experts say that trend is only going to intensify.

“It took a few months for taxpayers to realize the dollar implications – until they actually filed their tax returns this year,” Alan Goldenberg, a principal at Friedman LLP, told FOX Business. “It quantified the impact of the loss of the SALT deduction when people saw it in front of their eyes on their tax return.”

[HCountyGuy]

Once in their new location, they’ll vote in the sort of jackwagons who helped cause the tax hikes in their old location. Rinse and repeat.

[NH Shooter]

Once in their new location, they’ll vote in the sort of jackwagons who helped cause the tax hikes in their old location. Rinse and repeat.

The Massholes who move to NH for the lower cost of living do precisely that.

[CS Tactical]

Once in their new location, they’ll vote in the sort of jackwagons who helped cause the tax hikes in their old location. Rinse and repeat.

That's not the case for every person moving from California :)

[CWM11B]

Once in their new location, they’ll vote in the sort of jackwagons who helped cause the tax hikes in their old location. Rinse and repeat.

This very thing is crushing NC, and will continue throughout the entire SE.

[Bart Carter]

That's not the case for every person moving from California :)

We need the right type of people to move to Nevada. Come yourself or send like-minded individuals. :p

[CS Tactical]

We need the right type of people to move to Nevada. Come yourself or send like-minded individuals. :p

I lived in Minden for awhile, it didn't work out at that time :(

[Kyle Reese]

This very thing is crushing NC, and will continue throughout the entire SE.Virginia too.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[luckyman]

We need the right type of people to move to Nevada. Come yourself or send like-minded individuals. :p

Hoping to buy a house in Sparks in 3 months...

[ranger]

This very thing is crushing NC, and will continue throughout the entire SE.

Georgia is doomed.

[BigDaddy]

Come July the Interstates in Illinois will be jammed bumper to bumper as people flee this monstrosity of a State. I looked at a new subdivision in Wisconsin last month. The saleswoman told me that she had 16 potential buyers take a look at the model homes. Every single one of them was from Illinois.

[OlongJohnson]

Shitty mod Opens a New Window. needs to edit quote in OP.

[0ddl0t]

I don't know about "just beginning" -- I remember the exodus after congress passed the Pension Source Tax Act of 1996. Before that California could tax its retirees who left the state. Afterwards, CA retirees fled to Nevada, Texas, and Florida (states with 0 tax on pensions). Today about 1 in 5 Calpers beneficiaries lives out of state.

In the last 25 years, 3.5 million more Californians have left the state than other Americans have come to California. We would have lost population except we have so many foreign born residents (28% - 11 million).

[pooty]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgPdVeYUwAAzkhw.jpg

[SeriousStudent]

I live in a county that neighbors Dallas, it is one of the fastest growing areas in the US. Toyota recently relocated here. Three California families bought houses in my neighborhood as a result.

Two of the families are absolutely wonderful people. They have wholeheartedly adopted their new state, and tell me they have just been overwhelmed by the warm greeting they have received. They're just awesome folks, and everyone loves them. :)

The third couple is truly a stereotype. I'm not kidding, it's literally like every bad joke about recent arrivals rolled into one package. Prius in the driveway, political signs in the yard, campaigning against vaccinations in the local schools, etc.

When I was engaged in an involuntary conversation two months ago, Roy remarked how resistant Texans are to change. I mentioned to him "It's because we don't have anywhere else to go. And we tend to get annoyed when provoked."

I got a blank look. I told him he might want to look up what happened about 180 years ago when a bunch of Texans, with the help of some friends from Tennessee and Virginia, decided they had been pushed far enough. It might be instructive for him and his friends to consider.

He rolled his eyes and said "Oh yeah, history".

I told him that probably one of the most horrible things that could happen to this country would be his progressive friends provoking Texas past a tipping point. That it would be a calamity of Biblical proportions, that would be a terrible loss for all involved. And that we might not survive as a nation or even a people. That there would be no winners at all in that scenario, and probably not even many survivors.

He just shrugged, and said "Yeah, folks like you just stay buried in the past."

I truly fear people like Roy. He has enough brains to be dangerous, but not enough brains to understand consequences. :(

[Borderland]

SALT cap was a good thing.

I know it's causing a mass exodus from some states but the fed shouldn't be giving high rollers a tax break because their state income and property tax is high.

We used to use it when we were working and it saved a few bucks at tax time but mostly it was meaningless because we don't own expensive property and there is no state income tax here.

People moving from CA into our area is driving our real estate market thru the stratosphere. Our property value has gone up about 15% a year in the last 2 years. Not complaining. We invested wisely while working so we have enough money to pay our property taxes.

One of the nice things about this country is when things get too oppressive in one state there's always a U Haul trailer available.

Here's a picture of Nevada on the Loneliest Road in America (Rt. 50). Plenty of room for people who want out of CA. ;) That car was the only one I saw for about 5 minutes.

https://i.ibb.co/TBGb0xC/P1010993.jpg

[txdpd]

I live in a county that neighbors Dallas, it is one of the fastest growing areas in the US. Toyota recently relocated here. Three California families bought houses in my neighborhood as a result.


Plano hasn't had an unemployment or underemployment problem. Before Toyota, if you lived in Plano, you didn't need the kind of job that Toyota was offering, and after Toyota you still didn't need the kind of job that Toyota was offering. If you lived in Plano before Toyota your tax burden increased, thanks to tax incentives and Toyota bringing in people from out of state, and you don't really need anything that Toyota is offering. I know that job creation is an easy win for politicians, but around here it leaves me scratching my head. We are increasing the tax burden on people that didn't need the jobs to bring in people that are fleeing high tax states.

[ragnar_d]

Once in their new location, they’ll vote in the sort of jackwagons who helped cause the tax hikes in their old location. Rinse and repeat.


The Massholes who move to NH for the lower cost of living do precisely that.

That's what's going to be the downfall of Florida. People fleeing 3rd world socialist governments like Haiti, Venezuela, New York, Puerto Rico, Cuba, California, etc and then try to install the same type of assholes they run away from.

One of many reasons I'm trying like hell to go back to Alabama. I know I can't outrun demographics, but I'm hoping AL's "reputation" survives long enough to keep all the assholes at bay.

[Mark D]

As a Californian who frequently thinks about moving, I can't help but wonder what states will remain conservative?

[pooty]

As a Californian who frequently thinks about moving, I can't help but wonder what states will remain conservative?

None.
A million legal immigrants a year, 30+ million un-repatriated illegals waiting out the Trump administration, leftist control of the education system brainwashing the young people...
None, unless these states are in different countries.

[JAD]

As a Californian who frequently thinks about moving, I can't help but wonder what states will remain conservative?

The ones that are least attractive to Californians.

[Paul Blackburn]

People have been leaving california for years due to taxes, immigration, etc. It doesn't send the gov a message and the gov doesn't change their ways...All the producers could leave new york and new jersey and the gov there still wouldn't reform.

[LittleLebowski]

The ones that are least attractive to Californians.

This. Think Wyoming, Nebraska, and the Dakotas. Desolate states.

[blues]

This. Think Wyoming, Nebraska, and the Dakotas. Desolate states.

If you start describing them as desolatte states, this may change.

Of course, there are probably enclaves within each of those states which are deep blue and filled with residents from other states that came with deep pockets. I know I've come across the like in my travels across the west by motorcycle or four wheels.

[ranger]

As a Californian who frequently thinks about moving, I can't help but wonder what states will remain conservative?

One without a large urban area that is attractive to immigration from states with high taxes. Example - Atlanta is a magnet and is quickly transforming a RED state to PURPLE and unfortunately probably BLUE soon. We are contemplating retirement in northern Alabama or Mississippi,

[ranger]

This. Think Wyoming, Nebraska, and the Dakotas. Desolate states.

I have thought of these - I hunt in Wyoming every year. Too cold for us Southerners.

[blues]

I have thought of these - I hunt in Wyoming every year. Too cold for us Southerners.

My wife would leave after the first snow in June. My biggest quibble was riding a motorcycle leaned over 40 degrees to compensate for the wind. ;)

Love Wyoming.

[farscott]

One without a large urban area that is attractive to immigration from states with high taxes. Example - Atlanta is a magnet and is quickly transforming a RED state to PURPLE and unfortunately probably BLUE soon. We are contemplating retirement in northern Alabama or Mississippi,

Alabama has Huntsville with both Redstone Arsenal and a growing automotive manufacturing base, and the metro area is growing. Redstone Arsenal is getting a ton of transfers from the DC area for the FBI, and Mazda and Toyota are building a new vehicle assembly plant. That is bringing in multiple automotive suppliers.

[Cory]

Once in their new location, they’ll vote in the sort of jackwagons who helped cause the tax hikes in their old location. Rinse and repeat.

Not everyone leaving is like that. I know a lot are. But some of us hated it and moved to get away to somewhere that had a chance to fight it off before it circles the tubes. There is no chance for NYS residents to win any of the battles ahead of them.

Lord, I miss Kentucky. We left NYS and lived there a few years. Then, the whole family moved out of NYS and settled in Florida. So now we're here. But Kentucky changes something in your soul.

-Cory

[TexasSiegfried]

Lord, I miss Kentucky. We left NYS and lived there a few years. Then, the whole family moved out of NYS and settled in Florida. So now we're here. But Kentucky changes something in your soul.

-Cory[/QUOTE]

This is an interesting comment. I wonder how much we will see conversations among family begin to shift from the lines of blood, to the ideological tribe, whether governed by spirituality, politics, economics, etc....

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[OlongJohnson]

He just shrugged, and said "Yeah, folks like you just stay buried in the past."

I truly fear people like Roy. He has enough brains to be dangerous, but not enough brains to understand consequences. :(

Tell him "Change that leads to muda is not kaizen."


FWIW, the most conservative Toyota employees I was personally acquainted with tended to stay in SoCal. They had ties to family, owned property, and were committed to an outdoor lifestyle that simply isn't available in DFW.

[JAD]

He just shrugged, and said "Yeah, folks like you just stay buried in the past."
. :(

People like him might wind up buried in the near future.

[Spartan1980]

I truly fear people like Roy. He has enough brains to be dangerous, but not enough brains to understand consequences. :(

And there are many like him. Unfortunately, the only way to cure his ailment is for him to experience true hardship. It's going to get ugly before it gets better.

[Inkwell 41]

The Massholes who move to NH for the lower cost of living do precisely that.

They've been doing the same thing in Maine for years.

[Cory]

This is an interesting comment. I wonder how much we will see conversations among family begin to shift from the lines of blood, to the ideological tribe, whether governed by spirituality, politics, economics, etc....

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I don't understand what you meant here.

Blood is pretty close to the most important thing in life in my opinion. But staying in NYS wasn't an option, and the family was planning to all move out. We just manages it sooner then them.

After starting our own family, we moved to FL because children need grandparents. To say that another interstate move was a hardship we endured to be with family is entirely accurate. Because blood is important.

-Cory

[TexasSiegfried]

I don't understand what you meant here.

Blood is pretty close to the most important thing in life in my opinion. But staying in NYS wasn't an option, and the family was planning to all move out. We just manages it sooner then them.

After starting our own family, we moved to FL because children need grandparents. To say that another interstate move was a hardship we endured to be with family is entirely accurate. Because blood is important.

-CoryMy comment was not a specific comment or critique of your individual situation or motives.

My curiosity is more focused on personal allegiances. Based on your response, blood is a priority in your motivation. I was just wondering how often that will be true for others moving forward in this society. It is in no way meant to be a judgement of your life decisions.

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[Cory]

My comment was not a specific comment or critique of your individual situation or motives.

My curiosity is more focused on personal allegiances. Based on your response, blood is a priority in your motivation. I was just wondering how often that will be true for others moving forward in this society. It is in no way meant to be a judgement of your life decisions.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I didn't take it as an attack by any means. I just didn't understand what was meant, and was trying to give some insight into one of the major items that lead to me moving to Florida.

I think that the pull of family is as strong as it has ever been in our country. That being said people picked up and left their home town and changed states generations ago too. The only difference is that it's easier to keep in touch with those you leave behind when you do it today.

-Cory

[EricP]

My wife would leave after the first snow in June. My biggest quibble was riding a motorcycle leaned over 40 degrees to compensate for the wind. ;)

Love Wyoming.

I drove across North Dakota in a van with the steering wheel cranked a quarter turn due to the wind. Every overpass was a chance to drive off the road. I asked a local if it was always that windy and got the, “you’re an idiot” look.

Driving west through Theodore Roosevelt National Park at sunset was amazing.

[Totem Polar]

I drove across North Dakota in a van with the steering wheel cranked a quarter turn due to the wind. Every overpass was a chance to drive off the road. I asked a local if it was always that windy and got the, “you’re an idiot” look.

Driving west through Theodore Roosevelt National Park at sunset was amazing.

That is a no-shitter. The Mrs and I have driven a van in that wind/terrain. Same deal on our end.

Tangentially, a drum ensemble from Africa out on a van tour got blown off the road in the same territory many years back. Nobody was hurt, but it turned into a circus because the troopers that came to the rescue found the stranded van filled not just with male African drummers, but also some underage Canadian groupies. Mild international hilarity ensued. Suffice to say they missed the rest of the tour dates.

[Mark D]

None.
A million legal immigrants a year, 30+ million un-repatriated illegals waiting out the Trump administration, leftist control of the education system brainwashing the young people...
None, unless these states are in different countries.

Long term, I suspect you're right.

In the shorter term, LL and others are probably correct - the least appealing states to Californians (and other immigrants) will be slower to change. Personally I was considering the Carolinas, but the recent anti-2A push in VA, and the political shift in GA, has me doubtful that the southeastern coastal states will remain red.

[blues]

Long term, I suspect you're right.

In the shorter term, LL and others are probably correct - the least appealing states to Californians (and other immigrants) will be slower to change. Personally I was considering the Carolinas, but the recent anti-2A push in VA, and the political shift in GA, has me doubtful that the southeastern coastal states will remain red.

We're hangin' on in western NC so far.

[ranger]

We're hangin' on in western NC so far.

Unfortunately, the issue is not Western NC - it is the urban areas with colleges and technology centers.

[blues]

Unfortunately, the issue is not Western NC - it is the urban areas with colleges and technology centers.

Oh, don't I know it. And don't forget that a number of transplants, (even hereabouts), "think globally, act locally" and have the bumper stickers to prove it.

Live and let live is fine by me as long as it remains a two way street.

[CWM11B]

Asheville and Boone are full retard. Raleigh/Duraham/Chapel hill area are beyond redemption. the other major cities are same/same or almost there. The coast is quickly being overdeveloped. I hate to see it, but do not think it can be stopped. I've said it here and elsewhere: ten years tops and NC is solidly blue and will no longer be gun friendly. We have pretty good 2A support for now, but there is a bill in the house to change our CCH from shall issue to may issue. My blood has been here since the beginning. Its home, but I am considering leaving at some point. The problem is, every where I would consider seems to be heading in the same direction.

[flyrodr]

Unfortunately, the issue is not Western NC - it is the urban areas with colleges and technology centers.

Oh, I don't know. I'm a WNC native, and some think Asheville is "lost". Well, except for the microbreweries. Live in the RDU area now, and while there are plenty of nice folks, there is absolutely no shortage of interlopers who have no hesitation about showing us how we need to change, live, act, etc. Or drive . . .

Believe them, they won't hesitate to tell you what's wrong with the area. Again, the minority, but still . . .

[Sigfan26]

South Dakota has ZERO state income tax cheap vehicle tax/registration, and the people are genuinely nice. I’d consider retirement in Sioux Falls (it’s like a hybridized large and small city). They do tax online sales, though (but, everyone will be in the next 10 years, if I had to guess)


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[paherne]

We need the right type of people to move to Nevada. Come yourself or send like-minded individuals. :p

Nevada is done. Too many stupid Californians have polluted the politics.

[TheRoland]

It's worth noting that not all of the states that people have mentioned in this thread are actually on the "exodus" list. The article is careful to mention only NY and CA.

I don't think US internal migration is as simple as the article suggests at all. Pennsylvania isn't super high tax rate and isn't super liberal, and sees a higher move out rate than New York.

Massachusetts is a classic nanny state, with high taxes, and was pretty much net population, as was New Hampshire.

IMHO a lot of migration is simply about access to jobs and people aligning themselves with their intended lifestyle. Nearly everything else is a red herring.

[SeriousStudent]

Tell him "Change that leads to muda is not kaizen."


FWIW, the most conservative Toyota employees I was personally acquainted with tended to stay in SoCal. They had ties to family, owned property, and were committed to an outdoor lifestyle that simply isn't available in DFW.

I try to refrain from any conversation with him at all. After you hit 60, you tend to watch out for high blood pressure.

We have gained a lot of awesome people here. We have a local STEM school in our district, and many of the new Toyota folks volunteer in the robotics, engineering and physics labs. They have been terrific! :)

[Darth_Uno]

It's worth noting that not all of the states that people have mentioned in this thread are actually on the "exodus" list. The article is careful to mention only NY and CA.

I don't think US internal migration is as simple as the article suggests at all. Pennsylvania isn't super high tax rate and isn't super liberal, and sees a higher move out rate than New York.

Massachusetts is a classic nanny state, with high taxes, and was pretty much net population, as was New Hampshire.

IMHO a lot of migration is simply about access to jobs and people aligning themselves with their intended lifestyle. Nearly everything else is a red herring.

Illinois is shedding population. All people really care about is their own bottom line. You can jump across the border to Indiana, Missouri, or Kentucky and pocket more money because of lower taxes (either state, local, or property). Nobody really cares what the taxes go to. All they know is they can pay $X in one state, and significantly less in another 30 minutes away. So if the overall quality of life is the same, why pay more in one state vs another?

[LittleLebowski]

I drove across North Dakota in a van with the steering wheel cranked a quarter turn due to the wind. Every overpass was a chance to drive off the road. I asked a local if it was always that windy and got the, “you’re an idiot” look.

Driving west through Theodore Roosevelt National Park at sunset was amazing.

Never leave a car door open when it’s windy in the west.

[Gray01]

If it was not so tragic I would find it mildly amusing that the overall consensus omits a specific forecast: “It will all eventually improve.”

The only variable, it seems, is how long before it goes over the edge, and not the eventuality of it.

[fixer]

I got a blank look. I told him he might want to look up what happened about 180 years ago when a bunch of Texans, with the help of some friends from Tennessee and Virginia, decided they had been pushed far enough. It might be instructive for him and his friends to consider.

He rolled his eyes and said "Oh yeah, history".

I told him that probably one of the most horrible things that could happen to this country would be his progressive friends provoking Texas past a tipping point. That it would be a calamity of Biblical proportions, that would be a terrible loss for all involved. And that we might not survive as a nation or even a people. That there would be no winners at all in that scenario, and probably not even many survivors.

He just shrugged, and said "Yeah, folks like you just stay buried in the past."
:(

He'll be gone soon...I wouldn't worry.

Between the heat, come and take it stickers, college football, billboards for gun shows, and everything else, I can guarandamntee you he is on indeed right now looking for work elsewhere.

[mtnbkr]

He'll be gone soon...I wouldn't worry.

Between the heat, come and take it stickers, college football, billboards for gun shows, and everything else, I can guarandamntee you he is on indeed right now looking for work elsewhere.

Virginia has all of those (maybe not as much heat, but 100deg with 100% humidity is pretty damn sucky) and it isn't working for us. Hell, we even tried with traffic, yet the SOBs keep coming.

Chris

[LittleLebowski]

Virginia has all of those (maybe not as much heat, but 100deg with 100% humidity is pretty damn sucky) and it isn't working for us. Hell, we even tried with traffic, yet the SOBs keep coming.

Chris

I fucking hate DC.

[JohnO]

The Democratic super majority in Connecticut (governor, senate & house) is doing everything possible to drive people and businesses out. The tax situation keeps getting worse. One interesting phenomenon in and around the tri-state area is the disproportionate impact one taxpayer can have. One taxpayer being for example a Billionaire Hedge Fund manager. One person like that leaving can put a serious dent in tax revenue collected and it already happened in CT.

Conn. Lost $2.6 Billion in 2016 Revenue Due to High Earners Leaving State https://www.nationalreview.com/news/connecticut-lost-billions-in-2016-revenue-due-to-high-earners-leaving-state/

[LittleLebowski]

The Democratic super majority in Connecticut (governor, senate & house) is doing everything possible to drive people and businesses out. The tax situation keeps getting worse. One interesting phenomenon in and around the tri-state area is the disproportionate impact one taxpayer can have. One taxpayer being for example a Billionaire Hedge Fund manager. One person like that leaving can put a serious dent in tax revenue collected and it already happened in CT.

Conn. Lost $2.6 Billion in 2016 Revenue Due to High Earners Leaving State https://www.nationalreview.com/news/connecticut-lost-billions-in-2016-revenue-due-to-high-earners-leaving-state/

NY says "Hold my beer and watch this!"

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/23/andrew-cuomo-new-green-deal-become-law-new-york/


Greg Biryla, New York state director of the National Federation of Independent Business, cited estimates showing that the plan will require about $8 billion in new taxes on existing energy sources to pay for the transition to renewables.

The bill’s supporters argue that the economic impact will be offset by the creation of green jobs and a focus on boosting “disadvantaged communities,” which are to receive at least 35% of the clean energy investment.

[JohnO]

NY says "Hold my beer and watch this!"

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/23/andrew-cuomo-new-green-deal-become-law-new-york/

Thinly veiled income redistribution!

[Borderland]

That's what's going to be the downfall of Florida. People fleeing 3rd world socialist governments like Haiti, Venezuela, New York, Puerto Rico, Cuba, California, etc and then try to install the same type of assholes they run away from.

One of many reasons I'm trying like hell to go back to Alabama. I know I can't outrun demographics, but I'm hoping AL's "reputation" survives long enough to keep all the assholes at bay.

I spent a few years in Alabama in the late 60's. My kind of place. At least it was in the 60's, not sure what goes on there these days.

[Borderland]

If you start describing them as desolatte states, this may change.

Of course, there are probably enclaves within each of those states which are deep blue and filled with residents from other states that came with deep pockets. I know I've come across the like in my travels across the west by motorcycle or four wheels.

Bozeman MT is like that. So is Moab UT.

[rob_s]

Once in their new location, they’ll vote in the sort of jackwagons who helped cause the tax hikes in their old location. Rinse and repeat.

Basically what happens with every carpetbagging dimbulb that comes to FL from the northeast.

One of our recent gubernatorial candidates (I'll let you guess which party) was running on a platform of "closing the business tax break loophole" in order to get more money to pay for more free shit for people that won't work for themselves. He is literally the only reason I voted, for the first time in probably 10 years.

[Borderland]

Alabama has Huntsville with both Redstone Arsenal and a growing automotive manufacturing base, and the metro area is growing. Redstone Arsenal is getting a ton of transfers from the DC area for the FBI, and Mazda and Toyota are building a new vehicle assembly plant. That is bringing in multiple automotive suppliers.

There goes the neighborhood. Soon enough you'll have people from coming in from all directions looking for a job.

We have Boeing, Amazon and Microsoft, to name a few, to deal with. Seattle is a shit hole. I don't live there but I used to.

[LittleLebowski]

Bozeman MT is like that. So is Moab UT.

And now Boise. Not to mention Laramie and Jackson Hole.

[Borderland]

And there are many like him. Unfortunately, the only way to cure his ailment is for him to experience true hardship. It's going to get ugly before it gets better.

I'll buy that.

We're headed back to the 30's.

Global recession this time. Too many people, too much debt. Gov't can't save itself or anyone else.

There were mass migrations in this country during the depression. It's happening again. Tip of the iceberg.

[Borderland]

And now Boise. Not to mention Laramie and Jackson Hole.

Haven't been to JH in awhile. It was getting posh in the 90's with art galleries and outfitters. Lots of money moving into the valley and mini ranches popping up like weeds. It's a beautiful place and now has all the beautiful people. I'm glad I was able to see it in the 70's cause it's a playground for the wealthy now.

I've lived in the west all my life and it makes me sad to see some of this crap.

[Trav]

Oh, I don't know. I'm a WNC native, and some think Asheville is "lost". Well, except for the microbreweries. Live in the RDU area now, and while there are plenty of nice folks, there is absolutely no shortage of interlopers who have no hesitation about showing us how we need to change, live, act, etc. Or drive . . .

Believe them, they won't hesitate to tell you what's wrong with the area. Again, the minority, but still . . .

Guilty. Just because y’all like NASCAR doesn’t mean the slowpokes need to clog the left lane. ;)

[blues]

Bozeman MT is like that. So is Moab UT.

Been to Bozeman. Close by (but not in) Moab.

[LittleLebowski]

Haven't been to JH in awhile. It was getting posh in the 90's with art galleries and outfitters. Lots of money moving into the valley and mini ranches popping up like weeds. It's a beautiful place and now has all the beautiful people. I'm glad I was able to see it in the 70's cause it's a playground for the wealthy now.

I've lived in the west all my life and it makes me sad to see some of this crap.

Jackson Hole is a nice place to get sushi and an expresso now.

[BobLoblaw]

And there's the silver lining to living in an economically-depressed state with an opiate crisis: no tax-fleeing elitists.

[Sal Picante]

Basically what happens with every carpetbagging dimbulb that comes to FL from the northeast.

HEY!!! I resemble that comment!

;)

That said, man... I love it here! Hot, humid, beaches, rum, I bought a shit load of new guns...

Oh, and I'd like to think that my vote helped keep some of the better folks in power.

[rob_s]

HEY!!! I resemble that comment!

;)

That said, man... I love it here! Hot, humid, beaches, rum, I bought a shit load of new guns...

Oh, and I'd like to think that my vote helped keep some of the better folks in power.

ok, you can stay!


In all seriousness, as much as I throw around the "carpetbagger" term, I really only mean it to describe those that are seemingly intent on turning Florida into whatever dump they left (and that includes invaders from the North AND the South....).

Oh, and anyone that bitches about the pizza, bagels, bread, or the water. they usually get the "carpetbagger" term applied to them too!

[Sal Picante]

ok, you can stay!


In all seriousness, as much as I throw around the "carpetbagger" term, I really only mean it to describe those that are seemingly intent on turning Florida into whatever dump they left (and that includes invaders from the North AND the South....).

Oh, and anyone that bitches about the pizza, bagels, bread, or the water. they usually get the "carpetbagger" term applied to them too!

I'm not complaining... I can make the drive up to Brandon, FL to visit the Portillos for my hot dog fix once every so often... My waistline is happy I don't do it too often!

[CWM11B]

The hell of it here in NC is, you aren't really escaping taxes that much. We have one of the highest tax rates in the SE: income tax, sales tax, gas tax, property tax, vehicle tax, and so on.

[Gray01]

And now Boise. Not to mention Laramie and Jackson Hole.

It is too much to posit that one of the intentions of statists creating increased pain and shrinking liberties (in "exodus" states) is to create a deliberate diaspora. To stipulate such would advance an intelligence level that thus far has not been displayed. (Although, arguendo, they are sufficiently diabolical.)

In combination with the deliberate implantation of "refugees" from places like Somalia, Central America, etc into micro-cultures like Maine and Idaho, one could almost suspect a planned effect.

In a work of fiction one could use a plot device whereby sinister forces knew that certain conditions would motivate flight to avoid pain, thereby invoking political change in the areas to which they migrate. That mechanism would then be given synergism by importing foreign cultures that do not possess the existing shared foundational value system and institutional historical knowledge, and who are disinclined to assimilation. Just imagine the changes that one could foster in the politico-cultural landscape over a few generations, and all funded by taxpayer monies.

But that would be fiction.

[flyrodr]

Guilty. Just because y’all like NASCAR doesn’t mean the slowpokes need to clog the left lane. ;)

That left lane clogging has been growing for years. And I'm pretty sure it's not limited to either natives or transplants. Everybody does it, it seems.

To the point now that at times, I've pulled up to a red light with a half dozen cars (literally) lined up in the left lane, and I'll be the first one in the right lane. I'm beginning to think that driver's education training has changed, and I didn't get the word.

But it reminds me of a friend whose work required a lot of travel around the state (still in NC). WNC, particularly, is a summer haven for Floridians who come to the mountains to get away from the heat and humidity. Again, most are nice, but "their" reputation is made by the slower (typically older) drivers, too many of whom live in the left lane. My friend got a bumper sticker made for his car that said "When I retire, I'm going to move to Florida and D-R-I-V-E S-L-O-W-L-Y". Pretty sure it didn't cause anybody to move over, but he liked sending the message.

[Borderland]

It is too much to posit that one of the intentions of statists creating increased pain and shrinking liberties (in "exodus" states) is to create a deliberate diaspora. To stipulate such would advance an intelligence level that thus far has not been displayed. (Although, arguendo, they are sufficiently diabolical.)

In combination with the deliberate implantation of "refugees" from places like Somalia, Central America, etc into micro-cultures like Maine and Idaho, one could almost suspect a planned effect.

In a work of fiction one could use a plot device whereby sinister forces knew that certain conditions would motivate flight to avoid pain, thereby invoking political change in the areas to which they migrate. That mechanism would then be given synergism by importing foreign cultures that do not possess the existing shared foundational value system and institutional historical knowledge, and who are disinclined to assimilation. Just imagine the changes that one could foster in the politico-cultural landscape over a few generations, and all funded by taxpayer monies.

But that would be fiction.

It no secret where those refugees end up. They go to places that need the labor that don't ask a lot of questions.

[Borderland]

Been to Bozeman. Close by (but not in) Moab.

Go to Moab in September.

Holy shit! It's become Mecca for every off road enthusiast in the west.

[Gray01]

It no secret where those refugees end up. They go to places that need the labor that don't ask a lot of questions.

What labor is needed in Lewiston-Auburn (ME), Dearborn (MI) and Twin Falls (ID)?

And when "Comments are disabled on some stories about sensitive topics. (https://www.pressherald.com/2019/06/24/two-lewiston-men-connected-to-last-years-deadly-melee-face-new-charges/)", it definitely makes one wonder who is sensitive, and about what.

[LittleLebowski]

It no secret where those refugees end up. They go to places that need the labor that don't ask a lot of questions.

Or to where the churches are literally paid to import them like Minnesota.

https://brassballs.blog/home/who-was-paid-two-billion-dollars-to-move-somalia-to-the-states

[45dotACP]

Or to where the churches are literally paid to import them like Minnesota.

https://brassballs.blog/home/who-was-paid-two-billion-dollars-to-move-somalia-to-the-states

No offense, but I have a hard time lending credulity to such a source when another article featured prominently in said blog is loudly bleating the anti-vaxxer horn.

Perhaps it is narrow-minded of me, but it's a personal quirk and a major sign to me that I'm being bullshitted. Sorta like how other people might not lend much belief to a 9/11 truther.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[LittleLebowski]

No offense, but I have a hard time lending credulity to such a source when another article featured prominently in said blog is loudly bleating the anti-vaxxer horn.

Perhaps it is narrow-minded of me, but it's a personal quirk and a major sign to me that I'm being bullshitted. Sorta like how other people might not lend much belief to a 9/11 truther.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

I understand, but if you did a fairly uninvolved google search for say “Lutheran Social Services immigrants” or any of the other church names from that article, you’d find a pattern and more articles. There’s nuggets of truth here and there.

[45dotACP]

A fair point. My brother lives about 5 minutes out of St. Paul and was fairly straightforward in explaining to me that it largely has to do with the generosity of the MN government with other people's money to refugee groups and charities that serve them. Apparently their sizable Hmong population has similar origins according to my younger brother who was educated in the Twin Cities.

As to whether or not the liberals are secretly trying to spread their propaganda...well I would probably just chalk it up to economics and human foolishness because such a convoluted and long term plot would almost be certain to fail due to the nature of nothing ever working as intended.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Gray01]

the generosity of the MN government with other people's money to refugee groups and charities that serve them...human foolishness...

...would almost be certain to fail due to the nature of nothing ever working as intended...



The stated "generosity" is nothing but simple theft, constituting redistribution by an entity with compulsory power to extract monies (with an ultimate reductio to lethal force if someone refuses firmly enough).

One of the strategic elements in any cultural metamorphosis is the ability to command language and definitions. Charity has never (honestly) been defined as forced contributions to someone else's pet project. Fools and foolishness has historically been understood to be a moral failure, not an intellectual deficit. And, as you mentioned the term "foolishness", said behavior (theft) is appropriately defined as a type of foolishness.

Failure has never been a deterrent to the communist dialectic. (One of the most fervent repositories of statist revolutionary "theory" currently resides in U.S. academia.) The matryoshka is an excellent model of how removing one iteration simply reveals the previous or next attempt. Yes, it might fail in the long term, but piles of ashes and mounds of skulls, and 58 million of Stalin's "statistics" reveal how far some are willing to go while "failing".

[Suvorov]

The stated "generosity" is nothing but simple theft, constituting redistribution by an entity with compulsory power to extract monies (with an ultimate reductio to lethal force if someone refuses firmly enough).

One of the strategic elements in any cultural metamorphosis is the ability to command language and definitions. Charity has never (honestly) been defined as forced contributions to someone else's pet project. Fools and foolishness has historically been understood to be a moral failure, not an intellectual deficit. And, as you mentioned the term "foolishness", said behavior (theft) is appropriately defined as a type of foolishness.

Failure has never been a deterrent to the communist dialectic. (One of the most fervent repositories of statist revolutionary "theory" currently resides in U.S. academia.) The matryoshka is an excellent model of how removing one iteration simply reveals the previous or next attempt. Yes, it might fail in the long term, but piles of ashes and mounds of skulls, and 58 million of Stalin's "statistics" reveal how far some are willing to go while "failing".

I agree. At this point it is hard for me to believe the people behind this want any short of another chance at Marxism.

[willie]

My opinion is that they can't help it because they ignore that the group paying the most taxes has a less than zero growth rate while those requiring the most public assistance are becoming custodial populations and are increasing in number. No amount of redistribution of wealth will correct this situation. As our debt increases, the custodial populations will become more poor. Their quality of life will degrade as well as everyone else's. Buzz words and bullshit will not increase productivity.

[67GTONUT]

HEY!!! I resemble that comment!

;)

That said, man... I love it here! Hot, humid, beaches, rum, I bought a shit load of new guns...

Oh, and I'd like to think that my vote helped keep some of the better folks in power.

We are hopefully headed your way in the future.....

Just no way to retire in Northern NJ .....

My parents are in Broward County..... NO desire to go there.... crowded and Liberal

Wife's Aunt is on Siesta Key and looks wonderful. Houses on the mainland are still reasonable and taxes are not bad. We love the warm weather and the ocean, so that is our driving factor....
My biggest fears..... oppressive summer heat and abundance of large insects.... yuck.

Just hoping the Broward / Dade County infection does not spread to the rest of the state....

[Borderland]

Or to where the churches are literally paid to import them like Minnesota.

https://brassballs.blog/home/who-was-paid-two-billion-dollars-to-move-somalia-to-the-states

I don't have a problem with churches doing it. Churches do a lot of good in this country, in other countries also. Membership is also voluntary so no money to support them is coming out of my pocket.

I do however have a problem with my tax dollars supporting a county government that claims to be a sanctuary for people who are here illegally. Those people use a lot of resources provided by me. I get to vote on school levies and emergency services but I don't get to vote on public health services and housing for illegals. Where I live I'm sure a ballot referendum would pass to do just that but at least I got to vote on it. The only option I have now is to pay attention to what my county commissioners are doing with my money. That's a lot of work and it's time consuming.

Churches have always been an institution that have an enormous amount of freedom guided by the constitution.


"make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,"

People who harbor illegals thru the actions of their church are following their religious beliefs.

Full disclosure. I'm not a member of any church.

[LittleLebowski]

I don't have a problem with churches doing it. Churches do a lot of good in this country, in other countries also. Membership is also voluntary so no money to support them is coming out of my pocket.

I do however have a problem with my tax dollars supporting a county government that claims to be a sanctuary for people who are here illegally. Those people use a lot of resources provided by me. I get to vote on school levies and emergency services but I don't get to vote on public health services and housing for illegals. Where I live I'm sure a ballot referendum would pass to do just that but at least I got to vote on it. The only option I have now is to pay attention to what my county commissioners are doing with my money. That's a lot of work and it's time consuming.

Churches have always been an institution that have an enormous amount of freedom guided by the constitution.



People who harbor illegals thru the actions of their church are following their religious beliefs.

Full disclosure. I'm not a member of any church.

I think you missed the part where churches are using tax dollars to do this.

[Borderland]

I think you missed the part where churches are using tax dollars to do this.

Then that's where it stops. Can't come under the heading of church fundraiser.;)

Nude carwash Saturday to support Christian youth college fund.

[Sal Picante]

I do like Planet Money on NPR (and The Indicator)...

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/14/732847076/episode-919-are-cities-overrated

Interesting economics take.

[Guinnessman]

All the talk of a wall on the US/Mexican border is nauseating.

We need a wall around the Northeast and California.:cool:

[ralph]

ok, you can stay!


In all seriousness, as much as I throw around the "carpetbagger" term, I really only mean it to describe those that are seemingly intent on turning Florida into whatever dump they left (and that includes invaders from the North AND the South....).

Oh, and anyone that bitches about the pizza, bagels, bread, or the water. they usually get the "carpetbagger" term applied to them too!

Probably the best pizza I ever ate was in Florida, I'm thinking this was in Boca Raton, I still remember the name, Renzo's they made their own dough, own sauce from scratch.. buddy of mine and I worked over there for awhile (I used to live in Ft. Myers) we left the area, and one night we bought a pizza from pizza hut..Ate a couple of peices, and threw it in the trash...it just wasn't the same.. Renzo's ruined us..

[BigDaddy]

That's because Pizza Hut pizza is just that. Trash. I wouldn't feed that to a rat.

[Baldanders]

I think you missed the part where churches are using tax dollars to do this.

Just another reason the state should never be handing out $$$ to religious groups. It's basically a way to buy votes with taxpayer money, and a way to push policies without having the votes to support them.

[Gun Mutt]

That's because Pizza Hut pizza is just that. Trash. I wouldn't feed that to a rat.

39483

*his

[Baldanders]

That's because Pizza Hut pizza is just that. Trash. I wouldn't feed that to a rat.

I used to own my own pizza place-- used organic flour, made my own sauce, etc. It was good.

I'm not defending Pizza Hut and the like, but as long as I think of it as bread with sauce and cheese on it, it's fine. Never exciting, but it's OK.

[BigDaddy]

This is a first. Never did I ever think I'd see the day when someone would defend Pizza Hut pizza, lol.

[pooty]

All the talk of a wall on the US/Mexican border is nauseating.

We need a wall around the Northeast and California.:cool:

There are, one called the Sierra Nevadas, one called the NE Appalachians.
If we are to protect our rights let's make our geographic reality a political one.


California < AMERICA > The Sprawl

[Bart Carter]

Nevada is done. Too many stupid Californians have polluted the politics.

Hence my plead for the right kind of people to move here.

[Old Man Winter]

I don't have a problem with churches doing it. Churches do a lot of good in this country, in other countries also. Membership is also voluntary so no money to support them is coming out of my pocket.

I do however have a problem with my tax dollars supporting a county government that claims to be a sanctuary for people who are here illegally. Those people use a lot of resources provided by me. I get to vote on school levies and emergency services but I don't get to vote on public health services and housing for illegals. Where I live I'm sure a ballot referendum would pass to do just that but at least I got to vote on it. The only option I have now is to pay attention to what my county commissioners are doing with my money. That's a lot of work and it's time consuming.

Churches have always been an institution that have an enormous amount of freedom guided by the constitution.



People who harbor illegals thru the actions of their church are following their religious beliefs.

Full disclosure. I'm not a member of any church.

I've learned to separate my faith from the church itself. If you open your eyes to what many churches do and promote, it's difficult (for me at least) to see them as anything but a fund raising machine for things I can't reconcile. I have a family member who is an Archbishop in the Roman Catholic Church and his insight on the inner workings of the church only confirms my feelings. There needs to be more separation of church and state as the church is influencing government under the guise of religious beliefs.

Refugees end up where they will face the least resistance and where the local community can financially support them. This is why Minnesota is often a landing spot. We have a strong economy, excellent welfare programs, and the whole "Minnesota nice" shtick comes into play. Many people in this state are actually moderate to conservative and accepting of others but they're quick to sit on their hands and never question anything. Churches take advantage of it and the government takes advantage of it. It also why they're still headed to the ballot box to "religiously" punch a democrat ticket as if they're voting for moderate democrats of the past who would be considered present day conservatives.

[Borderland]

I've learned to separate my faith from the church itself. If you open your eyes to what many churches do and promote, it's difficult (for me at least) to see them as anything but a fund raising machine for things I can't reconcile. I have a family member who is an Archbishop in the Roman Catholic Church and his insight on the inner workings of the church only confirms my feelings. There needs to be more separation of church and state as the church is influencing government under the guise of religious beliefs.

Refugees end up where they will face the least resistance and where the local community can financially support them. This is why Minnesota is often a landing spot. We have a strong economy, excellent welfare programs, and the whole "Minnesota nice" shtick comes into play. Many people in this state are actually moderate to conservative and accepting of others but they're quick to sit on their hands and never question anything. Churches take advantage of it and the government takes advantage of it. It also why they're still headed to the ballot box to "religiously" punch a democrat ticket as if they're voting for moderate democrats of the past who would be considered present day conservatives.

I agree. One of the reasons I don't have any religious affiliations. I'm not against anyone who practices their religious beliefs however, including Muslims.

I just don't want the state or fed supporting it in any way, even in schools.

[OlongJohnson]

If there was no law respecting religion in this country, churches would have to pay the same property and income taxes as everyone else. Set up a non-profit for charity programs and be subject to audits just like other non-profits.