What are the mechanics of a consistent accurate presentation?

[Paul Blackburn]

When presenting a pistol from a ready position or the holster what are the key mechanics to achieve a fast, accurate, and consistent index on a 3x5 card? 1.5 second or less fast...

[Paul Blackburn]

Is this the death of gun forums?

[spinmove_]

No, it’s not the death of gun forums. People are probably out enjoying Father’s Day with their families.

The mechanics are being able to drive the sights to where you’re looking as efficiently as possible. The efficiency comes from doing the least amount of work. The speed comes from practice.


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[DAB]

i know how to draw a pistol safely from a holster, but i'm not sure i can describe each step in a satisfactory manner. practice?

good grip, pull up, rotate barrel towards target, bring to eye level while your weak side hand joins the grip, sights on target, pull trigger?

[Paul Blackburn]

Beyond body position, grip, and driving the gun to a focal point under the dominant eye... there is a ton of minutia involved...a pliable grip, rolling the shoulders, specifics about where to apply tension, joint manipulation, etc. But what specifically do you do or notice that works for you? Recently I've noticed more consistency when I set/lock my wrists as soon as both hands meet and prior to full extension.

[David S.]

Chip away at it.

During dry practice, set your par time just a bit faster than you can currently do it. Work in what Steve Anderson calls "Speed Mode" until you can consistently exceed the part time you want by 20%. (Your dry draw should be 1.2 or 1.3s for a live fire 1.5s)

Speed Mode means you suspend judgement of accuracy. Dry practice with no target until you can consistently get the speed.

Then continuously increase the target difficulty til your satisfied.

Cheers,
David S.

[Clobbersaurus]

When presenting a pistol from a ready position or the holster what are the key mechanics to achieve a fast, accurate, and consistent index on a 3x5 card? 1.5 second or less fast...

What distance are you taking about?

[UNM1136]

Chip away at it.

During dry practice, set your par time just a bit faster than you can currently do it. Work in what Steve Anderson calls "Speed Mode" until you can consistently exceed the part time you want by 20%. (Your dry draw should be 1.2 or 1.3s for a live fire 1.5s)

Speed Mode means you suspend judgement of accuracy. Dry practice with no target until you can consistently get the speed.

Then continuously increase the target difficulty til your satisfied.

Cheers,
David S.

Word. When training for the instructor pre qualification I was able to use decreasing par times to get to a .80 draw and first round on a standard IPSC target. As the target got smaller the time went up from there. 4 yards was the distance from my bed to my closet door holding the target. It was very similar to some of then concepts TLG taught years later at AFHF, but by then life had caused my skills to erode a bit.

When I went live fire for accuracy my standard was a full 1911 mag to the scuba mask at 25 yards. Can't do that anymore, either.

You also have to decide which philosophy you want to play with. Four point draw, or press out? I am still conceptually liking the press out, but the four point draw has been so ingrained over the last 27 years that it is still the faster option for me.

pat

[Paul Blackburn]

What distance are you taking about?
7 Yards

[David S.]

To pile on to my previous post:

Give yourself permission to go fast. If a fast draw is your goal, then you have to set the very important tactical reality stuff on a shelf. All that threat assessment stuff that Bolke and Dobbs rightly recommend will be there when you get back. Just haul ass.

Eliminate barriers to success. Make it easier.


Eliminate concealment.
Use a "gamer rig," preferably strong side OWB with some sort of offset. (Check out the Blackhawk CQC (https://blackhawk.com/products/holsters-accessories/holsters/concealment/injection-molded/standard-cqc-holster)(not SERPA) for a cheap, $25 temporary solution if you're not into the games. Obviously, upgrade to something like a Comp-tac Int'l or Blade-tec if you can)
Don't engage the trigger. Steve Anderson wants you to touch the trigger, but not engage or prep the trigger when working the draw.

When you have the par times where you want them, add those complications back in, one at a time.

My current dry practice par time is sitting right about 0.6 seconds and my live fire draw is sitting right about high 0.8s to low 0.9s. That should take you a week or two if you already have a serviceable draw.

That said, when I took his class in April, Steve had everyone well under a second in about a 15 minutes of dry practice, including an older gentleman who's goal was a 2 second draw. If you get stuck, you might contact Steve for a Facetime Tuneup (http://shop.andersonshooting.com/Training/Facetime-tuneup.html).

Disclaimer: I've bought his book and attended his class, but I'm not in any way affiliated with Steve Anderson. Ben Stoeger, Mike Seeklander and I'm sure a couple others have excellent training programs too.

[45dotACP]

If you need to build a draw from the ground up, break it into two parts and micro drill those.

First: get your hand on the gun and establish a good grip.

Second: transition the gun out of the holster and onto the target.

I forget what Stoeger sets as the par times for these drills.

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[Clobbersaurus]

7 Yards

If you want consistent repeatable performance? You’ll need a couple of years of fairly focussed training. Or a year of very intense training.

I’m not joking or being flippant. That’s what it will take. Pick a method from any of the top trainers and then adjust to what your body type allows. You are talking about a pretty specific skill that requires a bunch of repetition in live and dry fire to accomplish. There are no free lunches or magic pills. You have to put in the reps and time. The mechanics are mostly unimportant. Pick one method and try it, adjust as needed, and report your progress back here.

[RJ]

If you want consistent repeatable performance? You’ll need a couple of years of fairly focussed training. Or a year of very intense training.

I’m not joking or being flippant. That’s what it will take. Pick a method from any of the top trainers and then adjust to what your body type allows. You are talking about a pretty specific skill that requires a bunch of repetition in live and dry fire to accomplish. There are no free lunches or magic pills. You have to put in the reps and time. The mechanics are mostly unimportant. Pick one method and try it, adjust as needed, and report your progress back here.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190619/6e26310278c8d7552f41a8318397542d.jpg

Clobb has it right. There is no substitute for correct repetitive movement to confirm psychomotor skills.

Of course, they do have to be ‘correct’, which is where getting instruction from a good trainer is essential to lay a good foundational skill set.

[John Hearne]

I’m John Hearne and I approve of this message:
https://youtu.be/1-sjUoGO250

[YVK]

Beyond body position, grip, and driving the gun to a focal point under the dominant eye... there is a ton of minutia involved...a pliable grip, rolling the shoulders, specifics about where to apply tension, joint manipulation, etc. But what specifically do you do or notice that works for you? Recently I've noticed more consistency when I set/lock my wrists as soon as both hands meet and prior to full extension.

There is a specific set of tactile / kinesthetic feedback points I am looking for. There could be a ton of minutia but you can't possibly be paying attention to every single thing when you're trying to hit low par times. I have maybe four things that I consciously pay attention to when practicing a draw, and I forget about everything else. Those things might be different for you. I think to have a consistent draw one needs a consistent framework how to, and just setting low pars is not enough.

[Chuck Whitlock]

You also have to decide which philosophy you want to play with. Four point draw, or press out? I am still conceptually liking the press out, but the four point draw has been so ingrained over the last 27 years that it is still the faster option for me.

This statement intrigues me, as it being an either/or position. I had envisioned that the transition from 3 > 4 could be a press out....If one chose.

[UNM1136]

This statement intrigues me, as it being an either/or position. I had envisioned that the transition from 3 > 4 could be a press out....If one chose.

I certainly learned to prep my trigger from three to four so that I could pick up my sights just before full extension and the gun went bang right as I hit full extension. Shooting TDA Sig Sauer P229.

I was always taught that the gun travels in a straight line from #2 (rock and lock) to #4, and #3 occurs somewhere along the line when the support hand gets on the gun.

The Press Out as I remember TLG teaching it is a J- or L-shaped draw. I really liked his reasoning behind the press out, particularly for what I do for a living. I also frequently like muzzle up ready positions. Someone doing a TLG type press out will consistently be accused of "fishing" by hard core old school Modern Technique police instructors insisting on a solid four point draw..

Both can be draws to index, both can allow the slack to be taken out of the trigger.

That is how my pea brain separates them.

pat

[Chuck Whitlock]

^^^^

Ah. I'm tracking. I appreciate the clarification.

[Zincwarrior]

Sorry is this what you are looking for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGgiymq7me8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdtbAkn7BrM

[UNM1136]

Sorry is this what you are looking for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGgiymq7me8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdtbAkn7BrM

That is a little different four point draw stroke than most cops practice in this part of the country. Also,when you point guns at people a whole bunch you shoot at them very little. When you point guns at paper targets a lot you tend to shoot a lot and can afford a screw up. As Dagga Boy points out .5 second splits are not unreasonable when decision making is involved.

When the world is a shoot target, and the penalty is a few points, you err on the side of taking the shot. When your life, freedom and livelihood are at stake you tend become quite conservative in where and when you place rounds.

pat

[Zincwarrior]

I am confused. The original post was asking for tips on drawing and referencing hitting a 3 by 5 card in 1.5 seconds. Thats not Bill Drill speed but it is fast. I did not see anything in the OP referencing police, and the subdirectory is marksmanship and handling, not law enforcement.

[SsevenN]

When presenting a pistol from a ready position or the holster what are the key mechanics to achieve a fast, accurate, and consistent index on a 3x5 card? 1.5 second or less fast...

In my experience, the core fundemental is repetition and familiarization. But mechanical and physical technique wise, there are a few observations I've made that will improve your ability to meet your stated target times, note on their own these tips do nothing, they are all predicated on repetition and familiarization via practice live and dry.

Stand more normal: don't over do the triangle isocelese thing, let your hips and feet go to a more natural fighting stance, the gun will extend to a more intuitive position this way.

Grip more vogel: really wrap that support hand in and earn that extra purchase and friction for 0 extra energy investment.

Trigger prep: Call me a fool if you want, hitting a 3x5 at 7 yards in 1.5 seconds is notably easier when appropriately prepping the trigger.

Teach your eyes focal resting indexes: in the same way we train our hands, elbows and feet into repeatable forms, do this specifically for the "hard target focus pre draw / sight focus post draw & mid presentation. If you teach your eyes a focal resting index point you can pick up those sights faster on extension.

Oh jeeze, phone posting, i hope the typos are limited

[snow white]

break your draw down into parts. spend some time lifting your shirt and getting a master grip, then add a draw to a sight picture. practice just the press out to proper sight alignment. try "slow motion" draws and focus on perfect movements, then speed it up more and more still keeping your movement perfect. doing this enough will benefit you when your going at full speed. use a shot timer with a par time, this is probably one of the most important things you can do. set the par time to where its on the edge of your ability and work from there. be honest with yourself about the quality of each movement in your draw and presentation\ sight picture. sloppy practice will net sloppy performance.