Federal Syntech primers not igniting - anyone else?

[GyroF-16]

I’ve been using Federal Syntech “Action Pistol” 150 gr for shooting IDPA matches for just over a year now.
In general, it’s been quite good - nice soft recoil impulse, decent accuracy, and good reliability....

Until the cartridges I’ve used in the last few months. In the last 3 months (less than 500 rounds fired in matches) I’ve had at least 5 primers fail to ignite. The primer has a good dent in it, but no bang (even with multiple strikes - I’m shooting a B92 LTT Elite). It happened twice in a major (Regional, Tier 4) match, and twice in a local match tonight.

I’ve made note of the lot number, and plan to contact Federal tomorrow.

My real question is... is anyone else seeing this? The gun’s run it fine until recently, and still ignites my reloads with WSP primers every time. So I tend to think it’s the ammo, but am wondering if I’m the only one seeing this.

Federal primers are reputed to be so soft, I’m really puzzled.

[GJM]

YVK had a similar experience Saturday.

[JSGlock34]

I had posted on this in the New Federal Action Pistol Load (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28687-New-Federal-action-pistol-load) thread...seemed to have been limited to that particular case, as I've had no problems since expending that ammunition.


So I was having excellent, consistent experience with the 150 grain Syntech Action Pistol...right until this weekend. Multiple light strikes over two range sessions. Pistol was a Glock 34 with OEM trigger components; to be sure it was the ammo, I detail stripped the slide, gave it a thorough cleaning, and swapped striker springs. Still had the occasional light strike today. Everything lit on a second strike. Improper primer seating seems a likely culprit.

Unfortunately, this is my match ammo. I decided to regulate the current batch to practice only, and opened a different case for this week's match. I inspected the primers as I loaded my magazines, so hopefully there will be no surprises. Federal needs to up their QC game.

This is very disappointing though, considering my previous positive observations with this ammunition to date.

[LittleLebowski]

I had posted on this in the New Federal Action Pistol Load (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?28687-New-Federal-action-pistol-load) thread...seemed to have been limited to that particular case, as I've had no problems since expending that ammunition.

I don't believe in coincidences like this.

[Jamie]

This is interesting. Aren't the primers that Federal is using in this ammo Lead Free?

I ask because I've not had positive experiences with lead free primer ignition in the past. But by my records I had the most failures to ignite with some Tula lead free primers in 2014. Now I've used at least 10K of Tula standard small pistol primers with absolutely no issues (loved them in fact). I prefer Federal and Winchester primers, but shy away from lead free these days.

Maybe it is just a coincidence. Curious though.

[ST911]

This is interesting. Aren't the primers that Federal is using in this ammo Lead Free?

I ask because I've not had positive experiences with lead free primer ignition in the past. But by my records I had the most failures to ignite with some Tula lead free primers in 2014. Now I've used at least 10K of Tula standard small pistol primers with absolutely no issues (loved them in fact). I prefer Federal and Winchester primers, but shy away from lead free these days.

Maybe it is just a coincidence. Curious though.

Federal lists "Catalyst lead free primer" in use for that load, here: https://www.federalpremium.com/products/handgun/syntech/syntech-action-pistol/ae9sjap1

Not familiar with the "catalyst" primer. The other speer and federal frangible green (lead free) loads run well in striker fired guns. Some manufacturers don't, but will work fine in hammer fired guns.

I'd be curious what the difference is between their Catalyst primer and what has been used in the others. And if they've switched/revised, what problems to expect on green ranges.

[GyroF-16]

The pistol I’ve been using (B92 LTT Elite) has a 12 lb hammer spring, and has almost 6,000 rounds through it. The firing pin channel has not yet been cleaned.

I’m going to take another B92 with a D spring to the range today and run some Syntech through it to rule light strikes as a possibility (although the primers on the non-firing rounds have good deep dents).

I’ll post my results later.

[Trooper224]

I typically use Winchester or CCI primers. Lately, I've been seeing an increase in dead primers. Not a huge amount, but a noticeable one.

[Tom Duffy]

I've got about 2,500 rounds of Syntech 115 grain through 3 different guns, most notably a 986 revolver that's been worked on to have a really light trigger pull. No issues with ignition. Shooting local matches, a few people have told me about shooters having notable problems with 150 grain Syntech. I think the primers are the same as the 115 grain stuff. I think a lot more people buy the 150 grain stuff so it's more likely that's where the problem gets reported.

[GyroF-16]

The pistol I’ve been using (B92 LTT Elite) has a 12 lb hammer spring, and has almost 6,000 rounds through it. The firing pin channel has not yet been cleaned.

I’m going to take another B92 with a D spring to the range today and run some Syntech through it to rule light strikes as a possibility (although the primers on the non-firing rounds have good deep dents).

I’ll post my results later.

Okay- new data points...
I took my carry gun - (a Langdon-tuned B92 Compact with a D-spring) to the range today. I shot 160 rounds of 150 gr Federal Syntech while vetting my new 15-rd Mec-Gar compact mags. I had no failures to fire.

I also brought 4 of the 6 “dud” rounds I’ve had over the last 3 months. Partway through my practice session, I loaded a mag with all 4 cartridges, and they fired, one after another through the D-spring Compact.

I also put 70 rds through the LTT Elite with the 12 lb spring, and had 2 primer failures (one SA, one DA). They both fired on subsequent SA attempts (but did not fire on immediate DA “second strikes.”)

So- I’m looking at some issue with the LTT Elite. Either the 12 lb spring is too light, or I’ve got gunk in the firing pin channel. I suspect it’s a combination of the two.
The LTT Elite went through about 3,000 uneventful rounds this year with the 12 lb spring (including at least 1000 150 gr Syntech). The issues have all been in the last 2000 rds.

So... short term, I’m going to swap the original 13 lb spring back into the LTT Elite. Over the next few weeks, I’m going to learn how to detail strip the slide, clean the firing pin channel, and probably replace any “while I’m in there” items (firing pin spring... anything else...?).

My goal is to have a reliable, vetted gun for the state IDPA match on Labor Day weekend.

Bottom line - despite the primer dents, I’m blaming the gun, not the ammo.
The LTT Elite had 2 failures in each of the last 2 70 rd sessions.
The Compact with the D-spring had none in 160 rounds.
Same ammo lot.

[Suvorov]

I'm about 200 rounds into my case of syntech ammo. It is going to be going mostly through a 92Elite with Langdon Trigger with 14lb spring and some through a 92C w/ D spring and Wilson Combat hammer. I'll let you know if I have any failures......

[YVK]

Bottom line - despite the primer dents, I’m blaming the gun, not the ammo.



I am probably 25000 rounds, Federal Am Eagle and CCI Lawman, through my CZs with 11 lbs mainsprings and until last weekend never had a light strike. I think my total round count with 150 Syntech is about 1000, 500 awhile back with no issues and 500 from recent lots, with a light strike amidst a stage last Saturday.

I blame ammo.

[Blackbag]

I also have an LTT Elite with the 12 pound Hammer Spring. I have about 100-150 rounds of the 150 Grain Federal Load, with about 1000-1200 rounds overall through the pistol. I had no stoppages or light strikes with the Federal load (or any other ammunition I have tried), I just found that my Elite didn't care for it accuracy wise. My pistol grouped noticeably better with Hornady Steel Match 125 grain and Atlanta Arms mid-grade 124 grain ammunition. I just moved on with the other 2 loads and saved the Federal 150 grain for my Glocks.

[GyroF-16]

So...
I put the 13 lb spring back into the LTT Elite and went to the range today. Went through 150 rds of Syntech 150 gr, and had 3 failures to ignite. One fired on an immediate DA reattempt. The other 2 had good, deep dents in the primers, but no “bang.”

I wrote a review on the Federal website last week,
(Here) https://www.federalpremium.com/products/handgun/syntech/syntech-action-pistol/ae9sjap1

and they emailed me over the weekend. Tomorrow I’ll be packaging the 4 remaining dud rounds (I’ve had a total of 11 in the last lot), and will let them arrange pickup with UPS.

I think I’m going to relegate my remaining 1200 rds to practice, and use the 147 gr load I’ve worked up (and verified PF) for any significant match going forward. The WSP primers I’ve been using have given me exactly 1 failure to ignite on the last 10k rounds. I think I’ll go with a known good performer.

[YVK]

Just went through Area 1 match with this ammo, didn't finish the round count but it is probably in high 400s. No issues. Hopefully, it was just a bad lot.

[GyroF-16]

Just went through Area 1 match with this ammo, didn't finish the round count but it is probably in high 400s. No issues. Hopefully, it was just a bad lot.

Do you recall the lot number that you had issues with?

Mine ended in V22213

[Jim Watson]

Catalyst primer is an all new unleaded mix, supposedly passing Milspec.
Sounds like it is not ready for limber spring competition guns.

[GyroF-16]

Catalyst primer is an all new unleaded mix, supposedly passing Milspec.
Sounds like it is not ready for limber spring competition guns.

Yes, that’s what I’m concluding.

Sounds like the perfect primer to put on a round marketed for “Action Pistol” and “The Official Ammunition of USPSA.”
(sarcasm)

[Suvorov]

Catalyst primer is an all new unleaded mix, supposedly passing Milspec.
Sounds like it is not ready for limber spring competition guns.

I guess that is why the M9 trials required such high hammer energy requirements.

Has anyone had issues with 16lb “D” springs?

[GJM]

Here is something I noticed about the 150 grain 9mm load. When I put my “regular” 22 rounds into my P10F 140 mm magazines (OEM mag plus CZ Custom baseplate), the 150 grain Syntech bullets apparently have more volume than 115 and 124 ball, and will not function with 22 rounds.

[Jim Watson]

I guess that is why the M9 trials required such high hammer energy requirements.

Has anyone had issues with 16lb “D” springs?

Sort of. Probably then related to "submachine gun" primers.

I have wondered about these 11-13 lb springs.
People shooting Sig Sauers are running on the ragged edge with spring replacement every X number of rounds and the Berettas likely the same way even with styphnate primers.

I had misfires with a 17 lb spring in 1911, 19 is fine, 23 is GI.

[GyroF-16]

I have wondered about these 11-13 lb springs.
People shooting Sig Sauers are running on the ragged edge with spring replacement every X number of rounds and the Berettas likely the same way even with styphnate primers.


Well, I’m pretty sure the 12 lb spring I had in there (that functioned fine for at least 2000 rounds with Syntech, plus more than 2000 rds with WSP primers) isn’t any weaker than on day one. I bought 2 more spare 12 lb springs from LTT several months ago. When I removed the 12 lb spring with 4K+ rounds on it, it was slightly longer (as measured with a micrometer) than my 2 new 12 lb springs. So it hasn’t worn out yet. And it still reliably ignites WSP primers just fine.

[GyroF-16]

Update-
I sent several of the unfired cartridges with deeply dented primers in to Federal (at their request).
The emailed me yesterday and said that:

“The examiner for the Syntech you returned, stated there were abnormalities with the primers that caused the misfires.”

They then offered to take back the 150 I fired cartridges remaining from that lot, and 1000 other cartridges from another lot, and replace them with new ammunition.

I’ve already fired 150 of the rounds from that second lot. I wanted to verify whether it would be reliable to shooting matches. All 150 rounds worked fine with the 12 pound spring in the 92 LTT Elite.
So, while I am happy to send back the remaining 150 from the bad lot, I’m reluctant to return rounds from the lot that I’ve already validated, as I will have to test some ammunition from whatever new lot they send me.

So, my conclusion is that I was dealing with a bad lot of ammo (primers). Since that lot had approximately a dozen bad primers in the thousand rounds that I received.

Anyway, I’m a little more willing to try some more, although I’ll test around 150 rounds of any new lot, to try to ensure reliable primer function.

With that in mind, Brownell’s has the 150 gr Syntech on sale. With the codes NFA, NFB, NFC, they’ll take $10/$20/$30 off orders of $100/$175/$250 respectively, with free shipping.
So, after tax, I got 1500 rds of the 150 gr Syntech for $332.67 - $0.22 a round isn’t bad for this stuff.