P320 X Five Legion on PreSale

[Zincwarrior]

Apologies if this has been posted.

Looks like Sig has tweaked the XFive a whole month after i bought mine, with a new Legion version. Looks like the primary difference is a Tungsten grip module that increases the weight to 43.5 ounces with the magazine and magwell. Take off the magwell and its right in line with the Walther steel Frame Q5 that came out in January.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/05/21/p320-xfive-legion/
38368

[LittleLebowski]

Not seeing it on Brownells yet unless this is it.

https://www.brownells.com/firearms/handguns/semi-auto/p320-9mm-x-series-prod127925.aspx?avs%7cCartridge_1=APP_9%2bmm%2bLug er&avs%7cMake_3=Sig%2520Sauer&psize=96

[Zincwarrior]

Not seeing it on Brownells yet unless this is it.

https://www.brownells.com/firearms/handguns/semi-auto/p320-9mm-x-series-prod127925.aspx?avs%7cCartridge_1=APP_9%2bmm%2bLug er&avs%7cMake_3=Sig%2520Sauer&psize=96

That looks like the current XFive Big L. Notice the 21 rounds mags.
Its just now on presale. This looks like it has more info.
https://www.osagecountyguns.com/blog/news/sig-sauer/sig-p320-x5-legion-coming/
https://www.osagecountyguns.com/sig-sauer-320x5-9-legion-r2.html
https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/219943

Note, not shilling for Sig here, mildly annoyed this appears just after I get the current one and trigger job. Would have liked the extra weight for competition.

[Tokarev]

I imagine the heavy grip module will be available alone at some point.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[MrInox]

Id buy an aluminum grip module for the p320c

[BobRockefeller]

At some point, if you want a metal gun, you need to buy a metal gun. P226 Legion SAO?

[ChaseN]

At some point, if you want a metal gun, you need to buy a metal gun. P226 Legion SAO?

Unless the point is to shoot said metal gun in USPSA Production, in which case the p226 SAO is a no-go. The X Five and the steel PPQ are pretty much tailor made for production.

[BobRockefeller]

Unless the point is to shoot said metal gun in USPSA Production, in which case the p226 SAO is a no-go. The X Five and the steel PPQ are pretty much tailor made for production.

While I agree the X-FIVE Legion will be a fine competition pistol (the Q5 Match SF is a metal gun), USPSA Production is dominated by the metal CZs and Tanfoglios.

The cool thing about the X-FIVE Legion is that one can compete with, and carry, a very similar trigger and operating system: X-FIVE (Legion or not) in competition, X-COMPACT in the nightstand, and X-CARRY on the hip. All with, or without, optics.

[Alpha Sierra]

At some point, if you want a metal gun, you need to buy a metal gun. P226 Legion SAO?

How is a P320 with a steel slide and tungsten frame not a metal gun?

[Alpha Sierra]

USPSA Production is dominated by the metal CZs and Tanfoglios.

The people who are winning with those pistols can win with just about anything of comparable performance from some other maker. There's a lot of "chasing the new hotness" going on.

It's only a matter of time before one of the really good ones wins a national championship with a heavy, striker fired match pistol. Thumbless Korean...…..

[BobRockefeller]

How is a P320 with a steel slide and tungsten frame not a metal gun?

It would be a “metal gun,” in my view, if the frame was all tungsten. SIG has injected tungsten (a clever idea) into the polymer of their frame to achieve their weight target.

[BobRockefeller]

The people who are winning with those pistols can win with just about anything of comparable performance from some other maker. There's a lot of "chasing the new hotness" going on.

It's only a matter of time before one of the really good ones wins a national championship with a heavy, striker fired match pistol. Thumbless Korean...…..

There is a lot of “use the gun that last year’s winner used” going on. As in all sports. But the top guys pick the gun they think they have the best chance of winning with. Hwansik Kim is running a Q5 SF this year, so we’ll see how soon he can win major events with it.

But that’s not my point. At $900+ the X-FIVE Legion will be a fine competition pistol, but it is getting into the price range of the already proven “metal guns.”

In my case, I will probably get one after they are out and the initial sell out is over. It may well end up replacing the P320 full-size build I’m working on now for USPSA Production/IDPA ESP. I only wish SIG had designed for a total weight that would allow it to run in IDPA ESP with the magwell.

[Zincwarrior]

Unless the point is to shoot said metal gun in USPSA Production, in which case the p226 SAO is a no-go. The X Five and the steel PPQ are pretty much tailor made for production.

Exactly. A 1911 style with manual safety is a different animal.

[Zincwarrior]

While I agree the X-FIVE Legion will be a fine competition pistol (the Q5 Match SF is a metal gun), USPSA Production is dominated by the metal CZs and Tanfoglios.

The cool thing about the X-FIVE Legion is that one can compete with, and carry, a very similar trigger and operating system: X-FIVE (Legion or not) in competition, X-COMPACT in the nightstand, and X-CARRY on the hip. All with, or without, optics.

Indeed. I think both they and Walther are going for the Production / SSP / ESP market. They have an advantage in that these look to be half the cost of a CZ. Plus its DAO (3lb trigger is not a DA to me but whatever) vs. DA/SA or DA with manual safety.

[YVK]

I think both they and Walther are going for the Production / SSP / ESP market. .

They are going for carry optics market. Their top sponsored shooters are #1 and #2 in that division respectively, already winning with regular X5 and Q5. CO is the fastest growing division, according to USPSA stats. With CO weight limit now at 45 oz (hence X5 Legion weight) people started to push CZs into that division too. SIG and Walther are trying to protect their turf.

[Zincwarrior]

A good point.

[Bill]

Anybody have any more info about the tungsten infusion dealie with the new frame? Does it have Tungsten inserts hidden here and there in pockets of the polymer (like a tungsten skeleton), or has tungsten powder (is that even a thing?) infused into the polymer at a raw material level, before molding? I'm certainly interested in feeling how the gun balances with the new frame.

I'd also be surprised if these frames ever become avail. separately. Sig's whole Legion marketing scheme is exclusivity. If you want the Legion, but the whole legion. Might soften up the "regular" X-5 market though, as the real gamers make the switch.

[Magsz]

There is a lot of “use the gun that last year’s winner used” going on. As in all sports. But the top guys pick the gun they think they have the best chance of winning with. Hwansik Kim is running a Q5 SF this year, so we’ll see how soon he can win major events with it.

But that’s not my point. At $900+ the X-FIVE Legion will be a fine competition pistol, but it is getting into the price range of the already proven “metal guns.”

In my case, I will probably get one after they are out and the initial sell out is over. It may well end up replacing the P320 full-size build I’m working on now for USPSA Production/IDPA ESP. I only wish SIG had designed for a total weight that would allow it to run in IDPA ESP with the magwell.

Not even close. By the time you outfit the popular DA/SA metal guns you're looking at 1500-1700 dollars. This pistol offers exceptional value for the dollar, as did the original X5.

Also, plenty of national championships have already been won by striker fired plastic guns. Im not sure why everyone thinks that DA/SA is the ONLY way to go with production class. It makes life easier but its not a replacement for skill.

[BobRockefeller]

Also, plenty of national championships have already been won by striker fired plastic guns. Im not sure why everyone thinks that DA/SA is the ONLY way to go with production class. It makes life easier but its not a replacement for skill.

It’s the shooter’s skills. But Ben Stoeger has won four out of the last five USPSA Production Division National Championships with a full metal DA/SA (CZ and Tanfo).

[GJM]

My wife has been shooting a pair of 320 X5 pistols and really liking them. We got her a pair of the new 320 Legions. She really likes them but has been having sporadic stoppages with both of them, using 115 ball PMC and AE which runs fine in her other X5 pistols.

After a fair amount of trouble shooting, switching slides and recoil springs, the trouble seems to be with the Legion lowers. I have no idea what is going on, but a difference is the Tungsten in the Legion lowers which may change the characteristics of the polymer lowers.

[cornstalker]

My wife has been shooting a pair of 320 X5 pistols and really liking them. We got her a pair of the new 320 Legions. She really likes them but has been having sporadic stoppages with both of them, using 115 ball PMC and AE which runs fine in her other X5 pistols.

After a fair amount of trouble shooting, switching slides and recoil springs, the trouble seems to be with the Legion lowers. I have no idea what is going on, but a difference is the Tungsten in the Legion lowers which may change the characteristics of the polymer lowers.

That sucks. Are you going to try heavier bullets?

[tcba_joe]

Anybody have any more info about the tungsten infusion dealie with the new frame? Does it have Tungsten inserts hidden here and there in pockets of the polymer (like a tungsten skeleton), or has tungsten powder (is that even a thing?) infused into the polymer at a raw material level, before molding? I'm certainly interested in feeling how the gun balances with the new frame.

I'd also be surprised if these frames ever become avail. separately. Sig's whole Legion marketing scheme is exclusivity. If you want the Legion, but the whole legion. Might soften up the "regular" X-5 market though, as the real gamers make the switch.

It's tungsten powder mixed into the plastic.

On another board it was said the heavy module would be available separately, but not in the gray.

[ranger]

Tungsten grip module now available from SIG Store

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p320-x-series-txg-grip-module-assembly.html?utm_campaign=TXG_GRIP_MODS&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua

[backtrail540]

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p320-x-series-txg-grip-module-assembly.html?utm_source=FB&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=TXGGRIPMODLAUNCH_FB

Oops he beat me to it

[TicTacticalTimmy]

My wife has been shooting a pair of 320 X5 pistols and really liking them. We got her a pair of the new 320 Legions. She really likes them but has been having sporadic stoppages with both of them, using 115 ball PMC and AE which runs fine in her other X5 pistols.

After a fair amount of trouble shooting, switching slides and recoil springs, the trouble seems to be with the Legion lowers. I have no idea what is going on, but a difference is the Tungsten in the Legion lowers which may change the characteristics of the polymer lowers.

Interesting... I wonder if the tungsten makes the plastic frame less flexible, leading to stoppages similar to those attributed to WMLs in certain plastic pistols

[John Hearne]

After a fair amount of trouble shooting, switching slides and recoil springs, the trouble seems to be with the Legion lowers. I have no idea what is going on, but a difference is the Tungsten in the Legion lowers which may change the characteristics of the polymer lowers.

This is not the first time that Sig changed the weight/composition of the frame and encountered problems. Admittedly, with the stainless frames, it was longevity issues, not feeding issues.

[GJM]

Interesting... I wonder if the tungsten makes the plastic frame less flexible, leading to stoppages similar to those attributed to WMLs in certain plastic pistols


This is not the first time that Sig changed the weight/composition of the frame and encountered problems. Admittedly, with the stainless frames, it was longevity issues, not feeding issues.

It is probably premature to say whether it is the tungsten change now, but it will probably become clear as more shooters get them and accumulate high round counts.

[matt7184]

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Handguns/320-Legion-recoil-spring-question-FTEject-with-14-pound-spring-/14-189808/

Discussion on recoil springs here. I haven't had issues with my non Legion X5 + RDS and even a 15# recoil spring (no issue all the way down to even 10# spring). I should be taking out my new Legion X5 out early next week and plan to test it out with various loads and the included 12# spring.

Not really crazy over the new LCI barrel hood cut and the Legion barrel doesnt seem to have as much pre-tensioning as my other non Legion X5.

[bwswanson]

My wife has been shooting a pair of 320 X5 pistols and really liking them. We got her a pair of the new 320 Legions. She really likes them but has been having sporadic stoppages with both of them, using 115 ball PMC and AE which runs fine in her other X5 pistols.

After a fair amount of trouble shooting, switching slides and recoil springs, the trouble seems to be with the Legion lowers. I have no idea what is going on, but a difference is the Tungsten in the Legion lowers which may change the characteristics of the polymer lowers.

GJM any update on this?

[GJM]

GJM any update on this?

She has been shooting a pair of 320 X5 pistols in matches while she sorts it out. Still TBD.

[Clusterfrack]

My wife has been shooting a pair of 320 X5 pistols and really liking them. We got her a pair of the new 320 Legions. She really likes them but has been having sporadic stoppages with both of them, using 115 ball PMC and AE which runs fine in her other X5 pistols.

After a fair amount of trouble shooting, switching slides and recoil springs, the trouble seems to be with the Legion lowers. I have no idea what is going on, but a difference is the Tungsten in the Legion lowers which may change the characteristics of the polymer lowers.

Well, that's a bummer. I haven't had a chance to try the heavy gripframe yet, but was going to try to Pro-Deal one to swap onto one of my 320s.

It isn't surprising that adding powdered W would significantly change the material properties of nylon. So that's a reasonable explanation, unless there's some mechanical interference with the slide somewhere.

I avoid 115 gr 9mm for multiple reasons, but a Production gun should be able to shoot any bullet weight reliably.

[ranger]

LGS had a Legion on shelf for $919. Guy at counter had no idea about the tungsten and other goodies. Just another black (grey) pistol to him! I resisted and walked out - I was picking up powder.

[Zincwarrior]

LGS had a Legion on shelf for $919. Guy at counter had no idea about the tungsten and other goodies. Just another black (grey) pistol to him! I resisted and walked out - I was picking up powder.
Bought the tungsten grip for my new standard X5. It's 41.9 ounces without the magwell. Took about 200 Rounds to break in.

[ranger]

I wonder about buying the tungsten lower and a used 320 full size and building the total pistol. Would this be cheaper than the Legion? Lots of traffic on BE about the Legion barrel design fogging up DPPs.

[ranger]

Now PSA has the 320 Legion on their daily special - $899.99 I think.

[Zincwarrior]

I wonder about buying the tungsten lower and a used 320 full size and building the total pistol. Would this be cheaper than the Legion? Lots of traffic on BE about the Legion barrel design fogging up DPPs.

I acquired the regular P 320 X5 just a few weeks before announced so acquired a tungsten grip and shot 200 rounds last weekend.


The first 100, the pistol was cycling EXTREMELY slowly. Ka....chunk, Ka....chunk. I could watch it cycle. At one point it failed to go completely into battery and sprayed me with exhaust and oil (I had oiled it heavily like I used to do my 1911 as part of breaking it in).

But after that the cycling speeded up to normal and it was firing just fine. It was as accurate as the original X5. The recoil was good. It was heavy. Somewhat difficult to shoot weak hand with my tennis elbow. Fit of the grip to the rest of the pistol was excellent, and no issue.

[GJM]

My wife loves the tungsten frame Legion, and has been shooting them going on a year. She just discovered that her main training Legion developed a crack in the frame. Best estimate is 25,000 rounds. We spent 40 minutes on hold for Sig CS this afternoon, and never got thru. On the bright side, she broke four C-More RTS2 optics on that pistol, so the tungsten frame has been more reliable than the optics. :(

56234

[MGW]

If it helps every companies customer service I’ve dealt with the last few weeks has been very difficult to get in touch with.

[Jesting Devil]

I have a friend who works at Sig, their office has need hit by Covid pretty hard so I’m not surprised.

[Steven T]

GJM was this the same pistol that broke the takedown lever recently?

[GJM]

GJM was this the same pistol that broke the takedown lever recently?

Yes.

[Sauer Koch]

Any other reports of this happening?