The Art and Science of Keeping Your 1911 Running

[Bergeron]

I'd be real reluctant to take a 1911 that I liked and had for years to try to improve its cosmetics with my own hands instead of a more experienced smith.

I've found that blue guns can sometimes save me money and effort. I've got two Wilson blue guns with the Wilson factory "high grip" cut to contrast against my Colt and SA with their corresponding "Mil-Spec" sort of grip. It's easier to see a difference in the guns (and sure, the Wilson grip is pretty) than it is to feel any kind of difference.

[awp_101]

first of all, HAHHAHAHAHAHA

I tried to word my post in an attempt to avoid me doing the work as these hands have zero finesse.

FWIW my post was in jest. I’m willing to experiment and fiddle with things but I’ll usually pay a professional when a “whoops!” means an expensive fix or a complete replacement. BTDT and learned the hard way with an N Frame S&W…

[SW CQB 45]

this was a gift to me in 1988 and my 1990s first attempt in fitting a grip safety... I over cut the frame in several areas.

https://i.imgur.com/wQM41yOh.jpg

ACW before current ACW fixed some areas but not all could be fixed.

https://i.imgur.com/btkVnzeh.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/WUaJCeUh.jpg

Then most recent, I had the front strap checkered and high cut front strap!

https://i.imgur.com/e7VMdTMh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gXR1QKEh.jpg

I might see if the latter would be willing/able to high cut before I attempt any hack job.

[DDTSGM]

this was a gift to me in 1988 and my 1990s first attempt in fitting a grip safety... I over cut the frame in several areas.

https://i.imgur.com/wQM41yOh.jpg

Then most recent, I had the front strap checkered and high cut front strap!

https://i.imgur.com/e7VMdTMh.jpg

I might see if the latter would be willing/able to high cut before I attempt any hack job.

That's nice work, I snipped and put them together side by side. You can tell how little was removed and how smooth the work is finished. Did it make a big difference in feel - talking about the cut not the checkering.

[SW CQB 45]

that high cut on the officers is very nice. I can feel a difference because the cut is distributed further up the trigger guard...

it is my preferred high cut style, but as the Janitor said, I can still shoot it... so its just a want, not really a need.

Insert Original Veruca Salt... I want it

https://i.imgur.com/jsVKttkh.jpg

[Bergeron]

I love seeing a pistol grow up in stages!

[SW CQB 45]

anyone got the blues? Dan Wesson Blued Valor 5" .45 acp!

I bought this dude on a whim as I always thought this piece was coo. They dried up and almost nonexistent on the used market. Its a nice piece.... needed some tuning on the extractor and I did some other mods. I ran 100 rounds down range yesterday and it was hot.

I was sweaty but I thought I was being careful and wiping any sweat off.

I take it home, and a few hours later... I take it apart and there was a small rust blob underneath the slide stop and thumb safety that ate the bluing. URGHHH!!!

should I have some spray oil and after shooting, coat it down in some rags?

or silicone cloth, rig rag but none of that would have prevented the rust underneath the two parts that also had plenty of oil there too.

I did use some old EWL, and I looked it up and it's a CLP. "our enhanced preservative immediately bonds itself and forms a barrier film on the surface that displaces water and provides a corrosion resistant barrier against rust and dirt."

I would assume, the few hours was a few too many to address this blued 1911.

https://i.imgur.com/LLj6Akyh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uNmEjvTh.jpg

[Ichiban]

anyone got the blues? Dan Wesson Blued Valor 5" .45 acp!

I bought this dude on a whim as I always thought this piece was coo. They dried up and almost nonexistent on the used market. Its a nice piece.... needed some tuning on the extractor and I did some other mods. I ran 100 rounds down range yesterday and it was hot.

I was sweaty but I thought I was being careful and wiping any sweat off.

I take it home, and a few hours later... I take it apart and there was a small rust blob underneath the slide stop and thumb safety that ate the bluing. URGHHH!!!

should I have some spray oil and after shooting, coat it down in some rags?

or silicone cloth, rig rag but none of that would have prevented the rust underneath the two parts that also had plenty of oil there too.

I did use some old EWL, and I looked it up and it's a CLP. "our enhanced preservative immediately bonds itself and forms a barrier film on the surface that displaces water and provides a corrosion resistant barrier against rust and dirt."

I would assume, the few hours was a few too many to address this blued 1911.


Probably unnecessary advice but don't forget to check under the grip panels. That has always been my problem area.

[HeavyDuty]

anyone got the blues? Dan Wesson Blued Valor 5" .45 acp!

I bought this dude on a whim as I always thought this piece was coo. They dried up and almost nonexistent on the used market. Its a nice piece.... needed some tuning on the extractor and I did some other mods. I ran 100 rounds down range yesterday and it was hot.

I was sweaty but I thought I was being careful and wiping any sweat off.

I take it home, and a few hours later... I take it apart and there was a small rust blob underneath the slide stop and thumb safety that ate the bluing. URGHHH!!!

should I have some spray oil and after shooting, coat it down in some rags?

or silicone cloth, rig rag but none of that would have prevented the rust underneath the two parts that also had plenty of oil there too.

I did use some old EWL, and I looked it up and it's a CLP. "our enhanced preservative immediately bonds itself and forms a barrier film on the surface that displaces water and provides a corrosion resistant barrier against rust and dirt."

I would assume, the few hours was a few too many to address this blued 1911.

https://i.imgur.com/LLj6Akyh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uNmEjvTh.jpg

Nice 1911! I’m hard on bluing, so I stick with stainless for anything I’ll carry.

[Caballoflaco]

anyone got the blues? Dan Wesson Blued Valor 5" .45 acp!

I bought this dude on a whim as I always thought this piece was coo. They dried up and almost nonexistent on the used market. Its a nice piece.... needed some tuning on the extractor and I did some other mods. I ran 100 rounds down range yesterday and it was hot.

I was sweaty but I thought I was being careful and wiping any sweat off.

I take it home, and a few hours later... I take it apart and there was a small rust blob underneath the slide stop and thumb safety that ate the bluing. URGHHH!!!

should I have some spray oil and after shooting, coat it down in some rags?

or silicone cloth, rig rag but none of that would have prevented the rust underneath the two parts that also had plenty of oil there too.

I did use some old EWL, and I looked it up and it's a CLP. "our enhanced preservative immediately bonds itself and forms a barrier film on the surface that displaces water and provides a corrosion resistant barrier against rust and dirt."

I would assume, the few hours was a few too many to address this blued 1911.

https://i.imgur.com/LLj6Akyh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uNmEjvTh.jpg

That’s one nice blaster.

Unfortunately sweat combined with Southern Humidity is why I can’t own nice things like blued guns. My sweat is extra corrosive and any little bit I miss will eat the bluing off a gun in a day or two. I once corroded the clearcoat off a smith j frame in two days and even my early 3rd gen Glocks with the good tennifer will rust if I’m not careful. I’ll be watching to see if you come up with a solution, but so far I haven’t found a great one.

Speaking of corrosive sweat when I worked at a bike shop we had a dude whose sweat ate half way through the aluminum top-tube of his bicycle one winter when he was using it indoors on a trainer and not wiping it down enough. Some folks just lost the genetic lottery when it comes to corrosion and sweat.

[SW CQB 45]

I recall dripping onto the grip magwell area... I removed the grips and whewwwww.... all good.

I too fall into the corrosive category and can eat alum framed glasses.

my guess, hand sweat got underneath the slide stop and thumb safety even though it had a large accumulation of EWL there, my corrosiveness got it.

Luckily those areas are hidden underneath those parts.

I have some old Militec and doing the heating process on the exterior surfaces in hopes to minimize future issues.

[TOTS]

[QUOTE=SW CQB 45;1374883]anyone got the blues? Dan Wesson Blued Valor 5" .45 acp!

I bought this dude on a whim as I always thought this piece was coo. They dried up and almost nonexistent on the used market. Its a nice piece.... needed some tuning on the extractor and I did some other mods. I ran 100 rounds down range yesterday and it was hot.

I was sweaty but I thought I was being careful and wiping any sweat off.

I take it home, and a few hours later... I take it apart and there was a small rust blob underneath the slide stop and thumb safety that ate the bluing. URGHHH!!!

should I have some spray oil and after shooting, coat it down in some rags?

or silicone cloth, rig rag but none of that would have prevented the rust underneath the two parts that also had plenty of oil there too.

I did use some old EWL, and I looked it up and it's a CLP. "our enhanced preservative immediately bonds itself and forms a barrier film on the surface that displaces water and provides a corrosion resistant barrier against rust and dirt."

I would assume, the few hours was a few too many to address this blued 1911.

QUOTE]
You should love it; I know I do. I have it’s 9mm brother.

91817

[03RN]

It was last September when my extractor in my loaded failed so I tweaked it. It's been fine since and has been my most shot gun for the last year. I figure it time to replace it. I was going to go with a Wilson bp one but found the c&s ultimate extractor and ordered it.

I'm not sure I've heard much about their extractors. Anybody here use one?

[NPV]

It was last September when my extractor in my loaded failed so I tweaked it. It's been fine since and has been my most shot gun for the last year. I figure it time to replace it. I was going to go with a Wilson bp one but found the c&s ultimate extractor and ordered it.

I'm not sure I've heard much about their extractors. Anybody here use one?

I have not but have seen their claim to use the OG spec spring steel which has me intrigued. I’m very interested to hear your feedback, I likely won’t need extractors anytime soon but may order one just to stash away for the inevitable.

[fatdog]

the c&s ultimate extractor ...Anybody here use one?

Sample of one. I had extractor tension problems with both my Rock River Poly guns. One got a Wilson bulletproof which needed a bit of top edge filing because of barrel hood rubbing, and some time in the Wiegand tension device to be just right tension wise and it has been perfect since. On my other poly, I dropped the C&S ultimate in, no adjustment needed, tension was within the spec range per my weigand gauge right out of the box, no interference I could detect, passed 10-8 test, no drama of any sort and it still runs. Had to remove some metal on the rear surface to make it slide flush but same is true for an out of the box Wilson and these guns.

So my first impression is good but I doubt I have quite 1K through that gun since the installation, so no comment on durability or how it wears or holds its tension. I think any extractor might be able to hold up to this low round count. Probably not the data you are looking for in terms of use.

[Evil_Ed]

It was last September when my extractor in my loaded failed so I tweaked it. It's been fine since and has been my most shot gun for the last year. I figure it time to replace it. I was going to go with a Wilson bp one but found the c&s ultimate extractor and ordered it.

I'm not sure I've heard much about their extractors. Anybody here use one?

Not their ultimate extractor, but when I got into 1911s in the late 2000s/early 2010s I stocked up on a handful of C&S regular extractors (normal ones, both S70 and S80). They seem to be all spring steel and IIRC came with a rockwell hardness test? I might be misremembering, but they seemed nicer than the Ed Brown or Wilson extractors I was buying at the time, with a caveat - the caveat was, they were basically original old-school extractors. Edges, etc. You would need to dress them, break edges, etc if you wanted max reliability, like you would need to for an old USGI surplus gun if you were doing a reliability job on it. In some ways it's cool; you get complete control over it. In other ways...really annoying to need to do that :o

I wouldn't have any hesitation on using a C&S if I wanted an as-designed to-spec 1911 extractor. Current day Wilsons are apparently cut with a slight bend in them to keep tension so you don't even have to bend them, etc but with how variable 1911 slides can be, I don't know if that's a benefit or a hinderance especially as you stray further from GI guns.

If their ultimate extractor takes care of some of the manual work you'd need to otherwise do with a small file or sandpaper, it sounds like it'd be a winner to me.

[SwampDweller]

What is the most reliable out-of-the-box 1911? I've never been able to get one to go at least 1k rounds without a stoppage (properly lubed and maintained) out of all my Colts and Springfields I've owned. I love the 1911 but it just seems like a finicky pistol... yet I still dream of owning a stone cold reliable 1911 out of the box...

[45dotACP]

What is the most reliable out-of-the-box 1911? I've never been able to get one to go at least 1k rounds without a stoppage (properly lubed and maintained) out of all my Colts and Springfields I've owned. I love the 1911 but it just seems like a finicky pistol... yet I still dream of owning a stone cold reliable 1911 out of the box...That's a tough question.

Can't say I've ever had a Colt or Springfield that was good to go from the start unfortunately.

My 3,000 dollar Alchemy was reliable from the box. Literally every other 1911 I've owned, I have had to at least tension an extractor.

Some I did before shooting the gun though. My Springfield RO and RO compact have been very reliable but not perfect. My RRA poly is very good as well. The Colt I own was a mess.

I've yet to have a gun that's been completely malfunction free. Sometimes you just get a gremlin in the works. But if I get a pattern of inaccuracy or unreliability, I know there's something deeply wrong with how the gun was set up or made.

My 1911s, being correctly set up are every bit as reliable as the Glocks, CZs, Beretta 92s and M&Ps I've owned. Except for that frigging Colt.

The problem is the set up.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Evil_Ed]

What is the most reliable out-of-the-box 1911? I've never been able to get one to go at least 1k rounds without a stoppage (properly lubed and maintained) out of all my Colts and Springfields I've owned. I love the 1911 but it just seems like a finicky pistol... yet I still dream of owning a stone cold reliable 1911 out of the box...

Well, all the Colts I've bought new since 2007 or so in 45ACP have all run, and run, and run, and run out of the box. The only fiddling I've had to do was checking the extractor for correct tension since Colt just drops extractors in and ships them out the door. (To be fair to Colt, most of the time they work just fine that way...)

This includes Series 70 repros (2), S80 Gov't Models (2), a Combat Unit Railgun, a Combat Elite Commander, a Combat Commander...I think I'm missing a couple, hmm. Anyway. One 9mm Combat Elite Commander had some issues, but the next 9mm lightweight Commander has run flawlessly, as has a Custom Carry Limited also in 9mm. Oh, and the 38 Super Colts I've had all ran well except one Gov't model, which didn't like the one Colt factory mag that it came with...but had no problems with any of the Metalforms or McCormick mags, or other factory Colt mags - just literally the one it came with. Go figure. But, I don't really count 9mm as being super reliable in any 1911-pattern gun anyway since it was an afterthought/adaptation of the system.

What model of Colt(s) or Springfield(s) did you have problems with? What magazines were you running; factory Colt or Springfield? Wilson Combat, Metalform, Checkmate?

What ammo were you using? There's plenty of bad ammo and mags that will bring any 1911 to it's knees.

I've never had a Springfield in 45ACP, just 38 Super, but it never had a problem once I replaced the extractor with one that wasn't a MIM piece of junk (at the time I bought it, Springfield was putting MIM in everything on the lower end, which the Mil-Spec was)...but, all my 1911s since then have been Colts, or surplus/GI guns.

The only Colt I ever had a problem with was a used 70 Series from the early 1970s that exhibited some of the very common Colt problems of guns from that era, and would not run no matter what.

Edited to add - this is just kind of a long way of saying that I would be very surprised if a new made/purchased Colt had any serious problems that wasn't fixable with good mags, good ammo and maybe an extractor tweak out of the box today. Whenever I go to the range with one of the 1911s it's with a minimum of 200 rounds, and I literally cannot even think of the last time I had any kind of a malfunction that I did not create myself with the gun.

[JonInWA]

My Colt Series 70 stainless Repro had some minor brass-to-face for the first 100-200 rounds, but settled down on its own without any extractor tweaking needed. It's by far been my most reliable, and most reliable out-of-the-box 1911.

https://i.imgur.com/6Pv8Oqwh.jpg

Best, Jon

[TOTS]

My Colt, Dan Wesson, SIG, and Springfield 1911s have all ran 100% out of the box. All with the factory extractor tension. My Dan Wesson has gone 3500 rnds between cleaning with no bobbles. I just added clp when the slide started slowing down. Caveat emptor; I only used Wilson mags with the exception of 2 Checkmate mags that came with the DW, and the 2 factory mags that came with the rest of the guns. And all are 5 inch guns.

My DW is in 9mm and has 7K with (3) malfunctions that I’ll count against it. I read everything that everyone says…but I’m convinced that 1911s are reliable.
95472
What 3500 rnds does to a clean barrel.

[SwampDweller]

Well, all the Colts I've bought new since 2007 or so in 45ACP have all run, and run, and run, and run out of the box. The only fiddling I've had to do was checking the extractor for correct tension since Colt just drops extractors in and ships them out the door. (To be fair to Colt, most of the time they work just fine that way...)

This includes Series 70 repros (2), S80 Gov't Models (2), a Combat Unit Railgun, a Combat Elite Commander, a Combat Commander...I think I'm missing a couple, hmm. Anyway. One 9mm Combat Elite Commander had some issues, but the next 9mm lightweight Commander has run flawlessly, as has a Custom Carry Limited also in 9mm. Oh, and the 38 Super Colts I've had all ran well except one Gov't model, which didn't like the one Colt factory mag that it came with...but had no problems with any of the Metalforms or McCormick mags, or other factory Colt mags - just literally the one it came with. Go figure. But, I don't really count 9mm as being super reliable in any 1911-pattern gun anyway since it was an afterthought/adaptation of the system.

What model of Colt(s) or Springfield(s) did you have problems with? What magazines were you running; factory Colt or Springfield? Wilson Combat, Metalform, Checkmate?

What ammo were you using? There's plenty of bad ammo and mags that will bring any 1911 to it's knees.

I've never had a Springfield in 45ACP, just 38 Super, but it never had a problem once I replaced the extractor with one that wasn't a MIM piece of junk (at the time I bought it, Springfield was putting MIM in everything on the lower end, which the Mil-Spec was)...but, all my 1911s since then have been Colts, or surplus/GI guns.

The only Colt I ever had a problem with was a used 70 Series from the early 1970s that exhibited some of the very common Colt problems of guns from that era, and would not run no matter what.

Edited to add - this is just kind of a long way of saying that I would be very surprised if a new made/purchased Colt had any serious problems that wasn't fixable with good mags, good ammo and maybe an extractor tweak out of the box today. Whenever I go to the range with one of the 1911s it's with a minimum of 200 rounds, and I literally cannot even think of the last time I had any kind of a malfunction that I did not create myself with the gun.

I purely used Wilson Combat mags. As far as ammo, I can't recall all for sure, but mostly Speer Lawman 230gr TMJ.
I'm actually not sure what to make of the WC mags. From what I understood they were supposed to be one of the most reliable 1911 mags you could get, but I've also heard of people having problems with those mags specifically where others worked.

[SwampDweller]

My Colt, Dan Wesson, SIG, and Springfield 1911s have all ran 100% out of the box. All with the factory extractor tension. My Dan Wesson has gone 3500 rnds between cleaning with no bobbles. I just added clp when the slide started slowing down. Caveat emptor; I only used Wilson mags with the exception of 2 Checkmate mags that came with the DW, and the 2 factory mags that came with the rest of the guns. And all are 5 inch guns.

My DW is in 9mm and has 7K with (3) malfunctions that I’ll count against it. I read everything that everyone says…but I’m convinced that 1911s are reliable.
95472
What 3500 rnds does to a clean barrel.

I wish I had your kind of luck with 1911s. If I could find a 1911 that was able to go at least 1k consecutive rounds without a stoppage (provided proper cleaning and lube) and preferably 2k rounds to prove long term reliability, I'd be very tempted to go to that in .45 Auto as my main carry piece.

A couple of questions to the forum in general:

Suppose money was no object; what would be my best bet for a reliable out of the box 1911? Reliable as in, 1k-2k rounds without a stoppage provided proper cleaning and lube. In other words, as reliable as 9mm Glocks and .45 H&Ks.

Also, if money was an object, what then would be my best choice, and how can I make sure it's reliable before I shoot it? (extractor tension, etc)

Before this forum, I'd never heard of Alchemy and a couple of other 1911 makers. It was my understanding that the top dogs were Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, Ed Brown, and Les Bauer. However, I know enough people with Wilsons that weren't all that reliable to raise an eyebrow.

[Ichiban]

I have to say that I've never owned a Colt but I have had Springfields, Dan Wessons, Sigs, Para Ordnances, Smith & Wessons, Kimbers, Wilsons, and Rugers. The only ones I have had problems with were Kimber (minor issues) and Para Ordnance (major issues).

What can I say, I like 1911s but only a few seem to stick around. :eek:

ETA: I think Dan Wesson is the best bang for the buck right now. Many years ago when I got my VBOB I was able to do a side by side with a Ed Brown Kobra Carry at the store (no shooting) and just could not see the where the $1k difference between the two was. Although, if you have the money, you certainly can't go wrong with a Wilson, Nighthawk, etc.

[Rex G]

I purely used Wilson Combat mags. As far as ammo, I can't recall all for sure, but mostly Speer Lawman 230gr TMJ.
I'm actually not sure what to make of the WC mags. From what I understood they were supposed to be one of the most reliable 1911 mags you could get, but I've also heard of people having problems with those mags specifically where others worked.

“Wilson Combat mags” are not all the same. I am no longer familiar with the model number designations and differences, but for some time, the WC magazines were very much manufactured to feed a specific competition bullet configuration, that most competitors tended to use.

My three late-Nineties Kimber pistols would not work with Wilson Combat mags, of the mid/late-Nineties configuration, with rounded-nose FMJ. (Actually, the two mis-named Classic Customs worked with some few vetted Colt 7-round mags, and with 7-round Metalform mags, and the Gold Match insisted upon nothing but McCormick Power Mags. These Kimbers were eventually traded/sold, with prejudice.)

I have bought some WC “Elite Tactical Magazines,” which are reputed to work with real-world defensive ammo. First impressions have been good, but they still need more vetting, which was totally interrupted by the panic-demic, and has not been a priority, since I largely reverted to revolvers, for carry. I bought these Elite Tactical Mags because they clear a Harrison mag well, that is permanently affixed to one of my LBC pistols. I have a few McCormick Power Mags, which also clear the mag well, which is another reason that vetting the WCs has not been a priority.

Having just typed all of this, well, it has given me the fever to go do some Nineteen-Elevening, this week, if I can somehow create the time to do it.

[03RN]

I wouldn't hesitate to buy any Springfield and shoot 50 rounds and call it good. If money was tight I'd go with a milspec or a Garrison and if money wasn't an object I'd go with a Springfield pro.

As it stands my loaded is my most boring gun.

[45dotACP]

I wouldn't hesitate to buy any Springfield and shoot 50 rounds and call it good. If money was tight I'd go with a milspec or a Garrison and if money wasn't an object I'd go with a Springfield pro.

As it stands my loaded is my most boring gun.After I tensioned the extractor on my RO, I took it to a class where I fired almost a thousand rounds without a single cleaning.

Springfield is what I'd choose too.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Evil_Ed]

I purely used Wilson Combat mags. As far as ammo, I can't recall all for sure, but mostly Speer Lawman 230gr TMJ.
I'm actually not sure what to make of the WC mags. From what I understood they were supposed to be one of the most reliable 1911 mags you could get, but I've also heard of people having problems with those mags specifically where others worked.


“Wilson Combat mags” are not all the same. I am no longer familiar with the model number designations and differences, but for some time, the WC magazines were very much manufactured to feed a specific competition bullet configuration, that most competitors tended to use.

My three late-Nineties Kimber pistols would not work with Wilson Combat mags, of the mid/late-Nineties configuration, with rounded-nose FMJ. (Actually, the two mis-named Classic Customs worked with some few vetted Colt 7-round mags, and with 7-round Metalform mags, and the Gold Match insisted upon nothing but McCormick Power Mags. These Kimbers were eventually traded/sold, with prejudice.)

I have bought some WC “Elite Tactical Magazines,” which are reputed to work with real-world defensive ammo. First impressions have been good, but they still need more vetting, which was totally interrupted by the panic-demic, and has not been a priority, since I largely reverted to revolvers, for carry. I bought these Elite Tactical Mags because they clear a Harrison mag well, that is permanently affixed to one of my LBC pistols. I have a few McCormick Power Mags, which also clear the mag well, which is another reason that vetting the WCs has not been a priority.

Having just typed all of this, well, it has given me the fever to go do some Nineteen-Elevening, this week, if I can somehow create the time to do it.

There's a bunch of Wilsons, but the nutshell is -

7 round mags:
* Wilson 47 - 7 round standard mags, good; I believe Heirloom Precision/Jason Burton still uses these by default with no issues. I don't have any, but if Mr. Burton says they're good to go...I'm prepared to take his word for it.
* Wilson 47C-HV - 7 round HD/+P mag, designed for suppressed/hard use/extremely dirty and fouled applications; I use these as my 7 round carry mags. I've got 4 or 5 of these I think.
You don't really need to deviate from these two, in their 7 round lineup.

8 round mags:
* Wilson 47D - 8 round mags, good for maybe 10 uses, then the mag springs take a shit - AVOID. I'm specifically mentioning these because people will buy them and then get tons of misfeeds after a while and blanket declare Wilson mags as junk...they're not junk, these specifically just ship with shit springs. Time has moved on from the late 80s/early 1990s, but they insist on still selling these. If you have these and insist on using them, you can replace the springs with the square wound ones from Wilson, as well as the follower...it basically turns them into 7 round mags, but at least they'll run and won't have feeding problems. The feeding problems in this case btw are that the slide will overrun the feeding round, causing a nose-up jam. Source: Personal experience, including replacing the spring and follower and converting it into a now-reliable 7 round mag.
* 800 series mags (800 or 800A) - these are the Vickers ETM mags with no witness holes/slits in the sides; these are good to go. Personal preference is the 800As as the base pad is slimmer. Mine have all run great. I've got I think 3 of these.
* 500-HD series mags - I like these; again, designated the HD/+P mags. They come in a few flavors. I don't have any of the "normal" 500 mags, only 500x-HD mags. I think I've got 5 of these.

The 800 and 500 series of 8 round mags all have longer mag tubes than the 47D; it's one of the reasons the 47 as a 7 round mag with the 7 round spring and follower works just fine but has problems as an 8 round mag, with the 8 round spring and follower.

Honestly, I've also had really good experiences with Colt factory mags, 7 rounders. I must have like 20 of the things; like 8 or 9 stainless, the rest blued. I've had two 45acp mags that had malformed followers that liked to ride over the slide stop lobe (on multiple guns); those I marked and use them as placeholder mags, but the others...I've got so many rounds through them that I wouldn't hesitate to use any of them as carry mags, either. The Wilsons, before I pack up for the range, I empty them of their usually carry ammo and work them into the mag rotation at the range so they all get used. At the end I'll reload the Wilsons with the carry ammo and blast through that, usually a box of 50 to tie up the end of the session. Reload from a fresh box, and go home.

[Amp]

I purely used Wilson Combat mags. As far as ammo, I can't recall all for sure, but mostly Speer Lawman 230gr TMJ.
I'm actually not sure what to make of the WC mags. From what I understood they were supposed to be one of the most reliable 1911 mags you could get, but I've also heard of people having problems with those mags specifically where others worked.

The original Wilson 8rd mag (47D) is a reliable magazine in most 1911s if they have fresh springs but the springs will weaken if the mag is cycled frequently. The 47D is a 7rd tube and in order to fit 8rds in it the magazine spring's diameter is thinner and they don't hold up under a heavy use schedule. Wilson has improved the mag springs in them in recent years and they do last longer now. I used to replace the springs/followers yearly for the set I use for IDPA. I'm at almost 2 years on the improved springs and they still feed and lock the slide back when empty.

The 8rd ETM is a better mag as it has a tube designed to hold 8rds. The ETM/HD+P and ETM-V/Vickers Duty mags with the flat wire springs are the best 8rd mags I have ever used. They are reliable in every 1911 I've used them in and after years of heavy use, I still haven't had to replace the springs or had the feed lips spread.

[Amp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGBc9XW-wOE&t=614s

[CSW]

I wouldn't hesitate to buy any Springfield and shoot 50 rounds and call it good. If money was tight I'd go with a milspec or a Garrison and if money wasn't an object I'd go with a Springfield pro.

As it stands my loaded is my most boring gun.


After I tensioned the extractor on my RO, I took it to a class where I fired almost a thousand rounds without a single cleaning.

Springfield is what I'd choose too.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

I'll echo what these fellas have said.
My RO elite, commander size has been ultra reliable for me.
I've lost my written down round count, but it's upwards of 3500 now without issues.
I've had ammo that would not fire, but it was the round, not the gun.
If I could find another RO elite champion 9mm, I would buy it...... But the money they Want for a used one on GB is close to a Dan wesson..... AND I just won't do it.

[03RN]

I'll echo what these fellas have said.
My RO elite, commander size has been ultra reliable for me.
I've lost my written down round count, but it's upwards of 3500 now without issues.
I've had ammo that would not fire, but it was the round, not the gun.
If I could find another RO elite champion 9mm, I would buy it...... But the money they Want for a used one on GB is close to a Dan wesson..... AND I just won't do it.

Last year I started getting a lot of failures to feed but were due to oversized reloads. I got a drop gauge and tweaked my seating die and haven't had an issue.

I'm really happy with my lw champion that I got right when I moved to NH in 2020. It's probably over 5k and it hasn't had a malfunction besides with those oversized reloads.

[SwampDweller]

“Wilson Combat mags” are not all the same. I am no longer familiar with the model number designations and differences, but for some time, the WC magazines were very much manufactured to feed a specific competition bullet configuration, that most competitors tended to use.

My three late-Nineties Kimber pistols would not work with Wilson Combat mags, of the mid/late-Nineties configuration, with rounded-nose FMJ. (Actually, the two mis-named Classic Customs worked with some few vetted Colt 7-round mags, and with 7-round Metalform mags, and the Gold Match insisted upon nothing but McCormick Power Mags. These Kimbers were eventually traded/sold, with prejudice.)

I have bought some WC “Elite Tactical Magazines,” which are reputed to work with real-world defensive ammo. First impressions have been good, but they still need more vetting, which was totally interrupted by the panic-demic, and has not been a priority, since I largely reverted to revolvers, for carry. I bought these Elite Tactical Mags because they clear a Harrison mag well, that is permanently affixed to one of my LBC pistols. I have a few McCormick Power Mags, which also clear the mag well, which is another reason that vetting the WCs has not been a priority.

Having just typed all of this, well, it has given me the fever to go do some Nineteen-Elevening, this week, if I can somehow create the time to do it.

Not completely related, but why did you switch to a revolver? Also, which revolver?

Also, what is the "gold standard" most reliable 1911 magazine? WC 7 rounders? Tripp Research? Metalform?

[awp_101]

FYI/FWIW the MTM TMC1911 Tactical Magazine Can 1911 for Pistol Magazine Storage (https://www.amazon.com/MTM-TMC1911-Tactical-Magazine-Storage/dp/B019LIP4I4/ref=sr_1_1?crid=27DWOVAFU4IKR&keywords=MTM+TMC1911+Tactical+Magazine+Can+1911+fo r+Pistol+Magazine+Storage&qid=1665533223&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIwLjAwIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjA uMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=mtm+tmc1911+tactical+magazine+can+1911+for +pistol+magazine+storage%2Caps%2C2210&sr=8-1) is on sale at Amazon for $14.39

95513

[SwampDweller]

https://www.guns.com/firearms/handguns/semi-auto/springfield-armory-professional-custom-1911-.45-45-acp-single-action-7-rounds-5-barrel-new?p=632715&avad=211021_c2b81a0f9&utm_source=AvantLink&utm_campaign=35987&utm_medium=df_NA

Dang, this is the only place I've been able to find a Professional in .45. That price though.

[Robinson]

https://www.guns.com/firearms/handguns/semi-auto/springfield-armory-professional-custom-1911-.45-45-acp-single-action-7-rounds-5-barrel-new?p=632715&avad=211021_c2b81a0f9&utm_source=AvantLink&utm_campaign=35987&utm_medium=df_NA

Dang, this is the only place I've been able to find a Professional in .45. That price though.

My Professional Operator 45 had two malfunctions within the first 100 rounds. But since then it has settled down and is totally reliable.

[SwampDweller]

My Professional Operator 45 had two malfunctions within the first 100 rounds. But since then it has settled down and is totally reliable.

Are there any that just work out of the box 100% like a Glock or HK?

[45dotACP]

Last year I started getting a lot of failures to feed but were due to oversized reloads. I got a drop gauge and tweaked my seating die and haven't had an issue.

I'm really happy with my lw champion that I got right when I moved to NH in 2020. It's probably over 5k and it hasn't had a malfunction besides with those oversized reloads.I had a similar issue. Were you using SWC loads? I got a batch of 200gr SWC loads that would just not feed at all. They didn't feed in any of my 1911s and not even in my g21 or G30. Tried different OAL, crimp...I just couldn't figure it out.

Damn though they were accurate for two or three trigger pulls tho.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Rex G]

Not completely related, but why did you switch to a revolver? Also, which revolver?

Also, what is the "gold standard" most reliable 1911 magazine? WC 7 rounders? Tripp Research? Metalform?

Well, regarding revolvers, I am getting old. I still really like 1911 pistols, but, short-barreled revolvers clear leather/Kydex with less articulation of my gimpy right wrist and gimpy right shoulder. When my right hand is having a bad day, I do not completely trust it to be a reliable platform for reliable auto-loader functioning, or, if shooting lefty, to necessarily be able to reliably run the slide. Plus, none of my 1911 pistols are properly set-up with the thumb safeties for me to use ambidextrously.

Which revolvers? Mostly 2” S&W Model 64 Snub-guns, Ruger SP101, Ruger Speed Six, Ruger GP100.

It ain’t all revolvers. When I feel like concealing a blocky box of Wheaties, a Glock G17 is nice, and ambidextrous. My most-used G17 has never malfunctioned.

I do not know what the latest/greatest “gold standard for 1911 mags is. I have 7-round Colt, 7-round Metalform, McCormick Power Mags, and Wilson Elite Tactical. My most-used 1911 is a Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special, and it is not picky about mags. My Harrison-customized Les Baer Premier II has that darned mag well that get in the way of many floor plates, which is why I bought a batch of the Wilson Elite Tactical Mags.

[Robinson]

Are there any that just work out of the box 100% like a Glock or HK?

Yes. Some of the 1911s I've owned chambered for 45 have worked just fine out of the box.

But on the other hand, I've owned more than one high-end 1911 that needed some extractor tuning or some other fine adjustment. I am willing to accept that, and I always plan to "wring out" a new 1911 to make sure it is squared away before putting it to serious use.

I didn't have to do anything to my Professional Operator other than shoot it to get over the bumps. The gun was pretty tight when I first got it and it has probably loosened up just a little.

I have a Colt Special Combat Government 45 that has fired many thousands of rounds without a single malfunction.

[SwampDweller]

Yes. Some of the 1911s I've owned chambered for 45 have worked just fine out of the box.

But on the other hand, I've owned more than one high-end 1911 that needed some extractor tuning or some other fine adjustment. I am willing to accept that, and I always plan to "wring out" a new 1911 to make sure it is squared away before putting it to serious use.

I didn't have to do anything to my Professional Operator other than shoot it to get over the bumps. The gun was pretty tight when I first got it and it has probably loosened up just a little.

I have a Colt Special Combat Government 45 that has fired many thousands of rounds without a single malfunction.

I see the Special Combat Government 45 is at roughly the $2k price mark (but not in stock anywhere I can find). Does it involve hand tuning from the factory to help ensure reliability?

[03RN]

I had a similar issue. Were you using SWC loads? I got a batch of 200gr SWC loads that would just not feed at all. They didn't feed in any of my 1911s and not even in my g21 or G30. Tried different OAL, crimp...I just couldn't figure it out.

Damn though they were accurate for two or three trigger pulls tho.

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Yea, 200gr swc. It was weird. I couldn't really figure it out. I just had to weed out the bad rounds. It's been a long time since I've had an oversized round though

[45dotACP]

I see the Special Combat Government 45 is at roughly the $2k price mark (but not in stock anywhere I can find). Does it involve hand tuning from the factory to help ensure reliability?Hand tuning is not necessarily a difficult thing to learn. It sounds a lot harder than it really is. We don't need the elven smiths of Lindon to tension an extractor and adjust the deflection.

A small file and a few hours on the internet (I definitely spend a few hours on the internet) is all that's needed to get a functional 1911 assuming the gun doesn't have some dimensional problem.

Unfortunately I don't really know how to tell if the gun is dimensionally messed up. I usually just shoot the gun and hopefully after I did my extractor work there aren't problems. If there are, I just sell them.

I'm no Hilton Yam but I have 1911s that have run more than 3000 rounds without malfunctions of any type. My RRA poly 1911 and Springfield RO have gone thousands of rounds and excluding the horrible SWC rounds that never chambered in a Glock 21 or 30.

My Caspian build was not reliable from the start (it was my first 1911) and is very reliable now. The PSA 1911 that I built for my brother has not malfunctioned in its existence....but my brother is more of a M&P guy. He's maybe fired a thousand rounds through the gun in its whole life.

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[SwampDweller]

Hand tuning is not necessarily a difficult thing to learn. It sounds a lot harder than it really is. We don't need the elven smiths of Lindon to tension an extractor and adjust the deflection.

A small file and a few hours on the internet (I definitely spend a few hours on the internet) is all that's needed to get a functional 1911 assuming the gun doesn't have some dimensional problem.

Unfortunately I don't really know how to tell if the gun is dimensionally messed up. I usually just shoot the gun and hopefully after I did my extractor work there aren't problems. If there are, I just sell them.

I'm no Hilton Yam but I have 1911s that have run more than 3000 rounds without malfunctions of any type. My RRA poly 1911 and Springfield RO have gone thousands of rounds and excluding the horrible SWC rounds that never chambered in a Glock 21 or 30.

My Caspian build was not reliable from the start (it was my first 1911) and is very reliable now. The PSA 1911 that I built for my brother has not malfunctioned in its existence....but my brother is more of a M&P guy. He's maybe fired a thousand rounds through the gun in its whole life.

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Any advice on resources for learning how to tune a 1911 to get it to run reliably? If I could just get a Colt Gov't Model or something and do a little tweaking before I take it to the range and it be reliable, that'd be grand.

[Rex G]

If I could just get a Colt Gov't Model or something and do a little tweaking before I take it to the range and it be reliable, that'd be grand.

Taking a 1911 to the range is necessary, to discover some of the tweaks that may be necessary. Some things, such as extractor tension, can be obvious, without a range trip.

[Robinson]

I see the Special Combat Government 45 is at roughly the $2k price mark (but not in stock anywhere I can find). Does it involve hand tuning from the factory to help ensure reliability?

My particular SCG did not require anything to be adjusted, tuned, or otherwise fiddled with in order to run reliably. It was hand built and tuned by the Colt Custom Shop. They often come up for sale on places like Gunbroker, but they aren't cheap.

[Trooper224]

A few months ago I had the first malfunction, in thousands of rounds, in my Dan Wesson Valor. This was due to an oversize handload. It was bad enough that I broke the extractor getting it out, which improved my mood to no end. It caused me to acquire a case guage which I've lived without all these years, so that's a positive I guess.

I currently have three 1911s: the aforementioned Dan Wesson, a CZ1911A1 and an SA Range Officer in 9mm. All three have been very reliable. None of them are stock, but the only tweaks have been personal preference issues.

The only jammamatic 1911 I've owned, that lived up to the reputation was a Colt Officers Model back in the mid 90s. Everything else, with the exception of the 9mm RO, has been of the traditional five inch .45 format and have run without issue.

Some folks might call that a clue.

[Squib308]

Trooper224

Similar experience for me although no extractor breakage. I’ve started using one of these 7 rd chamber gauge as it doesn’t slow me down too badly like a single round gauge.

https://www.egwguns.com/case-gauge-ammo-checker-45-acp-7-hole

[45dotACP]

Any advice on resources for learning how to tune a 1911 to get it to run reliably? If I could just get a Colt Gov't Model or something and do a little tweaking before I take it to the range and it be reliable, that'd be grand.I tend to hang out over at 1911forum for technical advice on extractors. They've got a sticky in their gunsmith section that's basically a treatise on extractor fit.

Otherwise I think Hilton Yam of 10-8 performance probably sells a more digestible version on a DVD. I think he calls it a "duty tune"

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[19852+]

Any advice on resources for learning how to tune a 1911 to get it to run reliably? If I could just get a Colt Gov't Model or something and do a little tweaking before I take it to the range and it be reliable, that'd be grand.

I would take a Colt Gov. to the range first. My, example of one, ran right from the word go. I did tune it later, I ran experiments with it, but with good ammo and mags it runs. The only time it didn't is when I tried extra light springs, soft ammo, cool new guide rods, cheap mags, etc..

The great thing about a 1911 is that it can be tuned to one's taste, I like mine the way it is but someone else might not.

[JTQ]

Any advice on resources for learning how to tune a 1911 to get it to run reliably? If I could just get a Colt Gov't Model or something and do a little tweaking before I take it to the range and it be reliable, that'd be grand.
"Tweaking" is usually the thing that keeps a 1911 from working. Shoot it first. It may work just fine.

Since there are parts galore for 1911's, and most folks these days started their shooting with Glock's that are basically "Lego's", folks try to "improve" their 1911's by swapping out parts. The way the parts fit is often as important as the quality of the part. The old saying that "there are no drop in parts in a 1911" is pretty accurate.

[SW CQB 45]

Any advice on resources for learning how to tune a 1911 to get it to run reliably? If I could just get a Colt Gov't Model or something and do a little tweaking before I take it to the range and it be reliable, that'd be grand.

I would suggest starting out with a Govt Model (5") and get ammo, quality mags, learn how it works and learn to take it apart (completely).

I started out before the internet and Kuhnhausen book was a regular reference. I bought the Ed Brown 1911 CD and dont think I ever used it.

Watch videos of those in the know.

I attended Colt 1911 Armorer in 2008 and 10-8 Armorer in 2012.

I always wanted to go to a Vickers class.... just not in the stars.

I say shoot it a lot and learn from any issues that might develop. Make sure you are not the issue.

Plenty of resources around here or 1911forum.

most important.. have fun.

Here is my first 1911 that my dad gave me. Colt S70 Govt Model. That was pure 1990s garage smith mistakes and it shows but it ran.

https://i.imgur.com/1PhKR1gh.jpg

[SwampDweller]

"Tweaking" is usually the thing that keeps a 1911 from working. Shoot it first. It may work just fine.

Since there are parts galore for 1911's, and most folks these days started their shooting with Glock's that are basically "Lego's", folks try to "improve" their 1911's by swapping out parts. The way the parts fit is often as important as the quality of the part. The old saying that "there are no drop in parts in a 1911" is pretty accurate.

Really by "tweaking" I mean things that are able to be checked before heading to the range, like extractor tension. I'm the last person who wants to go changing out parts on a serious use pistol. All of my previous 1911s except one had little things here and there that caused bobbles but I wonder if I had the know how, maybe I would still have them. But then I think "why bother when I can grab an HK45 or Glock 21 out of the box and go thousands of rounds"

Somehow, though, I always end up wanting to try my luck at a reliable 1911 one more time.

[45dotACP]

But then I think "why bother when I can grab an HK45 or Glock 21 out of the box and go thousands of rounds"

In my experience, the glock 21 and glock 30 are 80 percent of the capability of a bullseye level 1911, for easily 20 percent of the cost.

Very tempting.

If you're like me, who can't shoot a sub 1" group at 25 yards, it's basically a no brainer.

Glock .45 pistols are just stupidly accurate.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Caballoflaco]

In my experience, the glock 21 and glock 30 are 80 percent of the capability of a bullseye level 1911, for easily 20 percent of the cost.

Very tempting.

If you're like me, who can't shoot a sub 1" group at 25 yards, it's basically a no brainer.

Glock .45 pistols are just stupidly accurate.

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Don’t forget the M&P 45 which also gets consistently good reviews from people around here.

[45dotACP]

Don’t forget the M&P 45 which also gets consistently good reviews from people around here.I've heard lots of good stuff for sure. The M&P45 with a thumb safety is a helluva gun if you're a 1911 guy who wants the extra BBs. Some PD trade ins have popped up for very good prices lately.

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[SwampDweller]

In my experience, the glock 21 and glock 30 are 80 percent of the capability of a bullseye level 1911, for easily 20 percent of the cost.

Very tempting.

If you're like me, who can't shoot a sub 1" group at 25 yards, it's basically a no brainer.

Glock .45 pistols are just stupidly accurate.

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For some reason, I shoot my Glock 21 better than my G17/G19 in terms of accuracy. Slightly slower splits, but not enough to matter IMO, especially comparing recoil between a 124+p Gold Dot vs a standard pressure 230gr HST or Gold Dot. The accuracy and my confidence in that accuracy is just hard to argue with. One of the few guns I can almost always call my shots with.

...But alas, I still lust for a carry-reliable 1911.

[SW CQB 45]

this has been my duty carry since 2008.

Its been to several high round count schools in the 2010s, and I made the mistake of not cleaning it at one school. On day three I could feel it getting crunchy but it never failed. The mistake was a pain in the azz to clean. Baked on firing residue. Kroil and JB Bore paste and a lot of scrubbing to get it clean. I saw an Ed Brown Special Forces fail but the fail was the spring tunnel was full of powder like dirt.

here is some of that dirt.
https://i.imgur.com/jPQDXemh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7zSzPyXh.jpg

Its had a few quirks that I was able to fix which might have been related to an out of spec part.

Its in the 17K round mark and still going strong.

https://i.imgur.com/X6adsSoh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0eld26nh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/sADzFwYh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QdjTvcZh.jpg

[SwampDweller]

this has been my duty carry since 2008.

Its been to several high round count schools in the 2010s, and I made the mistake of not cleaning it at one school. On day three I could feel it getting crunchy but it never failed. The mistake was a pain in the azz to clean. Baked on firing residue. Kroil and JB Bore paste and a lot of scrubbing to get it clean. I saw an Ed Brown Special Forces fail but the fail was the spring tunnel was full of powder like dirt.

here is some of that dirt.

Its had a few quirks that I was able to fix which might have been related to an out of spec part.

Its in the 17K round mark and still going strong.

https://i.imgur.com/QdjTvcZh.jpg
Man that's impressive. Maybe I should just get a Government Model Colt or Springfield and if it needs any attention such as extractor tension to be 100%, I can start to learn to do it myself. I'd prefer to be able to just send off a brand new quality base gun to one of the masters and have them make sure it's good to go before I ever even take it to the range, but there's increasingly fewer of them and they seem to mostly all have years-long waits.

[SW CQB 45]

Just an FYI on my piece,

I bought it used in 2008 (supposedly 200 rounds through the tube) when we were approved for 1911 duty carry.

Bone stock MC Operator and it ran, I just wanted something with more. Back then, SACS was the shit and since I was sending it back to the mother ship, I had no worries about it being modified from original factory parts.

I ditched everything MIM and had them install their tool steel trigger group set at duty spec of 5 lbs trigger break, and everything else was 10-8 or WC, front strap checkering and custom fit S&A magwell.

Don Williams (head honcho of SACS) called me and said if we put a match barrel in it, it would be considered a custom. I did not have the money for that and so with sad eyes, I told him we were good as it was decent in the accuracy dept. I should have just done it, but oh well.

here it is fresh back from SACS in 2009
https://i.imgur.com/mcuWpYkh.jpg

it's been ran hard with 230 hard ball and 230 Gold Dot.

I compared it to a short ownership Pro and the edge in accuracy went to the Pro but not by much. A buddy wanted my Pro bad, so I sold it to him at 100% my cost.
https://i.imgur.com/FvgsDOZh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ztHsq52h.jpg

I wish I had another target like the one above as I thought this one would be easier to see. it was not.
https://i.imgur.com/KACRILdh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/dV7GWh8h.jpg


It went back to SACS in 2011 (memory loss as I cant recall why) but I had them AK the entire bottom in green. I think I changed to a traditional trigger as I wanted all my 1911 triggers to match and decided to go all green lower. I later added the WC ambi safety.

When I attended 10-8 in 2012, Hilton did not like how my gun was extracting so he filed (tuned) the extractor. There was a shooting portion of this class and I went up against Hilton on steel. He fffffn smoked me and I walked away with my tail between my legs HAHAHAHAHA!

so my MCOP is not really stock. While it has 17K thru the tube, it has twice + that with dry fires and presentations.


Here is the Pro at 25 yards standing barricade
https://i.imgur.com/5ke71U7h.jpg

[Catshooter]

this has been my duty carry since 2008.

https://i.imgur.com/QdjTvcZh.jpg

From the looks of things, you haven't been skipping leg day.

Or is that your arm?

[SwampDweller]

Just an FYI on my piece,

I bought it used in 2008 (supposedly 200 rounds through the tube) when we were approved for 1911 duty carry.

Bone stock MC Operator and it ran, I just wanted something with more. Back then, SACS was the shit and since I was sending it back to the mother ship, I had no worries about it being modified from original factory parts.

I ditched everything MIM and had them install their tool steel trigger group set at duty spec of 5 lbs trigger break, and everything else was 10-8 or WC, front strap checkering and custom fit S&A magwell.

Don Williams (head honcho of SACS) called me and said if we put a match barrel in it, it would be considered a custom. I did not have the money for that and so with sad eyes, I told him we were good as it was decent in the accuracy dept. I should have just done it, but oh well.

here it is fresh back from SACS in 2009
https://i.imgur.com/mcuWpYkh.jpg

it's been ran hard with 230 hard ball and 230 Gold Dot.

I compared it to a short ownership Pro and the edge in accuracy went to the Pro but not by much. A buddy wanted my Pro bad, so I sold it to him at 100% my cost.
https://i.imgur.com/FvgsDOZh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ztHsq52h.jpg

I wish I had another target like the one above as I thought this one would be easier to see. it was not.
https://i.imgur.com/KACRILdh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/dV7GWh8h.jpg


It went back to SACS in 2011 (memory loss as I cant recall why) but I had them AK the entire bottom in green. I think I changed to a traditional trigger as I wanted all my 1911 triggers to match and decided to go all green lower. I later added the WC ambi safety.

When I attended 10-8 in 2012, Hilton did not like how my gun was extracting so he filed (tuned) the extractor. There was a shooting portion of this class and I went up against Hilton on steel. He fffffn smoked me and I walked away with my tail between my legs HAHAHAHAHA!

so my MCOP is not really stock. While it has 17K thru the tube, it has twice + that with dry fires and presentations.


Here is the Pro at 25 yards standing barricade
https://i.imgur.com/5ke71U7h.jpg
I didn't know SACS ever worked on customers' guns that were already purchased. Do they still do that? If not, is there anyone else still around who does that kind of thing like SACS or Hilton did that is taking work orders and doesn't have a years long backlog?

[HCM]

I didn't know SACS ever worked on customers' guns that were already purchased. Do they still do that? If not, is there anyone else still around who does that kind of thing like SACS or Hilton did that is taking work orders and doesn't have a years long backlog?

Not only did SACS used to work on Customers guns they would do so on non Springfield 1911s. They stopped taking such work several years ago.

The world of competent 1911 smiths is a constantly evolving process.

There’s usually a small window between someone being found to be competent, and then developing a backlog of work.

[SW CQB 45]

I highly suggest you look at Dan Wesson for out of the box performance.

Pretty much anything you would want to do is already done.

There is a nice 2017 Valor .45 5" on 1911addicts. it has not sold at the time of this post.

I did not need another 1911 but always wanted a blue steel Valor .45 5" and they disappeared from market after DW discontinued the blue steel version. They make them in Stainless and duty treat (black) stainless.

One popped up on 1911addicts and I mulled about it for days and it was still there for 16 bills.

I said what the hell.

The extractor needed tweaking (this was before I shot it) and it had a click at the beginning of the trigger press. It did not affect anything other than finger pressure on the trigger and an annoying "CLICK".

my research led to it being disconnector click and a gunsmith on the 1911forum said to replace the disconnector with a EGW ball disconnector. I also subscribed to Hilton on Patreon for 19.11 a month plus tax and he mentioned the same thing.

WTH, they are $24 plus shipping... it got rid of the click without any fitting or tuning on that part. I also changed to a Fiber Optic front sight as that's what my eyes prefer. It was a pain in the azz to install as I went slow as I did not want to over file the sight dovetail cuts. I wanted a nice fit. I also found a NIP Stan Chen Drop in Magwell on 1911addicts for $125 shipped (brand new through Brownells is $150 plus shipping)

It a nice reliable and accurate piece.

https://i.imgur.com/ZxC98wnh.jpg

10-8 Signatures are grippy

https://i.imgur.com/l1RzOSHh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/AVHFVMsh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/SO1Zb8ch.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GsImTjHh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/LLj6Akyh.jpg

[Trooper224]

I'll second a recommendation on Dan Wesson.

95605

[JAH 3rd]

Thanks for sharing the pictures and commentary on your posts!! You may have mentioned it, but what magazines do you use in your duty 1911?

[SW CQB 45]

I have had great success since 2008 with Chip McCormick Power Mags (8 rounders). My only issue I have encountered with them and it's their inherent design with the follower. The follower is spring type and the lower section has a pointed tip design, and it moves forward when empty. Since I used them a lot, (over and over) the pointed follower acted like a dull center punch and put a dimple inside my mag well, under the feed ramp.

I contacted Chip McCormick and they sent me the Power Mag + followers which has a rounded follower. I installed them and was getting heavy fail to lock the slide to the rear when empty or the follower was snagging on the slide stop lug. I wanted them to work but decided to park that project as I would likely have to get a new slide stop with a longer lug (and then fit it).

In this pic you can see the dimple below the feed ramp and the ejector tip is pointing at it. It has never caused an issue and the raised area around the dimple; I filed flat just because it I can't leave well enough alone.
https://i.imgur.com/81WFfqjh.jpg

here is a better pic
https://i.imgur.com/y0Yhs3wh.jpg

it might be difficult to see the pointed tip in this image but you can see there is nothing keeping them from moving forward when it hits the slide stop. Other than the follower making contact with the frame, these mags work.

https://i.imgur.com/P1bGnUlh.jpg

I have 5 brand new CM PM+ in the package. I need to test them, maybe this winter. I still use the CMs here and there but my mags are old and Hilton recommends well used mags to be tossed.

I don't know if CM has changed anything with its design since they are now owned by WC. I do have a few of their CM railed Power Mags and they work.

I did get rid of my older mags through the Ed Brown trade in program when I bought some of his 9mm mags. I later made the decision to get out of 9mm 1911 pistol except for the one SACS PPC I still have.

About a year or two ago, I started using Wilson Combat ETM (8 rounders) and while I have had zero issues, I prefer metal followers over plastic followers since they make contact with a metal lug when empty. I have kept an eye on the plastic follower, and they seem to be ok.

I did buy 5 stainless Check-Mate mags and the spring is very stiff but so far no issues. I like their follower design where the front section stays within the tube. My new ACW came with two stainless Check-Mate mags.
I also have 5 blue steel Act Mags that came with my first ACW and no issues with them. They have the same follower design.

I am not a fan of 10 round mags for duty use. I have had feed issues with my personal MCOP (Both CM and WC). I will use them every now and then for range use only.

hope this helps

[JTQ]

I did get rid of my older mags through the Ed Brown trade in program when I bought some of his 9mm mags. I later made the decision to get out of 9mm 1911 pistol except for the one SACS PPC I still have.

I did buy 5 stainless Check-Mate mags and the spring is very stiff but so far no issues. I like their follower design where the front section stays within the tube. My new ACW came with two stainless Check-Mate mags.
Expanding on the above,

Ed Brown mags are made by CheckMate, in the event you like them and can't find one, you can use the other.

A cautionary note on CheckMate non-extended tube 8 rounders. They are short and are tough to seat with 8 rounds in the tube and the slide forward.

CheckMate Extended Tube 8 rounders should be fine.

Tube length can be important with 8 rounders. Using the McCormick line-up as an example, the Match Grade is their shortest, it is flush fit; the PowerMag and PowerMag+ are slightly longer, even without a bumper pad they'd extend beyond the bottom of the mag well (non-chute equipped guns); the Railed PowerMags (RPM) are the longest and designed specifically as an 8 rounder and not a converted 7 round mag (they are basically the same tube length as Wilson ETM and Tripp CobraMags).

[Trooper224]

I've had great success with the 8 round, extended tube mags from Checkmate. I have 30+ in inventory with zero issues. For years they were my go-to mags. I also have around half a dozen of the Checkmate 10 rounders. I don't use them for carry, but they see a lot of range and qualification use. Recently, I replaced one spring, but that's it. Other than that, they've worked without issue. Lately, I've been buying McCormick Power Mags because my range has them in stock. I haven't had any issues with the followers.

Wilson ETMs are the only 9mm mag I'll buy.

[JAH 3rd]

Both my Springfield Loaded and DW A2, both 5", function on multiple magazine designs. CM Power Mag and Railed Mag function perfectly in both. Checkmate 7 round blue with the skirted follower, wadcutter feed lips, and high performance mag spring run 100% too. The original factory mags with the Springfield and DW are boringly reliable. I'm comfortable and confident with these two 1911's. Stating the obvious, vetting is the key here.

Most anyone shoots the 1911 more that I do. I do enjoy reading about others' experience with that platform.

[SwampDweller]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm gathering that perhaps the best mags for 100% reliability are the McCormick 7 round Power Mags, right?
It also sounds like the Wilson 47 (not D) 7 round magazines are also about as reliable as it gets.

What mags does Hilton use for serious use?

It also sounds like the Dan Wesson Valor may be the best choice for a 1911 unless I went with something like a Wilson Combat (but even then, would the Wilson have a better chance of being 100% out of the box?). However, it does seem there's a good chance it will not be 100% reliable out of the box and may need some work, meaning I'd either have to learn to be my own armorer or pay a competent 1911 gunsmith to do so, which seems unlikely as all the best ones are either not taking work or are years backlogged.

[Trooper224]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm gathering that perhaps the best mags for 100% reliability are the McCormick 7 round Power Mags, right?
It also sounds like the Wilson 47 (not D) 7 round magazines are also about as reliable as it gets.

What mags does Hilton use for serious use?

Eight round mags are fine, as long as they're designed as such and not retrofitted sevens. Several have been mentioned.


t also sounds like the Dan Wesson Valor may be the best choice for a 1911 unless I went with something like a Wilson Combat (but even then, would the Wilson have a better chance of being 100% out of the box?). However, it does seem there's a good chance it will not be 100% reliable out of the box and may need some work, meaning I'd either have to learn to be my own armorer or pay a competent 1911 gunsmith to do so, which seems unlikely as all the best ones are either not taking work or are years backlogged.

Not with today's Wilson Combat.

[SwampDweller]

Not with today's Wilson Combat.
Sadly, that seems to be what I hear about Wilson Combat pistols lately. Seems as though they've simply gone to a typical mass produced commercial line status.

It's my understanding that Wilson Combat lost out to the Springfield Custom Shop on the FBI HRT contract. That was a long time ago, but I've always wondered why these supposedly hand built master smith 1911s seem to have these little annoying reliability issues as frequently as most production 1911s like Springfields and Colts.

To be clear, my main goal is reliability, I'm not after super match grade accuracy. I want a combat-accurate 1911 that is combat-reliable.

[45dotACP]

Sadly, that seems to be what I hear about Wilson Combat pistols lately. Seems as though they've simply gone to a typical mass produced commercial line status.

It's my understanding that Wilson Combat lost out to the Springfield Custom Shop on the FBI HRT contract. That was a long time ago, but I've always wondered why these supposedly hand built master smith 1911s seem to have these little annoying reliability issues as frequently as most production 1911s like Springfields and Colts.

To be clear, my main goal is reliability, I'm not after super match grade accuracy. I want a combat-accurate 1911 that is combat-reliable."Combat reliable" 1911 means you'll definitely want to invest in learning how to identify if your gun is having trouble.

(e.g. A 1911 will tell you it's problems in a way that a glock will not.)

If a Glock is throwing brass into your face, it will still probably work. If a 1911 bounces shells off of your face, there is a problem.

If you're aware of the intricacies, a 1911 can easily be made to run as well as a Glock, but bear in mind the gun cannot just be treated like a lawnmower or a Honda Civic and still be expected to be as reliable as a Glock.

Definitely subscribe to Hilton Yams youtube channel. Watch ALL the videos about 1911s. He's got some absolute gold there.

I'd say if you want out of the box reliability, many will suggest a Dan Wesson, Springfield Pro, or a Staccato. Those are good suggestions.

But with a small investment of time and effort, you can get an 800 dollar Springfield to run just as well as a Dan Wesson or Staccato (minus the high capacity)

As a cheap bastard, it's what I'd suggest, but that's because I'm trying to save money.

As an aside, I just sent my Caspian in for refinishing. The old rust blue finish has finally worn bare. It was time.

I'm highly excited because it's gonna have the 2 tone Pachmayr look, but in Cerakote, because I don't wanna mess with bluing anymore except for my Alchemy

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[JTQ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm gathering that perhaps the best mags for 100% reliability are the McCormick 7 round Power Mags, right?
Chip McCormick (CMC) doesn't make a full size 7 round PowerMag. Full size PowerMags are available in 8 or 10 round capacities. Actually, up to just a few years ago when the "Classic" line ( https://www.cmproducts.com/7-Round_c_260.html ) showed up in their line-up, they didn't offer any 7 round full size mags. Edit to add: I'm not recommending the "Classic" mag. It may be a great mag, but it is positioned in the line-up as a "bargain" mag.

The CMC claim to fame traditionally has been the Devel/Shooting Star follower. It is a very compact follower and is itself a spring. If you absolutely have to have a flush 8 rounder, the Devel follower is probably the best way to make that work.

[JTQ]

To add: The PowerMag has been the flagship of the CMC line-up for many years. The PowerMag+ is just a follower change and was designed for aluminum framed guns. In some video Hilton Yam commented he preferred the regular PowerMag follower over the PowerMag+ follower.

The CMC Railed PowerMag (RPM) is the new flagship model in the CMC line-up. It has a longer tube, one designed for 8 rounds, has the folded over "railed" feed lips that theoretically should be stronger, and has an improved spring and follower over the original PowerMag. If you don't mind the longer tube and the flared bumper pad, the RPM is their top mag. Some folks still prefer the original PowerMag, though.

[HCM]

Sadly, that seems to be what I hear about Wilson Combat pistols lately. Seems as though they've simply gone to a typical mass produced commercial line status.

It's my understanding that Wilson Combat lost out to the Springfield Custom Shop on the FBI HRT contract. That was a long time ago, but I've always wondered why these supposedly hand built master smith 1911s seem to have these little annoying reliability issues as frequently as most production 1911s like Springfields and Colts.

To be clear, my main goal is reliability, I'm not after super match grade accuracy. I want a combat-accurate 1911 that is combat-reliable.

What is your precise definitions for “combat reliable” and “combat accurate?”

Real numbers like mean rounds between failures, an X size group at Y distance with Z ammo.

The closest thing to those type specifications would be the FBI HRT/SWAT solicitation and that was 25 years ago.

The other thing is what is your budget ?

For me “a 1911” starts at a SA TRP or Long Beach operator IF you get a good one which is a 50/50 chance.

Dan Wesson Valor / Specialist is a lot better and more consistent for a little more $$$.

For serious use an SA PRO.. and it’s still not 100% it will be GTG out if the box.

If you are serious, an Alchemy or a GunCrafters 1911.

I had good luck in the past with Les Baer guns, but just like nighthawk and Wilson they are not what, or as consistent, as they used to be.

Power. So let’s say you start with a gun that is good to go. You either need to learn to be your own armorer, or you need to have more than one gun.

Durability, reliability, and most importantly, the logistics of keeping a 1911 running are why most organizations, including Hilton’s former organization dumped 1911s for more modern designs. Many organizations that used 1911s low ”for real”would have two guns per operator with one being used while the others in the maintenance cycle in order to have one working gun available at all times.

[SwampDweller]

What is your precise definitions for “combat reliable” and “combat accurate?”

Real numbers like mean rounds between failures, an X size group at Y distance with Z ammo.

The closest thing to those type specifications would be the FBI HRT/SWAT solicitation and that was 25 years ago.

The other thing is what is your budget ?

For me “a 1911” starts at a SA TRP or Long Beach operator IF you get a good one which is a 50/50 chance.

Dan Wesson Valor / Specialist is a lot better and more consistent for a little more $$$.

For serious use an SA PRO.. and it’s still not 100% it will be GTG out if the box.

If you are serious, an Alchemy or a GunCrafters 1911.

I had good luck in the past with Les Baer guns, but just like nighthawk and Wilson they are not what, or as consistent, as they used to be.

Power. So let’s say you start with a gun that is good to go. You either need to learn to be your own armorer, or you need to have more than one gun.

Durability, reliability, and most importantly, the logistics of keeping a 1911 running are why most organizations, including Hilton’s former organization dumped 1911s for more modern designs. Many organizations that used 1911s low ”for real”would have two guns per operator with one being used while the others in the maintenance cycle in order to have one working gun available at all times.

I require a pistol to be able to go at least 1000 rounds without a stoppage (with proper cleaning and lubrication) before I will consider it for "serious" use. As far as MRBS, I go with the typical government contract requirement of 2000 MRBS. I agree with the late great Todd that 2,000 MRBS is the mark for "long term reliability".

I haven't for sure decided on a budget, but I'm thinking it's around the Dan Wesson Valor area. In fact, it sounds like the DW might be the best bang for the buck in a 1911 of pretty good quality that has a decent chance of running 100% out of the box.

Combat accurate: More or less as accurate as a Glock or other common duty pistols.

[HCM]

I require a pistol to be able to go at least 1000 rounds without a stoppage (with proper cleaning and lubrication) before I will consider it for "serious" use. As far as MRBS, I go with the typical government contract requirement of 2000 MRBS. I agree with the late great Todd that 2,000 MRBS is the mark for "long term reliability".

I haven't for sure decided on a budget, but I'm thinking it's around the Dan Wesson Valor area. In fact, it sounds like the DW might be the best bang for the buck in a 1911 of pretty good quality that has a decent chance of running 100% out of the box.

Combat accurate: More or less as accurate as a Glock or other common duty pistols.

Dan Wesson is the best value and occupies the “sweet spot” Les Baer previously held before their prices went up.

[Robinson]

I require a pistol to be able to go at least 1000 rounds without a stoppage (with proper cleaning and lubrication) before I will consider it for "serious" use. As far as MRBS, I go with the typical government contract requirement of 2000 MRBS. I agree with the late great Todd that 2,000 MRBS is the mark for "long term reliability".


I've got multiple 45s and a 38 Super that beat that standard.

My SA Pro has been rock solid since the two malfs during the first 100 rounds, and I have Colt 45s that have never malfunctioned ever.

I have another SA Operator 45 -- one of the new ones -- that seems as well built as any TRP from what I can tell. It just doesn't have front strap checkering like the TRP.

My Nighthawk 45 Commander had a problem with locking the slide back before the magazine went dry, but I was able to address that myself with a file and stone. With that issue resolved it is a fantastic pistol and is my current carry gun.

All of the posts in this thread should start revealing to you the nature of going down the 1911 rabbit hole. There's nothing wrong with it as long as you understand the situation.

[JTQ]

I haven't for sure decided on a budget, but I'm thinking it's around the Dan Wesson Valor area. In fact, it sounds like the DW might be the best bang for the buck in a 1911 of pretty good quality that has a decent chance of running 100% out of the box.

Combat accurate: More or less as accurate as a Glock or other common duty pistols.
My .02 cents on Dan Wesson's. I think they are probably pretty good guns. Before you buy, do some research on Dan Wesson "stainless galling" and "Duty Treat finish" issues.

Do I think either are real issues, well, maybe, but I thought the gun world had worked out the galling issues with stainless steel guns about 35 years ago. Until this stuff started showing up in the Dan Wesson forums a few years back, I don't recall having seen issues with galling on stainless steel guns since the mid-1980's. Either Dan Wesson didn't get the memo on how to avoid it or something else is going on. I know folks will say "tight fit" and everything, but Ed Brown makes a whole bunch of stainless 1911's and I'm pretty sure they are fit tighter than Dan Wesson's and there aren't an galling reports with Ed Brown's guns.

I'm convinced the real issue is it seems as if it is Glock owners are the one's jumping into the Dan Wesson pool more than anybody else. Many of these folks are very knowledgeable gun owners, but know next to nothing about 1911's. They are also used to spending $500 on a pistol and not $1,500 on a pistol, so there is a lot of "for $1,500 I expect a gun to ...".

"Galling issues" = "6 drops of lube". If you're going to lube your 1911 like a Glock, you're probably going to have problems.

"Duty Treat finish issues" = if you're going to spray your gun down with brake cleaner, you're going to make your pretty Duty Treat finish less pretty.

[SW CQB 45]

My .02 cents on Dan Wesson's. I think they are probably pretty good guns. Before you buy, do some research on Dan Wesson "stainless galling" and "Duty Treat finish" issues.

Do I think either are real issues, well, maybe, but I thought the gun world had worked out the galling issues with stainless steel guns about 35 years ago. Until this stuff started showing up in the Dan Wesson forums a few years back, I don't recall having seen issues with galling on stainless steel guns since the mid-1980's. Either Dan Wesson didn't get the memo on how to avoid it or something else is going on. I know folks will say "tight fit" and everything, but Ed Brown makes a whole bunch of stainless 1911's and I'm pretty sure they are fit tighter than Dan Wesson's and there aren't an galling reports with Ed Brown's guns.

I'm convinced the real issue is it seems as if it is Glock owners are the one's jumping into the Dan Wesson pool more than anybody else. Many of these folks are very knowledgeable gun owners, but know next to nothing about 1911's. They are also used to spending $500 on a pistol and not $1,500 on a pistol, so there is a lot of "for $1,500 I expect a gun to ...".

"Galling issues" = "6 drops of lube". If you're going to lube your 1911 like a Glock, you're probably going to have problems.

"Duty Treat finish issues" = if you're going to spray your gun down with brake cleaner, you're going to make your pretty Duty Treat finish less pretty.


Some yearsssss ago, A seized up stainless Springer TRP was brought to me. The owner said he oiled it and went shooting. I could not break it free without hurting it with my limited tools.

I emailed Springer and they said the owner was not using enough lube on the slide rails, but they would look at it under warranty.

It was sent in and came be working. The owner locked it up again. I emailed again for the owner and sent it back in.

This time, before it was returned, I got a call from Dave Williams at SACS saying they will not repair this firearm again if the owner locks it up. He is not lubing it correctly.

When it was returned, I explained again how to lube it, however the owner sold it a short time later.

[03RN]

When I worked at a range I saw a ton of 1911s stop working. 90% worked great after I lubed them. Same at matches. I don't see 1911s shot much up here but the guys who I do see get stoppages are shooting a gun that would pass a white glove inspection.

I'm not even talking spraying it down with a spray bottle.

I typically grease my loaded and I shoot every week. Twice a week once a month due to a match. I'll clean the gun every other month. Before matches I rack the slide and put a drop of oil on each rail, the disconnectors, the barrel and the barrel hood.

That's 1k rounds between cleaning and 500 between 5 drops of oil. With a lot of carrying every week.

My lw champion gets carried more but cleaned less. I think the grease was applied 4-5 months ago. I'll probably shoot it next week.

[Elwin]

My understanding is that contrary to fudd lore, you can’t over lubricate one. Running the action will kick out whatever it doesn’t need to be wiped off before moving on with your day.

I lubed mine generously with Hoppes No. 9 because I had a bunch of it. Recently switched to Slip EWL just to have something that sticks around better. Same results just oiling less often now.

[YVK]

I'm on my off-season 1911 gig. A used 1911 (trade-in) that has been reliable through 4000 rounds has started to go, with a rabid frequency, to early slide lock after a magwell change. A leaning has occurred that for 1911s correct bumper pads were important (thanks, Glock and CZ, for spoiling me). Correct bumper pads were installed. Surprise:early slide locks didn't go away. Did become less frequent but didn't go away completely. Returning back to the initial configuration of magwell/bumper pads got rid of early slidelocks. A mechanically unsound gun was being kept at a spurious 100% reliability, over 4K round count, by a chance combination of magwell and bumper pads. My conclusion on the art and science of keeping my 1911 running: if it is not set from beginning by someone I trust, I ain't interested in that science and I will leave that gun to the art of making noise on USPSA range.

[03RN]

My understanding is that contrary to fudd lore, you can’t over lubricate one. Running the action will kick out whatever it doesn’t need to be wiped off before moving on with your day.

I lubed mine generously with Hoppes No. 9 because I had a bunch of it. Recently switched to Slip EWL just to have something that sticks around better. Same results just oiling less often now.

Nope I don't think you can. I just limit my lubing or else I get stains in my underwear/undershirts.

[SW CQB 45]

If yall remember this dude

https://i.imgur.com/bXOYDITh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0SADCdvh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/SJzltVXh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VfFt4Xoh.jpg

replacement on the left

https://i.imgur.com/CrckgMch.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/orSdPT7h.jpg

This is a dept gun, 2005 Model MCOP that was assigned to me. I parked my personal 2008 MCOP to be replaced by its older brother.

I was shooting it heavy with 230 ball (I don't recall round count) but had two similar malfunctions which I original thought it was my thumb slowing the slide down, but I "S" bent the extractor.

The majority of this brass is from 2005.

https://i.imgur.com/mjolMlNh.jpg

Well, my initial thoughts were wrong. It was the extractor (factory??? hell I don't know. It was sent back to Springer for an overall check)

Based on the deep gouge in the brass, this extractor was likely dropped in by the factory (no fitting). It was destined to fail.

I obtained a WC BP Extractor and FP Stop, and I could not fit it without it hitting brass. I did a lot of reading, viewing videos and reference materials. I was told by a smith via an image that my extractor was too long.

https://i.imgur.com/zniT4HLh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uXZWXTFh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/SGG6A34h.jpg

I was told to widen the firing pin stop notch, solder a spacer to move the extractor back in the slide. That is way beyond my abilities with what tools I have.

So, either the brand-new WC extractor was out of spec, or the slide is.

I tried to order an EGW extractor (dept regs) through an approved vendor and it was out of stock.

I said, WTH and kept reducing areas on the hook to have clearance on the brass. I got it there but have not made the time to put some rounds through it.

Next month is academy firearms, so I hope to put 500-600 230 grain slugs through it. I plan to heavy oil it and just keep shooting it. See what happens.

If I have an extractor failure, I finally got the EGW extractor and FP Stop, and it will be the cooler months to fit (garage).


Perfect example of 1911 and everything is not drop in.

[JTQ]

This time, before it was returned, I got a call from Dave Williams at SACS saying they will not repair this firearm again if the owner locks it up. He is not lubing it correctly.
I don't know if I've already posted this in this long thread (it may be here somewhere already), but elsewhere the WilsonCombatRep posted "50% of their returns for service are fixed by properly lubing the gun".

[HeavyDuty]

Did we recap best practices for 1911 lubrication in a single post in this thread? I know what I’ve been doing, but am curious how it compares.

[SW CQB 45]

It makes me wonder if those with issues, oiled their gun a week or longer before heading to the range.

oil creeps away and a couple of hot cycles and you are dry.

Years ago, Remington told us RemOil was designed for slow moving pump shotguns and bolt action rifles.

Yet I see the use of RemOil on a lot of pistols and fails on ARs where it will cook off.

I saw an old chief at a 2008 Patrol Rifle school in Broken Arrow, OK spray RemOil on a .308 AR and destroyed the gas rings in half a day. The same gun locked the trigger up and they brought me the gun. I had to beat the trigger pin out only to find out the ammo they purchased was spitting primers into the action. There must have been 20+ primers wedged underneath the trigger group.

Oil your 1911 then shoot or if some time passed, then oil it again right before your shoot.

I have oiled my 1911s before without taking them apart. some years ago, I saw a video or read it in a magazine.

Just have to know the stress points.

to me, if stainless galls the slide/frame rails.... that is a very important area.

barrel locking lugs to name a few.

Anything high wear metal to metal gets oil.

that's where knowing the pistol, how it works are key to functionality.

[JTQ]

Did we recap best practices for 1911 lubrication in a single post in this thread? I know what I’ve been doing, but am curious how it compares.
These are the videos that I find the most helpful. I take a little something from each.

I don't use grease like Dave Anderson does, but his lubing without field stripping at the end of the video is a very handy technique.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eUacqOIAaU


Hickok45 with Ballistol, a CLP


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wPPUXU3Lhc


Wilson Combat with their lube


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4D2mRlDo48


and then this from Atlas Gun Works is another since grease often comes up


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwVTL0cioS0

[Ichiban]

Nope I don't think you can. I just limit my lubing or else I get stains in my underwear/undershirts.

Whoa! That made me do a double take to verify what forum I was on. :p

[JAH 3rd]

I have stains too

[SwampDweller]

My .02 cents on Dan Wesson's. I think they are probably pretty good guns. Before you buy, do some research on Dan Wesson "stainless galling" and "Duty Treat finish" issues.

Do I think either are real issues, well, maybe, but I thought the gun world had worked out the galling issues with stainless steel guns about 35 years ago. Until this stuff started showing up in the Dan Wesson forums a few years back, I don't recall having seen issues with galling on stainless steel guns since the mid-1980's. Either Dan Wesson didn't get the memo on how to avoid it or something else is going on. I know folks will say "tight fit" and everything, but Ed Brown makes a whole bunch of stainless 1911's and I'm pretty sure they are fit tighter than Dan Wesson's and there aren't an galling reports with Ed Brown's guns.

I'm convinced the real issue is it seems as if it is Glock owners are the one's jumping into the Dan Wesson pool more than anybody else. Many of these folks are very knowledgeable gun owners, but know next to nothing about 1911's. They are also used to spending $500 on a pistol and not $1,500 on a pistol, so there is a lot of "for $1,500 I expect a gun to ...".

"Galling issues" = "6 drops of lube". If you're going to lube your 1911 like a Glock, you're probably going to have problems.

"Duty Treat finish issues" = if you're going to spray your gun down with brake cleaner, you're going to make your pretty Duty Treat finish less pretty.

I have not heard about the galling issue. Is that a common thing? Has anyone here experienced it?

[Ichiban]

I have not heard about the galling issue. Is that a common thing? Has anyone here experienced it?

I've had a stainless VBOB for over ten years with no galling.

Some moron did leave it in a leather holster for too long though. :(

[Bergeron]

I hope that there will be a better answer than this, but- Stainless can be susceptible to galling, depending upon alloy type and lubrication. The earliest stainless guns used the earliest stainless steels, and were at the greatest risk. My understanding is that the SS used in the AutoMag .22s contributed to the bad reliability reputation of the guns.

Best current practice(as I understand) is to use modern alloy variants, and to use different alloy variants for the frame than what makes up the slide.

While I have no doubt about the veracity of the story above, I do wonder what sort of lubricant, firing schedule, and environmental conditions were all present.

In a modern gun, I would worry about stainless galling.

[SwampDweller]

In a modern gun, I would worry about stainless galling.

I assume you meant to say "I would not worry about stainless galling"?

[Bergeron]

Agh, and yikes- yes sir, you are correct- I blame doing this from a mobile device, and I apologize.

[SwampDweller]

Agh, and yikes- yes sir, you are correct- I blame doing this from a mobile device, and I apologize.

Hah, no worries. Damn smart phones!

In the event that I get a Dan Wesson and it's not as reliable as I want it to be out of the box, are there ANY good 1911 smiths that are currently accepting work and have reasonable turnaround times to do a Reliability Package?

[03RN]

Got the C&S extractor installed last night. I just added a little tension and the fp stop was a perfect fit in the slot.

I labeled the old one and put it with my 1911 parts.

[Trooper224]

Hah, no worries. Damn smart phones!

In the event that I get a Dan Wesson and it's not as reliable as I want it to be out of the box, are there ANY good 1911 smiths that are currently accepting work and have reasonable turnaround times to do a Reliability Package?

If you go with Dan Wesson, forget the bare stainless guns and for the ferritic nitrocarburizing finish (duty finish). The treatment isn't a surface finish, but rather a chemical process that changes the color of the steel itself, which is also stainless. It also hardens the surface of the steel, which is why you never hear of galling with the black guns, something that's overblown anyway. While more expensive, it is an incredibly hard wearing finish. My Valor was purchased in 2016, has fired around 30k rounds roundabout, has seen thousands of trips in and out of a holster and still looks new. It is true that some of the harsher cleaning solvents can discolor it. But, I've used primarily Ballistol for cleaning and have never had a problem.

[03RN]

Got the C&S extractor installed last night. I just added a little tension and the fp stop was a perfect fit in the slot.

I labeled the old one and put it with my 1911 parts.

Nuts, look like I'll have to do some file work

[SwampDweller]

I was playing around with a CmC PowerMag 8rd in a Colt earlier today. Sometimes I couldn't get it to lock back on the follower. I think I didn't hit it home hard enough, but I've never dealt with mags that needed that much of a slap. I tried it in a couple of Springfields and RIAs, same story.

Anyone else see this?

[03RN]

https://www.1911forum.com/threads/steve-in-allentown-extractor-fitting.829865/

[SW CQB 45]

I was playing around with a CmC PowerMag 8rd in a Colt earlier today. Sometimes I couldn't get it to lock back on the follower. I think I didn't hit it home hard enough, but I've never dealt with mags that needed that much of a slap. I tried it in a couple of Springfields and RIAs, same story.

Anyone else see this?

were you doing this with an empty mag?

[Trooper224]

I was playing around with a CmC PowerMag 8rd in a Colt earlier today. Sometimes I couldn't get it to lock back on the follower. I think I didn't hit it home hard enough, but I've never dealt with mags that needed that much of a slap. I tried it in a couple of Springfields and RIAs, same story.

Anyone else see this?

Is the mag new, is it clean?

[03RN]

95754

[SwampDweller]

were you doing this with an empty mag?

yes,


Is the mag new, is it clean?
It was brand new in the plastic package. Granted, the Colt had a magwell installed that could've interfered, but it also took place on samples without magwells. Could have been user error, but it did not happen with Wilson ETMs on multiple attempts to recreate it. I will have to try more with both at the shop when I go back on Wednesday.

[SwampDweller]

95754

Please enlighten me... what is wrong with it?

[Bergeron]

Hah, no worries. Damn smart phones!

In the event that I get a Dan Wesson and it's not as reliable as I want it to be out of the box, are there ANY good 1911 smiths that are currently accepting work and have reasonable turnaround times to do a Reliability Package?

Definitions of reasonable will vary, but, given quality ammo and mags in a .45 5” bushing gun, it’s such a well-know quantify that almost any Smith or shop worthy of the name will be able to get you fixed up right away.

Clark was taking work and was reasonable timeframes for small stuff in last couple years. A little further back in time, Briley was able to accommodate a reliability job in straightforward fashion, and it looks like a Nighthawk is taking in guns for work. I had a smith do a light bit of repairs, working it in between larger jobs, and there may be several who could make that happen. Mr. Jim Milks was available earlier this year to do a rebuild on a Springfield, but I’m unsure of both the timeline and if he’s available for reliability jobs. I’ve had great experiences with Powers Metal Works, and he’s close to me, but I’m unsure if he’s doing 1911 reliability jobs.

[JohnO]

In the event that I get a Dan Wesson and it's not as reliable as I want it to be out of the box, are there ANY good 1911 smiths that are currently accepting work and have reasonable turnaround times to do a Reliability Package?

Somewhere in the past I'm relatively sure I spoke of this here on this forum.

I purchased a Dan Wesson Valor that was a LEMON! Through my own research and consulting with PistolWrench on 1911 Forum I discovered the gun was not salvageable. The feed ramp was cut too deep and therefore the frame/gun was unfixable. I relayed my measurements to Keith Lawton at Dan Wesson and he sent me a return label. In return I received a new DW Valor. That Valor and the other 2 Dan Wessons I own have been 100% reliable and have absolutely zero need for any gunsmithing.

I look at it this way. Everyone no matter how good lets out a turn every now and then. I was the unlucky recipient of one of those turds. Dan Wesson made it right pronto! It certainly didn't stop me from buying two more. I say buy with confidence. Don't waste time or energy trying to figure out who can make it run for you. If it doesn't run DW will fix it.

[03RN]

Please enlighten me... what is wrong with it?

Hopefully nothing lol. I thought I typed stuff with that pic.

I was getting marks on the brass from the top of the extractor and brass down the magwell. That pic is after some filing.

[45dotACP]

Please enlighten me... what is wrong with it?Just giving it an eyeball check, nothing.

The case rim is in contact with the tensioning wall of the extractor, and the hook doesn't look to be contacting the case bevel (or if it is, it's a very small contact but I can't quite make it out)

Extractor looks good!

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[SwampDweller]

Somewhere in the past I'm relatively sure I spoke of this here on this forum.

I purchased a Dan Wesson Valor that was a LEMON! Through my own research and consulting with PistolWrench on 1911 Forum I discovered the gun was not salvageable. The feed ramp was cut too deep and therefore the frame/gun was unfixable. I relayed my measurements to Keith Lawton at Dan Wesson and he sent me a return label. In return I received a new DW Valor. That Valor and the other 2 Dan Wessons I own have been 100% reliable and have absolutely zero need for any gunsmithing.

I look at it this way. Everyone no matter how good lets out a turn every now and then. I was the unlucky recipient of one of those turds. Dan Wesson made it right pronto! It certainly didn't stop me from buying two more. I say buy with confidence. Don't waste time or energy trying to figure out who can make it run for you. If it doesn't run DW will fix it.

Oh absolutely, if it's a complete lemon that won't run, I'd send it back. But what I've encountered with all the 1911s I've owned (except one Colt S70 with hammer follow), they weren't absolutely FUBAR'd lemons that wouldn't run at all, but they still weren't up to my standard of reliability (ie, won't carry until I have 1k rounds through it without a stoppage, and preferably a MRBS of 2k). For instance, I had a Springfield Loaded that would run most of the time, but every 300 rounds or so it would have failures to extract (likely an extractor tension issue). It wouldn't happen often enough for Springfield to be able to replicate it in just a short test firing. Typically it's been things like that which I've encountered. Not necessarily an outright lemon, but still would need some work to make run as well as it should.

With most of the 1911s I've had, I ended up not wanting to go through the money and ammo to adjust and then test fire it for 1k rounds in an attempt that MAYBE it'd get through all of them, but maybe not.

[Trooper224]

A few years ago, on the recommendation of a gunsmith on the Smith & Wesson forum I adopted this as my primary lubricant. I've been quite satisfied.

95798

[Catshooter]

Food grade lubricant has one quality that I admire for firearm usage: some lubricative properties remain after being wiped off.

Critical function, in my tiny little mind.

[Stephanie B]

What I have done is apply a dab of grease that I have for my Garand to the frame and slide rail channels, then drop a drop of oil onto the hammer pivot, on the disconnector, on the barrel lockup channels in the slide and on the end of the barrel.

[BK14]

959009589995898958979589695895958929589395894

Ejector snapped off on my 9mm range officer. At the same time, I was starting to play with a new FPS and extractor, but never got to fitting the claw. I sent the gun off to Springfield, asking for the ejector to be fixed, and asked if the extractor could be tuned while there.

When I got the gun back today, I cycled dummy rounds and had multiple failures to eject. Pulled the extractor, and noted that the fitting pad was filed down quite a bit, but the hook itself seemed untouched. Here are a couple pictures of how the round fits under the claw.

Haven’t had a chance to shoot it until next week, but until then, does anything stand out as a red flag?

[BK14]

959039590295904

Well. Found the work order. Not sure why the chamber/ramp work as there weren’t any issues in the last couple thousand rounds after having a reputable smith already clean up the ramp…

Does the gap between the ramp and frame look right?

[JohnO]

Does the gap between the ramp and frame look right?

The frame/ramp gap on a ramped barrel should be completely out of the equation. Because the round being fed from the magazine encounters the ramp well above the frame/ramp interface.

Regarding the filing on the extractor pad. Due to the smaller cartridge size of the 9mm in a gun initially designed for the 45 ACP the extractor needs to reach over further to hold the 9 mm cartridge. Hence the removal of material to allow to extended reach.

[BK14]

The frame/ramp gap on a ramped barrel should be completely out of the equation. Because the round being fed from the magazine encounters the ramp well above the frame/ramp interface.

Regarding the filing on the extractor pad. Due to the smaller cartridge size of the 9mm in a gun initially designed for the 45 ACP the extractor needs to reach over further to hold the 9 mm cartridge. Hence the removal of material to allow to extended reach.

Thank you sir. That gives some peace of mind until I can put rounds through this to evaluate it.

[Joe in PNG]

Thank you sir. That gives some peace of mind until I can put rounds through this to evaluate it.

I had to do that on my Colt 9mm 1911 as well.

[KneeShot]

Hah, no worries. Damn smart phones!

In the event that I get a Dan Wesson and it's not as reliable as I want it to be out of the box, are there ANY good 1911 smiths that are currently accepting work and have reasonable turnaround times to do a Reliability Package?

A few years ago I sent a Colt S70 repro to John Harrison for a reliability package. The turn around time wasn’t long, maybe a month.

I’d contact some of the Smith’s. They might do a reliability job and you won’t need to get on a 5yr custom gun waiting list.

After see’ing Joe Chambers review of the Springfield 2011, and his “3.14 is always Pi, and math don’t lie” video he’d be my first contact.

or it sounds like Dan Wesson would make it right. I have an older Valor in .45 that I picked up in 2013. I put around 8,000 rounds through it. It ran reasonably well. I’d get an occasional feedway stoppage when it got moderately dirty. Drove me nuts! I suspect the chamber may need to be opened up a bit. I wasted a lot of time experimenting w/ magazine springs, measuring feed lips, etc. Should have probably just sent it back to DW. It’s at my parents house, I haven’t shot it in 7yrs.

I picked up a WC CQB .45 in 2015, runs great w/ their 500HD mags. I fully trust it for carry. Only issue I had was breaking a mainspring housing pin, and that may have been due to me experimenting w/ .45 super w/ out putting a heavier recoil spring in :) they fixed it free of charge.

[03RN]

Hopefully nothing lol. I thought I typed stuff with that pic.

I was getting marks on the brass from the top of the extractor and brass down the magwell. That pic is after some filing.

Boy that's annoying. All that work and it's still won't extract when shooting one hand only. Either stovepipes or down the magwell.

I guess I got spoiled with Wilson's extractors. The last 3 I installed just needed a little tension.

[03RN]

95991
Since I'm getting that mark I should file here. Right?
95992

Extraction is fine 2 handed no magazine but sho cases go down the magwell.

[Evil_Ed]

95991
Since I'm getting that mark I should file here. Right?
95992

Extraction is fine 2 handed no magazine but sho cases go down the magwell.


Yes, BUT - depending on the length of the extractor vs the slide..it might not be enough. Lots of extractors are long. If I remember right EGW extractors are cut a little shorter than most specifically to avoid this. See if you can shorten the extractor so it doesn't touch without compromising the hook...if you can't, you might need to buy an EGW and see if that's short enough.

Edit - if you're really married to that extractor, you could try re-cutting the slide stop notch a little further up, and silver soldering a shim in the rear of the slot and see if you could move it back that way? But that's a good bit of work. If you have the tools and stuff handy to do it, maybe it's a break even proposition for you vs just ordering a new EGW, but...not all of us have the right cutters, tooling, shim stock, or the ability to solder metal without needing a trip to the ER..

[CSW]

Added a tritium front sight to the RO elite today.
95995

95996

Dawson's sight.
190x120

[gato naranja]

Added a tritium front sight to the RO elite today.
95995

Dawson's sight.
190x120

Was the installation pretty straightforward? I have been contemplating something similar.

[CSW]

Was the installation pretty straightforward? I have been contemplating something similar.

Extremely. Drove the old one out, cleaned the dovetail of any schmutz, put some Vibra-tite in the dovetail and drove the new one in with their aluminum punch.

No fitting involved with this one. I had called Dawson and discussed my wants with them before I ordered.

He's got a vid on the install:


https://youtu.be/do8sHBDfIGk

[03RN]

Added a tritium front sight to the RO elite today.


Dawson's sight.


I think I've got the same front sight on my champion as well.

[CSW]

Went and sighted the new Dawson front sight and the RMRcc this morning.
Very much pleased with the results.
So new to the dot stuff, but it's like cheating if you really apply the fundamentals.
Low and right is all me. Dead center from a rest.
25 yard results.

96038

[SwampDweller]

Let's say I was to buy a 1911 and immediately send it off to Innovative Arms for their Reliability Package before even firing it: http://www.innovativecustomguns.com/p/gunsmith-services.html

Would I have a better chance of getting a reliable (using the metrics I've posted before, 1k rounds without a stoppage or 2k MRBS) starting with a Dan Wesson Valor, or a Colt Series 70 "Classic"? The Dan Wesson is basically $2200 for the duty finish (the only one I found in stock anywhere) and the Colt would come somewhere around $900. That said, price is a secondary concern.

I know it's weird to not at least shoot it first but I'd really like it to be as close to 100% as possible out of the box (even if the box was sent to a smith before I shot it). My reasoning is this:

Let's say I bought a Dan Wesson or anything else and shot 900 rounds through it, and had a stoppage at like 600 rounds. That's not enough for me to trust it, but I'd have to fire another 1000 rounds for a total of 1600 rounds just to know it can do it. It would suck even more if it kept happening and cases of .45 ammo have been expended.

[Joe in PNG]

Let's say I was to buy a 1911 and immediately send it off to Innovative Arms for their Reliability Package before even firing it: http://www.innovativecustomguns.com/p/gunsmith-services.html
Would I have a better chance of getting a reliable (using the metrics I've posted before, 1k rounds without a stoppage or 2 MRBS) starting with a Dan Wesson Valor, or a Colt Series 70 "Classic"? The Dan Wesson is basically $2200 for the duty finish (the only one I found in stock anywhere) and the Colt would come somewhere around $900. That said, price is a secondary concern.
I know it's weird to not at least shoot it first but I'd really like it to be as close to 100% as possible out of the box (even if the box was sent to a smith before I shot it). My reasoning is this:
Let's say I bought a Dan Wesson or anything else and shot 900 rounds through it, and had a stoppage at like 600 rounds. That's not enough for me to trust it, but I'd have to fire another 1000 rounds for a total of 1600 rounds just to know it can do it. It would suck even more if it kept happening and cases of .45 ammo have been expended.

Personally, if I was sending a gun off for some reliability work, I'd just go ahead with something like a Colt or Springer as the base gun.

The general consensus is that they're more than okay base guns if one replaces some bits with the better aftermarket bits (extractor, safety, sights, slide stop, and maybe the grip safety if you don't like the stock one). And then you have the extra to spend on ammo and good mags.

The real tricky bit for the 1911 is the extractor and the mags. The gunsmith trip should get your extractor working good. Testing mags is up to you.

[03RN]

96056

Alright,how can this not work?

[03RN]

Let's say I was to buy a 1911 and immediately send it off to Innovative Arms for their Reliability Package before even firing it: http://www.innovativecustomguns.com/p/gunsmith-services.html

Would I have a better chance of getting a reliable (using the metrics I've posted before, 1k rounds without a stoppage or 2k MRBS) starting with a Dan Wesson Valor, or a Colt Series 70 "Classic"? The Dan Wesson is basically $2200 for the duty finish (the only one I found in stock anywhere) and the Colt would come somewhere around $900. That said, price is a secondary concern.

I know it's weird to not at least shoot it first but I'd really like it to be as close to 100% as possible out of the box (even if the box was sent to a smith before I shot it). My reasoning is this:

Let's say I bought a Dan Wesson or anything else and shot 900 rounds through it, and had a stoppage at like 600 rounds. That's not enough for me to trust it, but I'd have to fire another 1000 rounds for a total of 1600 rounds just to know it can do it. It would suck even more if it kept happening and cases of .45 ammo have been expended.

There's so many weird things that can stop a gun I wouldn't worry about 1 stoppage in 600rds.

[Evil_Ed]

96056

Alright,how can this not work?

Should work, just make sure you've got enough tension, and then there's the whole deflection thing from the posts on 1911forum and etc. I don't exactly have shim or other stock laying around to make all the tools and gauges that Steve talks about in his posts, and of course no one makes/sells a gauge set for that, so all I can ever do is wing it.

[Evil_Ed]

Let's say I was to buy a 1911 and immediately send it off to Innovative Arms for their Reliability Package before even firing it: http://www.innovativecustomguns.com/p/gunsmith-services.html

Would I have a better chance of getting a reliable (using the metrics I've posted before, 1k rounds without a stoppage or 2k MRBS) starting with a Dan Wesson Valor, or a Colt Series 70 "Classic"? The Dan Wesson is basically $2200 for the duty finish (the only one I found in stock anywhere) and the Colt would come somewhere around $900. That said, price is a secondary concern.

I know it's weird to not at least shoot it first but I'd really like it to be as close to 100% as possible out of the box (even if the box was sent to a smith before I shot it). My reasoning is this:

Let's say I bought a Dan Wesson or anything else and shot 900 rounds through it, and had a stoppage at like 600 rounds. That's not enough for me to trust it, but I'd have to fire another 1000 rounds for a total of 1600 rounds just to know it can do it. It would suck even more if it kept happening and cases of .45 ammo have been expended.

You could, but what if all you needed to do was spend 5 minutes during your new gun detail strip, inspection, cleaning and lubrication to make sure the drop-in extractor was tensioned right, and then the gun is %100 and you put a thousand rounds through it with nothing more than some lubrication and good magazines? Then you just spent a bunch of money you didn't need to spend to fix something that wasn't a problem in the first place.

The two guns I sent off to a gunsmith for work, I didn't send off until after I had made sure they already worked out of the box and had put a couple thousand rounds through them each. Known quantity going out, known quantity coming back. If I sent a gun I hadn't tested for custom work and got it back and then the gun didn't run...was it a deeper problem in the gun (fundamental problems like the feed ramp was bad or the slide stop holes were canted subtly), or was it something the gunsmith screwed up (it does happen)?

Buy a gun, shoot it. If it's got problems, fix them (many are user fixable with a tiny bit of reading) or send it out to be fixed. If you buy a gun of reputable make with an average cost for the segment, it should be fine. Yes, this excludes things like Rock Island and similar cheap ones.* Your question/statement is akin to worrying about if that new Toyota you bought is going to last through your 30 mile commute, so after buying a new car from the dealership you immediately take it to a garage to have the whole engine rebuilt and brakes, spark plugs, and all engine harness wiring replaced.

Just make sure you have good mags from a known good source and good ammo. If you spent less than $10 per mag when they weren't even on sale and the ammo you bought new from Cabelas is mixed headstamp remans...well, you're about to get what you paid for.


* A word about the Joe Chambers videos - huge respect for what he does, and he's got a ton of talent and knowledge; far more than I'll ever have. I'd be happy to spend a day just watching him work; I'd learn a ton. But, he leaves out some key figures in some of the videos that I saw that IMO you really need to know. Maybe my memory is failing me, but when he did his Rock Island "math don't lie" video...did he mention the feed ramp depth and angle at all? I don't remember that he did, and that's the one measurement on a 1911 (feed ramp angle specifically, and depth has a minimum) that has no tolerance. If he did and my memory black holed it, then ignore...but I recall being a little surprised that of all the numbers he read out about the original 1911 TDP spec, he didn't mention that one.

[TOTS]

Evil_Ed is giving you some really good advice. Furthermore, that is why folks are urging you to spend the money on a more ‘name brand’ gun - spend the money up front to ensure you don’t have to send it out for a reliability package. And also, if you have a pistol that’s reliable to somewhere between one bobble every 600-1600 rnds; I’ll argue your money is better spent buying a case of ammo and a bag full of the better magazines than fixing a good gun. You can have a perfect gun but it’s still going to send a bullet to where your sights were when you pulled the trigger. And a garbage magazine will always be the limiting factor of a 1911, regardless of brand.

Buy the gun you like the most within your budget.

[HCM]

Gun: Les Baer PII
Setting: Casual range shooting
Failure: failures to extract
Fix: pending new extractor
My pistol.

Had this gun 8 years, bought it used. It’s a late 1990s gun. No idea on the round count but recoil and firing pin springs have been replaced. First issue with this gun so I’m assuming this is the first indication it’s time for a new extractor. Ammo was Remington 230 FMJ. The FTE occurred one or twice per mag with four different patterns of magazines.

96598

Question: considering two options for the new extractor: a Wilson Bulletproof or an Aftec ?

Which one and why (or why not)?

[gtmtnbiker98]

Gun: Les Baer PII
Setting: Casual range shooting
Failure: failures to extract
Fix: pending new extractor
My pistol.

Had this gun 8 years, bought it used. It’s a late 1990s gun. No idea on the round count but recoil and firing pin springs have been replaced. First issue with this gun so I’m assuming this is the first indication it’s time for a new extractor. Ammo was Remington 230 FMJ. The FTE occurred one or twice per mag with four different patterns of magazines.

96598

Question: considering two options for the new extractor: a Wilson Bulletproof or an Aftec ?

Which one and why (or why not)?Wilson bullet proof.

[SW CQB 45]

could it be it just needs to be re-tensioned?

[HCM]

could it be it just needs to be re-tensioned?

Maybe, but it’s the original in a 25 plus year old gun with an unknown round count.

But my understanding is extractors are consumables which do wear out.

[03RN]

96056

Alright,how can this not work?

Nope. Still drops cases down the magwell when shot single hand only.

Between this and my m66 I'm getting frustrated lol. I've got working, well vetted backups but there's something about not having the guns I shoot the most close at hand in working order.

[JohnO]

could it be it just needs to be re-tensioned?



Maybe, but it’s the original in a 25 plus year old gun with an unknown round count.

But my understanding is extractors are consumables which do wear out.


Keep in mind that a new extractor usually needs to be blended to sit flush with the rear of the slide.

The extractor in the picture is typical for a replacement and some may not care how it appears.

https://www.1911forum.com/attachments/extractor-jpg.46551/

[HCM]

Keep in mind that a new extractor usually needs to be blended to sit flush with the rear of the slide.

The extractor in the picture is typical for a replacement and some may not care how it appears.

https://www.1911forum.com/attachments/extractor-jpg.46551/

I don’t care how it appears as long as it works reliably. It’s tool.

[Robinson]

Question: considering two options for the new extractor: a Wilson Bulletproof or an Aftec ?

Which one and why (or why not)?

Eh, I would go with the Wilson Combat part which can be tuned in the traditional manner.

The AFTEC extractor is a neat idea that probably works fine, but if you go that route make sure you keep the extractor channel clean.

[Bucky]

The AFTEC extractor is a neat idea that probably works fine, but if you go that route make sure you keep the extractor channel clean.

Based on?

My first hand experience tends to differ.

I ran my open gun all last year without cleaning it, just oil before each match.well over 5K. Never hiccuped once. I can assure you the extractor channel was far from clean.

Oh, and the Aftec has been in it since day one, which was 23 years ago. Haven’t even used the replacement coil springs. Heck, it even outlasted the barrel and comp that’s since been replaced.

Side note, it took me 3 hours to get it thoroughly clean when the time came. :(

[Evil_Ed]

Based on?

My first hand experience tends to differ.

I ran my open gun all last year without cleaning it, just oil before each match.well over 5K. Never hiccuped once. I can assure you the extractor channel was far from clean.

Oh, and the Aftec has been in it since day one, which was 23 years ago. Haven’t even used the replacement coil springs. Heck, it even outlasted the barrel and comp that’s since been replaced.

Side note, it took me 3 hours to get it thoroughly clean when the time came. :(

Did the gun come with it, or did you fit it? Or did you send it out to be fitted?

To properly fit an Aftec you need to make some changes to the firing pin stop, as the FPS acts as a pivot point for the extractor. Basically you need to round the edges where the extractor meets the firing pin stop, so the extractor can be pushed in and out left to right, to and away from the breechface...which is something you do NOT want a normal extractor to do. You need to purposefully nerf part of the system for an Aftec, basically, and not everyone's equipped to do that.

Hell I've had an Aftec kicking around my parts box for more than 15 years now, because I didn't want to wind up fitting a firing pin stop _just_ for that extractor...plus, Aftecs don't work so great for 45 as compared to 38 Super or 9mm from everything I've read.

[Bucky]

Did the gun come with it, or did you fit it? Or did you send it out to be fitted?

To properly fit an Aftec you need to make some changes to the firing pin stop, as the FPS acts as a pivot point for the extractor. Basically you need to round the edges where the extractor meets the firing pin stop, so the extractor can be pushed in and out left to right, to and away from the breechface...which is something you do NOT want a normal extractor to do. You need to purposefully nerf part of the system for an Aftec, basically, and not everyone's equipped to do that.

Hell I've had an Aftec kicking around my parts box for more than 15 years now, because I didn't want to wind up fitting a firing pin stop _just_ for that extractor...plus, Aftecs don't work so great for 45 as compared to 38 Super or 9mm from everything I've read.

It was a custom built gun, and I spec’d it to have an Aftec. I did fit one to my .40, and didn’t remember it being too difficult, though that was a lifetime ago.

[JohnK]

I'd recommend a wilson bp as well. Though I have read some of Ned Christiansen's posts with an extremely high mileage Colt and Springfield and he seems to like EGW as well, but I don't have any experience with them.

[Bergeron]

I really appreciate the discussion regarding the aftec. I've never used one, but I've always been curious. Reading the above, I think I'll stay away.

I will re-emphasize getting a "reliability" job from known-good shops doesn't have be very expensive or take a ton of time. My cherished Delta went from being a once-a-mag-malfunction pistol into a gun that goes through 10-8 tests without a problem just by taking a path through Briley for a reliability job and is not (sadly, lol) any kind of full-up custom.

I do have a Springfield full-rail getting re-gutted over at Innovative Custom Guns with Mr. Jim Milks. No artistic work, just a bit of a rebuild, and I'll be very curious to get my dirty paws all over that gun and see what manifests itself.

[Robinson]

Based on?

Based on my thoroughly biased viewpoint on adding things to the 1911 that don't need added.

I think I've read about some people saying the Aftec runs great as long as it is clean. Maybe on the Enos forum, I'm not sure.

As you have direct experience with it and I don't, I will defer to you on the subject.

[Bucky]

Based on my thoroughly biased viewpoint on adding things to the 1911 that don't need added.

Fair point. To be honest my introduction to them could technically be out of necessity. When we were transitioning from round tube dots to flat bottomed CMores, ejection needed to be darn near horizontal to clear the gun. I’ve had a few friends rectify this with Aftecs, which is why I spec’d my gun with one.

When I converted to 9mm, I also changed the scope mount to hold to CMore at a 45 degree angle, thereby not obstructing the ejection port in any way. It also moves the dot much closer to the barrel, which I really like.

[JAD]

Let's say I was to buy a 1911 and immediately send it off to Innovative Arms for their Reliability Package before even firing it: http://www.innovativecustomguns.com/p/gunsmith-services.html

Would I have a better chance of getting a reliable (using the metrics I've posted before, 1k rounds without a stoppage or 2k MRBS) starting with a Dan Wesson Valor, or a Colt Series 70 "Classic"?

First, both guns are pretty likely to work, particularly the DW, so it would be a waste of money and a chance to introduce something that makes them not work. Second, you might find something about the gun that doesn’t work for you that isn’t included in the reliability package (every DW I’ve bought has needed a higher front sight) and have to send it off again. So, first, don’t do that. Shoot a couple hundred rounds first.

Second, if you go with the 70 (which is lovely) you’re going to need to do other work. If you’re putting thousands of rounds thorough it as you say you will need a beavertail, and probably an extended thumb safety. The DW already has those for less than half of what it will cost to have IA install, so buy the DW, unless you have some other stuff you want to wind up with like high power cuts and you’re already planning to spend thousands with IA and (like me) you think colts are extra cool.

[HCM]

Based on my thoroughly biased viewpoint on adding things to the 1911 that don't need added.

I think I've read about some people saying the Aftec runs great as long as it is clean. Maybe on the Enos forum, I'm not sure.

As you have direct experience with it and I don't, I will defer to you on the subject.

Those I know who run Aftec say the number one issue with them is improper installation. They are running them in high round count guns so they get run dirty.

[Robinson]

Those I know who run Aftec say the number one issue with them is improper installation. They are running them in high round count guns so they get run dirty.

And now thanks to this discussion I know more about it than I did before.

I would still go with the Wilson part because I understand it better.

[Trukinjp13]

I have a Trp I’ve been tinkering with trying to get right. It was brutalized by a terrible smith from previous owner. (Smith was supposed to be top notch, not previous owners fault) I am to the point that I’ve spent a lot of money on this in parts and time. I fitted a single sided BP safety and changed all springs. It has extraction issues, and needs new grip safety fitted.

I would like to find a smith to fit the Wilson BP beavertail safety to Nighthawk trigger assembly, install a ambi BP safety and fit a BP extractor. And if possible coat new parts with melonite to match coating on pistol.

I can do the work, but I’m no 1911 smith. With the investment I’ve put in I would rather spend some coin and have it perfect. I want it to be a working gun not a safe queen. I’m already above DW money between purchase and parts I’ve bought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[farscott]

Those I know who run Aftec say the number one issue with them is improper installation. They are running them in high round count guns so they get run dirty.

That has also been my experience. Keeping the little springs in place during installation can be a challenge, especially with a 9mm breech face due to how far inboard the extractor hook is. Getting one out of the pistol without losing a spring is a real challenge. Bad enough that I do the work with the slide in a Ziplock bag to minimize where the parts can fly.

[SW CQB 45]

I have a Trp I’ve been tinkering with trying to get right. It was brutalized by a terrible smith from previous owner. (Smith was supposed to be top notch, not previous owners fault) I am to the point that I’ve spent a lot of money on this in parts and time. I fitted a single sided BP safety and changed all springs. It has extraction issues, and needs new grip safety fitted.

I would like to find a smith to fit the Wilson BP beavertail safety to Nighthawk trigger assembly, install a ambi BP safety and fit a BP extractor. And if possible coat new parts with melonite to match coating on pistol.

I can do the work, but I’m no 1911 smith. With the investment I’ve put in I would rather spend some coin and have it perfect. I want it to be a working gun not a safe queen. I’m already above DW money between purchase and parts I’ve bought.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

this is purely a guess on my part,

fitting a beavertail grip safety means blending with the frame. That means the frame would need refinishing.

Unless there is a new method of fitting a grip safety, I am not aware of.

The original owner changed the factory finish from AK (Armory Kote) to Melonite?

[Bucky]

That has also been my experience. Keeping the little springs in place during installation can be a challenge, especially with a 9mm breech face due to how far inboard the extractor hook is. Getting one out of the pistol without losing a spring is a real challenge. Bad enough that I do the work with the slide in a Ziplock bag to minimize where the parts can fly.

Having lived with several of these for decades now, I don’t find either very challenging. Put the hood over the springs, and slide the extractor in the hole till it stops. Use a small screw driver to tip the forward part of the hood in and press it home.

I haven’t lost a spring yet, but I’m certain I just jinx myself. ;)

[Trukinjp13]

this is purely a guess on my part,

fitting a beavertail grip safety means blending with the frame. That means the frame would need refinishing.

Unless there is a new method of fitting a grip safety, I am not aware of.

The original owner changed the factory finish from AK (Armory Kote) to Melonite?

Wilson makes a Bp grip safety that does not need much massaging to fit the frame. It’s not a perfect blend, but functional. Hilton Yam uses them on his Springfield setups also.

Yes, the “gunsmith” refinished it with a dlc/melonite type coating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SW CQB 45]

I would like to find a smith to fit the Wilson BP beavertail safety to Nighthawk trigger assembly, install a ambi BP safety and fit a BP extractor. And if possible coat new parts with melonite to match coating on pistol.

I can do the work, but I’m no 1911 smith. With the investment I’ve put in I would rather spend some coin and have it perfect. I want it to be a working gun not a safe queen. I’m already above DW money between purchase and parts I’ve bought.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

if we were in the time frame of 2014ish, I would have told you to hook up with Rob at ACW, or SACS but they are long gone.

I have been referred to gunsmiths in the past but never followed up as I usually have too many projects and no $$$$ for that kind of stuff.
the smiths I was referred to were Evolution Armory and Derr Precision. I dont have a clue if they are taking work and turnaround time.

I jacked up my Officers ACP in the 90s, Rob/ACW got it back looking decent.
I got the front strap checkered from another as Rob had gone to Cabot when I got the money for that.
I over polished my feed ramp in the 90s and I might need a new ramp as Hollow Points dont feed reliably.
I was referred to Derr for that. I might speak to him in 2023.

my dad bought me this COACP in 1988. It will stay with me.
I have an ambi thumb safety project for it that I have been saving for the winter.

https://i.imgur.com/RbmDtJBh.jpg

I over cut the grip safety area on the frame in the 90s. Rob's welder could only put so much back.

I got some blending and thinning to complete. I got the used EGW Ambi cheap!

https://i.imgur.com/41m4H1zh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mE13szIh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/epia9Zwh.jpg

[Trukinjp13]

if we were in the time frame of 2014ish, I would have told you to hook up with Rob at ACW, or SACS but they are long gone.

I have been referred to gunsmiths in the past but never followed up as I usually have too many projects and no $$$$ for that kind of stuff.
the smiths I was referred to were Evolution Armory and Derr Precision. I dont have a clue if they are taking work and turnaround time.

I jacked up my Officers ACP in the 90s, Rob/ACW got it back looking decent.
I got the front strap checkered from another as Rob had gone to Cabot when I got the money for that.
I over polished my feed ramp in the 90s and I might need a new ramp as Hollow Points dont feed reliably.
I was referred to Derr for that. I might speak to him in 2023.

my dad bought me this COACP in 1988. It will stay with me.
I have an ambi thumb safety project for it that I have been saving for the winter.

https://i.imgur.com/RbmDtJBh.jpg

I over cut the grip safety area on the frame in the 90s. Rob's welder could only put so much back.

I got some blending and thinning to complete. I got the used EGW Ambi cheap!

https://i.imgur.com/41m4H1zh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mE13szIh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/epia9Zwh.jpg

I’ll give them a call, thank you. I really want to just have this done right so I can shoot the thing. I wish the factory coating was on her still as well. But should be a shooter when finished

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221111/af6ff2b50a854d7e3f7be235103ffbcf.jpg


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[farscott]

Having lived with several of these for decades now, I don’t find either very challenging. Put the hood over the springs, and slide the extractor in the hole till it stops. Use a small screw driver to tip the forward part of the hood in and press it home.

I haven’t lost a spring yet, but I’m certain I just jinx myself. ;)

I am very unlucky when it comes to flying gun parts. I have even misplaced a guide rod from a S&W M3914. I finally found it when we were moving out of the home -- two years later. As such, little springs and detents that can fly are my nemesis.

[SW CQB 45]

We had night quals Thursday night and I pumped 200 rounds through my personal MCOP.

It ran fine lubed with Trident and 230 ball, however I keep breaking my front fiber optic.

https://i.imgur.com/4KSJexfh.jpg

This big ol ball will not work with a Safariland 6360 duty holster. The front sight is making contact with the ALS fixture upon reholstering and my F/O rod is short lived.

https://i.imgur.com/dIZEaN9h.jpg

I took a 1/16" drill bit and drilled the hole to allow F/O to fill the larger area to keep the ball below the outer dimensions of the front sight.

https://i.imgur.com/F7OX9fjh.jpg

there is a slight belly over hanging (I am used to that... HA)

https://i.imgur.com/Hdhrwc4h.jpg

if you look at the top of edge of the front sight, it has some denting. I guess the plastic ALS fixture acts like a mallet with every draw and re-holster.

https://i.imgur.com/48SNXPsh.jpg

Over 17K, she is just starting to break in. I should be close to 18

https://i.imgur.com/avhlAAqh.jpg

[TOTS]

We had night quals Thursday night and I pumped 200 rounds through my personal MCOP.

It ran fine lubed with Trident and 230 ball, however I keep breaking my front fiber optic.

https://i.imgur.com/4KSJexfh.jpg

This big ol ball will not work with a Safariland 6360 duty holster. The front sight is making contact with the ALS fixture upon reholstering and my F/O rod is short lived.


I took a 1/16" drill bit and drilled the hole to allow F/O to fill the larger area to keep the ball below the outer dimensions of the front sight.

there is a slight belly over hanging (I am used to that... HA)


if you look at the top of edge of the front sight, it has some denting. I guess the plastic ALS fixture acts like a mallet with every draw and re-holster.


Over 17K, she is just starting to break in. I should be close to 18



Man, I love that gun!!

[Jason F]

....

I took a 1/16" drill bit and drilled the hole to allow F/O to fill the larger area to keep the ball below the outer dimensions of the front sight.

https://i.imgur.com/F7OX9fjh.jpg


That's a good solve, well done. Hopefully that'll help over the coming months.

[SW CQB 45]

this is likely the culprit for my front sight.

the nut imbedded in the ALS lever is all scuffed up from my front sight.

My original 6360 nut was brass IIRC.

While F/O rod is too fragile to stay alive is a duty piece, I prefer it over a night sight.

In night qual, the lack of a fiber optic glow was a non-issue.

https://i.imgur.com/2opnTfph.jpg

[RJ]

Right, so a specific question on recoil spring weights.

Gun is a new 2022, 5" Springfield Garrison, in .45 ACP, stock parts except for a WC BP Ambi Thumb Safety added by my 'smith last month. I am currently using what I understand is a 16# standard SA recoil spring, as from the factory. All ammo to date has been a mix of Federal AE and S&B 230 FMJ. Ejection is ok; up and to the right, but I have no specific observations.

My question is as regards to what will happen if I fit a WC 18# spring. The intent of fitting the stiffer spring is in anticipation of shooting +p and/or JHP ammo. My application for this gun is for "pin shooting", i.e. knocking off 2.5 lb bowling pins off a table set at 7 yards. I'm advised that it is preferable to use either JHP ammo or +p (or both) for maximum effectiveness. Setting aside whether that's correct (I believe it is, based on inputs I've received):

Will there be an effects, adverse or otherwise, in fitting the 18# spring for the test of JHP/+p ammo, and then leaving that spring in the gun to shoot the FMJ for practice?

I am guessing the 18# spring will make it harder to rack? And perhaps dampen felt recoil a bit? Anything else?

[SW CQB 45]

Right, so a specific question on recoil spring weights.

Gun is a new 2022, 5" Springfield Garrison, in .45 ACP, stock parts except for a WC BP Ambi Thumb Safety added by my 'smith last month. I am currently using what I understand is a 16# standard SA recoil spring, as from the factory. All ammo to date has been a mix of Federal AE and S&B 230 FMJ. Ejection is ok; up and to the right, but I have no specific observations.

My question is as regards to what will happen if I fit a WC 18# spring. The intent of fitting the stiffer spring is in anticipation of shooting +p and/or JHP ammo. My application for this gun is for "pin shooting", i.e. knocking off 2.5 lb bowling pins off a table set at 7 yards. I'm advised that it is preferable to use either JHP ammo or +p (or both) for maximum effectiveness. Setting aside whether that's correct (I believe it is, based on inputs I've received):

Will there be an effects, adverse or otherwise, in fitting the 18# spring for the test of JHP/+p ammo, and then leaving that spring in the gun to shoot the FMJ for practice?

I am guessing the 18# spring will make it harder to rack? And perhaps dampen felt recoil a bit? Anything else?

I switch to 18.5 for 230 ball and 230 Gold Dot some years ago and developed primary hand wrist pain. I moved back to 16# and the pain went away and decided to stick with that and change my spring more often. if racking the slide was more difficult, I did not feel it, but it was suggested that my wrist pain possibly developed from the slide snapping back into battery with more authority from the stronger spring.

JohnK told me about the 17# and I tested it out and it's been running good for me.

I have a lot of 16# but built up my supply of 17#.

I don't have a round count of when I change my springs, but when the spring is noticeably shorter, I will dig out a fresh one and compare. I will change as needed.

[SW CQB 45]

Alright, here comes the test. 2005 Green-eee

I am hoping to pump out at least 500 rounds of 230 ball if the class lets me.

I put a WC extractor in it and was getting alot of brass contact and its possible it's too long (something out of spec).

I honed on it a lot and time will tell.

The MIM factory trigger group had a gross hitch and could not iron it out. I bought some used WC components for cheap just to have a cleaner trigger break around 5#

and if I cannot see that front sight, I got problems.

https://i.imgur.com/lKwR3ioh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8pV835bh.jpg

[BillSWPA]

I use 18.5 lb. Springs in my series 1 Kimber 5”, with good results.


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[Elwin]

I use an 18 for 230 (and 235 to be specific) grain practice ammo and it works fine with HST (standard pressure) as well - I doubt I’d change up to accommodate for +P unless I was shooting a ton of it. The same spring set (paired with a 23lb mainspring) even works OK with 200gr target loads, though that’s asking a lot and those will give the occasional FTE.

[Chuck Whitlock]

this is likely the culprit for my front sight.

the nut imbedded in the ALS lever is all scuffed up from my front sight.

My original 6360 nut was brass IIRC.

While F/O rod is too fragile to stay alive is a duty piece, I prefer it over a night sight.

In night qual, the lack of a fiber optic glow was a non-issue.

https://i.imgur.com/2opnTfph.jpg

I had the same thing happen with a Glock 6360...front sight ground down the plastic around the nut until the sight was dragging on the nut itself. I contacted Safariland and they sent me a replacement ALS mechanism.

[Robinson]

Right, so a specific question on recoil spring weights.

Gun is a new 2022, 5" Springfield Garrison, in .45 ACP, stock parts except for a WC BP Ambi Thumb Safety added by my 'smith last month. I am currently using what I understand is a 16# standard SA recoil spring, as from the factory. All ammo to date has been a mix of Federal AE and S&B 230 FMJ. Ejection is ok; up and to the right, but I have no specific observations.

My question is as regards to what will happen if I fit a WC 18# spring. The intent of fitting the stiffer spring is in anticipation of shooting +p and/or JHP ammo. My application for this gun is for "pin shooting", i.e. knocking off 2.5 lb bowling pins off a table set at 7 yards. I'm advised that it is preferable to use either JHP ammo or +p (or both) for maximum effectiveness. Setting aside whether that's correct (I believe it is, based on inputs I've received):

Will there be an effects, adverse or otherwise, in fitting the 18# spring for the test of JHP/+p ammo, and then leaving that spring in the gun to shoot the FMJ for practice?

I am guessing the 18# spring will make it harder to rack? And perhaps dampen felt recoil a bit? Anything else?

I don't know about +P, but 230gr HST runs great in all my Government Models with 16# recoil springs.

[Joe in PNG]

I'm looking at Brownell's page for Wilson 9mm 1911 mags (https://www.brownells.com/magazines/handgun-magazines/magazines/index.htm?avs%7cMake_3=1911&avs%7cManufacturer_1=wilson+combat&avs%7cCartridge_1=APP_9%2bmm%2bLuger).

Which one is the preferred choice for say, a Colt Commander?

[CSW]

I'm looking at Brownell's page for Wilson 9mm 1911 mags (https://www.brownells.com/magazines/handgun-magazines/magazines/index.htm?avs%7cMake_3=1911&avs%7cManufacturer_1=wilson+combat&avs%7cCartridge_1=APP_9%2bmm%2bLuger).

Which one is the preferred choice for say, a Colt Commander?

I've used these (https://shopwilsoncombat.com/MAGAZINE-1911-ELITE-TACTICAL-9MM-FULL-SIZE-10-ROUND-ETM-BASE-PAD/productinfo/500-9/) with so/so results in MY springer.

Tried Ed Brown mags for my gun, never looked back.

ED BROWN (https://www.edbrown.com/product/magazine/)

[JTQ]

Tried Ed Brown mags for my gun, never looked back.

ED BROWN (https://www.edbrown.com/product/magazine/)
In the event Ed Brown is out of stock, Ed Brown's mags are currently a CheckMate product

Thunder Mountain Custom https://www.shop.1911parts.com/Check-Mate-9MM-Match-Magazine-9-Round-Welded-Base-cm-9mm-9-s.htm

[Trooper224]

I use the Wilson ETM with my 9mm Springfield RO, they run 100%, so do the factory supplied Checkmates.

In my .45 1911s I use an 18.5# spring. This works reliably with full power loads using both 230 and 200 grain bullets. No issues with a 16# spring either. I just prefer the recoil impulse of the 18.5, which presents no difficulties in racking the slide, with my somewhat arthritic hands. I keep a round count log on all my working guns and change recoil springs every 3,000 rounds.

[Pepper]

Ed Brown has a Mag Exchange Program too: https://www.edbrown.com/magexchange/ I traded all of my old garbage mags for shiny new ones.

[RJ]

Right, so a specific question on recoil spring weights.

Gun is a new 2022, 5" Springfield Garrison, in .45 ACP, stock parts except for a WC BP Ambi Thumb Safety added by my 'smith last month. I am currently using what I understand is a 16# standard SA recoil spring, as from the factory. All ammo to date has been a mix of Federal AE and S&B 230 FMJ. Ejection is ok; up and to the right, but I have no specific observations.

My question is as regards to what will happen if I fit a WC 18# spring. The intent of fitting the stiffer spring is in anticipation of shooting +p and/or JHP ammo. My application for this gun is for "pin shooting", i.e. knocking off 2.5 lb bowling pins off a table set at 7 yards. I'm advised that it is preferable to use either JHP ammo or +p (or both) for maximum effectiveness. Setting aside whether that's correct (I believe it is, based on inputs I've received):

Will there be an effects, adverse or otherwise, in fitting the 18# spring for the test of JHP/+p ammo, and then leaving that spring in the gun to shoot the FMJ for practice?

I am guessing the 18# spring will make it harder to rack? And perhaps dampen felt recoil a bit? Anything else?

Just wanted to update this question with some considerations based on input here and elsewhere.

I'm finding out that the 1911 allows quite a bit of fiddling around with different parts and springs. Not only does the recoil spring affect recoil (duh) but also involved are the hammer (main) spring weight as well as the shape of the bottom rear of the firing pin stop, oddly enough.

As a baseline, I am going on the assumption (trying to confirm with Springfield CS, direct) the gun has a 16 lb recoil spring and a 23 pound mainspring, and a radiused firing pin stop. Comparing the specifications for my preferred ammo options, Federal American Eagle 230 FMJ (AE45A) and Personal Defense HST 230 (P45HST2S), both cartridges are listed at 890 f/s and 404 ft lb of energy at the muzzle. So perhaps I don't need to be looking at a heavier recoil spring, just for shooting JHP.

As to +p, I think "for me" the advantages are more theoretical than actual. I'll still need a center of mass hit on the pin, and having 10% hotter ammo isn't going to help me do that, despite having more momentum (mass x velocity). The additional wear in my gun I am not sure is worth it. And +p will increase my split times. Lastly, I can practice with AE and save the JHP for the match, Since the two rounds, AE and HST, have identical ballistics (providing my gun runs JHP, of course) once I develop an index where to hold my front sight dot (I have a Dawson FO installed), I can do that consistently.


What was really interesting was the FPS, though, and the geometry effects of the flat bottom vs curved firing pin stop. The stock part in the Garrison is a rounded bottom. From what I can tell, a 5/64" radius was added by JMB to address Army concerns and lessen the force needed by GIs to rack an empty pistol in WWI? At any rate, I read some more articles and it appears the installation of a square bottom FPS (properly radiused and fitted) will delay the slide movement just enough to allow the bullet more time to exit, with a side effect of reducing perceived recoil...I may not be 100% understanding all this, but that's the impression I got.

Based on that, I think at this point I'll leave the current main and recoil springs as is, and order a square bottom FPS to fit and install. I'm looking at either the EGW O/S or WC Bullet Proof part. I will then see how the gun tracks with that one change, THEN assess any recoil or mainspring changes, such as the below WC spring kit.

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/SPRING-KIT-CUSTOM-TUNE-1911-FULL-SIZE/productinfo/324G/

If the results are satisfactory, I'll get a box of the JHP and verify it runs. If that all works out, I should be on the way to an effective setup for pin shooting.

[45dotACP]

I've tried a flat bottomed FPS and for me, it was a lot of extra work for not a lot of benefit...

The 18lb recoil spring and 23lb hammer spring were much more significant in how the gun behaved. Ran everything from my light handloads to the 220gr Hornady +P critical duty

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[BK14]

Well, the 1911 is shelved again. After I got my gun back from Springfield I noticed that the extractor was very loose and would rattle when shaken. Dummy rounds cycles through would regularly get stuck between the extractor and the upper part of the breach face instead of ejecting.

I’ve been shooting the gun the last few weeks. About 400 rounds, including about 70 Gold Dots or Ranger-Ts. Zero malfunctions, and passed the 10-8 test, although some cases would have clearly weaker ejection. Shooting today, and I got another of the same malfunction for the first time.

Round extracts from chamber, but appears to be torqued into the upper part of the breach face, where it narrows. Case is stuck on the extractor hook, with another round attempting to feed.

Back to the Glock I go. I’m attempting one more time to fit a new extractor and slide stop to eliminate the chance of the extractor clocking. I’ve dumped way too much money into this gun in the last few years. For it to not run is just not okay.

Planning on getting a Wilson BP slide stop and extractor. Any opinion on the Wilson vs egw extractor for a 9mm gun?

[RevolverRob]

I'm looking at Brownell's page for Wilson 9mm 1911 mags (https://www.brownells.com/magazines/handgun-magazines/magazines/index.htm?avs%7cMake_3=1911&avs%7cManufacturer_1=wilson+combat&avs%7cCartridge_1=APP_9%2bmm%2bLuger).

Which one is the preferred choice for say, a Colt Commander?

Wilson ETM (the cheaper ones) are generally good.

If they give you trouble just switch to Tripp Cobra Mags.

[RevolverRob]

Just wanted to update this question with some considerations based on input here and elsewhere.

I'm finding out that the 1911 allows quite a bit of fiddling around with different parts and springs. Not only does the recoil spring affect recoil (duh) but also involved are the hammer (main) spring weight as well as the shape of the bottom rear of the firing pin stop, oddly enough.

As a baseline, I am going on the assumption (trying to confirm with Springfield CS, direct) the gun has a 16 lb recoil spring and a 23 pound mainspring, and a radiused firing pin stop. Comparing the specifications for my preferred ammo options, Federal American Eagle 230 FMJ (AE45A) and Personal Defense HST 230 (P45HST2S), both cartridges are listed at 890 f/s and 404 ft lb of energy at the muzzle. So perhaps I don't need to be looking at a heavier recoil spring, just for shooting JHP.

As to +p, I think "for me" the advantages are more theoretical than actual. I'll still need a center of mass hit on the pin, and having 10% hotter ammo isn't going to help me do that, despite having more momentum (mass x velocity). The additional wear in my gun I am not sure is worth it. And +p will increase my split times. Lastly, I can practice with AE and save the JHP for the match, Since the two rounds, AE and HST, have identical ballistics (providing my gun runs JHP, of course) once I develop an index where to hold my front sight dot (I have a Dawson FO installed), I can do that consistently.


What was really interesting was the FPS, though, and the geometry effects of the flat bottom vs curved firing pin stop. The stock part in the Garrison is a rounded bottom. From what I can tell, a 5/64" radius was added by JMB to address Army concerns and lessen the force needed by GIs to rack an empty pistol in WWI? At any rate, I read some more articles and it appears the installation of a square bottom FPS (properly radiused and fitted) will delay the slide movement just enough to allow the bullet more time to exit, with a side effect of reducing perceived recoil...I may not be 100% understanding all this, but that's the impression I got.

Based on that, I think at this point I'll leave the current main and recoil springs as is, and order a square bottom FPS to fit and install. I'm looking at either the EGW O/S or WC Bullet Proof part. I will then see how the gun tracks with that one change, THEN assess any recoil or mainspring changes, such as the below WC spring kit.

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/SPRING-KIT-CUSTOM-TUNE-1911-FULL-SIZE/productinfo/324G/

If the results are satisfactory, I'll get a box of the JHP and verify it runs. If that all works out, I should be on the way to an effective setup for pin shooting.

Man you got 1911itis.

1911itis: When you get your first 1911 and get the overwhelming urge to modify it.

___

I'd try the 18# recoil spring and 23# mainspring (per 45dotACP's suggestion) first. It's much easier to replace springs than fit a new FPS.

[awp_101]

Just wanted to update this question with some considerations based on input here and elsewhere.

I'm finding out that the 1911 allows quite a bit of fiddling around with different parts and springs. Not only does the recoil spring affect recoil (duh) but also involved are the hammer (main) spring weight as well as the shape of the bottom rear of the firing pin stop, oddly enough.

As a baseline, I am going on the assumption (trying to confirm with Springfield CS, direct) the gun has a 16 lb recoil spring and a 23 pound mainspring, and a radiused firing pin stop. Comparing the specifications for my preferred ammo options, Federal American Eagle 230 FMJ (AE45A) and Personal Defense HST 230 (P45HST2S), both cartridges are listed at 890 f/s and 404 ft lb of energy at the muzzle. So perhaps I don't need to be looking at a heavier recoil spring, just for shooting JHP.

As to +p, I think "for me" the advantages are more theoretical than actual. I'll still need a center of mass hit on the pin, and having 10% hotter ammo isn't going to help me do that, despite having more momentum (mass x velocity). The additional wear in my gun I am not sure is worth it. And +p will increase my split times. Lastly, I can practice with AE and save the JHP for the match, Since the two rounds, AE and HST, have identical ballistics (providing my gun runs JHP, of course) once I develop an index where to hold my front sight dot (I have a Dawson FO installed), I can do that consistently.


What was really interesting was the FPS, though, and the geometry effects of the flat bottom vs curved firing pin stop. The stock part in the Garrison is a rounded bottom. From what I can tell, a 5/64" radius was added by JMB to address Army concerns and lessen the force needed by GIs to rack an empty pistol in WWI? At any rate, I read some more articles and it appears the installation of a square bottom FPS (properly radiused and fitted) will delay the slide movement just enough to allow the bullet more time to exit, with a side effect of reducing perceived recoil...I may not be 100% understanding all this, but that's the impression I got.

Based on that, I think at this point I'll leave the current main and recoil springs as is, and order a square bottom FPS to fit and install. I'm looking at either the EGW O/S or WC Bullet Proof part. I will then see how the gun tracks with that one change, THEN assess any recoil or mainspring changes, such as the below WC spring kit.

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/SPRING-KIT-CUSTOM-TUNE-1911-FULL-SIZE/productinfo/324G/

If the results are satisfactory, I'll get a box of the JHP and verify it runs. If that all works out, I should be on the way to an effective setup for pin shooting.


Man you got 1911itis.

1911itis: When you get your first 1911 and get the overwhelming urge to modify it.

97220

[RJ]

I'd try the 18# recoil spring and 23# mainspring (per 45dotACP's suggestion) first. It's much easier to replace springs than fit a new FPS.

Rob - Turns out I have an 18.5 WC spring, which sorta kinda accidentally fell into the shopping cart with my last order with them. I will probably go try it at the range, can't hurt to get a feel of it with some rounds. I'll more than likely order the WC BP flat bottom FPS, some files and cold blue, because I'm just curious about this stuff for some odd reason.

[RevolverRob]

because I'm just curious about this stuff for some odd reason.

That's what 1911itis does to you...makes you itch.

Beats other kinds of ailments you could have though...:eek:;)

[Gary1911A1]

Well, the 1911 is shelved again. After I got my gun back from Springfield I noticed that the extractor was very loose and would rattle when shaken. Dummy rounds cycles through would regularly get stuck between the extractor and the upper part of the breach face instead of ejecting.

I’ve been shooting the gun the last few weeks. About 400 rounds, including about 70 Gold Dots or Ranger-Ts. Zero malfunctions, and passed the 10-8 test, although some cases would have clearly weaker ejection. Shooting today, and I got another of the same malfunction for the first time.

Round extracts from chamber, but appears to be torqued into the upper part of the breach face, where it narrows. Case is stuck on the extractor hook, with another round attempting to feed.

Back to the Glock I go. I’m attempting one more time to fit a new extractor and slide stop to eliminate the chance of the extractor clocking. I’ve dumped way too much money into this gun in the last few years. For it to not run is just not okay.

Planning on getting a Wilson BP slide stop and extractor. Any opinion on the Wilson vs egw extractor for a 9mm gun?
Have you seen this video? https://youtu.be/vi-Rztz4E_Q

[CarloMNL]

Have you seen this video? https://youtu.be/vi-Rztz4E_Q

When I was still running 1911s, I came across an article by Hilton Yam suggesting a 17lb. recoil spring paired with a 19lb hammer spring. I tried it and liked how the gun felt in recoil. I stayed with that combo until I sold all my 1911s.

I think the other combo he recommends is a 16lb recoil spring with a stock (23lb) hammer spring.

[RJ]

As a baseline, I am going on the assumption (trying to confirm with Springfield CS, direct...)



Got this confirmed today, my pistol (5" .45 Garrison) has a 16# recoil spring and 23# mainspring. This is what SA customer service sent me today:

Good morning,

The pistol with Serial number NM7xxxxx, has a 16lb recoil spring with part number PI0030 and a 23lb mainspring with part number PI0054. I have added a link to a tune-up kit on our store that has both springs in it. Thank you and have a great day.

https://store.springfield-armory.com/1911-spring-tune-up-kit-45-acp/

[TOTS]

Man you got 1911itis.

1911itis: When you get your first 1911 and get the overwhelming urge to modify it.

___

I'd try the 18# recoil spring and 23# mainspring (per @45dotACP (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=8751)'s suggestion) first. It's much easier to replace springs than fit a new FPS.


Rob - Turns out I have an 18.5 WC spring, which sorta kinda accidentally fell into the shopping cart with my last order with them. I will probably go try it at the range, can't hurt to get a feel of it with some rounds. I'll more than likely order the WC BP flat bottom FPS, some files and cold blue, because I'm just curious about this stuff for some odd reason.


When I was still running 1911s, I came across an article by Hilton Yam suggesting a 17lb. recoil spring paired with a 19lb hammer spring. I tried it and liked how the gun felt in recoil. I stayed with that combo until I sold all my 1911s.

I think the other combo he recommends is a 16lb recoil spring with a stock (23lb) hammer spring.
While I have had good experiences with combinations from 16-18.5, Joe Chambers of Chambers Custom recommended a 18.5 recoil/ 23 lb mainspring combo for the best balance of reliability, shoot ability, and sight tracking (specifically preventing muzzle dipping). I believe Sprinco springs are what he uses. I have since followed his recommendations in both my 9mm and .45s to good effect. I’m sold.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O_NrooMVMms

[Ichiban]

While I have had good experiences with combinations from 16-18.5, Joe Chambers of Chambers Custom recommended a 18.5 recoil/ 23 lb mainspring combo for the best balance of reliability, shoot ability, and sight tracking (specifically preventing muzzle dipping). I believe Sprinco springs are what he uses. I have since followed his recommendations in both my 9mm and .45s to good effect. I’m sold.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O_NrooMVMms

That seems like it is kinda over-sprung for a 9mm. I thought that the 9mm recoil spring was normally 10 lbs for a full size and 12 lbs for a commander.

But I've never built a 1911 so I might just be repeating misinformation and I'll get my account locked for it. :p

[Trooper224]

That seems like it is kinda over-sprung for a 9mm. I thought that the 9mm recoil spring was normally 10 lbs for a full size and 12 lbs for a commander.

But I've never built a 1911 so I might just be repeating misinformation and I'll get my account locked for it. :p

I've had good performance from a 14# spring in my 5 inch 9mm.

[JohnK]

I think back when ToddG ran is warren 1911, Jason Burton recommended 14# variable rate recoil springs. I have used that in my 9mm 1911 for a couple thousand rounds and the guy I bought it from did the same and it has never had a hiccup in my ownership and he indicated the same in his. Altogether there is about 5,500 through it.

[TOTS]

That seems like it is kinda over-sprung for a 9mm. I thought that the 9mm recoil spring was normally 10 lbs for a full size and 12 lbs for a commander.

But I've never built a 1911 so I might just be repeating misinformation and I'll get my account locked for it. :p
I’m definitely no expert, but from my experience, 10 lbs was absolutely the lowest I would go. My DW Valor 5 in came stock with a 10 lb spring and was 100% with it. So I can’t knock it too bad. However. Slide velocity was notably quicker to return to battery with the 13, and with more authority. Recoil impulse honestly didn’t change from what I could tell, but the sight return markedly improved. From what I understand, as you get heavier, the spring begins to introduce muzzle dip as the barrel locks up. With the 13, the sights fall right back to where they lifted from.

Only negative was the increased effort to rack the slide.

[JAH 3rd]

In regards to SA 1911s, is the mainspring poundage different for pistols with the ILS vs one without the ILS?

[Robinson]

In regards to SA 1911s, is the mainspring poundage different for pistols with the ILS vs one without the ILS?

Yes. The ILS main spring is shorter and is rated at 30 pounds. A standard main spring is rated at 23 pounds for a Government Model 45.

[JAH 3rd]

Robinson, thank you!

[Ichiban]

I've had good performance from a 14# spring in my 5 inch 9mm.


I’m definitely no expert, but from my experience, 10 lbs was absolutely the lowest I would go. My DW Valor 5 in came stock with a 10 lb spring and was 100% with it. So I can’t knock it too bad. However. Slide velocity was notably quicker to return to battery with the 13, and with more authority. Recoil impulse honestly didn’t change from what I could tell, but the sight return markedly improved. From what I understand, as you get heavier, the spring begins to introduce muzzle dip as the barrel locks up. With the 13, the sights fall right back to where they lifted from.

Only negative was the increased effort to rack the slide.

This is why I like this forum so much - lots of real life experiences amongst the members. :)

[Trooper224]

This is why I like this forum so much - lots of real life experiences amongst the members. :)

My Springfield came with a 9# spring, which is far too low. That's one of the Prodigys problems, especially with a full length slide. My RO was right on the ragged edge of functionality with so light a spring.

[SW CQB 45]

Alright, here comes the test. 2005 Green-eee

I am hoping to pump out at least 500 rounds of 230 ball if the class lets me.

I put a WC extractor in it and was getting alot of brass contact and its possible it's too long (something out of spec).

I honed on it a lot and time will tell.

The MIM factory trigger group had a gross hitch and could not iron it out. I bought some used WC components for cheap just to have a cleaner trigger break around 5#

and if I cannot see that front sight, I got problems.

https://i.imgur.com/lKwR3ioh.jpg


This was a complete failure, but not what you think.

The weather did not behave which caused us to schedule changes to classroom time and work around the rain. We dealt with the wind and cold (40s).

We had some cadets that required additional focus and thus I only shot around 250 or so rounds. Toward the end of day two or three, I racked the slide and felt and heard crunchy.

It was windy and that range has some fine powder like dirt/sand. I was on the ground several times before the rain started (got the groundwork done first) and that dirt likely came from that. I had one mag that locked the slide back when empty but would not drop free. As I ripped it out, I could feel the dirt causing the interference. I reloaded and shot and never felt the dirt again, but I did not get to shoot the amount I had intended. So foooey!

One day, I had three layers of pants and four layers of shirts because of the cold, my draw was so slow!!!!!!

https://i.imgur.com/BniTcOKh.jpg

[Catshooter]

The best laid plans . . .

Life can go like that sometimes. Now though, you can see some of its limitations.

[03RN]

I'd say 250 rounds in harsh conditions is a better test then 500 in perfect conditions.

[JohnK]

I'd say 250 rounds in harsh conditions is a better test then 500 in perfect conditions.

I would second that. With that said, I had a baer in the holster rolling around on the ground and shooting in a class and all the dust that kicked up into the gun (plus all of the residue) caused it to have a few stoppages but I cleared them with haste and whatever "cronch" was in there worked itself out.

[SW CQB 45]

in the late 90s early 2000s, before we were allowed 1911 carry, I used to carry a Smith & Wesson Performance Center CQB 45 on duty (SW CQB 45 my prefix) and it's a fitted SW 4500 and I lubed it with Tetra grease the day before night training and qualification. It was unusally dark that evening with hardly any ambient light from the city lights.

It was in the mid 20s that night and huge lessoned learned, the grease and 20-degree temps do mix. I had a single shot 8 shot .45acp. All they kept hearing (it was dark) "BANG", cussing, slapping, racking, "BANG", cussing... REPEAT. The slide was not moving enough to kick out the empties. The rock throwing was heavy that evening. Fun times.

it was the aluminum frame two tone.
https://i.imgur.com/6zKGZ7Yh.jpg

[Catshooter]

Those were fine weapons weren't they.

I carried a Shorty .45 for years, loved it. Too damn bad they stopped supporting them.

[SW CQB 45]

Those were fine weapons weren't they.

I carried a Shorty .45 for years, loved it. Too damn bad they stopped supporting them.

Both CQBs were mine, one all stainless, the other alum frame and blackened stainless slide. the upper left hand corner is the front end of my dad's Shorty 45. All 3 were performers.

I goth the Shorty when my dad passed in 2005 and decided to push them all when SW stop making parts for 3rd Gen Smiths.

[RJ]

As a lefty, I’ve experience malfunctions caused by pushing on the slide stop pin. I tried to address that today by flush cutting the pin:
97864

It occurred to me I have a small flat abrasive disk in my rotary tool kit. I decided to have a try on the Springfield factory MIM part, as this would be easy to replace if I messed up. I chucked it into my vise, put on my safety glasses and went to work slowly. It took maybe 30-45 minutes, stopping to check the fit from time to time.

I finished with 800 then 2000 wet/dry, then a bit of Flitz. I need to get some treatment (Cold Blue?) so it matches the slide, but it doesn’t look too bad as it is.

Dry practice, it works well; I can now use my natural grip and not worry as much about pushing the slide stop pin locking up the slide.

[SW CQB 45]

Nice job


You reminded me of this
Between 2003 -2005, our city was plagued with heavy prison gang drive by shootings. I was pulling my gun out on a lot of traffic stops 4 nights a work week. We got into a car chase where both the driver and passenger were shooting out of the car at a night club. The car crashed into another car and the driver gave up quickly. The passenger would not listen to commands and nor would he exit. He just stayed looking forward in the front passenger seat. I saw a line of bushes that offered concealment right up to where he was positioned in the car. I made my way up this line and took my sights on him and observed a 1911 in his hands at somewhat of a high ready position with the muzzle angled up. I was about 7-10 yards angled to his rear and he had no clue I was there. He was still faced forward with a hard focus. I communicated to him that he would not win, to drop the gun and put his hands up. I still recall what seemed like minutes, but it was likely seconds he faced forward with no movement and then his eyes slowly turned to his right but the 1911 never moved from being pointed forward.

While the car was well lit up with quite a few patrol units, when I made my presence known, I also put a handheld light beam on him (probably a 60 lumen Surefire, hey that was the shit back then) and notice the 1911 was missing the slide stop pin as all I saw was the hole from the ejection side. He then let the 1911 fall onto the floorboard (I heard it hit) and raised both his hands out the door and he came out.

After the car was cleared, I went to get the 1911 and was amazed to see the slide stop was on the ragged edge of falling out. It was likely thin on the barrel link/lug. Hell, it might have fired one more time or whatever was left in the mag. I don't recall what brand other than it was beat up.

[RJ]

...I need to get some treatment (Cold Blue?) so it matches the slide, but it doesn’t look too bad as it is.



Just to finish this out, my Grobet USA 6" cut 4 file arrived, so for my second attempt, I used the file on the Wilson Combat Bullet Proof slide stop I'd bought. It took about 30 minutes of steady filing, stopping to check the fit from time to time. After I got it close, I rounded the pin free hand, just gave it enough of a bevel to allow it to insert easily into the frame.

I blued the pin ends of both parts with some Birchwood Casey Presto Mag. I inserted the WC BP slide stop because it seems a bit more robust than the factory SA part, and it has the pre-filed logman / idiot scratch prevention divot where the plunger tube sits, making assembly easier.

I am pretty happy with the end result; the blued color, even with just the one application, seems to match the frame tolerably well. (*)

98006

(* This was my first exposure to using Gun Blue. It was pretty interesting to learn how this stuff works. I felt like an Alchemist. :cool: )

[45dotACP]

That looks outstanding Rich

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[DDTSGM]

I chamfered my frame a little to make it a tab bit easier to remove the slide stop (sorry for the bad photo):

98100

[SW CQB 45]

The ETM-V Vickers mags also have the bump in the follower...I have a bunch of the HD/+P mags, in both 7 and 8 round formats, but for 8 rounders I'm only going to buy the ETM-V Vickers with the bumps in the followers from now on. I'll keep the rest around for practice and other uses but I'll eventually replace the 8 rounders with the Vickers mags. The 7 rounders I'll keep as-is simply because they're shorter and stick out less..

Howdy Sir,

I was doing a search on the Vickers Duty mag and came across your post from well back.

I am scheduled to attend a one-day Vickers 1911 Operators Course (Feb 2023) and have always wanted to try these mags.

They are on sale right now but wanted to check in with you on your experience with the WC Vickers Duty Magazines in .45 ACP?

anyone else with experience with these mags in .45 only can chime in too.

TIA

[dsa]

Howdy Sir,

I was doing a search on the Vickers Duty mag and came across your post from well back.

I am scheduled to attend a one-day Vickers 1911 Operators Course (Feb 2023) and have always wanted to try these mags.

They are on sale right now but wanted to check in with you on your experience with the WC Vickers Duty Magazines in .45 ACP?

anyone else with experience with these mags in .45 only can chime in too.

TIA

They are stout, overbuilt is a better description. Mags are a consumable item, the tubes on the Vickers duty mags have a lifetime warranty. The flat wire spring is rated for the life of the tube. Replace followers on an annual basis for a high volume shooter and you are good to go. I reload like a gorilla; I've had problems with the feed lips spreading on every .45 mag out there. I heard about the Wilson Combat warranty on these mags and called to verify and they confirmed. So far I have not needed to test the warranty policy. FWIW I was averaging 25k/year of .45 when I bought these mags (I have 16 of them). I have not been shooting as much the past 18 months.

[Evil_Ed]

Howdy Sir,

I was doing a search on the Vickers Duty mag and came across your post from well back.

I am scheduled to attend a one-day Vickers 1911 Operators Course (Feb 2023) and have always wanted to try these mags.

They are on sale right now but wanted to check in with you on your experience with the WC Vickers Duty Magazines in .45 ACP?

anyone else with experience with these mags in .45 only can chime in too.

TIA

I haven't had a chance to put much more than maybe 100 rounds through each of the mags; the last year or two my shooting has come down a bit as ammo's gotten more expensive and I've run out of time...

If I were told I needed to stock up on 8 round mags and could expect to have to rely on them for some time by themselves without replacements or parts, I'd stock up on the ETM-Vs in 45acp and not even think twice or wonder "what if". I'm not LE or Military; I don't have near the trigger time or experience as most of the posters here do on square or other types of ranges...but speaking for me, as a 1911 student who's fingered just about every type of mag I could find for one...it's one of the few I'd spend my money on and if one malfunctioned, I'd actually try to fix it or contact WC about it, vs just throwing it away and chalking it up to "well, it was a cheap crappy mag, who cares". These things are nice, they work, leaving one loaded for 12+ months then emptying it at the range; it's just as stiff to reload as it was on day one. I've moved away from using a 1911 as a suppressor platform, but it's also one of the few mags I'd be comfortable with in that scenario, too.

[SW CQB 45]

thanks for the info. Good enough for me.

[03RN]

Vickers are my EDC magazine

[DDTSGM]

Vickers are my EDC magazine

They are almost as expensive as his books.

[JTQ]

I think of the Vickers mags as mags for folks that have a specific need for a mag to perform in some special circumstances. You probably know if you need a mag for those special circumstances. For my uses, there are more economical options in the Wilson mag line-up that fit my needs.

[TC215]

thanks for the info. Good enough for me.

I used the Vickers mags at my old department where I was still running a 1911 on duty. They are built like a tank.

If you want to try one out before you spend the money on them, I will send you one to borrow.

[Gary1911A1]

The Vickers .45ACP Magazines with the steel basepads are on sale: https://shopwilsoncombat.com/MAGAZINE-1911-ETM-VICKERS-DUTY-45-ACP-FULL-SIZE-8-ROUND-STEEL-BASE-PAD/productinfo/800/

[SW CQB 45]

I used the Vickers mags at my old department where I was still running a 1911 on duty. They are built like a tank.

If you want to try one out before you spend the money on them, I will send you one to borrow.

thanks for the offer.

I bit the bullet yesterday and bought 5. I will sell some stuff to help cover the cost.

I figure if these mags are HD and warrantied, I am going to drive the hell out of them.

45 acp only-
Some years ago, WC mags put a bad taste in my mouth. 47D's would not work reliably in my MCOP. Thats when I used CMC PM exclusively and had zero issues.

When I tried WC ETMs about a year ago, that changed my mind. I have been using them, along with old CMC and some Checkmates (and 5 ACT mags that came with my ACW)

I have high hopes for the Vickers mags.

I am planning on attending a one-day Vickers 1911 Operators Course in Feb 2023. I wish it was 2 days but it's about a 1.5-hour drive from me.... I already paid the course fee.

thanks again for the offer

[03RN]

I think of the Vickers mags as mags for folks that have a specific need for a mag to perform in some special circumstances. You probably know if you need a mag for those special circumstances. For my uses, there are more economical options in the Wilson mag line-up that fit my needs.

I actually think it's the exact opposite. They're not for special circumstances. They're for all circumstances.

[JTQ]

45 acp only-
Some years ago, WC mags put a bad taste in my mouth. 47D's would not work reliably in my MCOP.
The 47D is a 7 round tube length with 8 rounds stuffed in the tube. It uses a lesser follower and spring than the same length 7 round 47.

In addition, regarding Springfield 1911's there is this from the Wilson FAQ page https://www.wilsoncombat.com/handgun-faqs/


Even though we use the strongest magazine springs in the industry, some pistols have such excessive tolerances in the magazine well–slidestop internal lobe area that some magazines will not reliably lock back on empty even when new. This is a known problem with some Springfield Armory pistols. You may need to have a gunsmith replace, polish or fit your slide stop for proper function. This may also be an indication that your springs need replacing.

[SW CQB 45]

The 47D is a 7 round tube length with 8 rounds stuffed in the tube. It uses a lesser follower and spring than the same length 7 round 47.

In addition, regarding Springfield 1911's there is this from the Wilson FAQ page https://www.wilsoncombat.com/handgun-faqs/

Since my MCOP was/is my main carry, I did not mention that the 47D became unreliable in a Colt that I sent to Yost in 2005 where they installed a Kart barrel and other stuff to include tighten it up.

I recall reading that article and came to the conclusion my main carry and a competition piece don't work with WC mags (I never paid any mind that 7 round tubes with 8 rounds stuffed in them was likely the culprit).

I just veered away completely (maybe 20+ years) till a co-worker and I did some trading, and I got some ETMs. They sat for a good while (HA!) till I decided to try them, and they have been flawless ever since.

[JohnK]

I actually think it's the exact opposite. They're not for special circumstances. They're for all circumstances.

I would agree but to the point of shouldn't all of the magazines Wilson sells be for all circumstances yet it is widely known that some don't work for long-term and others are considered gold-standard by some heavy hitters in the industry. JB feels the 47 is the gold standard, uber-reliable IIRC.


Since my MCOP was/is my main carry, I did not mention that the 47D became unreliable in a Colt that I sent to Yost in 2005 where they installed a Kart barrel and other stuff to include tighten it up.

I recall reading that article and came to the conclusion my main carry and a competition piece don't work with WC mags (I never paid any mind that 7 round tubes with 8 rounds stuffed in them was likely the culprit).

I just veered away completely (maybe 20+ years) till a co-worker and I did some trading, and I got some ETMs. They sat for a good while (HA!) till I decided to try them, and they have been flawless ever since.

It's kind of funny- I have had extremely good luck with ETMs and not great experiences with the CMC. I understand if the vickers are now the gold standard for 8 rounds but I just don't like his name written on all of "my" stuff! ;) And I am not a big fan of those huge basepads protruding as far out of the mag chute as they do.

With that said, I am using them with my 9mm to avoid any growing pains with that pistol. Also, I don't think the ETM HD/+P should be overlooked. I have been using 3 exclusively for over 3 years now without a single hiccup or issue. In fact, it is my intention to hit the range this week and fire out all of the ammo to confirm but I do it every 6ish months or so and haven't had a single issue.

[JTQ]

...(I never paid any mind that 7 round tubes with 8 rounds stuffed in them was likely the culprit).

... and I got some ETMs. ... they have been flawless ever since.

While you probably know the following, for those that don't...

The ETM's have a longer tube than the full size 7/8 round 47 Series. The ETM's were designed as 8 rounders and not converted 7 rounders like the 47D. Any version of the ETM mag should be an improvement over a 47D.

The Vickers mags are more sand/debris resistant than a standard ETM. However, generically, there is a lot of surface area on a Wilson polymer follower that could be sand impeded, while the Devel/Shooting Star follower in the CMC mags, has very little surface area to be impeded by debris within the tube.

[JohnO]

I subscribed to Hilton Yam's advice years ago and never looked back. CMC Power Mags! Never had a feeding issue. Occasionally on my older range mags I will get a failure of the slide to lock back.

[SW CQB 45]

JohnK, when I get my mags, I will evaluate the base plates. They were out of stock with the thinner aluminum base pads. I too don't care for the width, but I will give them a try first.


my only little complaint with the CMC is follower design and it's the point.

When empty, the follower tip moves fwd out of the magazine and acts as a center punch. Over time (we are talking years), I am ready to drill.

https://i.imgur.com/y0Yhs3wh.jpg

I tried the Power Mag Plus which has a rounded front follower and some of the followers were slipping past the slide stop lug with no engagement.

[JTQ]

The McCormick RPM gives a longer tube than the PowerMag or PowerMag+, it's much like the difference between the 47 Series and ETM Series in the Wilson line-up, and has a follower with the more rounded tip and a slightly longer back leg, that should show less tipping than the standard Devel/Shooting Star follower, though it is still a Devel follower family member.

CMC RPM https://cmproducts.com/railed-power-mag-full-size-1911-8-round-45-acp-stainless-magazine.html

They also have the wider/flared bumper pad that is common on most extended tube 8 rounders.

[SW CQB 45]

The McCormick RPM gives a longer tube than the PowerMag or PowerMag+, it's much like the difference between the 47 Series and ETM Series in the Wilson line-up, and has a follower with the more rounded tip and a slightly longer back leg, that should show less tipping than the standard Devel/Shooting Star follower, though it is still a Devel follower family member.

CMC RPM https://cmproducts.com/railed-power-mag-full-size-1911-8-round-45-acp-stainless-magazine.html

They also have the wider/flared bumper pad that is common on most extended tube 8 rounders.

I have one 8 rounder which has been reliable, and I have 3-4 10 rounders (CMC RPM) but have not put enough time behind them to make an opinion.

My MCOP always had an issue with first round feed issues from slide locked to the rear and using slide release method and WC and original CMC 10 rounders.

I recently discovered that my MCOP had a very short frame feed ramp which might have been the culprit with the 10 rounders.

I watched a Hilton video (I am a Patreon member) on lengthening the feed ramp. I was very cautious and could have gone more, but I need to test out my 10 rounder RPMs.

[JTQ]

My MCOP always had an issue with first round feed issues from slide locked to the rear and using slide release method and WC and original CMC 10 rounders.

I'd think I'd have already linked this article, but I'm too lazy to search the thread, so if it's already here, here it is again.

Single column nose dive issues https://americanhandgunner.com/gear/nosedive-and-feed-angle-in-the-1911-45-acp/

[Trooper224]

If you're in need of some extra grip on your front strap, this might be an option worth looking at.

I've become spoiled by the front strap checkering on my DW Valor and really found the lack of it on the CZ1911A1, well, lacking. I didn't want to go to the expense of real checkering and an associated refinish and skate board tape is too ghetto for me. I decided to give this ten dollar fix by Wilson Combat a try. So far it's been staying put and isn't too egregious aesthetically.

(Not my image)

98501

[Shorikid]

On the magazine front, I will offer up the ugly cousin of 8 rounders. Mec Gar has 8 rnd mags that I've used for years. The skirted follower doesn't give any issues jumping forward and dragging on the frame or feed ramp. Drop free and consistently lock the gun back. No issues with feed lip changes, polymer base pads take a beating.

Sent from my SM-A536U1 using Tapatalk

[Shorikid]

This thread has had me thinking about the basic "gunsmithing" skills a 1911 owner should have. The things you should be able to do if you are going to carry a 1911 on the regular and xant have 3 guns in rotation to Niggthawk or Wilson.

Profile, fit, and tension an extractor. -honestly this is likely the cause of more than 50% of 1911 feed issues.

Fit an firing pin stop. - this is so related to your extractor, with clocking issues, that you need to know how to handle it.

Fit a barrel bushing - this can dramatically improve a guns accuracy, resolve barrel springing issues.

Fit and adjust a magazine release - adjust the release to not trap magazines, fitting for extended releases, and possibly adjust magazine height in the frame.

If you can do these things, those are going to fix most problems. Or improve a stock pistol. And understanding how to do that short list of things can keep you from being frustrated and having a pistol that won't work.

Sent from my SM-A536U1 using Tapatalk

[HeavyDuty]

If you're in need of some extra grip on your front strap, this might be an option worth looking at.

I've become spoiled by the front strap checkering on my DW Valor and really found the lack of it on the CZ1911A1, well, lacking. I didn't want to go to the expense of real checkering and an associated refinish and skate board tape is too ghetto for me. I decided to give this ten dollar fix by Wilson Combat a try. So far it's been staying put and isn't too egregious aesthetically.

(Not my image)

98501

I’ve been using one of those for 30+ years now. It does the trick.

[TOTS]

On the magazine front, I will offer up the ugly cousin of 8 rounders. Mec Gar has 8 rnd mags that I've used for years. The skirted follower doesn't give any issues jumping forward and dragging on the frame or feed ramp. Drop free and consistently lock the gun back. No issues with feed lip changes, polymer base pads take a beating.

Sent from my SM-A536U1 using Tapatalk
I will stipulate that they’ll be fine as long as you get the stainless ones. I got two of the blued ones which immediately developed large potato chip flakes of rust. I sent them back to customer service which refunded the money. I used that to buy WC mags which are still working well bb

[03RN]

If you're in need of some extra grip on your front strap, this might be an option worth looking at.

I've become spoiled by the front strap checkering on my DW Valor and really found the lack of it on the CZ1911A1, well, lacking. I didn't want to go to the expense of real checkering and an associated refinish and skate board tape is too ghetto for me. I decided to give this ten dollar fix by Wilson Combat a try. So far it's been staying put and isn't too egregious aesthetically.

(Not my image)

98501

If anyone wants one let me know. Just pay shipping and you can have mine. I could not get it to stay put.

[M1Garand]

If anyone wants one let me know. Just pay shipping and you can have mine. I could not get it to stay put.

Little bit of Permatex RVT and mine has not moved in years

[JRV]

Fun little update from the recent P&S Modcast for folks looking for base guns to build out: Joe Chambers stated that all recent examples of RIA 1911s have come across his table had frame and small part dimensions that were more correct (fitted to proper 1911 specs) than the Turkish imports, BULs, and recent Springfields that have come across his table.

Presumably, that means the RIA frames and slides might have fewer "gremlins" if built out with proper parts and following a good manual.

[Trooper224]

Little bit of Permatex RVT and mine has not moved in years

I used Gorilla Glue on mine. I glued the side tabs to the underside of the grip panels, so nothing's glued directly to the frame.

[Trooper224]

Fun little update from the recent P&S Modcast for folks looking for base guns to build out: Joe Chambers stated that all recent examples of RIA 1911s have come across his table had frame and small part dimensions that were more correct (fitted to proper 1911 specs) than the Turkish imports, BULs, and recent Springfields that have come across his table.

Presumably, that means the RIA frames and slides might have fewer "gremlins" if built out with proper parts and following a good manual.

That's disappointing to hear about Springfield. I always liked them, because when it came time for a rebuild all the key points were typically in spec.

[SW CQB 45]

I shot a match this past weekend and when cleaning my MCOP, I noticed it had a lot of grit that made its way to the interior.... I took it all the way down to clean.

I had a wild hair moment and took a chance on the front strap that has bothered me for years.

While I needed to go a little more, I don't have the right tools (limited to files, sandpaper and DREMEL) and I never ordered the tool to make sure I had ample thickness. So, I got scared and stop short for now.

I used some automotive gray high heat primer to cover the exposed metal and heat treated the paint with a heat gun. I don't know how oil resistant the primer will be... but just looking to keep it from rusting.

https://i.imgur.com/tX4hgeth.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/a6M7DOIh.jpg

on another note, I bought 5 Vickers mags with steel base plates. I don't care for the look of the tapered base plates, but I like the added grip they offered as the older I got, everything seems slippery to me.

When I first got these mags, they would not seat w/o slamming them home. I ran into the same issue with ETMs and aluminum base plates. I trimmed the ETM aluminum base plates, and they work great. I removed about .005" from the steel Vickers plate (they are hard) which got them to seat empty. Put eight rounds and some required extra effort to seat. I likely need to trim more. Also, 7 rounds load easy, #8.... did not. Vulgarity helped with pushing it home, but they functioned well. I am not sure if my frame is out of spec, or it's just a Wilson Combat thing with clearance and base plates with stops. I took the mags apart to inspect and clean out any grit, those springs are beefy.

[Mark D]

Fun little update from the recent P&S Modcast for folks looking for base guns to build out: Joe Chambers stated that all recent examples of RIA 1911s have come across his table had frame and small part dimensions that were more correct (fitted to proper 1911 specs) than the Turkish imports, BULs, and recent Springfields that have come across his table.

Presumably, that means the RIA frames and slides might have fewer "gremlins" if built out with proper parts and following a good manual.

On Joe's Patreon page, 1911 University, he speaks quite highly of the RIA guns he's measured, with the (large) caveat that they're very inexpensive pistols. Fairly recently he measured a Springfield Mil-Spec, and said it would be quite a good base gun for a custom build. The higher-end Springfields haven't fared very well in his reviews. He's generally complementary about the Dan Wessons, and most of the Stacatto P series.

[JRV]

On Joe's Patreon page, 1911 University, he speaks quite highly of the RIA guns he's measured, with the (large) caveat that they're very inexpensive pistols. Fairly recently he measured a Springfield Mil-Spec, and said it would be quite a good base gun for a custom build. The higher-end Springfields haven't fared very well in his reviews. He's generally complementary about the Dan Wessons, and most of the Stacatto P series.

Joe commented on the Dan Wessons on the podcast, lamenting that they used to be the best 1911 you could buy for $1,100-1,200… until Dan Wesson realized that point and put that pricing in the rear view mirror.

[JohnK]

I shot a match this past weekend and when cleaning my MCOP, I noticed it had a lot of grit that made its way to the interior.... I took it all the way down to clean.

I had a wild hair moment and took a chance on the front strap that has bothered me for years.

While I needed to go a little more, I don't have the right tools (limited to files, sandpaper and DREMEL) and I never ordered the tool to make sure I had ample thickness. So, I got scared and stop short for now.

I used some automotive gray high heat primer to cover the exposed metal and heat treated the paint with a heat gun. I don't know how oil resistant the primer will be... but just looking to keep it from rusting.

https://i.imgur.com/tX4hgeth.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/a6M7DOIh.jpg

on another note, I bought 5 Vickers mags with steel base plates. I don't care for the look of the tapered base plates, but I like the added grip they offered as the older I got, everything seems slippery to me.

When I first got these mags, they would not seat w/o slamming them home. I ran into the same issue with ETMs and aluminum base plates. I trimmed the ETM aluminum base plates, and they work great. I removed about .005" from the steel Vickers plate (they are hard) which got them to seat empty. Put eight rounds and some required extra effort to seat. I likely need to trim more. Also, 7 rounds load easy, #8.... did not. Vulgarity helped with pushing it home, but they functioned well. I am not sure if my frame is out of spec, or it's just a Wilson Combat thing with clearance and base plates with stops. I took the mags apart to inspect and clean out any grit, those springs are beefy.

I truly believe it is a WC thing. I have the same issue across all of my 1911s, whether in .45 acp or 9mm. I wouldn't think that all I have are out of spec, including my Wilson CQB. Vulgarity helps.

[SW CQB 45]

Vulgarity helps.

hahahahah, EVERYTIME!!!!!

[Trooper224]

I used Gorilla Glue on mine. I glued the side tabs to the underside of the grip panels, so nothing's glued directly to the frame.

Well, the Gorilla Glue was a fail. Upon removing the part, I finally noted a couple of slits in the sheet metal and bent the part around the frame as obviously intended. That's a fail by my powers of observation, but including some instructions would have been nice. If the front strap on your pistol is anything other than exact spec, like an older Springfield with a more squared front strap, this will not work.

[Robinson]

I've come to like the front strap cover offered by Talon Grips for my 1911s without checkering. Easy to apply and stays put if you heat it during application. I prefer the PRO version which is like a combination of the rubber and the granular in one.