Booker's plan for gun control

[Glenn E. Meyer]

https://medium.com/@corybooker/corys-plan-to-end-the-gun-violence-epidemic-ab377d9fb112

Pretty draconian. For the Orange 4D chess playing genius fans, who set this precedent:


Finally, beginning on Day One in office, Cory will take executive action to build on ongoing efforts and take concrete steps forward — closing dangerous loopholes in gun sales, cracking down on unscrupulous dealers and gun manufacturers, and investing in communities impacted by gun violence.

Given that Congress is lost on gun positive issues (now how did that happen?), the only hope is the dream that Kavanaugh and Gorsuch will lead the Court to definitively wipe out gun control measures in the states, and if Federal laws or orders are passed, void them. Personally, I don't see that happening with Roberts. At best, we might get a poison bill as was embedded in Heller.

The NRA isn't to be feared now - wonder why.

[Bart Carter]

Isn't closing dangerous loopholes in gun sales his current job? How many bills has he introduced that does that?

[NETim]

Are there any Dem presidential candidates remotely friendly to the 2A and law abiding gun owners??

[Tom Duffy]

From the article:
"Cory will work to close this loophole in federal oversight and allow the Consumer Product Safety Commission to ensure gun safety by making safety warnings and issuing recalls for faulty firearms."

On the plus side, Sig would be held accountable. :)
The other plus side is that Cory is never going to get elected.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

No, because gun control is a litmus test for purity as is banning abortion for Republicans.

Any reasonable conversation on the issues as been driven to extreme bans due to the righteous wrath of extremists in the primary system.

Surprisingly, Bernie was seen as weak on gun control during his debates with Hillary and called a gun nut. For our paradigm he was a weak pro gun candidate as he didn't support some antigun measures in his role as VT senator. On the national stage, now he is step with the rest. The same happened with Kristin Gillibrand, seemingly pro gun as an up state NY rep, antigunner when told to act that way as Senator.

Crotch control and gun control are the mantras of party purity nowadays.

[joshs]

The NRA isn't to be feared now

Hillary thought so too . . .

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Hillary beat Hillary. I know the NRA put a lot of money into the campaign and must claim significant variance proportion in Donald's win but that's probably not the deciding factor. Anyway, what did the money get you?

1. Financial and scandal distress
2. Bump stock ban and the precedent of executive action let out of the bottle
3. The Congress fleeing from any positive gun legislation the first chance they got.

Gorsuch and Kavanaugh - claimed as a victory with no results yet, and more likely a prize to the anti-abortion/anti-gay rights folks as to the gun folks.

Hillary lost because of ignoring of economic needs of some of fly-over country. The gun vote was already in the bag for Trump. It certainly didn't turn the popular vote count.

[LorenzoS]

Given that Congress is lost on gun positive issues (now how did that happen?), the only hope is the dream that Kavanaugh and Gorsuch will lead the Court to definitively wipe out gun control measures in the states, and if Federal laws or orders are passed, void them. Personally, I don't see that happening with Roberts. At best, we might get a poison bill as was embedded in Heller.

We really need a Supreme Court decision applying strict scrutiny to the 2nd Amendment. This is the only way to protect this right from death by a thousand "reasonable restriction" cuts.

Perhaps the NYC gun license case will deliver on this.

[Zincwarrior]

Hillary thought so too . . .

In a future time, making the NRA an operating arm of the Republican Party might not be viewed as having been a good idea. :rolleyes:

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Scrutiny is all well and good. It's a trip to the weeds for the legal folks. What is needed is a clear decision that says that we are can possess the small arms (sorry, some want atom bombs at home, not going to happen) equal to that of the infantry person of today. Scrutiny folks seem to think that such a decision process will be positive. Who says? The anti-folks will scrutinize your guns away.

Cut to the chase, SCOTUS. Federal AWB, mag limits are unconstitutional. Similar state bans are too. State laws that stand in the way of law abiding and mentally competent (sidebar on deciding this) purchasing and carry firearms need to go. Any permits or licenses must be granted quickly (if we have such) and not with onerous bureaucratic delays.

Anyway, the opportunity for real legislative progress was frittered away for various political, venial (money raising needs to keep the threat alive) and personality flaws.

Here's a clue - the progun politicians at the highest level say they will 'defend' the 2nd Amend. Ever hear a major speech saying they will 'expand' the 2nd Amend. rights? Nope. Too busy looking for the Socialist wave to hit the beaches and sign up for the wine club.

We do get some progress at the state levels in already very progun states. The anti and mixed states will roll back gun rights after each rampage horror show.

The inability to craft a progun message for those outside the choir is a major problem.

[joshs]

Hillary beat Hillary. I know the NRA put a lot of money into the campaign and must claim significant variance proportion in Donald's win but that's probably not the deciding factor. Anyway, what did the money get you?

We have pretty good data that shows how NRA members played an outsized role in delivering some important states in 16.

SCOTUS not flipping on the core issue of the Second Amendment being an individual right was worth what we spent and more. Had Hillary won, the Court would be at least 5-4 (and maybe 6-3) against individual gun ownership being a right. We also have 100 lower court judges and counting. Instead, we now have a Court that the other side is scared to take cases to. D.C. being shall-issue was the first direct result. There will be more.

I don't understand your repeated point about Trump creating new precedent for executive action. Multiple administrations have classified things as machine guns. The Bush 43 admin even classified a device and then reclassified it without going through any of the requirements of the Administrative Procedures Act. That reclassification was upheld by the 11th Circuit. We don't agree with the administration's position on bump stocks (I even wrote these comments that make that very clear https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=ATF-2018-0002-87401). You also seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about whether or not a particular executive action is legal having an effect on some other type of administrative action. One type of executive action doesn't justify another. Obama also tried to take executive action on various gun sale loopholes, but his admin discovered that FOPA closely constrains available administrative action when it comes to defining who is "engaged in the business" of being a firearms dealer. Three years of effort led to the creation of this booklet: https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download, which is about all that they can do on limiting gun sales without Congressional action.

I know you already expressed that the ATT being unsigned was not a big deal, I disagree (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20190503/what-unsigning-the-arms-trade-treaty-means-for-american-gun-owners). But, I think this is also the beginning of the administration looking for positive things it can do for gun owners, not the end.

No one in Congress fled from positive gun legislation, we simply didn't have the votes in the Senate to get to 60.

[Hambo]

Are there any Dem presidential candidates remotely friendly to the 2A and law abiding gun owners??

No, but choose Republicans in primaries very carefully because a lot of them aren't any better. My Republican representative, a combat wounded vet, immediately proposed AWB after Parkland. When I WTF'ed him on it, he said he wants to protect kids and that we don't need guns like he carried in war. Now that he's been re-elected once, we're going to be stuck with him until he makes a Senate run.

[joshs]

Here's a clue - the progun politicians at the highest level say they will 'defend' the 2nd Amend. Ever hear a major speech saying they will 'expand' the 2nd Amend. rights? Nope.

That's because you can't legally expand the protection of a constitutional amendment without going through the process of amending the constitution.

[blues]

No, but choose Republicans in primaries very carefully because a lot of them aren't any better. My Republican representative, a combat wounded vet, immediately proposed AWB after Parkland. When I WTF'ed him on it, he said he wants to protect kids and that we don't need guns like he carried in war. Now that he's been re-elected once, we're going to be stuck with him until he makes a Senate run.

That guy is a complete jackass and nincompoop. Every time I see him on TV I can't but shake my head at his antics.

[NETim]

No, but choose Republicans in primaries very carefully because a lot of them aren't any better. My Republican representative, a combat wounded vet, immediately proposed AWB after Parkland. When I WTF'ed him on it, he said he wants to protect kids and that we don't need guns like he carried in war. Now that he's been re-elected once, we're going to be stuck with him until he makes a Senate run.

That's very true. I would never write a blank check to the GOP. However, I'm simply pointing out that out of the hundreds of folks lining up on the Dem side for a run for the WH, not one appears to be gun friendly.

The folks who do things right don't matter to the current version of the Democratic Party.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Josh, No, you miss the point. The rights have been curtailed and cut back. Expanding them might be better expressed as restoring them.

An example, the HPA - the right was restricted and the act was to 'expand' it. However, Congress fled from that bill as soon as it could. The state AWBs limit the right. The SAGA act which went nowhere would have restored that curtailed right. So is that an expansion?

When the President speaks to the NRA, does he say that he will with vigor, clearly oppose the state bans? For 30 million, he should, ya think? No, just BS platitudes.

The model is similar to the Civil Rights Acts which restored/expanded the right to vote for oppressed folks.

[OlongJohnson]

From the article:
"Cory will work to close this loophole in federal oversight and allow the Consumer Product Safety Commission to ensure gun safety by making safety warnings and issuing recalls for faulty firearms."

On the plus side, Sig would be held accountable. :)

Government mandated recalls would be worse than the repeal of PLCAA.

California's "roster" is already based on the assertion that any handgun not on it is "dangerous." Kamala Harris exercised executive authority as AG of the state to declare that any handgun not including microstamping technology could not be approved for listing on the roster. Therefore, by gun banner logic, any firearm not incorporating microstamping technology is dangerous. It's a small jump to say recall and fix them or destroy them. All of them.

[joshs]

Government mandated recalls would be worse than the repeal of PLCAA.

Fortunately, there's an express limitation of CPSC's jurisdiction for firearms and ammunition.

[OlongJohnson]

My point is that it's on their radar to go after that, just like going after the PLCAA, and that would be a very bad thing if they succeed. Both would require legislation.

[joshs]

My point is that it's on their radar to go after that, just like going after the PLCAA, and that would be a very bad thing if they succeed. Both would require legislation.

No doubt. I'm not sure that Booker knows about the limitation on CPSC authority. He might think it's something that he could actually do with executive action.

[OlongJohnson]

Government mandated recalls would be worse than the repeal of PLCAA.

California's "roster" is already based on the assertion that any handgun not on it is "dangerous." Kamala Harris exercised executive authority as AG of the state to declare that any handgun not including microstamping technology could not be approved for listing on the roster. Therefore, by gun banner logic, any firearm not incorporating microstamping technology is dangerous. It's a small jump to say recall and fix them or destroy them. All of them.

Another point is that they play the long game. They don't need to confiscate the "dangerous" firearms. They just need to make it illegal to transfer them, including by inheritance. This is what CA has already done with registered "assault weapons." Just make it so a recalled firearm that hasn't been "repaired" can't be transferred by an FFL, can't be worked on by a gunsmith, can't be inherited. In a generation, they're all gone.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

For the question of what Democrats have positive views on gun rights, here's a piece on Bernie, the gun rights supporter!

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/sanders-gun-votes-are-again-potential-liability-among-democratic-base-n999326

So what would you do if the Socialist Wave rider was sporting an AR-15! I might think the best outcome for gun rights with a Bernie presidency, is that he wouldn't be a zealot on pushing gun control. He might go after his main focus of economic issues.

It is amusing to see the circular firing squad want to take him out as being soft on guns. If Bernie had gotten the nomination and was reasonable on gun rights, the Donald would be spending his time in Trump tower now. Alternate universe.

[Darth_Uno]

For the question of what Democrats have positive views on gun rights, here's a piece on Bernie, the gun rights supporter!

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/sanders-gun-votes-are-again-potential-liability-among-democratic-base-n999326

So what would you do if the Socialist Wave rider was sporting an AR-15! I might think the best outcome for gun rights with a Bernie presidency, is that he wouldn't be a zealot on pushing gun control. He might go after his main focus of economic issues.

It is amusing to see the circular firing squad want to take him out as being soft on guns. If Bernie had gotten the nomination and was reasonable on gun rights, the Donald would be spending his time in Trump tower now. Alternate universe.

Bernie might F over every single business, but I don't thing guns are even on his radar. No doubt he'd cave to party pressure, but he's not going on the hunt.

[OlongJohnson]

I remember him defending PLCAA in debate against Hillary. Can only guess whether he would return to his apparently real principles on that topic, or stick with the new party line.

[NETim]

For the question of what Democrats have positive views on gun rights, here's a piece on Bernie, the gun rights supporter!

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/sanders-gun-votes-are-again-potential-liability-among-democratic-base-n999326

So what would you do if the Socialist Wave rider was sporting an AR-15! I might think the best outcome for gun rights with a Bernie presidency, is that he wouldn't be a zealot on pushing gun control. He might go after his main focus of economic issues.

It is amusing to see the circular firing squad want to take him out as being soft on guns. If Bernie had gotten the nomination and was reasonable on gun rights, the Donald would be spending his time in Trump tower now. Alternate universe.

From the article:

The Sanders campaign did not dispute Phillips’ account of the phone call. “Bernie has campaigned tirelessly for common sense gun safety legislation,” the Sanders campaign said in a statement to NBC, noting his co-sponsorship of bills including bans on assault weapons and 3D-printed guns and restricting high-capacity magazines.

The man isn't what I consider 2A friendly.

Also, he's a damn Socialist and has never worked a day in his life.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Has any career politician worked a day in their lives that would be considered honest work?

Anyway, the article was fun as it demonstrated that Bernie gets attacked as being progun. Guess he fits in with Bush, Romney, Dole and Trump for supporting an AWB.

If a socialist was a full on supporter of the 2nd Amend. vs. a conservative who described ARs as evil items to be banned along with strict Red Flag laws that would take guns before due process plus using executive power to ban and confiscate existing accessories, what would one do?

[Greg]

From the article:

The Sanders campaign did not dispute Phillips’ account of the phone call. “Bernie has campaigned tirelessly for common sense gun safety legislation,” the Sanders campaign said in a statement to NBC, noting his co-sponsorship of bills including bans on assault weapons and 3D-printed guns and restricting high-capacity magazines.

The man isn't what I consider 2A friendly.

Also, he's a damn Socialist and has never worked a day in his life.

When you can get thrown out of a hippy commune for being too lazy, you are a world class slacker.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Another point in his favor. Executive time and tweeting vs. being a hippie commune slacker.

What a world!

[Edster]

https://medium.com/@corybooker/corys-plan-to-end-the-gun-violence-epidemic-ab377d9fb112

For the Orange 4D chess playing genius fans, who set this precedent:



Trump's executive action on the border wall was directing funds in the enforcement of existing law.

If Booker wanted to direct funds to better enforce existing gun laws, that would be following precedent.

Creating new law through executive action is not the same thing.

[Nephrology]

Are there any Dem presidential candidates remotely friendly to the 2A and law abiding gun owners??

Given that goddam everyone is running for the DNC primary, I would never say never.

In practice, I think that the struggle to appeal to middle ground + signal to vocal progressive arm of the democratic party makes anything resembling sensibility on 2A questions very unlikely. Wide swaths of GOP voters/representatives are ambivalent at best about the 2nd amendment, so it's easy points to score for primary hopefuls.

I suspect packed Dem field leads to an embarrassing "circular firing squad" as former Pres. Obama described it. Bernie has best chance to beat Trump but he faces uphill battle against Biden, candidates of color (eg Kamala Harris). I think unless literally Jesus Christ himself announces he is running, DNC primary will implode on itself and Trump will be around (for better and for worse) for another 4 yr.

[JAD]

No fucking way is JC a democrat. Don’t you blaspheme in here.

[OlongJohnson]

With his "render unto Ceasar" line, his is the only faith-based ideology that embeds a wall of separation between church and state; it inherently promotes an understanding that the two are and must be kept separate.

[Darth_Uno]

The only two systems ever set up by God Himself are a theocracy and then a monarchy. And he did warn that you won’t like the monarchy.

Interestingly enough, only certain people tithed (were taxed, in effect) under the priesthood.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

To think that universe creating deities, get down into the weeds of Earth politics is the height of human hubris. Every time I see someone spout that a deity personally is watching them and saving them, while letting some other poor soul die horribly, I cringe.

Babies burn and the Deity intervened in your Little League game. Also, if the Deity intervened in an election, as a non-citizen, we would have to ask Mueller to investigate.

The problem of theodicy has had greater minds deal with it than the current set of phony faith-spouting politicians.

[Tom Duffy]

To think that universe creating deities, get down into the weeds of Earth politics is the height of human hubris. Every time I see someone spout that a deity personally is watching them and saving them, while letting some other poor soul die horribly, I cringe.

Babies burn and the Deity intervened in your Little League game. Also, if the Deity intervened in an election, as a non-citizen, we would have to ask Mueller to investigate.

The problem of theodicy has had greater minds deal with it than the current set of phony faith-spouting politicians.

"I used to think that prayer changes things. Now I know that prayer changes us and we change things."
-Mother Teresa

[JAD]

Now St. Teresa of Calcutta if you please.

Don’t be fooled into thinking St. Teresa didn’t believe in the efficacy of petitionary prayer. That’s a very deep subject for a sound bite.

[Trukinjp13]

The Bern is Socialism. Which is anti gun. Maybe he just knows to not throw the dumbass gun owners under the bus before he gets elected. He knows their votes will help him. This way he gets them to drive the buses themselves. Right into the pit where he buries them and takes everything they have.

Bernie is WHITE PRIVILEGE, if that is still a thing.


Booker is just a moron playing moron games. He is no threat as far as I am concerned. Just another Democrat mouthpiece.


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