Glock Trigger Options 2019 (Maybe It Will Fix My Left-Shooting)

[powell556]

I've read through several threads on here and elsewhere about glocks shooting left. I never noticed it before, because it doesn't show up at range range. I can shoot dead center at 3 to 5 yards. And in the past, I lacked the skill to notice at distance because my groups were so large at 15 to 25 yards that it wasn't noticable.

Now that I've improved my skills, I am noticing that I can get 4" groups at 25 yards that are 10" left of the target.

Maybe it's the mechanical issue of the gun. Maybe It's the way I'm gripping the gun. Maybe it's the way I'm manipulating the trigger. Maybe it's all three. I've been working quite a bit on altering grip and trigger finger placement to no avail.

What I'd like to try is upgrading my triggers. Maybe shooting left won't be impacted by putting in nicer triggers, but regardless, I should probably consider nicer triggers. I've heard good things about Overwatch Precision and a couple others.

What I'm using now is the factory glock trigger with a NY1 trigger spring and a minus disconnect. Around 20 years ago, this is what I was told was the best trigger at the time. It was supposed to give a combined total weight of about 6 pounds (combining the 8 pounds trigger spring with the 3.5 pounds disconnect), which was the same as the factory 5.5 pound trigger but it was supposed to be less "mooshy".

I've heard people say this is stupid. Maybe it is. 20 years ago the internet was new and also there was less options for aftermarket stuff. Also, Massad Ayoob scared me into not messing with the trigger. Lately, I'm hesitant to mess with the trigger because I carry AIWB and I've heard that aftermarket triggers that reduce pretravel of the trigger may result in negating some of the safeties in the gun, which is bad for AIWB. I don't want to get into an ECQC type situation where I am kneed/kicked on my holster, or maybe just fall hard on the ground on the holster, or slammed into a car, and the holstered gun discharges because the gun isn't "drop safe" anymore due to the new trigger.

Those were my reasons in the past. I'm open to change. Should I buy an overwatch precision or other trigger? Does it include everything such as a trigger spring and disconnect or do I use the factory ones, and if so, which should I use?

I have three glocks, all of them *I* shoot left. One of them I moved the rear sight about 80% to the right and it "only" shoots about 5" left at 25 yards. I could put it all the way to the right but I feel like it's probably me at that point. The trigger may or may not help, but I think I've hit the point in skill (being about upper-beginner to intermediate-level) where I may notice improvement in shooting with a better trigger.

[alex]

Overwatch Precision and Apex are two brands that don't mess with the geometry of the bar nor safety features. They're simply an enhanced shoe with the Overwatch offering NP3 coating. They're worth a shot, try the Overwatch Poly DAT https://overwatchprecision.com/polymer-dat/ due to the lower price point. You can still use your old connector and springs with these triggers.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

T.R. Graham recommends in the video 'GUnsmithing Glock' or something along those lines... recommended moving the sights to compensate for this. He said it only appeared with right handed shooters for some reason, but a very slight bump to the right (I believe) should fix it to where you are hitting perfect.

[Jay585]

Overwatch Precision and Apex are two brands that don't mess with the geometry of the bar nor safety features. They're simply an enhanced shoe with the Overwatch offering NP3 coating. They're worth a shot, try the Overwatch Poly DAT https://overwatchprecision.com/polymer-dat/ due to the lower price point. You can still use your old connector and springs with these triggers.

Does it work with a Gen 5 striker control device? I noticed TAU doesn't make a reduced pre-travel model for the Gen5.

[Artemas2]

As a huge fan of overwatch triggers, start here before you spend money.

P-F has some good posts by a member named "surf" you can search for, however the below segment pretty easy to get.
(If the time stamp did not work, jump to 3:37)

https://youtu.be/cBk-X54m_YA?t=217


With that out of the way I have found the TAC/DAT triggers to help in feeling a straight trigger press. If I can feel on corner of the shoe instead of both or neither than I will shank that shot.

[fwrun]

Borrow or rent a gun with a red dot, and I imagine you will be able to diagnose and correct the problem.

[JonInWA]

The NY1/minus connector was a great alternative setup for Gen 1 - Gen 3 Glocks; Gen5 and Gen5, not so much, especially with the current triggerbars that come with the Gen4/5 Glocks. I haven't personally experimented, but anecdotally installing a Gen 3 triggerbar (presumably the later one, with the increased vertical extension and dogleg ramp for the trigger spring attachment point) can provide an improved triggerpull. When going the minus connector/NY1 route with a Gen4, it provides a mushy feel, so it's not recommended. I believe that there's one Canadian LEO that reauested and was provided with Gen5s with a NY1 setup, but as of my last Armorer Class update, in Sept 2018 they were the only organization pursuing that route. Organizational NY1 use tends to be geographic in the US-very few, if any on the West Coast, a smattering in the Midwest/Center, and more (but still not a huge number) on the New England/ East Coast/South etc.

Frankly, I'm pretty satisfied with the triggerpull on my one Gen4, a G22, as it came out of the box, albeit after lubricating the triggerbar/connector interfacing surfaces with a dab of Lucas Red "N" Tacky #2 grease; it has a very nice rolling break. Te Gen5s that I've been exposed to have the best out-of-the-box triggers that I've felt in Glocks, so if/when I get a Gen5, I'll likely lubricate and otherwise leave alone.

If you're a gun sports gamer trying to wring every possible iota of performance out of a Gen4 , I can see potentially some incremental benefits to dinking around with it and/or switching components, either OEM or aftermarket (but generally, I'm VERY wary of aftermarket components other than sights and grip plugs on any of my Glocks used for defense or duty-I just don't go that route).

The "shooting to the left" issue was a real issue, and I never really got a definitive answer as to what caused it; reportedly it was more likely to crop up in a Gen4 G22 than in other Glocks. I definitely experienced it, and my solution was to drift the rear sight to the right, almost to the edge of the slide sight channel. That worked; it may rankly someone's OCD as a solution, but for me it was an acceptable one.

I could likely be very pleased with an out-of-the box Gen5, particularly with the order-able metal sight options as OEM; probably the only change I'd make would be to go with a Glock extended slide stop/release, but that's a personal preference, not an absolute operational necessity.

Best, Jon

[OlongJohnson]

I installed Meprolights on my G3 G34, measured to be centered within ~0.001" in the slide. Shot right where I meant it to. I liked the NY1/- a heck of a lot better than when I put it back to the way it came before selling it.

The only Glocks I've messed with that had aftermarket stuff in them were SoCal friends' guns. Overall, they weren't for me, but they may have been overdone. And I'm a DAO dork, so that may have been a factor.

[JBP55]

I have Zero use for any Glock with a NY1 trigger. Having worked on many dozens of Glocks I have seen a total of 2 with a NY1 trigger.

[RJ]

I have an early G19.5 for USPSA and a G26.5 for EDC.

I have an Overwatch Precision Trigger and a 5.0 lb striker spring. I can put typically 9 of 10 rounds centered on a B8 repair center at 25 yards with scores in the 80s using 147 HST or AE9DP 115 using iron sights at stock heights.

The Overwatch trigger ‘feels’ more consistent to me. And though my numeric scores improved with the Overwatch, it is possible I’m just getting better.

I’m very happy with this set up for gaming.

For carry, I use my G26.5. It is bone stock.

[GJM]

I've read through several threads on here and elsewhere about glocks shooting left. I never noticed it before, because it doesn't show up at range range. I can shoot dead center at 3 to 5 yards. And in the past, I lacked the skill to notice at distance because my groups were so large at 15 to 25 yards that it wasn't noticable.

Now that I've improved my skills, I am noticing that I can get 4" groups at 25 yards that are 10" left of the target.

Maybe it's the mechanical issue of the gun. Maybe It's the way I'm gripping the gun. Maybe it's the way I'm manipulating the trigger. Maybe it's all three. I've been working quite a bit on altering grip and trigger finger placement to no avail.

What I'd like to try is upgrading my triggers. Maybe shooting left won't be impacted by putting in nicer triggers, but regardless, I should probably consider nicer triggers. I've heard good things about Overwatch Precision and a couple others.

What I'm using now is the factory glock trigger with a NY1 trigger spring and a minus disconnect. Around 20 years ago, this is what I was told was the best trigger at the time. It was supposed to give a combined total weight of about 6 pounds (combining the 8 pounds trigger spring with the 3.5 pounds disconnect), which was the same as the factory 5.5 pound trigger but it was supposed to be less "mooshy".

I've heard people say this is stupid. Maybe it is. 20 years ago the internet was new and also there was less options for aftermarket stuff. Also, Massad Ayoob scared me into not messing with the trigger. Lately, I'm hesitant to mess with the trigger because I carry AIWB and I've heard that aftermarket triggers that reduce pretravel of the trigger may result in negating some of the safeties in the gun, which is bad for AIWB. I don't want to get into an ECQC type situation where I am kneed/kicked on my holster, or maybe just fall hard on the ground on the holster, or slammed into a car, and the holstered gun discharges because the gun isn't "drop safe" anymore due to the new trigger.

Those were my reasons in the past. I'm open to change. Should I buy an overwatch precision or other trigger? Does it include everything such as a trigger spring and disconnect or do I use the factory ones, and if so, which should I use?

I have three glocks, all of them *I* shoot left. One of them I moved the rear sight about 80% to the right and it "only" shoots about 5" left at 25 yards. I could put it all the way to the right but I feel like it's probably me at that point. The trigger may or may not help, but I think I've hit the point in skill (being about upper-beginner to intermediate-level) where I may notice improvement in shooting with a better trigger.

I think you try using more trigger finger before investing in a hardware solution. Any rear sight adjustment required with a Glock is typically minimal unless it is a software issue you are trying to fix, at which point the rear dovetail is not wide enough to fix it!

[powell556]

I think you try using more trigger finger before investing in a hardware solution. Any rear sight adjustment required with a Glock is typically minimal unless it is a software issue you are trying to fix, at which point the rear dovetail is not wide enough to fix it!

That's what I figured. And regarding trigger finger, I was trying a little less trigger finger, and a little more, but I'm going to try much more at my next range trip. I read in another post someone commenting that right handed shooters going left typically means not enough trigger finger.

It's weird because in my head. I would think too much trigger finger would push the gun left. Whereas not enough would push the gun right.

And you're spot on about the dovetail issue. That's why I figured it was a software issue because I got about 80% to the right and realized "damn, this can't be right, I'm still shooting left, am I going to crank it all the way to the edge?"

Interestingly, the front sight stays still when I dry fire. So I'm not sure if maybe I'm only doing the bad thing during live fire in response to recoil. Like pushing too much on my grip in reaction to the recoil whereas during dry fire, my brain knows there's no recoil. I've done ball and dummy drills and usually I'm okay. Sometimes I notice a bit of a flinch but most of the time it's click with a smooth and constant sight picture.

[powell556]

The NY1/minus connector was a great alternative setup for Gen 1 - Gen 3 Glocks;

If it makes a difference to getting a new Overwatch trigger, mine are all Gen 3.

[HopetonBrown]

https://youtu.be/G8JX2hZR_6g

[powell556]

https://youtu.be/G8JX2hZR_6g

Thanks for sharing that! I'm optimistic to try this later in the week at my next range trip. I'm not sure why I didn't consider that. When I heard suggestions of "try using more or less finger" I assumed that meant medium amount or very little. And a few of the squared away ROs at the range showed me how much finger they use and it was about 2/3 of the way from the tip of the first phlange.

I'm actually excited that this may be the answer. I was worried if the answer was less finger, then under stress, I'd never be able to do that. I think under stress, I'll default to more finger than less finger because I imagine I'll shove my finger in as far as it goes until it stops. Just a guess, I have no competition or real-world shooting experience.

[powell556]

Does it work with a Gen 5 striker control device? I noticed TAU doesn't make a reduced pre-travel model for the Gen5.

I should ask if it works with the Gen 3 SCD since that's what I have.

[Jay585]

I should ask if it works with the Gen 3 SCD since that's what I have.

Depends which type. There's two (both pre-Gen5): OEMM Glock & Aftermarket reduced pre-travel.

My assumption is that you'd need the latter to work with a TAC/DAC trigger.

[RAM Engineer]

You need better grip and trigger control. A new trigger won't solve your problems.

[cjb1911]

I thought the same thing as OP for a while. Try some ball and dummy drills and I guarantee you will find the issue.

[LJP]

What size are your hands? I only ask because I went down a very similar road shooting Glocks for the past ten years. I just recently switched to a different gun with much improved trigger reach and I’m shooting better and not fighting the gun. Just a thought.


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[critter]

I have standard issue small hands/short fingers. With the stock trigger and reach I had a natural tendency to push the shot low/left. I initially corrected that by applying a little pressure with my left thumb on the frame. That immediately put my shots on target. The Overwatch DAT (the polymer version) works well for me. It does feel better and I shoot better, tighter groups one-handed.

[lwt16]

I was instructing a shooter the other day who was left handed and pushing shots right. He insisted that it was the gun and not him. He stated that his other gun was more better and that he shot straight with it. So I asked him if he brought it along and he did. I told him to retrieve it and come back to the firing line....which was at the 5 yard line.

He did so and, of course, pushed his shots to the right with it as well.

At the five yard line his target was the smallest Post It note that they make.....yellow in color.....on the back of a B8 target (scoring rings and bull facing the backstop). The goal was to put each and every shot within that small Post It.

At first, most of his shots were to the right (again, a lefty).

Fifteen minutes of instruction (including use of snap caps, dry fire, and some of him aiming and me manipulating the trigger so he could see what a surprise break feels like) and he was shooting clean.

Once I learned trigger control, I have been shocked at how good a stock Glock can print at 25 yards. Fix the issues and then seek out triggers.

Regards.

PS....this shooter I was instructing was floored by how far I sink the trigger finger into the gun.

[JonInWA]

Not to discount the above recommendations to put more triggerfinger into the trigger and/or drift the rear sight to compensate, but I still think that there is something a bit wonky with the Gen4 G22s and shooting to the left; I have not encountered the issue with my similarly frame-sized Gen3 G17, with my previous Gen3 G34, with my Gen 3 G21 or Gen 3 G19s. Similarly, I've anecdotally heard of other shooters having the same issue with the same gun, and had confirmations with a credible industry source of the same.

That's not to say that finger positioning and/or sight drifting won't adequately resolve the shooting to the left tendency, but I still think there's something inherent to the gun as a causal factor.

Best, Jon

[10mmfanboy]

A glock trigger is a glock trigger, that's the way I look at it. Unless you get a trigger that defeats the internal safeties I don't think it's going to be a huge difference. Definitely not a huge enough difference to bring in your shots 10" from left.

As others have stated I'd try more trigger finger and tweak your grip. Pretty much every glock I have [ which are gen 4] have my rear sight drifted to varying degrees.

Here is the kicker though. Can anyone tell me why I shoot gen 4 20 and 29 glocks accurate as hell ? I have sights dead center, stock triggers, the grips are so huge I don't get as much trigger finger on them, yet I shoot them the most accurately. I'm actually thinking it has to do with the size of the grip. I might throw on the large backstraps on my 9mm and see what happens. It doesn't feel great in the hand, but I guess that doesn't necessarily mean that a pistol will shoot better just because it feels better in the hand.

[Chain]

I think part of the issue for those of us with shorter fingers is that we can't really give it more trigger finger without making our grip wonky. I recently brought up my concern in this thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?36235-Optimal-Uses-for-Each-Revolver-Frame-And-what-is-Purpose-of-N-Frame-Revolvers&p=873231&viewfull=1#post873231).
For years now it's just been something I've dealt with, and while I'm usually accurate enough for my needs, it still bothers me. I feel like I'm too married to the 19 at this point to consider a different gun altogether, but am open to the idea of trying a different trigger.

[JAD]

I have small hands. I shoot gen 3 and previous Glocks left. I shoot gen 4 17s and 26s very well. I shoot gen 4 19s left.

[powell556]

Thanks everyone for the replies so far. I plan to do a range trip within the next week to try more finger.

Also, more importantly, I took the NY1 and - Connector out of my Glocks. I have a trigger pull gauge and I don't remember if I ever tested my glocks. They were all about 8 pounds. I was surprised because I remember learning years ago that NY1 was 8 pounds and the - Connector would reduce the weight by 2 pounds.

Such that a stock glock was 5.5 lbs and if you put a - connector it would drop the weight to 3.5 pounds.

Well, in reality, at least according to my Lyman trigger pull gauge, I was getting 8 pounds with NY1/Minus combo. I'm getting a little over 6 pounds with stock trigger spring/connector. And I get 5.5 pounds with the stock trigger spring/Minus Connector.

Very surprised that the Minus connector is only dropping it by 1/2 pound. But, the difference in the break point is extremely noticable between stock trigger spring with and without the minus connector. On the minus, it's really easy to miss the point between slack and fire. On the standard, it's really easy to get that slack out and hold my finger on that point without accidentally breaking the trigger unless I want to.

Here's a follow up question on triggers like the Overwatch that reduce pre-travel...

Does it only impact the first shot? Because I was also taught (and I think this is controversial because I've read some trainers post that you shouldn't do this) to let the trigger go after each shot only to the reset point. If that's the case, then you don't have any pre-travel on followup shots anyway, right?

And if I'm tracking, maybe the reduced pre-travel triggers are more suited for people who don't only go to the trigger reset point, and who instead let the trigger fully release? Or at least, would be most beneficial to those shooters.

At this point, I will probably keep one of each of the 3 combinations in 3 different glocks to my range trip so I can compare in live fire in addition to dry fire. One with NY1/Minus, One with Stock Spring/Minus, and One with Stock Spring/Stock Connector. But I'll bring all of the parts and my glock armorers tool so I can swap different combos in different guns in case it turns out there is another difference that's gun-specific.

[OlongJohnson]

8 lb for a DA trigger press is not unreasonable. I found the NY1/- combo easier to shoot than the standard spring and - connector in my G3 G34. It was more like a normal DA than the caulking gun extrusion then a wall.

[fwrun]

...Can anyone tell me why I shoot gen 4 20 and 29 glocks accurate as hell ? I have sights dead center, stock triggers, the grips are so huge I don't get as much trigger finger on them, yet I shoot them the most accurately. I'm actually thinking it has to do with the size of the grip...

I shoot my G21 more accurately with less effort than I do 17’s and 19’s. I attribute it to a more natural alignment between the trigger and my longish fingers. Just throwing a back strap on doesn’t completely fix this, though. There is a big difference in frame width.

[JonInWA]

Thanks everyone for the replies so far. I plan to do a range trip within the next week to try more finger.

Also, more importantly, I took the NY1 and - Connector out of my Glocks. I have a trigger pull gauge and I don't remember if I ever tested my glocks. They were all about 8 pounds. I was surprised because I remember learning years ago that NY1 was 8 pounds and the - Connector would reduce the weight by 2 pounds.

Such that a stock glock was 5.5 lbs and if you put a - connector it would drop the weight to 3.5 pounds.

Well, in reality, at least according to my Lyman trigger pull gauge, I was getting 8 pounds with NY1/Minus combo. I'm getting a little over 6 pounds with stock trigger spring/connector. And I get 5.5 pounds with the stock trigger spring/Minus Connector.

Very surprised that the Minus connector is only dropping it by 1/2 pound. But, the difference in the break point is extremely noticable between stock trigger spring with and without the minus connector. On the minus, it's really easy to miss the point between slack and fire. On the standard, it's really easy to get that slack out and hold my finger on that point without accidentally breaking the trigger unless I want to.

Here's a follow up question on triggers like the Overwatch that reduce pre-travel...

Does it only impact the first shot? Because I was also taught (and I think this is controversial because I've read some trainers post that you shouldn't do this) to let the trigger go after each shot only to the reset point. If that's the case, then you don't have any pre-travel on followup shots anyway, right?

And if I'm tracking, maybe the reduced pre-travel triggers are more suited for people who don't only go to the trigger reset point, and who instead let the trigger fully release? Or at least, would be most beneficial to those shooters.

At this point, I will probably keep one of each of the 3 combinations in 3 different glocks to my range trip so I can compare in live fire in addition to dry fire. One with NY1/Minus, One with Stock Spring/Minus, and One with Stock Spring/Stock Connector. But I'll bring all of the parts and my glock armorers tool so I can swap different combos in different guns in case it turns out there is another difference that's gun-specific.

In real life, even with mass-produced components, there can be variations between specified and actual trigger pull weights with the various connector, triggerbar and trigger spring components on individual Glocks. With each of my Glocks, I empirically analyze them, and tune with Glock component swaps as necessary.

Best, Jon

[matt7184]

I shoot my G21 more accurately with less effort than I do 17’s and 19’s. I attribute it to a more natural alignment between the trigger and my longish fingers. Just throwing a back strap on doesn’t completely fix this, though. There is a big difference in frame width.

I've had the same issues over the years. The Glock Large Frames seem big, but the actual width of the frames work for me. I've been tempted to try out a Gen 4 G20 w/ a .40 Conversion Barrel (or just trying it out with the factory barrel) lately.

[TheNewbie]

My solution to Glock trigger was to go back to Gen 3 and put a NY1 trigger in it. Yea I am that odd guy. :p

[10mmfanboy]

I've had the same issues over the years. The Glock Large Frames seem big, but the actual width of the frames work for me. I've been tempted to try out a Gen 4 G20 w/ a .40 Conversion Barrel (or just trying it out with the factory barrel) lately.

I have longish skinny fingers, but I wouldn't say my hands are big at all. The width of the frame makes sense though, because on 9mm glocks my trigger finger feels a little cramped up by the time I break the shot.

You definitely don't need to waste your money on a 40 cal conversion barrel. I shoot 40 out of my gen 4 20 and 29 all the time with stock RSA. I usually have 6" 10mm lonewolf barrels in them though, but that shouldn't make a difference.

[alex]

I've tried Overwatch, Apex, and Agency triggers. Of those, the Overwatch and Apex are great. The Agency alters the trigger bar geometry by shaving bits and pieces off in order to reduce pre-travel. I'm sure they're great but I don't trust it. It looks cool though.

I've messed with aftermarket connectors from different brands but always end up going back to OEM minus connectors. Aftermarket connectors just "feel" poorly made compared to the OEM offering. I'm sure they're fine though.

I actually like the stock trigger. I purchased an Overwatch Falx for my gen 5 and immediately put my stock trigger back in. The Falx was great but stock just feels right, to me.

[Sigfan26]

But the reality is, to the best of my knowledge (and maybe I'm wrong), no one makes an aftermarket trigger bar so the OEM part is the only thing that any of them can use.

A couple have tried, but the end result is generally a $50 trigger bar that doesn’t provide an advantage over the OEM.


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[Darth_Uno]

I’ve played that game, and got nothing but FTF’s (both feed and fire) and double taps to show for it. But only when I dick around with recoil and striker springs.

I do like the Suarez flat trigger. Current iteration is the Face Shooter (I didn’t name it). Works great with a minus connector and keeps some of the factory reset/takeup. There’s been a few versions of the Suarez trigger. Current one is gtg.

Personally I don’t see a difference between the Glock factory serrated or smooth, but I do prefer a flat trigger. Doesn’t make you better by itself, just my preference.

[Mark D]

I’ve played that game, and got nothing but FTF’s (both feed and fire) and double taps to show for it. But only when I dick around with recoil and striker springs.

I do like the Suarez flat trigger. Current iteration is the Face Shooter (I didn’t name it). Works great with a minus connector and keeps some of the factory reset/takeup. There’s been a few versions of the Suarez trigger. Current one is gtg.

Personally I don’t see a difference between the Glock factory serrated or smooth, but I do prefer a flat trigger. Doesn’t make you better by itself, just my preference.

After a year or two shooting a HK P2000, I recently dusted off a G19 and did some dryfire. I noticed I couldn't get much finger on the trigger, compared to my HKs. I see the Suarez "Face Shooter trigger" advertises a .25" inch reduction in length of pull, but uses an OEM trigger bar and retains Glock OEM internal geometry.

Despite the horrible name, and Suarez's general unpleasantness, I'm thinking about trying the face shooter (cringe) trigger. Are you still happy with yours? Any complaints or observations?

[Darth_Uno]

After a year or two shooting a HK P2000, I recently dusted off a G19 and did some dryfire. I noticed I couldn't get much finger on the trigger, compared to my HKs. I see the Suarez "Face Shooter trigger" advertises a .25" inch reduction in length of pull, but uses an OEM trigger bar and retains Glock OEM internal geometry.

Despite the horrible name, and Suarez's general unpleasantness, I'm thinking about trying the face shooter (cringe) trigger. Are you still happy with yours? Any complaints or observations?

Wow, necrothread. To answer your questions, the Suarez triggers I had and have passed all safety checks, including engagement when viewed with an armorer’s plate. Short but safe reset, and all else being equal I’d prefer a flat vs curved trigger.

But despite what I may have said in previous threads, all my current Glocks have smooth SP00357 triggers except for two which still have Suarez. No particular reason for that other than keeping them all (mostly) stock for various reasons.

[Mark D]

Wow, necrothread. To answer your questions, the Suarez triggers I had and have passed all safety checks, including engagement when viewed with an armorer’s plate. Short but safe reset, and all else being equal I’d prefer a flat vs curved trigger.

But despite what I may have said in previous threads, all my current Glocks have smooth SP00357 triggers except for two which still have Suarez. No particular reason for that other than keeping them all (mostly) stock for various reasons.

Thanks, good to know.

And for anyone else stumbling on this thread, the Suarez trigger I referenced does not "reduce length of pull" as I misstated in my previous post. According to Suarez, it "reduces trigger reach by 0.25", making it an ideal option for smaller handed shooters". It doesn't appear to change the length of the actual trigger press, it just positions the trigger closer to the the backstrap.

[TCinVA]

After a year or two shooting a HK P2000, I recently dusted off a G19 and did some dryfire. I noticed I couldn't get much finger on the trigger, compared to my HKs. I see the Suarez "Face Shooter trigger" advertises a .25" inch reduction in length of pull, but uses an OEM trigger bar and retains Glock OEM internal geometry.


"advertises"

Personally, I'm really picky about putting aftermarket triggers in Glocks.

Injection molded polymer is a great way to crank out a lot of parts fast and cheap. But there is an art an science to getting it exactly right. Mold status (because they do wear out), consistency of materials, environmental factors...all play a role in getting a polymer product that comes out of the mold the way you want it to.

Run to run, injection molded polymer products can have slight variations in dimensions. These slight variations can result in variations in the way parts fit together and act together. Glock knows what these variations are.

Various trigger companies, on the other hand, don't. And so when they monkey around with fire control parts by sort of reverse engineering them around specific specimens you can end up with parts that don't work as intended...assuming, of course, they were intelligently designed in the first place. Which is sometimes a stretch. (Haley's "Skimmer" trigger debacle as an example)

The only company I'm willing to buy aftermarket trigger parts from is Apex, and that only because I've carefully observed Apex's work for the better part of a decade. They have been in business for a long time doing quality work on S&W revolvers and evolved from that to doing a lot of quality work on M&P's (where they understood the proper fix for M&P accuracy issues before most at S&W gave a damn) and expanded from that to building some parts for Glocks.

I'm confident that the trigger safety on the Apex triggers in my Glocks will work as intended should the gun be dropped. Unlike the trigger safety on another manufacturer's trigger when an acquaintance of mine's wife unknowingly dropped a bag with his holstered pistol in it, touching off a round that missed her head by inches.

I also don't want something named a "face shooter trigger" in a gun I'm carrying in the US. That isn't my primary concern, but given the legal environments that are rapidly developing across the nation I really wouldn't want a prosecutor or plaintiff's attorney holding up my gun with the "face shooter trigger" in it in front of a jury. That's just a bad idea.

So, as to Glocks and leftism in general, my 2 cents:


Glocks and other striker fired guns do tend to push left for many people. While citations about the fundamentals of trigger control are valid, the fact remains that the way your hand interacts with the gun also has a role.

Look at double action revolvers: Originally the intention was that they be fired single action except in dire emergency. (Which is kind of the definition of a gunfight, but whatevs) Their grip was designed for that single action shooting. Those pioneers who started using the guns double action quickly came to the conclusion that if you wanted to run a DA revolver properly you needed to fill that sinus in the grip to lower your hand so you could address the trigger straight on. Attempting to run the DA revolver with the sinus unfilled led to pulling the revolver off-target because your finger typically came on to the trigger at a downward angle. Meaning when you press the trigger you are pulling up and to the side.

61691

Well, if you take a look at how a lot of people get on the trigger of a Glock, you will notice that a significant number of them end up with a trigger finger that's pretty damn diagonal. I'll start with this excellent photograph of my hands on a Glock at speed during a shootoff at the Tactical Conference:

61689

Look at the angle of my trigger finger. To quote the late, great Todd Green: I have a "freakishly high" grip. As a result, when I grip a Glock like I would any other handgun my trigger finger is doing a solid impression of what you'd get if you were on a DA revolver with the old style stocks on them. Compare my trigger finger angle to that of this individual shooting a G34:

61692

Note how his physiology brings him lower on the gun, meaning his trigger finger is not at an absurdly diagonal angle to the trigger. Because his grip is "lower" on the gun, he's able to get straighter on the trigger which likely means he has a lot less problem with his trigger pull dragging the gun off target to the left.

Now let's take a look at this shooter on a Beretta 92 compared to another shooter on a P320:

61690 61693

Note how the lower bore axis of the Beretta, a feature people blather about to a ridiculous degree, brings his hand lower on the gun...meaning he is able to get on the trigger really, really straight. Which means for his double action or single action press he's pressing the trigger in as straight a line as possible on a non-1911 semi-auto. Note that the 320 shooter is still coming on to the trigger at an angle...so it's more than just bore axis. The shape of the grip and the exact measurements of your hand play a role.

The relation of your hand to the trigger makes a significant difference in your results with a pistol. In the revolver days this was understood: It was extremely common for police officers issued revolvers to have custom made stocks specifically for their hands to allow them to get the right grip at speed and just start pressing the trigger. They got the best results with grips that fit their hand. That's been lost in the era of the semi-auto. We don't have truly adjustable grips on most pistols and so that element of shooting a handgun well has essentially been lost to institutional amnesia. But physics is still physics, and physiology is still physiology.

A number of folks who shoot double stack Glocks just fine have picked up single stack Glocks only to find they shoot left with them by a significant margin...and it's for the same reasons. The smaller grip magnifies the problem for a good many of them.

There are other considerations, too.

The Glock has a prominent corner just above the trigger guard. If your finger makes contact with this point on the frame, as your trigger finger presses to the rear it has a tendency to push the gun off center.

The overtravel of a typical Glock trigger also contributes. Overtravel is movement of the trigger after the firing mechanism has been released. When the striker breaks on a typical Glock the trigger will continue to move rearwards, which means that if your trigger finger is at a sub-optimal angle, you are probably driving the gun off center as the firing process is happening. If you are making contact with that corner of the frame just above the trigger, the results are magnified further. The vast majority of this leftward push in most people's shooting is happening during the overtravel of the trigger in that golden couple of miliseconds after the striker has released but before the bullet is out of the barrel. And because it's happening in that tiny window it is usually invisible to the shooter. They can't see it happening before recoil so they have no idea how it is happening. They just put the sights on the target, press the trigger, and the bullet hole ends up left of where they intended.

I use Apex triggers in my Glocks because they reduce the overtravel in the trigger, helping ameliorate this phenomenon. Some overtravel is probably necessary for a Glock...and most other striker guns...to function reliably. So it can never be completely eliminated, but reducing it seems to reduce the margin of error for me.

The flat face of some aftermarket triggers can further reduce the problem, but for some people it can make the problem even worse. It just depends on the blend of factors at work for your specific situation.

So, given all of that what's my advice?

Exercising good trigger control is always a good idea. But good trigger control won't eliminate this problem. I've shot a number of very pretty groups at extended distance that were inches to the left of where I intended them to be. Not because my trigger control sucked, but because every time I pressed the trigger in that golden moment when the striker has released but the bullet hasn't left the barrel, the interface between my hand and the gun drives the muzzle to the left.

Changing your grip is one approach to correcting that. Putting a lot more trigger finger in the trigger guard, or using as little trigger finger as possible can both help to ameliorate the issue depending on your physiology. My problem with that approach is simply that while one can remember to do these things without significant stressors, can I guarantee you are going to get that altered grip and/or trigger finger placement from the holster when you are working against a timer or a threat? For me, the answer has been "no". And while I'm not going to claim to be the world's best pistolero, I have spent 20 years training rigorously with a handgun. I fired more than 20,000 rounds in the last calendar year working with the Glock...and I could not reliably produce those alterations under stress.

So...what does one do?

For now, I drifted my sights to compensate. The phenomenon was consistent enough for me that I moved my sights to get the point of impact where I want it. The only time I don't have the lefty push is when I'm shooting 25 yard bullseye at a very relaxed pace. In such circumstances I seem to be able to get on the trigger better enough to reduce the leftism to almost nothing. So if that happens and I don't account for it in my sights, I put a group on the right side of the B8 instead of in the center. When I've taken shots at squirrels at distance, I offset slightly to make the hit. On a timer working on a drill like the B8 Bonanza, I'm definitely getting leftism when I'm shooting at the 10 second pace. So no compensation needed there.

What I really need is the Glock equivalent to the Tyler T-Grip. Something that drives my hand lower on the gun so I can get on the trigger straighter. Such a thing doesn't exist yet. There are different back panels and beavertails, but they don't actually achieve the goal of changing my grip on the gun. In the first picture you see, I have one of the Glock grip panels with a beavertail on it on the gun. It's invisible because of my hand size and how high my hands get on the gun. Something that would be like the T-Grip on the back of the gun to lower my hand on it and force a more straight angle of my trigger finger would help immensely.

YMMV, offer void where prohibited or taxed, yadda yadda.

[momano]

Drifting my sights is my solution as well. I have the lefty push with Glocks, but not with my CZ P-07. YMMV.

[pew_pew]

I used to shoot left with Glocks. Then I learned how to grip a gun properly and it all went away. Glocks don’t make you shoot left. That whole thing above about trigger finger angle sounds like nonsense to me with all due respect. Take a class with a good trainer and once you learn what a good grip feels like it all makes sense.

As far as triggers, I put a 5lb striker spring in along with a reduced power plunger spring and that’s it. That gets me a nice trigger. Sometimes a minus connector but depends on the gun and Gen.

[JBP55]

I used to shoot left with Glocks. Then I learned how to grip a gun properly and it all went away. Glocks don’t make you shoot left. That whole thing above about trigger finger angle sounds like nonsense to me with all due respect. Take a class with a good trainer and once you learn what a good grip feels like it all makes sense.

As far as triggers, I put a 5lb striker spring in along with a reduced power plunger spring and that’s it. That gets me a nice trigger. Sometimes a minus connector but depends on the gun and Gen.

My trigger finger does not properly reach the trigger with a proper grip. My right hand is twisted to the right of center on the grip when shooting a Glock.
A Trainer can not enlarge my hands or lengthen my fingers.

[pew_pew]

My trigger finger does not properly reach the trigger with a proper grip. My right hand is twisted to the right of center on the grip when shooting a Glock.
A Trainer can not enlarge my hands or lengthen my fingers.

Ahh ok. Even with Gen 4s and 5s?

You could get like a Jonny Glock trigger. With the reduced pre-travel it shortens the trigger reach and allows you to get more finger on the trigger. He talks about this in a video somewhere and says it’s the reason why he reduces it and sets it with a screw.

[tlong17]

I’m fairly certain TCinVA has taken more than one class with more than one good trainer.

I like the cutout Ben makes on his Duty Series Glocks to help with the finger bumping the frame during trigger pull.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CA1GX_XDFFl/

[TCinVA]

Take a class with a good trainer

Yeah. Some day I'll have to get around to doing that.

[GearFondler]

Yeah. Some day I'll have to get around to doing that.Glad I wasn't drinking when I read that.

[jlw]

I used to shoot left with Glocks. Then I learned how to grip a gun properly and it all went away. Glocks don’t make you shoot left. That whole thing above about trigger finger angle sounds like nonsense to me with all due respect. Take a class with a good trainer and once you learn what a good grip feels like it all makes sense.

As far as triggers, I put a 5lb striker spring in along with a reduced power plunger spring and that’s it. That gets me a nice trigger. Sometimes a minus connector but depends on the gun and Gen.


Yeah. Some day I'll have to get around to doing that.

Please. Please can we have a training resume throw down? Please?

[Colt191145lover]

61966

[JAD]

Ahh ok. Even with Gen 4s and 5s?

You could get like a Jonny Glock trigger. With the reduced pre-travel it shortens the trigger reach and allows you to get more finger on the trigger. He talks about this in a video somewhere and says it’s the reason why he reduces it and sets it with a screw.

Pre travel is what makes a glock safe. Less travel is less safe.

Some people’s hands don’t work with some guns. There are smaller guns out there.

[GearFondler]

Pre travel is what makes a glock safe. Less travel is less safe.

Some people’s hands don’t work with some guns. There are smaller guns out there.I've watched some of the Johnny Glock vids and I truly believe he knows his way around a Glock and how to eek out every possible edge while retaining the passive safeties. That said, no fucking way would I carry a trigger modified to that degree... For the range, sure. For carry, no thank you. If I require a 1911 trigger I'll carry a 1911... It has a manual safety for a reason.

[JBP55]

Ahh ok. Even with Gen 4s and 5s?

You could get like a Jonny Glock trigger. With the reduced pre-travel it shortens the trigger reach and allows you to get more finger on the trigger. He talks about this in a video somewhere and says it’s the reason why he reduces it and sets it with a screw.

I have owned all the Gen 5 Glocks and have tried Johnny Glocks, Vanek and several others.
My hand works fine on smaller pistols like a P365, P365 XL, G43, G43X, G48, Etc. but pushes against the frame on most full size pistols with my trigger finger hard against the right side of the frame.

[JAD]

I have owned all the Gen 5 Glocks and have tried Johnny Glocks, Vanek and several others.
My hand works fine on smaller pistols like a P365, P365 XL, G43, G43X, G48, Etc. but pushes against the frame on most full size pistols with my trigger finger hard against the right side of the frame.

The struggle is real. Avoid 1911s, they work really well with a pair of slim grips and a short trigger and then suddenly you have a second mortgage.

[JBP55]

The struggle is real. Avoid 1911s, they work really well with a pair of slim grips and a short trigger and then suddenly you have a second mortgage.

I will stay with the striker fired pistols.

[TOTS]

The struggle is real. Avoid 1911s, they work really well with a pair of slim grips and a short trigger and then suddenly you have a second mortgage.

Very real. I’m trying to learn to speak Glock to see if a red dot is for me. I caught my brain trying to convince me that buying a CCO and dotting it up would be cheaper in the long run than the cost of the ammo to learn to stop shooting Glocks left!!!

I’m like, “Almost got me, brain!” Then I went back to debating DW Vigil or Colt CCO........

[Tokarev]

Maybe try this:


https://youtu.be/dsdiP-M5O8g

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

[vcdgrips]

PP
(the onomatopoeia of your name is quite rich but I digress...)

Maybe he has taken a class of two.

Maybe you are simply wrong when you say- “Take a class with a good trainer and once you learn what a good grip feels like it all makes sense.”

Maybe reasonable minds/shooters can differ.

I second the motion for a training resume throwdown.